"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article et>,
> "rick etter" > wrote:
>
>> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article et>,
>> > "rick etter" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > In article . net>,
>> >> > "rick etter" > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> > In article et>,
>> >> >> > "rick etter" > wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> >> >> >> ...
>> >> >> >> > In article >,
>> >> >> >> > usual suspect > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> This ignores the fact that animals die in the course of
>> >> >> >> >> "vegan"
>> >> >> >> >> food
>> >> >> >> >> production, too. Those deaths -- through poisoning,
>> >> >> >> >> mutilation,
>> >> >> >> >> drowning, predation, etc. -- are significantly more "cruel"
>> >> >> >> >> than
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> humane slaughter which they object.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Killed, of course, by meat eaters.
>> >> >> >> =================
>> >> >> >> You have proof of this bit of delusional insight, fool? Try to
>> >> >> >> back
>> >> >> >> it
>> >> >> >> up.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > What is the difficulty? People who raise and kill pigs eat pork
>> >> >> > products. People who raise and kill cows eat beef products.
>> >> >> > People
>> >> >> > who
>> >> >> > raise and kill seafood eat fish products. What is the difficulty
>> >> >> > here,
>> >> >> > usual?
>> >> >> ================================
>> >> >> Don't know who you're talking to even anymore, eh fool? Try
>> >> >> reading
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> comprehension, for a chnage. The comment was about those people
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> produce food for vegans. You remember them, don't you? They're
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> loons
>> >> >> we've been talking about for weeks now. Now, you like to spew
>> >> >> about
>> >> >> those
>> >> >> that produce beef, pork, and seafood. Seems to me that none of
>> >> >> those
>> >> >> are
>> >> >> vegan foods, are they?
>> >> >
>> >> > Same group. Who does produce food for vegans.
>> >> ======================
>> >> Not the same ones that rasie meat, fool.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Who are the rice growers
>> >> > of the world? Meat eater, or vegan?
>> >> =====================
>> >> Have you checked? Prove that a fair number of rice growers
>> >> world-wide
>> >> are
>> >> not vegan.
>> >>
>> >> Who are the people who use the
>> >> > products and chemicals that you so kindly point out are responsible
>> >> > (oops, there's that word) for the collateral death of animals.
>> >> ==========================
>> >> Have you checked? Prove that a fair number of organic growers are not
>> >> vegan.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Who is
>> >> > that is killing the rodents, amphibians and such -- the meat eater
>> >> > or
>> >> > the vegan. Farmers and growers are the killers.
>> >> ===================
>> >> Exactly. But that doesn't mean that all of them are meat-eaters, now
>> >> does
>> >> it, fool?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Some of us tolerate
>> >> > their violence in the world.
>> >> =======================
>> >> And are culpable for it. Thanks for pointing that out, pansy-boy....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> Your request for proof suggests that the typical grower and
>> >> >> > killer of animals would be vegan and that's just being silly on
>> >> >> > your
>> >> >> > part.
>> >> >> =======================
>> >> >> Why fool? Are you really this clueless? Oh wait, you've already
>> >> >> proven
>> >> >> that, haven't you. Try checking out any number of growers that
>> >> >> claim
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> 'organic'. I'd bet more than a few would be vegan, yet their
>> >> >> farming
>> >> >> will
>> >> >> still cause animals to die.
>> >> >
>> >> > AH, a few might be vegan. Shall we do a comparison of farms operated
>> >> > by
>> >> > vegans and meat eaters and killers. it's always easy and
>> >> > intellectually
>> >> > dishonest to generalize to avoid reality.
>> >> ==============================
>> >> ROTFLMAO What a hoot!! It was you that generalized all growers, you
>> >> ignorant fool! Man, what a maroon... Besides, if you could read for
>> >> comprhension, you'd see that this discussion was about 'vegan' food!
>> >> Not
>> >> meats. Of course, we know that your comprehension is sorely lacking.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> Occam's Razor: what is more likely that those raise and kill
>> >> >> > animals are vegan or meat eater?
>> >> >> ============================
>> >> >> And again, we aren't talking here about meat, fool. Those are
>> >> >> hardly
>> >> >> vegan
>> >> >> foods.
>> >> >
>> >> > Do pay attention. Dutch specifically spoke to raising livestock.
>> >> =====================
>> >> Not at the top of this thread were I responded fool. Your response
>> >> was
>> >> to
>> >> Usual, and the discussion was not about livestock. Need a refresher,
>> >> fool?
>> >> try reading for comprehension.
>> >> quoted text....
>> >> Usual>>> > This ignores the fact that animals die in the course of
>> >> "vegan"
>> >> food
>> >> > production, too. Those deaths -- through poisoning, mutilation,
>> >> > drowning, predation, etc. -- are significantly more "cruel" than the
>> >> > humane slaughter which they object.
>> >>
>> >> You>>>>>>Killed, of course, by meat eaters. When the vegan buys the
>> >> ingredients
>> >> for the day's meal, the killing is usually done by the meat eater who
>> >> rather than finding 'ethical' means of growing or harvesting such
>> >> products, continues to kill.
>> >> end quoted text....
>> >>
>> >> You're an idiot, pansy-boy....
>>
>> Lack of comment noted, pansy-boy.... Finally figure out your stupidity?
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> Besides, if you really understood the term, you'd realize that it
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> you that has made assumptions of farmers, without actually having
>> >> >> any
>> >> >> info,
>> >> >> must less the minimun needed, fool. Have you questioned however
>> >> >> many
>> >> >> farmers there are? Remember, not all farmers raise animals, yet
>> >> >> they
>> >> >> still
>> >> >> kill them.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Keep up the good work in proving your ignorance, pansy-boy.
>> >> >
>> >> > You must raise livestock. Your propensity for abuse and violence is
>> >> > familiar to those of us reading. And if not, you might find some
>> >> > 'release' in those acts. I imagine eating meat is less satisfactory
>> >> > than
>> >> > actually being hands on with killing.
>> >> =======================
>> >> Tell us all about your bloody hands, mr freud...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > But let's go another round of blaming the vegan for the actions of
>> >> > others. It is consistent with our culture of passing the buck -- no
>> >> > one
>> >> > is responsible for anything, everyone is responsible for everything.
>> >> ==============================
>> >> ROTFLMAO You really are a hoot! Thanks for stateing exactly what I
>> >> have
>> >> been saying. That vegans, and you now, continue to pass the buck for
>> >> the
>> >> actions they(you) take, knowing full well that the choices they/you
>> >> make
>> >> cause death and suffering to animals. It is vegans and you that are
>> >> trying
>> >> to deny their responsibility. Thanks for proving your stupidity yet
>> >> again,pansy-boy...
>> >
>> > I'm glad that you are venting your hostility and aggression on a
>> > keyboard and not on some unsuspecting person near to you. I hope there
>> > aren't children in your vicinity.
>> >
>> > The vegan can't be responsible for their action, just as the farmer
>> > can't be responsible for their own action. Your theory thus far has
>> > made
>> > that clear. The farmer can't control their actions, they are powerless
>> > before me. One word from me and they must kill. I command them. They
>> > are
>> > my slaves. I throw in the promise of a few bucks and my minions
>> > respond.
>> ===============
>> Lack of any logical response noted, fool. Keep up the good work proving
>> your ignorance and stupidity....
>
> Ah, rick! Hello! It is you that didn't respond. You have argued that the
> killers of animals are not responsible and that the consumer is
> responsible.
======================
Nice bit of ly there pansy-boy? I suggest you get whatever it is out of
your mouth and learn to read for comprehension, fool.

I asked then, who is responsible for the consumer's
> actions? How can you logically state that one is responsible for the
> other, but not vice versa.
======================
Because you start with a ly about what I said, you have to fall back to even
more ignorant spew. Thanks for proving yet again you have nothing...


>
> I'm sorry you're looking foolish, rick. But this is the outcome of the
> beliefs that you are advocating here in your attempt to make vegans look
> bad.

In article . net>,
"rick etter" > wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article et>,
> > "rick etter" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article et>,
> >> > "rick etter" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > In article . net>,
> >> >> > "rick etter" > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> > In article et>,
> >> >> >> > "rick etter" > wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> >> >> > usual suspect > wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> This ignores the fact that animals die in the course of
> >> >> >> >> >> "vegan"
> >> >> >> >> >> food
> >> >> >> >> >> production, too. Those deaths -- through poisoning,
> >> >> >> >> >> mutilation,
> >> >> >> >> >> drowning, predation, etc. -- are significantly more "cruel"
> >> >> >> >> >> than
> >> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> >> humane slaughter which they object.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Killed, of course, by meat eaters.
> >> >> >> >> =================
> >> >> >> >> You have proof of this bit of delusional insight, fool? Try to
> >> >> >> >> back
> >> >> >> >> it
> >> >> >> >> up.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > What is the difficulty? People who raise and kill pigs eat pork
> >> >> >> > products. People who raise and kill cows eat beef products.
> >> >> >> > People
> >> >> >> > who
> >> >> >> > raise and kill seafood eat fish products. What is the difficulty
> >> >> >> > here,
> >> >> >> > usual?
> >> >> >> ================================
> >> >> >> Don't know who you're talking to even anymore, eh fool? Try
> >> >> >> reading
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> comprehension, for a chnage. The comment was about those people
> >> >> >> that
> >> >> >> produce food for vegans. You remember them, don't you? They're
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> loons
> >> >> >> we've been talking about for weeks now. Now, you like to spew
> >> >> >> about
> >> >> >> those
> >> >> >> that produce beef, pork, and seafood. Seems to me that none of
> >> >> >> those
> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> vegan foods, are they?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Same group. Who does produce food for vegans.
> >> >> ======================
> >> >> Not the same ones that rasie meat, fool.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Who are the rice growers
> >> >> > of the world? Meat eater, or vegan?
> >> >> =====================
> >> >> Have you checked? Prove that a fair number of rice growers
> >> >> world-wide
> >> >> are
> >> >> not vegan.
> >> >>
> >> >> Who are the people who use the
> >> >> > products and chemicals that you so kindly point out are responsible
> >> >> > (oops, there's that word) for the collateral death of animals.
> >> >> ==========================
> >> >> Have you checked? Prove that a fair number of organic growers are not
> >> >> vegan.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Who is
> >> >> > that is killing the rodents, amphibians and such -- the meat eater
> >> >> > or
> >> >> > the vegan. Farmers and growers are the killers.
> >> >> ===================
> >> >> Exactly. But that doesn't mean that all of them are meat-eaters, now
> >> >> does
> >> >> it, fool?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Some of us tolerate
> >> >> > their violence in the world.
> >> >> =======================
> >> >> And are culpable for it. Thanks for pointing that out, pansy-boy....
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Your request for proof suggests that the typical grower and
> >> >> >> > killer of animals would be vegan and that's just being silly on
> >> >> >> > your
> >> >> >> > part.
> >> >> >> =======================
> >> >> >> Why fool? Are you really this clueless? Oh wait, you've already
> >> >> >> proven
> >> >> >> that, haven't you. Try checking out any number of growers that
> >> >> >> claim
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> be
> >> >> >> 'organic'. I'd bet more than a few would be vegan, yet their
> >> >> >> farming
> >> >> >> will
> >> >> >> still cause animals to die.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > AH, a few might be vegan. Shall we do a comparison of farms operated
> >> >> > by
> >> >> > vegans and meat eaters and killers. it's always easy and
> >> >> > intellectually
> >> >> > dishonest to generalize to avoid reality.
> >> >> ==============================
> >> >> ROTFLMAO What a hoot!! It was you that generalized all growers, you
> >> >> ignorant fool! Man, what a maroon... Besides, if you could read for
> >> >> comprhension, you'd see that this discussion was about 'vegan' food!
> >> >> Not
> >> >> meats. Of course, we know that your comprehension is sorely lacking.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Occam's Razor: what is more likely that those raise and kill
> >> >> >> > animals are vegan or meat eater?
> >> >> >> ============================
> >> >> >> And again, we aren't talking here about meat, fool. Those are
> >> >> >> hardly
> >> >> >> vegan
> >> >> >> foods.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Do pay attention. Dutch specifically spoke to raising livestock.
> >> >> =====================
> >> >> Not at the top of this thread were I responded fool. Your response
> >> >> was
> >> >> to
> >> >> Usual, and the discussion was not about livestock. Need a refresher,
> >> >> fool?
> >> >> try reading for comprehension.
> >> >> quoted text....
> >> >> Usual>>> > This ignores the fact that animals die in the course of
> >> >> "vegan"
> >> >> food
> >> >> > production, too. Those deaths -- through poisoning, mutilation,
> >> >> > drowning, predation, etc. -- are significantly more "cruel" than the
> >> >> > humane slaughter which they object.
> >> >>
> >> >> You>>>>>>Killed, of course, by meat eaters. When the vegan buys the
> >> >> ingredients
> >> >> for the day's meal, the killing is usually done by the meat eater who
> >> >> rather than finding 'ethical' means of growing or harvesting such
> >> >> products, continues to kill.
> >> >> end quoted text....
> >> >>
> >> >> You're an idiot, pansy-boy....
> >>
> >> Lack of comment noted, pansy-boy.... Finally figure out your stupidity?
> >>
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Besides, if you really understood the term, you'd realize that it
> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> you that has made assumptions of farmers, without actually having
> >> >> >> any
> >> >> >> info,
> >> >> >> must less the minimun needed, fool. Have you questioned however
> >> >> >> many
> >> >> >> farmers there are? Remember, not all farmers raise animals, yet
> >> >> >> they
> >> >> >> still
> >> >> >> kill them.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Keep up the good work in proving your ignorance, pansy-boy.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You must raise livestock. Your propensity for abuse and violence is
> >> >> > familiar to those of us reading. And if not, you might find some
> >> >> > 'release' in those acts. I imagine eating meat is less satisfactory
> >> >> > than
> >> >> > actually being hands on with killing.
> >> >> =======================
> >> >> Tell us all about your bloody hands, mr freud...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > But let's go another round of blaming the vegan for the actions of
> >> >> > others. It is consistent with our culture of passing the buck -- no
> >> >> > one
> >> >> > is responsible for anything, everyone is responsible for everything.
> >> >> ==============================
> >> >> ROTFLMAO You really are a hoot! Thanks for stateing exactly what I
> >> >> have
> >> >> been saying. That vegans, and you now, continue to pass the buck for
> >> >> the
> >> >> actions they(you) take, knowing full well that the choices they/you
> >> >> make
> >> >> cause death and suffering to animals. It is vegans and you that are
> >> >> trying
> >> >> to deny their responsibility. Thanks for proving your stupidity yet
> >> >> again,pansy-boy...
> >> >
> >> > I'm glad that you are venting your hostility and aggression on a
> >> > keyboard and not on some unsuspecting person near to you. I hope there
> >> > aren't children in your vicinity.
> >> >
> >> > The vegan can't be responsible for their action, just as the farmer
> >> > can't be responsible for their own action. Your theory thus far has
> >> > made
> >> > that clear. The farmer can't control their actions, they are powerless
> >> > before me. One word from me and they must kill. I command them. They
> >> > are
> >> > my slaves. I throw in the promise of a few bucks and my minions
> >> > respond.
> >> ===============
> >> Lack of any logical response noted, fool. Keep up the good work proving
> >> your ignorance and stupidity....
> >
> > Ah, rick! Hello! It is you that didn't respond. You have argued that the
> > killers of animals are not responsible and that the consumer is
> > responsible.
> ======================
> Nice bit of ly there pansy-boy? I suggest you get whatever it is out of
> your mouth and learn to read for comprehension, fool.

More of the same.

Then please clarify if I am mistaken. (Something I view differently than
a lie but that's me.)

Do state your position for the record. Do you think that a vegan is
responsible for the what the growers and food producers do as usual and
Dutch have stated.

> I asked then, who is responsible for the consumer's
> > actions? How can you logically state that one is responsible for the
> > other, but not vice versa.
> ======================
> Because you start with a ly about what I said, you have to fall back to even
> more ignorant spew. Thanks for proving yet again you have nothing...

That you jump to the conclusion that a possible mistake is a lie only
creates suspicion for me about you.

Please restate your position for the record. Does the vegan, as the
example of the law has been provided, mean that you also agree that a
vegan is also responsible for the killing of animals by others?

> > I'm sorry you're looking foolish, rick. But this is the outcome of the
> > beliefs that you are advocating here in your attempt to make vegans look
> > bad.

"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article . net>,
> "rick etter" > wrote:

snippage...

>> >> >> > Do pay attention. Dutch specifically spoke to raising livestock.
>> >> >> =====================
>> >> >> Not at the top of this thread were I responded fool. Your response
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> Usual, and the discussion was not about livestock. Need a
>> >> >> refresher,
>> >> >> fool?
>> >> >> try reading for comprehension.
>> >> >> quoted text....
>> >> >> Usual>>> > This ignores the fact that animals die in the course of
>> >> >> "vegan"
>> >> >> food
>> >> >> > production, too. Those deaths -- through poisoning, mutilation,
>> >> >> > drowning, predation, etc. -- are significantly more "cruel" than
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > humane slaughter which they object.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You>>>>>>Killed, of course, by meat eaters. When the vegan buys the
>> >> >> ingredients
>> >> >> for the day's meal, the killing is usually done by the meat eater
>> >> >> who
>> >> >> rather than finding 'ethical' means of growing or harvesting such
>> >> >> products, continues to kill.
>> >> >> end quoted text....
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You're an idiot, pansy-boy....
>> >>
>> >> Lack of comment noted, pansy-boy.... Finally figure out your
>> >> stupidity?
==============
No comment?


>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Besides, if you really understood the term, you'd realize that
>> >> >> >> it
>> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> you that has made assumptions of farmers, without actually
>> >> >> >> having
>> >> >> >> any
>> >> >> >> info,
>> >> >> >> must less the minimun needed, fool. Have you questioned however
>> >> >> >> many
>> >> >> >> farmers there are? Remember, not all farmers raise animals, yet
>> >> >> >> they
>> >> >> >> still
>> >> >> >> kill them.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Keep up the good work in proving your ignorance, pansy-boy.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You must raise livestock. Your propensity for abuse and violence
>> >> >> > is
>> >> >> > familiar to those of us reading. And if not, you might find some
>> >> >> > 'release' in those acts. I imagine eating meat is less
>> >> >> > satisfactory
>> >> >> > than
>> >> >> > actually being hands on with killing.
>> >> >> =======================
>> >> >> Tell us all about your bloody hands, mr freud...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > But let's go another round of blaming the vegan for the actions
>> >> >> > of
>> >> >> > others. It is consistent with our culture of passing the buck --
>> >> >> > no
>> >> >> > one
>> >> >> > is responsible for anything, everyone is responsible for
>> >> >> > everything.
>> >> >> ==============================
>> >> >> ROTFLMAO You really are a hoot! Thanks for stateing exactly what
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> have
>> >> >> been saying. That vegans, and you now, continue to pass the buck
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> actions they(you) take, knowing full well that the choices they/you
>> >> >> make
>> >> >> cause death and suffering to animals. It is vegans and you that
>> >> >> are
>> >> >> trying
>> >> >> to deny their responsibility. Thanks for proving your stupidity
>> >> >> yet
>> >> >> again,pansy-boy...
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm glad that you are venting your hostility and aggression on a
>> >> > keyboard and not on some unsuspecting person near to you. I hope
>> >> > there
>> >> > aren't children in your vicinity.
>> >> >
>> >> > The vegan can't be responsible for their action, just as the farmer
>> >> > can't be responsible for their own action. Your theory thus far has
>> >> > made
>> >> > that clear. The farmer can't control their actions, they are
>> >> > powerless
>> >> > before me. One word from me and they must kill. I command them. They
>> >> > are
>> >> > my slaves. I throw in the promise of a few bucks and my minions
>> >> > respond.
>> >> ===============
>> >> Lack of any logical response noted, fool. Keep up the good work
>> >> proving
>> >> your ignorance and stupidity....
>> >
>> > Ah, rick! Hello! It is you that didn't respond. You have argued that
>> > the
>> > killers of animals are not responsible and that the consumer is
>> > responsible.
>> ======================
>> Nice bit of ly there pansy-boy? I suggest you get whatever it is out of
>> your mouth and learn to read for comprehension, fool.
>
> More of the same.
=================
lack of intelligent response, noted.


>
> Then please clarify if I am mistaken. (Something I view differently than
> a lie but that's me.)
====================
Read what is written. You continue to ly about what I have said.


>
> Do state your position for the record. Do you think that a vegan is
> responsible for the what the growers and food producers do as usual and
> Dutch have stated.
=====================
They haven't been saying that either, fool. Nice strawman, too bad it gets
blown to pieces. Oh, wait, that's why you build them, isn't it, pansy-boy?
You, I, vegans are responsible for the actions we take. If we make choices
that we know results in actions that are contrary to our stated beliefs,
when other choices that do not result in those actions are available, then
yes, we are culpable for the death and suffering that occurs. Does that
absolve the farmer? No. And no one has said it does fool. Your strawman
to the contrary. Your ignorance and stupidity, and obvious hatred is well
displayed, pansy-boy.


>
>> I asked then, who is responsible for the consumer's
>> > actions? How can you logically state that one is responsible for the
>> > other, but not vice versa.
>> ======================
>> Because you start with a ly about what I said, you have to fall back to
>> even
>> more ignorant spew. Thanks for proving yet again you have nothing...
>
> That you jump to the conclusion that a possible mistake is a lie only
> creates suspicion for me about you.
======================
Because you keep repeating it, like it's your new mantra, pansy-boy.

>
> Please restate your position for the record. Does the vegan, as the
> example of the law has been provided, mean that you also agree that a
> vegan is also responsible for the killing of animals by others?
========================
When he knowingly makes choices that result in the death and suffering of
animals, despite the fact that he claims to care and make no effort to make
other choices, then yes.


>
>> > I'm sorry you're looking foolish, rick. But this is the outcome of the
>> > beliefs that you are advocating here in your attempt to make vegans
>> > look
>> > bad.
====================
LOL I don't have to try. They do just by opening their mouths, fool. Now,
so do you. Keep up the good work proving your ignorance, stupidity and
hatred, pansy-boy.

In article et>,
"rick etter" > wrote:

> LOL I don't have to try. They do just by opening their mouths, fool. Now,
> so do you. Keep up the good work proving your ignorance, stupidity and
> hatred, pansy-boy.

Hatred? Ah, ok.

In article et>,
"rick etter" > wrote:

> When he knowingly makes choices that result in the death and suffering of
> animals, despite the fact that he claims to care and make no effort to make
> other choices, then yes.

I am not responsible for the outcome of your choices. When a producer of
food kills to accomplish there goals they are responsible for the
actions not each and every possible outcome.

I give one animal an antibiotic and it lives. I give an animal and
anitbiotic and it dies. I have performed the same ACT in both cases. The
outcomes are independent of my actions. My actions are coincidental and
not causal.

"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article et>,
> "rick etter" > wrote:
>
>> When he knowingly makes choices that result in the death and suffering of
>> animals, despite the fact that he claims to care and make no effort to
>> make
>> other choices, then yes.
>
> I am not responsible for the outcome of your choices.
===========================
Very good fool. No one ever claimed that. You, however are responsible
for *your* choices.


When a producer of
> food kills to accomplish there goals they are responsible for the
> actions not each and every possible outcome.
>
> I give one animal an antibiotic and it lives. I give an animal and
> anitbiotic and it dies. I have performed the same ACT in both cases. The
> outcomes are independent of my actions. My actions are coincidental and
> not causal.
=====================
Tap, tap, tap.. Keep telling yourself that pansy-boy....

In article et>,
"rick etter" > wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article et>,
> > "rick etter" > wrote:
> >
> >> When he knowingly makes choices that result in the death and suffering of
> >> animals, despite the fact that he claims to care and make no effort to
> >> make
> >> other choices, then yes.
> >
> > I am not responsible for the outcome of your choices.
> ===========================
> Very good fool. No one ever claimed that. You, however are responsible
> for *your* choices.

Of course, you did. The outcome of a dead animal from a farmers action
of killing is holding me accountable for the outcome of their action.

> When a producer of
> > food kills to accomplish there goals they are responsible for the
> > actions not each and every possible outcome.
> >
> > I give one animal an antibiotic and it lives. I give an animal and
> > anitbiotic and it dies. I have performed the same ACT in both cases. The
> > outcomes are independent of my actions. My actions are coincidental and
> > not causal.
> =====================
> Tap, tap, tap.. Keep telling yourself that pansy-boy....

I guess you do get to feel special and important thinking that what you
do is causing farmers and growers to kill animals. That's quite a feat
there.

In article et>,
"rick etter" > wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article et>,
> > "rick etter" > wrote:
> >
> >> When he knowingly makes choices that result in the death and suffering of
> >> animals, despite the fact that he claims to care and make no effort to
> >> make
> >> other choices, then yes.
> >
> > I am not responsible for the outcome of your choices.
> ===========================
> Very good fool. No one ever claimed that. You, however are responsible
> for *your* choices.

Of course, you did. The outcome of a dead animal from a farmers action
of killing is holding me accountable for the outcome of their action.

> When a producer of
> > food kills to accomplish there goals they are responsible for the
> > actions not each and every possible outcome.
> >
> > I give one animal an antibiotic and it lives. I give an animal and
> > anitbiotic and it dies. I have performed the same ACT in both cases. The
> > outcomes are independent of my actions. My actions are coincidental and
> > not causal.
> =====================
> Tap, tap, tap.. Keep telling yourself that pansy-boy....

I guess you do get to feel special and important thinking that what you
do is causing farmers and growers to kill animals. That's quite a feat
there.

"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article et>,
> "rick etter" > wrote:
>
>> When he knowingly makes choices that result in the death and suffering of
>> animals, despite the fact that he claims to care and make no effort to
>> make
>> other choices, then yes.
>
> I am not responsible for the outcome of your choices.
===========================
Very good fool. No one ever claimed that. You, however are responsible
for *your* choices.


When a producer of
> food kills to accomplish there goals they are responsible for the
> actions not each and every possible outcome.
>
> I give one animal an antibiotic and it lives. I give an animal and
> anitbiotic and it dies. I have performed the same ACT in both cases. The
> outcomes are independent of my actions. My actions are coincidental and
> not causal.
=====================
Tap, tap, tap.. Keep telling yourself that pansy-boy....

In article et>,
"rick etter" > wrote:

> LOL I don't have to try. They do just by opening their mouths, fool. Now,
> so do you. Keep up the good work proving your ignorance, stupidity and
> hatred, pansy-boy.

Hatred? Ah, ok.

In article et>,
"rick etter" > wrote:

> When he knowingly makes choices that result in the death and suffering of
> animals, despite the fact that he claims to care and make no effort to make
> other choices, then yes.

I am not responsible for the outcome of your choices. When a producer of
food kills to accomplish there goals they are responsible for the
actions not each and every possible outcome.

I give one animal an antibiotic and it lives. I give an animal and
anitbiotic and it dies. I have performed the same ACT in both cases. The
outcomes are independent of my actions. My actions are coincidental and
not causal.

"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article . net>,
> "rick etter" > wrote:

snippage...

>> >> >> > Do pay attention. Dutch specifically spoke to raising livestock.
>> >> >> =====================
>> >> >> Not at the top of this thread were I responded fool. Your response
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> Usual, and the discussion was not about livestock. Need a
>> >> >> refresher,
>> >> >> fool?
>> >> >> try reading for comprehension.
>> >> >> quoted text....
>> >> >> Usual>>> > This ignores the fact that animals die in the course of
>> >> >> "vegan"
>> >> >> food
>> >> >> > production, too. Those deaths -- through poisoning, mutilation,
>> >> >> > drowning, predation, etc. -- are significantly more "cruel" than
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > humane slaughter which they object.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You>>>>>>Killed, of course, by meat eaters. When the vegan buys the
>> >> >> ingredients
>> >> >> for the day's meal, the killing is usually done by the meat eater
>> >> >> who
>> >> >> rather than finding 'ethical' means of growing or harvesting such
>> >> >> products, continues to kill.
>> >> >> end quoted text....
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You're an idiot, pansy-boy....
>> >>
>> >> Lack of comment noted, pansy-boy.... Finally figure out your
>> >> stupidity?
==============
No comment?


>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Besides, if you really understood the term, you'd realize that
>> >> >> >> it
>> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> you that has made assumptions of farmers, without actually
>> >> >> >> having
>> >> >> >> any
>> >> >> >> info,
>> >> >> >> must less the minimun needed, fool. Have you questioned however
>> >> >> >> many
>> >> >> >> farmers there are? Remember, not all farmers raise animals, yet
>> >> >> >> they
>> >> >> >> still
>> >> >> >> kill them.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Keep up the good work in proving your ignorance, pansy-boy.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You must raise livestock. Your propensity for abuse and violence
>> >> >> > is
>> >> >> > familiar to those of us reading. And if not, you might find some
>> >> >> > 'release' in those acts. I imagine eating meat is less
>> >> >> > satisfactory
>> >> >> > than
>> >> >> > actually being hands on with killing.
>> >> >> =======================
>> >> >> Tell us all about your bloody hands, mr freud...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > But let's go another round of blaming the vegan for the actions
>> >> >> > of
>> >> >> > others. It is consistent with our culture of passing the buck --
>> >> >> > no
>> >> >> > one
>> >> >> > is responsible for anything, everyone is responsible for
>> >> >> > everything.
>> >> >> ==============================
>> >> >> ROTFLMAO You really are a hoot! Thanks for stateing exactly what
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> have
>> >> >> been saying. That vegans, and you now, continue to pass the buck
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> actions they(you) take, knowing full well that the choices they/you
>> >> >> make
>> >> >> cause death and suffering to animals. It is vegans and you that
>> >> >> are
>> >> >> trying
>> >> >> to deny their responsibility. Thanks for proving your stupidity
>> >> >> yet
>> >> >> again,pansy-boy...
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm glad that you are venting your hostility and aggression on a
>> >> > keyboard and not on some unsuspecting person near to you. I hope
>> >> > there
>> >> > aren't children in your vicinity.
>> >> >
>> >> > The vegan can't be responsible for their action, just as the farmer
>> >> > can't be responsible for their own action. Your theory thus far has
>> >> > made
>> >> > that clear. The farmer can't control their actions, they are
>> >> > powerless
>> >> > before me. One word from me and they must kill. I command them. They
>> >> > are
>> >> > my slaves. I throw in the promise of a few bucks and my minions
>> >> > respond.
>> >> ===============
>> >> Lack of any logical response noted, fool. Keep up the good work
>> >> proving
>> >> your ignorance and stupidity....
>> >
>> > Ah, rick! Hello! It is you that didn't respond. You have argued that
>> > the
>> > killers of animals are not responsible and that the consumer is
>> > responsible.
>> ======================
>> Nice bit of ly there pansy-boy? I suggest you get whatever it is out of
>> your mouth and learn to read for comprehension, fool.
>
> More of the same.
=================
lack of intelligent response, noted.


>
> Then please clarify if I am mistaken. (Something I view differently than
> a lie but that's me.)
====================
Read what is written. You continue to ly about what I have said.


>
> Do state your position for the record. Do you think that a vegan is
> responsible for the what the growers and food producers do as usual and
> Dutch have stated.
=====================
They haven't been saying that either, fool. Nice strawman, too bad it gets
blown to pieces. Oh, wait, that's why you build them, isn't it, pansy-boy?
You, I, vegans are responsible for the actions we take. If we make choices
that we know results in actions that are contrary to our stated beliefs,
when other choices that do not result in those actions are available, then
yes, we are culpable for the death and suffering that occurs. Does that
absolve the farmer? No. And no one has said it does fool. Your strawman
to the contrary. Your ignorance and stupidity, and obvious hatred is well
displayed, pansy-boy.


>
>> I asked then, who is responsible for the consumer's
>> > actions? How can you logically state that one is responsible for the
>> > other, but not vice versa.
>> ======================
>> Because you start with a ly about what I said, you have to fall back to
>> even
>> more ignorant spew. Thanks for proving yet again you have nothing...
>
> That you jump to the conclusion that a possible mistake is a lie only
> creates suspicion for me about you.
======================
Because you keep repeating it, like it's your new mantra, pansy-boy.

>
> Please restate your position for the record. Does the vegan, as the
> example of the law has been provided, mean that you also agree that a
> vegan is also responsible for the killing of animals by others?
========================
When he knowingly makes choices that result in the death and suffering of
animals, despite the fact that he claims to care and make no effort to make
other choices, then yes.


>
>> > I'm sorry you're looking foolish, rick. But this is the outcome of the
>> > beliefs that you are advocating here in your attempt to make vegans
>> > look
>> > bad.
====================
LOL I don't have to try. They do just by opening their mouths, fool. Now,
so do you. Keep up the good work proving your ignorance, stupidity and
hatred, pansy-boy.