Wolf has not discontinued their residential line. The residential line has
a separate website. (sorry, I don't have the address handy. You will
probably find that Wolf is somewhat more expensive than DCS.
Blue Star is a less known brand that is very highly rated and slightly less
expensive. Five Star is a somewhat lesser brand (but still very good) and a
full step less expensive. Additionally, they can often be found on e-bay at
a good discount.

www.fivestarrange.com
http://www.prizer-painter.com/Ranges.htm


"Joe Helmick" > wrote in message
...
> Hi everyone,
>
> Reading an ancient thread on google groups has me wanting to pose the same
> question again: I am trying to get opinions and actual owners'
experiences with
> the higher-end gas ranges.
>
> As part of a kitchen renovation, my wife and I are considering a nice
range,
> 36", stainless, all-gas. We do not need a self-cleaning feature. We cook
and
> entertain A LOT, and we want the satisfaction of a using a good tool when
we
> cook, but we are also mindful of cost. If we can save $1000 on one model
over
> another and get the same results, that's just fine -- name recognition is
less
> important than performance.
>
> We're looking at DCS ranges, and looked up Wolf today, but was dismayed to
see
> that they apparently have discontinued their residential line. (?) We've
seen
> the kitchen magazine ads for many of them but want to solicit real
experiences
> and opinions.
>
> Joe

I've heard pretty good things about Blue Star's design, slightly less good
things about the build quality and sales and service network, but overall it
seems to rank with the big names, some reviewers even give it top honors.

Five Star, OTOH, is a cheaper range, both in cost and in quality - it just
doesn't have the heft of the other pro-style ranges. You get the prostyle
look but not the same quality. In return you pay somewhat less.


"Philip Weiss" > wrote in message
...
> Wolf has not discontinued their residential line. The residential line
has
> a separate website. (sorry, I don't have the address handy. You will
> probably find that Wolf is somewhat more expensive than DCS.
> Blue Star is a less known brand that is very highly rated and slightly
less
> expensive. Five Star is a somewhat lesser brand (but still very good) and
a
> full step less expensive. Additionally, they can often be found on e-bay
at
> a good discount.
>
> www.fivestarrange.com
> http://www.prizer-painter.com/Ranges.htm
>
>
> "Joe Helmick" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Reading an ancient thread on google groups has me wanting to pose the
same
> > question again: I am trying to get opinions and actual owners'
> experiences with
> > the higher-end gas ranges.
> >
> > As part of a kitchen renovation, my wife and I are considering a nice
> range,
> > 36", stainless, all-gas. We do not need a self-cleaning feature. We
cook
> and
> > entertain A LOT, and we want the satisfaction of a using a good tool
when
> we
> > cook, but we are also mindful of cost. If we can save $1000 on one
model
> over
> > another and get the same results, that's just fine -- name recognition
is
> less
> > important than performance.
> >
> > We're looking at DCS ranges, and looked up Wolf today, but was dismayed
to
> see
> > that they apparently have discontinued their residential line. (?)
We've
> seen
> > the kitchen magazine ads for many of them but want to solicit real
> experiences
> > and opinions.
> >
> > Joe
>
>

Wolf no longer manufactures a residential line of ranges. Sub-Zero bought
the residential line...

--
Michael Harp
http://CopperPans.com


SubOn 1/27/04 7:58 PM, in article ,
"Philip Weiss" > wrote:

> Wolf has not discontinued their residential line. The residential line has
> a separate website. (sorry, I don't have the address handy. You will
> probably find that Wolf is somewhat more expensive than DCS.
> Blue Star is a less known brand that is very highly rated and slightly less
> expensive. Five Star is a somewhat lesser brand (but still very good) and a
> full step less expensive. Additionally, they can often be found on e-bay at
> a good discount.
>
> www.fivestarrange.com
> http://www.prizer-painter.com/Ranges.htm
>
>
> "Joe Helmick" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Reading an ancient thread on google groups has me wanting to pose the same
>> question again: I am trying to get opinions and actual owners'
> experiences with
>> the higher-end gas ranges.
>>
>> As part of a kitchen renovation, my wife and I are considering a nice
> range,
>> 36", stainless, all-gas. We do not need a self-cleaning feature. We cook
> and
>> entertain A LOT, and we want the satisfaction of a using a good tool when
> we
>> cook, but we are also mindful of cost. If we can save $1000 on one model
> over
>> another and get the same results, that's just fine -- name recognition is
> less
>> important than performance.
>>
>> We're looking at DCS ranges, and looked up Wolf today, but was dismayed to
> see
>> that they apparently have discontinued their residential line. (?) We've
> seen
>> the kitchen magazine ads for many of them but want to solicit real
> experiences
>> and opinions.
>>
>> Joe
>
>

"Joe Helmick" > wrote in message
...
> Hi everyone,
>
> Reading an ancient thread on google groups has me wanting to pose the same
> question again: I am trying to get opinions and actual owners'
experiences with
> the higher-end gas ranges.
>
> As part of a kitchen renovation, my wife and I are considering a nice
range,
> 36", stainless, all-gas. We do not need a self-cleaning feature. We cook
and
> entertain A LOT, and we want the satisfaction of a using a good tool when
we
> cook, but we are also mindful of cost. If we can save $1000 on one model
over
> another and get the same results, that's just fine -- name recognition is
less
> important than performance.
>
> We're looking at DCS ranges,

DON'T!!!!!!

I have had a 48" DCS all gas for about two years. It has been a nightmare
getting service for it. Expensive, unreliable (DCS's only approved service
group in the area) and did I mention expensive? DCS takes three to four
weeks to answer emails and simply does not return phone calls.

I would highly recommend ANYTHING but a DCS. The GE electric I had in my
apartment in college was more reliable. Currently our grill won't light,
one row of burners may or may not light and the broiler may or may not
light. To fix the grill will be a minimum of $325.

If you entertain consider this situation...eight couples are on their way to
your house for your turn at the revolving dinner party. Everyone is
expecting something special off this wondrous DCS range. The little oven
fires but NOTHING else will light (matches don't work, something clogged the
pipes..warranty took care of it two weeks later). You run next door and
cook the meal on a standard GE cook top. The DCS mistake was the topic of
conversation at dinner.

We are looking at pretty much what you are looking for. We went to the
Viking cooking demo and were impressed, although we are still leaning
toward a Dacor Product. Look at:
http://www.vikingrange.com/welcome.html


Joe Helmick wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Reading an ancient thread on google groups has me wanting to pose the same
> question again: I am trying to get opinions and actual owners' experiences with
> the higher-end gas ranges.
>
> As part of a kitchen renovation, my wife and I are considering a nice range,
> 36", stainless, all-gas. We do not need a self-cleaning feature. We cook and
> entertain A LOT, and we want the satisfaction of a using a good tool when we
> cook, but we are also mindful of cost. If we can save $1000 on one model over
> another and get the same results, that's just fine -- name recognition is less
> important than performance.
>
> We're looking at DCS ranges, and looked up Wolf today, but was dismayed to see
> that they apparently have discontinued their residential line. (?) We've seen
> the kitchen magazine ads for many of them but want to solicit real experiences
> and opinions.
>
> Joe

I bought a Garland 30-inch gas range just before they switched
residential models to Blue Star. I like it a lot: Oven is sizable,
burners are quite hot. If I did it over I'd skip the stainless steel
exterior for black. The front left (hottest) burner sometimes takes a
few seconds to ignite, causing a really large POOF and flame.

I hear Blue Star is just as good and has a longer warranty.

Dacor is also supposed to be very good. I'd check how easy and
expensive service is before you buy any oven.

Also bear in mind that the markup on all these is ridiculous. A
Garland service person told me my stove cost about $300 or so to
construct. A fair profit when Garland sold it for $3,000.

(Ken Sternberg) writes:

>Also bear in mind that the markup on all these is ridiculous. A
>Garland service person told me my stove cost about $300 or so to
>construct. A fair profit when Garland sold it for $3,000.

Actually, Garland sold it for about half of that amount to your
appliance dealer. I think the service person is underestimating the
manufacturing cost somewhat, but it is true that the direct production
cost of most manufactured goods is less than half of the wholesale price.

But that doesn't take into account engineering design, warranty service,
management, marketing, print advertising, trade shows, and hopefully
(horror of horrors!) a little profit at the end.

Garland, if it was lucky, made about $150 in profit on your stove, before
taxes.
--
Mike Nolan

If you want a Bluestar you better order it now. I tried to get one and they
said it would take about 6 months. The rep that Bluestar sent me to steered
me away from Bluestar to DCS because of the delay and quality control
issues. FYI.




"Joe Helmick" > wrote in message
...
> Hi everyone,
>
> Reading an ancient thread on google groups has me wanting to pose the same
> question again: I am trying to get opinions and actual owners'
experiences with
> the higher-end gas ranges.
>
> As part of a kitchen renovation, my wife and I are considering a nice
range,
> 36", stainless, all-gas. We do not need a self-cleaning feature. We cook
and
> entertain A LOT, and we want the satisfaction of a using a good tool when
we
> cook, but we are also mindful of cost. If we can save $1000 on one model
over
> another and get the same results, that's just fine -- name recognition is
less
> important than performance.
>
> We're looking at DCS ranges, and looked up Wolf today, but was dismayed to
see
> that they apparently have discontinued their residential line. (?) We've
seen
> the kitchen magazine ads for many of them but want to solicit real
experiences
> and opinions.
>
> Joe

You should tell Bluestar to get another rep. With friends like this who
needs enemies.

The rep might have been honest or he might have been steering you to a brand
where he makes more money.


"Skeeter" > wrote in message
...
>
> If you want a Bluestar you better order it now. I tried to get one and
they
> said it would take about 6 months. The rep that Bluestar sent me to
steered
> me away from Bluestar to DCS because of the delay and quality control
> issues. FYI.
>
>
>
>
> "Joe Helmick" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Reading an ancient thread on google groups has me wanting to pose the
same
> > question again: I am trying to get opinions and actual owners'
> experiences with
> > the higher-end gas ranges.
> >
> > As part of a kitchen renovation, my wife and I are considering a nice
> range,
> > 36", stainless, all-gas. We do not need a self-cleaning feature. We
cook
> and
> > entertain A LOT, and we want the satisfaction of a using a good tool
when
> we
> > cook, but we are also mindful of cost. If we can save $1000 on one
model
> over
> > another and get the same results, that's just fine -- name recognition
is
> less
> > important than performance.
> >
> > We're looking at DCS ranges, and looked up Wolf today, but was dismayed
to
> see
> > that they apparently have discontinued their residential line. (?)
We've
> seen
> > the kitchen magazine ads for many of them but want to solicit real
> experiences
> > and opinions.
> >
> > Joe
>
>

I've been researching these for a month or so, and here's what I've found:

- There is relatively little good objective information on-line. There
are virtually no professionally conducted reviews, most of the info I've
found is in discussion forums.

- I subscribed to a month of Consumer Reports online, their range
reviews for the most part do not include the high end pro models. There
is quite a bit of traffic in their forums requesting that they review
this portion of the market, but they contend that the market is too
small in terms of units sold for them to cover it.

- gardenweb.com has probably the best forum I've found so far, seems
like a knowledgable bunch of folks.

- Opinions in all of the forums are a little varied, but there are
themes - Thermador, Wolf, Blue Star, and Garland are the only brands
that avoid getting viciously slammed somewhere or another. Viking and
DCS seem to carry the bulk of the bad reports, most of which involve
poor manufacturing followed by horrific warranty/repair service.

Cheers - Gregg

Joe Helmick wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Reading an ancient thread on google groups has me wanting to pose the same
> question again: I am trying to get opinions and actual owners' experiences with
> the higher-end gas ranges.
>
> As part of a kitchen renovation, my wife and I are considering a nice range,
> 36", stainless, all-gas. We do not need a self-cleaning feature. We cook and
> entertain A LOT, and we want the satisfaction of a using a good tool when we
> cook, but we are also mindful of cost. If we can save $1000 on one model over
> another and get the same results, that's just fine -- name recognition is less
> important than performance.
>
> We're looking at DCS ranges, and looked up Wolf today, but was dismayed to see
> that they apparently have discontinued their residential line. (?) We've seen
> the kitchen magazine ads for many of them but want to solicit real experiences
> and opinions.
>
> Joe

Check out this article by David Rosengarten. He is a well known food writer
and newsletter publisher and is associated with the FoodTV network.

http://www.departures.com/ad/ad_1103_cookranges.html



"Gregg & Jackie" > wrote in message
...
>
> I've been researching these for a month or so, and here's what I've found:
>
> - There is relatively little good objective information on-line. There
> are virtually no professionally conducted reviews, most of the info I've
> found is in discussion forums.
>
>

Interesting article on the various performance and features, however it
doesn't address the thing that most of the discussions revolve around,
and that is build quality, reliability, and service. I would really
love to see some hard data on repair records, if only Consumer Reports
would tackle the topic.

Thanks for the pointer... Cheers - Gregg

Philip Weiss wrote:
> Check out this article by David Rosengarten. He is a well known food writer
> and newsletter publisher and is associated with the FoodTV network.
>
> http://www.departures.com/ad/ad_1103_cookranges.html

"Kent H." > wrote in message >...
> We are looking at pretty much what you are looking for. We went to the
> Viking cooking demo and were impressed, although we are still leaning
> toward a Dacor Product. Look at:
> http://www.vikingrange.com/welcome.html
>
>
> Joe Helmick wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Reading an ancient thread on google groups has me wanting to pose the same
> > question again: I am trying to get opinions and actual owners' experiences with
> > the higher-end gas ranges.
> >
> > As part of a kitchen renovation, my wife and I are considering a nice range,
> > 36", stainless, all-gas. We do not need a self-cleaning feature. We cook and
> > entertain A LOT, and we want the satisfaction of a using a good tool when we
> > cook, but we are also mindful of cost. If we can save $1000 on one model over
> > another and get the same results, that's just fine -- name recognition is less
> > important than performance.
> >
> > We're looking at DCS ranges, and looked up Wolf today, but was dismayed to see
> > that they apparently have discontinued their residential line. (?) We've seen
> > the kitchen magazine ads for many of them but want to solicit real experiences
> > and opinions.
> >
> > Joe


We bought (one year ago) a Dacor duel-fuel (RSD30). I'm very happy
with it. But I found that the 12000 BTU burner is a little too low
for my needs. It works fine, but sometime I have big pots that I'd
rather have more BTU for. but I love their continuous grates, which
was one of my prime factors. The elec oven works really well, and the
2 different convection features also work well. The cookie sheets
that came w/ it were worthwhile. 3 racks in oven are great. I clean
it with a liquid cleaner, so that's easy, and does not scratch. I
like the knobs, the feel and location of them, the very flat top,
nothing sticking up in back to get dirty and that you need to reach
across hot pots to get to.

We looked at others, but the combination of e-oven w/ continuous
grates and flat top did ti for me. I wrote them and told them to go
higher than 12000 BTU on their next models, though. But generally, I
don't need that much anyway, just occasionally. Have not yet had any
problems at all.

just my $.02
betsy