Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also more dry
in my experience. How do you keep it moist?


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Tom Del Rosso wrote on 20 Jan 2007 in rec.food.cooking

> Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also
> more dry in my experience. How do you keep it moist?
>
>

How are you cooking it? If cooking uncovered it will dry out. I frequently
chuck picinic rolls (made from pork shoulders and brined to resemble ham)
in a crock pot and cook for about 8-10 hours on high with lid on. I'm not
sure of the exact temp of the crockpot but believe the high setting is
below 300F. The meat is quite tender and NOT dry when I remove it...It is
so tender it falls apart into chunks if you don't use silicon oven mitts to
remove it from the crock. I add no liquids to the crock... nothing other
than the picnic roll and some seasoning.

The same or simillar effect can be reproduced in a regular oven if the
oven temp is 275F-ish and the roast is in a pan that has a good fitting
lid.

Look for pork shoulder braising recipes on the web.
Since braising is the art of slow cooking, perhaps finding some basic
instructions on how to do it might help also.

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 14:58:37 GMT, "Tom Del Rosso"
> wrote:

>Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also more dry
>in my experience. How do you keep it moist?

Keep it covered....completely...and don't peek. You should be using a
braising technique.

braise
[BRAYZ]
A cooking method by which food (usually meat or vegetables) is first
browned in fat, then cooked, tightly covered, in a small amount of
liquid at low heat for a lengthy period of time. The long, slow
cooking develops flavor and tenderizes foods by gently breaking down
their fibers. Braising can be done on top of the range or in the oven.
A tight-fitting lid is very important to prevent the liquid from
evaporating.



The Fine Art of Cooking involves personal choice.
Many preferences, ingredients, and procedures
may not be consistent with what you know to be true.

As with any recipe, you may find your personal
intervention will be necessary. Bon Appetit!

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also more dry
> in my experience. How do you keep it moist?
>
I don't accept the premise. Slow-cooking per se doesn't make anything
drier. Overcooking does. -aem

"aem" > wrote in message
ps.com
> Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> > Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also
> > more dry in my experience. How do you keep it moist?
> >
> I don't accept the premise. Slow-cooking per se doesn't make anything
> drier. Overcooking does. -aem

Also, undercooking a pork shoulder can make it seem dry. If the cologen
hasn't broken down yet, the meat will "taste" dry.

I cook shoulders slowly, uncovered in my smoker. They've never been dry.
Smoke @about 225 'til the internal meat temperature gets to about 190 to
200. This will also work in an oven, but you'd be leaving out a very
importantpart of the flavor. IMO

BOB

I have now done a Luscious Lawson recipe 3 times using a 7/8 Kg shoulder
and they have never turned out dry. They cook slowly for 23 hours with
1/2hr of high eat at start and finish, perhaps it's the crust that seals
in the moisture ?

Steve

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also more dry
> in my experience. How do you keep it moist?
>
>

"Ward Abbott" > wrote in message

>
> Keep it covered....completely...and don't peek. You should be using a
> braising technique.

Thanks Ward and all responders.

I covered with a foil tent, because I didn't have anything big enough, but
it isn't a tight fit. I wonder how a pressure cooker would do.


> braise
> [BRAYZ]
> A cooking method by which food (usually meat or vegetables) is first
> browned in fat, then cooked, tightly covered, in a small amount of
> liquid at low heat for a lengthy period of time. The long, slow
> cooking develops flavor and tenderizes foods by gently breaking down
> their fibers. Braising can be done on top of the range or in the oven.
> A tight-fitting lid is very important to prevent the liquid from
> evaporating.

About browning in fat, do you sear these roasts first? If so, in the oven
uncovered, or in a hot pan?


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"Steve Y" > wrote in message
...
>I have now done a Luscious Lawson recipe 3 times using a 7/8 Kg shoulder
>and they have never turned out dry. They cook slowly for 23 hours with
>1/2hr of high eat at start and finish, perhaps it's the crust that seals in
>the moisture ?
>

YES.

"Tom Del Rosso" > wrote in message
...
> Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also more
> dry
> in my experience. How do you keep it moist?
>
>
Keep the lid on, store it with some liquid tightly covered.

Forgot to say that this is cooked uncovered for the 24 Hours

cybercat wrote:
> "Steve Y" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I have now done a Luscious Lawson recipe 3 times using a 7/8 Kg shoulder
>> and they have never turned out dry. They cook slowly for 23 hours with
>> 1/2hr of high eat at start and finish, perhaps it's the crust that seals in
>> the moisture ?
>>
>
> YES.
>
>

Tom Del Rosso wrote on 20 Jan 2007 in rec.food.cooking

> "Ward Abbott" > wrote in message
>
> >
> > Keep it covered....completely...and don't peek. You should be using
> > a braising technique.
>
> Thanks Ward and all responders.
>
> I covered with a foil tent, because I didn't have anything big enough,
> but it isn't a tight fit. I wonder how a pressure cooker would do.
>
>
> > braise
> > [BRAYZ]
> > A cooking method by which food (usually meat or vegetables) is first
> > browned in fat, then cooked, tightly covered, in a small amount of
> > liquid at low heat for a lengthy period of time. The long, slow
> > cooking develops flavor and tenderizes foods by gently breaking down
> > their fibers. Braising can be done on top of the range or in the
> > oven. A tight-fitting lid is very important to prevent the liquid
> > from evaporating.
>
> About browning in fat, do you sear these roasts first? If so, in the
> oven uncovered, or in a hot pan?
>
>

Well, browning the meat on all sides does improve the flavour...but you
don't need to. Get a tight fitting foil covering or lid...the idea is to
stop moisture or water vapour leaving the pan. Then worry about improving
flavor. The vapour helps to cook the meat so keep it in at all costs.

"Tom Del Rosso" > wrote in message
...
> Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also more dry
> in my experience. How do you keep it moist?

When I do pork shoulder (smoked, on the grill) I first do a dry rub, overnight. When
the smoke box is perfect and the temperature just right, I put it on the grill,
unwrapped. When it's caramelized all around, I begin basting it with a apple cider
and spice (usually the same as the rub) combo. For the last hour, I double wrap it in
foil after generously basting with the cider. It's never dry, and always very good.


kimberly

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:18:59 GMT, "Tom Del Rosso"
> wrote:

>About browning in fat, do you sear these roasts first? If so, in the oven
>uncovered, or in a hot pan?

HOT pan. I use the oven vessel to do that...add liquid...usually
beer, cover and put in oven.

Cooking pork? Don't forget six cloves of garlic. That will be all
you need. Salt & pepper when you are finished.

Steve Y wrote:

> I have now done a Luscious Lawson recipe 3 times using a 7/8 Kg
> shoulder and they have never turned out dry. They cook slowly for 23
> hours with 1/2hr of high eat at start and finish, perhaps it's the
> crust that seals in the moisture ?

Please don't top-post.

You don't "seal in moisture" with searing. That's an old chef's tale
that's been pretty thoroughly debunked.



Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

Why not?



"Default User" > wrote in message
...
> Please don't top-post.
>

One time on Usenet, "**~~**~~**" > said:
> "Default User" > wrote in message
> ...

> > Please don't top-post.

> Why not?

Rather than start a long and old argument, just go he

http://www.xs4all.nl/~wijnands/nnq/nquote.html#Q7

--
Jani in WA

"Ward Abbott" > wrote in message

> On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:18:59 GMT, "Tom Del Rosso"
> > wrote:
>
>> About browning in fat, do you sear these roasts first? If so, in
>> the oven uncovered, or in a hot pan?
>
> HOT pan. I use the oven vessel to do that...add liquid...usually
> beer, cover and put in oven.

How do you do your searing? With the vessel uncovered in the oven at high
heat, or on the stove?

Do you leave any fat on one side?


> Cooking pork? Don't forget six cloves of garlic. That will be all
> you need. Salt & pepper when you are finished.

I seasoned before cooking. If a roast is several inches thick doesn't it
take time to get the flavor through?


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"Steve Y" > wrote in message

> I have now done a Luscious Lawson recipe 3 times using a 7/8 Kg
> shoulder and they have never turned out dry. They cook slowly for 23
> hours with 1/2hr of high eat at start and finish, perhaps it's the
> crust that seals in the moisture ?
>
> Steve

Is that recipe on the web?


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Tom Del Rosso wrote on 21 Jan 2007 in rec.food.cooking

> "Ward Abbott" > wrote in message
>
> > On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:18:59 GMT, "Tom Del Rosso"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> About browning in fat, do you sear these roasts first? If so, in
> >> the oven uncovered, or in a hot pan?
> >
> > HOT pan. I use the oven vessel to do that...add liquid...usually
> > beer, cover and put in oven.
>
> How do you do your searing? With the vessel uncovered in the oven at
> high heat, or on the stove?
>
> Do you leave any fat on one side?
>
>
> > Cooking pork? Don't forget six cloves of garlic. That will be
> > all you need. Salt & pepper when you are finished.
>
> I seasoned before cooking. If a roast is several inches thick doesn't
> it take time to get the flavor through?
>
>

A Dutch oven or braising suitable pan is both stovetop and oven
safe...First I turn on the oven while it is coming to temp;I brown the
meat in a little oil on the stovtop. Add whatever I want to add then cover
and into the oven.

Any cooking vessel... say a frypan that is oven safe will do; as long as
it has a tight fiting lid.

Here's a link to a Google Search for it: http://tinyurl.com/ywb4yv

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> "Steve Y" > wrote in message
>
>> I have now done a Luscious Lawson recipe 3 times using a 7/8 Kg
>> shoulder and they have never turned out dry. They cook slowly for 23
>> hours with 1/2hr of high eat at start and finish, perhaps it's the
>> crust that seals in the moisture ?
>>
>> Steve
>
> Is that recipe on the web?
>
>

Here's a link to a Google Search for it: http://tinyurl.com/ywb4yv

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also more dry
> in my experience. How do you keep it moist?

Obviously you have zero experience because even the lowest culinary IQ
RFC pinhead knows (or should know) that those two cuts are as different
as different can be... ham essentially has all its fat concentrated on
its exterior with a very lean interior while shoulder has some fat on
it's exterior but has a great deal of its fat dispersed about its
interior... very different cooking techniques are employed for each.
And I have no idea what you mean by the very innocuous term
"slow-cooking"... unless you mean in a slow cooker (crock pot) slow is
relatively meaningless, how slow you tawkin' and cooking how?

Pork shoulder braises and BBQs well but doesn't do well dry roasted,
and I definitely wouldn't braise or BBQ a ham... only dry roasting does
ham justice. Probably the best method for preparing flavorful, juicy,
and tender pork shoulder is to use it for making sausage.

Sheldon

Steve Y wrote:
> Here's a link to a Google Search for it: http://tinyurl.com/ywb4yv
>
> Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> > "Steve Y" > wrote in message
> >
> >> I have now done a Luscious Lawson recipe 3 times using a 7/8 Kg
> >> shoulder and they have never turned out dry. They cook slowly for 23
> >> hours with 1/2hr of high eat at start and finish, perhaps it's the
> >> crust that seals in the moisture ?
> >>
> >> Steve
> >
> > Is that recipe on the web?
> >
> >
>
> Here's a link to a Google Search for it: http://tinyurl.com/ywb4yv

That's just some thieving guinea's version of the traditional Puerto
Rican recipe for "Pernil".

http://www.elboricua.com/recipes.html

Sheldon

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also more dry
> in my experience. How do you keep it moist?
>
>
> --
>
> Reply in group, but if emailing add another
> zero, and remove the last word.

Low and slow! A typical BBQ temp for pork shoulder (butt) is between
180-185F. Anything higher could dry out the meat. Don't rush it!

LB
Seattle

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> > Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also more
dry
> > in my experience. How do you keep it moist?
>
> Obviously you have zero experience because even the lowest culinary IQ
> RFC pinhead knows (or should know)

Sigh..........once again, one too many xperts.

tom moroon wrote:
> "Sheldon" wrote
> > Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> > > Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also more
> dry
> > > in my experience. How do you keep it moist?
> >
> > Obviously you have zero experience because even the lowest culinary IQ
> > RFC pinhead knows (or should know)
>
> Sigh..........once again, one too many xperts.

Proves you don't know yer ass (ham) from yer elbow (shoulder),
figuratively AND literally... only real pig you know is the one you
stole to poke... ya heard of Pig inna Poke, well meet Tom Pokin' his
Mamma!

http://www.mothergoose.com/PopGander/Baum18.htm

Ahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .

Sheldon

"tom" > wrote in message
ink.net
> "Sheldon" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>
>> Obviously you have zero experience because even the lowest culinary
>> IQ RFC pinhead knows (or should know)
>
> Sigh..........once again, one too many xperts.

Yeah, I disregarded it completely, and its post too.


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Agreed that it looks similar and probably tastes just as nice but spices
and cooking times are different. LL cites Italian origins for the
recipe, I'm not that bothered, I just like the result !
>
> That's just some thieving guinea's version of the traditional Puerto
> Rican recipe for "Pernil".
>
> http://www.elboricua.com/recipes.html
>
> Sheldon
>

Agreed that it looks similar and probably tastes just as nice but spices
and cooking times are different. LL cites Italian origins for the
recipe, I'm not that bothered, I just like the result !

aem wrote:
> Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> > Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also more dry
> > in my experience. How do you keep it moist?
> >
> I don't accept the premise. Slow-cooking per se doesn't make anything
> drier. Overcooking does. -aem

I would have guessed that loss of moisture is what makes things drier.
I guess I'm naive like that.

-bwg

LinkBoi wrote:
> Tom Del Rosso wrote:
>> Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also
>> more dry in my experience. How do you keep it moist?

> Low and slow! A typical BBQ temp for pork shoulder (butt) is between
> 180-185F. Anything higher could dry out the meat. Don't rush it!

A typical temp at which you bbq a pork shoulder is 225 - 275F. The typical
internal temp of the meat when it is pulled from the pit is about 190F

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Dave Bugg wrote:
> LinkBoi wrote:
> > Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> >> Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also
> >> more dry in my experience. How do you keep it moist?
>
> > Low and slow! A typical BBQ temp for pork shoulder (butt) is between
> > 180-185F. Anything higher could dry out the meat. Don't rush it!
>
> A typical temp at which you bbq a pork shoulder is 225 - 275F. The typical
> internal temp of the meat when it is pulled from the pit is about 190F
>
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com

Hey Dave, I used to hang around over at the bbq newsgroup - I remember
you were starting a bbq restaurant awhile back too. How's that going?

LB aka jkdrummer aka JaKe
Seattle

"Tom Del Rosso" > wrote in
:

> Slow-cooking a ham or pork shoulder makes it more tender, but also
> more dry in my experience. How do you keep it moist?

Oven or crock-pot. Oven it should be tightly covered. Crock-pot should be
moist!


--

Charles
The significant problems we face cannot be solved
at the same level of thinking we were at when we
created them. Albert Einstein