Is there a difference in quality between Wusthof-brand knives and
Emerilware knives manufactured by Wusthof? On amazon.com, there is a
$50 difference between the two-knife starter kits for each of these
models (with Emerilware being the cheaper).

Thanks,
Jason

(Jason Casden) wrote in news:5b46712d.0311061222.7534e2
@posting.google.com:

> s there a difference in quality between Wusthof-brand knives and
> Emerilware knives manufactured by Wusthof? On amazon.com, there is a
> $50 difference between the two-knife starter kits for each of these
> models (with Emerilware being the cheaper).

Wusthoff makes (at least) four different lines of knives, each with
different characteristics and different prices.

http://www.wusthof.com/main.htm

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |

Jason Casden wrote:

>Is there a difference in quality between Wusthof-brand knives and
>Emerilware knives manufactured by Wusthof? On amazon.com, there is a
>$50 difference between the two-knife starter kits for each of these
>models (with Emerilware being the cheaper).
> =20
>
Hi Jason.

There is no such thing as "Wusthof-brand knives".

They have several different lines.

You have to compare the Wuesthof Gourmet line with the EmerilWare line=20
of knives.
They are the same, both stamped and laser-cut (whatever that means),=20
definitely not professional quality.
They could not sell their Gourmet line as such and hope to peddle them=20
unter the EmerilWare brand.
Marketing & Merchandising, confuse the customer, trade on a well known=20
name like Emeril.

I would not recommend either one for serious cutting.

If you want something "Emeril", check out his toothpaste. :-)

BTW, the same goes for EmerilWare brand of AllClad Pots&Pans. Cheaply=20
made stuff, not clad at all. Not made by AllClad but somewhere in Korea. =

I'm pretty sure the Gourmet line of Wuesthofs will be made in China soon =

too, if it not already is. Forget it, buy Ginzus instead.
Or a real forged knife with excellent steel, F. Dick Premier.

--=20
Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com ,
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

In article >, H. W. Hans
Kuntze > wrote:

> Jason Casden wrote:
>
> >Is there a difference in quality between Wusthof-brand knives and
> >Emerilware knives manufactured by Wusthof? On amazon.com, there is a
> >$50 difference between the two-knife starter kits for each of these
> >models (with Emerilware being the cheaper).
> >
> Hi Jason.
>
> There is no such thing as "Wusthof-brand knives".
>
> They have several different lines.
>
> You have to compare the Wuesthof Gourmet line with the EmerilWare line
> of knives.
> They are the same, both stamped and laser-cut (whatever that means),
> definitely not professional quality.
> They could not sell their Gourmet line as such and hope to peddle them
> unter the EmerilWare brand.
> Marketing & Merchandising, confuse the customer, trade on a well known
> name like Emeril.
>
> I would not recommend either one for serious cutting.
>
> If you want something "Emeril", check out his toothpaste. :-)
>
> BTW, the same goes for EmerilWare brand of AllClad Pots&Pans. Cheaply
> made stuff, not clad at all. Not made by AllClad but somewhere in Korea.
> I'm pretty sure the Gourmet line of Wuesthofs will be made in China soon
> too, if it not already is. Forget it, buy Ginzus instead.
> Or a real forged knife with excellent steel, F. Dick Premier.
>
> --
> Sincerly,
>
> C=¦-)§ H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
> http://www.cmcchef.com ,

I use Wusthof Classic. It looks very similar to F Dick's forged knives.
Do you think there is a noticeable difference?

And... that's quite a useful Web site in your signature.

--
Jack

Jack B wrote:

>In article >, H. W. Hans
>Kuntze > wrote:
>
> =20
>
> [....]
>
>I use Wusthof Classic. It looks very similar to F Dick's forged knives.
>Do you think there is a noticeable difference?
>
Yes Jack. You will notice the difference when you manually resharpen and =

on the edhe-holding ability of the knives.
But the Classics are fine knives too.
Although nowadays I would throw my money F.Dicks way, the only large=20
german knife maker that still caters to the pro-trade.

>
>And... that's quite a useful Web site in your signature.
> =20
>
Thanks.

BTW, if you need knives professionally, send an email to Barbara,=20

Her husband works for F. Dick in the NY area, they get you the=20
ablsolutely best prices on Dick and great service.
Nice, honest people.
Barbara also sells on Ebay.

--=20
Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com ,
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

There is no such thing as "Wusthof-brand knives".

They have several different lines.

You have to compare the Wuesthof Gourmet line with the EmerilWare line
of knives.

That's right. They are exactly the same knives.

They are the same, both stamped and laser-cut (whatever that means),
definitely not professional quality.

It means the knives are blocked as opposed to being forged. They are no
more or less "professional quality" than any other blocked knives. The term
"definitely not" begins the agenda here.

They could not sell their Gourmet line as such and hope to peddle them
unter the EmerilWare brand.

Not true. The Gourmet line is Wusthof's third best seller. They contracted
with Emeril not to save the line but to enhance sales further.

Marketing & Merchandising, confuse the customer, trade on a well known
name like Emeril.

I fail to see how it confuses anybody.

I would not recommend either one for serious cutting.

Why? Have you ever tried them?

If you want something "Emeril", check out his toothpaste. :-)

Now we're getting down to the agenda. Sounds like chef envy to me.

BTW, the same goes for EmerilWare brand of AllClad Pots&Pans. Cheaply
made stuff, not clad at all. Not made by AllClad but somewhere in Korea.

Nor is it claimed to be clad. Nor is it claimed to be anywhere but Korea.
The boxes and the cookware are well marked. The cookware, incidentally, is
among the best non stick products in the industry.

I'm pretty sure the Gourmet line of Wuesthofs will be made in China soon
too, if it not already is.

No. Every single Wusthof knife is made in Germany. Not a single product is
made in China, nor are there any plans to do so.

Forget it, buy Ginzus instead.

C'mon, you're acting like child. Really.

Or a real forged knife with excellent steel, F. Dick Premier.

I would agree that forged knives are better but I would not agree that the
blocked knives are inherently bad. Your agenda is really showing this
evening.

Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com

Fred wrote:

>[....]
>I would agree that forged knives are better but I would not agree that t=
he
>blocked knives are inherently bad. Your agenda is really showing this
>evening.
>
Sorry Fred, what is "my agenda"?
F. Dick is a family company, so I can't owned any shares.
I don't get paid by them or anybody else to promote products nor would I =

want to. I'm not a kitchen-whore.
I don't sell anything, except my skills and knowledge.
Yes, I have owned a beautiful pre-gourmet line boning knife.
The handle broke in my hand while boning a leg of veal. Luckily I did=20
not amputate some fingers.
They replaced it with a new one. Kind of like BFI's (waste removal)=20
slogan, you like our service or twice your garbage back.
Obviously, it dit not go back into my toolbox. Nor would I ever buy=20
another knife of their line.

>Fred
>Knife Outlet
>
Or could it be that you don't carry F. Dick knives?
Talk about agenda, Fred. What color is your kitchen towel?

--=20
Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com ,
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

"H. W. Hans Kuntze" > wrote in message
...
Fred wrote:

>[....]
>I would agree that forged knives are better but I would not agree that the
>blocked knives are inherently bad. Your agenda is really showing this
>evening.
>
Sorry Fred, what is "my agenda"?
F. Dick is a family company, so I can't owned any shares.
I don't get paid by them or anybody else to promote products nor would I
want to. I'm not a kitchen-whore.
I don't sell anything, except my skills and knowledge.
Yes, I have owned a beautiful pre-gourmet line boning knife.
The handle broke in my hand while boning a leg of veal. Luckily I did
not amputate some fingers.
They replaced it with a new one. Kind of like BFI's (waste removal)
slogan, you like our service or twice your garbage back.
Obviously, it dit not go back into my toolbox. Nor would I ever buy
another knife of their line.

>Fred
>Knife Outlet
>
Or could it be that you don't carry F. Dick knives?
Talk about agenda, Fred. What color is your kitchen towel?

--
Sincerly,

C=¦-)§ H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com ,
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/

Actually, I do carry F Dick knives nor did I say anything against them.
You're guessing.

Fred

There was I thinking that the group had gotten quiet.....
Both Fred & Hans have valuable experience and opinions.
Hans can be very strong in his opinions. The same can be said of Fred.
I hope that they are two different individuals rather than someone with
strong Bipolar (just a joke).

Hans I do like your tag line.



--
The posting email address is not read or received
to contact me email me chefUnderscorejohn at the dash office dash party dot
com
on the web www.the-office-party.com
"Fred" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "H. W. Hans Kuntze" > wrote in message
> ...
> Fred wrote:
>
> >[....]
> >I would agree that forged knives are better but I would not agree that
the
> >blocked knives are inherently bad. Your agenda is really showing this
> >evening.
> >
> Sorry Fred, what is "my agenda"?
> F. Dick is a family company, so I can't owned any shares.
> I don't get paid by them or anybody else to promote products nor would I
> want to. I'm not a kitchen-whore.
> I don't sell anything, except my skills and knowledge.
> Yes, I have owned a beautiful pre-gourmet line boning knife.
> The handle broke in my hand while boning a leg of veal. Luckily I did
> not amputate some fingers.
> They replaced it with a new one. Kind of like BFI's (waste removal)
> slogan, you like our service or twice your garbage back.
> Obviously, it dit not go back into my toolbox. Nor would I ever buy
> another knife of their line.
>
> >Fred
> >Knife Outlet
> >
> Or could it be that you don't carry F. Dick knives?
> Talk about agenda, Fred. What color is your kitchen towel?
>
> --
> Sincerly,
>
> C=¦-)§ H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
> http://www.cmcchef.com ,
> "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
> _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
>
> Actually, I do carry F Dick knives nor did I say anything against them.
> You're guessing.
>
> Fred
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/2003

"John LaBella" > wrote in message
news:ZcPqb.137179$HS4.1078450@attbi_s01...
> There was I thinking that the group had gotten quiet.....
> Both Fred & Hans have valuable experience and opinions.
> Hans can be very strong in his opinions. The same can be said of Fred.
> I hope that they are two different individuals rather than someone with
> strong Bipolar (just a joke).
>
> Hans I do like your tag line.
>
>
>
> --
> The posting email address is not read or received
> to contact me email me chefUnderscorejohn at the dash office dash party
dot
> com
> on the web www.the-office-party.com
> "Fred" > wrote in message
> et...
> >
> > "H. W. Hans Kuntze" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > Fred wrote:
> >
> > >[....]
> > >I would agree that forged knives are better but I would not agree that
> the
> > >blocked knives are inherently bad. Your agenda is really showing this
> > >evening.
> > >
> > Sorry Fred, what is "my agenda"?
> > F. Dick is a family company, so I can't owned any shares.
> > I don't get paid by them or anybody else to promote products nor would I
> > want to. I'm not a kitchen-whore.
> > I don't sell anything, except my skills and knowledge.
> > Yes, I have owned a beautiful pre-gourmet line boning knife.
> > The handle broke in my hand while boning a leg of veal. Luckily I did
> > not amputate some fingers.
> > They replaced it with a new one. Kind of like BFI's (waste removal)
> > slogan, you like our service or twice your garbage back.
> > Obviously, it dit not go back into my toolbox. Nor would I ever buy
> > another knife of their line.
> >
> > >Fred
> > >Knife Outlet
> > >
> > Or could it be that you don't carry F. Dick knives?
> > Talk about agenda, Fred. What color is your kitchen towel?
> >
> > --
> > Sincerly,
> >
> > C=¦-)§ H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
> > http://www.cmcchef.com ,
> > "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
> > _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
> >
> > Actually, I do carry F Dick knives nor did I say anything against them.
> > You're guessing.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/2003
>
>

We are very different people. I guess posters should define opinion as
opinion and fact as fact. My problem with Hans is that he often states
opinion as fact and that he browbeats products that are perfectly good
products but not his personal preference. It's fine to have preferences and
share them. It's fine to have opinions and to state them. I think it's
just a style issue with me. Take care.

Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com

In article >,
(Jason Casden) wrote:

> s there a difference in quality between Wusthof-brand knives and
> Emerilware knives manufactured by Wusthof? On amazon.com, there is a
> $50 difference between the two-knife starter kits for each of these
> models (with Emerilware being the cheaper).


I have personally seen the Emeril line. The knives are just flat blades
the entire length without that beefed-up section where it joins the
handle (I always forget what that is called sorry). In addition, those
knives are not forged, they are stamped and of much lower quality. Most
of the knife manufacturers put out a line or two of these stamped
blades. They will look impressive in a knife block to the unknowing eye
but are usually not for anyone who cooks a lot.

"Phaedrine Stonebridge" > wrote in
message
news
> In article >,
> (Jason Casden) wrote:
>
> > s there a difference in quality between Wusthof-brand knives and
> > Emerilware knives manufactured by Wusthof? On amazon.com, there is a
> > $50 difference between the two-knife starter kits for each of these
> > models (with Emerilware being the cheaper).
>
>
> I have personally seen the Emeril line. The knives are just flat blades
> the entire length without that beefed-up section where it joins the
> handle (I always forget what that is called sorry). In addition, those
> knives are not forged, they are stamped and of much lower quality. Most
> of the knife manufacturers put out a line or two of these stamped
> blades. They will look impressive in a knife block to the unknowing eye
> but are usually not for anyone who cooks a lot.

I never care for hyperbole when it isn't indicated so I'll jump in here and
challenge the term "much lower quality."

Emerilware knives are from the Wusthof Gourmet series which has been
available for years. The knives are nothing new, the endorsement is new.
The knives are blocked, not forged, as the poster says but that doesn't say
anything about quality, just about design.

The purpose of forging a knife is to provide a bolster and nothing more.
The bolster adds weight to the area in front of the handle and helps the
knife balance better by reducing blade heaviness. It also adds weight to
the knife which some users prefer. Forging (or sintering in the case of
Henckels) is used because it is uneconomic to grind a knife from stock the
thickness of a bolster. Forged knives do not cut better than blocked knives
nor do they last longer, all other things being equal.
In the case of the Wusthof Gourmet series, all other things are equal. The
same steel is used as in the the forged series and the same edge geometry
and the same composite handle material. Only the design and feel are
different. It is cheaper to make blocked knives but it doesn't produce
lower quality.

I'm not suggesting that the design and feel aren't important - they are -
but I challenge the term "much lower quality" when, in fact, it isn't true.
The quality, materials, and fit and finish are the same, not "much lower."

Don't mistake me, I prefer forged, bolstered knives to blocked knives and
use them myself. I'm not defending blocked knives, I'm just trying to put
some reason into the way people react to them. A good cook can prep food
well with blocked knives as long as they are properly designed and
maintained.

Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com

"Fred" > wrote in message
t...

> I'm not suggesting that the design and feel aren't important - they are -
> but I challenge the term "much lower quality" when, in fact, it isn't
true.
> The quality, materials, and fit and finish are the same, not "much lower."

Sorry, Fred, I'd have to disagree. While it might certainly
be POSSIBLE to produce the same quality of knife via a
stamped/blocked design, the fact remains that such knives
generally represent the lower end of the product line for most
makers. There are a few exceptions, but most typically such
knives will be thinner and lighter than their high-end, forged
counterparts, and while the basic materials might be the same,
the fit and finish are not comparable.

I use 'em, too, but have several examples of forged and stamped
products from the same maker (various), and the difference
is quite clear.


Bob M.

>
> Sorry, Fred, I'd have to disagree. While it might certainly
> be POSSIBLE to produce the same quality of knife via a
> stamped/blocked design, the fact remains that such knives
> generally represent the lower end of the product line for most
> makers. There are a few exceptions, but most typically such
> knives will be thinner and lighter than their high-end, forged
> counterparts, and while the basic materials might be the same,
> the fit and finish are not comparable.

We are talking about Wustof Classic and Gourmet (Emerilware.) The Gourmet
do have thinner blades. That doesn't affect the ability to cut or the
quality. Remember Global have thin blades well. The Gourmet series are
lighter to sure as any blocked knife would be. Some people consider that an
advantage and an improvement over heavier knives. It isn't a quality issue.
It's a design and feel issue as I said.

Finally, the fit and finish of the Gourmet series is indeed comparable to
that of the Classic series. Sorry, but it is. I think you are disagreeing
with something other than what I actually said, not uncommon on newsgroups.
>
> I use 'em, too, but have several examples of forged and stamped
> products from the same maker (various), and the difference
> is quite clear.

Then go check out your Wustof Classic and Gourmet carefully and report back.
I think you'll agree upon closer inspection that the differences relate to
design and feel, not cutting ability or quality.

I think the problem here relates to the meaning of the term quality.
Preferable doesn't mean higher quality. Materials, construction, fit and
finish and performance are parameters of quality, not preference. I prefer
the bolstered knives as well. I just don't agree that the Wustoff Gourmet
series is "much lower quality." In fact I know it isn't. It is a knife
made of comparable materials and comparable manufacturing quality but with a
less expensive construction that results in a ligher, thinner knife with
more blade heaviness than you or I would prefer. Design and feel issue.
Not a quality issue. Perhaps we're just jousting about semantics. I think
we probably agree about preference. Good cooking.

Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com

>
>
> Bob M.
>
>

"Fred" > wrote in message news:<tzgtb.4906$aS
>> Then go check out your Wustof Classic and Gourmet carefully and
report back.
> I think you'll agree upon closer inspection that the differences relate to
> design and feel, not cutting ability or quality.

This is really a silly argument. I own Wusthof Grand
Prix...Gourmet...and misc others crowned by a vintage Sabatier Jeune
10" carbon steel chefs knife.

They all cut well when kept sharp. Almost any knife will perform well
when the edge is maintained. Comfort varies but it's all dependent on
style and preference.

-spence

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:40:53 -0600, Phaedrine Stonebridge
> wrote:

>In article >,
> (Jason Casden) wrote:
>
>> s there a difference in quality between Wusthof-brand knives and
>> Emerilware knives manufactured by Wusthof? On amazon.com, there is a
>> $50 difference between the two-knife starter kits for each of these
>> models (with Emerilware being the cheaper).
>
>
>I have personally seen the Emeril line. The knives are just flat blades
>the entire length without that beefed-up section where it joins the
>handle (I always forget what that is called sorry). In addition, those
>knives are not forged, they are stamped and of much lower quality. Most
>of the knife manufacturers put out a line or two of these stamped
>blades. They will look impressive in a knife block to the unknowing eye
>but are usually not for anyone who cooks a lot.


ConsumerReports.Org recently rated knives. They claim the "Wusthof
Trident Grand Prix" forged carbon steel knives were the best in their
tests!

Bill

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 02:53:55 GMT, "Fred" >
wrote:

>We are talking about Wustof Classic and Gourmet (Emerilware.) The Gourmet
>do have thinner blades. That doesn't affect the ability to cut or the
>quality. Remember Global have thin blades well. The Gourmet series are
>lighter to sure as any blocked knife would be. Some people consider that an
>advantage and an improvement over heavier knives. It isn't a quality issue.
>It's a design and feel issue as I said.
>
>Finally, the fit and finish of the Gourmet series is indeed comparable to
>that of the Classic series. Sorry, but it is. I think you are disagreeing
>with something other than what I actually said, not uncommon on newsgroups.
>>
>> I use 'em, too, but have several examples of forged and stamped
>> products from the same maker (various), and the difference
>> is quite clear.
>
>Then go check out your Wustof Classic and Gourmet carefully and report back.
>I think you'll agree upon closer inspection that the differences relate to
>design and feel, not cutting ability or quality.
>
>I think the problem here relates to the meaning of the term quality.
>Preferable doesn't mean higher quality. Materials, construction, fit and
>finish and performance are parameters of quality, not preference. I prefer
>the bolstered knives as well. I just don't agree that the Wustoff Gourmet
>series is "much lower quality." In fact I know it isn't. It is a knife
>made of comparable materials and comparable manufacturing quality but with a
>less expensive construction that results in a ligher, thinner knife with
>more blade heaviness than you or I would prefer. Design and feel issue.
>Not a quality issue. Perhaps we're just jousting about semantics. I think
>we probably agree about preference. Good cooking.
>
>Fred
>Knife Outlet
>http://www.knifeoutlet.com


Hey Fred!
Where can I get the best price on a set of Wusthof Trident Grand Prix
knives? (such as the eight piece set recommended by Consumer
Reports...)

"Bill" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:40:53 -0600, Phaedrine Stonebridge
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > (Jason Casden) wrote:
> >
> >> s there a difference in quality between Wusthof-brand knives and
> >> Emerilware knives manufactured by Wusthof? On amazon.com, there is a
> >> $50 difference between the two-knife starter kits for each of these
> >> models (with Emerilware being the cheaper).
> >
> >
> >I have personally seen the Emeril line. The knives are just flat blades
> >the entire length without that beefed-up section where it joins the
> >handle (I always forget what that is called sorry). In addition, those
> >knives are not forged, they are stamped and of much lower quality. Most
> >of the knife manufacturers put out a line or two of these stamped
> >blades. They will look impressive in a knife block to the unknowing eye
> >but are usually not for anyone who cooks a lot.
>
>
> ConsumerReports.Org recently rated knives. They claim the "Wusthof
> Trident Grand Prix" forged carbon steel knives were the best in their
> tests!
>
> Bill

"high carbon" stainless steel (a fairly meaningless term.) They certainly
aren't carbon steel, though. Take care.

Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com