In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> Emma Thackery > wrote:
>
> > Julia Altshuler > wrote:
>
> >> When Lappe came out with _Diet For A Small Planet_, she made it sound
> >> like exact protein combining was necessary or deficiencies would result.
> >> In later editions of the book, she updated her information. If you're
> >> getting rice and beans over the course of a week, you're getting
> >> complementary proteins. They don't have to be eaten at the same meal.
>
> >I'm so glad you covered this because most of the (casual) things I've
> >read lately say that the combo directive is a total myth based on no
> >fact whatsoever.
>
> It is by no means a myth that you need a sufficient intake of
> essential amino acids to avoid diseases like pellagra.
>
> >The general impression I get from my informal readings
> >is that as long as otherwise healthy people eat a very diverse diet
> >(whether vegetarian or not), we won't have much to worry about.
>
> Yes, but this is true because a diverse vegetarian diet has the
> effect of combining various protein sources into complete protein.

What I was (sloppily) commenting on was the mistaken notion that the
exact combination of proteins must be taken in at the same *meal*. Same
day appears to be adequate. And also, many people seem to assume that a
vegetarian diet has no sources of complete proteins and, of course, that
is incorrect. There are significant non-meat sources of complete
proteins.

Emma

Emma Thackery > wrote:

> (Steve Pope) wrote:

>> Emma Thackery > wrote:

>>> I'm so glad you covered this because most of the (casual)
>>> things I've read lately say that the combo directive is a total
>>> myth based on no fact whatsoever.

>> It is by no means a myth that you need a sufficient intake of
>> essential amino acids to avoid diseases like pellagra.

>> >The general impression I get from my informal readings
>> >is that as long as otherwise healthy people eat a very diverse diet
>> >(whether vegetarian or not), we won't have much to worry about.
>>
>> Yes, but this is true because a diverse vegetarian diet has the
>> effect of combining various protein sources into complete protein.

> What I was (sloppily) commenting on was the mistaken notion
> that the exact combination of proteins must be taken in at the
> same *meal*. Same day appears to be adequate.

Yes, but if the goal is to eat complete protein over the course
of a day, unless you are a family group that always eats all
of its meals together, it is perhaps most practical to balance
protein at each meal.

Example: suppose I drop in for lunch at one vegetarian household,
and they're eating legumes for lunch because they're planning on
grains for dinner. Then I have dinner with another household and
they're having legumes for dinner because they already had grains
for lunch. I end up not eating complete protein that day.
Balancing protein for each meal avoids this problem.

Steve

In article >,
says...
> What I was (sloppily) commenting on was the mistaken notion that the
> exact combination of proteins must be taken in at the same *meal*. Same
> day appears to be adequate. And also, many people seem to assume that a
> vegetarian diet has no sources of complete proteins and, of course, that
> is incorrect. There are significant non-meat sources of complete
> proteins.
>

As far as I know, that is not true. No single vegetable source has
complete protein. If you have legitimate information to the contrary,
I'd like to know about it.


--
Peter Aitken

Peter A > wrote:

>As far as I know, that is not true. No single vegetable source has
>complete protein. If you have legitimate information to the contrary,
>I'd like to know about it.

Soy protein is complete, assuming you are using the World Health
Organization's definition of "complete". This is well known,
and efforts you may have seen to debunk this are rubbish.

Quinoa is also complete, but just barely. There are probably many
other complete single vegetable proteins but they are not
high-protein vegetables and so this aspect is not nutritionally
significant.

Steve

In article >, says...
> >As far as I know, that is not true. No single vegetable source has
> >complete protein. If you have legitimate information to the contrary,
> >I'd like to know about it.
>
> Soy protein is complete, assuming you are using the World Health
> Organization's definition of "complete". This is well known,
> and efforts you may have seen to debunk this are rubbish.
>
> Quinoa is also complete, but just barely. There are probably many
> other complete single vegetable proteins but they are not
> high-protein vegetables and so this aspect is not nutritionally
> significant.
>
> Steve
>

Interesting, thanks. I eat a good amount of soy, so I guess this is a
good thing!

--
Peter Aitken

In article >,
Peter A > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> > What I was (sloppily) commenting on was the mistaken notion that the
> > exact combination of proteins must be taken in at the same *meal*. Same
> > day appears to be adequate. And also, many people seem to assume that a
> > vegetarian diet has no sources of complete proteins and, of course, that
> > is incorrect. There are significant non-meat sources of complete
> > proteins.
>
> As far as I know, that is not true. No single vegetable source has
> complete protein.

Soy is a well-established source of all amino acids in abundance.
Actually most (not all) vegetables also have all the 20 or so aminos as
well--- just not enough of the essential ones.

> ... If you have legitimate information to the contrary,
> I'd like to know about it.

First of all, I did not say "vegetable source"; I said "non-meat source"
and the two are not the same. Milk, cheese, eggs, quinoa, soy, whey,
yogurt, ice cream, and spirulina are all non-meat sources of complete
protein. Buckwheat and amaranth are very close to complete. Some
vegetarians also eat fish which is also a source of complete protein in
abundance. This is information that has been widely available for many
years now.

In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> Emma Thackery > wrote:
>
> > (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
> >> Emma Thackery > wrote:
>
> >>> I'm so glad you covered this because most of the (casual)
> >>> things I've read lately say that the combo directive is a total
> >>> myth based on no fact whatsoever.
>
> >> It is by no means a myth that you need a sufficient intake of
> >> essential amino acids to avoid diseases like pellagra.
>
> >> >The general impression I get from my informal readings
> >> >is that as long as otherwise healthy people eat a very diverse diet
> >> >(whether vegetarian or not), we won't have much to worry about.
> >>
> >> Yes, but this is true because a diverse vegetarian diet has the
> >> effect of combining various protein sources into complete protein.
>
> > What I was (sloppily) commenting on was the mistaken notion
> > that the exact combination of proteins must be taken in at the
> > same *meal*. Same day appears to be adequate.
>
> Yes, but if the goal is to eat complete protein over the course
> of a day, unless you are a family group that always eats all
> of its meals together, it is perhaps most practical to balance
> protein at each meal.
>
> Example: suppose I drop in for lunch at one vegetarian household,
> and they're eating legumes for lunch because they're planning on
> grains for dinner. Then I have dinner with another household and
> they're having legumes for dinner because they already had grains
> for lunch. I end up not eating complete protein that day.
> Balancing protein for each meal avoids this problem.
>
> Steve

It's your responsibility to plan your meals accordingly. If you find it
easier to balance proteins at each meal, that is your choice. But it is
only necessary to balance over the course of the day.

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, says...
>> >As far as I know, that is not true. No single vegetable source has
>> >complete protein. If you have legitimate information to the contrary,
>> >I'd like to know about it.
>>
>> Soy protein is complete, assuming you are using the World Health
>> Organization's definition of "complete". This is well known,
>> and efforts you may have seen to debunk this are rubbish.
>>
>> Quinoa is also complete, but just barely. There are probably many
>> other complete single vegetable proteins but they are not
>> high-protein vegetables and so this aspect is not nutritionally
>> significant.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> Interesting, thanks. I eat a good amount of soy, so I guess this is a
> good thing!
>

Except for the high levels of estrogen in soy ...

Steve Pope wrote:

> It is by no means a myth that you need a sufficient intake of
> essential amino acids to avoid diseases like pellagra.


Thanks for that information. Until a second ago when I checked on it, I
would have associated pellagra with a vitamin B3 deficiency only, and
not with an amino acid deficiency as well.


When reading the Wikipedia information on pellagra, I came across this:
"There has been speculation that the legend of vampires may have been
furthered in the 1700s during pellagra outbreaks in Europe." Ooh, I
love that sort of stuff. The connection between ergot and witchcraft is
another example. Love it.


--Lia

Steve Pope wrote:

> Yes, but if the goal is to eat complete protein over the course
> of a day, unless you are a family group that always eats all
> of its meals together, it is perhaps most practical to balance
> protein at each meal.


There's an even more practical reason: culinary delight. Beans with
tomato paste, cumin and chili powder are delicious, but beans with
tomato paste, cumin, chili powder and fresh corn or polenta are even
better. Lentil soup with dill, tarragon and garlic is good, but the
same soup with a little barley thrown in is better. Nuts are a natural
in granola. Tahini is sesame seeds plus chickpeas, a terrific
combination. Yogurt is great with vegetables. Etc.


--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
. ..
> Steve Pope wrote:
>
>> It is by no means a myth that you need a sufficient intake of
>> essential amino acids to avoid diseases like pellagra.
>
>
> Thanks for that information. Until a second ago when I checked on it, I
> would have associated pellagra with a vitamin B3 deficiency only, and not
> with an amino acid deficiency as well.
>
>
> When reading the Wikipedia information on pellagra, I came across this:
> "There has been speculation that the legend of vampires may have been
> furthered in the 1700s during pellagra outbreaks in Europe." Ooh, I love
> that sort of stuff. The connection between ergot and witchcraft is
> another example. Love it.
>
>

Some say it was the ergot in the bread mold of 1350-1500 Italy that caused
the outburst of creative innovation in art that some call the "Renaissance."

cybercat > wrote:

>"Peter A" > wrote in message

>> In article >, says

>>> Soy protein is complete, assuming you are using the World Health
>>> Organization's definition of "complete". This is well known,
>>> and efforts you may have seen to debunk this are rubbish.

>>> Quinoa is also complete, but just barely. There are probably many
>>> other complete single vegetable proteins but they are not
>>> high-protein vegetables and so this aspect is not nutritionally
>>> significant.

>> Interesting, thanks. I eat a good amount of soy, so I guess this is a
>> good thing!

>Except for the high levels of estrogen in soy ...

Then go for hemp protein. It's also complete (according to
Wikipedia and to the people who push the stuff...)

Steve
>

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> There's an even more practical reason: culinary delight. Beans with
> tomato paste, cumin and chili powder are delicious, but beans with
> tomato paste, cumin, chili powder and fresh corn or polenta are even
> better. Lentil soup with dill, tarragon and garlic is good, but the
> same soup with a little barley thrown in is better. Nuts are a natural
> in granola. Tahini is sesame seeds plus chickpeas, a terrific
> combination. Yogurt is great with vegetables. Etc.


I just caught my mistake, and you guys aren't on your toes. That should
read hummous is sesame tahini plus chickpeas.


--Lia

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> cybercat > wrote:
>
>>"Julia Altshuler" > wrote:
>
>>> When Lappe came out with _Diet For A Small Planet_, she made it sound
>>> like
>>> exact protein combining was necessary or deficiencies would result. In
>>> later editions of the book, she updated her information. If you're
>>> getting rice and beans over the course of a week, you're getting
>>> complementary proteins. They don't have to be eaten at the same meal.
>
>>Yes. I'm frequently amazed by the ignorance people exhibit regarding basic
>>nutrition.
>
> Does one of you have a reference for the "one week" figure cited
> above? That seems rather a long time. The complementary amino
> acids need to be in the liver at the same time for protein synthesis
> to occur. And my understanding is that the liver doesn't really store
> amino acids or proteins in the same way that it stores glucose/glycogen.
>
> Steve
>>of nutrition studies and their own need to oversimplify to keep it easy,
>>think, "Fat Bad. Meat Bad. Vegetables Good."
>>
>>It's just not that simple.
>>
>>As for the OP, the dish he gave as an example had no rice, no beans,
>>no dairy, and I saw nothing in his post to suggest that he eats those
>>things.
>>Or that he doesn't, as a matter of fact.
>>
>>Hell, maybe he will respond, we'll see what his take on it is. heh
>>>Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

these conversations remind me of here in the u.k. some years, ago doctors
discovered an old lady who had lived for the last ten years or so, on
nothing but rice pudding !

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
>> There's an even more practical reason: culinary delight. Beans with
>> tomato paste, cumin and chili powder are delicious, but beans with
>> tomato paste, cumin, chili powder and fresh corn or polenta are even
>> better. Lentil soup with dill, tarragon and garlic is good, but the
>> same soup with a little barley thrown in is better. Nuts are a
>> natural in granola. Tahini is sesame seeds plus chickpeas, a terrific
>> combination. Yogurt is great with vegetables. Etc.
>
>
>
> I just caught my mistake, and you guys aren't on your toes. That should
> read hummous is sesame tahini plus chickpeas.
>
>
> --Lia

I noticed it but just didn't say anything. Don't worry,
next time I'll be all over you. ;-)

Kate

--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?