Story he
<http://www.elementarychef.com/2006/10/22/mourning-the-demise-of-miracle-whip/>

A Kraft employee responds: <http://instapundit.com/archives/033427.php>

--

-Jeff B.
zoomie at fastmail fm

Yeff wrote:
> Story he
> <http://www.elementarychef.com/2006/10/22/mourning-the-demise-of-miracle-whip/>
>
> A Kraft employee responds: <http://instapundit.com/archives/033427.php>
>

And theres the answer from the second link for anyone who doesn't
believe Walmart doesn't cause food to be reformulated or the quality
reduced:

"..every year the price that Wal*Mart and others want to buy it from us
for goes down."

On 2006-10-30, George > wrote:
> Yeff wrote:

>> <http://www.elementarychef.com/2006/10/22/mourning-the-demise-of-miracle-whip/>
>>
>> A Kraft employee responds: <http://instapundit.com/archives/033427.php>

> And theres the answer from the second link for anyone who doesn't
> believe Walmart doesn't cause food to be reformulated or the quality
> reduced:

No doubt in my mind. If Wallyworld sells your favorite product,
expect the quality to decline. Here's why:

http://www.fastcompany.com/online/77/walmart.html

nb

_.-In rec.food.cooking, notbob wrote the following -._
> On 2006-10-30, George > wrote:
>> Yeff wrote:
>
>>> <http://www.elementarychef.com/2006/10/22/mourning-the-demise-of-miracle-whip/>
>>>
>>> A Kraft employee responds: <http://instapundit.com/archives/033427.php>
>
>> And theres the answer from the second link for anyone who doesn't
>> believe Walmart doesn't cause food to be reformulated or the quality
>> reduced:
>
> No doubt in my mind. If Wallyworld sells your favorite product,
> expect the quality to decline. Here's why:
>
> http://www.fastcompany.com/online/77/walmart.html

And this one
The Man Who Said No to Wal-Mart:
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/...n_snapper.html


--
=()==()==()==()==()- http://fauxascii.com
\ \ \ \ \ \ ASCII artist
:F_P:-O- -O- -O- -O- -O- -O- -O-
\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \

George wrote:
>
> Yeff wrote:
> > Story he
> > <http://www.elementarychef.com/2006/10/22/mourning-the-demise-of-miracle-whip/>
> >
> > A Kraft employee responds: <http://instapundit.com/archives/033427.php>
> >
>
> And theres the answer from the second link for anyone who doesn't
> believe Walmart doesn't cause food to be reformulated or the quality
> reduced:
>
> "..every year the price that Wal*Mart and others want to buy it from us
> for goes down."

I am not a Walmart fan. I refuse to shop, just doing my bit to
try to stop this from becoming a Walmart world. Never the less, I
won't blame WalMart for the demise of food product. Some products
vary for different markets. I used to like grape Nuts cereal but
lost my taste for it. Then I discovered from a friend who loved
that cereal that they changed the recipe they use in Canada. The
Grape Nuts in the US used the old recipe. He used to go across
the border a few times a year and buy a case or two of it.


A Kraft employee should be one of the last to complain about a
product being dumbed down. I just checked out the web site for
Grape Nuts to see you the manufacturer is. It is Post Grape Nuts,
and Post is now owned by Kraft. The change has nothing to do with
WalMart because it happened years before WalMart started opening
stores here.

A few months ago we had a thread here about cookies and I
mentioned how Peek Freans and how their quality had recently gone
down the tubes. When I looked up their web site to find an
address to write a letter of complaint I realized the problem
immediately. They are now a branch of Kraft.

Kraft has never has a name for quality foods. They have had to
compete against other manufactures with similar products but have
managed to buy out a lot of that competition. Rather than have
their crappy Kraft products and a premium product with a
different brand name, they have lowered the standards for the
former premium brands and now offer two different Kraft quality
products.

Don't blame Walmart for a Kraft product tasting like shit. Stop
buying kraft And while you are at it, stop shopping at WalMart.
The little bit you save by shopping there is the little extra you
won't have when all employers and all customers are like WalMart.

Dave Smith wrote:

> Don't blame Walmart for a Kraft product tasting like shit. Stop
> buying kraft And while you are at it, stop shopping at WalMart.
> The little bit you save by shopping there is the little extra you
> won't have when all employers and all customers are like WalMart.

I don't shop there.

I think it is fair to blame Walmart. Since they are now the biggest
grocer they have enormous clout in what happens to product quality
because of their demands that anything they purchase must be cheaper
each time they purchase it no matter what.

A few weeks ago I was working at an automated packaging equipment
manufacturer. We got in the discussion about Walmart driving quality
down. The guy told me that they do work for meat packers. Walmart
pioneered the concept of selling adulterated meat as fresh. They have
the suppliers load the meat up with preservatives and water. This gives
them more weight and the "fresh meat" can be displayed for a month. He
said since packers had to put process lines in to make the adulterated
meat and Walmart was their major customer many decided to just run
adulterated meat. So now the adulterated meat is appearing in other
stores because there is lower availability of real fresh meat and other
stores think they need to lower themselves to Walmarts standards.

George wrote:
>
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > Don't blame Walmart for a Kraft product tasting like shit. Stop
> > buying kraft And while you are at it, stop shopping at WalMart.
> > The little bit you save by shopping there is the little extra you
> > won't have when all employers and all customers are like WalMart.
>
> I don't shop there.
>
> I think it is fair to blame Walmart. Since they are now the biggest
> grocer they have enormous clout in what happens to product quality
> because of their demands that anything they purchase must be cheaper
> each time they purchase it no matter what.

My point was the irony of the complaint about a Kraft product. I
have seen too many brands go down hill after Kraft took the over
to blame one of their customers rather than pinning the blame
right on Kraft itself.

Dave Smith > wrote:

>George wrote:
>>
>> Yeff wrote:
>> > Story he
>> > <http://www.elementarychef.com/2006/10/22/mourning-the-demise-of-miracle-whip/>
>> >
>> > A Kraft employee responds: <http://instapundit.com/archives/033427.php>
>> >
>>
>> And theres the answer from the second link for anyone who doesn't
>> believe Walmart doesn't cause food to be reformulated or the quality
>> reduced:
>>
>> "..every year the price that Wal*Mart and others want to buy it from us
>> for goes down."
>
>I am not a Walmart fan. I refuse to shop, just doing my bit to
>try to stop this from becoming a Walmart world. Never the less, I
>won't blame WalMart for the demise of food product. Some products
>vary for different markets.

Certainly - but one (declining quality) has nothing to do with the
other (varying markets).

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"George" > wrote in message
...
> Yeff wrote:
>> Story he
>> <http://www.elementarychef.com/2006/10/22/mourning-the-demise-of-miracle-whip/>
>>
>> A Kraft employee responds: <http://instapundit.com/archives/033427.php>
>>
>
> And theres the answer from the second link for anyone who doesn't believe
> Walmart doesn't cause food to be reformulated or the quality reduced:
>
> "..every year the price that Wal*Mart and others want to buy it from us
> for goes down."

Interesting theory made to fit the present group think . I realize of
course that fact should not interfere with a good conspiracy but you do have
to verify facts & not use an anon. source in the real world to have some
credibility.

Research why M/W came to be in the 30s, understand why it is not a Mayo and
now note Kraft changed their M/W recipe because of the public's health
consciousness about the Transfat issue, but more so to avoid legal issues in
CA. The new FDA labeling requirements started Jan 06 also came to play I 'm
sure. So now instead of Oil and Water as the two primary ingredients listed
first it is Water and Oil thanks to new technology methods of stabilizing
foods developed by the agribusiness guys and some of their newly acquired
European companies. ( mostly using a modified food starch, a protein whey or
some such form of the MSG family). If you care to go look in your grocery
aisle at traditional hydrogenised oil products you are going to see alot
more water as the primary ingredient being listed This is just one source
of that fact for the M/W disbelievers to verify:
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/cr...fats-0349.html I will leave
you to find the many others.

Still would like to hear verifiable fact about all that "adulterated" meat
packaging as started by Wal-Mart. How is it adulterated? Are you talking
about brining meat, adding nitrates to preserve it or adding Carbon
Monoxide to keep it red?

Gunner wrote:
>
> Research why M/W came to be in the 30s, understand why it is not a Mayo and
> now note Kraft changed their M/W recipe because of the public's health
> consciousness about the Transfat issue, but more so to avoid legal issues in
> CA. The new FDA labeling requirements started Jan 06 also came to play I 'm
> sure. So now instead of Oil and Water as the two primary ingredients listed
> first it is Water and Oil thanks to new technology methods of stabilizing
> foods developed by the agribusiness guys and some of their newly acquired
> European companies. ( mostly using a modified food starch, a protein whey or
> some such form of the MSG family). If you care to go look in your grocery
> aisle at traditional hydrogenised oil products you are going to see alot
> more water as the primary ingredient being listed This is just one source
> of that fact for the M/W disbelievers to verify:
> http://www.metroactive.com/papers/cr...fats-0349.html I will leave
> you to find the many others.

I doubt that MW ever used hydrogenated oils. I have an old jar that
still lists oil before water on the ingredient list, I'll check the
nutritional information more closely when I get home.

> Still would like to hear verifiable fact about all that "adulterated" meat
> packaging as started by Wal-Mart. How is it adulterated? Are you talking
> about brining meat, adding nitrates to preserve it or adding Carbon
> Monoxide to keep it red?

It's adulterated (they use the word "enhanced") with up to 12% by weight
of a sodium phosphate solution. You can read it on the labels. The
water increases the weight, and the phosphate makes the meat absorb the
water better (and the sodium makes it salty.) I buy very very little
meat at Walmart anymore -- just the occasional packer-cut whole brisket
or frozen turkey.

Best regards,
Bob

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message ...
> Gunner wrote:
>>
>> Research why M/W came to be in the 30s, understand why it is not a Mayo and
>> now note Kraft changed their M/W recipe because of the public's health
>> consciousness about the Transfat issue, but more so to avoid legal issues in
>> CA. The new FDA labeling requirements started Jan 06 also came to play I 'm
>> sure. So now instead of Oil and Water as the two primary ingredients listed
>> first it is Water and Oil thanks to new technology methods of stabilizing
>> foods developed by the agribusiness guys and some of their newly acquired
>> European companies. ( mostly using a modified food starch, a protein whey or
>> some such form of the MSG family). If you care to go look in your grocery
>> aisle at traditional hydrogenised oil products you are going to see alot
>> more water as the primary ingredient being listed This is just one source
>> of that fact for the M/W disbelievers to verify:
>> http://www.metroactive.com/papers/cr...fats-0349.html I will leave
>> you to find the many others.
>
> I doubt that MW ever used hydrogenated oils. I have an old jar that
> still lists oil before water on the ingredient list, I'll check the
> nutritional information more closely when I get home.
>
>> Still would like to hear verifiable fact about all that "adulterated" meat
>> packaging as started by Wal-Mart. How is it adulterated? Are you talking
>> about brining meat, adding nitrates to preserve it or adding Carbon
>> Monoxide to keep it red?
>
> It's adulterated (they use the word "enhanced") with up to 12% by weight
> of a sodium phosphate solution. You can read it on the labels. The
> water increases the weight, and the phosphate makes the meat absorb the
> water better (and the sodium makes it salty.) I buy very very little
> meat at Walmart anymore -- just the occasional packer-cut whole brisket
> or frozen turkey.
>
> Best regards,
> Bob

Thank you Bob,

As for the M/W issue, this is the Kraft Executive summary. pg. 15 states that M/W fat content was reduced by 30%: http://kraft.com/pdfs/ExecutiveSummary.pdf
As much as we like to kick the big dogs around, I don't believe that Kraft Global is so bad as we wish to make them out to be. I certainly do not think they to Wal-Mart. There are many other factors such as Agri- Biz and Farm subsidies,( sometimes one and the same), driving these things This is but one of the fat issues.

As to "adulterated meats. I have addressed brined meats with several store chains before with varying responses. It is a fact that brining does improve flavor and a good bit ( estimates of 70%) of pork and chicken is "enhanced" or adulterated as you say, especially Pork as it have been bred so lean up to now. I do brine Chicken and Turkey all the time and I have not seen a ham that has not been "enhanced" with salt and sugar in many years. So I do not consider it an adulteration as I do it all the time, but rather a chemical thumb on the scale to increase the weight by the 10%. Cheating, yes because I can do it cheaper and I do not want to pay for fillers but for most of America's needs it might be worth the price for convenience. It adds approx. a dollar to a 9.99 @ lb steak and a 1.80 to a 10 lb ham @ 1.79.
It is sad that Butchers are going the way of film as case ready meat is making its way into our system but again it is not Wal-mart driven it is the feedlot/packing houses and American buying habits. How often do you visit your local butcher's shop vs. your supermarket?
my best to you and yours

Hellman's for potato salad and Kraft's Miracle Whip for macaroni salad.
Wouldn't have it any other way.


"Yeff" > wrote in message
...
> Story he
>
<http://www.elementarychef.com/2006/1...of-miracle-whi
p/>
>
> A Kraft employee responds: <http://instapundit.com/archives/033427.php>
>
> --
>
> -Jeff B.
> zoomie at fastmail fm

No One wrote:
> Hellman's for potato salad and Kraft's Miracle Whip for macaroni salad.
> Wouldn't have it any other way.

When I was a kid, Mom and Grandma only made macaroni-and-potato salad.
What would you use in that case? (They used Miracle Whip exclusively,
btw.)

Nowadays I make potato salad, and only Hellman's appears in our house.
I grew up on Miracle Whip, but I saw the light in my mid-20s.

Cindy Hamilton