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Default Apfelstrudel

Nancy's recent post about apples inspired me.

I bought a bag of gingersnaps and thawed out the package of phyllo dough
that was in the freezer. I bought apples at the orchard about a week
ago (Honeygolds) and have about 3 pounds left. I was all set to make an
apple strudel tonight. I opened the package of phyllo dough, and it was
all dried out and crumbly. I cut it into 3 pieces with a bread knife
and gave them one-at-a-time to the dog. :-(

Next time I'll buy phyllo dough when I'm ready for it instead of leaving
a package in the deep-freezer for 6 years.

Maybe I'll buy some this weekend; I still have all those apples, and
half a bag of gingersnaps.

(Raisins, or no raisins?)

Best regards,
Bob
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zxcvbob wrote:
> Nancy's recent post about apples inspired me.
>
> I bought a bag of gingersnaps and thawed out the package of phyllo dough
> that was in the freezer. I bought apples at the orchard about a week
> ago (Honeygolds) and have about 3 pounds left. I was all set to make an
> apple strudel tonight. I opened the package of phyllo dough, and it was
> all dried out and crumbly. I cut it into 3 pieces with a bread knife
> and gave them one-at-a-time to the dog. :-(
>
> Next time I'll buy phyllo dough when I'm ready for it instead of leaving
> a package in the deep-freezer for 6 years.
>
> Maybe I'll buy some this weekend; I still have all those apples, and
> half a bag of gingersnaps.
>
> (Raisins, or no raisins?)


No raisins - walnuts.

-L.

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-L. wrote:
> zxcvbob wrote:
>> Nancy's recent post about apples inspired me.
>>
>> I bought a bag of gingersnaps and thawed out the package of phyllo dough
>> that was in the freezer. I bought apples at the orchard about a week
>> ago (Honeygolds) and have about 3 pounds left. I was all set to make an
>> apple strudel tonight. I opened the package of phyllo dough, and it was
>> all dried out and crumbly. I cut it into 3 pieces with a bread knife
>> and gave them one-at-a-time to the dog. :-(
>>
>> Next time I'll buy phyllo dough when I'm ready for it instead of leaving
>> a package in the deep-freezer for 6 years.
>>
>> Maybe I'll buy some this weekend; I still have all those apples, and
>> half a bag of gingersnaps.
>>
>> (Raisins, or no raisins?)

>
> No raisins - walnuts.
>
> -L.
>


Does that mean no-raisins and yes-walnuts, or "no" to both?

I found a web site that gives directions for making fresh strudel dough.
I think I'm gonna give that a try Saturday instead of buying frozen dough.

Bob
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zxcvbob wrote:

>
> Does that mean no-raisins and yes-walnuts, or "no" to both?
>
> I found a web site that gives directions for making fresh strudel
> dough. I think I'm gonna give that a try Saturday instead of buying
> frozen dough.
>
> Bob



Raisins, golden ones preferably and walnuts, too

Don't forget to brush each layer of dough with melted unsalted butter
and to sprinkle some unflavored breadcrumbs over it.

Forget about making your own strudel dough. It is not worth the
aggravation you will have when you try to pull it until it is thin
enough. It dries quickly and tears and you have to start all over
again. The frozen dough is better.


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zxcvbob wrote on 02 Nov 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> Nancy's recent post about apples inspired me.
>
> I bought a bag of gingersnaps and thawed out the package of phyllo dough
> that was in the freezer. I bought apples at the orchard about a week
> ago (Honeygolds) and have about 3 pounds left. I was all set to make an
> apple strudel tonight. I opened the package of phyllo dough, and it was
> all dried out and crumbly. I cut it into 3 pieces with a bread knife
> and gave them one-at-a-time to the dog. :-(
>
> Next time I'll buy phyllo dough when I'm ready for it instead of leaving
> a package in the deep-freezer for 6 years.
>
> Maybe I'll buy some this weekend; I still have all those apples, and
> half a bag of gingersnaps.
>
> (Raisins, or no raisins?)
>
> Best regards,
> Bob
>


Think dried cranberries (crasins) and walnuts...both go well with apples.
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Oh pshaw, on Fri 03 Nov 2006 03:17:17a, Margaret Suran meant to say...

>
>
> zxcvbob wrote:
>
>>
>> Does that mean no-raisins and yes-walnuts, or "no" to both?
>>
>> I found a web site that gives directions for making fresh strudel
>> dough. I think I'm gonna give that a try Saturday instead of buying
>> frozen dough.
>>
>> Bob

>
>
> Raisins, golden ones preferably and walnuts, too
>
> Don't forget to brush each layer of dough with melted unsalted butter
> and to sprinkle some unflavored breadcrumbs over it.
>
> Forget about making your own strudel dough. It is not worth the
> aggravation you will have when you try to pull it until it is thin
> enough. It dries quickly and tears and you have to start all over
> again. The frozen dough is better.


Margaret knows what she is talking about. Unless you're a practiced
strudel maker, your attempt at making the dough will probably be a
frustrating disappointment. Ditch the gingersnap crumbs and use the
unfalvored breadcrumbs as she suggested. Also, use the golden raisins
and walnuts, although I prefer mine without nuts.

--
Wayne Boatwright
__________________________________________________

That's one small step for a man, and a thousand
huge ones for a millipede.

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-L. wrote:
> zxcvbob wrote:
> > Nancy's recent post about apples inspired me.
> >
> > I bought a bag of gingersnaps and thawed out the package of phyllo dough
> > that was in the freezer. I bought apples at the orchard about a week
> > ago (Honeygolds) and have about 3 pounds left. I was all set to make an
> > apple strudel tonight. I opened the package of phyllo dough, and it was
> > all dried out and crumbly. I cut it into 3 pieces with a bread knife
> > and gave them one-at-a-time to the dog. :-(
> >
> > Next time I'll buy phyllo dough when I'm ready for it instead of leaving
> > a package in the deep-freezer for 6 years.
> >
> > Maybe I'll buy some this weekend; I still have all those apples, and
> > half a bag of gingersnaps.
> >
> > (Raisins, or no raisins?)

>
> No raisins - walnuts.
>
> -L.


raisins AND walnuts...

wish I had some to go with the morning coffee...

...fred

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"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
28.19...
> Oh pshaw, on Fri 03 Nov 2006 03:17:17a, Margaret Suran meant to say...


>> zxcvbob wrote:


>>> Does that mean no-raisins and yes-walnuts, or "no" to both?
>>>
>>> I found a web site that gives directions for making fresh strudel
>>> dough. I think I'm gonna give that a try Saturday instead of buying
>>> frozen dough.
>>>
>>> Bob


>> Raisins, golden ones preferably and walnuts, too
>>
>> Don't forget to brush each layer of dough with melted unsalted butter
>> and to sprinkle some unflavored breadcrumbs over it.
>>
>> Forget about making your own strudel dough. It is not worth the
>> aggravation you will have when you try to pull it until it is thin
>> enough. It dries quickly and tears and you have to start all over
>> again. The frozen dough is better.

>
> Margaret knows what she is talking about. Unless you're a practiced
> strudel maker, your attempt at making the dough will probably be a
> frustrating disappointment. Ditch the gingersnap crumbs and use the
> unfalvored breadcrumbs as she suggested. Also, use the golden raisins
> and walnuts, although I prefer mine without nuts.

--
> Wayne Boatwright


O.k., you guys. Now you've done it. I've got the raisins, walnuts, apples
and a new package of dough. And a bunch of rainy days ahead. Could someone
please give me a recipe or some directions? I got the part about butter
each layer and sprinkle with bread crumbs. What about the apple filling?
Thanks
Janet


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On Nov 3, 8:25 am, "Janet B." > wrote:
> you guys. Now you've done it. I've got the raisins, walnuts, apples
> and a new package of dough. And a bunch of rainy days ahead. Could someone
> please give me a recipe or some directions? I got the part about butter
> each layer and sprinkle with bread crumbs. What about the apple filling?
> Thanks
> Janet- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -


The Apple Filling is sliced apples, golden raisins, walnuts, and
breadcrumbs. Half a cup?
Roll up in Phyllo and bake. Baste with butter a few times. Take it
out when it's done. Sprinkle with powdered sugar, eat, take day-trip
to heaven.



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"Zywicki" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>
> On Nov 3, 8:25 am, "Janet B." > wrote:
>> you guys. Now you've done it. I've got the raisins, walnuts, apples
>> and a new package of dough. And a bunch of rainy days ahead. Could
>> someone
>> please give me a recipe or some directions? I got the part about
>> butter
>> each layer and sprinkle with bread crumbs. What about the apple filling?
>> Thanks
>> Janet- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

>
> The Apple Filling is sliced apples, golden raisins, walnuts, and
> breadcrumbs. Half a cup?
> Roll up in Phyllo and bake. Baste with butter a few times. Take it
> out when it's done. Sprinkle with powdered sugar, eat, take day-trip
> to heaven.
>

No sugar in the apple mixture? No spices? Thanks
Janet


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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> Oh pshaw, on Fri 03 Nov 2006 03:17:17a, Margaret Suran meant to say...
>
> >
> >
> > zxcvbob wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Does that mean no-raisins and yes-walnuts, or "no" to both?
> >>
> >> I found a web site that gives directions for making fresh strudel
> >> dough. I think I'm gonna give that a try Saturday instead of buying
> >> frozen dough.
> >>
> >> Bob

> >
> >
> > Raisins, golden ones preferably and walnuts, too
> >
> > Don't forget to brush each layer of dough with melted unsalted butter
> > and to sprinkle some unflavored breadcrumbs over it.
> >
> > Forget about making your own strudel dough. It is not worth the
> > aggravation you will have when you try to pull it until it is thin
> > enough. It dries quickly and tears and you have to start all over
> > again. The frozen dough is better.

>
> Margaret knows what she is talking about. Unless you're a practiced
> strudel maker, your attempt at making the dough will probably be a
> frustrating disappointment. Ditch the gingersnap crumbs and use the
> unfalvored breadcrumbs as she suggested. Also, use the golden raisins
> and walnuts, although I prefer mine without nuts.
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright
> __________________________________________________
>
> That's one small step for a man, and a thousand
> huge ones for a millipede.

I think it's worth a try...You need a large surface, like the whole
table. You should have someone help, and use your fists w/o rings or
watches- don't use fingers as you will poke a hole right thru it. If it
tears, pinch it back together. No matter how it looks, it will still
taste wonderful, and maybe you will have learned something along the
way.

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Margaret Suran wrote:

> Forget about making your own strudel dough. It is not worth the
> aggravation you will have when you try to pull it until it is thin
> enough. It dries quickly and tears and you have to start all over
> again.


You need moderate experience and the proper equipment to make
it work. It helps to have the proper size table, etc.

However, in the grand scheme of pastry techniques, making strudel
is actually not that hard. The problems you mention are easily
addressed if you have minimal competence handling pastry.

> The frozen dough is better.


Phyllo dough? You're joking right?

Phyllo dough hardly resembles real strudel dough. Phyllo comes
in small sheets, for one thing. Real strudel is made from one
continuous sheet that gives the final product a completely
different composition, texture, and appearance. It's integral
to the very idea of "strudel".

Real strudel cannot be made with phyllo. Shame on you!

--
Reg



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Reg wrote:
> Margaret Suran wrote:
>
>> Forget about making your own strudel dough. It is not worth the
>> aggravation you will have when you try to pull it until it is thin
>> enough. It dries quickly and tears and you have to start all over
>> again.

>
>
> You need moderate experience and the proper equipment to make
> it work. It helps to have the proper size table, etc.
>
> However, in the grand scheme of pastry techniques, making strudel
> is actually not that hard. The problems you mention are easily
> addressed if you have minimal competence handling pastry.
>
>> The frozen dough is better.

>
>
> Phyllo dough? You're joking right?
>
> Phyllo dough hardly resembles real strudel dough. Phyllo comes
> in small sheets, for one thing. Real strudel is made from one
> continuous sheet that gives the final product a completely
> different composition, texture, and appearance. It's integral
> to the very idea of "strudel".
>
> Real strudel cannot be made with phyllo. Shame on you!
>


The flour in the USA is different from the one in Europe and the dough
does not become elastic enough.

A couple of years ago, Rosie, a friend from Vienna came to New York
and stayed with me. One day she decided to make Apfelstrudel for
Marcel, my next door neighbor, Laura herself and me. We went shopping
for all the ingredients. I showed her the frozen Phyllo Dough at the
store, but she told me that making the authentic stuff was no problem.
None at all.

I was busily chopping and slicing apples while Rosie was kneading
the strudel dough. The large dinette table was covered with a fresh,
white all cotton tablecloth and my guest was wearing a protective
white apron, so that she could use her hands as well as her tummy to
stretch the dough. She rolled it out and started to stretch. The
dough would not stretch thinly enough before tearing and slivering.
Rosie gathered up the scraps repeatedly and tried again and again. I
want to mention that she makes Apfelstrudel or some other kind at
least once or twice a week when she is home. Finally, when the dough
no longer looked like anything remotely edible, she asked me go to the
store and get the frozen stuff.

At that time, the sheets of dough were quite large and were folded
several times to make them fit into the box. Each strudel was large
enough to be shaped into a "U" or horseshoe, so that it would fit on
to the cookie sheet on which Rosie baked it. The recipe she used made
two nice sized ones and they were really delicious. I will ask her
for the recipe, the next time I email her.

Until then, I will spend a fair amount of time standing in the corner
and feeling ashamed of myself. (
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On 2006-11-03, Margaret Suran > wrote:
> The flour in the USA is different from the one in Europe and the dough
> does not become elastic enough.


> stretch the dough. She rolled it out and started to stretch. The
> dough would not stretch thinly enough before tearing and slivering.


I remember quite vividly the cooking show originating from the CIA and
the episode highlighting classic Old World strudel. The very same
setup. Large buffet sized table with snow white tablecloth, huge mass
of dough stretched beyond my wildest imagination to latex-like
translucency, tubs of raisin/apple stuffing wrestled by struggling
students into a huge boa constrictor sized monstrosity, etc. I had no
idea. Obviously, they got the right flour from somewhere. Maybe you
could call and ask.

nb ...won't be making the real deal anytime soon.
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Margaret Suran wrote:
>
>
> Reg wrote:
>> Margaret Suran wrote:
>>
>>> Forget about making your own strudel dough. It is not worth the
>>> aggravation you will have when you try to pull it until it is thin
>>> enough. It dries quickly and tears and you have to start all over
>>> again.

>>
>>
>> You need moderate experience and the proper equipment to make
>> it work. It helps to have the proper size table, etc.
>>
>> However, in the grand scheme of pastry techniques, making strudel
>> is actually not that hard. The problems you mention are easily
>> addressed if you have minimal competence handling pastry.
>>
>>> The frozen dough is better.

>>
>>
>> Phyllo dough? You're joking right?
>>
>> Phyllo dough hardly resembles real strudel dough. Phyllo comes
>> in small sheets, for one thing. Real strudel is made from one
>> continuous sheet that gives the final product a completely
>> different composition, texture, and appearance. It's integral
>> to the very idea of "strudel".
>>
>> Real strudel cannot be made with phyllo. Shame on you!
>>

>
> The flour in the USA is different from the one in Europe and the dough
> does not become elastic enough.
>
> A couple of years ago, Rosie, a friend from Vienna came to New York and
> stayed with me. One day she decided to make Apfelstrudel for Marcel, my
> next door neighbor, Laura herself and me. We went shopping for all the
> ingredients. I showed her the frozen Phyllo Dough at the store, but she
> told me that making the authentic stuff was no problem. None at all.
>
> I was busily chopping and slicing apples while Rosie was kneading the
> strudel dough. The large dinette table was covered with a fresh, white
> all cotton tablecloth and my guest was wearing a protective white apron,
> so that she could use her hands as well as her tummy to stretch the
> dough. She rolled it out and started to stretch. The dough would not
> stretch thinly enough before tearing and slivering. Rosie gathered up
> the scraps repeatedly and tried again and again. I want to mention that
> she makes Apfelstrudel or some other kind at least once or twice a week
> when she is home. Finally, when the dough no longer looked like
> anything remotely edible, she asked me go to the store and get the
> frozen stuff.
>
> At that time, the sheets of dough were quite large and were folded
> several times to make them fit into the box. Each strudel was large
> enough to be shaped into a "U" or horseshoe, so that it would fit on to
> the cookie sheet on which Rosie baked it. The recipe she used made two
> nice sized ones and they were really delicious. I will ask her for the
> recipe, the next time I email her.
>
> Until then, I will spend a fair amount of time standing in the corner
> and feeling ashamed of myself. (



It must need bread flour instead of AP. Or maybe half bread flour and
half unbleached AP?

The biggest problem I see is finding an uncluttered table large enough
to roll/stretch the dough. :-/ (maybe the floor would work)

The dried-out phyllo dough that I gave to the dog last night was very
large sheets that were folded a couple of times. I think it would work
OK if it was fresher.

I'll buy a box of frozen dough *and* try experimenting with some fresh
homemade dough.

Best regards,
Bob
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Oh pshaw, on Fri 03 Nov 2006 06:25:47a, Janet B. meant to say...

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
> 28.19...
>> Oh pshaw, on Fri 03 Nov 2006 03:17:17a, Margaret Suran meant to say...

>
>>> zxcvbob wrote:

>
>>>> Does that mean no-raisins and yes-walnuts, or "no" to both?
>>>>
>>>> I found a web site that gives directions for making fresh strudel
>>>> dough. I think I'm gonna give that a try Saturday instead of buying
>>>> frozen dough.
>>>>
>>>> Bob

>
>>> Raisins, golden ones preferably and walnuts, too
>>>
>>> Don't forget to brush each layer of dough with melted unsalted butter
>>> and to sprinkle some unflavored breadcrumbs over it.
>>>
>>> Forget about making your own strudel dough. It is not worth the
>>> aggravation you will have when you try to pull it until it is thin
>>> enough. It dries quickly and tears and you have to start all over
>>> again. The frozen dough is better.

>>
>> Margaret knows what she is talking about. Unless you're a practiced
>> strudel maker, your attempt at making the dough will probably be a
>> frustrating disappointment. Ditch the gingersnap crumbs and use the
>> unfalvored breadcrumbs as she suggested. Also, use the golden
>> raisins and walnuts, although I prefer mine without nuts. -- Wayne
>> Boatwright

>
> O.k., you guys. Now you've done it. I've got the raisins, walnuts,
> apples and a new package of dough. And a bunch of rainy days ahead.
> Could someone please give me a recipe or some directions? I got the
> part about butter each layer and sprinkle with bread crumbs. What about
> the apple filling? Thanks
> Janet


Use this one as a guide, Janet. You may want a different amount of sugar,
depending on the sweetness of the apples. You may also want to slight
brown the bread crumbs before using them.

HTH

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________
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On 2006-11-03, zxcvbob > wrote:

> It must need bread flour instead of AP. Or maybe half bread flour and
> half unbleached AP?


I suspect "high gluten flour" is required.

http://www.amazon.com/Unbleached-Imp.../dp/B0007NC15W

nb


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notbob wrote:
> On 2006-11-03, zxcvbob > wrote:
>
>> It must need bread flour instead of AP. Or maybe half bread flour and
>> half unbleached AP?

>
> I suspect "high gluten flour" is required.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Unbleached-Imp.../dp/B0007NC15W
>
> nb




Maybe I'll just make an apple calzone...

Bob
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Margaret Suran wrote:

>
> The flour in the USA is different from the one in Europe and the dough
> does not become elastic enough.
>


Is your premise that American flour can't be used to make
strudel? That's quite a statement.

Many Americans regularly make strudel, and they use American
flour. You need to know which flour to use, and the more general
knowledge of pastry making you have the higher your chances of
success. Your dough can be made elastic with the flour you have
if you know how to do it.


> A couple of years ago, Rosie, a friend from Vienna came to New York and
> stayed with me. One day she decided to make Apfelstrudel for Marcel, my
> next door neighbor, Laura herself and me. We went shopping for all the
> ingredients. I showed her the frozen Phyllo Dough at the store, but she
> told me that making the authentic stuff was no problem. None at all.
>
> I was busily chopping and slicing apples while Rosie was kneading the
> strudel dough. The large dinette table was covered with a fresh, white
> all cotton tablecloth and my guest was wearing a protective white apron,
> so that she could use her hands as well as her tummy to stretch the
> dough. She rolled it out and started to stretch. The dough would not
> stretch thinly enough before tearing and slivering. Rosie gathered up
> the scraps repeatedly and tried again and again. I want to mention that
> she makes Apfelstrudel or some other kind at least once or twice a week
> when she is home. Finally, when the dough no longer looked like
> anything remotely edible, she asked me go to the store and get the
> frozen stuff.
>


A couple things here.

How long did you mix the dough? It needs to be silky smooth and
very, very well mixed.

Did you rest it? It should be rested between mixings (you'll do
best with two), and it needs to rest again before rolling it
out. At room temperature.

What type/brand of flour? Bread flour makes the dough easier
to handle, but the result isn't quite as tender. I normally
use unbleached all purpose, but it takes more experience
to work with it. The dough will be more fragile. The brand
of flour is also key. Very much so. For all purpose I've
gotten good results with King Arthur, not so good results
with Gold Medal.

I can assure you American flour makes fine strudel. It's
done all the time.

> At that time, the sheets of dough were quite large and were folded
> several times to make them fit into the box. Each strudel was large
> enough to be shaped into a "U" or horseshoe, so that it would fit on to
> the cookie sheet on which Rosie baked it. The recipe she used made two
> nice sized ones and they were really delicious. I will ask her for the
> recipe, the next time I email her.


This is part of the problem, I think. The reasons you weren't
successful are probably not going to be revealed in a recipe.
It has much more to do with technique and general pastry
making knowledge. Recipes rarely convey these.

--
Reg

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notbob wrote:
> On 2006-11-03, Margaret Suran > wrote:
> > The flour in the USA is different from the one in Europe and the dough
> > does not become elastic enough.

>
> > stretch the dough. She rolled it out and started to stretch. The
> > dough would not stretch thinly enough before tearing and slivering.

>
> I remember quite vividly the cooking show originating from the CIA and
> the episode highlighting classic Old World strudel. The very same
> setup. Large buffet sized table with snow white tablecloth, huge mass
> of dough stretched beyond my wildest imagination to latex-like
> translucency, tubs of raisin/apple stuffing wrestled by struggling
> students into a huge boa constrictor sized monstrosity, etc. I had no
> idea. Obviously, they got the right flour from somewhere. Maybe you
> could call and ask.
>
> nb ...won't be making the real deal anytime soon.

We did this as a demo when I was in school, and you are right about
method. If I remember, the dough did rip a few times, but if it's
pinched back together, it's fine after it's rolled up. A couple of
people helping makes a big difference. Do it!

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Default Apfelstrudel

On 2006-11-03, merryb > wrote:
> method. If I remember, the dough did rip a few times, but if it's
> pinched back together......


Same on the show. The dough ripped in a couple places and they just
pinched it back together. But, the overall impression was one of
amazement that flour dough could be stretch so thin.

nb
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