I was talking to a friend this evening about tiramisu and she makes it
for her family with rum in it. She said her kids love it! (They
probably sleep well, too....) I was wondering what would happen if..
let's say...an 11 or 12 year old kid wanted to order this dessert in a
restaurant? Would they not be permitted to serve a boozy dessert to a
minor? Any restaurant owners in the house? Thanks for any
enlightenment on this. I've never seen this discussed anywhere before.
BTW... I grew up on Bacardi rum cake...and man, it was good.

Jocelyn De Contents wrote:
> I was talking to a friend this evening about tiramisu and she makes it
> for her family with rum in it. She said her kids love it! (They
> probably sleep well, too....) I was wondering what would happen if..
> let's say...an 11 or 12 year old kid wanted to order this dessert in a
> restaurant? Would they not be permitted to serve a boozy dessert to a
> minor? Any restaurant owners in the house? Thanks for any
> enlightenment on this. I've never seen this discussed anywhere before.
> BTW... I grew up on Bacardi rum cake...and man, it was good.
>
I can't believe anyone would seriously worry about this little amount of
alcohol in a dessert?
No one ever got drunk or high off a slice of tiramisu. Trust me.

"Jocelyn De Contents" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I was talking to a friend this evening about tiramisu and she makes it
> for her family with rum in it. She said her kids love it! (They
> probably sleep well, too....) I was wondering what would happen if..
> let's say...an 11 or 12 year old kid wanted to order this dessert in a
> restaurant? Would they not be permitted to serve a boozy dessert to a
> minor? Any restaurant owners in the house? Thanks for any
> enlightenment on this. I've never seen this discussed anywhere before.
> BTW... I grew up on Bacardi rum cake...and man, it was good.
>


Taking this to the extreme: My son likes to come to my band's performances.
He's 17. One club owner told me it was illegal for my son to be in his club,
even though he served food, which sort of makes it a restaurant. But, there
are other "bar-like" places where people bring their kids for dinner. So, I
got curious and called the police. Turns out that a minor can be in a bar
with parent. Not only that, but the parent can legally buy the kid alcohol.
However, bar owners can make their own rules which are stricter than the
law.

Obviously, the rules are probably different elsewhere.

Back to the "parents can buy the kid drinks": It's unlikely that 11 or 12
year old kids would be in a restaurant without parents, ordering a boozy
dessert. So, yes or no is probably up to the parents.

Goomba38 wrote:
> Jocelyn De Contents wrote:
> > I was talking to a friend this evening about tiramisu and she makes it
> > for her family with rum in it. She said her kids love it! (They
> > probably sleep well, too....) I was wondering what would happen if..
> > let's say...an 11 or 12 year old kid wanted to order this dessert in a
> > restaurant? Would they not be permitted to serve a boozy dessert to a
> > minor? Any restaurant owners in the house? Thanks for any
> > enlightenment on this. I've never seen this discussed anywhere before.
> > BTW... I grew up on Bacardi rum cake...and man, it was good.
> >
> I can't believe anyone would seriously worry about this little amount of
> alcohol in a dessert?
> No one ever got drunk or high off a slice of tiramisu. Trust me.

My question is whether restaurants can LEGALLY sell a dessert
containing booze in it to a minor. The actual amount of alcohol in a
slice of tiramisu is rather irrelevent. Booze is booze and you can't
sell booze to a kid. Or ~can~ you if it's in a dessert? That's my
question here.

Jocelyn De Contents wrote:

> My question is whether restaurants can LEGALLY sell a dessert
> containing booze in it to a minor. The actual amount of alcohol in a
> slice of tiramisu is rather irrelevent. Booze is booze and you can't
> sell booze to a kid. Or ~can~ you if it's in a dessert? That's my
> question here.
>

This would fall under the "just desserts" legal
doctrine, perhaps?

Laws aren't always crystal clear for each and every
possible permutation of events. This is probably one
that is so obscure and on-the-fringe that it would
ultimately have to go in front a judge to decide. In
order for that to happen that there would first have
to be some agency that would want to bring charges
against someone, somewhere. The reason why that
might not happen is rather obvious.

--
Reg

Jocelyn - Your concern reminds me of a trip my family took took to
Disneyland at Thanksgiving week in 2004. My youngest grand daughter
was a mere 8 months old at the time. We had spent most of the day
doing normal Disneyland activities, while wheeling her around in the
stroller.

Mid-afternoon we wandered over to California Adventure Park (adjacent
to Disneyland).
And while there we went into a little Napa Wine Country themed
restaurant, where we served up the most delightful tiramisu.

My daughter put one spoonful of the tiramisu into the baby's mouth. .
..The kid got an excited look on her face, grabbed her mom's blouse and
said, "Mom - yum." She kept repeating that very short phrase, until
more bites came her way.

I never in my life saw a baby of that age speak one word, let alone
two. . .And never did I ever see a baby eat so much tiramisu.

Seriously though, I would suspect the amount of rum in that delightful
desert would be minimal by most standards. I also suppose anyone
worried about any effects of the alcohol on children, could simmer the
rum slightly before putting it into the desert to dissipate the alcohol
from the magical elixer;-)

Myrl Jeffcoat
http://www.myrljeffcoat.com

Jocelyn De Contents wrote:
> Goomba38 wrote:
>> Jocelyn De Contents wrote:
>>> I was talking to a friend this evening about tiramisu and she makes it
>>> for her family with rum in it. She said her kids love it! (They
>>> probably sleep well, too....) I was wondering what would happen if..
>>> let's say...an 11 or 12 year old kid wanted to order this dessert in a
>>> restaurant? Would they not be permitted to serve a boozy dessert to a
>>> minor? Any restaurant owners in the house? Thanks for any
>>> enlightenment on this. I've never seen this discussed anywhere before.
>>> BTW... I grew up on Bacardi rum cake...and man, it was good.
>>>
>> I can't believe anyone would seriously worry about this little amount of
>> alcohol in a dessert?
>> No one ever got drunk or high off a slice of tiramisu. Trust me.
>
> My question is whether restaurants can LEGALLY sell a dessert
> containing booze in it to a minor. The actual amount of alcohol in a
> slice of tiramisu is rather irrelevent. Booze is booze and you can't
> sell booze to a kid. Or ~can~ you if it's in a dessert? That's my
> question here.
>


How do you feel about using lemon extract? It's 175 proof, you know.
That's stronger than *any* liquor that I know of. Even bread contains
alcohol; does that make it booze?

Do we need the government's permission to give a kid a sandwich?

Best regards,
Bob

"Jocelyn De Contents" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I was talking to a friend this evening about tiramisu and she makes it
> for her family with rum in it. She said her kids love it! (They
> probably sleep well, too....) I was wondering what would happen if..
> let's say...an 11 or 12 year old kid wanted to order this dessert in a
> restaurant? Would they not be permitted to serve a boozy dessert to a
> minor? Any restaurant owners in the house? Thanks for any
> enlightenment on this. I've never seen this discussed anywhere before.
> BTW... I grew up on Bacardi rum cake...and man, it was good.

If the liquor is cooked, then they could have it because most of the alcohol
is burned off. Otherwise, they can't legally serve it to a minor.

Julie Bove wrote:

> If the liquor is cooked, then they could have it because most of the alcohol
> is burned off. Otherwise, they can't legally serve it to a minor.
>
>
and it is done daily without anyone batting an eye

Jocelyn De Contents wrote:
> I was talking to a friend this evening about tiramisu and she makes it
> for her family with rum in it. She said her kids love it! (They
> probably sleep well, too....) I was wondering what would happen if..
> let's say...an 11 or 12 year old kid wanted to order this dessert in a
> restaurant? Would they not be permitted to serve a boozy dessert to a
> minor? Any restaurant owners in the house? Thanks for any
> enlightenment on this. I've never seen this discussed anywhere before.
> BTW... I grew up on Bacardi rum cake...and man, it was good.
Depends on the recipe- there are many variations on tiramisu- as wrong
as it is...I've made it with espresso sans alcohol, so unless you have
their recipe, I would'nt worry about it. A little nip won't hurt
anyone, especially in something like that

wrote:
> Jocelyn - Your concern reminds me of a trip my family took took to
> Disneyland at Thanksgiving week in 2004. My youngest grand daughter
> was a mere 8 months old at the time. We had spent most of the day
> doing normal Disneyland activities, while wheeling her around in the
> stroller.
>
> Mid-afternoon we wandered over to California Adventure Park (adjacent
> to Disneyland).
> And while there we went into a little Napa Wine Country themed
> restaurant, where we served up the most delightful tiramisu.
>
> My daughter put one spoonful of the tiramisu into the baby's mouth. .
> .The kid got an excited look on her face, grabbed her mom's blouse and
> said, "Mom - yum." She kept repeating that very short phrase, until
> more bites came her way.
>
> I never in my life saw a baby of that age speak one word, let alone
> two. . .And never did I ever see a baby eat so much tiramisu.
Maybe she meant"Mmmmm, chocolate, or cake, or marscapone/ pastry cream/
sabayon/take me to Italy???
>
> Seriously though, I would suspect the amount of rum in that delightful
> desert would be minimal by most standards. I also suppose anyone
> worried about any effects of the alcohol on children, could simmer the
> rum slightly before putting it into the desert to dissipate the alcohol
> from the magical elixer;-)
>
> Myrl Jeffcoat
> http://www.myrljeffcoat.com

Julie Bove wrote:

> If the liquor is cooked, then they could have it because most of the alcohol
> is burned off. Otherwise, they can't legally serve it to a minor.

How much cooking, just how much is "most", and what
do you base that on?

In fact, it's the final concentration of alcohol
that would be significant and not how it ended up
that way. Whether it's been cooked or not wouldn't
enter into it.

If I add a teaspoon of white wine to 5 gallons of
strawberry mousse and feed some to a child am I in
violation? How about a tablespoon? A cup?

In the end, without some citation of either statutory
or case law you can't make that assertion.

--
Reg

They can and they do serve it to kids. It has to be over a certain percent
before the law would get involved. It's like the small amount that is cough
syrup or liquor cakes like Downey's cakes. Have you ever heard of anyone
being carded to buy over the counter cough syrup or Downey's Cakes? Well I
used to own a gift shop and we could sell Downey's cakes and Tipsy Cakes to
anyone of any age and we didn't have to have a liquor license to sell them
either. And the drug store on the next block sells cough syrup and they
never card anyone before they sell it.



"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
news:9A%oh.2219$3L1.1171@trndny03...
>
> "Jocelyn De Contents" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >I was talking to a friend this evening about tiramisu and she makes it
> > for her family with rum in it. She said her kids love it! (They
> > probably sleep well, too....) I was wondering what would happen if..
> > let's say...an 11 or 12 year old kid wanted to order this dessert in a
> > restaurant? Would they not be permitted to serve a boozy dessert to a
> > minor? Any restaurant owners in the house? Thanks for any
> > enlightenment on this. I've never seen this discussed anywhere before.
> > BTW... I grew up on Bacardi rum cake...and man, it was good.
>
> If the liquor is cooked, then they could have it because most of the
alcohol
> is burned off. Otherwise, they can't legally serve it to a minor.
>
>

merryb wrote:

> Depends on the recipe- there are many variations on tiramisu- as wrong
> as it is...I've made it with espresso sans alcohol, so unless you have
> their recipe, I would'nt worry about it. A little nip won't hurt
> anyone, especially in something like that

Unless they're on Antabuse. ;o)

Gabby

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

>
> Taking this to the extreme: My son likes to come to my band's performances.
> He's 17. One club owner told me it was illegal for my son to be in his club,
> even though he served food, which sort of makes it a restaurant. But, there
> are other "bar-like" places where people bring their kids for dinner. So, I
> got curious and called the police. Turns out that a minor can be in a bar
> with parent. Not only that, but the parent can legally buy the kid alcohol.


Where do you live? I was under the impression you were in the US, but
it's DEFINITELY not legal for anyone to buy alcohol for a minor in a
bar in the US. Ask the cops - or try it sometime.

Reg wrote:
> Jocelyn De Contents wrote:
>
>> My question is whether restaurants can LEGALLY sell a dessert
>> containing booze in it to a minor. The actual amount of alcohol in a
>> slice of tiramisu is rather irrelevent. Booze is booze and you can't
>> sell booze to a kid. Or ~can~ you if it's in a dessert? That's my
>> question here.
>>
>
> This would fall under the "just desserts" legal
> doctrine, perhaps?
>
> Laws aren't always crystal clear for each and every
> possible permutation of events. This is probably one
> that is so obscure and on-the-fringe that it would
> ultimately have to go in front a judge to decide. In
> order for that to happen that there would first have
> to be some agency that would want to bring charges
> against someone, somewhere. The reason why that
> might not happen is rather obvious.
>

It isn't only laws you have to worry about today. There are the 95% of
lawyers who are looking for any angle to transfer wealth to themselves.
It isn't hard to imagine the clever twists they could use.

"Jude" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
>>
>> Taking this to the extreme: My son likes to come to my band's
>> performances.
>> He's 17. One club owner told me it was illegal for my son to be in his
>> club,
>> even though he served food, which sort of makes it a restaurant. But,
>> there
>> are other "bar-like" places where people bring their kids for dinner. So,
>> I
>> got curious and called the police. Turns out that a minor can be in a bar
>> with parent. Not only that, but the parent can legally buy the kid
>> alcohol.
>
>
> Where do you live? I was under the impression you were in the US, but
> it's DEFINITELY not legal for anyone to buy alcohol for a minor in a
> bar in the US. Ask the cops - or try it sometime.
>


Rochester NY. And, I ***did*** ask the cops. I called the police station and
asked to speak to a supervisor. He thought the law was weird, too, but
that's what it is. I'm not saying I'd buy my kid booze - I'm just pointing
out the law in one particular place. The legal drinking age in all of NY is
21.

"New York
- No one under the age of 21 is allowed to buy or posses alcohol. But you
can drink alcohol if you are a student in a curriculum licensed or
registered by the state education department and is required to taste or
imbibe alcoholic beverages in courses which are part of the required
curriculum. Also you can consume alcohol if it is give to you by your
guardian or parent. I didn't find the BAC limit for anyone under 21 (if
there is one), but I did find that the BAC (at least for someone 21 years
old or older) is .10 (Effective until November 1, 2003.) After November 1,
2003 the new law is .08."

Unfortunately, the most web references take the user to a NY State Assembly
page that's broken.

"Reg" > wrote in message
om...
> Jocelyn De Contents wrote:
>
>> My question is whether restaurants can LEGALLY sell a dessert
>> containing booze in it to a minor. The actual amount of alcohol in a
>> slice of tiramisu is rather irrelevent. Booze is booze and you can't
>> sell booze to a kid. Or ~can~ you if it's in a dessert? That's my
>> question here.
>>
>
> This would fall under the "just desserts" legal
> doctrine, perhaps?
>
> Laws aren't always crystal clear for each and every
> possible permutation of events. This is probably one
> that is so obscure and on-the-fringe that it would
> ultimately have to go in front a judge to decide. In
> order for that to happen that there would first have
> to be some agency that would want to bring charges
> against someone, somewhere. The reason why that
> might not happen is rather obvious.


Absolutely. Usually, it begins with a major organization with a 2000+ year
history of meddling in other peoples' business, and turns out drones who
think they know what's good for everyone else. The most glaring example
would be how the fake saints in congress wasted so much time and money
investigating a blowjob. On a smaller scale, there are train wrecks like
this:

" On January 12, 1991, Denise Perrigo called a local community volunteer
center to ask a question about breast-feeding, checking to see if it was
unusual for a mother to become aroused while breast-feeding her child.
(Perigo's daughter, Cherilyn, was three years old at the time.) The local
community volunteer service referred her to a rape crisis center, where the
volunteer she talked to assumed that Perrigo was sexually abusing her
daughter. The center phoned the police, who raided Perrigo's house, arrested
and jailed her, and gave her daughter to social workers from the Onondaga
County Department of Social Services in Syracuse, New York.
Perrigo was interrogated for five hours by the police. She later said that
one of the policemen accused her of "having my daughter perform oral sex on
me." Perrigo was formally accused of sexual abuse, including "acts of sexual
conduct including mouth-to-breast contact." The term breast-feeding was
never used.

Perrigo's case went before a local judge the following Monday morning, and
the judge threw all charges against her out of court.

But rather than give Cherilyn back to her mother, the Department of Social
Services immediately filed another set of charges. The daughter was placed
in a foster home. The social workers effectively claimed that Perrigo was a
pervert because she was still breast-feeding her three-year-old daughter.
Yet, as Dr. Ruth Lawrence, a University of Rochester pediatrician and one of
the nation's foremost authorities on breast-feeding, notes, the
international average length of nursing is 4.2 years. (One policeman
reportedly lectured Perrigo on the night of her arrest that it was
"physically impossible to nurse after eighteen months," so she must be
nursing for her own gratification.)

The case against Perrigo was heard by a local family court judge three
months later--and once again all the charges were thrown out of court.

Yet Cherilyn was kept in foster care, and social workers permitted Perrigo
to see her daughter only two hours once every two weeks.

In the following months, Cherilyn was interrogated by social workers and
psychologists more than thirty times. Five months later, family court judge
Edward McLaughlin again dismissed all charges."

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote

> " On January 12, 1991, Denise Perrigo called a local community volunteer
> center to ask a question about breast-feeding, checking to see if it was
> unusual for a mother to become aroused while breast-feeding her child.
> (Perigo's daughter, Cherilyn, was three years old at the time.)

Ugh. Anyway, I have to wonder about someone who'd make that
phone call. Then the second phone call ? to a rape crisis center?
People there are looking for sexual abuse, that's what they do.

At any rate, too bad that happened to her, but if she was that worried
perhaps she should have kept her toddler on whatever it is most of
them eat. Baby food or whatever.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote
>
>> " On January 12, 1991, Denise Perrigo called a local community volunteer
>> center to ask a question about breast-feeding, checking to see if it was
>> unusual for a mother to become aroused while breast-feeding her child.
>> (Perigo's daughter, Cherilyn, was three years old at the time.)
>
> Ugh. Anyway, I have to wonder about someone who'd make that
> phone call. Then the second phone call ? to a rape crisis center?
> People there are looking for sexual abuse, that's what they do.
>
> At any rate, too bad that happened to her, but if she was that worried
> perhaps she should have kept her toddler on whatever it is most of
> them eat. Baby food or whatever.
>
> nancy
>

The point is that there are fake saints everywhere. You're turning the blame
back on the mother.

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote

> "Nancy Young" > wrote

>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote
>>
>>> " On January 12, 1991, Denise Perrigo called a local community volunteer
>>> center to ask a question about breast-feeding, checking to see if it was
>>> unusual for a mother to become aroused while breast-feeding her child.
>>> (Perigo's daughter, Cherilyn, was three years old at the time.)
>>
>> Ugh. Anyway, I have to wonder about someone who'd make that
>> phone call. Then the second phone call ? to a rape crisis center?
>> People there are looking for sexual abuse, that's what they do.
>>
>> At any rate, too bad that happened to her, but if she was that worried
>> perhaps she should have kept her toddler on whatever it is most of
>> them eat. Baby food or whatever.

> The point is that there are fake saints everywhere. You're turning the
> blame back on the mother.

Yup. For putting her child in that situation for making the stupid
phone call, knowing the hysteria level of all things child abuse anymore.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote
>
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote
>
>>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote
>>>
>>>> " On January 12, 1991, Denise Perrigo called a local community
>>>> volunteer center to ask a question about breast-feeding, checking to
>>>> see if it was unusual for a mother to become aroused while
>>>> breast-feeding her child. (Perigo's daughter, Cherilyn, was three years
>>>> old at the time.)
>>>
>>> Ugh. Anyway, I have to wonder about someone who'd make that
>>> phone call. Then the second phone call ? to a rape crisis center?
>>> People there are looking for sexual abuse, that's what they do.
>>>
>>> At any rate, too bad that happened to her, but if she was that worried
>>> perhaps she should have kept her toddler on whatever it is most of
>>> them eat. Baby food or whatever.
>
>> The point is that there are fake saints everywhere. You're turning the
>> blame back on the mother.
>
> Yup. For putting her child in that situation for making the stupid
> phone call, knowing the hysteria level of all things child abuse anymore.
>
> nancy


Well, I suppose she should've known that Kristian agents have infiltrated
all sorts of places, but maybe you have to be older and wiser before you
realize the extent of the evil.

Steve Wertz wrote:
> On 10 Jan 2007 05:10:12 -0800, Jude wrote:
>
> > JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Taking this to the extreme: My son likes to come to my band's performances.
> >> He's 17. One club owner told me it was illegal for my son to be in his club,
> >> even though he served food, which sort of makes it a restaurant. But, there
> >> are other "bar-like" places where people bring their kids for dinner. So, I
> >> got curious and called the police. Turns out that a minor can be in a bar
> >> with parent. Not only that, but the parent can legally buy the kid alcohol.
> >
> > Where do you live? I was under the impression you were in the US, but
> > it's DEFINITELY not legal for anyone to buy alcohol for a minor in a
> > bar in the US. Ask the cops - or try it sometime.
>
> Depends on the state. Those same laws he mentioned are also how
> the laws read in Texas, I believe.
>
> -sw

so, the guy outside the 7-11 who offers to buy the kids beer for a few
bucks profit is a criminal, but if it's the kid's father, its' okay?

what about all these instances of parents geting arrested for serving
their underage children alcohol in their own homes? how's that illegal?
they can only buy them drinks in a bar, not at home?!?!?

so rpoud to be an american.

anyways, i dare you to try it. take your 12 year old to a bar and start
doing shots with him. try to convince the judges that it's legal and
just to ignore you, since you're not driving home, cab dispatcher at
the ready.

Goomba38 wrote:


> >
> I can't believe anyone would seriously worry about this little amount of
> alcohol in a dessert?
> No one ever got drunk or high off a slice of tiramisu. Trust me.


It depends on the dessert. My mother used to serve us Creme de
Menthe parfaits with artificial Creme de Menthe. My aunt used to
make them with real Creme de Menthe, and she really poured it
on. The last time I was in Paris we were in a restaurant where
my wife's dessert was described as "Savarin cake imbibed in
rum". It was a light, fluffy cake about 4" across and 2" high
sitting in a puddle of at least 3 oz. of white rum, and no
telling how much had soaked into the cake. This was real white
rum, not a sweet, rum flavoured sauce like I had in a restaurant
recently. I think an adult could have caught a buzz off that
dessert.

"Jude" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Steve Wertz wrote:
>> On 10 Jan 2007 05:10:12 -0800, Jude wrote:
>>
>> > JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Taking this to the extreme: My son likes to come to my band's
>> >> performances.
>> >> He's 17. One club owner told me it was illegal for my son to be in his
>> >> club,
>> >> even though he served food, which sort of makes it a restaurant. But,
>> >> there
>> >> are other "bar-like" places where people bring their kids for dinner.
>> >> So, I
>> >> got curious and called the police. Turns out that a minor can be in a
>> >> bar
>> >> with parent. Not only that, but the parent can legally buy the kid
>> >> alcohol.
>> >
>> > Where do you live? I was under the impression you were in the US, but
>> > it's DEFINITELY not legal for anyone to buy alcohol for a minor in a
>> > bar in the US. Ask the cops - or try it sometime.
>>
>> Depends on the state. Those same laws he mentioned are also how
>> the laws read in Texas, I believe.
>>
>> -sw
>
> so, the guy outside the 7-11 who offers to buy the kids beer for a few
> bucks profit is a criminal, but if it's the kid's father, its' okay?
>
> what about all these instances of parents geting arrested for serving
> their underage children alcohol in their own homes? how's that illegal?
> they can only buy them drinks in a bar, not at home?!?!?
>
> so rpoud to be an american.
>
> anyways, i dare you to try it. take your 12 year old to a bar and start
> doing shots with him. try to convince the judges that it's legal and
> just to ignore you, since you're not driving home, cab dispatcher at
> the ready.
>

Jude, I defer to your interpretation of the law, and based on the way you
write, I also defer to your wisdom, no doubt gleaned from an education that
went way beyond mine. So, you interpret the law, and explain why some parts
of it are tightly written, while other parts are loose. Here's a good source
for your studies:

http://www.mcacp.org/issue41.htm

Come back with your lucid explanation(s).

Jocelyn De Contents wrote:
> Goomba38 wrote:
> > Jocelyn De Contents wrote:
> > > I was talking to a friend this evening about tiramisu and she makes it
> > > for her family with rum in it. She said her kids love it! (They
> > > probably sleep well, too....) I was wondering what would happen if..
> > > let's say...an 11 or 12 year old kid wanted to order this dessert in a
> > > restaurant? Would they not be permitted to serve a boozy dessert to a
> > > minor? Any restaurant owners in the house? Thanks for any
> > > enlightenment on this. I've never seen this discussed anywhere before.
> > > BTW... I grew up on Bacardi rum cake...and man, it was good.
> > >
> > I can't believe anyone would seriously worry about this little amount of
> > alcohol in a dessert?
> > No one ever got drunk or high off a slice of tiramisu. Trust me.
>
> My question is whether restaurants can LEGALLY sell a dessert
> containing booze in it to a minor. The actual amount of alcohol in a
> slice of tiramisu is rather irrelevent. Booze is booze and you can't
> sell booze to a kid. Or ~can~ you if it's in a dessert? That's my
> question here.

It's a morals issue, not one of legality... you gonna arrest the priest
for placing a drop of wine on a baby's lips.

If your alcohol concern is a matter of absolutes (no pun intended) then
ordinary yeast bread contains alcohol... in fact many ordinary everyday
foods contain some alcohol, fruits, vegetables, even cereal. The
answer to your question however is quite simple, if the State doesn't
require a liqour license to sell the product than it is perfectly legal
for the establishment to sell it to anyone with the dollars... now
that's legally... morality is of course a whole nother issue. The
mere fact that you call it "booze" tells me your morals are what are in
question, and I definitely know that answer... the same as your IQ,
low!

Restaurants of the caliber that serve liquor laced viands don't serve
children unless accompanied by an adult, therefore all liability is on
the accompanying adult, not the restaurant.

In article <9A%oh.2219$3L1.1171@trndny03>,
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> "Jocelyn De Contents" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >I was talking to a friend this evening about tiramisu and she makes it
> > for her family with rum in it. She said her kids love it! (They
> > probably sleep well, too....) I was wondering what would happen if..
> > let's say...an 11 or 12 year old kid wanted to order this dessert in a
> > restaurant? Would they not be permitted to serve a boozy dessert to a
> > minor? Any restaurant owners in the house? Thanks for any
> > enlightenment on this. I've never seen this discussed anywhere before.
> > BTW... I grew up on Bacardi rum cake...and man, it was good.
>
> If the liquor is cooked, then they could have it because most of the alcohol
> is burned off. Otherwise, they can't legally serve it to a minor.

See the rfc FAQ. It's an urban legend that the alcohol burns off.

In article >,
"Deb" > wrote:

> They can and they do serve it to kids. It has to be over a certain percent
> before the law would get involved. It's like the small amount that is cough
> syrup or liquor cakes like Downey's cakes. Have you ever heard of anyone
> being carded to buy over the counter cough syrup or Downey's Cakes? Well I
> used to own a gift shop and we could sell Downey's cakes and Tipsy Cakes to
> anyone of any age and we didn't have to have a liquor license to sell them
> either. And the drug store on the next block sells cough syrup and they
> never card anyone before they sell it.


Around here, certain types of medicine require carding, and you can only
buy one. It's not the alcohol, it's something that is used to make meth.

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Deb" > wrote:
>
>> They can and they do serve it to kids. It has to be over a certain
>> percent
>> before the law would get involved. It's like the small amount that is
>> cough
>> syrup or liquor cakes like Downey's cakes. Have you ever heard of anyone
>> being carded to buy over the counter cough syrup or Downey's Cakes? Well
>> I
>> used to own a gift shop and we could sell Downey's cakes and Tipsy Cakes
>> to
>> anyone of any age and we didn't have to have a liquor license to sell
>> them
>> either. And the drug store on the next block sells cough syrup and they
>> never card anyone before they sell it.
>
>
> Around here, certain types of medicine require carding, and you can only
> buy one. It's not the alcohol, it's something that is used to make meth.

Yeah...certain cold medicines.

In article . com>,
"Jude" > wrote:

> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
> >
> > Taking this to the extreme: My son likes to come to my band's performances.
> > He's 17. One club owner told me it was illegal for my son to be in his club,
> > even though he served food, which sort of makes it a restaurant. But, there
> > are other "bar-like" places where people bring their kids for dinner. So, I
> > got curious and called the police. Turns out that a minor can be in a bar
> > with parent. Not only that, but the parent can legally buy the kid alcohol.
>
>
> Where do you live? I was under the impression you were in the US, but
> it's DEFINITELY not legal for anyone to buy alcohol for a minor in a
> bar in the US. Ask the cops - or try it sometime.

In the US, there is the concept of State's Rights. Each state
determines their own laws. I don't know the laws for all 50 states. I
suspect that parents who order a drink and then share it with their kid
will not get in trouble, in some places.

Gabby wrote:
> merryb wrote:
>
>> Depends on the recipe- there are many variations on tiramisu- as wrong
>> as it is...I've made it with espresso sans alcohol, so unless you have
>> their recipe, I would'nt worry about it. A little nip won't hurt
>> anyone, especially in something like that
>
> Unless they're on Antabuse. ;o)
>
> Gabby
>
lol..true..but not many kids are on that, eh?

In article . com>,
"Jude" > wrote:


> so, the guy outside the 7-11 who offers to buy the kids beer for a few
> bucks profit is a criminal, but if it's the kid's father, its' okay?


That is in fact how it works. Parents are responsible for their
children. Other people outside of the 7-11 are not allowed to make
decisions that belong to the parents.

My daughter had a little bit of a tough time last summer. No adults
were allowed in the group shower. No mixed gender in the group shower.
My daughter was a dean of the church camp. The church camp for youth
was over at noon on Saturday. At that point, the next camp took over.
There were many of the same people, but it was a Family Camp, so the
parents had to take responsibility for their children. At 12:01, the
leaders of the youth camp all went to take a shower together. Mixed
gender.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

> " On January 12, 1991, Denise Perrigo called a local community volunteer
> center to ask a question about breast-feeding, checking to see if it was
> unusual for a mother to become aroused while breast-feeding her child.
> (Perigo's daughter, Cherilyn, was three years old at the time.)


Why would a mother call a community volunteer center to ask such a
stupid question? If she had any brains, to understand anatomy, she might
have figured out the answer. If she had a doctor, or le leche league she
could call *they* could have helped her.

Are we going to get into legal battles over communion wine next? Oy.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

> The point is that there are fake saints everywhere. You're turning the blame
> back on the mother.
>
And that mother was an idiot. No one else initated that stupid call but
her.

Goomba38 wrote:
> Gabby wrote:
> > merryb wrote:
> >
> >> Depends on the recipe- there are many variations on tiramisu- as wrong
> >> as it is...I've made it with espresso sans alcohol, so unless you have
> >> their recipe, I would'nt worry about it. A little nip won't hurt
> >> anyone, especially in something like that
> >
> > Unless they're on Antabuse. ;o)
> >
> > Gabby
> >
> lol..true..but not many kids are on that, eh?

But she said "anyone". ;o)

Gabby

"Goomba38" > wrote in message
. ..
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
>> The point is that there are fake saints everywhere. You're turning the
>> blame back on the mother.
> And that mother was an idiot. No one else initated that stupid call but
> her.


Since it's such a common thing with nursing mothers, it was a perfectly
reasonable question. Not her fault the help line contained a trap. By your
logic, an addict walking into a rehab center and asking for help should be
arrested because obviously, he/she may have illegal drugs.

Goomba38 wrote:

> Are we going to get into legal battles over communion wine next? Oy.

I don't know about the laws in the various US states but in Canada
liquor laws specifically exclude alcohol consumed for religious
purposes.

Gabby

"Goomba38" > wrote in message
. ..
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
>> " On January 12, 1991, Denise Perrigo called a local community volunteer
>> center to ask a question about breast-feeding, checking to see if it was
>> unusual for a mother to become aroused while breast-feeding her child.
>> (Perigo's daughter, Cherilyn, was three years old at the time.)
>
>
> Why would a mother call a community volunteer center to ask such a stupid
> question? If she had any brains, to understand anatomy, she might have
> figured out the answer. If she had a doctor, or le leche league she could
> call *they* could have helped her.
>
> Are we going to get into legal battles over communion wine next? Oy.


1) Maybe she hadn't heard of La Leche League. Our doctor didn't mention it
to us. We just knew.

2) Maybe she had no working relationship with a doctor. Not everyone is that
lucky. Some women get their ob-gyn care through clinics where there may be
little or no continuity from one visit to the next, other than a clipboard
with their medical records.

3) Maybe she didn't expect the volunteer center to be a trap. Some are run
by fake saints: Church puppets, with absolutely no interest in science or
medicine.

merryb wrote:
> Maybe she meant"Mmmmm, chocolate, or cake, or marscapone/ pastry cream/
> sabayon/take me to Italy???


Without a doubt, that was what she was saying;-)

Jocelyn De Contents wrote:

>
> My question is whether restaurants can LEGALLY sell a dessert
> containing booze in it to a minor. The actual amount of alcohol in a
> slice of tiramisu is rather irrelevent. Booze is booze and you can't
> sell booze to a kid. Or ~can~ you if it's in a dessert? That's my
> question here.
>

In a dessert, the booze is a minor ingredient not a beverage.
If the rum or liqueur was served in a glass to be poured onto the
dessert, the minor would be out of luck.

Are you questioning whether a restaurant could serve a minor coq au vin
or boeuf bourguignon? In these, too, the alcohol is a minor ingredient
rather than a "straight up" drink.

gloria p