Lots of people know lots more about knives and sharpening than I do.
They sharpen or touch up their knives with various kinds of equipment
and test them by cutting newspaper or shaving hair off their arms.

I don't shave my arms much in the kitchen, or anywhere else for that
matter. And I read the newspaper (and then crumple it up to start the
BBQ).

So when my knives don't slice as well as they usually do, I get out my
hardware store 2-sided stone, dry. 10 strokes on the medium side of
the stone on each side of each knife (pull one side, push one side).
10 more strokes on each side on the fine side of the stone. Then I
steel them (10 more strokes on each side), I clean them off, and I
slice a tomato.

One more cleaning, and back they go into the block. When all the
knives are done, I rinse the stone off and put it away for another
couple of months.

I could probably get away with less wear on my knives if I knew the
right way to check when they're ready (instead of applying 10 strokes).
But, hey, the knives (mostly Forschner and a couple of forged knives)
have lasted 20 or so years with no visible wear. And I'm gonna live
maybe another 30 years, so I'm not worried.

I do use a Sypderco Tri-Angle sharpener for the serrated bread knife.
But I think I get better, faster results with the stone on regular
knives than with the sharpener.

In article .com>,
says...
> Lots of people know lots more about knives and sharpening than I do.
> They sharpen or touch up their knives with various kinds of equipment
> and test them by cutting newspaper or shaving hair off their arms.
>
> I don't shave my arms much in the kitchen, or anywhere else for that
> matter. And I read the newspaper (and then crumple it up to start the
> BBQ).
>
> So when my knives don't slice as well as they usually do, I get out my
> hardware store 2-sided stone, dry. 10 strokes on the medium side of
> the stone on each side of each knife (pull one side, push one side).
> 10 more strokes on each side on the fine side of the stone. Then I
> steel them (10 more strokes on each side), I clean them off, and I
> slice a tomato.
>
> One more cleaning, and back they go into the block. When all the
> knives are done, I rinse the stone off and put it away for another
> couple of months.
>
> I could probably get away with less wear on my knives if I knew the
> right way to check when they're ready (instead of applying 10 strokes).
> But, hey, the knives (mostly Forschner and a couple of forged knives)
> have lasted 20 or so years with no visible wear. And I'm gonna live
> maybe another 30 years, so I'm not worried.
>
> I do use a Sypderco Tri-Angle sharpener for the serrated bread knife.
> But I think I get better, faster results with the stone on regular
> knives than with the sharpener.
>
>

I agree - the tomato test is ideal. If you can cut a 1/8" slice from an
overripe tomato then your knife is just fine.

The shaving hair from the arm test is actually not a good one and people
who use it merely demonstrate their ignorance. The requirements for
shaving are different from the requirements for cutting food.
--
Peter Aitken

Peter A wrote:

>
> I agree - the tomato test is ideal. If you can cut a 1/8" slice from an
> overripe tomato then your knife is just fine.
>
> The shaving hair from the arm test is actually not a good one and people
> who use it merely demonstrate their ignorance. The requirements for
> shaving are different from the requirements for cutting food.


Cutting paper with a knife isn't real good on the knife
according to people I've spoken to who are in the business.
I din't know if they're right or not, that's just what I was
told.


--
Steve

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Steve Calvin > wrote:

>Cutting paper with a knife isn't real good on the knife
>according to people I've spoken to who are in the business.
>I din't know if they're right or not, that's just what I was
>told.

I don't know about using a knife for paper (I've never tried), but I do
know that paper dulls shears/scissors. This is why one should never use a
sewing shear/scissor on paper.

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

"Louis Cohen" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Lots of people know lots more about knives and sharpening than I do.
> They sharpen or touch up their knives with various kinds of equipment
> and test them by cutting newspaper or shaving hair off their arms.
>
> I don't shave my arms much in the kitchen, or anywhere else for that
> matter. And I read the newspaper (and then crumple it up to start the
> BBQ).
>
> So when my knives don't slice as well as they usually do, I get out my
> hardware store 2-sided stone, dry. 10 strokes on the medium side of
> the stone on each side of each knife (pull one side, push one side).
> 10 more strokes on each side on the fine side of the stone. Then I
> steel them (10 more strokes on each side), I clean them off, and I
> slice a tomato.
>
> One more cleaning, and back they go into the block. When all the
> knives are done, I rinse the stone off and put it away for another
> couple of months.
>
> I could probably get away with less wear on my knives if I knew the
> right way to check when they're ready (instead of applying 10 strokes).
> But, hey, the knives (mostly Forschner and a couple of forged knives)
> have lasted 20 or so years with no visible wear. And I'm gonna live
> maybe another 30 years, so I'm not worried.
>
> I do use a Sypderco Tri-Angle sharpener for the serrated bread knife.
> But I think I get better, faster results with the stone on regular
> knives than with the sharpener.
>

Yes, being able to cleanly slice a ripe tomato is a good indication that a
smooth-edged blade is good to go. But, that's assuming that your neighbor
has an abundance of tomatoes or your ready for a salad! ;-) Personally, I
test on a fingernail - hold the blade at an angle on a fingernail and gently
start to slice; if it catches on the nail, it's ready. That's after
sharpening and stropping to remove the wire edge. I sharpen my knives about
every 6 months or so, unless somethin' toopid happens, on a diamond hone
system. But, I steel my knives every time they come out of the block or the
drawer - 5x's on each side, then 4, etc.

Just my 3 cents (adjusted for inflation!) ;-)

While it's possible to be too concerned with sharpness, a dull knife is more
dangerous than a sharp one. It's actually the roughness of the sharp edge
that allows you to cut a ripe tomato. That's why those ginsu knives that
they sell on tv can cut tomatoes so well, they've got serrated edges. I
find a few strokes on the stone is sufficient for my stainless blades, I
don't like the edge the steel gives them, it removes the teensy burrs and
roughness that make for quick cutting. It's sufficient to rub your thumb
across (never with) the blade to determine sharpness. If it strums like a
string, it's sharp, if it slides across without vibration, it's dull. It's
also not recommended to keep knives in a block, it's unsanitary.

-JD

"Green Mtn. Griller" > wrote in message
news:ZaEtg.3380$hb3.2116@trndny04...
>
> "Louis Cohen" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Lots of people know lots more about knives and sharpening than I do.
>> They sharpen or touch up their knives with various kinds of equipment
>> and test them by cutting newspaper or shaving hair off their arms.
>>
>> I don't shave my arms much in the kitchen, or anywhere else for that
>> matter. And I read the newspaper (and then crumple it up to start the
>> BBQ).
>>
>> So when my knives don't slice as well as they usually do, I get out my
>> hardware store 2-sided stone, dry. 10 strokes on the medium side of
>> the stone on each side of each knife (pull one side, push one side).
>> 10 more strokes on each side on the fine side of the stone. Then I
>> steel them (10 more strokes on each side), I clean them off, and I
>> slice a tomato.
>>
>> One more cleaning, and back they go into the block. When all the
>> knives are done, I rinse the stone off and put it away for another
>> couple of months.
>>
>> I could probably get away with less wear on my knives if I knew the
>> right way to check when they're ready (instead of applying 10 strokes).
>> But, hey, the knives (mostly Forschner and a couple of forged knives)
>> have lasted 20 or so years with no visible wear. And I'm gonna live
>> maybe another 30 years, so I'm not worried.
>>
>> I do use a Sypderco Tri-Angle sharpener for the serrated bread knife.
>> But I think I get better, faster results with the stone on regular
>> knives than with the sharpener.
>>
>
> Yes, being able to cleanly slice a ripe tomato is a good indication that a
> smooth-edged blade is good to go. But, that's assuming that your neighbor
> has an abundance of tomatoes or your ready for a salad! ;-) Personally,
> I test on a fingernail - hold the blade at an angle on a fingernail and
> gently start to slice; if it catches on the nail, it's ready. That's
> after sharpening and stropping to remove the wire edge. I sharpen my
> knives about every 6 months or so, unless somethin' toopid happens, on a
> diamond hone system. But, I steel my knives every time they come out of
> the block or the drawer - 5x's on each side, then 4, etc.
>
> Just my 3 cents (adjusted for inflation!) ;-)
>



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I also like the tomato for testing knife sharpness. I sharpen mine as needed
with waterstones ranging in grits from 220 to 10000. I also use HandAmerica
leather strop treated with Chromium Oxide and finish on untreated leather
after using the knife. I no longer use steel on my knives since I switched
to Japanese knives.

--

Joe Cilinceon

In article >, says...

> It's
> also not recommended to keep knives in a block, it's unsanitary.
>

Where did you get this bizarre notion? Are you in the habit of putting
unwashed knives back in the block?


--
Peter Aitken

I'm a food hygienist.

-JD

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, says...
>
>> It's
>> also not recommended to keep knives in a block, it's unsanitary.
>>
>
> Where did you get this bizarre notion? Are you in the habit of putting
> unwashed knives back in the block?
>
>
> --
> Peter Aitken



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Then I take it you're not a knife hygienist?

-- Larry

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:38:18 -0400, "John D" > wrote:

>I'm a food hygienist.
>
>-JD
>
>"Peter A" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >, says...
>>
>>> It's
>>> also not recommended to keep knives in a block, it's unsanitary.
>>>
>>
>> Where did you get this bizarre notion? Are you in the habit of putting
>> unwashed knives back in the block?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter Aitken
>
>
>
>----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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>----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:54:36 GMT, Peter A >
wrote:

>> It's
>> also not recommended to keep knives in a block, it's unsanitary.
>>
>
>Where did you get this bizarre notion? Are you in the habit of putting
>unwashed knives back in the block?

Peter...I guessing that they keep them in a scabbard on their belt.
vbg

In article >, says...
> I'm a food hygienist.
>
> -JD
>
> "Peter A" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, says...
> >
> >> It's
> >> also not recommended to keep knives in a block, it's unsanitary.
> >>
> >
> > Where did you get this bizarre notion? Are you in the habit of putting
> > unwashed knives back in the block?
> >
>
>

That does not answer my question.

Also - since you obviously do not know - replies are supposed to go at
the bottom of the quoted message that you are replying to, not at the
top.

--
Peter Aitken

John D wrote:

> "Peter A" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>In article >, says...
>>
>>
>>>It's
>>>also not recommended to keep knives in a block, it's unsanitary.
>>>
>>
>>Where did you get this bizarre notion? Are you in the habit of putting
>>unwashed knives back in the block?
>>
>>
>>--
>>Peter Aitken

*top posting corrected

> I'm a food hygienist.
>
> -JD
>

Well, obviously they need to do more research. Most everyone
I know has been using blocks for many, many years. No problem.

It's like anything else, sooner or later something is going
to happen to say "this is bad" but the majority of the time
there are no problems with "whatever". Kinda like the report
that came out quite a few years ago saying that you
shouldn't eat bacon and drink coffee at the same sitting or
you'll get cancer, eggs are bad... no no wait.... eggs are
good... they just really haven't a clue in most cases.

I quit listening to the bunk many years ago and don't worry
about it. From all of the "you shouldn't do thats" out there
today it's a wonder that our ancestors survived long enough
to even have us.

--
Steve

In article >,
says...
> In article >, says...
>
> > It's
> > also not recommended to keep knives in a block, it's unsanitary.
> >
>
> Where did you get this bizarre notion? Are you in the habit of putting
> unwashed knives back in the block?
>
>
>

Probably not a good idea to put a wet knife into the block. That
moisture transfers to the wood and sets up shop for all sorts of little
nasties.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:22:27 -0400, T > wrote:

>Probably not a good idea to put a wet knife into the block. That
>moisture transfers to the wood and sets up shop for all sorts of little
>nasties.

Not in wood. Wood has anti-bacterial properties.

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

This is a fallacy. Wood does not have anti-bacterial properties. The
microorganisms do not easily swab /off/ of dry, non-oily wood, but they're
still there. The possibility that the block could be contaminated with a
food allergen is another consideration. Perhaps no one in your household
will react, but you never know about guests.

Putting knives in "blocks" ie: wooden or plastic slots in holders that do
not come apart for cleaning, is absolutely forbidden in commercial kitchens.
If I were to be inspecting a restaurant or food premise that stored their
knives in such a manner, I would be obliged by the provincial health code to
write them up.

Next time you're in a food premise, observe how they store their knives:
usually in an open-air holder. Many cooks bring their own knives with them
in a washable fabric folio.

For home use, you're probably non going to contract a food-borne illness
from a block, as long as you're sure your knives are clean every time they
go in. The precautionary principle applies however because it's impossible
to clean the inside of a knife block. You may be extremely careful about
cleaning your knives, but eventually, it's going to get dirty in there, and
some day your sister's kid might come by and stick the peanut butter knife
in there without you knowing it. It's better if the slots go all the way
through, since this keeps dust and insects and stuff from accumulating
inside. Just the same, though: It's not recommended. Better to keep them
in a clean drawer, handles out. Best to buy a hanger.

-JD


"Don Wiss" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:22:27 -0400, T > wrote:
>
>>Probably not a good idea to put a wet knife into the block. That
>>moisture transfers to the wood and sets up shop for all sorts of little
>>nasties.
>
> Not in wood. Wood has anti-bacterial properties.
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).



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In article >, says...

Reply at the bottom where it belongs.

> This is a fallacy. Wood does not have anti-bacterial properties. The
> microorganisms do not easily swab /off/ of dry, non-oily wood, but they're
> still there. The possibility that the block could be contaminated with a
> food allergen is another consideration. Perhaps no one in your household
> will react, but you never know about guests.
>
> Putting knives in "blocks" ie: wooden or plastic slots in holders that do
> not come apart for cleaning, is absolutely forbidden in commercial kitchens.
> If I were to be inspecting a restaurant or food premise that stored their
> knives in such a manner, I would be obliged by the provincial health code to
> write them up.
>
> Next time you're in a food premise, observe how they store their knives:
> usually in an open-air holder. Many cooks bring their own knives with them
> in a washable fabric folio.
>
> For home use, you're probably non going to contract a food-borne illness
> from a block, as long as you're sure your knives are clean every time they
> go in. The precautionary principle applies however because it's impossible
> to clean the inside of a knife block. You may be extremely careful about
> cleaning your knives, but eventually, it's going to get dirty in there, and
> some day your sister's kid might come by and stick the peanut butter knife
> in there without you knowing it. It's better if the slots go all the way
> through, since this keeps dust and insects and stuff from accumulating
> inside. Just the same, though: It's not recommended. Better to keep them
> in a clean drawer, handles out. Best to buy a hanger.
>
> -JD
>

Applying the standards of commercial kitchens to a home kitchen is just
plain silly. Shall I wear a hair net? You fret and worry about problems
that could, in theory, happen - but you do not provide even a single
instance of them actually happening. Based on your worst case approach,
one could make a case for sterilizing all kitchen utensils, wiping all
counters with bleach twice a day, never having any potential allergen in
the kitchen, and hiding under the bed all day "just in case."

Jeez, stop worrying and enjoy life!

--
Peter

John D wrote:

>
> Putting knives in "blocks" ie: wooden or plastic slots in holders that do
> not come apart for cleaning, is absolutely forbidden in commercial kitchens.

I hadn't thought of that but it makes a lot of sense. If you can't see
it or clean it, better not store cooking utensils there. It's not a
great risk for a home kitchen, but it wouldn't hurt.

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:35:05 GMT, Peter A >
wrote:

> Based on your worst case approach,
>one could make a case for sterilizing all kitchen utensils, wiping all
>counters with bleach twice a day, never having any potential allergen in
>the kitchen, and hiding under the bed all day "just in case."

Peter..you forgot about having ALL appliances on WHEELS so they can
be rolled out and hot bleach water can be applied to any surface,
either vertical or horizontal. You don't do this daily?

I have a twenty year old knife block. We are still happy and
healthy.

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:35:05 GMT, Peter A >
wrote:

>Applying the standards of commercial kitchens to a home kitchen is just
>plain silly. Shall I wear a hair net? You fret and worry about problems
>that could, in theory, happen - but you do not provide even a single
>instance of them actually happening. Based on your worst case approach,
>one could make a case for sterilizing all kitchen utensils, wiping all
>counters with bleach twice a day, never having any potential allergen in
>the kitchen, and hiding under the bed all day "just in case."
>
>Jeez, stop worrying and enjoy life!

Standing applause!

------------
There are no atheists in foxholes
or in Fenway Park in an extra inning
game.
____

Cape Cod Bob

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