Here's an interesting account about working as this sto

http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html

"Useful Info" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>

It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've dealt
with numerous times.

Useful Info wrote:

> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>
> http://home.bitchfest.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>

I shop at their San Francisco location and couldn't be happier
with the store and the service. The staff is knowledgeable for
the most part, and quite helpful. I also have a friend who
works at HQ. He loves it and wouldn't work anywhere else.

--
Reg

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "Useful Info" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>>
>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>>
>
> It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
> friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've dealt
> with numerous times.
>
>
Interesting how two stores in a chain can be so different. At the
Safeway closest to me the managers regularly run registers or bag
groceries when it gets crowded . At another nearby store the managers
seem to his when the lines are long.

--
To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell

Reg wrote:
> Useful Info wrote:
>
> > Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
> >
> > http://home.bitchfest.net/~plutarch/ws.html
> >
>
> I shop at their San Francisco location and couldn't be happier
> with the store and the service. The staff is knowledgeable for
> the most part, and quite helpful. I also have a friend who
> works at HQ. He loves it and wouldn't work anywhere else.

I've been a happy W-S customer for many years. My only dispute with
them was some five years sago, about the difference between a
"monogram" and an "initial" regarding a door mat.... they advertized
monogramed but then charge per initial. A monogram by definition means
all the initials of ones name (typically three) produced in a manner
that they are intertwined as a single (mono) embellishment. A single
initial is not a monoGRAM. Actually just placing individual initials
on something is not a monogram. I had some very heated arguments with
their top brass, ripped them new orifices as only I can. You can't
advertise monogramed and then charge for each initial. I won. Now it
reads monogramed with up to three initials... of coure it's still
technically not a monogram but is an okay compromise.

At that time it was a gift for my brother, I ended up buying it at
Front Gate, the exact same mat was $10 less and the monogram was free.
Front Gate is a good company too. But then many Front Gate items are
for those with more dollars than brain cells.

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/produ...t&cm%5Fsrc=sch

Sheldon

Wha Wha Wha....

It sounds like you must me a male chovinistic pig... All your complaints are
againts women!
What harm would it have been to comply with their request for a doctors
note? They are entitled to have documentation for any disabilities! This
protects them from complaints against them from others saying that they are
favoring you. It also protects you! You now have documentation of your
limits. All this for a 35-50 dollar doctor's visit.
You are the type of whiners that make the rest of us disable people look
lazy! I am a disabled vetran and I do have limits as well, but, I have my
issues documented, so there is no doubt that I have these limits. It also
protects me from wrongful termination.

Stop your belly aching, stop spending your time trying to slander a company
that has a good rep (except from you) and get things documents and move on
with your life! If you don't like working there, then quit! They probably
don't want to terminate you becuase they fell that you may sue them (sounds
like you would from your attitude) and even if they ARE right, a wrongful
termination case does hurt, even if it was brought up wrongly.


"Useful Info" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:13:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> wrote:

>"Useful Info" > wrote in message
roups.com...
>> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>>
>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>>
>
>It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
>friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've dealt
>with numerous times.
>
I have a friend who *only* works as a seasonal employee for WS and she
loves it there.

--
See return address to reply by email

Sheldon wrote:
> I've been a happy W-S customer for many years. My only dispute with
> them was some five years sago, about the difference between a
> "monogram" and an "initial" regarding a door mat.... they advertized
> monogramed but then charge per initial. A monogram by definition means
> all the initials of ones name (typically three) produced in a manner
> that they are intertwined as a single (mono) embellishment. A single
> initial is not a monoGRAM.

According to Frontgate, it is.

> Actually just placing individual initials
> on something is not a monogram. I had some very heated arguments with
> their top brass, ripped them new orifices as only I can. You can't
> advertise monogramed and then charge for each initial. I won. Now it
> reads monogramed with up to three initials... of coure it's still
> technically not a monogram but is an okay compromise.
>
> At that time it was a gift for my brother, I ended up buying it at
> Front Gate, the exact same mat was $10 less and the monogram was free.
> Front Gate is a good company too. But then many Front Gate items are
> for those with more dollars than brain cells.

I have this: (Monogramed, per their description.)
http://www.frontgate.com/jump.jsp?so...=1&keyword=mat
I also have this:
http://www.frontgate.com/jump.jsp?so...=1&keyword=mat
Which is the only practical mat for Douglas Fir needles.

Their rugs are actually quite reasonable.

-L.

Abe > wrote:

> [ sfgeorge posts ]

>> Interesting how two stores in a chain can be so different. At the
>>Safeway closest to me the managers regularly run registers or bag
>>groceries when it gets crowded . At another nearby store the managers
>>seem to his when the lines are long.

>They his? What's that?

I read it as "At another store the managers seem to do this when..."

S.

In article .com>,
says...
> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>
>
Somehow I think that the story related may not be all that it seems. I
would guess that the OP is unhappy about something other than the
treatment at WS, or is just a troll.
--
Jerry Bank
Trenton, New Jersey
Music is the language of the gods.

<sf> wrote in message ...
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:13:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Useful Info" > wrote in message
groups.com...
>>> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>>>
>>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>>>
>>
>>It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
>>friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've dealt
>>with numerous times.
>>
> I have a friend who *only* works as a seasonal employee for WS and she
> loves it there.

This makes one wonder if the OP is just an impossible employee who looks for
trouble. The "can't lift heavy stuff" thing - why even apply for work at a
store that NEEDS employees to lift heavy boxes of dishes? Half the stuff in
the store is made of metal or china! Go work at a Hallmark store!

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
...
> <sf> wrote in message ...
>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:13:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>"Useful Info" > wrote in message
egroups.com...
>>>> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>>>>
>>>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
>>>friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've dealt
>>>with numerous times.
>>>
>> I have a friend who *only* works as a seasonal employee for WS and she
>> loves it there.
>
> This makes one wonder if the OP is just an impossible employee who looks
> for trouble. The "can't lift heavy stuff" thing - why even apply for work
> at a store that NEEDS employees to lift heavy boxes of dishes? Half the
> stuff in the store is made of metal or china! Go work at a Hallmark store!
>

No employer NEEDS employees to lift heavy things ... employers NEED to
provide safe means to lift heavy things so that employees don't injure
themselves. Sacrificing one's health is never needed to be employed.

Michael Legel wrote:

> No employer NEEDS employees to lift heavy things ... employers NEED to
> provide safe means to lift heavy things so that employees don't injure
> themselves. Sacrificing one's health is never needed to be employed.
>
Define "heavy"... cause a preschool teacher may certainly need to be
able to pick up a 50 pound kid when they fall off the swingset. A
cashier most certainly will be hauling a case of beers down the conveyer
belt and lift them into the shopping cart. My turning a bedbound patient
certainly can be labor intensive. That isn't too much to expect, but
this OP certainly is expecting that the heaviest thing he or she picks
up is a paycheck.
There are two sides of every story, and I suspect we've only heard on
very prejudiced version.

"Michael Legel" > wrote in message
news:%2Xah.14320$_x3.3395@trndny02...
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
> ...
>> <sf> wrote in message ...
>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:13:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Useful Info" > wrote in message
legroups.com...
>>>>> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>>>>>
>>>>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
>>>>friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've
>>>>dealt
>>>>with numerous times.
>>>>
>>> I have a friend who *only* works as a seasonal employee for WS and she
>>> loves it there.
>>
>> This makes one wonder if the OP is just an impossible employee who looks
>> for trouble. The "can't lift heavy stuff" thing - why even apply for work
>> at a store that NEEDS employees to lift heavy boxes of dishes? Half the
>> stuff in the store is made of metal or china! Go work at a Hallmark
>> store!
>>
>
> No employer NEEDS employees to lift heavy things ... employers NEED to
> provide safe means to lift heavy things so that employees don't injure
> themselves. Sacrificing one's health is never needed to be employed.

This is true. But, tell me: What "means" would you devise for lifting a 14"
x 14" x 14" box containing a dozen heavy dinner plates from a waist-high
shelf in the stock room to a waist level counter in the store? I mean, at
some point, the containers can't get any smaller. What if a customer wants
to buy that box of plates? Is the employee supposed to open the box in the
back room and bring the plates out two at a time?

"Bruce" <oleexpres.at.johnsonclan.net> wrote

> Wha Wha Wha....

I finally had to read what the story was when I read this note.

Whoever wrote the thing, I've worked with people like that before.
Workplace poison, always bitching about one thing or another. Who
would want them around? Everything is about them and how put upon
they are. And all that whining about the other employees vacation homes,
now that is someone who is jealous. Finally found someone who fits that
description.

nancy

Useful Info wrote:
> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html

I'll bet you had stupid teachers in school, didn't you.

Oh BOO HOO!! "Kindergarten baby, wash your face in gravy..." They're
soooo mean! You wish they all were dead!

Don't blame a company for setting standards you're not up to. If you
can't do the job, get a different one.

Steve Pope wrote:
>
> Abe > wrote:
>
> > [ sfgeorge posts ]
>
> >> Interesting how two stores in a chain can be so different. At the
> >>Safeway closest to me the managers regularly run registers or bag
> >>groceries when it gets crowded . At another nearby store the managers
> >>seem to his when the lines are long.
>
> >They his? What's that?
>
> I read it as "At another store the managers seem to do this when..."
>
> S.

I believe it's supposed to be "hide" as in the managers at some stores
hide when lines are long instead of doing something to resolve the
problem.

Pete C.

Nancy Young wrote:

> Whoever wrote the thing, I've worked with people like that before.
> Workplace poison, always bitching about one thing or another. Who
> would want them around? Everything is about them and how put upon
> they are. And all that whining about the other employees vacation homes,
> now that is someone who is jealous. Finally found someone who fits that
> description.

If you look at his website it gets even funnier. He's an architecture
student, and his area of interest is "using shipping containers as
architectural elements". Read: unhirable.

So he kind of the angry, starving artist type. I'm sure he's
a joy to work with.

--
Reg

"Reg" > wrote

> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> Whoever wrote the thing, I've worked with people like that before.
>> Workplace poison, always bitching about one thing or another. Who
>> would want them around? Everything is about them and how put upon
>> they are. And all that whining about the other employees vacation homes,
>> now that is someone who is jealous. Finally found someone who fits that
>> description.
>
> If you look at his website it gets even funnier. He's an architecture
> student, and his area of interest is "using shipping containers as
> architectural elements". Read: unhirable.
>
> So he kind of the angry, starving artist type. I'm sure he's
> a joy to work with.

(laugh!) That's funny. Rectangular box shapes in architecture, that hasn't
been done before. Yeah, he'd better get busy being successful so he
doesn't have to worry about accomplishing anything in anyone else's
workplace.

nancy

-L. wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > I've been a happy W-S customer for many years. My only dispute with
> > them was some five years sago, about the difference between a
> > "monogram" and an "initial" regarding a door mat.... they advertized
> > monogramed but then charge per initial. A monogram by definition means
> > all the initials of ones name (typically three) produced in a manner
> > that they are intertwined as a single (mono) embellishment. A single
> > initial is not a monoGRAM.
>
> According to Frontgate, it is.

Get rid of that superfluous comma, it makes you appear ignorant, not
someone to be taken seriously.

You miss the entire point, your abilty to comprehend is no different
from the moroons at W-S. Front Gate "personalizes" for free so there
was no real reason for my educating them on the difference between
initials and monograms. Had W-S used "personalized" and wanted to
charge per letter than I'd have no bitch, but their [incorrect] use of
"monogram" along with their charging for each initial made it a whole
nother ball game. I see Front Gate still uses "personalize" which is
correct. But W-S still insists on using the term "monogram"
*incorrectly* but does not charge per initial up to three (3) so at
least they're not ripping folks off 100%. But still they do not offer
monograms on any of their products... merely applying initials does not
a monogram make. I suppose W-S likes to flaunt "monogram" because it
is more in line with the upscale image they like to project, that they
are more intelligent then their competition, but the incorrect use of
big words projects the opposite... and that they're charging extra for
something they're not giving makes them sleazy.

Permit me to educate yoose further. Those mats are shipped directly
from a third party, says so at the web site (obviously they are
produced where those fibers grow by very poorly paid labor, probably
child labor). When an order is received by the third party (importer)
the initials are printed at the same time that the particular borders
are printed, there is no extra printing fee to the companies selling
the mats. So when the public is charged extra for adding initials they
are being ripped off and it's a windfall for the seller. Also there is
a tremendos mark up on products like those mats, probably costs less
than US$1 to produce one, all the rest of the price covers shipping and
huge profits... the sellers like Front Gate and W-S never even see
those mats, they don't even handle/package them, but I'll bet they
realize a profit of better than 2/3 the cost to the public, plus the
full amount of the money ripped off directly for intials. I wouldn't
mind paying for the initialing if all that money went to feed the
children who produce those mats.

Btw, you can buy those same woven coor door mats at Lowes for like $20,
just wont be personalized. Do yooe really think it costs more to print
"JANE DOE" than "WELCOME"?

http://www.askoxford.com/results/?vi...archtype=exact
http://tinyurl.com/y2368k

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogram

Sheldon

"Reg" > wrote in message
.. .
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> Whoever wrote the thing, I've worked with people like that before.
>> Workplace poison, always bitching about one thing or another. Who
>> would want them around? Everything is about them and how put upon
>> they are. And all that whining about the other employees vacation homes,
>> now that is someone who is jealous. Finally found someone who fits that
>> description.
>
> If you look at his website it gets even funnier. He's an architecture
> student, and his area of interest is "using shipping containers as
> architectural elements". Read: unhirable.
>
> So he kind of the angry, starving artist type. I'm sure he's
> a joy to work with.
> Reg
>

Probably a vegan, too.

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
...
> "Michael Legel" > wrote in message
> news:%2Xah.14320$_x3.3395@trndny02...
>>
>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> <sf> wrote in message ...
>>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:13:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Useful Info" > wrote in message
glegroups.com...
>>>>>> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
>>>>>friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've
>>>>>dealt
>>>>>with numerous times.
>>>>>
>>>> I have a friend who *only* works as a seasonal employee for WS and she
>>>> loves it there.
>>>
>>> This makes one wonder if the OP is just an impossible employee who looks
>>> for trouble. The "can't lift heavy stuff" thing - why even apply for
>>> work at a store that NEEDS employees to lift heavy boxes of dishes? Half
>>> the stuff in the store is made of metal or china! Go work at a Hallmark
>>> store!
>>>
>>
>> No employer NEEDS employees to lift heavy things ... employers NEED to
>> provide safe means to lift heavy things so that employees don't injure
>> themselves. Sacrificing one's health is never needed to be employed.
>
> This is true. But, tell me: What "means" would you devise for lifting a
> 14" x 14" x 14" box containing a dozen heavy dinner plates from a
> waist-high shelf in the stock room to a waist level counter in the store?
> I mean, at some point, the containers can't get any smaller. What if a
> customer wants to buy that box of plates? Is the employee supposed to open
> the box in the back room and bring the plates out two at a time?
>

Unless those plates weight in excess of 4 pounds each I suspect they aren't
all that heavy. And if they do ... then the employer shall do whatever it
takes to prevent the injury of employees and/or customers. It isn't rocket
science.

Reg > wrote:

>Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> Whoever wrote the thing, I've worked with people like that before.
>> Workplace poison, always bitching about one thing or another. Who
>> would want them around? Everything is about them and how put upon
>> they are. And all that whining about the other employees vacation homes,
>> now that is someone who is jealous. Finally found someone who fits that
>> description.
>
>If you look at his website it gets even funnier. He's an architecture
>student, and his area of interest is "using shipping containers as
>architectural elements". Read: unhirable.

Not to mention his anti-capitalist rant.

>So he kind of the angry, starving artist type. I'm sure he's
>a joy to work with.

That was my impression, from both the website and the essay, as well.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"Michael Legel" > wrote in message
news7%ah.11012$gJ1.95@trndny09...
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Michael Legel" > wrote in message
>> news:%2Xah.14320$_x3.3395@trndny02...
>>>
>>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> <sf> wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:13:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Useful Info" > wrote in message
oglegroups.com...
>>>>>>> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
>>>>>>friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've
>>>>>>dealt
>>>>>>with numerous times.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I have a friend who *only* works as a seasonal employee for WS and she
>>>>> loves it there.
>>>>
>>>> This makes one wonder if the OP is just an impossible employee who
>>>> looks for trouble. The "can't lift heavy stuff" thing - why even apply
>>>> for work at a store that NEEDS employees to lift heavy boxes of dishes?
>>>> Half the stuff in the store is made of metal or china! Go work at a
>>>> Hallmark store!
>>>>
>>>
>>> No employer NEEDS employees to lift heavy things ... employers NEED to
>>> provide safe means to lift heavy things so that employees don't injure
>>> themselves. Sacrificing one's health is never needed to be employed.
>>
>> This is true. But, tell me: What "means" would you devise for lifting a
>> 14" x 14" x 14" box containing a dozen heavy dinner plates from a
>> waist-high shelf in the stock room to a waist level counter in the store?
>> I mean, at some point, the containers can't get any smaller. What if a
>> customer wants to buy that box of plates? Is the employee supposed to
>> open the box in the back room and bring the plates out two at a time?
>>
>
> Unless those plates weight in excess of 4 pounds each I suspect they
> aren't all that heavy. And if they do ... then the employer shall do
> whatever it takes to prevent the injury of employees and/or customers. It
> isn't rocket science.


Are you saying that if the box of a dozen plates weighs more than 48 lbs, we
run into rules from OSHA or something?

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
...
> "Michael Legel" > wrote in message
> news7%ah.11012$gJ1.95@trndny09...
>>
>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Michael Legel" > wrote in message
>>> news:%2Xah.14320$_x3.3395@trndny02...
>>>>
>>>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> <sf> wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:13:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Useful Info" > wrote in message
ooglegroups.com...
>>>>>>>> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
>>>>>>>friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've
>>>>>>>dealt
>>>>>>>with numerous times.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a friend who *only* works as a seasonal employee for WS and
>>>>>> she
>>>>>> loves it there.
>>>>>
>>>>> This makes one wonder if the OP is just an impossible employee who
>>>>> looks for trouble. The "can't lift heavy stuff" thing - why even apply
>>>>> for work at a store that NEEDS employees to lift heavy boxes of
>>>>> dishes? Half the stuff in the store is made of metal or china! Go work
>>>>> at a Hallmark store!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No employer NEEDS employees to lift heavy things ... employers NEED to
>>>> provide safe means to lift heavy things so that employees don't injure
>>>> themselves. Sacrificing one's health is never needed to be employed.
>>>
>>> This is true. But, tell me: What "means" would you devise for lifting a
>>> 14" x 14" x 14" box containing a dozen heavy dinner plates from a
>>> waist-high shelf in the stock room to a waist level counter in the
>>> store? I mean, at some point, the containers can't get any smaller. What
>>> if a customer wants to buy that box of plates? Is the employee supposed
>>> to open the box in the back room and bring the plates out two at a time?
>>>
>>
>> Unless those plates weight in excess of 4 pounds each I suspect they
>> aren't all that heavy. And if they do ... then the employer shall do
>> whatever it takes to prevent the injury of employees and/or customers.
>> It isn't rocket science.
>
>
> Are you saying that if the box of a dozen plates weighs more than 48 lbs,
> we run into rules from OSHA or something?

I don't know the exact OSHA limitations without looking them up, but it is
only common sense that an employer doesn't need the headaches and law suits
involved with injured employees or customers caused by lifting too much.
Mostly I am saying ... Who in their right mind (or left one for that matter)
is going to want to deal with 4 pound dinner plates anyway? Obviously the
discussion ought to be about what are reasonable expectations for a safe
working environment.

Reg wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> Whoever wrote the thing, I've worked with people like that before.
>> Workplace poison, always bitching about one thing or another. Who
>> would want them around? Everything is about them and how put upon
>> they are. And all that whining about the other employees vacation
>> homes, now that is someone who is jealous. Finally found someone
>> who fits that description.
>
> If you look at his website it gets even funnier. He's an architecture
> student, and his area of interest is "using shipping containers as
> architectural elements". Read: unhirable.
>
> So he kind of the angry, starving artist type. I'm sure he's
> a joy to work with.

That's pretty funny. I read something in a magazine recently (Smithsonian,
I think it was) about an architect who planned to use shipping containers.
BUT, his idea is to use them to create inexpensive yet comfortable housing
for the homeless (through government programs, IIRC). Sort of like a
single-wide mobile home but not costing anything near what one of those
costs. Cheaper than a FEMA trailer, you can bet your boots. But he is
already a successful architect so he can pretty much put this idea out there
without worrying about whether it flies or not.

Jill

"Michael Legel" > wrote in message
news:1u%ah.9330$IW2.2881@trndny03...
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Michael Legel" > wrote in message
>> news7%ah.11012$gJ1.95@trndny09...
>>>
>>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Michael Legel" > wrote in message
>>>> news:%2Xah.14320$_x3.3395@trndny02...
>>>>>
>>>>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> <sf> wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:13:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Useful Info" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:1164668941.305436.256860@j72g2000cwa. googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
>>>>>>>>friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've
>>>>>>>>dealt
>>>>>>>>with numerous times.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a friend who *only* works as a seasonal employee for WS and
>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>> loves it there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This makes one wonder if the OP is just an impossible employee who
>>>>>> looks for trouble. The "can't lift heavy stuff" thing - why even
>>>>>> apply for work at a store that NEEDS employees to lift heavy boxes of
>>>>>> dishes? Half the stuff in the store is made of metal or china! Go
>>>>>> work at a Hallmark store!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No employer NEEDS employees to lift heavy things ... employers NEED to
>>>>> provide safe means to lift heavy things so that employees don't injure
>>>>> themselves. Sacrificing one's health is never needed to be employed.
>>>>
>>>> This is true. But, tell me: What "means" would you devise for lifting a
>>>> 14" x 14" x 14" box containing a dozen heavy dinner plates from a
>>>> waist-high shelf in the stock room to a waist level counter in the
>>>> store? I mean, at some point, the containers can't get any smaller.
>>>> What if a customer wants to buy that box of plates? Is the employee
>>>> supposed to open the box in the back room and bring the plates out two
>>>> at a time?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Unless those plates weight in excess of 4 pounds each I suspect they
>>> aren't all that heavy. And if they do ... then the employer shall do
>>> whatever it takes to prevent the injury of employees and/or customers.
>>> It isn't rocket science.
>>
>>
>> Are you saying that if the box of a dozen plates weighs more than 48 lbs,
>> we run into rules from OSHA or something?
>
> I don't know the exact OSHA limitations without looking them up, but it is
> only common sense that an employer doesn't need the headaches and law
> suits involved with injured employees or customers caused by lifting too
> much. Mostly I am saying ... Who in their right mind (or left one for that
> matter) is going to want to deal with 4 pound dinner plates anyway?
> Obviously the discussion ought to be about what are reasonable
> expectations for a safe working environment.
>

OK - so the number was arbitrary. Just as I thought. The point is that there
is always someone who will say something's too heavy, while another person
has no difficulty with it at all. The OP said "no heavy lifting", which is
also arbitrary.

Pete C. wrote:
> Steve Pope wrote:
>>
>> Abe > wrote:
>>
>>> [ sfgeorge posts ]
>>
>>>> Interesting how two stores in a chain can be so different. At the
>>>> Safeway closest to me the managers regularly run registers or bag
>>>> groceries when it gets crowded . At another nearby store the
>>>> managers seem to his when the lines are long.
>>
>>> They his? What's that?
>>
>> I read it as "At another store the managers seem to do this when..."
>>
>> S.
>
> I believe it's supposed to be "hide" as in the managers at some stores
> hide when lines are long instead of doing something to resolve the
> problem.
>
> Pete C.

(cross-posting removed)

I'm sure we've all encountered situations like that. How many times are the
lines at the grocery store outrageous but only 2-3 out of the 14 (for
example) are actually "open"? A good manager would either get more checkout
stations open or, lacking cashiers, pitch in and do the job him/herself.
I'm a firm believer that managers and supervisors should be able to do the
job they expect their employees to do.

Jill

On Nov 28, 12:53 pm, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> Pete C. wrote:
> > Steve Pope wrote:
>
> >> Abe > wrote:
>
> >>> [ sfgeorge posts ]
>
> >>>> Interesting how two stores in a chain can be so different. At the
> >>>> Safeway closest to me the managers regularly run registers or bag
> >>>> groceries when it gets crowded . At another nearby store the
> >>>> managers seem to his when the lines are long.
>
> >>> They his? What's that?
>
> >> I read it as "At another store the managers seem to do this when..."
>
> >> S.
>
> > I believe it's supposed to be "hide" as in the managers at some stores
> > hide when lines are long instead of doing something to resolve the
> > problem.
>
> > Pete C.(cross-posting removed)
>
> I'm sure we've all encountered situations like that. How many times are the
> lines at the grocery store outrageous but only 2-3 out of the 14 (for
> example) are actually "open"? A good manager would either get more checkout
> stations open or, lacking cashiers, pitch in and do the job him/herself.
> I'm a firm believer that managers and supervisors should be able to do the
> job they expect their employees to do.
>
> Jill- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Really? Seems superfluous to me -- if I can do the job, why should my
manager be able to do it? In the specific instance under discussion
here (a shortage of cashiers), it would perhaps be useful if the
manager ran a line, but even then I can see problems. What if a check
needs to be approved? Takes longer, because the manager has to finish
ringing whatever he/she's doing before coming over. Or what if there's
a need to override the computer's price on a sale item that didn't get
updated? Typically that requires a manager's key as well.

I'd much rather have a manager who knows how to manage then one who can
do my job.

In any event, outside of Christmas season sales, I rarely encounter
lines in any store I consider 'outrageous', so it's not a problem for
me.

wrote:
> On Nov 28, 12:53 pm, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> > Pete C. wrote:
> > > Steve Pope wrote:
> >
> > >> Abe > wrote:
> >
> > >>> [ sfgeorge posts ]
> >
> > >>>> Interesting how two stores in a chain can be so different. At the
> > >>>> Safeway closest to me the managers regularly run registers or bag
> > >>>> groceries when it gets crowded . At another nearby store the
> > >>>> managers seem to his when the lines are long.
> >
> > >>> They his? What's that?
> >
> > >> I read it as "At another store the managers seem to do this when..."
> >
> > >> S.
> >
> > > I believe it's supposed to be "hide" as in the managers at some stores
> > > hide when lines are long instead of doing something to resolve the
> > > problem.
> >
> > > Pete C.(cross-posting removed)
> >
> > I'm sure we've all encountered situations like that. How many times are the
> > lines at the grocery store outrageous but only 2-3 out of the 14 (for
> > example) are actually "open"? A good manager would either get more checkout
> > stations open or, lacking cashiers, pitch in and do the job him/herself.
> > I'm a firm believer that managers and supervisors should be able to do the
> > job they expect their employees to do.
> >
> > Jill- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
>
> Really? Seems superfluous to me -- if I can do the job, why should my
> manager be able to do it? In the specific instance under discussion
> here (a shortage of cashiers), it would perhaps be useful if the
> manager ran a line, but even then I can see problems. What if a check
> needs to be approved? Takes longer, because the manager has to finish
> ringing whatever he/she's doing before coming over. Or what if there's
> a need to override the computer's price on a sale item that didn't get
> updated? Typically that requires a manager's key as well.

In that case I'd have to fire the manager for failing to properly train
his crew and delegate authority. Any place that requires a particular
person to do a particular task is poorly managed. Consider if the
manager gets sick, or in an accident, do you really want to close the
store ? Unless someone besides the manager can do every single
function, then you have no choice.

>
> I'd much rather have a manager who knows how to manage then one who can
> do my job.

How can a manager manage when he or she doesn't know how well their
employees are performing ? I have worked for managers that only
managers, and managers that knew what they were managing, and in every
case the manager only types were pathetic in comparison. They were
unable to tell the difference between routine tasks and impossible
tasks. They were frequently fooled by employees that knew how to game
the statistical measures, and they never knew when to compliment or
reward the employees who made the near impossible tasks routine. As a
liaison between departments, they were almost an unmittigatable
disaster, causing friction and other political bullcrap because they
had no clue what they were talking about, and no clue what the
department was and was not capable of.

Dean G.

Dean G. wrote:
> wrote:
>> On Nov 28, 12:53 pm, "jmcquown" > wrote:
>>> Pete C. wrote:
>>>> I believe it's supposed to be "hide" as in the managers at some
>>>> stores hide when lines are long instead of doing something to
>>>> resolve the problem.
>>>
>>>> Pete C.
(cross-posting removed)
>>>
>>> I'm sure we've all encountered situations like that. How many
>>> times are the lines at the grocery store outrageous but only 2-3
>>> out of the 14 (for example) are actually "open"? A good manager
>>> would either get more checkout stations open or, lacking cashiers,
>>> pitch in and do the job him/herself. I'm a firm believer that
>>> managers and supervisors should be able to do the job they expect
>>> their employees to do.
>>>
>>> Jill- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
>>
>> Really? Seems superfluous to me -- if I can do the job, why should
>> my manager be able to do it? In the specific instance under
>> discussion here (a shortage of cashiers), it would perhaps be useful
>> if the manager ran a line, but even then I can see problems. What
>> if a check needs to be approved? Takes longer, because the manager
>> has to finish ringing whatever he/she's doing before coming over.
>> Or what if there's a need to override the computer's price on a sale
>> item that didn't get updated? Typically that requires a manager's
>> key as well.
>
>> I'd much rather have a manager who knows how to manage then one who
>> can do my job.
>
> How can a manager manage when he or she doesn't know how well their
> employees are performing ? I have worked for managers that only
> managers, and managers that knew what they were managing, and in every
> case the manager only types were pathetic in comparison.
(snippage)
> Dean G.

Exactly, Dean. I've had performance appraisals written by many a person who
couldn't sit down and do my job in a crunch. How the hell are they supposed
to judge whether I'm doing a poor, adequate or outstanding job when they
don't understand and can't do the job themselves?

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in
:

> Exactly, Dean. I've had performance appraisals written by many a
person who couldn't sit down and do my job in a crunch. How the hell are
they supposed to judge whether I'm doing a poor, adequate or outstanding
job when they don't understand and can't do the job themselves?

Two comments... one about a friends situation, the other about my own.

His situation: My friend is a programmer. He has had a dozen different
supervisors over the past 30 years. He complains bitterly that the WORST
supervisors he has had have been fellow programmers who were promoted to
management. Why? Because they can't MANAGE... but they love to
MICROmanage the work. They don't understand the nuances of management...
they don't know how to get things done in the company, and they don't
know how to do appraisals.

My situation: I currently manage a purchasing department for a
government IT contractor. We deal with a dozen different manufacturers.
To configure and order from them, you need a VERY intimate knowledge of
their product lines. Each of our ordering reps has a specialized
certification from two of the vendors so we have back up. The
certification involves anywhere between one and four tests on different
product lines and frequent refreshers as new products are introduced and
specs change. Because the wireless and security worlds are changing so
rapidly, the certifications need to be renewed every 1-2 years.

For me to be trained and stay certified on all dozen or so manufacturers
means I would spend at least 3-4 months a year in training and
recertification. That's a ridiculous amount of time for one person.

To do a proper performance review of someone, I don't NEED to know what
gizmo plugs in to the whatsits board. I need to know if the orders are
being placed in a timely manner, if our customer satisfaction rating is
being maintained, if costs are contained and if our profit margin is
being met. I need to know if the employee is following company
guidelines, if they are on time and ready to work and if there are any
"issues" that need to be resolved. I do NOT need to be able to do their
job.




.................................................. ...............
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
>>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

mrorwell wrote:

> "jmcquown" > wrote in
> :
>
> > Exactly, Dean. I've had performance appraisals written by many a
> person who couldn't sit down and do my job in a crunch. How the hell
> are they supposed to judge whether I'm doing a poor, adequate or
> outstanding job when they don't understand and can't do the job
> themselves?
>
> Two comments... one about a friends situation, the other about my own.
>
> His situation: My friend is a programmer. He has had a dozen
> different supervisors over the past 30 years. He complains bitterly
> that the WORST supervisors he has had have been fellow programmers
> who were promoted to management. Why? Because they can't MANAGE...
> but they love to MICROmanage the work. They don't understand the
> nuances of management... they don't know how to get things done in
> the company, and they don't know how to do appraisals.

Yeah. My supervisor isn't a programmer, she proably couldn't write code
to save her life. And that's just fine with me. That's MY job. Her's is
to plan the activities, collect status, clear obstacles for us, and
generally provide the environment for us to do what we do.




Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

"jmcquown" > wrote:

>That's pretty funny. I read something in a magazine recently (Smithsonian,
>I think it was) about an architect who planned to use shipping containers.
>BUT, his idea is to use them to create inexpensive yet comfortable housing
>for the homeless (through government programs, IIRC). Sort of like a
>single-wide mobile home but not costing anything near what one of those
>costs. Cheaper than a FEMA trailer, you can bet your boots.

If it's the same one I read (a little while back) they don't end up
being cheaper than a FEMA trailer while being considerably smaller and
more cramped.

The bulk of the cost of a trailer isn't in the structure - it's
primarily in the labor for all the wiring and piping and secondarily
in the labor for the finish work. Building this into a shipping
container turns out to make this *more* expensive, because they can no
longer work in a modular (assembly line) fashion.

>But he is already a successful architect so he can pretty much put this idea
>out there without worrying about whether it flies or not.

<nods> I saw another Famous Architect who proposed a similiar plan for
refugee camps, etc... to replace the tents commonly used. He was
astonished that various NGO's were not leaping to buy his design - it
seems to have never occured to him that his proposal cost (IIRC)
something like fifty times more than a tent, while being considerably
harder to store and ship.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

sf wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:13:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> > wrote:
>
>> "Useful Info" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>>>
>>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>>>
>>
>> It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
>> friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've
>> dealt with numerous times.
>>
> I have a friend who *only* works as a seasonal employee for WS and she
> loves it there.

He lost me at "old women."

mrorwell wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in
> :
>
>> Exactly, Dean. I've had performance appraisals written by many a
> person who couldn't sit down and do my job in a crunch. How the hell
> are they supposed to judge whether I'm doing a poor, adequate or
> outstanding job when they don't understand and can't do the job
> themselves?
>
> Two comments... one about a friends situation, the other about my own.
>
> His situation: My friend is a programmer. He has had a dozen
> different supervisors over the past 30 years. He complains bitterly
> that the WORST supervisors he has had have been fellow programmers
> who were promoted to management. Why? Because they can't MANAGE...
> but they love to MICROmanage the work. They don't understand the
> nuances of management... they don't know how to get things done in
> the company, and they don't know how to do appraisals.
>
Programmers are a different breed altogether. Their heads are stuck in the
technical, not the "business" end of things. They are itching to get their
hands on that program, hence the micromanagement. So I can see your point
there. They probably took the manager position to get a raise and bonuses
but you can't take the programmer out of them.

> My situation: I currently manage a purchasing department for a
> government IT contractor. We deal with a dozen different
> manufacturers. To configure and order from them, you need a VERY
> intimate knowledge of their product lines. Each of our ordering reps
> has a specialized certification from two of the vendors so we have
> back up. The certification involves anywhere between one and four
> tests on different product lines and frequent refreshers as new
> products are introduced and specs change. Because the wireless and
> security worlds are changing so rapidly, the certifications need to
> be renewed every 1-2 years.
>
(snippage)
> To do a proper performance review of someone, I don't NEED to know
> what gizmo plugs in to the whatsits board. I need to know if the
> orders are being placed in a timely manner, if our customer
> satisfaction rating is being maintained, if costs are contained and
> if our profit margin is being met. I need to know if the employee is
> following company guidelines, if they are on time and ready to work
> and if there are any "issues" that need to be resolved. I do NOT
> need to be able to do their job.
>
All depends on the job, of course. In my example, a grocery store, the
manager should be perfectly capable of manning a cash register or even
bagging groceries if need be. It's either that or see frustrated customers
walk out for lack of adequate help. And I know, because I've done exactly
that. (And yes, I called the store to complain afterwards.)

Jill

Janet Puistonen wrote:
> sf wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:13:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> "Useful Info" > wrote in message
>>> oups.com...
>>>> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>>>>
>>>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
>>> friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've
>>> dealt with numerous times.
>>>
>> I have a friend who *only* works as a seasonal employee for WS and
>> she loves it there.
>
> He lost me at "old women."

Obviously he's only about 21 years old. Anyone over 30 must seem terribly
old to him!

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> Janet Puistonen wrote:
>> sf wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:13:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Useful Info" > wrote in message
>>>> oups.com...
>>>>> Here's an interesting account about working as this sto
>>>>>
>>>>> http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/ws.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would be nice to know the location. The store here is staffed by
>>>> friendly, smart and helpful people, including the manager, who I've
>>>> dealt with numerous times.
>>>>
>>> I have a friend who *only* works as a seasonal employee for WS and
>>> she loves it there.
>>
>> He lost me at "old women."
>
> Obviously he's only about 21 years old. Anyone over 30 must seem terribly
> old to him!
>
> Jill
>
>

He has no idea what he's missing.

"jmcquown" > wrote in
:

> All depends on the job, of course.

That's all I was pointing out.

> It's either that or see frustrated customers walk out for lack of
adequate help. And I know, because I've done exactly that. (And yes, I
called the store to complain afterwards.)

As have I. I've called about that location several times. Last night,
they had one register open... and were running summaries on all of the self
checks. Nine people in line before they opened another register.



.................................................. ...............
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>>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
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On 29 Nov 2006 13:41:51 GMT, mrorwell <mrorwell> wrote:

> He complains bitterly that the WORST supervisors he has had
> have been fellow programmers who were promoted to management.
>Why? Because they can't MANAGE... but they love to MICROmanage
> the work.

OMG! You've just described my principal! She's a tree person, not a
forest person. Think: "Peter Principle".



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