I found a recipe to make mozzerella, and it calls for whole milk- is
this just regular pasturized milk, or does it need to be raw? I don't
have the recipe in front of me, but I thought maybe someone might know.
Thought this would be a fun thing to try...

In article .com>,
says...
> I found a recipe to make mozzerella, and it calls for whole milk- is
> this just regular pasturized milk, or does it need to be raw? I don't
> have the recipe in front of me, but I thought maybe someone might know.
> Thought this would be a fun thing to try...
>
>
Whatever fresh whole milk you have on hand. It can be made with raw or
pasturized milk. (If you can get raw milk legally where you are, lucky
you!) The flavor of the cheese will be different depending on which
type you use. "Fresh" is key, as is "whole", imo.

Bob

yetanotherBob wrote:
> In article .com>,
> says...
> > I found a recipe to make mozzerella, and it calls for whole milk- is
> > this just regular pasturized milk, or does it need to be raw? I don't
> > have the recipe in front of me, but I thought maybe someone might know.
> > Thought this would be a fun thing to try...
> >
> >
> Whatever fresh whole milk you have on hand. It can be made with raw or
> pasturized milk. (If you can get raw milk legally where you are, lucky
> you!) The flavor of the cheese will be different depending on which
> type you use. "Fresh" is key, as is "whole", imo.
>
> Bob


How times have changed. Before I turned 20, I used to drive 20 miles
to a "semi-rural" area to get raw milk from a vending machine outside
of fast-food joint. It came in one-quart containers and I think cost
about 25 cents per.

I don't think it's legal to sell it anymore, and driving 20 miles takes
me to a 5 mile strip of chain stores surrounded by a 5 five mile square
of luxury condos.

Yes, I've crossed over from Hippiedom to Oldfarthood.

Thanks for reading.

merryb wrote:
> I found a recipe to make mozzerella, and it calls for whole milk- is
> this just regular pasturized milk, or does it need to be raw? I don't
> have the recipe in front of me, but I thought maybe someone might know.
> Thought this would be a fun thing to try...


Not too long ago I was in a store that sold kits for making mozzarella
or ricotta cheese. (The store specialized in everything needed to make
beer and wine, but as I was examining everything, I took especial
interest in the cheese kit.) I remember the package instructions well.
Yes, to pasteurization. No, to ultra pasteurization. It said in big
letters: PASTEURIZED WHOLE MILK. I'm guessing your recipe calls for
the same.


--Lia

yetanotherBob wrote:
> In article .com>,
> says...
> > I found a recipe to make mozzerella, and it calls for whole milk- is
> > this just regular pasturized milk, or does it need to be raw? I don't
> > have the recipe in front of me, but I thought maybe someone might know.
> > Thought this would be a fun thing to try...
> >
> >
> Whatever fresh whole milk you have on hand. It can be made with raw or
> pasturized milk. (If you can get raw milk legally where you are, lucky
> you!) The flavor of the cheese will be different depending on which
> type you use. "Fresh" is key, as is "whole", imo.
>
> Bob
Thank you for your reply. I'd really like to try it. Have you any
experience in cheesemaking? You seem to have a lot of experience in the
food world!

yetanotherBob wrote:
> In article .com>,
> says...
> > I found a recipe to make mozzerella, and it calls for whole milk- is
> > this just regular pasturized milk, or does it need to be raw? I don't
> > have the recipe in front of me, but I thought maybe someone might know.
> > Thought this would be a fun thing to try...
> >
> >
> Whatever fresh whole milk you have on hand. It can be made with raw or
> pasturized milk. (If you can get raw milk legally where you are, lucky
> you!) The flavor of the cheese will be different depending on which
> type you use. "Fresh" is key, as is "whole", imo.
>
> Bob
Thanks for your reply-I'm anxious to try this. Have you ever done any
cheesemaking before? You seem to be experienced in the food world, and
I would appreciate any tips!

Its the law says you must P' milk .

for most of recorded history , people DID NOT P' milk .

Many acids will pull the pH down to about 4 to start

the cheese . Squeeze out moisture , M' cause decay

in many foods .

I sometimes open air dry Mont Jack

and Mozz' , to bring out the flavor .

It turns saltier when you dry it more .

------------------------------------------

The Vitamin D added to milk is causing hyperactive children .

Vit D is toxic . I stopped consuming Vit D milk 30 years ago .

I now sub half&half .

In article . com>,
says...
>
> yetanotherBob wrote:
> > In article .com>,
> > says...
> > > I found a recipe to make mozzerella, and it calls for whole milk- is
> > > this just regular pasturized milk, or does it need to be raw? I don't
> > > have the recipe in front of me, but I thought maybe someone might know.
> > > Thought this would be a fun thing to try...
> > >
> > >
> > Whatever fresh whole milk you have on hand. It can be made with raw or
> > pasturized milk. (If you can get raw milk legally where you are, lucky
> > you!) The flavor of the cheese will be different depending on which
> > type you use. "Fresh" is key, as is "whole", imo.
> >
> > Bob
> Thanks for your reply-I'm anxious to try this. Have you ever done any
> cheesemaking before? You seem to be experienced in the food world, and
> I would appreciate any tips!
>
>
As a person who tries to eat at least three meals a day, and who hasn't
purposely missed very many meals at all over many years, I would
describe myself as *quite* experienced in the food world - albeit as a
consumer rather than a producer. I wield a *mean* fork, and am quite
handy with the knife and spoon as well, I don't mind saying.

I did play around with making cheese years ago, when I could get fresh
raw goat's milk from my brother. Based on that experience, the only
advice I can offer is: "Use the freshest, highest quality ingredient you
can get your hands on" (including "minor" additives like salt and
rennet), and "Keep trying", when things don't come out quite the way you
expected. Unless something goes badly wrong, even the "flops" can be
good (or at least "interesting").

Beyond that, follow your recipes *exactly* to start with, then build on
your experience. Pretty much common sense, right?

These days, the most I do is make fresh soft cheeses from yogurt, kefir
and sour cream. The cheese coolers at Costco are just too varied,
tempting and relatively cheap to make any other cheese-making
experiments worth the time or effort. That, plus I recently was
diagnosed as being "pretty damn lazy".

I haven't checked, but I would guess that there are plenty of web
resources for cheesemakers, as well as many books on Amazon and similar
web sources. One book I like is called "Wild Fermentation" by S. Katz.
I got it for the info it has on fermenting veggies, but it also has an
interesting section on cheesemaking, along with others on breadmaking,
brewing beer and wine, etc.


Good luck,
Bob

merryb wrote:
> I found a recipe to make mozzerella, and it calls for whole milk- is
> this just regular pasturized milk, or does it need to be raw? I don't
> have the recipe in front of me, but I thought maybe someone might know.
> Thought this would be a fun thing to try...

Merryb,

This is a great cheese to try as one of your first attempts at
cheesemaking. It can be eaten as soon as the cheese has cooled after
stretching. There are a few recipes floating out there for 1 hour, half
hour type mozzarella made in the microwave and stove. I can post a one
hour recipe I have made successfully many times if you like? It
basically consists of warming the milk, acidifying the warmed milk with
citric acid, draining the curd then heating in the microwave until
it's stretchable. That's over simplified, but it shows the basic
steps.

You do need to be careful of using whole milk for one reason. If it is
ultra-pasteurized you won't get the proper curd set you need. I have
found VERY few store bought milks actually label it "ultra". There is
no law saying it has to be labeled as ultra, only that it's been
pasteurized. Calcium chloride can help reset the milk proteins, but
hasn't always worked in my experience. The better thing to do is use
skim or fat free milk then add 1 pint of heavy cream to it. There is
much more consistency doing it this way because the cream still has the
proper proteins. Ultra pasteurization destroys the structure and leads
to a cottage cheese type curd which won't properly bind.

Raw milk is the holy grail of home cheesemakers these days. I can't
get it anywhere, but pretty good cheese can be made with store bought.
The mozzarella recipe you probably have will make a nice cheese and is
pretty easy to get a very mozzarella like cheese. If stretched
properly, the final cheese will peel just like the "real" stuff.
However you will find it doesn't taste quite the same. Lipase and a
more involved recipe are needed for that. The taste is why I eventually
gave up the basic mozzarella. I worked at it until I was consistent and
have since moved back to hard pressed cheeses. You could also try
making queso blanco which is even simpler than mozzarella, but has a
taste on par with the work in making it....none! Both of these cheeses
will give you the experience and introduce you to the nuances of
cheesemaking, then hook you on the hobby for life. As with all artisan
foods, the process is simple but the task an art form. Monet didn't
learn impressionist painting over night.

Feel free to ask me anything about cheesemaking. I'm not an expert by
any means but I enjoy cheesemaking quite a bit and have been doing it
long enough to have made many mistakes

Jenson Olmstead
Lover of all things food

"yetanotherBob" > wrote

> I did play around with making cheese years ago, when I could get fresh
> raw goat's milk from my brother.

Question, did you have to squeeze him very hard to get
enough to make cheese?

Just curious.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:
> "yetanotherBob" > wrote
>
> > I did play around with making cheese years ago, when I could get fresh
> > raw goat's milk from my brother.
>
> Question, did you have to squeeze him very hard to get
> enough to make cheese?
>
> Just curious.
>
> nancy


Ah, Hah, hah, hah.

Oops, I mean LOL.

In article >,
says...
>
> "yetanotherBob" > wrote
>
> > I did play around with making cheese years ago, when I could get fresh
> > raw goat's milk from my brother.
>
> Question, did you have to squeeze him very hard to get
> enough to make cheese?
>
> Just curious.
>
> nancy
>
>
Actually, it's "how", not "how hard", you squeeze that makes the
difference in obtaining milk. Technique isn't just important, it's
everything.

I can show you the whey, if you're interested.

Bob

Nancy Young wrote on 14 Jan 2007 in rec.food.cooking

> Question, did you have to squeeze him very hard to get
> enough to make cheese?
>
> Just curious.
>
> nancy
>
>
>
>

Shoulda just used one of his socks....

nogoer wrote:
> merryb wrote:
> > I found a recipe to make mozzerella, and it calls for whole milk- is
> > this just regular pasturized milk, or does it need to be raw? I don't
> > have the recipe in front of me, but I thought maybe someone might know.
> > Thought this would be a fun thing to try...
>
> Merryb,
>
> This is a great cheese to try as one of your first attempts at
> cheesemaking. It can be eaten as soon as the cheese has cooled after
> stretching. There are a few recipes floating out there for 1 hour, half
> hour type mozzarella made in the microwave and stove. I can post a one
> hour recipe I have made successfully many times if you like? It
> basically consists of warming the milk, acidifying the warmed milk with
> citric acid, draining the curd then heating in the microwave until
> it's stretchable. That's over simplified, but it shows the basic
> steps.
>
> You do need to be careful of using whole milk for one reason. If it is
> ultra-pasteurized you won't get the proper curd set you need. I have
> found VERY few store bought milks actually label it "ultra". There is
> no law saying it has to be labeled as ultra, only that it's been
> pasteurized. Calcium chloride can help reset the milk proteins, but
> hasn't always worked in my experience. The better thing to do is use
> skim or fat free milk then add 1 pint of heavy cream to it. There is
> much more consistency doing it this way because the cream still has the
> proper proteins. Ultra pasteurization destroys the structure and leads
> to a cottage cheese type curd which won't properly bind.
>
> Raw milk is the holy grail of home cheesemakers these days. I can't
> get it anywhere, but pretty good cheese can be made with store bought.
> The mozzarella recipe you probably have will make a nice cheese and is
> pretty easy to get a very mozzarella like cheese. If stretched
> properly, the final cheese will peel just like the "real" stuff.
> However you will find it doesn't taste quite the same. Lipase and a
> more involved recipe are needed for that. The taste is why I eventually
> gave up the basic mozzarella. I worked at it until I was consistent and
> have since moved back to hard pressed cheeses. You could also try
> making queso blanco which is even simpler than mozzarella, but has a
> taste on par with the work in making it....none! Both of these cheeses
> will give you the experience and introduce you to the nuances of
> cheesemaking, then hook you on the hobby for life. As with all artisan
> foods, the process is simple but the task an art form. Monet didn't
> learn impressionist painting over night.
>
> Feel free to ask me anything about cheesemaking. I'm not an expert by
> any means but I enjoy cheesemaking quite a bit and have been doing it
> long enough to have made many mistakes
>
> Jenson Olmstead
> Lover of all things food
Thank you for the great response-I would have replied before as I've
been on vacation for the past few days. I am anxious to try this! Since
you offered, I will ask! Have you tried to make any hard cheeses? I
know my recipe calls for rennett...I'm hoping I don't have too hard of
a time finding it- can citric acid be used instead in case ?

On 17 Jan 2007 11:24:45 -0800, "merryb" > wrote:

>
>nogoer wrote:
>> merryb wrote:
>> > I found a recipe to make mozzerella, and it calls for whole milk- is
>> > this just regular pasturized milk, or does it need to be raw? I don't
>> > have the recipe in front of me, but I thought maybe someone might know.
>> > Thought this would be a fun thing to try...
>>
>> Merryb,
>>
>> This is a great cheese to try as one of your first attempts at
>> cheesemaking. It can be eaten as soon as the cheese has cooled after
>> stretching. There are a few recipes floating out there for 1 hour, half
>> hour type mozzarella made in the microwave and stove. I can post a one
>> hour recipe I have made successfully many times if you like? It
>> basically consists of warming the milk, acidifying the warmed milk with
>> citric acid, draining the curd then heating in the microwave until
>> it's stretchable. That's over simplified, but it shows the basic
>> steps.
>>
>> You do need to be careful of using whole milk for one reason. If it is
>> ultra-pasteurized you won't get the proper curd set you need. I have
>> found VERY few store bought milks actually label it "ultra". There is
>> no law saying it has to be labeled as ultra, only that it's been
>> pasteurized. Calcium chloride can help reset the milk proteins, but
>> hasn't always worked in my experience. The better thing to do is use
>> skim or fat free milk then add 1 pint of heavy cream to it. There is
>> much more consistency doing it this way because the cream still has the
>> proper proteins. Ultra pasteurization destroys the structure and leads
>> to a cottage cheese type curd which won't properly bind.
>>
>> Raw milk is the holy grail of home cheesemakers these days. I can't
>> get it anywhere, but pretty good cheese can be made with store bought.
>> The mozzarella recipe you probably have will make a nice cheese and is
>> pretty easy to get a very mozzarella like cheese. If stretched
>> properly, the final cheese will peel just like the "real" stuff.
>> However you will find it doesn't taste quite the same. Lipase and a
>> more involved recipe are needed for that. The taste is why I eventually
>> gave up the basic mozzarella. I worked at it until I was consistent and
>> have since moved back to hard pressed cheeses. You could also try
>> making queso blanco which is even simpler than mozzarella, but has a
>> taste on par with the work in making it....none! Both of these cheeses
>> will give you the experience and introduce you to the nuances of
>> cheesemaking, then hook you on the hobby for life. As with all artisan
>> foods, the process is simple but the task an art form. Monet didn't
>> learn impressionist painting over night.
>>
>> Feel free to ask me anything about cheesemaking. I'm not an expert by
>> any means but I enjoy cheesemaking quite a bit and have been doing it
>> long enough to have made many mistakes
>>
>> Jenson Olmstead
>> Lover of all things food
>Thank you for the great response-I would have replied before as I've
>been on vacation for the past few days. I am anxious to try this! Since
>you offered, I will ask! Have you tried to make any hard cheeses? I
>know my recipe calls for rennett...I'm hoping I don't have too hard of
>a time finding it- can citric acid be used instead in case ?


Junket makes rennet tablets. The address is Redco Foods, Inc.
P.O. Box 879
Windsor, CT 06095

--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974

merryb wrote:

> Thank you for the great response-I would have replied before as I've
> been on vacation for the past few days. I am anxious to try this! Since
> you offered, I will ask! Have you tried to make any hard cheeses? I
> know my recipe calls for rennett...I'm hoping I don't have too hard of
> a time finding it- can citric acid be used instead in case ?

You can't sub citric acid for rennet (or acetic acid, or
any other acid). You can only sub one acid for another,
and even that can change your results.

There are cheeses that are coagulated by enzymes
and ones that are coagulated by acids. Rennet
is in the enzyme category. You can only substitute
a different kind of rennet, and there are several
kinds.

As far as hard/aged cheeses, try and get experience
with soft cheeses first. When you really have those
down pat you're ready for hard cheeses.

You'll need at least one cheese press of some sort.
More than one is better.

I started using plain old off-the-shelf cans and it
worked quite well. I use cheese presses now but I
wouldn't spend the money until you're sure you
want to make the investment.

Find a can of appropriate size and open it at both
ends. When you're ready to press, add the cheese in,
slide the ends of the can over the cheese, and leave
it in the fridge with some weight on it. You'll
usually flip is a few times during the pressing
phase, depending on the recipe. Some types of
cheese are also aged after pressing.

--
Reg

Reg wrote:
> merryb wrote:
>
> > Thank you for the great response-I would have replied before as I've
> > been on vacation for the past few days. I am anxious to try this! Since
> > you offered, I will ask! Have you tried to make any hard cheeses? I
> > know my recipe calls for rennett...I'm hoping I don't have too hard of
> > a time finding it- can citric acid be used instead in case ?
>
> You can't sub citric acid for rennet (or acetic acid, or
> any other acid). You can only sub one acid for another,
> and even that can change your results.
>
> There are cheeses that are coagulated by enzymes
> and ones that are coagulated by acids. Rennet
> is in the enzyme category. You can only substitute
> a different kind of rennet, and there are several
> kinds.
>
> As far as hard/aged cheeses, try and get experience
> with soft cheeses first. When you really have those
> down pat you're ready for hard cheeses.
>
> You'll need at least one cheese press of some sort.
> More than one is better.
>
> I started using plain old off-the-shelf cans and it
> worked quite well. I use cheese presses now but I
> wouldn't spend the money until you're sure you
> want to make the investment.
>
> Find a can of appropriate size and open it at both
> ends. When you're ready to press, add the cheese in,
> slide the ends of the can over the cheese, and leave
> it in the fridge with some weight on it. You'll
> usually flip is a few times during the pressing
> phase, depending on the recipe. Some types of
> cheese are also aged after pressing.
>
> --
> Reg
Thank you for your reply!! What about additions like sun dried
tomatoes, herbs, olives- any problems doing that? Of course, I will try
the recipe before I start tweaking stuff!

merryb wrote:

> Thank you for your reply!! What about additions like sun dried
> tomatoes, herbs, olives- any problems doing that? Of course, I will try
> the recipe before I start tweaking stuff!
>

Coming up with your own combinations and recipes, adding
this and that, etc is the main reason for making instead
of buying. The ingredients you mentioned are all great. I
have a feeling you're going to be really good at this.

--
Reg

merryb wrote:
> nogoer wrote:
> > merryb wrote:
> > > I found a recipe to make mozzerella, and it calls for whole milk- is
> > > this just regular pasturized milk, or does it need to be raw? I don't
> > > have the recipe in front of me, but I thought maybe someone might know.
> > > Thought this would be a fun thing to try...
> >
> > Merryb,
> >
> > This is a great cheese to try as one of your first attempts at
> > cheesemaking. It can be eaten as soon as the cheese has cooled after
> > stretching. There are a few recipes floating out there for 1 hour, half
> > hour type mozzarella made in the microwave and stove. I can post a one
> > hour recipe I have made successfully many times if you like? It
> > basically consists of warming the milk, acidifying the warmed milk with
> > citric acid, draining the curd then heating in the microwave until
> > it's stretchable. That's over simplified, but it shows the basic
> > steps.
> >
> > You do need to be careful of using whole milk for one reason. If it is
> > ultra-pasteurized you won't get the proper curd set you need. I have
> > found VERY few store bought milks actually label it "ultra". There is
> > no law saying it has to be labeled as ultra, only that it's been
> > pasteurized. Calcium chloride can help reset the milk proteins, but
> > hasn't always worked in my experience. The better thing to do is use
> > skim or fat free milk then add 1 pint of heavy cream to it. There is
> > much more consistency doing it this way because the cream still has the
> > proper proteins. Ultra pasteurization destroys the structure and leads
> > to a cottage cheese type curd which won't properly bind.
> >
> > Raw milk is the holy grail of home cheesemakers these days. I can't
> > get it anywhere, but pretty good cheese can be made with store bought.
> > The mozzarella recipe you probably have will make a nice cheese and is
> > pretty easy to get a very mozzarella like cheese. If stretched
> > properly, the final cheese will peel just like the "real" stuff.
> > However you will find it doesn't taste quite the same. Lipase and a
> > more involved recipe are needed for that. The taste is why I eventually
> > gave up the basic mozzarella. I worked at it until I was consistent and
> > have since moved back to hard pressed cheeses. You could also try
> > making queso blanco which is even simpler than mozzarella, but has a
> > taste on par with the work in making it....none! Both of these cheeses
> > will give you the experience and introduce you to the nuances of
> > cheesemaking, then hook you on the hobby for life. As with all artisan
> > foods, the process is simple but the task an art form. Monet didn't
> > learn impressionist painting over night.
> >
> > Feel free to ask me anything about cheesemaking. I'm not an expert by
> > any means but I enjoy cheesemaking quite a bit and have been doing it
> > long enough to have made many mistakes
> >
> > Jenson Olmstead
> > Lover of all things food
> Thank you for the great response-I would have replied before as I've
> been on vacation for the past few days. I am anxious to try this! Since
> you offered, I will ask! Have you tried to make any hard cheeses? I
> know my recipe calls for rennett...I'm hoping I don't have too hard of
> a time finding it- can citric acid be used instead in case ?

No you can't sub citric acid for rennet, I made a mistake my recipe
does use rennet as well. The citric acid is used to achieve the proper
acidity for the cheese to do its thing. Do not try and use junket
rennet, I have been warned a few times, and it's not the same thing
as cheese rennet. You may be able to find vegetable based rennet at a
local health food store. Its liquid based and easier to use than rennet
tablets. You can also probably find citric acid at the same place with
all the vitamins, I did.

Yes I have made hard cheeses a few times, in fact I have one ageing now
and another drying almost ready for ageing. I have yet to have total
success with it though. As Reg mentioned I may be at that point to
splurge on a real press. I have spent the last month trying to fashion
my own with very little luck because my mold is a bit short. I am
making the hard cheeses so I can do as you'd like to and add my own
extras like chopped peppers or herbs.

Have fun with the mozzarella, you can also try whey ricotta with the
leftover whey. It has a very small yield and a small curd but oh it
tastes so good! If you keep at it you should be ready to try a hard
cheese once you feel comfortable with the process a few times. Hard
cheeses mainly differ from mozzarella in the pressing stage. A simple
press can be made with cheese cloth and a weight to try it without a
major money investment.

Jenson

On Jan 17, 4:13 pm, "nogoer" > wrote:
> merryb wrote:
> > nogoer wrote:
> > > merryb wrote:
> > > > I found a recipe to make mozzerella, and it calls for whole milk- is
> > > > this just regular pasturized milk, or does it need to be raw? I don't
> > > > have the recipe in front of me, but I thought maybe someone might know.
> > > > Thought this would be a fun thing to try...
>
> > > Merryb,
>
> > > This is a great cheese to try as one of your first attempts at
> > > cheesemaking. It can be eaten as soon as the cheese has cooled after
> > > stretching. There are a few recipes floating out there for 1 hour, half
> > > hour type mozzarella made in the microwave and stove. I can post a one
> > > hour recipe I have made successfully many times if you like? It
> > > basically consists of warming the milk, acidifying the warmed milk with
> > > citric acid, draining the curd then heating in the microwave until
> > > it's stretchable. That's over simplified, but it shows the basic
> > > steps.
>
> > > You do need to be careful of using whole milk for one reason. If it is
> > > ultra-pasteurized you won't get the proper curd set you need. I have
> > > found VERY few store bought milks actually label it "ultra". There is
> > > no law saying it has to be labeled as ultra, only that it's been
> > > pasteurized. Calcium chloride can help reset the milk proteins, but
> > > hasn't always worked in my experience. The better thing to do is use
> > > skim or fat free milk then add 1 pint of heavy cream to it. There is
> > > much more consistency doing it this way because the cream still has the
> > > proper proteins. Ultra pasteurization destroys the structure and leads
> > > to a cottage cheese type curd which won't properly bind.
>
> > > Raw milk is the holy grail of home cheesemakers these days. I can't
> > > get it anywhere, but pretty good cheese can be made with store bought.
> > > The mozzarella recipe you probably have will make a nice cheese and is
> > > pretty easy to get a very mozzarella like cheese. If stretched
> > > properly, the final cheese will peel just like the "real" stuff.
> > > However you will find it doesn't taste quite the same. Lipase and a
> > > more involved recipe are needed for that. The taste is why I eventually
> > > gave up the basic mozzarella. I worked at it until I was consistent and
> > > have since moved back to hard pressed cheeses. You could also try
> > > making queso blanco which is even simpler than mozzarella, but has a
> > > taste on par with the work in making it....none! Both of these cheeses
> > > will give you the experience and introduce you to the nuances of
> > > cheesemaking, then hook you on the hobby for life. As with all artisan
> > > foods, the process is simple but the task an art form. Monet didn't
> > > learn impressionist painting over night.
>
> > > Feel free to ask me anything about cheesemaking. I'm not an expert by
> > > any means but I enjoy cheesemaking quite a bit and have been doing it
> > > long enough to have made many mistakes
>
> > > Jenson Olmstead
> > > Lover of all things food
> > Thank you for the great response-I would have replied before as I've
> > been on vacation for the past few days. I am anxious to try this! Since
> > you offered, I will ask! Have you tried to make any hard cheeses? I
> > know my recipe calls for rennett...I'm hoping I don't have too hard of
> > a time finding it- can citric acid be used instead in case ?No you can't sub citric acid for rennet, I made a mistake my recipe
> does use rennet as well. The citric acid is used to achieve the proper
> acidity for the cheese to do its thing. Do not try and use junket
> rennet, I have been warned a few times, and it's not the same thing
> as cheese rennet. You may be able to find vegetable based rennet at a
> local health food store. Its liquid based and easier to use than rennet
> tablets. You can also probably find citric acid at the same place with
> all the vitamins, I did.
>
> Yes I have made hard cheeses a few times, in fact I have one ageing now
> and another drying almost ready for ageing. I have yet to have total
> success with it though. As Reg mentioned I may be at that point to
> splurge on a real press. I have spent the last month trying to fashion
> my own with very little luck because my mold is a bit short. I am
> making the hard cheeses so I can do as you'd like to and add my own
> extras like chopped peppers or herbs.
>
> Have fun with the mozzarella, you can also try whey ricotta with the
> leftover whey. It has a very small yield and a small curd but oh it
> tastes so good! If you keep at it you should be ready to try a hard
> cheese once you feel comfortable with the process a few times. Hard
> cheeses mainly differ from mozzarella in the pressing stage. A simple
> press can be made with cheese cloth and a weight to try it without a
> major money investment.
>
> Jenson- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
Hey, if you are around, I could really use your opinion. I started my
mozzerella last night, and I am having problems. I heated my milk to
97 degrees, and added my buttermilk. Added rennett after 15 min, and
waited for it to achieve a "clean break" for about 3 hours. Nothing! I
went to bed, leaving it in a warm place. When I looked at it this
morning, it looked curdled. I almost threw it out, but decided to wait
a little. Now I look, and it has seperated- I guess whey on top? There
appears to be a solid mass, but it isn't solid at all, so it can't be
cut into squares as the recipe directs. So, is it garbage, or should i
wait to see what happens? I followed the directions to a "T", and I
wonder if the age of the buttermilk is the problem- it's not as new as
I would have liked- expires on the 27th. Milk was good, tho. TIA

On Jan 27, 2:30 pm, "merryb" > wrote:
<snip>

I think the buttermilk is your problem. The mozzarella needs to have
the proper acidity before the curd will set properly. If the
buttermilk isnt active enough it wont do its thing to get the milk
ready for the rennet. I have also tried using buttermilk as a starter
and i havent had much luck. My suggestion is to use a different
recipe, one of the citric acid style. Leeners.com has a 1 hour version
and cheesemaking.com has a 30 min version, i prefer the leeners
version. It is fairly well documented and i was able to make
mozzerella from the recipe with success my first time.

The curd should set pretty quickly for any mozzarella recipe as long
as the milk has reached the proper acidity. I think your recent
attempt isnt going to make mozzarella, but it isnt a total failure. It
at least gave you some experience in knowing what is what with the
milk. Cheese isnt hard to make, but its easy to screw up and I think
you have initiated yourself into that idea. A citric acid recipe will
make it easier to insure the milk is ready for rennet. The leeners
recipe also has constant mixing and omits the clean break set and
cutting of the curd. With mozzarella those few steps arent so specific
because the curd is stretched and molded into shape anyway.

One other suggestion i have is to try a different brand of milk. If
the milk is ultra pastuerized and didnt say it would give you a poor
set and bad curd. Im not quite sure thats what happened to you, but
one of my mozz attempts had nasty curd and wouldnt combine into a
solid mass. Switching my milk solved the problem. I think one of your
first hurdles will be finding a good milk before you'll have total
success at any type of cheese. The milk ingredient is just so
important to have right.

If you would like you can go ahead and email me directly, its easier
to help out that way and i check email every day.

Jenson

On Jan 27, 2:05 pm, "nogoer" > wrote:
> On Jan 27, 2:30 pm, "merryb" > wrote:
> <snip>
>
> I think the buttermilk is your problem. The mozzarella needs to have
> the proper acidity before the curd will set properly. If the
> buttermilk isnt active enough it wont do its thing to get the milk
> ready for the rennet. I have also tried using buttermilk as a starter
> and i havent had much luck. My suggestion is to use a different
> recipe, one of the citric acid style. Leeners.com has a 1 hour version
> and cheesemaking.com has a 30 min version, i prefer the leeners
> version. It is fairly well documented and i was able to make
> mozzerella from the recipe with success my first time.
>
> The curd should set pretty quickly for any mozzarella recipe as long
> as the milk has reached the proper acidity. I think your recent
> attempt isnt going to make mozzarella, but it isnt a total failure. It
> at least gave you some experience in knowing what is what with the
> milk. Cheese isnt hard to make, but its easy to screw up and I think
> you have initiated yourself into that idea. A citric acid recipe will
> make it easier to insure the milk is ready for rennet. The leeners
> recipe also has constant mixing and omits the clean break set and
> cutting of the curd. With mozzarella those few steps arent so specific
> because the curd is stretched and molded into shape anyway.
>
> One other suggestion i have is to try a different brand of milk. If
> the milk is ultra pastuerized and didnt say it would give you a poor
> set and bad curd. Im not quite sure thats what happened to you, but
> one of my mozz attempts had nasty curd and wouldnt combine into a
> solid mass. Switching my milk solved the problem. I think one of your
> first hurdles will be finding a good milk before you'll have total
> success at any type of cheese. The milk ingredient is just so
> important to have right.
>
> If you would like you can go ahead and email me directly, its easier
> to help out that way and i check email every day.
>
> Jenson

On Jan 27, 2:05 pm, "nogoer" > wrote:
> On Jan 27, 2:30 pm, "merryb" > wrote:
> <snip>
>
> I think the buttermilk is your problem. The mozzarella needs to have
> the proper acidity before the curd will set properly. If the
> buttermilk isnt active enough it wont do its thing to get the milk
> ready for the rennet. I have also tried using buttermilk as a starter
> and i havent had much luck. My suggestion is to use a different
> recipe, one of the citric acid style. Leeners.com has a 1 hour version
> and cheesemaking.com has a 30 min version, i prefer the leeners
> version. It is fairly well documented and i was able to make
> mozzerella from the recipe with success my first time.
>
> The curd should set pretty quickly for any mozzarella recipe as long
> as the milk has reached the proper acidity. I think your recent
> attempt isnt going to make mozzarella, but it isnt a total failure. It
> at least gave you some experience in knowing what is what with the
> milk. Cheese isnt hard to make, but its easy to screw up and I think
> you have initiated yourself into that idea. A citric acid recipe will
> make it easier to insure the milk is ready for rennet. The leeners
> recipe also has constant mixing and omits the clean break set and
> cutting of the curd. With mozzarella those few steps arent so specific
> because the curd is stretched and molded into shape anyway.
>
> One other suggestion i have is to try a different brand of milk. If
> the milk is ultra pastuerized and didnt say it would give you a poor
> set and bad curd. Im not quite sure thats what happened to you, but
> one of my mozz attempts had nasty curd and wouldnt combine into a
> solid mass. Switching my milk solved the problem. I think one of your
> first hurdles will be finding a good milk before you'll have total
> success at any type of cheese. The milk ingredient is just so
> important to have right.
>
> If you would like you can go ahead and email me directly, its easier
> to help out that way and i check email every day.
>
> Jenson

Jenson, you rock! Thank you for your very informative reply- I'm
trying again. This time, I have fresher buttermilk. Unfortunately, I
got your response after I had gone to the store, so I don't have
citric acid on hand. So I will try again, and hope you're right about
the buttermilk. If it doesn't work, then I will go with your
recommendation on another formula. Hopefully you will be around
tomorrow so I can report back to you a success!

On Jan 27, 8:34 pm, "merryb" > wrote:
> On Jan 27, 2:05 pm, "nogoer" > wrote:
<snip>
> > JensonJenson, you rock! Thank you for your very informative reply- I'm
> trying again. This time, I have fresher buttermilk. Unfortunately, I
> got your response after I had gone to the store, so I don't have
> citric acid on hand. So I will try again, and hope you're right about
> the buttermilk. If it doesn't work, then I will go with your
> recommendation on another formula. Hopefully you will be around
> tomorrow so I can report back to you a success!- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Your too kind, im more than happy to share my experiences.
Cheesemaking is one topic i have had a great amount of difficulty
finding help on and i take every opportunity to share what i have
learned. There are so many different things that can happen with the
cheese that i just couldnt find any answers anywhere. There is very
little information on the web and most of it is mis-information as
well.

Could you email me your recipe? I would like to see the ingredients
and process it outlines.

I'm still on the fence on using buttermilk for cheese. I like how its
easy to get and i dont need to worry about proper storage like a
culture needs. However both hard cheeses i made using it as the
starter came out sour, slightly bitter tasting. I was able to obtain a
good curd, but hard cheese ripens for a good hour and has a better
chance to set properly than your mozzarella recipe. The short ripen
time on these web mozzy recipes requires perfect acidity in a quick
time. You could try using more buttermilk than the recipe calls for to
help the culture get a better foothold.

You know i just realized something that may be a fundamental flaw in
your recipe. Buttermilk is a mesophilic culture. Meaning it likes
lower temps say around 80 degrees to do its thing. Mozzarella, i think
is a thermophilic cheese meaning to obtain success it needs to be
higher temps in the range of 100 degrees F. When you make the cheese
and heat the milk that high your killing the bacteria in the
buttermilk. My recipe calls for a temp of 105, but it uses citric acid
so there is nothing to kill. I do know yogurt is a thermophilic
culture so you could try using that instead. Otherwise im not sure if
your recipe is going to work, you will have to be very careful with
your temps to make sure the buttermilk culture gets toasty but not
fried

If you do find success take some pics, id like to see how you shape
your cheese. I have had best success by stretching the cheese til
almost cool then dumping it on a square of saran gathering the corners
and twisting until it smooths into an oval/ball shape. Then i put the
whole thing in an ice bath to cool.

Oh and sorry for the long winded posts, i always start out thinking
simple and then embellish with nonsense.

Jenson

On Jan 28, 5:02 am, "nogoer" > wrote:
> On Jan 27, 8:34 pm, "merryb" > wrote:
>
> > On Jan 27, 2:05 pm, "nogoer" > wrote:
> <snip>
> > > JensonJenson, you rock! Thank you for your very informative reply- I'm
> > trying again. This time, I have fresher buttermilk. Unfortunately, I
> > got your response after I had gone to the store, so I don't have
> > citric acid on hand. So I will try again, and hope you're right about
> > the buttermilk. If it doesn't work, then I will go with your
> > recommendation on another formula. Hopefully you will be around
> > tomorrow so I can report back to you a success!- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -Your too kind, im more than happy to share my experiences.
> Cheesemaking is one topic i have had a great amount of difficulty
> finding help on and i take every opportunity to share what i have
> learned. There are so many different things that can happen with the
> cheese that i just couldnt find any answers anywhere. There is very
> little information on the web and most of it is mis-information as
> well.
>
> Could you email me your recipe? I would like to see the ingredients
> and process it outlines.
>
> I'm still on the fence on using buttermilk for cheese. I like how its
> easy to get and i dont need to worry about proper storage like a
> culture needs. However both hard cheeses i made using it as the
> starter came out sour, slightly bitter tasting. I was able to obtain a
> good curd, but hard cheese ripens for a good hour and has a better
> chance to set properly than your mozzarella recipe. The short ripen
> time on these web mozzy recipes requires perfect acidity in a quick
> time. You could try using more buttermilk than the recipe calls for to
> help the culture get a better foothold.
>
> You know i just realized something that may be a fundamental flaw in
> your recipe. Buttermilk is a mesophilic culture. Meaning it likes
> lower temps say around 80 degrees to do its thing. Mozzarella, i think
> is a thermophilic cheese meaning to obtain success it needs to be
> higher temps in the range of 100 degrees F. When you make the cheese
> and heat the milk that high your killing the bacteria in the
> buttermilk. My recipe calls for a temp of 105, but it uses citric acid
> so there is nothing to kill. I do know yogurt is a thermophilic
> culture so you could try using that instead. Otherwise im not sure if
> your recipe is going to work, you will have to be very careful with
> your temps to make sure the buttermilk culture gets toasty but not
> fried
>
> If you do find success take some pics, id like to see how you shape
> your cheese. I have had best success by stretching the cheese til
> almost cool then dumping it on a square of saran gathering the corners
> and twisting until it smooths into an oval/ball shape. Then i put the
> whole thing in an ice bath to cool.
>
> Oh and sorry for the long winded posts, i always start out thinking
> simple and then embellish with nonsense.
>
> Jenson
Ok, failure #2. It seems to be trying to do something, but not what
it's suppossed to. It has separated, but the recipe calls for some of
the curd tobe dropped into 85 degree water and check to see if it
spins- the curds are way too fine to do that. I have no idea how to
email you directly as I am somewhat computer illiterate! I found the
recipe on the internet- here is the address
http://biology.clc.edu/fankhauser/Cheese/Pasta_Filata/
Pasta_Filata.html
My mom is going to try, also. I know she has citric acid, so maybe I
will try a new formula. I SO appreciate all your help- I am detirmined
to make a go of this!

<snip>
> > JensonOk, failure #2. It seems to be trying to do something, but not what
> it's suppossed to. It has separated, but the recipe calls for some of
> the curd tobe dropped into 85 degree water and check to see if it
> spins- the curds are way too fine to do that. I have no idea how to
> email you directly as I am somewhat computer illiterate! I found the
> recipe on the internet- here is the addresshttp://biology.clc.edu/fankhauser/Cheese/Pasta_Filata/
> Pasta_Filata.html
> My mom is going to try, also. I know she has citric acid, so maybe I
> will try a new formula. I SO appreciate all your help- I am detirmined
> to make a go of this!- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Ah, i remember comming across the frankhauser pages for some other
stuff. If i remember correctly its the same place i found out how to
use buttermilk as a mesophiliic starter. I'm sure he had success in
some ways but his stuff is greatly out of date and he omits alot of
minor details. Its good reading but you have to pick and choose what
works for you. Either way all his stuff on using buttermilk i think
may have been intended for true buttermilk not the store bought stuff
we get. I tried to follow the link and i know i have been there
before, but his pages weren't coming up. Now that i know where your
recipe came from i definately reccomend using the one from
leeners.com.

Your references to fine curds has me concerned your milk is also
partly to blame. The fine curds are a result of ultra pastuerized milk
and its inability to meld into the proper curd. Im not sure where you
live, but i have had to get my milk from walmart. All the local milk
around here is all UP and most of the jugs don't even say so. If you
try a different brand of milk that may be enough to have a better
success even using frankausers recipe. One thing that does help with
weak milk is calcium chloride, but youll have to order it online most
likely.

Here is the link to leeners.com http://www.leeners.com/mozzarella.html
its a very informative site, they sell all you need and they have
pictures for all the steps. Im not associated with them and i have my
own artisan food site, but thier recipe was the first cheese i
succesfully made.

Good Luck and don't get discouraged, its very easy to do so with
cheesemaking If you want to email me questions use your normal
email program, my email is nogoer AT yahoo.com just replace the at
with @.

Have fun
Jenson

On Jan 28, 11:11 am, "nogoer" > wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > > JensonOk, failure #2. It seems to be trying to do something, but not what
> > it's suppossed to. It has separated, but the recipe calls for some of
> > the curd tobe dropped into 85 degree water and check to see if it
> > spins- the curds are way too fine to do that. I have no idea how to
> > email you directly as I am somewhat computer illiterate! I found the
> > recipe on the internet- here is the addresshttp://biology.clc.edu/fankhauser/Cheese/Pasta_Filata/
> > Pasta_Filata.html
> > My mom is going to try, also. I know she has citric acid, so maybe I
> > will try a new formula. I SO appreciate all your help- I am detirmined
> > to make a go of this!- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -Ah, i remember comming across the frankhauser pages for some other
> stuff. If i remember correctly its the same place i found out how to
> use buttermilk as a mesophiliic starter. I'm sure he had success in
> some ways but his stuff is greatly out of date and he omits alot of
> minor details. Its good reading but you have to pick and choose what
> works for you. Either way all his stuff on using buttermilk i think
> may have been intended for true buttermilk not the store bought stuff
> we get. I tried to follow the link and i know i have been there
> before, but his pages weren't coming up. Now that i know where your
> recipe came from i definately reccomend using the one from
> leeners.com.
>
> Your references to fine curds has me concerned your milk is also
> partly to blame. The fine curds are a result of ultra pastuerized milk
> and its inability to meld into the proper curd. Im not sure where you
> live, but i have had to get my milk from walmart. All the local milk
> around here is all UP and most of the jugs don't even say so. If you
> try a different brand of milk that may be enough to have a better
> success even using frankausers recipe. One thing that does help with
> weak milk is calcium chloride, but youll have to order it online most
> likely.
>
> Here is the link to leeners.comhttp://www.leeners.com/mozzarella.html
> its a very informative site, they sell all you need and they have
> pictures for all the steps. Im not associated with them and i have my
> own artisan food site, but thier recipe was the first cheese i
> succesfully made.
>
> Good Luck and don't get discouraged, its very easy to do so with
> cheesemaking If you want to email me questions use your normal
> email program, my email is nogoer AT yahoo.com just replace the at
> with @.
>
> Have fun
> Jenson

Thank you again for the help. Now I'm bummed as I don't want to have
to wait to get the calcium chloride via mail order! I hate waiting!!
The link you sent me is a bit more informative, and I guess I will try
that. We have an artisan cheese shop here in my town (Gig Harbor, WA)-
maybe I can talk them into selling me some stuff. Do you think I
should try a different type of cheese as a first attempt?

On Jan 28, 2:26 pm, "merryb" > wrote:
> On Jan 28, 11:11 am, "nogoer" > wrote:
<snip>
> > Have fun
> > JensonThank you again for the help. Now I'm bummed as I don't want to have
> to wait to get the calcium chloride via mail order! I hate waiting!!
> The link you sent me is a bit more informative, and I guess I will try
> that. We have an artisan cheese shop here in my town (Gig Harbor, WA)-
> maybe I can talk them into selling me some stuff. Do you think I
> should try a different type of cheese as a first attempt?- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

No i think trying mozzarella is a decent cheese to start with. Calcium
chloride isnt a necessity, it just helps to get a better curd set if
you have it. You'll still be able to make the cheese just fine without
it. If your milk is UP the calcium chloride wont matter anyway. Even
if you continue to try your same recipe the leeners page will be a
better guide for the basics. Although the longer length of thier
recipe helps to achieve success a little easier.

Using a different recipe will help you to determine if the milk is at
fault or the recipe. If you can get citric acid and try the new recipe
and you still get the same fine curd and no solid mass then its your
milk.

Jenson

On Jan 29, 4:36 am, "nogoer" > wrote:
> On Jan 28, 2:26 pm, "merryb" > wrote:
>
> > On Jan 28, 11:11 am, "nogoer" > wrote:
> <snip>
> > > Have fun
> > > JensonThank you again for the help. Now I'm bummed as I don't want to have
> > to wait to get the calcium chloride via mail order! I hate waiting!!
> > The link you sent me is a bit more informative, and I guess I will try
> > that. We have an artisan cheese shop here in my town (Gig Harbor, WA)-
> > maybe I can talk them into selling me some stuff. Do you think I
> > should try a different type of cheese as a first attempt?- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
>
> No i think trying mozzarella is a decent cheese to start with. Calcium
> chloride isnt a necessity, it just helps to get a better curd set if
> you have it. You'll still be able to make the cheese just fine without
> it. If your milk is UP the calcium chloride wont matter anyway. Even
> if you continue to try your same recipe the leeners page will be a
> better guide for the basics. Although the longer length of thier
> recipe helps to achieve success a little easier.
>
> Using a different recipe will help you to determine if the milk is at
> fault or the recipe. If you can get citric acid and try the new recipe
> and you still get the same fine curd and no solid mass then its your
> milk.
>
> Jenson
Ok, I guess it was the recipe. I tried Leneer's formula for Mozzerella
last night, and it came together very nicely! I did find citric acid
in the bulk section of my local grocery store, but didn't use any of
the other stuff except salt. I did this around 9 last night, and put
in the fridge overnight. I'm looking forward to trying some in a
little bit, but I'm calling this attempt a success! Now I gotta try a
different type. Thanks for all your help.

On Feb 6, 11:19 am, "merryb" > wrote:
> On Jan 29, 4:36 am, "nogoer" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 28, 2:26 pm, "merryb" > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 28, 11:11 am, "nogoer" > wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > > Have fun
> > > > JensonThank you again for the help. Now I'm bummed as I don't want to have
> > > to wait to get the calcium chloride via mail order! I hate waiting!!
> > > The link you sent me is a bit more informative, and I guess I will try
> > > that. We have an artisan cheese shop here in my town (Gig Harbor, WA)-
> > > maybe I can talk them into selling me some stuff. Do you think I
> > > should try a different type of cheese as a first attempt?- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
>
> > No i think trying mozzarella is a decent cheese to start with. Calcium
> > chloride isnt a necessity, it just helps to get a better curd set if
> > you have it. You'll still be able to make the cheese just fine without
> > it. If your milk is UP the calcium chloride wont matter anyway. Even
> > if you continue to try your same recipe the leeners page will be a
> > better guide for the basics. Although the longer length of thier
> > recipe helps to achieve success a little easier.
>
> > Using a different recipe will help you to determine if the milk is at
> > fault or the recipe. If you can get citric acid and try the new recipe
> > and you still get the same fine curd and no solid mass then its your
> > milk.
>
> > Jenson
>
> Ok, I guess it was the recipe. I tried Leneer's formula for Mozzerella
> last night, and it came together very nicely! I did find citric acid
> in the bulk section of my local grocery store, but didn't use any of
> the other stuff except salt. I did this around 9 last night, and put
> in the fridge overnight. I'm looking forward to trying some in a
> little bit, but I'm calling this attempt a success! Now I gotta try a
> different type. Thanks for all your help.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Wonderful! Thats good news to hear you had success. Now your hooked
liked the rest of us. Its fun being able to make something that really
is simple but has such a complex mystique about it.