NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.

When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ‹ I know that water
boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
candy.

How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
baking temp have to be for baking bread?

My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
time isn't changed?

I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf with
my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.

Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com; pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
> NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
> follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>
> When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first < I know that water
> boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
> off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
> candy.
>
> How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
> baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>
> My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
> this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
> if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
> Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
> time isn't changed?
>
> I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
> underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf with
> my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
>
> Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.
> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> http://www.jamlady.eboard.com; pics of my no-knead bread posted
> Laissez les bons temps rouler!
>
>
I use two cheap oven thermometers side by side, a Taylor, and a Temp-Rite,
and they measure exactly the same. I've done this a number of times with
different thermometers and find them to be quite accurate. In our oven they
are always 25 degrees higher than the built in oven gauge[325 oven = 350
thermometers].

Kent

In article >,
"Kent" > wrote:

> I use two cheap oven thermometers side by side, a Taylor, and a Temp-Rite,
> and they measure exactly the same. I've done this a number of times with
> different thermometers and find them to be quite accurate. In our oven they
> are always 25 degrees higher than the built in oven gauge[325 oven = 350
> thermometers].
>
> Kent

Thanks, Kent.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
> follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>
> When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ‹ I know that water
> boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
> off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
> candy.
>
> How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
> baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>
> My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
> this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
> if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
> Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
> time isn't changed?
Most oven knobs have a calibrating screw under the knob. If you know of
someone who has a contact thermometer, ie laser type (I got mine at
Harbor Freight for about $30 but I use it to check heat/cool leakage
from windows and doors)then borrow it and check. I did the gas oven we
installed last year and it was about 6 degrees low, adjusted the screw,
waited five minutes, checked again and it was spot on according to the
laser thermometer.

To be very honest, I don't see that much difference in the baked goods
that come out of the oven. Probably would see a difference at 10-20
degrees though.

>
> I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
> underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf with
> my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
>
> Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.

Could be any number of factors involved with the titch underdone. Pan
used, glass or metal, position on the oven rack, etc. Let us know when
and if you find out. IMWTK here also.

George Shirley wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>> NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
>> follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>>
>> When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ‹ I know that
>> water boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy
>> (December) it was off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is
>> important when making candy.
>> How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
>> baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>> My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
>> this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I
>> know if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know
>> about. Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome
>> if baking time isn't changed?
> Most oven knobs have a calibrating screw under the knob.

My electronic oven controls have software calibration available through
the control panel. It has +/- 35 counts (which I've discovered are not
degrees of anything). I have calibrated both ovens to be 350 +/- 5 using
that interface and a digital thermometer.

I don't bake very much, but I would expect that accurate temperatures
are more important in baking pastries than potatoes.

Matthew

--
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of
people". Alexander Bullock ("My Man Godfrey" 1936):

In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
> > follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
> >
> > When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first Ð I know that water
> > boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
> > off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
> > candy.
> >
> > How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
> > baking temp have to be for baking bread?

> Most oven knobs have a calibrating screw under the knob.
> To be very honest, I don't see that much difference in the baked goods
> that come out of the oven. Probably would see a difference at 10-20
> degrees though.
>
> >
> > I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
> > underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf with
> > my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
> >
> > Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.
>
> Could be any number of factors involved with the titch underdone. Pan
> used, glass or metal, position on the oven rack, etc. Let us know when
> and if you find out. IMWTK here also.

Hiya, Jorge. I ain't got no steenkin' knob to tweak. :-) No pan.
Oven racks set per instructions in recipe. Stone preheated for 20
minutes. GE Smooth Top, touch pads for everything but the burners.
Send Miz Anne up with the laser gizmo. On second thought, send her
without it; I'll have something figured out by then.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

:Hiya, Jorge. I ain't got no steenkin' knob to tweak. :-) No pan.
:Oven racks set per instructions in recipe. Stone preheated for 20
:minutes. GE Smooth Top, touch pads for everything but the burners.

That may not be a long enough pre=heat. If the stone isn't at
temperature before you start baking, it'll continue to absorb heat.
That will change baking behavior. Use a laser gizmo to check it...

--
sig 101

In article >,
David Scheidt > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
> :Hiya, Jorge. I ain't got no steenkin' knob to tweak. :-) No pan.
> :Oven racks set per instructions in recipe. Stone preheated for 20
> :minutes. GE Smooth Top, touch pads for everything but the burners.
>
> That may not be a long enough pre=heat. If the stone isn't at
> temperature before you start baking, it'll continue to absorb heat.
> That will change baking behavior. Use a laser gizmo to check it...

Hmm. My instructions say to preheat for 20 minutes. I've not any other
problems with other baking. I don't think I'll buy a laser gizmo.
Thanks, though. :-/

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:33:17 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
>follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>
>When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ‹ I know that water
>boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
>off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
>candy.
>
>How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
>baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>
>My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
>this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
>if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
>Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
>time isn't changed?
>
>I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
>underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf with
>my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
>
>Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.


Hi Barb,

Unless I am missing something here...

Boil up some water, and measure its temperature with the new
thermometer. That will tell you if it is properly calibrated
just as it did for the candy thermometer.

Beyond that, it is close to a certainty that you oven can be
calibrated once you know its actual temperature.

Different home ovens do the deed in different ways, but most
have some sort of adjustment that allows one to rotate the
position of the oven temp knob without actually turning the
shaft. So, if, for example, your new thermometer tells you
that the oven is at 400 degrees, you would turn the knob
(but not the shaft) so that it displays 400 degrees.

And finally, the amount of error you describe could well
account for the color issues with your bread.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
> follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>
> When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ‹ I know that water
> boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
> off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
> candy.
>
> How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
> baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>
> My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
> this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
> if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
> Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
> time isn't changed?
>
> I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
> underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf with
> my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
>
> Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.

Barb,

Bread is done when it's done. The internal temp of the bread is more
important than the "exact" oven temp (scare quotes explained in a
minute). A quick-read thermometer (either digital or dial) is easily
calibrated at 212, so you can get an accurate read of your bread temp
(usually aiming for something around 200 F, but it varies a bit for
different types of bread).

Once you've done that, you'll be able, by observation, to judge doneness
in the future (by color, feel, sound). The traditional instruction to
thump the loaf on the bottom and listen for a hollow sound becomes
meaningful once you've calibrated the sound of the thump to the temp.
Similarly, you can calibrate the feel of the crust (firmness to pressure
at the top and side of the loaf) to that same temp.

Now, getting back to the oven temp...

The Taylor thermometer is _probably_ more accurate than your oven
thermostat. But asking for it to be closer than 15 degrees is asking for
a lot. The set point for most oven thermostats is such that the oven
drops 25 degrees from the set temp before the burner kicks on again. You
can make your 15 degree adjustment (by calibrating the oven control
knob) if you want to, but for that small a difference, I wouldn't.

What's more important to understand is the difference between solid heat
and flash heat. The reason for a long preheat time and the reason for
using a thermal mass like a baking stone or tiles is that you want solid
heat. This means that the walls and other thermal mass are adiabatic at
the set temperature. When you open the oven door to load, check, or
unload the bread, you are letting in a massive amount of cold air.
However, the walls and stone will not cool off quickly; instead, they
continue to radiate heat toward the bread (through the cooled air) and
quickly reheat the air in the oven.

Flash heat is what you get from the burner warming the air in the oven.
This gives you convection, but until the warm air heats up the walls and
stone, all it does is blow hot air at the bread. This can give you a
good crust but an undercooked crumb.

The other major factor is the development of the dough. If you do not
have well-developed gluten and a properly proofed loaf, you can end up
with a soggy layer near the bottom of the bread no matter what your oven
temp is. I have the feeling this is not your problem, but it is one that
affects a lot of beginners, so I'm mentioning it for their benefit.

HTH,

Dick

Dick Margulis wrote:
snip
> What's more important to understand is the difference between solid heat
> and flash heat. The reason for a long preheat time and the reason for
> using a thermal mass like a baking stone or tiles is that you want solid
> heat. This means that the walls and other thermal mass are adiabatic at
> the set temperature. When you open the oven door to load, check, or
> unload the bread, you are letting in a massive amount of cold air.
> However, the walls and stone will not cool off quickly; instead, they
> continue to radiate heat toward the bread (through the cooled air) and
> quickly reheat the air in the oven.
>
snip
>
> Dick
>

It has been a pretty long time since I took Thermodynamics, but I am
pretty sure "adiabatic" is not the correct term. Perhaps Isothermal?

Adiabatic refers to a change in the system with no change in energy but
often a change in temperature, as in the rapid compression of air such
as in a diesel engine.

At least that is the way I remember it.

del

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:33:17 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
>follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>
>When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ‹ I know that water
>boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
>off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
>candy.
>
>How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
>baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>
>My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
>this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
>if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
>Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
>time isn't changed?
>
>I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
>underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf with
>my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
>
>Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.


Hi Barb,

Unless I am missing something here...

Boil up some water, and measure its temperature with the new
thermometer. That will tell you if it is properly calibrated
just as it did for the candy thermometer.

Beyond that, it is close to a certainty that you oven can be
calibrated once you know its actual temperature.

Different home ovens do the deed in different ways, but most
have some sort of adjustment that allows one to rotate the
position of the oven temp knob without actually turning the
shaft. So, if, for example, your new thermometer tells you
that the oven is at 400 degrees, you would turn the knob
(but not the shaft) so that it displays 400 degrees.

And finally, the amount of error you describe could well
account for the color issues with your bread.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

In article >,
Kenneth > wrote:
(snip)
> Hi Barb,
>
> Unless I am missing something here...
>
> Boil up some water, and measure its temperature with the new
> thermometer. That will tell you if it is properly calibrated
> just as it did for the candy thermometer.
>
> Beyond that, it is close to a certainty that you oven can be
> calibrated once you know its actual temperature.
>
> Different home ovens do the deed in different ways, but most
> have some sort of adjustment that allows one to rotate the
> position of the oven temp knob without actually turning the
> shaft. So, if, for example, your new thermometer tells you
> that the oven is at 400 degrees, you would turn the knob
> (but not the shaft) so that it displays 400 degrees.
>
> And finally, the amount of error you describe could well
> account for the color issues with your bread.
>
> All the best,


Hmmm, I didn't think about boiling my thermometer ‹ it's not a mercury
bar scale. Here's a link: http://preview.tinyurl.com/35vkks. Pardon
my dullness but how would I measure the temp of boiling water with this
thermometer?

I'll have to read up on how I can adjust my digitally set and read oven
temp setter. I have no oven temp knob. I'm thinking that if I have
to go to that, I'll just make a mental adjustment about the correction
instead. :-)

Thanks, Kenneth.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:23:55 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Kenneth > wrote:
>(snip)
>> Hi Barb,
>>
>> Unless I am missing something here...
>>
>> Boil up some water, and measure its temperature with the new
>> thermometer. That will tell you if it is properly calibrated
>> just as it did for the candy thermometer.
>>
>> Beyond that, it is close to a certainty that you oven can be
>> calibrated once you know its actual temperature.
>>
>> Different home ovens do the deed in different ways, but most
>> have some sort of adjustment that allows one to rotate the
>> position of the oven temp knob without actually turning the
>> shaft. So, if, for example, your new thermometer tells you
>> that the oven is at 400 degrees, you would turn the knob
>> (but not the shaft) so that it displays 400 degrees.
>>
>> And finally, the amount of error you describe could well
>> account for the color issues with your bread.
>>
>> All the best,
>
>
>Hmmm, I didn't think about boiling my thermometer ‹ it's not a mercury
>bar scale. Here's a link: http://preview.tinyurl.com/35vkks. Pardon
>my dullness but how would I measure the temp of boiling water with this
>thermometer?
>
>I'll have to read up on how I can adjust my digitally set and read oven
>temp setter. I have no oven temp knob. I'm thinking that if I have
>to go to that, I'll just make a mental adjustment about the correction
>instead. :-)
>
>Thanks, Kenneth.

Hi again Barb,

The thermometer you have has a bi-metallic strip coiled
inside.

You could throw the whole thing into a pot of boiling water
in my opinion. I really don't think it would hurt it at all.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

In article >,
Kenneth > wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:23:55 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Kenneth > wrote:
> >(snip)
> >> Hi Barb,
> >>
> >> Unless I am missing something here...
> >>
> >> Boil up some water, and measure its temperature with the new
> >> thermometer. That will tell you if it is properly calibrated
> >> just as it did for the candy thermometer.
> >>
> >> Beyond that, it is close to a certainty that you oven can be
> >> calibrated once you know its actual temperature.
> >>
> >> Different home ovens do the deed in different ways, but most
> >> have some sort of adjustment that allows one to rotate the
> >> position of the oven temp knob without actually turning the
> >> shaft. So, if, for example, your new thermometer tells you
> >> that the oven is at 400 degrees, you would turn the knob
> >> (but not the shaft) so that it displays 400 degrees.
> >>
> >> And finally, the amount of error you describe could well
> >> account for the color issues with your bread.
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >
> >
> >Hmmm, I didn't think about boiling my thermometer ‹ it's not a mercury
> >bar scale. Here's a link: http://preview.tinyurl.com/35vkks. Pardon
> >my dullness but how would I measure the temp of boiling water with this
> >thermometer?
> >
> >I'll have to read up on how I can adjust my digitally set and read oven
> >temp setter. I have no oven temp knob. I'm thinking that if I have
> >to go to that, I'll just make a mental adjustment about the correction
> >instead. :-)
> >
> >Thanks, Kenneth.
>
> Hi again Barb,
>
> The thermometer you have has a bi-metallic strip coiled
> inside.
>
> You could throw the whole thing into a pot of boiling water
> in my opinion. I really don't think it would hurt it at all.
>
> All the best,


All righty, then! Thanks. I'll screw up my courage and give it a go
tomorrow ‹ after I bake the next loaf with the oven set at 465. :-)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

In article >,
Kenneth > wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:23:55 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Kenneth > wrote:
> >(snip)
> >> Hi Barb,
> >>
> >> Unless I am missing something here...
> >>
> >> Boil up some water, and measure its temperature with the new
> >> thermometer. That will tell you if it is properly calibrated
> >> just as it did for the candy thermometer.
> >>
> >> Beyond that, it is close to a certainty that you oven can be
> >> calibrated once you know its actual temperature.
> >>
> >> Different home ovens do the deed in different ways, but most
> >> have some sort of adjustment that allows one to rotate the
> >> position of the oven temp knob without actually turning the
> >> shaft. So, if, for example, your new thermometer tells you
> >> that the oven is at 400 degrees, you would turn the knob
> >> (but not the shaft) so that it displays 400 degrees.
> >>
> >> And finally, the amount of error you describe could well
> >> account for the color issues with your bread.
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >
> >
> >Hmmm, I didn't think about boiling my thermometer ‹ it's not a mercury
> >bar scale. Here's a link: http://preview.tinyurl.com/35vkks. Pardon
> >my dullness but how would I measure the temp of boiling water with this
> >thermometer?
> >
> >I'll have to read up on how I can adjust my digitally set and read oven
> >temp setter. I have no oven temp knob. I'm thinking that if I have
> >to go to that, I'll just make a mental adjustment about the correction
> >instead. :-)
> >
> >Thanks, Kenneth.
>
> Hi again Barb,
>
> The thermometer you have has a bi-metallic strip coiled
> inside.
>
> You could throw the whole thing into a pot of boiling water
> in my opinion. I really don't think it would hurt it at all.
>
> All the best,

OK, Kenneth. I've cooked my thermometer and my oven is off my about 15
degrees. :-) I did the thermometer thang before baking; a bit of water
got inside, and a fair amount of condensation, but I'm hoping it will
dry out in the oven when I bake my loaf in about an hour or so.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:45:57 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>OK, Kenneth. I've cooked my thermometer and my oven is off my about 15
>degrees. :-) I did the thermometer thang before baking; a bit of water
>got inside, and a fair amount of condensation, but I'm hoping it will
>dry out in the oven when I bake my loaf in about an hour or so.
>
>--

Hi Barb,

The thermometer will dry out in the oven...

And, I suspect that the 15 degree error is the cause of the
pale bread color.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

:I'll have to read up on how I can adjust my digitally set and read oven
:temp setter. I have no oven temp knob. I'm thinking that if I have
:to go to that, I'll just make a mental adjustment about the correction
:instead. :-)

If you've still got the manual, it's likely in there. If you don't
have manual, you migth be to get a copy on GE's website.

--
sig 104

[f'ups adjusted to suit my own preference, sorry]

Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
> this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
> if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.

Not all thermometers can be calibrated and the only way of knowing if
they are accurate is to use them at least once alongside thermometers
that *have* been calibrated.

Bubba

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> [f'ups adjusted to suit my own preference, sorry]
>
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
> > My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
> > this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
> > if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
>
> Not all thermometers can be calibrated and the only way of knowing if
> they are accurate is to use them at least once alongside thermometers
> that *have* been calibrated.
>
> Bubba

Thanks, Bubba Vic. I've dough for 2-3 loaves ready to shape (I'm using
a no-knead recipe <not Bittman's/Lahey's>) and will make some temp
adjustments when I bake them and see if I have an improved outcome.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

On Feb 10, 5:33*pm, Melba's Jammin' >
wrote:
> NOTE: *Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
> follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>
> When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ‹ I know that water
> boils at 212°F at my altitude. *Last time I made candy (December) it was
> off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
> candy. *
>
> How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? *How accurate does a
> baking temp have to be for baking bread? *
>
> My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
> this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. * How do I know
> if that's accurate? *I have no way to calibrate it that I know about. *
> Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
> time isn't changed? *
>
> I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
> underdone. *I like the color of the crust. *Yeah, I'll bake a loaf with
> my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
>
> Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.

It helps if you use more than one oven thermometer but it also helps
to check at different temperatures, and be sure to place the
thermometer in the center of the oven each time. It's best to check
your oven at mid range, if it's set to 350 and the thermometer says
350 or there abouts then that's about the best you can do, even if
your oven is off by 10-20 degrees at the higher temps. I think people
forget that home ovens are not laboratory ovens. It's really not all
that important that your oven thermostat is off, so long as you know
that it's off. Professional bakers don't concern themselves much with
oven accuracy, they know by sensory perception that whatever they've
baking is done to perfection... baking bread is likd sex... you look,
you sniff, you feel, you taste... after a while it becomes second
nature, you don't need any stinkin' gauge, you'll know.

Melba's Jammin' > wrote in news:barbschaller-
:

> NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
> follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>
> When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ‹ I know that
water
> boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it
was
> off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when
making
> candy.
>
> How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
> baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>
> My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
> this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I
know
> if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
> Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if
baking
> time isn't changed?
>
> I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
> underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf
with
> my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
>
> Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.

An oven doesn't work the way most people think it works.

What happens is you set the temperature, say 450F. This is the set
point. The control mechanism has a built-in band around the set point,
say +/- 20F, which is determined by the design of the thermocouple in
the mechanism.

This means that the oven will turn on when the tmperature goes below
450-20 or 430F and will go off when the temperature goes over 450_20 or
470F. These numbers are for illustration only, but most heating
mechanisms have to be built to compromise between tight accuracy and the
need to reduce the constant on-off-on-off called short-cycling.

So what happens. You put the thermometer in and wit a bit and take a
look. It's 435F, while the oven is "set at 450F." Hmmm.

Well, what you need to do is take a series of observations through the
glass panel in the door, if you have one. Failing that, put the
thermometer in and wait until the oven turns on and off. Look at what
the thermometer reads at each point and you'll have an idea of what's
going on. Of course, there is a possibility that the thermometer isn't
sensitive ehough to record these differences.

Most home-made recalibration consists of altering the position of the
dial numbers relative to the position of the stem controlling the
mechanism.

As far as the bottom being a bit light, where is the oven rack -- high,
middle or low? Is there stone or tiles on the rack to bake on?

Barry

On Sun 10 Feb 2008 03:33:17p, Melba's Jammin' told us...

> NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
> follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>
> When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ‹ I know that water
> boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
> off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
> candy.
>
> How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
> baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>
> My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
> this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
> if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
> Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
> time isn't changed?
>
> I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
> underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf with
> my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
>
> Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.

I have never trusted bi-metal spring type thernmometers, as they are quite
often inaccurate. I'm not sure exactly what you bought, but the only type
I trust is a bulb type like this one. They are usually highly accurate.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...mage_0?ie=UTF8
&n=284507&s=kitchen

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Sunday, 02(II)/10(X)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Do what you will with this tagline,
just don't bother me about it!
*******************************************

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
3.184...
> On Sun 10 Feb 2008 03:33:17p, Melba's Jammin' told us...
>
>> NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
>> follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>>
>> When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first < I know that water
>> boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
>> off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
>> candy.
>>
>> How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
>> baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>>
>> My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
>> this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
>> if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
>> Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
>> time isn't changed?
>>
>> I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
>> underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf with
>> my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
>>
>> Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.
>
> I have never trusted bi-metal spring type thernmometers, as they are quite
> often inaccurate. I'm not sure exactly what you bought, but the only type
> I trust is a bulb type like this one. They are usually highly accurate.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...mage_0?ie=UTF8
> &n=284507&s=kitchen
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright
>

Thanks, Wayne. I almost that one previous to the two that I have bought in
the past 2 years (or less.)

I like it, but I'm (I was) wondering about that fluid inside, as I get my
oven up to pretty high sometimes. I'm not too interested in checking much
above 475 usually, but it could be accidently left inside while heating to
above these temperatures.

If you have any ideas about this, let me know. I'm not even sure how to
research this.

Dee Dee

On Sun 10 Feb 2008 08:40:26p, Dee.Dee told us...

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
> 3.184...
>> On Sun 10 Feb 2008 03:33:17p, Melba's Jammin' told us...
>>
>>> NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
>>> follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>>>
>>> When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first < I know that
>>> water boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy
>>> (December) it was off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is
>>> important when making candy.
>>>
>>> How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
>>> baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>>>
>>> My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
>>> this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I
>>> know if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know
>>> about. Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome
>>> if baking time isn't changed?
>>>
>>> I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
>>> underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf
>>> with my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
>>>
>>> Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.
>>
>> I have never trusted bi-metal spring type thernmometers, as they are
>> quite often inaccurate. I'm not sure exactly what you bought, but the
>> only type I trust is a bulb type like this one. They are usually
>> highly accurate.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...image_0?ie=UTF
>> 8 &n=284507&s=kitchen
>>
>> --
>> Wayne Boatwright
>>
>
> Thanks, Wayne. I almost that one previous to the two that I have bought
> in the past 2 years (or less.)
>
> I like it, but I'm (I was) wondering about that fluid inside, as I get
> my oven up to pretty high sometimes. I'm not too interested in checking
> much above 475 usually, but it could be accidently left inside while
> heating to above these temperatures.
>
> If you have any ideas about this, let me know. I'm not even sure how to
> research this.
>
> Dee Dee
>
>
>
>

Dee, once you have calibrated your oven to the correct setting, you don't
really have to re-check it all that often. Perhaps only 3-4 times a year.
It's important to have a good bulb or electronic thermometer, but it can
stay in a cupboard most of the time. Calibrate at 350 or 400 or 450
degrees. When you satisfied, just set it aside. I don't keep my
thermometer in the oven except when calibrating. If you should
accidentally leave it in the oven above the maximum reading on the glass
tube, it will probably break and be kaput. I've done this only once in
over 30 years. (I left it in during a self-cleaning cycle) :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Sunday, 02(II)/10(X)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
'Bother,' said Pooh, tossing his empty
Guinness bottle into a dustbin.
*******************************************

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> I have never trusted bi-metal spring type thernmometers, as they are
>>> quite often inaccurate. I'm not sure exactly what you bought, but the
>>> only type I trust is a bulb type like this one. They are usually
>>> highly accurate.
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...image_0?ie=UTF
>>> 8 &n=284507&s=kitchen
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wayne Boatwright
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, Wayne. I almost that one previous to the two that I have bought
>> in the past 2 years (or less.)
>>
>> I like it, but I'm (I was) wondering about that fluid inside, as I get
>> my oven up to pretty high sometimes. I'm not too interested in checking
>> much above 475 usually, but it could be accidently left inside while
>> heating to above these temperatures.
>>
>> If you have any ideas about this, let me know. I'm not even sure how to
>> research this.
>>
>> Dee Dee
>>

> Dee, once you have calibrated your oven to the correct setting, you don't
> really have to re-check it all that often. Perhaps only 3-4 times a year.
> It's important to have a good bulb or electronic thermometer, but it can
> stay in a cupboard most of the time. Calibrate at 350 or 400 or 450
> degrees. When you satisfied, just set it aside. I don't keep my
> thermometer in the oven except when calibrating. If you should
> accidentally leave it in the oven above the maximum reading on the glass
> tube, it will probably break and be kaput. I've done this only once in
> over 30 years. (I left it in during a self-cleaning cycle) :-)


> Wayne Boatwright


Got it! Thanks so much.
Enjoy the day.
Dee Dee

On Mon 11 Feb 2008 12:02:07p, Dee.Dee told us...

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> I have never trusted bi-metal spring type thernmometers, as they are
>>>> quite often inaccurate. I'm not sure exactly what you bought, but the
>>>> only type I trust is a bulb type like this one. They are usually
>>>> highly accurate.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...ef=dp_image_0?
ie=UTF
>>>> 8 &n=284507&s=kitchen
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Wayne Boatwright
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks, Wayne. I almost that one previous to the two that I have
bought
>>> in the past 2 years (or less.)
>>>
>>> I like it, but I'm (I was) wondering about that fluid inside, as I get
>>> my oven up to pretty high sometimes. I'm not too interested in checking
>>> much above 475 usually, but it could be accidently left inside while
>>> heating to above these temperatures.
>>>
>>> If you have any ideas about this, let me know. I'm not even sure how to
>>> research this.
>>>
>>> Dee Dee
>>>
>
>> Dee, once you have calibrated your oven to the correct setting, you
don't
>> really have to re-check it all that often. Perhaps only 3-4 times a
year.
>> It's important to have a good bulb or electronic thermometer, but it can
>> stay in a cupboard most of the time. Calibrate at 350 or 400 or 450
>> degrees. When you satisfied, just set it aside. I don't keep my
>> thermometer in the oven except when calibrating. If you should
>> accidentally leave it in the oven above the maximum reading on the glass
>> tube, it will probably break and be kaput. I've done this only once in
>> over 30 years. (I left it in during a self-cleaning cycle) :-)
>
>
>> Wayne Boatwright
>
>
> Got it! Thanks so much.
> Enjoy the day.
> Dee Dee
>
>
>

You're welcome!

--
Wayne Boatwright

*******************************************
Date: Monday, 02(II)/11(XI)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
When we're planning for posterity, we
ought to remember that virtue is not
hereditary.
*******************************************

Uh, just put your candy thermometer in the oven!

Most candy thermometers don't have anything on them that can't
stand high temps - since you know the accuracy of your candy
thermometer use that in the oven alongside your new oven
thermometer.


In rec.food.cooking Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

: When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ? I know that water
: boils at 212?F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
: off by 7? and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
: candy.

: How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
: baking temp have to be for baking bread?

: My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
: this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
: if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
: Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
: time isn't changed?

In article >,
wrote:

> Uh, just put your candy thermometer in the oven!
>
> Most candy thermometers don't have anything on them that can't
> stand high temps - since you know the accuracy of your candy
> thermometer use that in the oven alongside your new oven
> thermometer.

Hmmm. Never thought of that, either.
Thanks.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:33:17 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
>follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>
>When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ‹ I know that water
>boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
>off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
>candy.
>
>How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
>baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>
>My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
>this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
>if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
>Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
>time isn't changed?
>
>I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
>underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf with
>my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
>
>Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.

15 degrees isn't going to make much difference in baking time or
doneness. You might be leaving your bread in the loaf pans too long,
that will tend to put moisture back into the bread. I take mine out
of the pan after about 10 minutes, the pan is still too hot to hold.

As for checking the accuracy of the thermometer, you might check with
your county extension agent. Sometimes they will have a calibrated
thermometer to use. I know that ours will check canner and pressure
cooker gauges.

Jack

In article >,
Retired VIP > wrote:

> 15 degrees isn't going to make much difference in baking time or
> doneness.

That seems to be up for debate.

> You might be leaving your bread in the loaf pans too long,

I don't think that's it, Jack. :-) These are baked on a stone, not in
a pan.

> that will tend to put moisture back into the bread. I take mine out
> of the pan after about 10 minutes, the pan is still too hot to hold.

Understood. I remove mine from the pans immediately.
>
> As for checking the accuracy of the thermometer, you might check with
> your county extension agent. Sometimes they will have a calibrated
> thermometer to use. I know that ours will check canner and pressure
> cooker gauges.
>
> Jack

Yeah, ours still does pressure gauges; they've never done oven gauges.
The utility company used to do it but stopped maybe 30 years ago or so.
Thanks,



--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

On 10 Feb, 22:33, Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
> follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>
> When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ‹ I know that water
> boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
> off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
> candy.
>
> How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
> baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>
> My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
> this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
> if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
> Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
> time isn't changed?
>
> I'm trying to figure out if that's why my bread bottoms are a titch
> underdone. I like the color of the crust. Yeah, I'll bake a loaf with
> my oven set to 465° to see how that is but I'm curious right now.
>
> Inquiring Mind Wants to Know.
> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJhttp://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
> Laissez les bons temps rouler!

Well, for bread, at least, absolute accuracy is MUCH, MUCH less
important than repeatability.

Anyway, I bake all lean dough at flat out max, whatever the oven will
achieve.

Love

John

In article >,
Janet Baraclough > wrote:

> The message >
> from Melba's Jammin' > contains these words:
>
> > NOTE: Crossposted to r.f.cooking, r.f.baking, alt.bread.recipes;
> > follow-ups set to r.f.equipment.
>
> > When I use my candy thermometer I calibrate it first ‹ I know that water
> > boils at 212°F at my altitude. Last time I made candy (December) it was
> > off by 7° and I adjusted accordingly; accuracy is important when making
> > candy.
>
> > How do I know if my oven thermometer is accurate? How accurate does a
> > baking temp have to be for baking bread?
>
> > My new thermometer (Taylor, non-gourmet-line product, bought at Target
> > this morning for $6) says my oven is cool by 15 degrees. How do I know
> > if that's accurate? I have no way to calibrate it that I know about.
> > Is that (15 degrees off) going to make a difference in outcome if baking
> > time isn't changed?
>
> Maybe you could get several friends to test the thermometer in their
> own ovens?
> If the thermometer consistently reads 15 degrees below their oven
> temps, you'll know the thermometer is at fault. If it reads the majority
> of ovens right, you know the thermometer is OK and your oven is slow..
> If it's the latter, you could just turn up the oven accordingly.
>
> Janet


Good thought, Janet!! Thank you!
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!