I get a chuckle every time I read something like this.

"Terry" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I get a chuckle every time I read something like this.
>

Why?

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
...
> "Terry" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>I get a chuckle every time I read something like this.
>>
>
> Why?
Because absurdity is funny?
More so because the absurdee(s) (absurders) never get it.

"Terry" > scripsit in
ups.com:

> I get a chuckle every time I read something like this.

In my experienmce most native English speaking people (British,
Commonwealth and US whites for the most part) have a hard time with
languages other than English unless they live in the country where it
is spoken, and even then, it's touch and go.

In Canada we have a joke.

Q. What do you call someone who speaks three languages?
A. Trilingual

Q. What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
A. Bilingual

Q. What do you call someone who speaks only one language?
A. English

--

"There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in."

Leonard Cohen, Anthem

Michel Boucher wrote:
>
> "Terry" > scripsit in
> ups.com:
>
> > I get a chuckle every time I read something like this.
>
> In my experienmce most native English speaking people (British,
> Commonwealth and US whites for the most part) have a hard time with
> languages other than English unless they live in the country where it
> is spoken, and even then, it's touch and go.
>
> In Canada we have a joke.
>
> Q. What do you call someone who speaks three languages?
> A. Trilingual
>
> Q. What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
> A. Bilingual
>
> Q. What do you call someone who speaks only one language?
> A. English

That must be a Quebecois joke. I know lots of people who are
multilingual.

Dave Smith > scripsit in
:

> That must be a Quebecois joke. I know lots of people who are
> multilingual.

Ah, but how many speak French and English fluently?

--

"There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in."

Leonard Cohen, Anthem

In article . com>,
"Terry" > wrote:

> I get a chuckle every time I read something like this.

Bite me butthead...
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Michel Boucher wrote:
>
> Dave Smith > scripsit in
> :
>
> > That must be a Quebecois joke. I know lots of people who are
> > multilingual.
>
> Ah, but how many speak French and English fluently?

Several, including my son, are fluent in French and English.
Several of my neighbours speak English and Italian. My son and
several of my nieces and nephews are fluently bilingual. One
nephew's wife speaks English, French, Spanish and German. The
wife of another nephew speaks English, French, Hungarian, German
and Russian.
The lady next door speaks French and English, but her husband, a
French Canadian speaks no French, nor do their son and daughter.
I have a friend who was born in Quebec and educated in French
schools who does not speak French.... go figger. He thought he
could, but when we had an exchange student her from Quebec they
could not communicate.

In article >,
says...
> "Terry" > scripsit in
> ups.com:
>
> > I get a chuckle every time I read something like this.
>
> In my experienmce most native English speaking people (British,
> Commonwealth and US whites for the most part) have a hard time with
> languages other than English unless they live in the country where it
> is spoken, and even then, it's touch and go.
>
> In Canada we have a joke.
>
> Q. What do you call someone who speaks three languages?
> A. Trilingual
>
> Q. What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
> A. Bilingual
>
> Q. What do you call someone who speaks only one language?
> A. English
>
>
When I worked with a bunch of Canadians on a proposal we were preparing
for the govt. up there, I'd hear the term "francophone" a lot, as in,
"We *must* cater for francophones in the screen prompts". Whenever I
heard the term, I somehow always pictured the telephone Oscar Mayer used
when he made important calls from the Weinermobile.

I even prepared a fairly detailed drawing of what this Frankophone would
look like, but by some oversight, it never made it into the proposal.

Bob

yetanotherBob wrote:
>
>
> When I worked with a bunch of Canadians on a proposal we were preparing
> for the govt. up there, I'd hear the term "francophone" a lot, as in,
> "We *must* cater for francophones in the screen prompts". Whenever I
> heard the term, I somehow always pictured the telephone Oscar Mayer used
> when he made important calls from the Weinermobile.
>
> I even prepared a fairly detailed drawing of what this Frankophone would
> look like, but by some oversight, it never made it into the proposal.

Your image of a francohone and their image of themselves are
probably very different. :-)

In article >,
says...
> yetanotherBob wrote:
> >
> >
> > When I worked with a bunch of Canadians on a proposal we were preparing
> > for the govt. up there, I'd hear the term "francophone" a lot, as in,
> > "We *must* cater for francophones in the screen prompts". Whenever I
> > heard the term, I somehow always pictured the telephone Oscar Mayer used
> > when he made important calls from the Weinermobile.
> >
> > I even prepared a fairly detailed drawing of what this Frankophone would
> > look like, but by some oversight, it never made it into the proposal.
>
> Your image of a francohone and their image of themselves are
> probably very different. :-)
>
I dare say.

But needless to say, we lost the bid. Some *other* major U.S. aerospace
contractor got to descend into the purgatory of actually trying to do
what they said - in effect, "Hey, sure, no problem" - they could do for
our friends to the North.

Who knows how things might have gone had they included my drawing of the
Frankophone? Oscar knows, for sure, but he's not talking, eh?

;-)

Bob

In article >,
says...
> > I get a chuckle every time I read something like this.
>
> Bite me butthead...
>

This sounds like a response from a mentally retarded 13 year old - and I
do not think that's you. Am I wrong?

--
Peter Aitken

In article >,
says...
> On 21 Dec 2006 09:02:21 -0800, Terry wrote:
>
> > I get a chuckle every time I read something like this.
>
> English is by far more difficult to learn than Spanish. That is why in the
> USA we have to press one to continue in English, entiendo..
>
Whoa. Thank you! I always thought they were saying, "Press Juan to
continue in English".

This made sense to me, since you definitely want to encourage "Juan" to
stick with his studies of English, which, I've heard, is a difficult
language.

But now I'm left with the question: press one what?

Bob

OB Cooking: Does anyone here have an opinion on the FoodSaver products?

Dave Smith > scripsit in
:

> Several, including my son, are fluent in French and English.
> Several of my neighbours speak English and Italian. My son and
> several of my nieces and nephews are fluently bilingual. One
> nephew's wife speaks English, French, Spanish and German. The
> wife of another nephew speaks English, French, Hungarian, German
> and Russian.

And these people were born and educated in Manitoba? Their first
language was English? (I suspect not)

> The lady next door speaks French and English, but her husband, a
> French Canadian speaks no French, nor do their son and daughter.
> I have a friend who was born in Quebec and educated in French
> schools who does not speak French.... go figger. He thought he
> could, but when we had an exchange student her from Quebec they
> could not communicate.

It's called assimilation. We've been warned against that. The
population of New Hampshire is 33% of Québécois origin, but after four
or more generations of economic exile, less than 2% speak any French
and very few speak it fluently. The odd thing is they remember their
grandparents speaking French.

--

"There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in."

Leonard Cohen, Anthem

yetanotherBob > scripsit in
:

> When I worked with a bunch of Canadians on a proposal we were
> preparing for the govt. up there, I'd hear the term "francophone"
> a lot, as in, "We *must* cater for francophones in the screen
> prompts".

I doubt it actually said that, but if it did, I'd be very interested in
seeing it. There are fewer and fewer examples of such gauche language
left. One would get a good giggle out of it at the very least.

--

"There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in."

Leonard Cohen, Anthem

Mother of Chist I thought you AND Sheldon would be dead by now.

What's a Wolf to do?

Merry Chistmas.


Michel Boucher > wrote:

> Dave Smith > scripsit in
> :
>
> > Several, including my son, are fluent in French and English.
> > Several of my neighbours speak English and Italian. My son and
> > several of my nieces and nephews are fluently bilingual. One
> > nephew's wife speaks English, French, Spanish and German. The
> > wife of another nephew speaks English, French, Hungarian, German
> > and Russian.
>
> And these people were born and educated in Manitoba? Their first
> language was English? (I suspect not)
>
> > The lady next door speaks French and English, but her husband, a
> > French Canadian speaks no French, nor do their son and daughter.
> > I have a friend who was born in Quebec and educated in French
> > schools who does not speak French.... go figger. He thought he
> > could, but when we had an exchange student her from Quebec they
> > could not communicate.
>
> It's called assimilation. We've been warned against that. The
> population of New Hampshire is 33% of Québécois origin, but after four
> or more generations of economic exile, less than 2% speak any French
> and very few speak it fluently. The odd thing is they remember their
> grandparents speaking French.

Michel Boucher wrote:

> > Several, including my son, are fluent in French and English.
> > Several of my neighbours speak English and Italian. My son and
> > several of my nieces and nephews are fluently bilingual. One
> > nephew's wife speaks English, French, Spanish and German. The
> > wife of another nephew speaks English, French, Hungarian, German
> > and Russian.
>
> And these people were born and educated in Manitoba? Their first
> language was English? (I suspect not)

Toronto and Niagara.


> > The lady next door speaks French and English, but her husband, a
> > French Canadian speaks no French, nor do their son and daughter.
> > I have a friend who was born in Quebec and educated in French
> > schools who does not speak French.... go figger. He thought he
> > could, but when we had an exchange student her from Quebec they
> > could not communicate.
>
> It's called assimilation. We've been warned against that.

Yep.... years of French Catholic indoctrination about spiritual
and moral superiority that kept the people under their control.
Millions of people have immigrated to North America and learned
English to improve their lives but Quebcers (not all French
Canadians) are convinced that something bad will happen to them
if they learn to communicate with the rest of the continent and
the rest of the world. It would certainly mean a lack of jobs
for French Canadian writers and performers who have a captive
audience.


>The
> population of New Hampshire is 33% of Québécois origin, but after four
> or more generations of economic exile, less than 2% speak any French
> and very few speak it fluently. The odd thing is they remember their
> grandparents speaking French.

My neighbour is French but his family lived in Vermont, which is
why he doesn't speak French but his Quebec born wife does.


Speaking of fluent French... if you think French Canadians speak
fluent French you should ask the real French what they think of
it.





>
> --
>
> "There is a crack in everything,
> That's how the light gets in."
>
> Leonard Cohen, Anthem

In article >,
says...
>
> > When I worked with a bunch of Canadians on a proposal we were
> > preparing for the govt. up there, I'd hear the term "francophone"
> > a lot, as in, "We *must* cater for francophones in the screen
> > prompts".
>
> I doubt it actually said that, but if it did, I'd be very interested in
> seeing it. There are fewer and fewer examples of such gauche language
> left. One would get a good giggle out of it at the very least.
>
You're right. The request for proposal didn't say that at all, but the
marketing types who worked for the Canadian branch of the company
definitely did, in no uncertain terms. They somehow knew that the usual
American assumption that everyone speaks (or at least should speak)
English would not get us any points with certain key groups within the
customer agency.

This was back in the late 1980s, if that helps to put things into
perspective, and there were some pretty touchy union issue undercurrents
at work as well.

I didn't realize that "francophone" would be considered "gauche"
language. Cool.

Bob (somewhat adroit at being gauche)

Dave Smith > scripsit in
:

>> > Several, including my son, are fluent in French and English.
>> > Several of my neighbours speak English and Italian. My son and
>> > several of my nieces and nephews are fluently bilingual. One
>> > nephew's wife speaks English, French, Spanish and German. The
>> > wife of another nephew speaks English, French, Hungarian,
>> > German and Russian.
>>
>> And these people were born and educated in Manitoba? Their first
>> language was English? (I suspect not)
>
> Toronto and Niagara.

All those people were born in Toronto and Niagara? Are they all
related?

>> It's called assimilation. We've been warned against that.
>
> Yep.... years of French Catholic indoctrination about spiritual
> and moral superiority that kept the people under their control.

I see you've ingested the propaganda.

> Millions of people have immigrated to North America and learned
> English to improve their lives but Quebcers (not all French
> Canadians) are convinced that something bad will happen to them
> if they learn to communicate with the rest of the continent and
> the rest of the world.

Actually, that's not true, if it ever was. The Québécois want their
children to learn English because they're secure in their linguistic
majority status within Québec. The linguistic minorities in the rest
of Canada are the ones who are having problems.

Furthermore, Québec single-handledly produced more missionaries to go
live abroad between 1850 and 1960 than any other catholic nation. So
the fear that some have seen as being manipulated by the Church is not
substantiated by the facts.

> It would certainly mean a lack of jobs
> for French Canadian writers and performers who have a captive
> audience.

Yes, it certainly would be a shame if people expressed themselves
within the terms of their own culture. Shame on them.

> Speaking of fluent French... if you think French Canadians speak
> fluent French you should ask the real French what they think of
> it.

Actually, if you were to do the slog, you would find that the speech in
Québec is closely associated with the language spoken at the court of
Louis XIV. Whether it is fashionable or not is immaterial. It is
proper and correct French when spoken with the right jarnigouène.

After the war, Louis Jouvet, director of the Comédie française, decided
to "bring culture" to Québec and to put on Molière, something which in
his mind we had been sorely lacking (there was a theatre troupe in
every collège and they all played Molière). The actors played their
roles and as they have lost part of that language they no longer
understand the subtleties of the text they declaim. But when they
played it in Québec everybody laughed at parts the French did not
understand were jokes. That's because that language is familar to us.

And if you think we don't speak proper French, ask the people at the
ORTF what they think of Radio-Canada announcers and anchors like René
Lecavalier and Bernard Derome. These people are considered the
standards of proper broadcasting.

--

"There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in."

Leonard Cohen, Anthem

yetanotherBob > scripsit in
:

> I didn't realize that "francophone" would be considered "gauche"
> language. Cool.

Actually, it was the "must cater to" that would have been gauche.

--

"There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in."

Leonard Cohen, Anthem

This American is too lazy to read the rest of the thread.

But yes. "Stupid" might not be the right word, but maybe "unmotivated".
When I taught ESL in Chicago I met many multi-linguals - mostly not
out of intellectual curiosity, but out of neccessity.

Spanish IS the second language af the US. Most "Americans" are too too
isolated, arrogant or maybe stupid to learn a second language.

I've studied many, am fluent in none. Still hate the people who never
tried.

And I remember the drunk anglo kids in my neighborhood Chicago bodega
who thought they were cool tryng to address the Assyrian clerk with
their three words of high-school Spanish. Of course, he understood
them.

Yes. English is very fukd. The spelling makes no sense. The grammer is
a ******* of a dozen languages. Yet still it is the lingua franca, as
it were.

Maybe that's why. Whatever language you come in with, you might have as
much a clue as the dominant dutch (except Finnish and Korean - O haveno
idea how those people ever learn to talk to the english).


>
> On 21 Dec 2006 09:02:21 -0800, Terry wrote:
>
> > I get a chuckle every time I read something like this.
>
> English is by far more difficult to learn than Spanish. That is why in the
> USA we have to press one to continue in English, entiendo..

In article >, gazpachinator >
wrote:

> Yes. English is very fukd. The spelling makes no sense. The grammer is
> a ******* of a dozen languages. Yet still it is the lingua franca, as
> it were.

Now, now. English is the child of a dozen languages. It changes daily. I
learned what truthiness was in this very newsgroup; yet I speak English
natively and poorly it seems.
My Hispanic neighbors laugh when I spew high school Spanish at them. I'm
more interested in Spanish now than I was in the early sixties when I
had to take a language and nobody spoke Spanish in my town. I also had
German forced down my throat in college, because we were supposed to be
able to read the 'Beilstein Reference' for my major.
It's easier and more interesting when people actually speak a language
that you hear daily. That's Spanish where I live. I'm still miserable at
understanding it.

ObFood: I fried my wife a steak tonight with canned whole potatoes and
canned green beans. I did fry the canned potatoes until they were golden
brown. Occasionally, I regress for pure convenience er, Umm... I mean
nostalgia. She didn't seem to mind.

leo

--
<http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/>

In article >,
Peter A > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> > > I get a chuckle every time I read something like this.
> >
> > Bite me butthead...
> >
>
> This sounds like a response from a mentally retarded 13 year old - and I
> do not think that's you. Am I wrong?

He started a childish thread, I responded in kind...

I presumed it was in answer to the comment I made in another post where
I mentioned I'm trying to make a serious effort to learn/get better and
Spanish, so I took it personally.

I've been trying to get motivated for years. What finally did it was
hiring a yard guy that I REALLY like. He has an incredible work ethic,
does a fantastic job and does not charge anywhere near what a yard
service would, even tho' I generally pay him twice what he asks for
'cause I think he works too cheap. I also gave him a Christmas box of
food for his family this year...

I want to be able to communicate better with him and his English is only
slightly better than my very limited Spanish. It would also come in
handy if I ever wanted to hire any local day labor.

My neighbor, Robert, is fluently bi-lingual but he's not always around
to translate for me.

On that note, I will never never never recommend Berlitz! :-(
Intuitive learning only works if you actually have some translations
available if you can't figure out from the "scenarios" what a particular
word means. AND not all the words they use appear in that POS little
Spanish dictionary that came with the course!

I've got to go out and find a decent spanish textbook, then work with
some of my bi-lingual co-workers to translate some of it to Tex-mex.
They are more than willing to help me learn...
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
yetanotherBob > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> > On 21 Dec 2006 09:02:21 -0800, Terry wrote:
> >
> > > I get a chuckle every time I read something like this.
> >
> > English is by far more difficult to learn than Spanish. That is why in the
> > USA we have to press one to continue in English, entiendo..
> >
> Whoa. Thank you! I always thought they were saying, "Press Juan to
> continue in English".
>
> This made sense to me, since you definitely want to encourage "Juan" to
> stick with his studies of English, which, I've heard, is a difficult
> language.
>

Hell, many Americans don't even speak "English" right!

I was getting a tire repaired once by a British immigrant. We were just
talking and I don't recall the exact conversation, but I mentioned his
accent.

He put me in my place...

He said "I'm not the one that speaks English with an accent.
You are!"

;-)

Spanish does not appear to be all that difficult to learn, it's more a
matter of pure memorization, and getting used to gender, tense, verb,
adverb and noun usage. Descriptive words tend to be reversed. Example:

We'd say "Black dogs". They' say "Perro's negro... (dogs black)

It's a bit confusing at first, but easy to get used to.

English is such a mongrel language, there are too many exceptions to too
many "rules"!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Michel Boucher wrote

> In Canada we have a joke.
>
> Q. What do you call someone who speaks three languages?
> A. Trilingual
>
> Q. What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
> A. Bilingual
>
> Q. What do you call someone who speaks only one language?
> A. English

LOL, nice one, and it would fit well also if you wrote "Italian"
instead of "English".
--
Vilco
Think pink, drink rose'

Vilco wrote:
>
>
> LOL, nice one, and it would fit well also if you wrote "Italian"
> instead of "English".


You have spoken with my neighbours? They came here from Italy
in 1951, so they have been here only one year less than I have,
but I wasn't talking for a while after that so they have had more
opportunity to speak and learn English than I have. They are
wonderful people but they sound like they just got off the boat.

I know it's a cheap shot, but, as long as we're talking about language .
.. .

Leonard Blaisdell wrote:

>
> ObFood: I fried my wife

Dave Smith wrote:
>

>
> You have spoken with my neighbours? They came here from Italy
> in 1951, so they have been here only one year less than I have,
> but I wasn't talking for a while after that so they have had more
> opportunity to speak and learn English than I have. They are
> wonderful people but they sound like they just got off the boat.

I used to have a very interesting neighbor. I don't know where she came
from, but she was an old woman when I knew her. I think when she came
to Chicago she learned to speak "American" without realizing that
Spanish and English were differnt languages. Maybe she picked up the
Polish bits here as well. Besides those, I recognized German and
Russian words and grammer, all completely together mixed.

She got by. One of those aggressive old ladies who would see city
workers paving the street and get those strong young men to help her
move furniture.

Vilco wrote:
> Michel Boucher wrote
>
>
>> In Canada we have a joke.
>>
>> Q. What do you call someone who speaks three languages?
>> A. Trilingual
>>
>> Q. What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
>> A. Bilingual
>>
>> Q. What do you call someone who speaks only one language?
>> A. English
>>
>
> LOL, nice one, and it would fit well also if you wrote "Italian"
> instead of "English".
>
I used to work for an Italian firm, Umbra Cuscinetti, and my Italian
co-workers were all fluent in more than two languages. I felt a bit
linguistically challenged around them.

JD

Michel Boucher wrote:
>
> In my experienmce most native English speaking people (British,
> Commonwealth and US whites for the most part) have a hard time with
> languages other than English unless they live in the country where it
> is spoken, and even then, it's touch and go. [snip]

I think most language teachers would agree and would be able to posit a
variety of reasons for that. For one thing, English doesn't have close
language family members the way the Romance languages or the Slavic
languages, for example, do. If you speak Czech, say, you are already
in very familiar territory when you start to learn Serbo-Croatian. For
another, many languages (including the Romance and Slavic families) are
inflected, whereby the endings of words denote their use in
grammar/syntax. This is second nature to speakers of those languages
and yet a completely new concept to English speakers, where word order
is of paramount importance. And oddly enough, the sheer size of the
English vocabulary presents a problem when learning other languages
whose working vocabulary is significantly smaller. Where English may
have four words very closely related but subtly different in meaning,
many other languages have one or two words and the other connotations
have to be addressed with longer expressions. The English language
speaker/student gets frustrated by not being able to find the perfect
word.

The popularity of language learning in the U.S. waxes and wanes.
Currently it seems to be on the upswing. And when Americans do want to
learn another language they have the advantage, at least in the major
cities, of being able to find native speakers as teachers. The 2000
Census counted native speakers of over 170 languages in the U.S.,
including some 28 million Spanish speakers. So to the original troll,
one answer is that we stupid Americans can at least get expert
tutoring. -aem

In article >, says...
> This American is too lazy to read the rest of the thread.
>
> But yes. "Stupid" might not be the right word, but maybe "unmotivated".
> When I taught ESL in Chicago I met many multi-linguals - mostly not
> out of intellectual curiosity, but out of neccessity.
>
> Spanish IS the second language af the US. Most "Americans" are too too
> isolated, arrogant or maybe stupid to learn a second language.
>
> I've studied many, am fluent in none. Still hate the people who never
> tried.
>
> And I remember the drunk anglo kids in my neighborhood Chicago bodega
> who thought they were cool tryng to address the Assyrian clerk with
> their three words of high-school Spanish. Of course, he understood
> them.
>

I had three years of high school Spanish and even to this day can pick
out the general gist of conversational Spanish. However there are gaps
since what I learned was Castillian Spanish, what is spoken here varies
widely.