well, the subject line says it all.

anyone found any good veal or beef stocks on the market? How does their
price compare with making your own? I am thinking of buying 50 pounds of
veal bones, making 1/3 into white stock, and 2/3 into brown stock, then
making some brown sauce and demiglace.

aside from my time (I donate that for free), what is the cost comparison?

thanks.

"Gil Faver" > wrote in message
...
> well, the subject line says it all.
>
> anyone found any good veal or beef stocks on the market? How does their
> price compare with making your own? I am thinking of buying 50 pounds of
> veal bones, making 1/3 into white stock, and 2/3 into brown stock, then
> making some brown sauce and demiglace.
>
> aside from my time (I donate that for free), what is the cost comparison?
>
> thanks.
>

I like to make mine, but I don't know if I'd go out of my way if I didn't
already have the makings for it. You can control the veg and herb
concentrations. If find carcass, water, onion, celery, salt, and pepper to
be sufficient for flavoring, everything else can be added to the final
product. I'm not a fan of complex spice combinations. I find those are
part of the perview of the preparar of the final product in which one uses
the stock. Taste is subjective. You have to test around to find a base you
like for buying.

--

Yours,
Dan S.

Temporary sig pending inspiration:

- If I did all the things that will "only" take {X} minutes per day, it
would take three days to do them all.

Gil Faver wrote:

> well, the subject line says it all.
>
> anyone found any good veal or beef stocks on the market? How does their
> price compare with making your own? I am thinking of buying 50 pounds of
> veal bones, making 1/3 into white stock, and 2/3 into brown stock, then
> making some brown sauce and demiglace.
>
> aside from my time (I donate that for free), what is the cost comparison?
>
> thanks.
>
>

There's no such thing as a "good" commercial stock, at best they are
mediocre to passable.

The depth and richness produced by the process you are contemplating
compares favourably to purchasing pre made, especially when one factors
quality into the equation.

And when i wrote that there is no such thing as "good" commercially
available stocks or glaces i was not considering those that may be
purchased from speciality shops, gourmet food stores and sometimes
restaurants, because then, these "gourmet" stocks while very good are
very expensive and not widely or easily available.

The mere fact that you are contemplating making the type of stocks you
describe suggests to me you would be pleased with both the cost and
results of the process.

Are you interested in August Escoffier's instructions (recipes)?
--
JL

"Gil Faver" > wrote in message
...
> well, the subject line says it all.
>
> anyone found any good veal or beef stocks on the market? How does their
> price compare with making your own? I am thinking of buying 50 pounds of
> veal bones, making 1/3 into white stock, and 2/3 into brown stock, then
> making some brown sauce and demiglace.
>
> aside from my time (I donate that for free), what is the cost comparison?
>
> thanks.
>
I think the answer is no! There aren't any good commercial veal or beef
stocks on the market. There is decent veal concentrate made in France. It's
expensive, and hard to find. Once you've found it and ordered it, it may or
not be OK.
I recently got back into making my own stock, and reducing it to a
demiglace, after about a 15 year hiatus.
At our local market, I can get the veal leftovers free. That's a big plus.
However all of the beef parts are worth at least $1/lb in CA. If I want to
make a beef/veal brown sauce for steak or other beef dishes I have to buy
the beef bones and knuckles. I always throw in at least half veal bones for
added richness. Beef by itself is pretty flat.
Other than that, it's a good Saturday adventure to get into. Find a good
recipe. I use the fond brun recipe from the Larousse Gastronomique and forge
away.
I always brown the bones with onion and carrot in the oven first and add
water after.
Writing this makes me want to run to the kitchen and do it again.
Good Luck to you,

Kent

On 2007-01-01, Joseph Littleshoes > wrote:

> Are you interested in August Escoffier's instructions (recipes)?

....or Gary Danko's recipe he used when at the SF Ritz-Carlton:

http://tinyurl.com/y3ryqq

Bring $$$!

nb

"notbob" > wrote in message
news
> On 2007-01-01, Joseph Littleshoes > wrote:
>
>> Are you interested in August Escoffier's instructions (recipes)?
>

yes, sure!

> ...or Gary Danko's recipe he used when at the SF Ritz-Carlton:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y3ryqq
>

I already had found that one! Thanks for your vote of confidence.

> Bring $$$!
>
> nb

Kent wrote:
> "Gil Faver" wrote:
> > well, the subject line says it all.
> >
> > anyone found any good veal or beef stocks on the market? How does their
> > price compare with making your own? I am thinking of buying 50 pounds of
> > veal bones, making 1/3 into white stock, and 2/3 into brown stock, then
> > making some brown sauce and demiglace.
> > aside from my time (I donate that for free), what is the cost comparison?
> >
> I think the answer is no! There aren't any good commercial veal or beef
> stocks on the market. There is decent veal concentrate made in France.

Commercially prepared stocks are generally sad (and who knows what/who
is in them), those made in france are the very worst, what with all
their filthy crotched food handlers, be sure you've been vaccinated
against everything.

Stock is the least expensive thing you can make, and time... stock
essentially makes itself... and the larger the amount the less it costs
per unit, as well as less time.


Sheldon

Curiously ... Escoffier sort of half way endorses the making and use in
ordinary cooking, of vegetable essences, highly reduced vegetable stocks.
--
JL

Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
> Curiously ... Escoffier sort of half way endorses the making and use in
> ordinary cooking, of vegetable essences, highly reduced vegetable stocks.
> --
> JL

Pacific brand low-sodium organic vegetable broth is quite good. I use
it in many dishes - particularly to make a sauce for stir-fry.
http://www.pacificfoods.com/products-broths.php

-L.

"Gil Faver" > wrote in message
...
> well, the subject line says it all.
>
> anyone found any good veal or beef stocks on the market? How does their
> price compare with making your own? I am thinking of buying 50 pounds of
> veal bones, making 1/3 into white stock, and 2/3 into brown stock, then
> making some brown sauce and demiglace.
>
> aside from my time (I donate that for free), what is the cost comparison?
>
> thanks.

The Demi Glace Gold is pretty good However for one quarter the price I can
make the same amount of demiglace - the pros; price and quality. The cons;
time. 1 hour roasting, 2 hours simmering, 1+ hour reducing. But you don't
have to stand there while it simmers.

Williams Sonoma sells jars of demi-glace for 29 dollars. Sounds like a
lot but worth every penny. A few tablespoons makes the best beef stew
you ever made. I'm a big fan of making my own stock and have done so
for years but I can't touch this product and don't think any home cook
can come close. We usually ask for a jar of the beef for a Christmas
present.

Ginny

Gil Faver wrote:
> well, the subject line says it all.
>
> anyone found any good veal or beef stocks on the market? How does their
> price compare with making your own? I am thinking of buying 50 pounds of
> veal bones, making 1/3 into white stock, and 2/3 into brown stock, then
> making some brown sauce and demiglace.
>
> aside from my time (I donate that for free), what is the cost comparison?
>
> thanks.

In article >,
"Gil Faver" > wrote:

> well, the subject line says it all.
>
> anyone found any good veal or beef stocks on the market? How does their
> price compare with making your own? I am thinking of buying 50 pounds of
> veal bones, making 1/3 into white stock, and 2/3 into brown stock, then
> making some brown sauce and demiglace.
>
> aside from my time (I donate that for free), what is the cost comparison?
>
> thanks.

I don't give a darn about cost comparisons, I've never really tried to
calculate it but I'm betting that home made stocks are cheaper.

My main issue is all the bloody SALT contained in commercial stocks and
canned broths! It's horrible!

The stuff I make now is so rich, it does not need salt. The celery I use
I think takes care of that for the most part.

And they are fast to make now that I use the pressure cooker to make
them all the time. 1 hour, max and the results would bounce like a
superball after refrigeration.

Standard stock is bones with or without meat (there is usually some meat
scraps), celery, onion, fresh ginger root and garlic, and other herbs as
desired depending on the plans for it. Learning to spatchcock makes for
some very meaty bones from regular chickens and cornish game hens.

I've got a small stash of frozen turkey stock at the moment and will be
making more turkey breast/pork mixed sausage this week. Wish I had more
freezer space!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Kent" > wrote:

> I think the answer is no! There aren't any good commercial veal or beef
> stocks on the market. There is decent veal concentrate made in France. It's
> expensive, and hard to find. Once you've found it and ordered it, it may or
> not be OK.
> I recently got back into making my own stock, and reducing it to a
> demiglace, after about a 15 year hiatus.
> At our local market, I can get the veal leftovers free. That's a big plus.
> However all of the beef parts are worth at least $1/lb in CA. If I want to
> make a beef/veal brown sauce for steak or other beef dishes I have to buy
> the beef bones and knuckles. I always throw in at least half veal bones for
> added richness. Beef by itself is pretty flat.
> Other than that, it's a good Saturday adventure to get into. Find a good
> recipe. I use the fond brun recipe from the Larousse Gastronomique and forge
> away.
> I always brown the bones with onion and carrot in the oven first and add
> water after.
> Writing this makes me want to run to the kitchen and do it again.
> Good Luck to you,
>
> Kent

Ooh I hear ya on the pre-roasted stock thing. :-)
I made some duck stock for Christmas dinner from some duck wings I
bought at the asian market.

For the first time, I roasted them first. It was utterly incredible.

With the table top oven to play with now, I'll be doing a lot more of
that. It makes it convenient.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Kent" > wrote:
>
>> I think the answer is no! There aren't any good commercial veal or beef
>> stocks on the market. There is decent veal concentrate made in France.
>> It's
>> expensive, and hard to find. Once you've found it and ordered it, it may
>> or
>> not be OK.
>> I recently got back into making my own stock, and reducing it to a
>> demiglace, after about a 15 year hiatus.
>> At our local market, I can get the veal leftovers free. That's a big
>> plus.
>> However all of the beef parts are worth at least $1/lb in CA. If I want
>> to
>> make a beef/veal brown sauce for steak or other beef dishes I have to buy
>> the beef bones and knuckles. I always throw in at least half veal bones
>> for
>> added richness. Beef by itself is pretty flat.
>> Other than that, it's a good Saturday adventure to get into. Find a good
>> recipe. I use the fond brun recipe from the Larousse Gastronomique and
>> forge
>> away.
>> I always brown the bones with onion and carrot in the oven first and add
>> water after.
>> Writing this makes me want to run to the kitchen and do it again.
>> Good Luck to you,
>>
>> Kent
>
> Ooh I hear ya on the pre-roasted stock thing. :-)
> I made some duck stock for Christmas dinner from some duck wings I
> bought at the asian market.
>
> For the first time, I roasted them first. It was utterly incredible.
>
> With the table top oven to play with now, I'll be doing a lot more of
> that. It makes it convenient.
> --
> Peace, Om
>
>
I just made duck stock from a leftover carcass and skin as well of
yesterday's New Years roast duck. I'm in the process of making duck confit
with leg-thighs from the local Chinese market. I'm down to the final skin
browning process..
Next it's charcroute garni, and cassoulet, two legs for each!!
Let's hear it for winter cooking.

Kent

"Dr. zara" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Gil Faver" > wrote in message
> ...
>> well, the subject line says it all.
>>
>> anyone found any good veal or beef stocks on the market? How does their
>> price compare with making your own? I am thinking of buying 50 pounds of
>> veal bones, making 1/3 into white stock, and 2/3 into brown stock, then
>> making some brown sauce and demiglace.
>>
>> aside from my time (I donate that for free), what is the cost comparison?
>>
>> thanks.
>
> The Demi Glace Gold is pretty good However for one quarter the price I
> can make the same amount of demiglace - the pros; price and quality. The
> cons; time. 1 hour roasting, 2 hours simmering, 1+ hour reducing. But you
> don't have to stand there while it simmers.
>
Beef or veal stock should be simmered much longer than 2 hours before
reducing, according to the Larousse Gast. and Escoffier, and most others. I
simmer at least 6-8 hours.
You get a lot more flavor/lb muscle-bone.

Kent

>

In article >,
"Kent" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> > In article >,
> > "Kent" > wrote:
> >
> >> I think the answer is no! There aren't any good commercial veal or beef
> >> stocks on the market. There is decent veal concentrate made in France.
> >> It's
> >> expensive, and hard to find. Once you've found it and ordered it, it may
> >> or
> >> not be OK.
> >> I recently got back into making my own stock, and reducing it to a
> >> demiglace, after about a 15 year hiatus.
> >> At our local market, I can get the veal leftovers free. That's a big
> >> plus.
> >> However all of the beef parts are worth at least $1/lb in CA. If I want
> >> to
> >> make a beef/veal brown sauce for steak or other beef dishes I have to buy
> >> the beef bones and knuckles. I always throw in at least half veal bones
> >> for
> >> added richness. Beef by itself is pretty flat.
> >> Other than that, it's a good Saturday adventure to get into. Find a good
> >> recipe. I use the fond brun recipe from the Larousse Gastronomique and
> >> forge
> >> away.
> >> I always brown the bones with onion and carrot in the oven first and add
> >> water after.
> >> Writing this makes me want to run to the kitchen and do it again.
> >> Good Luck to you,
> >>
> >> Kent
> >
> > Ooh I hear ya on the pre-roasted stock thing. :-)
> > I made some duck stock for Christmas dinner from some duck wings I
> > bought at the asian market.
> >
> > For the first time, I roasted them first. It was utterly incredible.
> >
> > With the table top oven to play with now, I'll be doing a lot more of
> > that. It makes it convenient.
> > --
> > Peace, Om
> >
> >
> I just made duck stock from a leftover carcass and skin as well of
> yesterday's New Years roast duck. I'm in the process of making duck confit
> with leg-thighs from the local Chinese market. I'm down to the final skin
> browning process..
> Next it's charcroute garni, and cassoulet, two legs for each!!
> Let's hear it for winter cooking.
>
> Kent
>

Especially if you have the time. :-)

Please post jpegs if you are able???
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >, kh6444
@comcast.net says...
> Beef or veal stock should be simmered much longer than 2 hours before
> reducing, according to the Larousse Gast. and Escoffier, and most others. I
> simmer at least 6-8 hours.
> You get a lot more flavor/lb muscle-bone.
>
>
>

Cost aside, making your own beef stock is always much better than
anything you can buy. Unfortunately, the required ingredients are very
hard to find these days. Ask at your local supermarket or butcher for
veal neck bones and see what kind of blank stare you get in response! I
wonder what happens to all that stuff - maybe it's ground up into
dogfood.

--
Peter Aitken

"Kent" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Dr. zara" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Gil Faver" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> well, the subject line says it all.
>>>
>>> anyone found any good veal or beef stocks on the market? How does their
>>> price compare with making your own? I am thinking of buying 50 pounds
>>> of veal bones, making 1/3 into white stock, and 2/3 into brown stock,
>>> then making some brown sauce and demiglace.
>>>
>>> aside from my time (I donate that for free), what is the cost
>>> comparison?
>>>
>>> thanks.
>>
>> The Demi Glace Gold is pretty good However for one quarter the price I
>> can make the same amount of demiglace - the pros; price and quality. The
>> cons; time. 1 hour roasting, 2 hours simmering, 1+ hour reducing. But you
>> don't have to stand there while it simmers.
>>
> Beef or veal stock should be simmered much longer than 2 hours before
> reducing, according to the Larousse Gast. and Escoffier, and most others.
> I simmer at least 6-8 hours.
> You get a lot more flavor/lb muscle-bone.

Sorry - my typo - I do simmer for at least four hours. After that I've
never seen a difference. I use beef ribs. A little more expensive than
mostly bone - but real good flavor and a short 4 hour simmer.

"Ginny H-W" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Williams Sonoma sells jars of demi-glace for 29 dollars. Sounds like a
> lot but worth every penny. A few tablespoons makes the best beef stew
> you ever made. I'm a big fan of making my own stock and have done so
> for years but I can't touch this product and don't think any home cook
> can come close. We usually ask for a jar of the beef for a Christmas
> present.
>
> Ginny

How many ounces in that jar?

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, kh6444
> @comcast.net says...
>> Beef or veal stock should be simmered much longer than 2 hours before
>> reducing, according to the Larousse Gast. and Escoffier, and most others.
>> I
>> simmer at least 6-8 hours.
>> You get a lot more flavor/lb muscle-bone.
>
> Cost aside, making your own beef stock is always much better than
> anything you can buy. Unfortunately, the required ingredients are very
> hard to find these days. Ask at your local supermarket or butcher for
> veal neck bones and see what kind of blank stare you get in response! I
> wonder what happens to all that stuff - maybe it's ground up into
> dogfood.
>
> Peter Aitken
>
>
This point was recently raised. At present 100% of the cow has some
wholesale value, so with rare exception you cannot get shins, joints, etc.
to make stock. I buy beef ribs when they are on sale for $.99/lb.
Fortunately I can have all the veal trimmings my local market has free. If
you can find a local market that buys and hangs whole sides of beef you may
be able to get trimmings free. That's rare these days.

Kent

On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 16:30:02 -0800, "Kent" > wrote:

>This point was recently raised. At present 100% of the cow has some
>wholesale value, so with rare exception you cannot get shins, joints, etc.
>to make stock. I buy beef ribs when they are on sale for $.99/lb.

If you have an Asian or other ethic market in your area, you can often
get those parts to make stock rather easily.

Christine

Peter A wrote:
> In article >, kh6444
> @comcast.net says...
> > Beef or veal stock should be simmered much longer than 2 hours before
> > reducing, according to the Larousse Gast. and Escoffier, and most others. I
> > simmer at least 6-8 hours.
> > You get a lot more flavor/lb muscle-bone.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Cost aside, making your own beef stock is always much better than
> anything you can buy. Unfortunately, the required ingredients are very
> hard to find these days. Ask at your local supermarket or butcher for
> veal neck bones and see what kind of blank stare you get in response! I
> wonder what happens to all that stuff - maybe it's ground up into
> dogfood.
>
> --
> Peter Aitken

That's what they add all the salt to and put into cans and call it beef
broth.

That, or it's what they used to feed to ruminants....

maxine in ri

10 ounces - lasts 6 months openeed, in fridge
Dr. zara wrote:
> "Ginny H-W" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> > Williams Sonoma sells jars of demi-glace for 29 dollars. Sounds like a
> > lot but worth every penny. A few tablespoons makes the best beef stew
> > you ever made. I'm a big fan of making my own stock and have done so
> > for years but I can't touch this product and don't think any home cook
> > can come close. We usually ask for a jar of the beef for a Christmas
> > present.
> >
> > Ginny
>
> How many ounces in that jar?

"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 16:30:02 -0800, "Kent" > wrote:
>
>>This point was recently raised. At present 100% of the cow has some
>>wholesale value, so with rare exception you cannot get shins, joints, etc.
>>to make stock. I buy beef ribs when they are on sale for $.99/lb.
>
> If you have an Asian or other ethic market in your area, you can often
> get those parts to make stock rather easily.
>
> Christine
>
Thanks, Christine,
That's especially true of the Hispanic Mkts in the SF Bay Area. I haven't
tried that but I'm going to.

Kent

Kent wrote:
> "Christine Dabney" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 16:30:02 -0800, "Kent" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This point was recently raised. At present 100% of the cow has some
>>>wholesale value, so with rare exception you cannot get shins, joints, etc.
>>>to make stock. I buy beef ribs when they are on sale for $.99/lb.
>>
>>If you have an Asian or other ethic market in your area, you can often
>>get those parts to make stock rather easily.
>>
>>Christine
>>
>
> Thanks, Christine,
> That's especially true of the Hispanic Mkts in the SF Bay Area. I haven't
> tried that but I'm going to.
>
> Kent
>
>
If your not already familiar with it do check out the Oakland Chinatown,
especially the area just east of broadway on 9th & 8th streets.
--
JL