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Diabetic (alt.food.diabetic) This group is for the discussion of controlled-portion eating plans for the dietary management of diabetes. |
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I like some cheesecakes, but I am picky. Don't necessarily need a crust,
but I hate sour cream and I hate a really creamy, whipped consistency to the cake. I also only like cherry topping on my cheesecake. So I was wondering if anyone has had success at making some sort of a cream cheese thing with sugar free cherry Jell-O? I was thinking along the lines of mixing some sweetener in the cream cheese and then somehow combining it with the Jell-O. But I'm also thinking this might just make a mucky mess. My Mom used to make a salad using a layer of lime Jell-O with pineapple or pears in it, topped with a layer of lemon Jell-O that had been whipped with either cream cheese or cottage cheese. I liked this, but there's that pesky bottom layer with fruit in it that I don't want for my cheesecake-like thingie. Does anyone have any suggestions? -- Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ |
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In article >, "Julie Bove"
> writes: >I like some cheesecakes, but I am picky. Don't necessarily need a crust, >but I hate sour cream and I hate a really creamy, whipped consistency to the >cake. I also only like cherry topping on my cheesecake. So I was wondering >if anyone has had success at making some sort of a cream cheese thing with >sugar free cherry Jell-O? I was thinking along the lines of mixing some >sweetener in the cream cheese and then somehow combining it with the Jell-O. >But I'm also thinking this might just make a mucky mess. Julie, see if you can get a small bottle of Davinci Sugar Free Cherry syrup, sweetened with splenda.. that would work for the cherry topping.. As always YMMV and this is JMO Jeanne Type 2 Diagnosed 05/28/02 189/154/120 |
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On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:20:08 -0500, "Julie Bove" >
wrote: >I like some cheesecakes, but I am picky. Don't necessarily need a crust, >but I hate sour cream and I hate a really creamy, whipped consistency to the >cake. You hate sour cream cooking into things? Or you hate sour cream as a topping on a cheese cake? And I'm not sure what consistency you're looking for. A dense, heavy cheesecake that's rich and thick? Like NY style? -- Siobhan Perricone "Who would have thought that a bad Austrian artist who's obsessed with the human physical ideal could assemble such a rabid political following?" - www.theonion.com |
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>I've seen the recipe before, but I can't stand even a tiny bit of sour cream
>in my food. Do you like yogurt? If so, try substituting Yogurt for sour cream. The cherry topping is a different story tho. You could try melting some "sugar free" cherry preserves and use that for a topping. I use Polaners All Fruit in small amounts because I hate sugar free preserves. Melting it makes it go a bit farther. All the low carb cheesecake recipes that I've seen turn out like jello or a mousse. If you find one that is heavy and thick. Let me know. Bill |
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![]() "Julie Bove" > wrote in message ... > I like some cheesecakes, but I am picky. Don't necessarily need a crust, > but I hate sour cream and I hate a really creamy, whipped consistency to the > cake. I also only like cherry topping on my cheesecake. So I was wondering > if anyone has had success at making some sort of a cream cheese thing with > sugar free cherry Jell-O? I was thinking along the lines of mixing some > sweetener in the cream cheese and then somehow combining it with the Jell-O. > But I'm also thinking this might just make a mucky mess. > > My Mom used to make a salad using a layer of lime Jell-O with pineapple or > pears in it, topped with a layer of lemon Jell-O that had been whipped with > either cream cheese or cottage cheese. I liked this, but there's that pesky > bottom layer with fruit in it that I don't want for my cheesecake-like > thingie. > > Does anyone have any suggestions? > -- > Type 2 > http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ > > Julie, here's a sugar-free, carb-friendly cheesecake I developed from a Junior's Cheesecake recipe. You can cut down the carbs even more by using full-fat or reduced fat Philadelphia cream cheese (or use half full/reduced-fat, half fat-free). I chose to use all fat-free for this recipe simply because I'm trying to cut down on saturated fats. The more fat in the recipe, the less the top will crack. If you use all fat-free, the top will crack and look "alligatored", but it won't affect the taste in the slightest, and a topping would cover it up anyway. (I did try using a water bath while the cheesecake was baking to see if it would cut down on the cracking, but there was no difference.) As for the cherry topping: Could you use sugar-free cherry jam or preserves, or something like Comstock Lite Cherry Pie Filling? True, they'll add some carbs, but not as many as the regular sweet stuff. I hope this is helpful to you. I know what it's like to miss a favorite dish! Karen Type 2 CHEESECAKE 1 cup Splenda granular (or 24 packets) (do not use Equal or other aspartame sweetener, as the sweetness breaks down and becomes bitter in the baking process) 2 tablespoons sifted cornstarch 4 8-oz. packages Philadelphia fat-free cream cheese, softened (do not use store brand, as the taste and texture are inferior) 1 large egg 1/2 cup fat-free half and half (adds a trivial amount of sugar; may use regular half & half or heavy cream instead if you prefer) 1 teaspoon vanilla extract 1. Preheat the oven to 350°. Generously butter the bottom and sides of a 8- or 9-inch springform pan. 2. In a large bowl, combine the Splenda and the cornstarch. Beat in the cream cheese. Beat in the egg. Slowly drizzle in the half and half, beating constantly. Add the vanilla and stir well. Pour (spread) the mixture into the prepared pan. Bake until the top is golden, 45 to 55 min. (Top will crack, but this doesn't affect taste or texture.) Cool in the pan on a wire rack for 3 hrs. Remove springform collar; refrigerate. Serves 8 very generously. Approx. 144 calories and 12 grams of carbohydrate per serving. |
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Karen wrote:
> > "Julie Bove" > wrote in message > ... > > I like some cheesecakes, but I am picky. Don't necessarily need a crust, > > but I hate sour cream and I hate a really creamy, whipped consistency to > the > > cake. I also only like cherry topping on my cheesecake. So I was > wondering > > if anyone has had success at making some sort of a cream cheese thing with > > sugar free cherry Jell-O? I was thinking along the lines of mixing some > > sweetener in the cream cheese and then somehow combining it with the > Jell-O. > > But I'm also thinking this might just make a mucky mess. > > > > My Mom used to make a salad using a layer of lime Jell-O with pineapple or > > pears in it, topped with a layer of lemon Jell-O that had been whipped > with > > either cream cheese or cottage cheese. I liked this, but there's that > pesky > > bottom layer with fruit in it that I don't want for my cheesecake-like > > thingie. > > > > Does anyone have any suggestions? > > -- > > Type 2 > > http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ > > > > > > Julie, here's a sugar-free, carb-friendly cheesecake I developed from a > Junior's Cheesecake recipe. You can cut down the carbs even more by using > full-fat or reduced fat Philadelphia cream cheese (or use half > full/reduced-fat, half fat-free). I chose to use all fat-free for this > recipe simply because I'm trying to cut down on saturated fats. The more > fat in the recipe, the less the top will crack. If you use all fat-free, > the top will crack and look "alligatored", but it won't affect the taste in > the slightest, and a topping would cover it up anyway. (I did try using a > water bath while the cheesecake was baking to see if it would cut down on > the cracking, but there was no difference.) > > As for the cherry topping: Could you use sugar-free cherry jam or > preserves, or something like Comstock Lite Cherry Pie Filling? True, > they'll add some carbs, but not as many as the regular sweet stuff. > > I hope this is helpful to you. I know what it's like to miss a favorite > dish! > > Karen > Type 2 > > CHEESECAKE > > 1 cup Splenda granular (or 24 packets) (do not use Equal or other aspartame > sweetener, as the sweetness breaks down and becomes bitter in the baking > process) > 2 tablespoons sifted cornstarch > 4 8-oz. packages Philadelphia fat-free cream cheese, softened (do not use > store brand, as the taste and texture are inferior) > 1 large egg > 1/2 cup fat-free half and half (adds a trivial amount of sugar; may use > regular half & half or heavy cream instead if you prefer) > 1 teaspoon vanilla extract > > 1. Preheat the oven to 350°. Generously butter the bottom and sides of a 8- > or 9-inch springform pan. > > 2. In a large bowl, combine the Splenda and the cornstarch. Beat in the > cream cheese. Beat in the egg. Slowly drizzle in the half and half, beating > constantly. Add the vanilla and stir well. Pour (spread) the mixture into > the prepared pan. Bake until the top is golden, 45 to 55 min. (Top will > crack, but this doesn't affect taste or texture.) Cool in the pan on a wire > rack for 3 hrs. Remove springform collar; refrigerate. > > Serves 8 very generously. > > Approx. 144 calories and 12 grams of carbohydrate per serving. From a Canadian... What the heck is fat free half and half? That's an oxymoron! Vicki |
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![]() "Vicki Beausoleil" > wrote in message ... .. <snip> > From a Canadian... > > What the heck is fat free half and half? That's an oxymoron! > > Vicki I did a double-take when I saw "fat-free" half and half (generic store brand) in our grocery store, but there it was! Land O Lakes also has fat-free half and half; don't know if that's available in your area. Here's a link to LOL's web site with a news release about their FF half and half, which debuted in March: http://www.landolakesinc.com/OurComp...?ArticleID=159 Your grocery store may be able to special-order the FF half and half if you're interested. Karen Type 2 |
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![]() "Karen" > wrote in message news:uc5vb.256856$Tr4.803363@attbi_s03... > Julie, here's a sugar-free, carb-friendly cheesecake I developed from a > Junior's Cheesecake recipe. You can cut down the carbs even more by using > full-fat or reduced fat Philadelphia cream cheese (or use half > full/reduced-fat, half fat-free). I chose to use all fat-free for this > recipe simply because I'm trying to cut down on saturated fats. The more > fat in the recipe, the less the top will crack. If you use all fat-free, > the top will crack and look "alligatored", but it won't affect the taste in > the slightest, and a topping would cover it up anyway. (I did try using a > water bath while the cheesecake was baking to see if it would cut down on > the cracking, but there was no difference.) > > As for the cherry topping: Could you use sugar-free cherry jam or > preserves, or something like Comstock Lite Cherry Pie Filling? True, > they'll add some carbs, but not as many as the regular sweet stuff. <snip> Thanks! But that's a lot more carbs than I'm willing to eat in a dessert. And I can't do the cherries. That's why I was thinking along the lines of Jell-O and cream cheese because it wouldn't be very much in the way of carbs. -- Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ |
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![]() "Julie Bove" > wrote in message ... > Thanks! But that's a lot more carbs than I'm willing to eat in a dessert. > And I can't do the cherries. That's why I was thinking along the lines of > Jell-O and cream cheese because it wouldn't be very much in the way of > carbs. > > -- > Type 2 > http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ > As I said, using the full-fat stuff will greatly reduce the carbs. And 1/8th of this cheesecake is a *very* generous serving (I often cut a slice in half, as it's really rich). Using full-fat stuff and cutting the serving size to 1/16th, the carb count would go like this: Entire cheesecake: 50 carbs 16 servings at 3.1 carbs per slice Steel's Sour Cherry Jam with no sugar added is 1.5 carbs per tablespoon. Here's a link to nutritional info on their products: http://www.thorpfruit.com/?pageid=2955 Or you could always spread a little prepared sugar-free Jell-O on top of the cheesecake; it would at least give you the cherry flavor. Innovation is the name of the game with diabetics...and I've learned to innovate a lot since my diagnosis last year! Karen Type 2 |
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On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:07:54 -0500, Vicki Beausoleil
> wrote: >A NY style cheesecakes has its particular texture because of added >flour. I've never seen a NY style cheesecake recipe that adds flour to the batter at all. Not saying they don't exist, just that I don't think that's authentic. The recipe I've posted here before is from the Marx Brothers Deli in NYC. No flour. *shrug* YMMV. -- Siobhan Perricone "Who would have thought that a bad Austrian artist who's obsessed with the human physical ideal could assemble such a rabid political following?" - www.theonion.com |
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On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:47:35 -0500, "Julie Bove" >
wrote: >Thanks! But that's a lot more carbs than I'm willing to eat in a dessert. >And I can't do the cherries. That's why I was thinking along the lines of >Jell-O and cream cheese because it wouldn't be very much in the way of >carbs. Ok, so here's my recipe only with yogurt instead of sour cream. 1/16th of it is 7 carbs, if you add on top 1/3 cup of the Lucky Leaf no sugar added cherry pie filling, that adds another 8 carbs, making the whole thing 15 carbs for a slice of cherry cheesecake. Siobhan's Version of Marx Brothers Cheesecake 1/4 cup plus 2 tbsp butter, room temperature 2.5 cups *finely* ground nuts (I use walnuts, their effective carbs are close enough to nil so as not to count) Toasted before grinding if you prefer the flavour 6 8-ounce packages cream cheese, room temperature (I didn't say it was low fat, nonfat cream cheese doesn't bake up as nicely and has more carbs) 2 cups plus 2 tbsp Splenda 4 large eggs and 1 large egg yolk 1 tbsp vanilla extract (you can use 2 tsp if you prefer, I like my vanilla strong) 1/2 cup yogurt Preheat oven to 250 degrees. Rub 2 tbsp butter on bottom and sides of 10 inch springform pan (a 9 inch pan works fine too) with 3 inch high sides. Take some of the ground nuts and "dust" the bottom and sides of the pan (like you would with flour). Mix 2 tbsp Splenda in with the rest of the nuts. Mix the rest of the butter with the rest of the nuts until crumbly, and press the nut mixture into the *bottom* of the pan and set aside. Beat cream cheese in large bowl until softened, add eggs and yolk, then beat until thoroughly mixed. Add Splenda one cup at a time (mixing between additions), mix in vanilla, then set to high and beat until smooth and a little fluffy. FOLD in yogurt. Spread batter in prepared pan and bake in preheated oven (DO NOT OPEN THE OVEN DOOR DURING BAKING) until a *knife* inserted 2 inches from the center comes out clean (this takes 1.5 hours). Turn off the oven and leave the cheesecake in the oven for another 20 minutes. Take the cheesecake from the oven and allow to cool completely on the counter before covering and putting in the fridge over night. You can cut this into 8ths, but that's a BIG piece of cheesecake. Better to cut it into 16ths because it's so rich and dense. A 16th of this cake only has roughly 7 carbs, an 8th is roughly 14 carbs (allowing for rounding error). -- Siobhan Perricone "Who would have thought that a bad Austrian artist who's obsessed with the human physical ideal could assemble such a rabid political following?" - www.theonion.com |
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In article >,
Siobhan Perricone > wrote: > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:07:54 -0500, Vicki Beausoleil > > wrote: > > > >A NY style cheesecakes has its particular texture because of added > >flour. > > I've never seen a NY style cheesecake recipe that adds flour to the batter > at all. Not saying they don't exist, just that I don't think that's > authentic. The recipe I've posted here before is from the Marx Brothers > Deli in NYC. No flour. *shrug* YMMV. I've always viewed the difference between NY style cheesecake and non-NY style as being that the NY style has more cream cheese and is baked, making it heavier; the other has gelatin, and is lighter in texture. But, no, I've never seen a recipe with flour. I can imagine that someone might have made one, in an effort to defat the recipe; 4 8 oz bricks of full-fat cream cheese is a *lot*. -- AF "Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team." --artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball |
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![]() "Siobhan Perricone" > wrote in message ... > On 20 Nov 2003 15:19:55 GMT, erospam (Wmkcross) wrote: > > >>I've seen the recipe before, but I can't stand even a tiny bit of sour cream > >>in my food. > > > >Do you like yogurt? If so, try substituting Yogurt for sour cream. > > OOOoh yeah, that should work just fine! That's a GREAT thought! Though I'd > make sure it was a good, real yogurt that wasn't thickened with gums just > to be sure it'd bake up right. > > As for the cherry stuff, there's a canned cherry pie filling made with > Splenda.... Lucky leaf no sugar added cherry pie filling. The whole twenty > ounce can of it has only around 56 grams of carbs. So you can use that on > top of a my low carb Marx Brothers Cheesecake (made with yogurt instead of > sour cream) with NO problem. ![]() Yogurt and sour cream are equally yucky in my book and I really can't eat the cherries. -- Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ |
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![]() "Karen" > wrote in message news:lRevb.62674$Dw6.334872@attbi_s02... > As I said, using the full-fat stuff will greatly reduce the carbs. And > 1/8th of this cheesecake is a *very* generous serving (I often cut a slice > in half, as it's really rich). Using full-fat stuff and cutting the serving > size to 1/16th, the carb count would go like this: > > Entire cheesecake: 50 carbs > 16 servings at 3.1 carbs per slice I can't imagine cutting a cheesecake into 16 pieces. If it were a good cheesecake, my husband would easily eat at least half of it in one sitting. He has been known to eat an entire cheesecake. Just him and a fork. > > Steel's Sour Cherry Jam with no sugar added is 1.5 carbs per tablespoon. > Here's a link to nutritional info on their products: > http://www.thorpfruit.com/?pageid=2955 Or you could always spread a little > prepared sugar-free Jell-O on top of the cheesecake; it would at least give > you the cherry flavor. > > Innovation is the name of the game with diabetics...and I've learned to > innovate a lot since my diagnosis last year! I've tried few products from Steel's and didn't care for them. Don't they use fructose? -- Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ |
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![]() "Siobhan Perricone" > wrote in message ... > Ok, so here's my recipe only with yogurt instead of sour cream. 1/16th of > it is 7 carbs, if you add on top 1/3 cup of the Lucky Leaf no sugar added > cherry pie filling, that adds another 8 carbs, making the whole thing 15 > carbs for a slice of cherry cheesecake. Sorry, that wouldn't work for me either. I hate yogurt and don't want the cherries. I like the taste, but they make me sick. <snip> > A 16th of this cake only has roughly 7 carbs, an 8th is roughly 14 carbs > (allowing for rounding error). Still too many carbs for me. I don't do low carb, but I refuse to eat that many carbs in a dessert. Thanks, though! -- Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ |
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Alice Faber wrote:
> > In article >, > Siobhan Perricone > wrote: > > > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:07:54 -0500, Vicki Beausoleil > > > wrote: > > > > > > >A NY style cheesecakes has its particular texture because of added > > >flour. > > > > I've never seen a NY style cheesecake recipe that adds flour to the batter > > at all. Not saying they don't exist, just that I don't think that's > > authentic. The recipe I've posted here before is from the Marx Brothers > > Deli in NYC. No flour. *shrug* YMMV. > > I've always viewed the difference between NY style cheesecake and non-NY > style as being that the NY style has more cream cheese and is baked, > making it heavier; the other has gelatin, and is lighter in texture. > But, no, I've never seen a recipe with flour. I can imagine that someone > might have made one, in an effort to defat the recipe; 4 8 oz bricks of > full-fat cream cheese is a *lot*. > > -- > AF > "Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team." > --artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball Well, Ok, I'm not a New Yorker and really have never tasted a NY style cheesecake in New York. :-) I just went by what I've been told by professional bakers with a heck of a lot more experience than me. I've spent more time baking donuts on the job than anything else, and I don't have the generalized knowledge of a patisserie certification. The coolest thing about cheesecakes is there's endless room for experimentation. From 'More Splendid Desserts' by Jennifer Eloff (my Splenda dessert bible) Her suggestions for a firmer cheesecake: 1) Use yogurt cheese instead of skim milk yogurt. At the very least pour off any liquid before measuring the yogurt. 2) Increase any flour called for in the recipe by 2 tablespoons. Conversely, omitting flour from the recipe will result in a smoother, creamier, less firm result. 3) Use higher fat ingredients. The cheesecake recipes in her 2 cookbooks have come out quite satisfactory, with the exception of one. The chocolate marble cheesecake from the first book 'Splendid Desserts' I found to be bland and tasteless. There was a noticeable 'flouriness' in the chocolate part from the cocoa. The recipes from the second book are better. Vicki |
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![]() "Vicki Beausoleil" > wrote in message ... > Well, Ok, I'm not a New Yorker and really have never tasted a NY style > cheesecake in New York. :-) I just went by what I've been told by > professional bakers with a heck of a lot more experience than me. I've > spent more time baking donuts on the job than anything else, and I don't > have the generalized knowledge of a patisserie certification. > The coolest thing about cheesecakes is there's endless room for > experimentation. > > From 'More Splendid Desserts' by Jennifer Eloff (my Splenda dessert > bible) > Her suggestions for a firmer cheesecake: > > 1) Use yogurt cheese instead of skim milk yogurt. At the very least pour > off any liquid before measuring the yogurt. > > 2) Increase any flour called for in the recipe by 2 tablespoons. > Conversely, omitting flour from the recipe will result in a smoother, > creamier, less firm result. > > 3) Use higher fat ingredients. > > The cheesecake recipes in her 2 cookbooks have come out quite > satisfactory, with the exception of one. The chocolate marble cheesecake > from the first book 'Splendid Desserts' I found to be bland and > tasteless. There was a noticeable 'flouriness' in the chocolate part > from the cocoa. The recipes from the second book are better. I believe you are right. I just pulled up a recipe at random and it does indeed include flour. Here it is: http://food.epicurious.com/run/recip...2&printer=true I couldn't remember because it has been many years since I've made a cheesecake from scratch. I could have sworn that the recipe I used had flour in it, but I no longer have the recipe. -- Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ |
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On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:21:14 -0500, "Julie Bove" >
wrote: Well, you don't like the yogurt either, so I'm guessing it's the tang you don't like. >> A 16th of this cake only has roughly 7 carbs, an 8th is roughly 14 carbs >> (allowing for rounding error). > >Still too many carbs for me. I don't do low carb, but I refuse to eat that >many carbs in a dessert. Thanks, though! Ahhhh. I love dessert. I tend to eat a very low carb dinner (broiled steak, chops, or chicken and salad has practically no carbs to worry about) so I can have a nice dessert. Not saying that's what you should do! Just observing how interesting it is how different we all are. I still think it's something the nutritionists and docs don't quite *get*. -- Siobhan Perricone "Who would have thought that a bad Austrian artist who's obsessed with the human physical ideal could assemble such a rabid political following?" - www.theonion.com |
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On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:19:04 -0500, "Julie Bove" >
wrote: >> Entire cheesecake: 50 carbs >> 16 servings at 3.1 carbs per slice > >I can't imagine cutting a cheesecake into 16 pieces. If it were a good >cheesecake, my husband would easily eat at least half of it in one sitting. >He has been known to eat an entire cheesecake. Just him and a fork. LOL. My husband can do this, too. He LOVES cheesecake. >I've tried few products from Steel's and didn't care for them. Don't they >use fructose? I'm pretty sure they use Splenda (too lazy to go to the fridge and check). But they also have real fruit, so it's not no carb, just a lot lower than "real" jam. They do have a slightly bitter aftertaste, but sometimes I really crave a peanut butter and jam sandwich (of course, followed by a good brisk 20 minute walk ![]() -- Siobhan Perricone "Who would have thought that a bad Austrian artist who's obsessed with the human physical ideal could assemble such a rabid political following?" - www.theonion.com |
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![]() "Siobhan Perricone" > wrote in message ... <snip> > Ahhhh. I love dessert. I tend to eat a very low carb dinner (broiled steak, > chops, or chicken and salad has practically no carbs to worry about) so I > can have a nice dessert. Not saying that's what you should do! Just > observing how interesting it is how different we all are. I still think > it's something the nutritionists and docs don't quite *get*. I very rarely eat dessert. My parents were perpetual dieters when I was growing up, so if we did have dessert it was usually fruit or some sort of packaged cookies. For some reason Weight Watchers went on a Nilla Wafers kick. Yuck! I don't like meat either. But I do love potatoes and dried beans. Take those things away from me and I won't be very happy! -- Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ |
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![]() "Julie Bove" > wrote in message ... 1st attempt at faux cheesecake. I used 8 oz. of cream cheese, softened and blended with 3 little packets of sweetener. I then whipped this into some sugar free cherry Jell-O that I made with 1 1/2 c. (total) of water and a squirt of lemon juice. I used the electric mixer and whipped it well. Added the cream cheese right after I added the cold water. The final result looks a bit like raspberry sherbet and has a slightly creamy texture, but no too creamy for me. It actually tastes pretty much like cherry cheesecake, but it's a bit heavy on the cherry flavor. I think next time I will try making two layers, this time using lemon Jell-O for the bottom layer and cherry for the top, adding cream cheese to both and omitting the lemon juice on the lemon layer. -- Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ |
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