It's a long and sorry story, but I need to replace a 24" Kichen Aid
double convection electric wall oven that was less than 3 years old.

In brief, we had a power outage, and then apparently a surge when the
power went back on. It tripped and broke the dedicated 30 amp circuit
breaker which was properly sized but old. Electrician hypothesized that
the power got through the breaker, fried the motherboard of the
appliance and was kicked back by the surge suppressor of the appliance
which finished off the breaker. Who knows? We replaced the breaker. We
also replaced the motherboard which was covered by a 3 year warranty.
But the oven never worked right. Neither oven heated up right and kept
cycling on and off erratically making impossible to bake anything that
had to rise.

The appliance repair people, who I do like and trust in this case and
have known for years, say I will be throwing bad money after good to
try to fix it because they think there may be some changes in the
mother board for the newer versions, and both the temperature sensors
and thermometers would have to be replaced. I don't need advice on
repairs. I am past that.
End result is that I need to replace this oven. I may be able to claim
some on the insurance and the utility company might pick up some of the
cost.

So now I need to figure out whether to buy the same oven all over
again. My options are limited as it is only 24 inches wide. I can buy a
cheaper Maytag or GE without the convection feature which I never used
much anyway, and without hidden elements, the advantage of which
besides ease of cleaning eludes me. However with both those alternate
options, I need to do some carpentry to reduce the size of the opening
which will eat up the cost difference and maybe then some. I actually
liked the KItchen Aid but I am afraid that with all the bells and
whistles and the complex motherboard it is prone to breaking again.

Anyone want to weigh in on this? I would really appreciate it.

Mistake: I meant 40 amp circuit.

On Sun 05 Mar 2006 03:27:10p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it kbarch?

> It's a long and sorry story, but I need to replace a 24" Kichen Aid
> double convection electric wall oven that was less than 3 years old.
>
> In brief, we had a power outage, and then apparently a surge when the
> power went back on. It tripped and broke the dedicated 30 amp circuit
> breaker which was properly sized but old. Electrician hypothesized that
> the power got through the breaker, fried the motherboard of the
> appliance and was kicked back by the surge suppressor of the appliance
> which finished off the breaker. Who knows? We replaced the breaker. We
> also replaced the motherboard which was covered by a 3 year warranty.
> But the oven never worked right. Neither oven heated up right and kept
> cycling on and off erratically making impossible to bake anything that
> had to rise.

<snip>

This is probably not a good comparison, but I had something similar happen
to a large Sony console TV some years ago. The main power box down the
street was hit by lightening, which travelled to many of the houses in the
neighborhood. It blew our answering machines, cordless phones, and some PC
peripherals, though not the PCs. The television would not work at all.

We had it repaired, and were told that the main circuit board had to be
replaced, as well as several smaller boards and heat sinks. It never
worked the same again, one of the symptoms being that after an hour or so,l
it would cycle off. Perhaps a half hour later it would come back on. Most
of the onscreen features no longer worked. The set was repaired a total of
three times with no improvement

After all that, I wish we had replaced it up front.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

On 5 Mar 2006 14:27:10 -0800, "kbarch" > wrote:

>It's a long and sorry story, but I need to replace a 24" Kichen Aid
>double convection electric wall oven that was less than 3 years old.
>
>In brief, we had a power outage, and then apparently a surge when the
>power went back on.
>

Snip rest of story

>Anyone want to weigh in on this? I would really appreciate it.


This happened to me with a GE Dishwasher and the board was fried. I
was advised by the appliance repair people, GE service (by phone) and
by my electrician to get surge protection put in. If you did so, you
should have no hesitation to buy whatever brand and model you wish, as
the circuitry will be protected and not affect the appliances.

IANAE, heaven knows, but the article below mentions it, too.

Boron

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/know...387874,00.html

kbarch wrote:
> It's a long and sorry story, but I need to replace a 24" Kichen Aid
> double convection electric wall oven that was less than 3 years old.
>
> In brief, we had a power outage, and then apparently a surge when the
> power went back on.

Check with your power supplier. They may be partially or completely
responsible for the surge after the outage. You might well get your
replacement free or substantially subsidized.

Matthew

--
What if you arrived at the fountain of youth, only to find dead toddlers
floating in the pond? -- John O on AFB

Fuses do not protect electronics. Fuse blows after electronics are
damaged. Fuse is to protect humans from a now existing short circuit.
A reason for electronics damage was no 'whole house' protector with the
essential 'less than 10 foot' connection to earth. Most electrician
don't yet understand this well proven concept that was not necessary
before transistors.

More likely what happened: a transient caused oven and other
electrical damage. Transient that was not earthed at the service
entrance found a destructive path to earth via the oven. Power was then
lost. When power returned, that AC power found a now damaged oven
which blew the breaker.

Having replaced an electronics board, there should be little left to
replace. For example, the transient could have found earth via a
thermocouple which is why temperature control is inconsistent.

If the problem is not obvious, then one reason to repair is to learn
why failure happened. You must make a decision as to which is the less
risky / expensive option.

Meanwhile effective 'whole house' protector solutions are
manufactured by Siemens, GE, Square D, Intermatic, Cutler-Hammer, and
Leviton. Effective protectors are sold in Home Depot, Lowes, and most
electrical supply stores. No effective protector has been seen in
Sears, Kmart, Staples, Radio Shack, Circuit City, or Walmart. The
effective protector only makes a temporary connection to earth which is
why that short earthing connection is critical. A building that does
not meet or exceed post 1990 code reqirements would not have sufficient
earthing. Manufacturers with lesser reputations such as APC, Belkin,
and Isobar are definitely not on the list of effective solutions.

Meanwhile, above is secondary oven protection. Primary protection
must also be inspected:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

Further details are at: http://www.psihq.com/iread/strpgrnd.htm
> Ten years ago it would have been rare for anyone to talk about the
> importance of low resistance grounding and bonding except where
> mainframe computer systems, telecommunications equipment or
> military installations were being discussed. Today, we live in a world
> controlled by microprocessors so low resistance grounding is now
> critical and is a popular topic of conversation.
> The electrical grounding system in most facilities is the electrical
> service entrance ground. In the past it was often "OK" to just meet the
> minimum requirements of the National Electrical Code (NEC). Today,
> the requirements of the NEC should only be the starting point for
> grounding systems and bonding.

kbarch wrote:
> It's a long and sorry story, but I need to replace a 24" Kichen Aid
> double convection electric wall oven that was less than 3 years old.
>
> In brief, we had a power outage, and then apparently a surge when the
> power went back on. It tripped and broke the dedicated 30 amp circuit
> breaker which was properly sized but old. Electrician hypothesized that
> the power got through the breaker, fried the motherboard of the
> appliance and was kicked back by the surge suppressor of the appliance
> which finished off the breaker. Who knows? We replaced the breaker. We
> also replaced the motherboard which was covered by a 3 year warranty.
> But the oven never worked right. Neither oven heated up right and kept
> cycling on and off erratically making impossible to bake anything that
> had to rise.
> ...

kbarch wrote:
>
> It's a long and sorry story, but I need to replace a 24" Kichen Aid
> double convection electric wall oven that was less than 3 years old.
>
> In brief, we had a power outage, and then apparently a surge when the
> power went back on. It tripped and broke the dedicated 30 amp circuit
> breaker which was properly sized but old. Electrician hypothesized that
> the power got through the breaker, fried the motherboard of the
> appliance and was kicked back by the surge suppressor of the appliance
> which finished off the breaker. Who knows? We replaced the breaker. We
> also replaced the motherboard which was covered by a 3 year warranty.
> But the oven never worked right. Neither oven heated up right and kept
> cycling on and off erratically making impossible to bake anything that
> had to rise.
>
> The appliance repair people, who I do like and trust in this case and
> have known for years, say I will be throwing bad money after good to
> try to fix it because they think there may be some changes in the
> mother board for the newer versions, and both the temperature sensors
> and thermometers would have to be replaced. I don't need advice on
> repairs. I am past that.
> End result is that I need to replace this oven. I may be able to claim
> some on the insurance and the utility company might pick up some of the
> cost.
>
> So now I need to figure out whether to buy the same oven all over
> again. My options are limited as it is only 24 inches wide. I can buy a
> cheaper Maytag or GE without the convection feature which I never used
> much anyway, and without hidden elements, the advantage of which
> besides ease of cleaning eludes me. However with both those alternate
> options, I need to do some carpentry to reduce the size of the opening
> which will eat up the cost difference and maybe then some. I actually
> liked the KItchen Aid but I am afraid that with all the bells and
> whistles and the complex motherboard it is prone to breaking again.
>
> Anyone want to weigh in on this? I would really appreciate it.

Depending on where you are the power utility may be liable for the
damage if it occurred as a result of their errors when the power was
restored. Check with your neighbors and see if they had stuff blown up
as well.

I did stereo and VCR repair for a while and on several occasions
repaired equipment that the utility covered the cost on. In one case it
was due to a failed neutral connection on their lines which applied 240v
to the 120v items.

Pete C.

w_tom wrote:
> Fuses do not protect electronics.

Is there no thread you won't hijack to espouse your all or nothing
definition of protection?

Matthew

--
What if you arrived at the fountain of youth, only to find dead toddlers
floating in the pond? -- John O on AFB

There are responses that answer the OP's question and provide
solutions. And then two posts from Mathew Martin that provide no
useful information.

Matthew L. Martin wrote:
> Is there no thread you won't hijack to espouse your all or nothing
> definition of protection?
>
> Matthew

w_tom wrote:
> There are responses that answer the OP's question and provide
> solutions. And then two posts from Mathew Martin that provide no
> useful information.

So I take it that the answer is "no".

> Matthew L. Martin wrote:
>> Is there no thread you won't hijack to espouse your all or nothing
>> definition of protection?
>>
>> Matthew
>

Matthew

--
What if you arrived at the fountain of youth, only to find dead toddlers
floating in the pond? -- John O on AFB