Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
alive.

xyz > wrote:
>Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
>everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
>dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
>alive.

(Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar. Soy sauce.
Horseradish. There's probably more. Vinegar is just one of
the flavors most people are looking for when dressing their
dinner.

--Blair
"Salt. Pepper. Beak. Etc."

On 9 Oct 2003 13:15:24 -0700, (xyz) wrote:

>Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
>everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
>dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
>alive.

A "condiment" is a spicy or savory compliment to foods. You can make
salad dressing and mayonnaise with lemon juice instead of vinegar, if
that pleases you. But most relishes, chutneys, and savory sauces
contain vinegar. For a reason, one assumes. I don't think there's any
chance of becoming "pickled" by a pickle (or smoked from eating lox,
or fried by a visit to KFC). Acidic ingredients (vinegar, wine,
citrus) are rather too common to avoid.

Blair P. Houghton > writes:

>xyz > wrote:
>>Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
>>everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
>>dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
>>alive.

Depends on your definition of condiment... my favorite condiment is a savory
celery stick, stuck in a particular red vodka potable.... alchohol is an
excellent preservative, hic.

>(Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar.

Purely opinion ("good"), NOT fact.

>Soy sauce.
>Horseradish.

Prepared horseradish contains vinegar.

There are many condiments that are *preserved* with just salt, 'bud', rather
than the combination of salt and vinegar, but typically both brine and acid is
used (sometimes the acid is citrus- ascorbic acid) or there would need to be
more salt than is palatable in order to preserve so rinsing away a goodly
portion of the salt would be necessary before use. Some condiments are used
fresh; lemon/lime, or dried; cayenne. Grated hard cheese is indeed a
condiment... as are many dried herbs, fresh herbs too. Even potato chips and
pretzels can qualify as condiments. A kosher pickle contains no vinegar...
caviar neither. There are literally thousands of examples, I wont even go into
those condimants preserved with just sugar, even sugar itself, honey chile


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

Frogleg > wrote in message >. ..
> On 9 Oct 2003 13:15:24 -0700, (xyz) wrote:
>
> >Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
> >everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
> >dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
> >alive.
>
> A "condiment" is a spicy or savory compliment to foods. You can make
> salad dressing and mayonnaise with lemon juice instead of vinegar, if
> that pleases you. But most relishes, chutneys, and savory sauces
> contain vinegar. For a reason, one assumes. I don't think there's any
> chance of becoming "pickled" by a pickle (or smoked from eating lox,
> or fried by a visit to KFC). Acidic ingredients (vinegar, wine,
> citrus) are rather too common to avoid.

Sometimes tho', vinigar is _not_ a flavor I want.... so you just have
to read the bottles, or learn to make your own stuff. Lemon/lime based
mayonnaise is not that hard to make, and Hellman's now makes a Lime
based dressing called "mayonnaisa" with an "a" instead of an "e" on
the end and it is divine! It tastes just like the citrus based mayo
that mom taught me to make. :-)

For ranch dressing, I just buy a container of sour cream and add a
package of Hidden Valley Ranch dressing mix! :-)

Ranch is sort of a staple in Texas <G>

C.

(Carnivore269) wrote in
om:

> Hellman's now makes a Lime
> based dressing called "mayonnaisa" with an "a" instead of an "e" on
> the end and it is divine! It tastes just like the citrus based mayo
> that mom taught me to make. :-)

Is that the stuff with the orange lid, or something different? The one I
buy still uses vinegar as its prime ingredient, but uses lime instead of
lemon further down the list.

ScratchMonkey > wrote in message >. ..
> (Carnivore269) wrote in
> om:
>
> > Hellman's now makes a Lime
> > based dressing called "mayonnaisa" with an "a" instead of an "e" on
> > the end and it is divine! It tastes just like the citrus based mayo
> > that mom taught me to make. :-)
>
> Is that the stuff with the orange lid, or something different? The one I
> buy still uses vinegar as its prime ingredient, but uses lime instead of
> lemon further down the list.

I don't think so...
The one I get has NO vinegar in it. :-)

If you can't find it, I'd be delighted to share the
recipe/instructions for making your own citrus based mayonnaise. It
can be made in any good blender in about 20 minutes with a good
quality veggie oil.

Let me know?

C.

On 10 Oct 2003 09:57:22 -0700, (Carnivore269)
wrote:

>Frogleg > wrote
>> On 9 Oct 2003 13:15:24 -0700, (xyz) wrote:
>>
>> >Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
>> >everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
>> >dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
>> >alive.
>>
>> A "condiment" is a spicy or savory compliment to foods. You can make
>> salad dressing and mayonnaise with lemon juice instead of vinegar, if
>> that pleases you. But most relishes, chutneys, and savory sauces
>> contain vinegar. For a reason, one assumes. I don't think there's any
>> chance of becoming "pickled" by a pickle (or smoked from eating lox,
>> or fried by a visit to KFC). Acidic ingredients (vinegar, wine,
>> citrus) are rather too common to avoid.
>
>Sometimes tho', vinigar is _not_ a flavor I want.... so you just have
>to read the bottles, or learn to make your own stuff.

I mis-spoke/mis-wrote "most...contain vinegar." I should have said
most contain acidic ingredients -- vinegar, citrus, etc. I have no
idea of the relative acidity of lemon juice as opposed to vinegar
(Barb?), but if the OP didn't want to be pickled from the inside,
he/she'd do well to stay away from lemonade, too. :-)

What *does* the "5% acidity" label on a bottle of kitchen vinegar mean
anyhow? 5% the strength of pure hydrochloric acid?

Frogleg > wrote in message >. ..
> On 10 Oct 2003 09:57:22 -0700, (Carnivore269)
> wrote:
>
> >Frogleg > wrote
> >> On 9 Oct 2003 13:15:24 -0700, (xyz) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
> >> >everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
> >> >dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
> >> >alive.
> >>
> >> A "condiment" is a spicy or savory compliment to foods. You can make
> >> salad dressing and mayonnaise with lemon juice instead of vinegar, if
> >> that pleases you. But most relishes, chutneys, and savory sauces
> >> contain vinegar. For a reason, one assumes. I don't think there's any
> >> chance of becoming "pickled" by a pickle (or smoked from eating lox,
> >> or fried by a visit to KFC). Acidic ingredients (vinegar, wine,
> >> citrus) are rather too common to avoid.
> >
> >Sometimes tho', vinigar is _not_ a flavor I want.... so you just have
> >to read the bottles, or learn to make your own stuff.
>
> I mis-spoke/mis-wrote "most...contain vinegar." I should have said
> most contain acidic ingredients -- vinegar, citrus, etc. I have no
> idea of the relative acidity of lemon juice as opposed to vinegar
> (Barb?), but if the OP didn't want to be pickled from the inside,
> he/she'd do well to stay away from lemonade, too. :-)
>
> What *does* the "5% acidity" label on a bottle of kitchen vinegar mean
> anyhow? 5% the strength of pure hydrochloric acid?

I do kinda wonder about the OP's concern for being "pickled". <G>
The human body is perfectly capable of handling acidic ingredients.
:-)
I just thought that I'd toss my favorite dressing out there for
review!

I've been in to meat salads lately. :-d

Some mornings when I have errands to run, I don't always have time to
cook so I'll hit HEB for their lemon pepper rotissery chickens! They
are sooooo good, but neither dad nor I like the breast meat much
straight as breast meat, no matter how it is cooked, tends to be a tad
bit dry... which is why I usually just use boneless/skinless thighs
for stir fry. But, I take the breast meat from the rotissery chickens
and make chicken salad out of it using dill relish, a bit more lemon
pepper, garlic powder, minced green onion, more dill relish and
MAYONAISA!!! :-)
The lime flavor in that dressing is OH so good in meat salads. I serve
that over a bed of baby spinach garnished on the side with fresh
avocado and tomatoe.

C.

Frogleg wrote:
>
> What *does* the "5% acidity" label on a bottle of kitchen
> vinegar mean anyhow? 5% the strength of pure hydrochloric
> acid?

It is the strength of 5% acetic acid. Pure white vinegar is basically acetic
acid and water. With the other versions there are numerous other compounds
that give them their distinctive character.

More info than you may really want to know at:
http://www.foodsubs.com/Vinegars.html

--
Pete Romfh, Telecom Geek & Amateur Gourmet.
promfh at Texas dot net

In article >, Frogleg
> wrote:

> On 10 Oct 2003 09:57:22 -0700, (Carnivore269)
> wrote:
>
> >Frogleg > wrote
> >> On 9 Oct 2003 13:15:24 -0700, (xyz) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
> >> >everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
> >> >dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
> >> >alive.
> >>
> >> A "condiment" is a spicy or savory compliment to foods. You can make
> >> salad dressing and mayonnaise with lemon juice instead of vinegar, if
> >> that pleases you. But most relishes, chutneys, and savory sauces
> >> contain vinegar. For a reason, one assumes. I don't think there's any
> >> chance of becoming "pickled" by a pickle (or smoked from eating lox,
> >> or fried by a visit to KFC). Acidic ingredients (vinegar, wine,
> >> citrus) are rather too common to avoid.
> >
> >Sometimes tho', vinigar is _not_ a flavor I want.... so you just have
> >to read the bottles, or learn to make your own stuff.
>
> I mis-spoke/mis-wrote "most...contain vinegar." I should have said
> most contain acidic ingredients -- vinegar, citrus, etc. I have no
> idea of the relative acidity of lemon juice as opposed to vinegar
> (Barb?), but if the OP didn't want to be pickled from the inside,
> he/she'd do well to stay away from lemonade, too. :-)
>
> What *does* the "5% acidity" label on a bottle of kitchen vinegar mean
> anyhow? 5% the strength of pure hydrochloric acid?

Based on info regarding canning tomatoes, measure for measure, lemon
juice is more acidic than vinegar (the recommendation is to use 2 tbsp
lemon juice per quart or 4 tbsp of 5% acidity vinegar, or 1/2 tsp of
citric acid granules/powder). I'd never use vinegar for tomatoes --
that much will affect the flavor. And I'm not nuts about lemon juice,
either. I'm a happy user of citric acid when I need to acidify
something I'm canning.

That said, I've got a conserve on the stove right now that to which I've
added red wine vinegar. Hoo-hoo-hoo, this stuff is so good!
--
-Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-10-03; check the PickleHats tab)

In article >, Blair P.
Houghton > wrote:
(snip)
> (Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar.

If you're canning it, though, Blair, the tested and blessed recipes now
have some vinegar to guarantee a low enough pH level for safe waterbath
processing. Bob (zxcvbob) has made some and says it's not bad and
better than he expected. If I were going to can it, I'd use the vinegar
and perhaps add a **little** baking soda at serving time to de-acidify
it and make it not so tangy.
--
-Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-10-03; check the PickleHats tab)

"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Blair P.
> Houghton > wrote:
> (snip)
> > (Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar.
>
> If you're canning it, though, Blair, the tested and blessed recipes now
> have some vinegar to guarantee a low enough pH level for safe waterbath
> processing. Bob (zxcvbob) has made some and says it's not bad and
> better than he expected. If I were going to can it, I'd use the vinegar
> and perhaps add a **little** baking soda at serving time to de-acidify
> it and make it not so tangy.
> --
> -Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-10-03; check the PickleHats tab)


I think if you want to skip the vinegar, freeze the salsa. Amen to vinegar
for canning (like I'm gonna argue with Mrs Gedney). How would lime juice
stack up though?

Jack pH

In article > , "Jack
Schidt®" > wrote:

> "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, Blair P.
> > Houghton > wrote:
> > (snip)
> > > (Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar.
> >
> > If you're canning it, though, Blair, the tested and blessed recipes now
> > have some vinegar to guarantee a low enough pH level for safe waterbath
> > processing. Bob (zxcvbob) has made some and says it's not bad and
> > better than he expected. If I were going to can it, I'd use the
> > vinegar
> > and perhaps add a **little** baking soda at serving time to
> > de-acidify
> > it and make it not so tangy.
> > --
> > -Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-10-03; check the PickleHats
> > tab)
>
>
> I think if you want to skip the vinegar, freeze the salsa. Amen to
> vinegar
> for canning (like I'm gonna argue with Mrs Gedney). How would lime juice
> stack up though?
>
> Jack pH

Good question. Lately I've been seeing conflicting info about fresh vs.
bottled lemon juices. USDA stuff specifies bottled for its uniform acid
level; a Sure€Jell leaflet I have consistently states fresh lemon juice.
I suspect that fresh probably has better flavor but the USDA is always
going to be conservative and err on the side of consistency and
standardization. Lime juice? As far as acidity, I don't know the
particulars. I use it in my Mango-Strawberry Jam with Kiwifruit because
I don't like the flavor that lemon juice adds. (That recipe, FWIW, also
uses citric acid -- long story skipped.)

Here's an excerpt from the U of NDak Extension Divn about making and
preserving salsa (paragraph breaks mine):

"Acid ingredients in canned salsa help preserve it. Additional acid --
bottled lemon juice, lime juice or vinegar -- is needed when canning
tomatoes because the natural acidity of tomatoes may be too low.
Low-acid ingredients in salsa, such as peppers and onions, also affect
the overall acidity level. Vinegar should be at least 5 percent acid.

You can substitute lemon or lime juice in a recipe calling for vinegar,
but do not substitute vinegar in a recipe calling for lemon or lime
juice.

Lemon or lime juice is more acidic than vinegar. Freshly squeezed lemon
or lime juice may be used in fresh salsa recipes but is not recommended
for use in canning recipes. "
--
-Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-10-03; check the PickleHats tab)

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:27:09 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>Blair P. Houghton > wrote:
>(snip)
>> (Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar.
>
>If you're canning it, though, Blair, the tested and blessed recipes now
>have some vinegar to guarantee a low enough pH level for safe waterbath
>processing. Bob (zxcvbob) has made some and says it's not bad and
>better than he expected. If I were going to can it, I'd use the vinegar
>and perhaps add a **little** baking soda at serving time to de-acidify
>it and make it not so tangy.

I make my salsa (not canned) with fancy-schmancy red wine vinegar in
place of lime juice because I like the flavor. Was it you, Barb, who
confessed to drinking the 'juice' at the bottom of the bowl like I do?
Ummm.

In article >, Frogleg
> wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 18:27:09 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:
>
> >Blair P. Houghton > wrote:
> >(snip)
> >> (Most good) Salsa shouldn't contain vinegar.
> >
> >If you're canning it, though, Blair, the tested and blessed recipes now
> >have some vinegar to guarantee a low enough pH level for safe waterbath
> >processing. Bob (zxcvbob) has made some and says it's not bad and
> >better than he expected. If I were going to can it, I'd use the vinegar
> >and perhaps add a **little** baking soda at serving time to de-acidify
> >it and make it not so tangy.
>
> I make my salsa (not canned) with fancy-schmancy red wine vinegar in
> place of lime juice because I like the flavor. Was it you, Barb, who
> confessed to drinking the 'juice' at the bottom of the bowl like I do?
> Ummm.

Never! How uncouth! Um, have you finished scooping the stuff outta
that bowl yet? Why'ncha pass it over here for a sec.
--
-Barb (www.jamlady.eboard.com updated 10-10-03; check the PickleHats tab)

Mayonnaise doesn't contain vinegar.

And why don't you want to consume vinegar?
"xyz" > wrote in message
om...
> Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
> everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
> dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
> alive.

Frogleg > wrote:

> What *does* the "5% acidity" label on a bottle of kitchen vinegar mean
> anyhow? 5% the strength of pure hydrochloric acid?

Acetic acid. ;-)

In Germany you can buy a product called "vinegar essence" which is
something like 20% acetic acid. Some people water it down and use it for
salad dressings. Others clean the kitchen floor with it

>
> > "xyz" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
> > > everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
> > > dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
> > > alive.
>

Go ahead and eat all the delcious things with vinegar in them. You will not be "pickled". I
promise.
blacksalt

"texpat" > wrote in message >. ..

> "xyz" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
> > everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
> > dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
> > alive.
> Mayonnaise doesn't contain vinegar.
>
> And why don't you want to consume vinegar?

I'm not the op, but yes, mayonnaise _does_ contain vinegar when made
by Kraft and Hellman's. Read the labels. ;-) My home made stuff never
did tho'. We use lime or lemon juice.

I don't know why they don't want to consume vinegar. It's SO good on
fish,
especially Balsamic! ;-d

C.

>I don't know why they don't want to consume vinegar. It's SO good on
>fish,
>especially Balsamic! ;-d
>
>C.

No way, it has to be malt vinegar! Well, at least with fish & chips it does!

john

"John Misrahi" > wrote in message >...
> >I don't know why they don't want to consume vinegar. It's SO good on
> >fish,
> >especially Balsamic! ;-d
> >
> >C.
>
> No way, it has to be malt vinegar! Well, at least with fish & chips it does!
>
> john

True... at least on _fried_ fish. :-)
I actually prefer lemon and dill on baked fish!

I fry my fish with *spiced* white cornmeal. Never plain!
I tasted some fried catfish the other day made with straight cornmeal.
Bleah! It was SO bland! I add lemon pepper, garlic and onion powder
to my cornmeal prior to dredging, then fry in extra virgin olive oil.
Sometimes additional herbs depending on my mood.

C.

"John Misrahi" > wrote in message >...
> >I don't know why they don't want to consume vinegar. It's SO good on
> >fish,
> >especially Balsamic! ;-d
> >
> >C.
>
> No way, it has to be malt vinegar! Well, at least with fish & chips it does!
>
> john

True... at least on _fried_ fish. :-)
I actually prefer lemon and dill on baked fish!

I fry my fish with *spiced* white cornmeal. Never plain!
I tasted some fried catfish the other day made with straight cornmeal.
Bleah! It was SO bland! I add lemon pepper, garlic and onion powder
to my cornmeal prior to dredging, then fry in extra virgin olive oil.
Sometimes additional herbs depending on my mood.

C.

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:49:54 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>Frogleg > wrote:

>> I make my salsa (not canned) with fancy-schmancy red wine vinegar in
>> place of lime juice because I like the flavor. Was it you, Barb, who
>> confessed to drinking the 'juice' at the bottom of the bowl like I do?
>> Ummm.
>
>Never! How uncouth! Um, have you finished scooping the stuff outta
>that bowl yet? Why'ncha pass it over here for a sec.

Sorry. Have to clear the table and get the bowl into the kitchen right
now! No, don't get up to help. You just sit right there. :-)

"texpat" > wrote in message >. ..
> Mayonnaise doesn't contain vinegar.
>
> And why don't you want to consume vinegar?
For me, it has an excito-toxic effect. I take it all you vinegar
lovers use MSG (monosodium glutamate) with abandon, as well!? Or is
the Chinese Restaurant Syndrome a fiction?
> "xyz" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Are there any condiments that aren't made with vinegar? It seems like
> > everything I look at contains vinegar - ketchup, mayonnaise, salad
> > dressing. I prefer not to be pickled - at least while I'm still
> > alive.

xyz wrote:

> "texpat" > wrote in message >. ..
> > Mayonnaise doesn't contain vinegar.
> >
> > And why don't you want to consume vinegar?
> For me, it has an excito-toxic effect.

Wow, a new high. Next we'll hear about high school students using red wine vinegar for nasal
lavage.

On 13 Oct 2003 04:38:48 -0700, (xyz) wrote:

>"texpat" > wrote

>> And why don't you want to consume vinegar?

>For me, it has an excito-toxic effect. I take it all you vinegar
>lovers use MSG (monosodium glutamate) with abandon, as well!? Or is
>the Chinese Restaurant Syndrome a fiction?

Why on earth would you assume that? I'd never heard of excitotoxic
effects on neurons caused, sometimes, by glutamic or aspartic acid,
before this post. Brief Googling came up with no reference to vinegar
(or other acids) having anthing to do with this. If you have a rare
neurological condition, you should consult with your physicians about
foods that may be toxic to you. Since this condition wasn't addressed
in your original post, answers to "why do condiments contain vinegar?"
have been answered in full. If it is toxic for you, you will, like
those allergic to certain substances, have to check food labels
carefully. Many prepared foods contain vinegar...or nuts or milk
products or salt or eggs or shellfish than some must avoid. Evidently
yours is a rather rare condition. Too bad that such a common substance
is harmful to you.

(Carnivore269) wrote in
om:

>> No way, it has to be malt vinegar! Well, at least with fish & chips
>> it does!

> True... at least on _fried_ fish. :-)
> I actually prefer lemon and dill on baked fish!

Try orange instead of lemon. I like it sooo much better. But I also go with
malt vinegar. The dill sounds interesting. Maybe with some mustard as part
of an aioli.

(xyz) wrote in news:bafd6fb9.0310130338.5b23f221
@posting.google.com:

>> And why don't you want to consume vinegar?
> For me, it has an excito-toxic effect.

Any web references to this? I'd love to see the science.

ScratchMonkey > wrote in message >. ..
> (Carnivore269) wrote in
> om:
>
> >> No way, it has to be malt vinegar! Well, at least with fish & chips
> >> it does!
>
> > True... at least on _fried_ fish. :-)
> > I actually prefer lemon and dill on baked fish!
>
> Try orange instead of lemon. I like it sooo much better. But I also go with
> malt vinegar. The dill sounds interesting. Maybe with some mustard as part
> of an aioli.

Y'know, I've been reading more on this list about using Orange instead
of lemon for both fish and poultry... I'm just going to have to try
it! ;-)

Dill is wunnerful for fish IMHO.
I even use dill relish in my tuna and chicken salads.

I've not worked with mustard a lot except for deviled eggs, and
sausages of course. Time to play?

What else is mustard good for?

Thanks! :-)

C.

(xyz) wrote in message . com>...
> "texpat" > wrote in message >. ..
> > Mayonnaise doesn't contain vinegar.
> >
> > And why don't you want to consume vinegar?
> For me, it has an excito-toxic effect. I take it all you vinegar
> lovers use MSG (monosodium glutamate) with abandon, as well!? Or is
> the Chinese Restaurant Syndrome a fiction?

Yes, I use MSG whenever I want. No Chinese Restaurant Syndrome here.

Cindy Hamilton