Tim Challenger <"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote:
>> Even that is no guarantee. Plenty of people who eat vegetarian diets die of
>> heart disease, cancer and other problems. Sometimes, it's just the luck of
>> the draw.
>
> Everyone has to die of something.

Not me! I'm going to achieve immortality or die trying...

--
Darryl L. Pierce >
Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/c/mcpierce>
"What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"

Frogleg > wrote:
> A totally vegan diet is, I believe, missing one essential vitamin (one
> of the B's), and it is recommended that vegans add this through
> supplements.

I think it's B12, and the only source is via animals, so they're in a
bit of a pickle...

--
Darryl L. Pierce >
Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/c/mcpierce>
"What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"

In article >, Frogleg
> wrote:

> On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:36:02 -0700, (Dan Abel) wrote:
>
> >"Darryl L. Pierce" > wrote:


> >> There's quite a difference between the calories you get from starches
> >> and the proteins you take in.
> >
> >There is no difference at all. Calories are a measure of the amount of
> >energy. Food calories used to be measured by taking a sample of the food,
> >burning it, and measuring the amount of heat produced.
>
> Nonsense. You might just as well say there's no nutritional difference
> between sugar, beef, and carrots.


Calories are calories. The nutritional value of different foods is
certainly different. Perhaps I didn't read Darryl's post correctly. I
thought he was claiming that calories from starches are different than
calories from protein.

There is a common misconception that foods that are normally considered as
starches, like potatoes, contain no other nutrients. Potatoes contain
several nutrients, including significant amounts of protein.


> 10% of a day's calories are by no means 10% of the a day's recommended
> allowance of protein.

As a matter of fact, it is, but only in reference to potatoes. The fact
that both percentages are "10" is a coincidence.


[snipped the rest, as we are in agreement]

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

In article m>, "Darryl
L. Pierce" > wrote:

> Dan Abel > wrote:


> Proteins are _not_ just calories. Proteins are a complex carbohydrate
> molecule that provide more than just energy (calories). Simple
> carbohydrates have to be combined (requiring more energy) to create
> proteins, which is the basic building block for the body. Proteins
> provide the full molecule that can then be adapted, as opposed to
> constructed, by the body.


Proteins are capable of being much more than just a calorie source. We
agree there. However, once you've used protein as a calorie source, you
cannot use that same protein as a building block. It could be compared to
a piece of wood. You can build something with it, or burn it for heat.
Once you've burned it, you can't build with it.


I'm still having problems with your terminology. Proteins are not
carbohydrates. Your body can manufacture some of the amino acids that it
uses to build human protein with. Some it can't. When you eat protein,
your body breaks it down into amino acids. It then combines those amino
acids to provide the protein your body needs to build cells.


[snipped the rest because we seem to be in agreement]

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS

"Darryl L. Pierce" wrote:
>
> Dan Abel > wrote:
> >> There's quite a difference between the calories you get from starches
> >> and the proteins you take in.
> >
> > There is no difference at all. Calories are a measure of the amount of
> > energy. Food calories used to be measured by taking a sample of the food,
> > burning it, and measuring the amount of heat produced.
>
> Proteins are _not_ just calories. Proteins are a complex carbohydrate
> molecule that provide more than just energy (calories). Simple
> carbohydrates have to be combined (requiring more energy) to create
> proteins, which is the basic building block for the body. Proteins
> provide the full molecule that can then be adapted, as opposed to
> constructed, by the body.
>
><snip>

Proteins are **not** carbohydrates! Where did you get that notion?

Proteins are made from amino acids. Some (but not all) amino acids can
be made through carbohydrate metabolism. However, that is not the
preferred route, as long as a pool of amino acids is available.
That normally comes from the ingestion of proteins. They are taken apart
by various enzymes and then put back as needed to make new protein.

Yes it's true that the calorie *content* of proteins are not the same as
the calorie content of carbs or fats. However, a calorie is indeed a
calorie.