http://search.washtimes.com/business...1637-4917r.htm

Irreparable Damage

By Bryce Baschuk
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published January 9, 2007


"Bill Jones, after 42 years, is finally closing the Procter Appliance
Service shop in Silver Spring.
"You can't make a good salary to survive on the way you could years
ago," said the 61-year-old owner of the oven, refrigerator and washer-dryer
repair shop. "Everything has changed in the appliance business."
Mr. Jones recently sold his home in Laurel and is in the process of
moving to Bluffton, S.C., with his wife, Jeannette.

Mr. Jones is one of the many Washington-area repairmen who have
struggled to stay afloat as residents replace, not repair, old appliances.
"It's a dying trade," said Scott Brown, Webmaster of www.fixitnow.com
and self-proclaimed "Samurai Appliance Repairman."

The reason for this is twofold, Mr. Brown said: The cost of appliances
is coming down because of cheap overseas labor and improved manufacturing
techniques, and repairmen are literally dying off.
The average age of appliance technicians is 42, and there are few young
repairmen to take their place, said Mr. Brown, 47. He has been repairing
appliances in New Hampshire for the past 13 years.
In the next seven years, the number of veteran appliance repairmen will
decrease nationwide as current workers retire or transfer to other
occupations, the Department of Labor said in its 2007 Occupational Outlook
Handbook.
The federal agency said many prospective repairmen prefer work that is
less strenuous and want more comfortable working conditions.

Local repairmen said it is simply a question of economics.
"Nowadays appliances are cheap, so people are just getting new ones,"
said Paul Singh, a manager at the Appliance Service Depot, a repair shop in
Northwest. "As a result, business has slowed down a lot."
"The average repair cost for a household appliance is $50 to $350," said
Shahid Rana, a service technician at Rana Refrigeration, a repair shop in
Capitol Heights. "If the repair is going to cost more than that, we usually
tell the customer to go out and buy a new one."
It's not uncommon for today's repairmen to condemn an appliance instead
of fixing it for the sake of their customers' wallets.
If they decide to repair an appliance that is likely to break down
again, repairmen are criticized by their customers and often lose business
because of a damaged reputation.

Mr. Jones said he based his repair decisions on the 50 percent rule: "If
the cost of service costs more than 50 percent of the price of a new
machine, I'll tell my customers to get a new one."
"A lot of customers want me to be honest with them, so I'll tell them my
opinion and leave the decision making up to them," he said.

In recent years, consumers have tended to buy new appliances when
existing warranties expire rather than repair old appliances, the Department
of Labor said.
Mr. Brown acknowledged this trend. "Lower-end appliances which you can
buy for $200 to $300 are basically throwaway appliances," he said. "They are
so inexpensive that you shouldn't pay to get them repaired."
"The quality of the materials that are being made aren't lasting," Mr.
Jones said. "Nowadays you're seeing more plastic and more circuit boards,
and they aren't holding up."

Many home appliances sold in the United States are made in Taiwan,
Singapore, China and Mexico.
"Nothing is made [in the United States] anymore," Mr. Jones said. "But
then again, American parts are only better to a point, a lot of U.S.
companies are all about the dollar."

Fortunately for the next generation of repairmen, some of today's
high-end appliances make service repairs the most cost-effective option.

The Department of Labor concurred. "Over the next decade, as more
consumers purchase higher-priced appliances designed to have much longer
lives, they will be more likely to use repair services than to purchase new
appliances," said the 2007 Occupational Outlook Handbook.

Modern, energy-efficient refrigerators can cost as much as $5,000 to
$10,000, and with such a hefty price tag, throwing one away is not an
option.
In some cases, repairmen can help consumers reduce the amount of
aggravation that a broken appliance will cause.

Consider the time and effort it takes to shop for a new appliance, wait
for its delivery, remove the old one and get the new one installed.

In addition, certain appliances such as ovens and washing machines can
be a bigger hassle to replace because they are connected to gas and water
lines.
"It takes your time, it takes your effort, and if you don't install the
new appliance, you'll have to hire a service technician to install it
anyways," Mr. Brown said.

Some consumers bond with their appliances like old pets, and for loyalty
or sentimental reasons, refuse to let them go.

Mr. Rana said some of his clients have appliances that are more than 30
years old. It makes sense, he said. "A lot of old refrigerators are worth
fixing because they give people good service. They just don't make things
like they used to."

</>

"Gregory Morrow" > wrote

> If they decide to repair an appliance that is likely to break down
> again, repairmen are criticized by their customers and often lose business
> because of a damaged reputation.

This is the real problem, in my experience. The repair parts were
crappy and the thing just breaks again in a matter of months. I can't
say as I've had satisfactory appliance repair ... ever. Any wonder
people don't feel like, essentially, flushing $250-300 down the toilet
before just buying a new one?

The sooner you realize you'll be buying a new oven/whatever, every
10 or 15 years, the better off you'll be. If you think this will be good
for another 30 years like that old one I had, you are setting yourself
up for aggravation. If nothing else, they have a lot more under the
hood, so to speak, than the older, simpler models, hence more things
to break.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:

> "Gregory Morrow" > wrote
>
> > If they decide to repair an appliance that is likely to break down
> > again, repairmen are criticized by their customers and often lose
business
> > because of a damaged reputation.
>
> This is the real problem, in my experience. The repair parts were
> crappy and the thing just breaks again in a matter of months. I can't
> say as I've had satisfactory appliance repair ... ever. Any wonder
> people don't feel like, essentially, flushing $250-300 down the toilet
> before just buying a new one?


Basic appliances (and electronic items) today are far cheaper in inflation -
adjusted dollars than decades ago, and these daze most everything is sold at
a discounted price point (remember those old terms "fair trade laws" and
"MSRP [Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price]". Thus many things are
manufactured cheaply and so are disposable, they are not designed to be
repairable. And today even simple stuff has lotsa electronic gimmickry
embedded, you can't fix things with a standard tool kit anymore (look even
at cars anymore, no more "grease monkeys", everything is "diagnostics"...)

[In the case of cars even the cheapest cars of today are far better in most
ways than a car of 40 - 50 years ago, but I digress...]


> The sooner you realize you'll be buying a new oven/whatever, every
> 10 or 15 years, the better off you'll be. If you think this will be good
> for another 30 years like that old one I had, you are setting yourself
> up for aggravation. If nothing else, they have a lot more under the
> hood, so to speak, than the older, simpler models, hence more things
> to break.


Yep, major appliances are designed for just about a ten - year lifespan,
sometimes shorter...

Friends of my parents still have an old International Harvester deep freeze
they bought new c. 1950. It's still doing yeoman service. I don't think in
2064 you'll see many examples of present - day appliances still being
used...

I know folks with 30 - year old microwaves, they are big monsters of things
but they are still chugging along. 'Course back then a microwave was a
major purchase, not something you pick up for $39.95 at Squallmart or
wherever...

--
Best
Greg

Gregory Morrow wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
> > "Gregory Morrow" > wrote
> >
> > > If they decide to repair an appliance that is likely to break down
> > > again, repairmen are criticized by their customers and often lose
> business
> > > because of a damaged reputation.
> >
> > This is the real problem, in my experience. The repair parts were
> > crappy and the thing just breaks again in a matter of months. I can't
> > say as I've had satisfactory appliance repair ... ever. Any wonder
> > people don't feel like, essentially, flushing $250-300 down the toilet
> > before just buying a new one?
>
> Basic appliances (and electronic items) today are far cheaper in inflation -
> adjusted dollars than decades ago, and these daze most everything is sold at
> a discounted price point (remember those old terms "fair trade laws" and
> "MSRP [Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price]". Thus many things are
> manufactured cheaply and so are disposable, they are not designed to be
> repairable. And today even simple stuff has lotsa electronic gimmickry
> embedded, you can't fix things with a standard tool kit anymore.
>
> > The sooner you realize you'll be buying a new oven/whatever, every
> > 10 or 15 years, the better off you'll be. If you think this will be good
> > for another 30 years like that old one I had, you are setting yourself
> > up for aggravation. If nothing else, they have a lot more under the
> > hood, so to speak, than the older, simpler models, hence more things
> > to break.
>
> Yep, major appliances are designed for just about a ten - year lifespan,
> sometimes shorter...

Basic appliances are still readily available, the kind landlords
furnish to tenants. But most sales people steer customers to those
with all the bells and whistles with their associated electronic
modules and a little extra trim... which more than doubles the price
and cuts the lifespan by 2/3. Without all the electronic controls that
$1,100 stove costs $600. A month after the five year warranty expires
that electronic module dies and costs $400 for the part and $100 for
the service call to replace it. Most folks will opt for the repair.
Had they purchased the basic no frills model it would cook just as well
and last some 30-40 years with only minor repairs one can do
themselves... oven just wouldn't turn on and off by itself, and a few
other hardly ever/never used functions.

You can buy a perfectly good fridge without all the gimmicks too, it'll
last twice as long as the one with all the thru the door features and
will cost about half as much.

Modern TVs are the most guilty for including never used options... that
$3,000 Sony wide screen would cost half as much and last twice as long
if it only it were available without all those functions that no one
ever uses, because they really have no use for them and because they'd
need to read, comprehend, and remember about 300 pages of highly
detailed instructions... most folks can barely use the most basic
features of the remote. I have a $3,000 Sony in my bedroom, I have no
idea how to use its myriad features... 95% of the time I only watch two
channels... and it's hooked up to cable with like 400 channels... and
most of the time it's on I'm not, I'm asleep. I do most of my TV
watching on the little $200 bare bones 13" Sony I have alongside my PC.

We are all technology addicts. And with expensive electronics it's
wise to buy the extended warranties.

Sheldon

"jay" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:55:00 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:
>
snip
>
> I am putting new drum rollers and a belt on my clothes dryer this
> morning..not fun.
>
>
> jay

My husband did that year before last. Last week he installed new brakes and
belts on the washer. The repair required a special tool to install a
spring. Cost of tool was over $20 and would be a special order from the
manufacturer and would take 20 business days to get here. My husband
manufactured the tool himself instead. Our washer and dryer set is 23 years
old and we see no reason to replace them. Parts for repair are generally
$50 or less.
Janet

Sheldon wrote:

> Basic appliances are still readily available, the kind landlords
> furnish to tenants. But most sales people steer customers to those
> with all the bells and whistles with their associated electronic
> modules and a little extra trim... which more than doubles the price
> and cuts the lifespan by 2/3. Without all the electronic controls that
> $1,100 stove costs $600. A month after the five year warranty expires
> that electronic module dies and costs $400 for the part and $100 for
> the service call to replace it. Most folks will opt for the repair.
> Had they purchased the basic no frills model it would cook just as well
> and last some 30-40 years with only minor repairs one can do
> themselves... oven just wouldn't turn on and off by itself, and a few
> other hardly ever/never used functions.


My stove needed repair or replacement a few months ago. The ceramic top was
cracked. It would have cost $450-500 for a replacement top, plus tax, and
another $100 or so for service. The oven door was getting pretty ratty.
There were two spots on it where it was starting to rust. A new Maytag
stove, was $549 with the coil burners or $689 with the ceramic top. I could
have got one with a larger oven (smaller storage drawer below, or extra
warming burner, dual control on one of the burners dso it could be a small
burner or a big burner, convention, programmable etc. We went with the
ceramic top without the extras. Works great.

> Modern TVs are the most guilty for including never used options... that
> $3,000 Sony wide screen would cost half as much and last twice as long
> if it only it were available without all those functions that no one
> ever uses, because they really have no use for them and because they'd
> need to read, comprehend, and remember about 300 pages of highly
> detailed instructions... most folks can barely use the most basic
> features of the remote. I have a $3,000 Sony in my bedroom, I have no
> idea how to use its myriad features... 95% of the time I only watch two
> channels... and it's hooked up to cable with like 400 channels... and
> most of the time it's on I'm not, I'm asleep. I do most of my TV
> watching on the little $200 bare bones 13" Sony I have alongside my PC.


I got a DVD player years ago. It was close to $500 back then, and now you
can get one with even better sound components for under $100 . I have
functions on that thing I have never used, and sometimes have trouble
getting it back to normal if I hit a button by mistake. All I need is
stop, start, eject, fast forward, revers and pause.

>We are all technology addicts. And with expensive electronics it's
> wise to buy the extended warranties.

Extended warranties are a rip off. There was a series of reports about
them here. People lose receipts, repairs take forever, and parts are often
unavailable. Clerks are encouraged to push the extended warranties because
they are pure profit for the stores.

jay wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:55:00 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:
>
> > "Gregory Morrow" > wrote
> >
> >> If they decide to repair an appliance that is likely to break down
> >> again, repairmen are criticized by their customers and often lose business
> >> because of a damaged reputation.
> >
> > This is the real problem, in my experience.
>
> I have had a few good repairs..but yes it seems that they are trying to
> help you fix something that is near death and they charge a pretty hefty
> rate here.
>
> I am putting new drum rollers and a belt on my clothes dryer this
> morning..not fun.

If you're smart while you have it apart you'll replace the heating
element too... all the bearings are ready to go too but that's kind of
costly to replace em all at once. Clothes dryers and washers are the
two most abused appliances... overloading... when you oveverload your
washer (and everyone does) naturally you are going to cram all that
load into the dryer too, do you have any idea how much that mass of wet
wash weighs? And most people wash and dry double the recommended load
and only clean the lint trap occasionally (should actually be cleaned
twice during each use, and once a month run through the dishwasher,
especially if you use fabric softener, and replaced every two years...
a clogged/raggedy lint filter makes a dryer work 2-4 times harder.),
even a slightly overloaded dryer needs to run twice as long while
straining under double the weight it was designed to bear, which means
all its parts wear out in 1/4 the time or less, and it uses 2-3 as much
energy. It's an engineering miracle that washers and dryers last more
than a year. If used properly clothes washers and dryers should easily
last 30 years with no repairs (other than fill hoses, and hopefully
that's never a repair, hopefully you'll change hoses *before* having a
major flood). It's much less expensive to wash a smaller load every
day than to save em up for half as many super loads... clothes will be
cleaner and last longer too, plus you'll use less detergent, not to
mention less water and far less electricity.

The people I bought this house from were farmers, they had two clothes
washers, a full bells and whistles model on the main floor... a heavy
duty no frills commercial washer in the basement for the filthy dirty
work clothes... soon as they came in from the farm work they had to
march right down into the basement to change, a deep sink down there
too for washing up. That washer came with the house and now I use it
for all heavy items and/or heavily soiled items like floor mats, large
towels, queen bed sheets, comforters, etc. That commercial machine is
a Sears, it's 32 years old now, cost $228, (they left me all the paper
work), works perfectly and has never been repaired other than new
hoses, has those metal flex hoses, everyone should change to those as
soon as a new washer is delivered, toss those crappy rubber things into
the trash right off. Washer hoses are always under full pressure, sure
as the sun rises one of those hoses is going to rupture, usually as
soon as you leave on a two week vacation, guaranteed. Even with the
metal flex hoses you should always shut the valves even when going away
for just a day. Both my washers have the lever type ball valves, I
shut them as soon as the wash is over.

Sheldon

Dave Smith wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
>
> > Basic appliances are still readily available, the kind landlords
> > furnish to tenants. But most sales people steer customers to those
> > with all the bells and whistles with their associated electronic
> > modules and a little extra trim... which more than doubles the price
> > and cuts the lifespan by 2/3. Without all the electronic controls that
> > $1,100 stove costs $600. A month after the five year warranty expires
> > that electronic module dies and costs $400 for the part and $100 for
> > the service call to replace it. Most folks will opt for the repair.
> > Had they purchased the basic no frills model it would cook just as well
> > and last some 30-40 years with only minor repairs one can do
> > themselves... oven just wouldn't turn on and off by itself, and a few
> > other hardly ever/never used functions.
>
>
> My stove needed repair or replacement a few months ago. The ceramic top was
> cracked. It would have cost $450-500 for a replacement top, plus tax, and
> another $100 or so for service. The oven door was getting pretty ratty.
> There were two spots on it where it was starting to rust. A new Maytag
> stove, was $549 with the coil burners or $689 with the ceramic top. I could
> have got one with a larger oven (smaller storage drawer below, or extra
> warming burner, dual control on one of the burners dso it could be a small
> burner or a big burner, convention, programmable etc. We went with the
> ceramic top without the extras. Works great.
>
> > Modern TVs are the most guilty for including never used options... that
> > $3,000 Sony wide screen would cost half as much and last twice as long
> > if it only it were available without all those functions that no one
> > ever uses, because they really have no use for them and because they'd
> > need to read, comprehend, and remember about 300 pages of highly
> > detailed instructions... most folks can barely use the most basic
> > features of the remote. I have a $3,000 Sony in my bedroom, I have no
> > idea how to use its myriad features... 95% of the time I only watch two
> > channels... and it's hooked up to cable with like 400 channels... and
> > most of the time it's on I'm not, I'm asleep. I do most of my TV
> > watching on the little $200 bare bones 13" Sony I have alongside my PC.
>
>
> I got a DVD player years ago. It was close to $500 back then, and now you
> can get one with even better sound components for under $100 . I have
> functions on that thing I have never used, and sometimes have trouble
> getting it back to normal if I hit a button by mistake. All I need is
> stop, start, eject, fast forward, revers and pause.

I have a DVD player someone gave me as a gift nearly four years ago as
a house gift when I moved here... I used it exactly one time...
actually I didn't use it, the person who gave it to me set it up and
played a DVD in it. It's connected to the TV in my living room,
haven't looked at it since, because I never watch that TV, because my
cats are not allowed in there with the museum furnishings. I know, I
could move that DVD player, but with over 400 channels on cable I've
never had an urge to watch a DVD. I have four TVs, one in my guest
room too. Not to mention that I can watch TV (and DVDs) on my PC.

> >We are all technology addicts. And with expensive electronics it's
> > wise to buy the extended warranties.
>
> Extended warranties are a rip off. There was a series of reports about
> them here. People lose receipts, repairs take forever, and parts are often
> unavailable. Clerks are encouraged to push the extended warranties because
> they are pure profit for the stores.

Depends on the item. I wouldn't think of buying a PC without as much
warranty as they sell. I just bought a $4,400 PC, came with a 3 year
basic warranty. For $120 I upgraded for two more years and free
in-home repairs, parts and labor for the five years. I'll let you do
the math to figure out what percentage $120 is of $4,400. I also did
the same with my $3,000 Sony TV, was only $18/yr to tack on 3 more
years to the factory warranty, and that also added full in-home
service, parts and labor. No, I'm not going to buy extra insurance on
inexpensive appliances like toasters, coffee makers, and microwave
ovens, those I treat like light bulbs. And not even for major
appliances like washers, dryers, and fridges... those I can often
repair myself or it's not all that costly to call a local appliance
repair service. But with expensive electronics you can't do repairs,
and even if you do know how, and very few can, anyone other than an
authorized repair person will void what's left on the warranty, for
those kind of items I highly recommend the full monty warranty. I've
never regretted an extended warranty on my PCs... on my last one I went
through a CD ROM, and three 21" monitors, the original and two
replacements. In fact the second replacement monitor arrived just
after I decided to buy the new current PC, so I still have that monitor
in the sealed box it was shipped, still yet unused. I'll probably
never use that monster monitor, can barely carry that thing, no one
will want it, not once they've used the new flat monitors. My desk is
permanently warped from the weight of that thing... just the heat it
threw out negated my AC... my little office was always three degrees
warmer in summer and five degrees warmer in winter than the rest of my
house, I now know with certainty it was that monitor. It was extremely
uncomfortable having that room at 75ºF during winter when the rest of
the house is a comfortable 70ºF.

Just last week while I had gone into town for two hours I came home to
discover there was a power outage, the power was on but I knew because
the clock on my stove and microwave were blinking and were exactly two
hours early. Then I noticed I had no net connection, finally
discovered my Verizon modem had died, it got zapped. Called Verizon
and they Fed-Exed me a new modem (arrived the next day). The modem
only came with a 90 day warranty (expired a year ago) so I had to pay
$80 plus $15 shipping for the new one. The gal on the phone told me I
could buy modem insurance for $2 a month added to my phone bill, was a
no brainer, I grabbed it... never knew that till now. Of course dummy
me had neglected to have the old modem plugged into my battery back up,
the new one is, but still it can get zapped, those things are delicate.
And even though I power down my PC every night that modem is powered
24/7, was advised it's best to leave it on all the time, something
about maintaining the highest speed setting, who knows... the $2/mo
won't ruin my life... and if my modem dies just once in four years
(which seems probable) I'll break even.

Now life ins, that's just plain stupid, for that to kick in I gotta
die, then what do I get...

Sheldon

"Gregory Morrow" > wrote in message
link.net...
<snip>
> I know folks with 30 - year old microwaves, they are big monsters of
> things
> but they are still chugging along. 'Course back then a microwave was a
> major purchase

Sounds like mine. It originally belonged to my grandparents, who had it for
about 10 years. Then they gave it to me when I bought my house. That was
just over 12 years ago. It **IS** a big monster of a thing, takes up 1/3 of
one of my counters, but it works just fine <touch wood>. While I would love
a more compact model that has a turntable and some of the newer bells and
whistles, I am not giving up this MW until it gasps its last.

TammyM

jay wrote:
>> Those stainless woven hoses are bogus. They are a fairly thin rubber hose
> covered with the stainless braid. The look pretty though and give you an
> artificial sense of security. I have had one rupture from freezing in the
> *outhouse* and the rubber popped right through the braid and ran for a few
> days. Turning the water off at the wall is always good when leaving for any
> period of time.

Please... don't be an idiot... you used it where it could freeze!
Could have been solid stainless steel pipe with walls an inch thick and
water freezing inside would burst it like it was a paper soda straw.

They're not bogus, It's possible they'll spring a small leak and drip
for a long time before doing any real damage, most normal people will
notice the drip right away unless they're kinda brain dead. But they
won't burst, not in a heated space.

How can you have an out house with water in an unheated space... you're
lucky to have had that piece of hose, it may have acted as a safety,
and burst before the freeze-up split all your plumbing in dozens of
places... making the water continue to flow saved your plumbing,
flowing water even from a drip can't freeze. If ever you have a house
with plumbing in crawl spaces or other iffy spots and the temperatures
begin to drop to below zero, then rather than raise the house
temperature it's better to crack a hose bib and the inside faucets so
they just drip, so that the water can keep flowing, so long as there is
movement water cannot freeze.... the few gallons of water down the
drain can save mucho bucks in repairs.

I can't imagine you had any water damage in an outhouse and that piece
of hose saved you maybe a thousand dollars worth of damage, maybe a lot
more if you had buried pipe to dig up. I don't know about you, what
kind of idiot has water pipe in an unheated space that can freeze. You
probably usually drain those pipes for winter, you forgot... that
little piece of hose saved you a lot of grief... were it just the
regular plain garden variety rubber kind of hose it would have burst
wide open, a lot more water would have flowed.

Sheldon