Craig Welch wrote:
>
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:44:48 -0400, Nancy Young
> > wrote:
>
> >> Apparently, the system in place at this restaurant was that if you wanted
> >> something you raised the statue upright - when the waiter had dealt with
> >> you, it was laid on its side again. So, it seems that some places already
> >> have the flag system, albeit in other forms <g>.
> >
> >Yeah, I just love dining in situations where you need to know the
> >secret handshake. How do they expect people to know if you don't
> >tell them?
>
> Did you miss the part where she said they were in a foreign country?

Did you miss the part where that is a really stupid way to assume
people know how to get attention?

You really are dim, aren't you.

nancy

Thanks for all the answers to my question about servers interupting
conversation to ask if everything is alright. I'm answering everyone in
this one post rather than going through with 20 separate posts answering
individually.

Some of you asked what sort of restaurant is was. I was talking
particularly about CPK (California Pizza Kitchen), which is, admittedly,
not fine dining, but the problem has shown itself in every restaurant I
can afford eating in even restaurants considerably nicer than CPK.
There's an exception. When we got the chance to visit France several
years ago, I loved the service in the restaurants. I'd heard about the
French garcon reputation for being snooty, but I didn't find it to be
true at all. Whether the restaurant was quite nice or very informal,
every meal had this wonderful, relaxed, feel about it because the wait
staff left us alone to eat. I've found that also to be true in New York
city.

Some of you gave me a choice between being interrupted while conversing
or not being able to find servers when they're needed. When you put it
that way, the interruption is preferable, but I think that's an unfair
choice. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, and I don't
believe getting it right requires supernatural mind reading powers. I'm
asking for common sense. The customers have ordered. They're half
through their meals. They're engaged in lively conversation. The
server comes to the table to fill water glasses. Common sense would
suggest that if the customers needed something, they'd ask the server
for it at that point without the server having to interrupt with the "is
everything O.K." question.

I'm seriously considering the suggestion to tell the server what my
definition of good service is when I sit down. "Hi, my idea of good
service is where you assume that I can read the menu for myself rather
than pointing out your suggestions to me, take the order, bring the
food, fill the water glass as needed and leave alone until you see that
we've stopped eating." I'm trying to practice that in my mind until it
sounds nice, rather than rude. I'll let you know it goes if/when I try it.

(Oh, and some of you need reading comprehension help, but I'm too polite
to point out that I got insults flung at me because the insulter hadn't
read and understood what I wrote in the first place.)

--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
news:KvOfb.688791$uu5.112026@sccrnsc04...
> It happened again tonight. We ate the first part of our meal in
> relative silence since we don't like to talk much as we eat. As we were
> slowing down, we started talking more. Only when we're in the middle of
> spirited conversation does the waiter or waitress come over to interupt
> to ask if everything is alright. I have to take my attention away from
> my dining companions to pay attention to her to reassure her that
> everything is fine. (Or it was fine until I was interrupted.)
>
> I was a waitress. I'm trying to be sympathetic to someone who has a
> rough job, but it is getting harder. Is it my imagination, or is it
> rude to walk straight up to people in the middle of conversation to
> interrupt them with some trivial question? Surely if there were
> something wrong, wouldn't that be obvious by the fact that I was looking
> around for the server trying to catch their eye?
>
> Is there a solution? May I explain that I'm in the middle of a
> conversation and don't wish to be interrupted? Would that do any good?
> I never take my irritation out on the servers' tip because even I'm
> not that cantankerous and because I know the servers would have no way
> of making the connection between their interruption and the lower tip.
>
> --Lia
>

My thoughts on this are that the wait staff was just trying to do their
job... In my very brief stint as a waitress (two weeks--I quit for being
overworked--were talkign not getting to leave for 5-6 hours after my shift
was to end, and the restaurant was mouse infested... horrible on the
tips...), it was drilled in to check on the customers unless they told us
they didn't want to be checked on... The staff doesn't have time to be
clarvoyent or to stand and observe your table to wait for the lull in the
convo to ask if you need something... Such behavior would elicit a firm
warning from the manager...

When I waited tables, I felt like I was constantly running back and forth,
trying to make sure all my tables, which were usually an abusrd number were
all at least decently cared for. It's was all about efficiency; I asked
when I was there because I might not be there in a few seconds, and the
guests might have wanted something when i wasn't there...

IMO, it wasn't rude of the waiters. I'm not sure how long it's been since
you've waitressed, but customers are ever more hard to take care of...
Everyone's alwasy "me, me, me, me"... The place I worked was understaffed,
and people had really more tables than they could watch out for... No one
has the time to stand around, try to figure out when the convo is slow, nor
are they mind readers. My suggestion is that maybe when the waitress first
stops by the table to get your drink order that you mention *ahead of time*
that you wish not to be interupted if your doing x, y, or z... Iif you need
her, you'll wave her down (and also if the situation comes up, explain to
the manager your request if the waitress gets a scolding--sometimes, if the
manager sees someone waving for service, they'll come up to the table all
aplogetic that their staff hadn't been checkign on you--this will keep the
waitress out of trouble). Most wait staff will be more than happy to honor
your request--if they know up front! People aren't mind readers... And,
afterall, most are trained to stop and ask rather than be flagged down...

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:55:04 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

> I
> think that just not disappearing so that I have to crane my neck
> for 10 minutes looking for you when I need another glass of wine
> or iced tea, whatever, I think that's better than asking me how
> everything is. If you're around and I don't try to catch your
> eye, yeah, everything is okay.
>
Well said.

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 22:27:24 GMT, Richard Periut
> wrote:


> And the question is not trivial. He/She is making sure he/she gives you
> A1 service, so that you can be satisfied and tip he/she good.
>
If the wait staff really cared about our well being, they
would keep our water glases filled at the very least. In my
experience, an abrupt "Is everything Okay?" is their way of
making up for ignoring us... which may or may not be their
fault. Perhaps management gave them too many tables to be
responsible for and not enough back up staff to keep the
customers, like me, happy.

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:21:12 GMT, Puester
> wrote:

> Julia Altshuler wrote:
> >
> > It happened again tonight. We ate the first part of our meal in
> > relative silence since we don't like to talk much as we eat. As we were
> > slowing down, we started talking more. Only when we're in the middle of
> > spirited conversation does the waiter or waitress come over to interupt
> > to ask if everything is alright. I have to take my attention away from
> > my dining companions to pay attention to her to reassure her that
> > everything is fine. (Or it was fine until I was interrupted.)
> >
>
>
> What one person perceives as rudeness, another
> may see as attentiveness. Is it worse to be
> interrupted or to search in vain for a server
> when you might need something? I'm sure it's
> a difficult call for a server who has to keep
> track of many tables.
>

That is the fault of management. Discreet hovering by the
staff means customers won't have to get up and do a chicken
dance just to get their wait staff's attention.

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 18:46:08 -0500, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 19:31:31 -0400, travis
> > wrote:
>
> >I like
> >them to serve the food and then bring the check by about 5 minutes
> >later and ask me if everything's ok right then, and then leave me
> >alone.
>
> Most people would complain that they'd feel rushed by being presented
> the check that soon after serving. It's customary for waitroids to
> ask if you'd like dessert as well.
>
That's a practice called "up selling" if you didn't know the
term already. It's done in all retail situations... that's
why sales people push accessories when women buy shoes and
if you try to buy lipstick, they show you eye shadow and
blush - for men, that's why you don't end up with just the
basic car you set out to buy.

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 19:29:00 +1000, Craig Welch
> wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:23:54 -0500, Steve Wertz
> > wrote:
> >
> >What if the table is enganged in conversation, though?
>
> They wait for a couple of moments. A lull in the conversation will
> follow. At that juncture, they can make their request. It's not that
> difficult, really.
>
Refill the water glasses and pass out the dessert menus -
there is no need to interrupt the conversation. If people
are engaged, they will usually order dessert and after
dinner drinks. But if the wait staff annoys them enough,
they'll just ask for the check and vamoose.

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:27:20 +1000, Craig Welch
> wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 06:04:26 GMT, Julia Altshuler
> > wrote:
>
> > Is it my imagination, or is it
> >rude to walk straight up to people in the middle of conversation to
> >interrupt them with some trivial question?
>
> It's not your imagination, it's quite rude.

I lay the blame at the feet of management. Obviously,
"discretion" training was minimal at best.

On 06 Oct 2003 13:05:59 GMT, (PENMART01)
wrote:
>
> But they can be expected to exhibit common courtesy... perhaps every restaurant
> table needs a call button, as is installed on hospital beds... then diners can
> expect to wait for the next shift to refill their coffee.
>
Perhaps waitstaff can be trained to keep a practiced eye on
the customers and anticipate when they want a refill. They
can always be "waved off", but what's the cost of a cup of
coffee compared to good customer relations.... especially in
this day & age???

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 03:42:30 GMT, Dog3
> wrote:

>
> I don't think courtesy was the issue here. The original poster did not
> want to be interrupted while engaged in conversation. I'd wager there are
> few waitperons that have time to stand and watch one table for a lull in
> conversation before checking back.

If they were well trained, they wouldn't need to wait for a
lull in the conversation and they would NEVER use that
phrase.

> IMO the common courtesy in this
> particular instance lies with the diner. A simple nod would have sufficed.
> If one can not hold the gist of a conversation in their head while nodding
> the head... well...
>
> Michael

sf > wrote in
:

> On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:21:12 GMT, Puester
> > wrote:
>
>> Julia Altshuler wrote:
>> >
>> > It happened again tonight. We ate the first part of our meal in
>> > relative silence since we don't like to talk much as we eat. As
>> > we were slowing down, we started talking more. Only when we're in
>> > the middle of spirited conversation does the waiter or waitress
>> > come over to interupt to ask if everything is alright. I have to
>> > take my attention away from my dining companions to pay attention
>> > to her to reassure her that everything is fine. (Or it was fine
>> > until I was interrupted.)
>> >
>>
>>
>> What one person perceives as rudeness, another
>> may see as attentiveness. Is it worse to be
>> interrupted or to search in vain for a server
>> when you might need something? I'm sure it's
>> a difficult call for a server who has to keep
>> track of many tables.
>>
>
> That is the fault of management. Discreet hovering by the
> staff means customers won't have to get up and do a chicken
> dance just to get their wait staff's attention.
>
>

I like doing the dance especially the part where you yell WAITER or SERVICE
real loud. Ensures good service for the rest of the meal.

On 6 Oct 2003 08:42:27 -0700, (Renee)
wrote:

> I think that I'd rather be bothered than be ignored. Happened to me
> last night. I hated to do it, but after begging for my check and then
> begging for my change, I simply left half of a torn dollar bill on the
> table. I'm hoping the message was understood.
>

That was cold.

On 6 Oct 2003 08:45:37 -0700, (will)
wrote:


>
> i have had that happen to me as a server in a restraunt i am currntly
> working at a local pizza hut and a few of the waitresses do not like
> doing there job when it has to be done. i have found my self doing
> there job when i have work to do myself

Believe me when I say this.... The regulars notice these
things and your tips will increase!

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 14:06:50 GMT, Rhonda Anderson
> wrote:

>
> Apparently, the system in place at this restaurant was that if you wanted
> something you raised the statue upright - when the waiter had dealt with
> you, it was laid on its side again. So, it seems that some places already
> have the flag system, albeit in other forms <g>.

That's a new one to me. The only "signal" I know in a
Chinese restaurant is to turn the top of the teapot over if
it needs refilling.

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:44:48 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

> Rhonda Anderson wrote:
>
> > A group of us had to go to Canberra for a conference a couple of weeks
> > away. First night there we went to an Irish pub for dinner where they used
> > the system where you order at the counter and are given a number to take
> > back to your table so they know where to bring the food.
>
> Yuck, I hate it. I expect service like that from a fast food place.
> I go to a restaurant, I want to sit down and have someone take my
> order. No, I wouldn't go there again. Talk about impersonal.
>
I wouldn't call a pub a "restaurant". I think the service
was probably about average.

My favorite Pub (Tommy's Joint) has a hofbrau style line,
which means you only tip the waitress when she gets you a
drink from the bar.

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:54:23 -0400, travis
> wrote:


>
> You know what drives me up the wall? The last two times I took my
> wife out to dinner to have a nice meal, somebody else decided to try
> to impress their business associate by taking them out to dinner and
> sat at a table next to us and BLAH BLAH BLAHed about business stuff
> the whole time we were trying to eat.

I don't understand the psychology behind it, but in the past
my husband has done that to me too. We were having a
perfectly fine conversation in normal tones, but when the
conversation turned to business all of a sudden he was
practically shouting. This is a guy who is super sensitive
to raised voices, but I felt like he was telling the world
his business (obviously good news or else he wouldn't have
done it).

Go figure.

>You know what drives me up the wall? The last two times I took my
>wife out to dinner to have a nice meal, somebody else decided to try
>to impress their business associate by taking them out to dinner and
>sat at a table next to us and BLAH BLAH BLAHed about business stuff
>the whole time we were trying to eat. I wish people who want to have
>a business dinner would let the person seating them know what they're
>up to so that they could be seated somewhere that would hopefully
>isolate them from the rest of the patrons so that we don't have to
>listen to them spew about how great the company is doing and how their
>fancy company car rides so smooth and all that crap. Sorry to rant.
>That kind of thing just really irks me.

You find this odd? I find this sort of experience is normal in the
USA - in restaurants, in aeorplanes, in public places of all sorts.
Americans talk about everything at the top of their voices and they
talk and talk and talk and talk.

Try eating at a middle of the road English restaurant. Unless there
are Americans present, you won't get any of what you describe!


TigsNona

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:41:03 +1000, Craig Welch >
wrote:

>On 06 Oct 2003 23:09:06 GMT, ospam (DJS0302) wrote:
>
>>Well I'm sure you were just the perfect waitress at all times. Perhaps you
>>should start teaching a course on how to wait tables and deal with snooty
>>customers such as yourself. You could teach new waiters how to read people's
>>minds so they would know whether a dining party wanted to be left alone during
>>most of the dinner or if they wanted the wait staff to constantly check to see
>>if anything else was needed.
>
>There are parts of the world where the notion that the waiter would
>interrupt the diners for any reason at all in the middle of the meal
>would be the strangest thing.

Yes where I live (New Zealand), it would be considered very strange.
The tradition here is that if the diner has some complaint or query,
then he or she will call the wait person. I always find it
disconcerting (and rude) that in some other countries the restaurants
(or their staff I'm not sure which) feel so insecure about either the
food or the sevice that they have to check up all the time!
>
>>Perhaps you might try a system where people can
>>call the waiters on their cell phones. As far as reducing the tip is
>>concerned, you were totally wrong for doing so. I only reduce the tip if the
>>waiter is definitely rude or unattentive. I don't consider interrupting a
>>conversation for two seconds to ask if the dinner is okay to be rude.
>
>And as you've no doubt read in this thread, many people *do*
>consider it to be rude ...

TigsNona

Oh, yes, and BTW in New Zealand it is simply not done to tip for
anything - not for any type of service, anywhere, anytime. Our
service staff here are paid a decent wage and do not expect to be
tipped. So, there is no history of tipping here I am thankful to
say. I think it is the same in Australia - I have never tipped there
and have never felt expected to.

I like it that way. Tipping is just too humiliating.

TigsNona

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 02:16:14 GMT, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

>
> Some of you gave me a choice between being interrupted while conversing
> or not being able to find servers when they're needed. When you put it
> that way, the interruption is preferable, but I think that's an unfair
> choice. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, and I don't
> believe getting it right requires supernatural mind reading powers. I'm
> asking for common sense. The customers have ordered. They're half
> through their meals. They're engaged in lively conversation. The
> server comes to the table to fill water glasses. Common sense would
> suggest that if the customers needed something, they'd ask the server
> for it at that point without the server having to interrupt with the "is
> everything O.K." question.
>
> I'm seriously considering the suggestion to tell the server what my
> definition of good service is when I sit down. "Hi, my idea of good
> service is where you assume that I can read the menu for myself rather
> than pointing out your suggestions to me, take the order, bring the
> food, fill the water glass as needed and leave alone until you see that
> we've stopped eating." I'm trying to practice that in my mind until it
> sounds nice, rather than rude. I'll let you know it goes if/when I try it.

While I agree with all of your observations and dislikes, I
contend that the wait staff only is reflecting what
management expects (has trained) them to do. A place like
CPK needs a high table turnover to make a profit, so it's
probably their policy to abruptly ask if everything is okay
and get on with business.

FYI: I've eaten there exactly ONCE. It was in Santa
Barbara, so they should have been on their best behavior and
the food should have been at the top of the game, but I
absolutely HATED IT. I won't waste my money in any CPK
again. AFAIC, it's okay for teens and college aged people,
but if you're looking for prepared food or good service, you
can forget about it. Stick your with your local owner
operated pizzarias for better food and service.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:38:03 +1000, Craig Welch
> shared the following:

>On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:54:23 -0400, travis
> wrote:
>
>>You know what drives me up the wall? The last two times I took my
>>wife out to dinner to have a nice meal, somebody else decided to try
>>to impress their business associate by taking them out to dinner and
>>sat at a table next to us and BLAH BLAH BLAHed about business stuff
>>the whole time we were trying to eat. I wish people who want to have
>>a business dinner would let the person seating them know what they're
>>up to so that they could be seated somewhere that would hopefully
>>isolate them from the rest of the patrons so that we don't have to
>>listen to them spew about how great the company is doing and how their
>>fancy company car rides so smooth and all that crap. Sorry to rant.
>>That kind of thing just really irks me.
>
>I really don't follow you. I would if you were complaining that they
>spoke too loud,

Sorry. I should have mentioned that in both instances they *did*
speak unnaturally loudly as if though they were somehow showing off.
BLAH BLAH OUR COMPANY IS GREAT AND MY COMPANY CAR IS THE BEST THERE IS
BLAH BLAH. Give me a break. Please. I'm not talking about lunch at
Golden Corral. I'm talking about in a nice, quiet restaraunt.

> or shouted into their cell phones, or had screaming
>children,

Please, let's not "go there" about the screaming children thing. :-)

>or similar. But to complain about the *topic* of their
>conversation is the silliest thing I've seen here yet.
>
>Do you similarly not want adjoining diners to talk about politics or
>religion?

I'd just like to be able to have my own quiet conversation with the
person I'm with, without intruding on other guests and would
appreciate the same courtesty from them. Yes, I similarly don't want
adjoining diners to talk about politics or religion or the bunion on
their foot of whatever if I have to hear it.


--
Travis
FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM*
http://bugadventures.dyndns.org
Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled.


:wq!

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 19:22:37 +1300, Tigsnona
> shared the following:

>
>>You know what drives me up the wall? The last two times I took my
>>wife out to dinner to have a nice meal, somebody else decided to try
>>to impress their business associate by taking them out to dinner and
>>sat at a table next to us and BLAH BLAH BLAHed about business stuff
>>the whole time we were trying to eat. I wish people who want to have
>>a business dinner would let the person seating them know what they're
>>up to so that they could be seated somewhere that would hopefully
>>isolate them from the rest of the patrons so that we don't have to
>>listen to them spew about how great the company is doing and how their
>>fancy company car rides so smooth and all that crap. Sorry to rant.
>>That kind of thing just really irks me.
>
>You find this odd?

Not odd. Rude.

> I find this sort of experience is normal in the
>USA - in restaurants, in aeorplanes, in public places of all sorts.
>Americans talk about everything at the top of their voices and they
>talk and talk and talk and talk.

If that happens to you everywhere you go in the USA then maybe you
should stay out of the USA. Simple. Effective. Everybody wins.

>
>Try eating at a middle of the road English restaurant. Unless there
>are Americans present, you won't get any of what you describe!
>
>
>TigsNona

Yep. All of us Americans are rude pigs and you're much better than we
are. Thank you for clearing that up for me with your blanket,
worthless generalization. *rolls eyes back in head*



--
Travis
FOR SALE: '63 VW Camo Baja... $1000 *FIRM*
http://bugadventures.dyndns.org
Words that soak into your ears are whispered, not yelled.


:wq!

(Renee)
>wrote:
>
>> I think that I'd rather be bothered than be ignored. Happened to me
>> last night. I hated to do it, but after begging for my check and then
>> begging for my change, I simply left half of a torn dollar bill on the
>> table. I'm hoping the message was understood.
>>
icu wrote ?:

>That was cold.
>
We had a similar sort of experience today. It was a nice fall day and we
wanted to go out for drinks on the patio of a place we have gone to for years.
This is just a burger joint, but they play only classical music and their
burgers get high ratings by reviewers every year, it seems (Denver isn't the
burger town, for sure). As we ordered our last drink we asked for our bill.
When the drink (we split a last beer) arrived, so did the bill, so I put out a
twenty and the waitress said she'd be back with change. She never came back,
although we saw other waiters going to and fro. We thought the shift had
changed or something. I said we should just go inside to the bar on our way
out and ask for our change. My husband said he'd go inside and take care of
it. He came back to the patio after 10 or so minutes. Our waitress had been
sitting at the bar talking to a friend or someone, and apparently two other men
were in line before my husband with some sort of similar complaint. Then we
had to wait another 10 minutes for our waitress to return with our change. She
gave us an abrupt apology and was off. We usually tip 20% even for drinks
alone, but I left one dollar, which was less than 10%.

We will go back there as we just like the place and usually have no problem
with service.

Yeah, Mr. Schidt, I'm sure you've been there before.

rharps.com

In article > , Dog3
> wrote:
(snip)
> Now, what bothers me in some upscale restaurants here is the
> suffocation of perfect service. A few months ago I went to an
> acclaimed restaurant in St. Louis which my family has frequented for
> years. I swear, if I even look like I'm pulling out a cigarette a
> waiter shows up with a lighter to light it.

You smoke? I'll bet your cardiologist loves that. "-)
Story: Nice restaurant in Denver -- Le Profil -- waiters were standing
around (not physically hovering and it must have been a not very busy
evening), and every time I put my fork down, ours made a move to remove
my plate. It made me nervous.
--
-Barb

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> Story: Nice restaurant in Denver -- Le Profil -- waiters were standing
> around (not physically hovering and it must have been a not very busy
> evening), and every time I put my fork down, ours made a move to remove
> my plate. It made me nervous.

(laugh) I took my ex inlaws out to a fancy restaurant that had a
smorgasbord (sp) every Friday night. Well, you never saw the waiters,
but every time you went back up for more food, you'd come back to
a clean, perfectly set table, with your linen napkin folded into
some fancy shape. Finally my conservative mil pipes up, I think the
waiter has a napkin fetish. I almost fell off my chair laughing.

It was kinda weird like you were being stalked, like you were under
scrutiny. No, I am so not complaining, that's good service.

nancy

Nancy Young > writes:
> (laugh) I took my ex inlaws out to a fancy restaurant that had a
> smorgasbord (sp) every Friday night. Well, you never saw the waiters,
> but every time you went back up for more food, you'd come back to
> a clean, perfectly set table, with your linen napkin folded into
> some fancy shape. Finally my conservative mil pipes up, I think the
> waiter has a napkin fetish. I almost fell off my chair laughing.

I had a hotel experience like that once, in that the room service was
very fast, very good, and very opportunistic... you wouldn't see them,
and they wouldn't knock on your door, but if you stepped out for as
little as five minutes (literally, I went to go grab a newspaper over
in the lobby), you'd come back to a room with fresh linens, a clean
and dry bathroom, vacuumed carpet, etc. A perfectly clean room.
Indeed, the first time it happened, I thought I had come back to the
wrong room, but there was my stuff, exactly where I left it[1]. I'm
still not sure how they pulled that off. I was tempted one morning to
do a setup to watch them work, but had other obligations.

This was in a resort hotel in Jackson Hole, WY. They got a good tip.

[1] I also like room service staff that knows not to mess with my
stuff---if I leave everything spread around so they can't clean, then
that's my problem.

--
Richard W Kaszeta

http://www.kaszeta.org/rich

"Dog3" > wrote in message
6...
> sf > deliciously posted in
> :
>
> > On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 03:42:30 GMT, Dog3
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I don't think courtesy was the issue here. The original poster did
> >> not want to be interrupted while engaged in conversation. I'd wager
> >> there are few waitperons that have time to stand and watch one table
> >> for a lull in conversation before checking back.
> >
> > If they were well trained, they wouldn't need to wait for a
> > lull in the conversation and they would NEVER use that
> > phrase.
>
> What phrase would you suggest? The diners closed their mouths for 10
> seconds? So, how does one train waitstaff to find a time when the diners
> are not engaged in some sort of conversation to check back? Then of
course
> there are the diners that say nothing during a meal and resent the check
> back intrusion, on and on and on. If a person wants no interaction with
> wait staff there is no point in dining out; Unless of course the entire
> staff has been alerted prior to your visit. Quite frankly, in my
> experience, the experienced diner has no qualm with the restaurant's
> training. The diner is there to enjoy the food and the experience. The
> waitstaff is part of that experience. If you don't want the social
> interaction with waitstaff, go to one of those homestyle buffets where
wait
> staff is very scarce.
>
> Michael
>

"Social interaction with waitstaff?" Are you joking? I most certainly do
*not* want any social interaction with them - rather I want a professional
waiter-diner interaction. The idea of interacting socially with the waiter
reminds me of the places were he will sit or crouch at your table, tell you
his name, and get all pally. Pul-lease!

If a waiter wants to check up on you there's no need to interrupt. All he
needs to do is come over and stand expectantly where he can be seen, saying
nothing. The diners can ignore him and continue with the conversation or
not, as they choose.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:35:45 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:


>"Social interaction with waitstaff?" Are you joking? I most certainly do
>*not* want any social interaction with them - rather I want a professional
>waiter-diner interaction. The idea of interacting socially with the waiter
>reminds me of the places were he will sit or crouch at your table, tell you
>his name, and get all pally. Pul-lease!

Reminds me of the places that have the server introduce themself and
write thier name on the table. I always take the crayon and write my
name and pass it along to the other guests. THERE!!! We're all
friends now. Can we get to the meal part? <lol>

Gar

In article >, Richard Kaszeta
> wrote:
(snip)
> I had a hotel experience like that once, in that the room service was
> very fast, very good, and very opportunistic... you wouldn't see them,
> and they wouldn't knock on your door, but if you stepped out for as
> little as five minutes (literally, I went to go grab a newspaper over
> in the lobby), you'd come back to a room with fresh linens, a clean
> and dry bathroom, vacuumed carpet, etc. A perfectly clean room.
> Indeed, the first time it happened, I thought I had come back to the
> wrong room, but there was my stuff, exactly where I left it[1]. I'm
> still not sure how they pulled that off. I was tempted one morning to
> do a setup to watch them work, but had other obligations.
>
> This was in a resort hotel in Jackson Hole, WY. They got a good tip.
>
> [1] I also like room service staff that knows not to mess with my
> stuff---if I leave everything spread around so they can't clean, then
> that's my problem.

Drifting sideways from the original post here, Rich: I stayed in a
hotel and when I returned to my cleaned room, I wasn't 100% sure it had
been cleaned. I asked at the desk and was told that if I'd left any
personal items (clothing) about, they would work around it and would not
touch my personal things. I think I'd left something on the bed.
Shoot, it was okay with me if they folded my clothes. :-)

On topically:

{ Masterfully and Mystically Exported from MasterCook Mac }

Doubletree Hotel Chocolate Chip Cookies

Recipe By: somebody named Todd Wilbur
Serving Size: 1
Preparation Time: 0:00
Categories: Cookies

Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method
1/2 cup rolled oats
2 1/4 cups all-purpose flour
1 1/2 teaspoons baking soda
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon cinnamon
1 cup butter softened
3/4 cup packed brown sugar
3/4 cup sugar
1 1/2 teaspoons vanilla
1/2 teaspoon lemon juice
2 eggs
3 cups semi-sweet chocolate chips
1 1/2 cups chopped walnuts

Preheat oven to 350 degrees.

Grind oats in a food processor or blender until fine. Combine the
ground oats with the flour, baking soda, salt, and cinnamon in a medium
bowl.

Cream together the butter, sugars, vanilla, and lemon juice in
another medium bowl with an electric mixer. Add the eggs and mix until
smooth.

Stir the dry mixture into the wet mixture and blend well. Add
the chocolate chips and nuts to the dough and mix by hand until
ingredients are well incorporated.

Spoon rounded 1/4-cup portions onto an ungreased cookie sheet. Place the
scoops about 2 inches apart. You don't need to press the dough flat.

Bake for 16 to 18 minutes or until cookies are light brown and soft in
the middle.

Store in a sealed container when cool to keep soft.

For the best results, chill the dough overnight in the refrigerator
before baking the cookies.

----------
Notes: Posted to r.f.c. by Minnie )

Per serving (excluding unknown items): 5296 Calories; 303g Fat (50%
calories from fat); 96g Protein; 579g Carbohydrate; 921mg Cholesterol;
6072mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 17 Starch/Bread; 7 1/2 Lean Meat; 10 Fruit; 55 Fat; 21
Other Carbohydrates
_____
--
-Barb

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:40:33 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Craig Welch wrote:
>
>>
>> >What if the table is enganged in conversation, though?
>>
>> They wait for a couple of moments. A lull in the conversation will
>> follow. At that juncture, they can make their request. It's not that
>> difficult, really.
>
>They might also try using the words "excuse me". :-)

quoted comment -- a busy server doesn't have time to hang around
(which would surely be interpreted as eavesdropping) waiting for a
conversational pause. last comment: I agree.

Nancy Young > wrote in
:

> Rhonda Anderson wrote:
>
>> A group of us had to go to Canberra for a conference a couple of
>> weeks away. First night there we went to an Irish pub for dinner
>> where they used the system where you order at the counter and are
>> given a number to take back to your table so they know where to bring
>> the food.
>
> Yuck, I hate it. I expect service like that from a fast food place.
> I go to a restaurant, I want to sit down and have someone take my
> order. No, I wouldn't go there again. Talk about impersonal.
>

The number system is quite common here now in coffee shop type places and
pubs etc. I wouldn't expect it in a nice restaurant, of course. It's an
improvement over the system in place in many pubs/club bistros where there
is no table service at all. You get given a number, and you need to either
keep an ear out for that number being called, or keep an eye on the screen
where the numbers flash up - then you go to collect the meal. Have been to
one pub bistro where they gave you a pager, and when your meal was ready to
collect the pager went off (vibrated, from memory, I don't think it beeped)
- that was better in that you couldn't really miss it, and your attention
didn't have to be away from the table.

I wouldn't expect any more table service than the take the number to the
table sort in a pub or club here. It's bistro food usually, fairly
inexpensive, but often very good basic fare. The food at the place in
Canberra was certainly tasty. That pub is a decent size, and you can eat
your meal at any of the tables within the pub, which is sort of divided
into separate rooms. I would imagine it would be quite difficult to have
full table service where you can't even see if people have arrived or not,
or whether they're just there to drink or to eat as well.

--
Rhonda Anderson
Penrith, NSW, Australia

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:44:48 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>Rhonda Anderson wrote:
>
>> A group of us had to go to Canberra for a conference a couple of weeks
>> away. First night there we went to an Irish pub for dinner where they used
>> the system where you order at the counter and are given a number to take
>> back to your table so they know where to bring the food.
>
>Yuck, I hate it. I expect service like that from a fast food place.
>I go to a restaurant, I want to sit down and have someone take my
>order. No, I wouldn't go there again. Talk about impersonal.

What do we go to restaurants for? Uninterrupted conversation? A
genteel social occasion? Super food? Convenience? There are bezillions
of restaurants that feature meals on paper plates, or famously rude
personnel (some deli in NYC comes to mind) but superior pastrami, or
waiters on rollerskates as entertainment, or cheap family meal
specials, or uniformly reliable chain food, or the ultimate gourmet
experience with 'European' service (on a good night).

Years ago, I got really tired of restaurants with salad bars -- I
don't want to stand in line with a plate; I want someone to serve me a
salad. When I go through a fast food drive-in lane, I want cheap,
*fast* food. When I pay $50 for a meal, I want food I can't/don't cook
at home, and a waiter who will retrieve a dropped napkin in under a
minute. If a 'soup nazi' offers a product I enjoy, I can decide
whether I want to stand in line for the soup.

We can read the reviews and get recommendations from friends. It'd be
nice if Burger King's 99-cent specials were served with perfect
gentility. Not likely to happen. (Can you say "minimum wage"?)

I don't want to grill my own steak, construct my own salad, have
waitstaff sing 'Happy Birthday', or play violins at my table. I
rarely, if ever, can afford celebrated 'fine dining' experiences, so I
go for pretty good food I don't have to prepare, at a reasonable
price. 'Take a number' sounds fair to me.

Hark! I heard Melba's Jammin' > say:
> In article > , Dog3
> > wrote:

> (snip)
> > Now, what bothers me in some upscale restaurants here is the
> > suffocation of perfect service. A few months ago I went to an
> > acclaimed restaurant in St. Louis which my family has frequented for
> > years. I swear, if I even look like I'm pulling out a cigarette a
> > waiter shows up with a lighter to light it.
>
> You smoke? I'll bet your cardiologist loves that. "-)
> Story: Nice restaurant in Denver -- Le Profil -- waiters were standing
> around (not physically hovering and it must have been a not very busy
> evening), and every time I put my fork down, ours made a move to remove
> my plate. It made me nervous.

Funny, I'm just the opposite about that -- Hubby and I went to Ruth's
Chris Steak House in Seattle a couple of years ago:

http://www.ruthschris.com/

I didn't get all that excited about the food (they cut their filets
too thick, IMHO), but the wait staff was top notch. When they weren't
actively waiting a table, they were watching the dining area, looking
for someone who might need something. I loved having my water refilled
repeatedly without having to ask. Though I guess the "plate removal"
thing Barb mentioned would get annoying after a while. I'd probably
start teasing the waiter -- you know, almost put the fork down, but
not quite; put it down them pick it up as soon as he walked over. No
wonder Dad says I'm evil... ;-)


--
j*ni p. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~
...fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!

"j*ni p." > wrote in message
...
> Hark! I heard Melba's Jammin' > say:
> > In article > , Dog3
> > > wrote:
>
> > (snip)
> > > Now, what bothers me in some upscale restaurants here is the
> > > suffocation of perfect service. A few months ago I went to an
> > > acclaimed restaurant in St. Louis which my family has frequented for
> > > years. I swear, if I even look like I'm pulling out a cigarette a
> > > waiter shows up with a lighter to light it.
> >
> > You smoke? I'll bet your cardiologist loves that. "-)
> > Story: Nice restaurant in Denver -- Le Profil -- waiters were standing
> > around (not physically hovering and it must have been a not very busy
> > evening), and every time I put my fork down, ours made a move to remove
> > my plate. It made me nervous.
>
> Funny, I'm just the opposite about that -- Hubby and I went to Ruth's
> Chris Steak House in Seattle a couple of years ago:
>
> http://www.ruthschris.com/
>
> I didn't get all that excited about the food (they cut their filets
> too thick, IMHO), but the wait staff was top notch. When they weren't
> actively waiting a table, they were watching the dining area, looking
> for someone who might need something. I loved having my water refilled
> repeatedly without having to ask. Though I guess the "plate removal"
> thing Barb mentioned would get annoying after a while. I'd probably
> start teasing the waiter -- you know, almost put the fork down, but
> not quite; put it down them pick it up as soon as he walked over. No
> wonder Dad says I'm evil... ;-)
>

These's a long-standing rule of etiquette that deals with this situation
perfectly. Fork and knife at an angle on the plate (at 4 and 8 o'clock e.g.)
means you are still eating. Fork and knife together, next to one another,
you are done. THis seems to have gone out of vogue because it is amazing how
few people and waiters know about it.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Frogleg wrote:
>
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:44:48 -0400, Nancy Young

> What do we go to restaurants for? Uninterrupted conversation? A
> genteel social occasion? Super food? Convenience? There are bezillions
> of restaurants that feature meals on paper plates, or famously rude
> personnel (some deli in NYC comes to mind) but superior pastrami, or
> waiters on rollerskates as entertainment, or cheap family meal
> specials, or uniformly reliable chain food, or the ultimate gourmet
> experience with 'European' service (on a good night).
>
> Years ago, I got really tired of restaurants with salad bars -- I
> don't want to stand in line with a plate; I want someone to serve me a
> salad.

I'm with you. Once I sit down, I want to stay that way until it's
time to leave. Having said that, there was this one restaurant that
had a nice salad bar and I'd order that for lunch once in a while.
I knew I'd have to go get it, but threading my way to the salad bar
wasn't really my idea of a good time.

> When I go through a fast food drive-in lane, I want cheap,
> *fast* food. When I pay $50 for a meal, I want food I can't/don't cook
> at home, and a waiter who will retrieve a dropped napkin in under a
> minute. If a 'soup nazi' offers a product I enjoy, I can decide
> whether I want to stand in line for the soup.
>
> We can read the reviews and get recommendations from friends. It'd be
> nice if Burger King's 99-cent specials were served with perfect
> gentility. Not likely to happen. (Can you say "minimum wage"?)

All I expect is some hustle and no attitude.

> I don't want to grill my own steak, construct my own salad, have
> waitstaff sing 'Happy Birthday', or play violins at my table. I
> rarely, if ever, can afford celebrated 'fine dining' experiences, so I
> go for pretty good food I don't have to prepare, at a reasonable
> price.

Nothing wrong with that, though I just got an iffy lunch today. Eh,
I wasn't really hungry, I was there for the company. No, I
specifically do not wish for people to sing to me.

I have been to my share of 'fine dining' restaurants, but they are
not my style. I prefer pub type places, you know, with a bar and
tables, usually dark, casual. I vastly prefer to sit at the bar,
so you go find two seats and cop a squat. If I'm going to sit at
a table, I want someone to take me to my table or pick one out if
that's how it is. Then, I want the person assigned to that table
to come take my drink order, then my food order suitably later.

> 'Take a number' sounds fair to me.

I seriously don't want to go stand someplace and place my order and
be given a number. That doesn't fly with me. It's not a place
I would frequent.

nancy

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 14:06:50 GMT, Rhonda Anderson
> wrote:
>
>Apparently, the system in place at this restaurant was that if you wanted
>something you raised the statue upright - when the waiter had dealt with
>you, it was laid on its side again. So, it seems that some places already
>have the flag system, albeit in other forms <g>.

There are restaurant chains in the states (e.g., Panchos Mexican
Buffet) that have the flag system. Whenever you want something, you
raise the little flag on your table.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:02:23 -0400, Nancy Young
> wrote:

>Frogleg wrote:
>>
>
>> 'Take a number' sounds fair to me.
>
>I seriously don't want to go stand someplace and place my order and
>be given a number. That doesn't fly with me. It's not a place
>I would frequent.
>
>nancy

That type of restaurant is becoming more and more popular in my area.
One version is to stand in line, place your order, pay, then someone
brings your food out to you (or in some places, you go retrieve your
food).

Another version is to stand in line, place your order, get a slip with
your printed order on it for you to take to your table, then hand that
slip to a server, who then brings your food out to you (and handles
anything else you might order, like additional drinks, desserts,
etc.). When you're finished with your meal, the server brings you a
check, and you pay the server.

Mary

sf wrote:

> FYI: I've eaten there exactly ONCE. It was in Santa
> Barbara, so they should have been on their best behavior and
> the food should have been at the top of the game, but I
> absolutely HATED IT. I won't waste my money in any CPK
> again. AFAIC, it's okay for teens and college aged people,
> but if you're looking for prepared food or good service, you
> can forget about it. Stick your with your local owner
> operated pizzarias for better food and service.


I first tried California Pizza Kitchen when they opened in Fort
Lauderdale. We loved it. We went so often that the manager recognized
us, and the waitresses treated us like real people. They skipped their
scripts and didn't act like automatons. I was pleased with the food and
liked the way I could make a meal out of appetizers, order as little or
as much I wanted to eat.

I'm in New England now. I don't care for the CPK here and avoid going,
but it is the only restaurant in a mall, and there are some things we
buy in malls though I like to avoid them too. Come to think of it, we
were in the mall the other night for the express purpose of getting a
few items before the Xmas decorations and dreaded Xmas carols started.

--Lia

MareCat wrote:
>
> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:02:23 -0400, Nancy Young
> > wrote:
>
> >Frogleg wrote:
> >>
> >
> >> 'Take a number' sounds fair to me.
> >
> >I seriously don't want to go stand someplace and place my order and
> >be given a number. That doesn't fly with me. It's not a place
> >I would frequent.
> >
> >nancy
>
> That type of restaurant is becoming more and more popular in my area.
> One version is to stand in line, place your order, pay, then someone
> brings your food out to you (or in some places, you go retrieve your
> food).
>
> Another version is to stand in line, place your order, get a slip with
> your printed order on it for you to take to your table, then hand that
> slip to a server, who then brings your food out to you (and handles
> anything else you might order, like additional drinks, desserts,
> etc.). When you're finished with your meal, the server brings you a
> check, and you pay the server.

All the fun of eating out taken away. Thanks, but no thanks.

nancy