Looking for a new source of Medieval and Renaissance recipes?

Check out: http://hometown.aol.com/terranova0/HistoricFood.html

This year I'll be adding a section on Victorian recipes, as well.

Enjoy!

(these are non-commercial pages- recipes are free to all)

ALOHA!

Barb

Barb wrote:
> Looking for a new source of Medieval and Renaissance recipes?

"Stuffed Bustiere of Veal"

Sheldon

> Nice...but, the recipe page is hard to read and I couldn't find some of
> them. I went to a Renaissance fair once and the only food I found there
> was turkey drumsticks and funnel cake.


There are 115 Ren Faires, and they often aren't the same from year to
year.

The food options sometimes try to recreate something authentic but
sometimes are just food.

Take a look here for a start:

http://www.renfaire.com/Sites/

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA

Steve Wertz wrote:

> You cut out the ingredients lists for about half of the recipes.
> I can look those up else where on the net and get the complete
> recipe, rather than just a vague forward to th recipe.
>
> -sw

I'm still working on it, (it's ever a work in progress) you may have
loaded it while I was updating. They should all have recipe
ingredients. Some are original texts and are left for you to interpret.
Others simply need to be finished. Stay tuned!

Aloha!~

Barb

jay wrote:
> On 20 Oct 2006 12:48:11 -0700, Barb wrote:
>
>> Looking for a new source of Medieval and Renaissance recipes?
>>
>> Barb
>
> Nice...but, the recipe page is hard to read and I couldn't find some
> of them. I went to a Renaissance fair once and the only food I found
> there was turkey drumsticks and funnel cake.
>
Sounds more like a country fair than a Renaissance Faire

> Seems that some translation would be good if you really want someone
> to try any of this. I really don't quite know what to do preparation
> wise with instructions like this:
>
> *an whan [th]ey haue boyle a whyle, take pouder of gyngere an caste
> [th]er-to, an a lytil venegre, an a lytil safron; an loke [th]at it be
> poynaunt an dowcet.*
>
I translate this loosely as "...and when they have boiled a while take some
ginger powder and throw it in there, and a little vinegar, and a little
saffron and be sure it's poignant (as in pungent) and cooked down.

Hmmm, I don't recall cooking during the Renaissance but I may well have done


> ..and can you even get this stuff at the grocery store?

I don't know what they were boiling but you can sure get powdered ginger,
vinegar and saffron!

Jill

jay wrote:

> Nice...but, the recipe page is hard to read and I couldn't find some of
> them. I went to a Renaissance fair once and the only food I found there
> was turkey drumsticks and funnel cake.
>
> Seems that some translation would be good if you really want someone to try
> any of this. I really don't quite know what to do preparation wise with
> instructions like this:
>
> *an whan [th]ey haue boyle a whyle, take pouder of gyngere an caste
> [th]er-to, an a lytil venegre, an a lytil safron; an loke [th]at it be
> poynaunt an dowcet.*
>
> ..and can you even get this stuff at the grocery store?

I've taken your post to heart and am adding my redactions to the
recipes.

Most of the ingredients can be readily purchased in today's
supermarkets, some of the spices require a little internet-shopping. A
Google search will bring you several sources for grains of paradise,
long peppers, galanga and cubebs. I like <a
href="www.thespicehouse.com/"> The Spice House</a> for most of my
spices, but they don't carry everything needed. Trader Joes has
inexpensive saffron, and sometimes rose water as well as a very nice
organic almond extract. Finding quince can be a challenge.

Authentic Period recipes are often just a list of ingredients with
little or no instructions on how to prepare them. This is true from
Roman times through the Victorian period. Many "receipts' from my copy
of Queen of the Household (1890) are just ingredient lists. It would
seem that it is assumed you already know what the finished food should
look like, and how to prepare the oven, etc.

My first goal was to simply list the recipes as found in their original
text, or a faximile thereof gleaned from ingredient lists and other
sources. For example, I do not have an original text for Twekesbury
mustard, and, as far as I know, one was never published. (If you find
an original text, please let me know). Yet Twekebury muistard was
common enough during the Elizabethan period to have been mentioned by
Shakespeare. "His wit was as thick as Twekesbury mustard." -- ah-hah it
should be thick! This is true for most breads and simple porridge, as
well; there are very few surviving recipes for these basic foods. You
were taught to make bread by example, and a written recipe would have
been useless to most folks given the literacy rate, not to mention the
paper it would have been written upon was prohibitively expensive.

I will be working on adding recipes that cannot be found elsewhere on
the net, and will include my personal redactions (as time permits).
Here is a website of resources I use often: <a
href="http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food.html"> Medieval and Renaissance
Food Resources</a>.

Enjoy!

Aloha!

Barb

Sheldon wrote:
> Barb wrote:
> > Looking for a new source of Medieval and Renaissance recipes?
>
> "Stuffed Bustiere of Veal"
>
> Sheldon

Would you settle for a Stuffed Dormice?

IMHO, ewe would be much sexier thus prepared.

Alobaaaaa

Barb

jay wrote:

> Good job.. I think. That was just a sample..there is a lot more. I'm not
> going to cook a recipe that is all guesswork though. Might as well just
> make something up. You could say gather up some stuff and throw it in
> there. Hey, that is how I really cook.

Adding my detailed redactions will be helpful, but it also limits the
cook's creativity to some degree. And, that's how I really cook, too!
One of the reasons I chose to stick with the original texts was because
I didn't want to present my modern interpretation, thus making it a
non-authentic creation.

One of the dishes I gave was for Meat of Cyprus in Lent, which is a
fishy blancmange. As far as I know it's the only copy on the net (for
now, lol). My interpretation of the dish has it molded and served
chilled with water crackers. It's absolutely delicious, but most would
have passed on a hot, fishy paste-- I think, anyway. Creativity is a
good thing. Use the original recipes as a base for your next
medievalish banquet-- or get anal and do your best to interpret the
dish as authentically as possible.

Aloha!

Barb

On 21 Oct 2006 13:37:08 -0700, "Barb" > rummaged
among random neurons and opined:

>Adding my detailed redactions will be helpful, but it also limits the
>cook's creativity to some degree. And, that's how I really cook, too!
>One of the reasons I chose to stick with the original texts was because
>I didn't want to present my modern interpretation, thus making it a
>non-authentic creation.

<snip>

While in Philadelphis last spring, the DH and I had a meal at the City
Tavern, which opened its doors in 1774. It was not in continuous
operation to the present, but the present owner/chef, Walter Staib,
had for sale his cookbook that boasts of "200 Years of Classic Recipes
From America's First Gourmet Restaurant." I've had a lot of fun since
making some of the dishes. There are also a number of dishes I
wouldn't make if you held a gun to me head (Tavern Turkey Stew with
Fried Oysters, comes to mind) `It also has some interesting trivia
laced through the pages. And James Beard's _American Cookery_ is long
on historic American dishes and captions as to where the dish came
from and what time period for many.

Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"Most vigitaryans I iver see looked enough like their food to be
classed as cannybals."

Finley Peter Dunne (1900)

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"

On 21 Oct 2006 12:28:46 -0700, "Barb" > wrote:

>
>jay wrote:
>
>> Nice...but, the recipe page is hard to read and I couldn't find
some of
>> them. I went to a Renaissance fair once and the only food I found
there
>> was turkey drumsticks and funnel cake.
>>
>> Seems that some translation would be good if you really want
someone to try
>> any of this. I really don't quite know what to do preparation wise
with
>> instructions like this:
>>
>> *an whan [th]ey haue boyle a whyle, take pouder of gyngere an caste
>> [th]er-to, an a lytil venegre, an a lytil safron; an loke [th]at it
be
>> poynaunt an dowcet.*
>>
>> ..and can you even get this stuff at the grocery store?

>Here is a website of resources I use often: <a
>href="http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food.html"> Medieval and
Renaissance
>Food Resources</a>.
>
>Enjoy!
>
>Aloha!
>
>Barb

Funny, I am making a dish tonight from Julius Cesar times. Pork
simmered in red wine essentially, with a multitude of spices, for 5
hours. It smells outrageous. Then I decided to also make (our little
dinner club and everyone brings another part of the dinner)
Alexandrine Squash and that needed the almonds discussed in another
thread, but that Recipe has no measurements. Yikes, that one is a
little scary. I could post the recipes tomorrow if anyone was
interested. Guests about to arrive. We like long cocktail hours and
early bed.

aloha too
beans
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email

Oh pshaw, on Sat 21 Oct 2006 07:16:12p, meant to say...

> On 21 Oct 2006 12:28:46 -0700, "Barb" > wrote:
>
>>
>>jay wrote:
>>
>>> Nice...but, the recipe page is hard to read and I couldn't find some
>>> of them. I went to a Renaissance fair once and the only food I found
>>> there was turkey drumsticks and funnel cake.
>>>
>>> Seems that some translation would be good if you really want someone
>>> to try any of this. I really don't quite know what to do preparation
>>> wise with instructions like this:
>>>
>>> *an whan [th]ey haue boyle a whyle, take pouder of gyngere an caste
>>> [th]er-to, an a lytil venegre, an a lytil safron; an loke [th]at it
>>> be poynaunt an dowcet.*
>>>
>>> ..and can you even get this stuff at the grocery store?
>
>>Here is a website of resources I use often: <a
>>href="http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food.html"> Medieval and Renaissance
>>Food Resources</a>.
>>
>>Enjoy!
>>
>>Aloha!
>>
>>Barb
>
> Funny, I am making a dish tonight from Julius Cesar times. Pork
> simmered in red wine essentially, with a multitude of spices, for 5
> hours. It smells outrageous. Then I decided to also make (our little
> dinner club and everyone brings another part of the dinner)
> Alexandrine Squash and that needed the almonds discussed in another
> thread, but that Recipe has no measurements. Yikes, that one is a
> little scary. I could post the recipes tomorrow if anyone was
> interested. Guests about to arrive. We like long cocktail hours and
> early bed.

I would *love* to see those recipes. Sounds very intriguing!

Have a great evening.

--
Wayne Boatwright
__________________________________________________

We are upping our standards... so up yours.

Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>
>
> While in Philadelphis last spring, the DH and I had a meal at the City
> Tavern, which opened its doors in 1774. It was not in continuous
> operation to the present, but the present owner/chef, Walter Staib,
> had for sale his cookbook that boasts of "200 Years of Classic Recipes
> From America's First Gourmet Restaurant." I've had a lot of fun since
> making some of the dishes. There are also a number of dishes I
> wouldn't make if you held a gun to me head (Tavern Turkey Stew with
> Fried Oysters, comes to mind) `It also has some interesting trivia
> laced through the pages. And James Beard's _American Cookery_ is long
> on historic American dishes and captions as to where the dish came
> from and what time period for many.
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
> AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA
>
> "Most vigitaryans I iver see looked enough like their food to be
> classed as cannybals."
>
> Finley Peter Dunne (1900)
>

Last Thanksgiving I made a cornbread, giblet and oyster stuffing loaf
to serve with dinner and was very pleased with the results. Normally
I'm not much for mixing oysters with other meats, but it was a common
practice throughout history.

One of my favorite cookbooks for American historic cooking is _A SALUTE
TO AMERICAN COOKING_ by Stephen & Ethel Longstreet. I saw a used copy
on the net for a mere 3 bux plus postage. It's a great book, though,
filled with lots of tidbits about food history in America. And the
recipes are pretty good, too.


I found this one for Sheldon from the Longstreet's cookbook mentioned
above:

"Sunday Breast of Veal with Peaches

4 cups slightly stale bread crumbs
2 TB lard, melted
1/2 tsp poultry seasoning
1 pound can [ummm... they gyp us by about 2 ounces these days- oh
well] peach halves and syrup
3 pounds breast of veal with pocket
1/2 tsp ground ginger
1 tsp salt
1/2 cup dry white wine

Combine crumbs, lard, poultry seasoning and 1/2 cup of syrup from the
peaches: stuff pocket of veal breast and sew or truss to close the
opening. Rub ginger and salt mixture into outside of meat. Place meat
on a rack in roasting pan uncovered. Bake 375 F. for 30 minutes.

Add remaining peach syrup. Cover pan and continue cooking until tender,
approximately 1 hour. Remove cover and lace peach halves around roast.
Add wine and continue cooking for 30 minutes basting two or three times
with syrup, until roast is glazed to a crisp brown. Serve with the
peaches as a garnish."

I'd add some minced celery and onion to the stuffing, maybe a little
parsley, too. And some pepper to everything! Powdered Grains of
Paradise would be awesome in this instead of pepper.

Aloha!

Barb

wrote:

>
> Funny, I am making a dish tonight from Julius Cesar times. Pork
> simmered in red wine essentially, with a multitude of spices, for 5
> hours. It smells outrageous. Then I decided to also make (our little
> dinner club and everyone brings another part of the dinner)
> Alexandrine Squash and that needed the almonds discussed in another
> thread, but that Recipe has no measurements. Yikes, that one is a
> little scary. I could post the recipes tomorrow if anyone was
> interested. Guests about to arrive. We like long cocktail hours and
> early bed.
>
> aloha too
> beans


I'd love the recipes! The recipes with no measurements are a
challenge, lol. Trader Joes (if you are near one) has a pretty good
selection of nuts, including ground almonds and hazlenuts (not sure
what you need but I'll check out the thread).

I have a couple Roman cookbooks, as well. _Cookery and Dining in
Imperial Rome_ edited & translated by Vehlig and Herklotz's translation
of Giacosa's _A Taste of Ancient Rome_. Maybe I'll add some of those
recipes and redactions to my website.

_A Taste of Ancient Rome_ has this recipe:

Squash Alexandrian Style
(translated by Herklotz)
"Squash Alexandrian Style: Squeeze the excess water from boiled squash,
sprinkle with salt and place in a pan. Grind pepper, cumin, coriander
seeds, fresh mint, and silphium root. Moisten with vinegar. Add the
dates and pine nuts; grind. Mix with honey, vinegar, garum, defructum
and oil, and pour over the squash. When they are boiled, sprinkle with
pepper and serve."

May I ask what you use for garum and defructum? I use the thai fish
sauce for the garum steeped with period spices. For defructum I came
upon grape molasses in a middle-eastern grocery store. The grape
molasses is delicious and I felt it an excellent substitution.

Aloha!

Barb

On 22 Oct 2006 04:53:15 +0200, Wayne Boatwright
<wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote:

>Oh pshaw, on Sat 21 Oct 2006 07:16:12p, meant to say...
>
>> On 21 Oct 2006 12:28:46 -0700, "Barb" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>jay wrote:
>>>
g a dish tonight from Julius Cesar times. Pork
>> simmered in red wine essentially, with a multitude of spices, for 5
>> hours. It smells outrageous. Then I decided to also make (our li
>
>I would *love* to see those recipes. Sounds very intriguing!
>
>Have a great evening.

Oh I didn't see this. Thanks for asking Wayne I posted the
Alexandrine Squash in another thread. But here is the main dish and
it was awesome. I will make it again. from Food Network.

I always enjoy reading recipes here in rfc, so I am happy to give
mine.
aloha, beans

*****Gaio Mazio's Pork *****- ancient recipe from Giulio Cesare's time
(Recipe courtesy Spirito Di Vino Restaurant- Roma)
Easy
5 hours total time

5 tbls olive oil
2 pounds pork shoulder meat, cubed to 1 inch square
1 apple, peeled, cored, chopped fine
1 leek, finely chopped
2 tbls flour
Red wine to cover all
1 tbl Honey
1 tbl vinegar
1 tsp black pepper
Garum (fish sauce, Use Thai nuoc mam) for seasoning
1 tsp ground coriander seeds
2 tbls chopped cilantro
1 tsp powdered caraway seeds
1 tsp powdered lovage seeds (I used celery seeds)
2 tbls ground mint

heat olive oil in pan and add meat, apple, and leeks. Add the flour.
Let cook for 5 minutes, turning the meat often.

Add enough red wine to cover pork. Continue to cook over a low flame.
After 2 hours, add honey, vinegar, black pepper, garum and spices.

Cook on the same low flame for another 2 or 3 hours, stirring
occasionally.
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 07:11:17 -1000, wrote:

> --smithfarms.com
>farmers of pure kona
>roast beans to kona to email


Just curious... how did you get into historc foods?

--
See return address to reply by email

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:54:30 -0700, sf wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 07:11:17 -1000, wrote:
>
>> --smithfarms.com
>>farmers of pure kona
>>roast beans to kona to email
>
>
>Just curious... how did you get into historc foods?

It's just our little dinner club of 4 couples that meets once a month.
We choose countries but this time I was the hostess and I got to pick
the place and make the entree. I'd been reading about Romans in
England and then checked out the food. Eating something that Julius
Caesar ate was intriguing and it turned out to be tasty too.

In every day life, I am a very boring cook, and get my foodie thrills
by reading RFC. Thanks everybody!

aloha,
beans
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email

> wrote in message

> In every day life, I am a very boring cook, and get my foodie
thrills
> by reading RFC. Thanks everybody!

I read somewhere that the average person only really cooks eight
meals which are recycled all the time. I gave it some thought and
realised that this was probably a fairly accurate reflection on my
life. The eight meals differ according to where I live, what season
it is, and my life circumstances at the time, but it is about eight
major variations (two different types of pasta and sauce just count
as pasta and sauce, and fried red meat is fried red meat whether it
is a steak or a few chops) at any time.


--
Moira de Swardt posting from Johannesburg, South Africa
Remove the dot in my address to find me at home.

>
>I'd love the recipes! The recipes with no measurements are a
>challenge, lol. Trader Joes (if you are near one) has a pretty good
>selection of nuts, including ground almonds and hazlenuts (not sure
>what you need but I'll check out the thread).
>
>I have a couple Roman cookbooks, as well. _Cookery and Dining in
>Imperial Rome_ edited & translated by Vehlig and Herklotz's
translation
>of Giacosa's _A Taste of Ancient Rome_. Maybe I'll add some of those
>recipes and redactions to my website.
>
>_A Taste of Ancient Rome_ has this recipe:
>
>Squash Alexandrian Style
>(translated by Herklotz)
>"Squash Alexandrian Style: Squeeze the excess water from boiled
squash,
>sprinkle with salt and place in a pan. Grind pepper, cumin, coriander
>seeds, fresh mint, and silphium root. Moisten with vinegar. Add the
>dates and pine nuts; grind. Mix with honey, vinegar, garum, defructum
>and oil, and pour over the squash. When they are boiled, sprinkle
with
>pepper and serve."
>
>May I ask what you use for garum and defructum? I use the thai fish
>sauce for the garum steeped with period spices. For defructum I came
>upon grape molasses in a middle-eastern grocery store. The grape
>molasses is delicious and I felt it an excellent substitution.
>
>Aloha!
>
>Barb
Our pumpkin recipes seem similar. Yes I used the Thai fish sauce. No
Trader Joes on this island. I don't even know if Oahu has one.

And what is the URL of your website?

OT, do you live in Hawaii?

aloha,
beans
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email

wrote:
> Our pumpkin recipes seem similar. Yes I used the Thai fish sauce. No
> Trader Joes on this island. I don't even know if Oahu has one.

I have a feeling that Giacosa's Apicius translation is the original
source for both squash/pumpkin dishes.
>
> And what is the URL of your website?

http://hometown.aol.com/terranova0/HistoricFood.html

>
> OT, do you live in Hawaii?
>
Nay not, I'm just a descendant born on the mainland. My foremothers are
from the islands.



ALOHA!

Barb

Oh pshaw, on Sun 22 Oct 2006 10:11:17a, meant to say...

> On 22 Oct 2006 04:53:15 +0200, Wayne Boatwright
> <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Oh pshaw, on Sat 21 Oct 2006 07:16:12p, meant to say...
>>
>>> On 21 Oct 2006 12:28:46 -0700, "Barb" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>jay wrote:
>>>>
> g a dish tonight from Julius Cesar times. Pork
>>> simmered in red wine essentially, with a multitude of spices, for 5
>>> hours. It smells outrageous. Then I decided to also make (our li
>>
>>I would *love* to see those recipes. Sounds very intriguing!
>>
>>Have a great evening.
>
> Oh I didn't see this. Thanks for asking Wayne I posted the
> Alexandrine Squash in another thread. But here is the main dish and
> it was awesome. I will make it again. from Food Network.
>
> I always enjoy reading recipes here in rfc, so I am happy to give
> mine.
> aloha, beans
>
> *****Gaio Mazio's Pork *****- ancient recipe from Giulio Cesare's time
> (Recipe courtesy Spirito Di Vino Restaurant- Roma)
> Easy
> 5 hours total time
>
> 5 tbls olive oil
> 2 pounds pork shoulder meat, cubed to 1 inch square
> 1 apple, peeled, cored, chopped fine
> 1 leek, finely chopped
> 2 tbls flour
> Red wine to cover all
> 1 tbl Honey
> 1 tbl vinegar
> 1 tsp black pepper
> Garum (fish sauce, Use Thai nuoc mam) for seasoning
> 1 tsp ground coriander seeds
> 2 tbls chopped cilantro
> 1 tsp powdered caraway seeds
> 1 tsp powdered lovage seeds (I used celery seeds)
> 2 tbls ground mint
>
> heat olive oil in pan and add meat, apple, and leeks. Add the flour.
> Let cook for 5 minutes, turning the meat often.
>
> Add enough red wine to cover pork. Continue to cook over a low flame.
> After 2 hours, add honey, vinegar, black pepper, garum and spices.
>
> Cook on the same low flame for another 2 or 3 hours, stirring
> occasionally.

This sounds wonderful! Definitely a keeper that I will try soon. Thanks
for posting it.

--
Wayne Boatwright
__________________________________________________

We are upping our standards... so up yours.

On 23 Oct 2006 03:09:33 +0200, Wayne Boatwright
<wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote:

>Oh pshaw, on Sun 22 Oct 2006 10:11:17a, meant to say...
>
>> On 22 Oct 2006 04:53:15 +0200, Wayne Boatwright

>
>This sounds wonderful! Definitely a keeper that I will try soon.
Thanks
>for posting it.

Thanks Wayne. We just finished leftovers and it was even better. I
smelled the simmering stuff yesterday for too many hours but tonight
it was new and wonderful over steamed white rice and the tepid
pumpkin. We are happy and full from both yummy things.

aloha
beans
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email

jay wrote:

> Seems that some translation would be good if you really want someone to try
> any of this. I really don't quite know what to do preparation wise with
> instructions like this:
>
> *an whan [th]ey haue boyle a whyle, take pouder of gyngere an caste
> [th]er-to, an a lytil venegre, an a lytil safron; an loke [th]at it be
> poynaunt an dowcet.*

Try to read it aloud and sound out the words, like they taught you in
grade school.
Here's what I heard when I read it aloud:

And when they have boiled a while, take powder of ginger and cast
[sprinkle]
thereto, and a little vinegar, and a little saffron. And look that it
be sour [poignant]
and sweet [dowcet].

Was this a recipe for eels?

Cindy Hamilton

> ..and can you even get this stuff at the grocery store?

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> And when they have boiled a while, take powder of ginger and cast
> [sprinkle]
> thereto, and a little vinegar, and a little saffron. And look that it
> be sour [poignant]
> and sweet [dowcet].
>
> Was this a recipe for eels?
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

No, it was for pears cooked in spiced wine syrup. They're awesomely
delicious.

/nods

I've completed about 2/3 of the redactions and added them to my
website.

http://hometown.aol.com/terranova0/HistoricFood.html

Aloha!

Barb