On 2007-06-02, sf <sf> wrote:

> "Another" gun thread?

Guns? Someone mention guns?

Hey, guns, food, beer, I'm here! And don't tell me they don't mix.
Just because I have a bullet hole in my bedroom window is no good
reason. Besides, shooting empty beer cans with a pistol while
gnawin' on a rib bone is pert' near heaven in my book.

Toss me another brewski, Zeke!

nb

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:37:32 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>sf wrote:
>
>> >
>> While I wouldn't do it myself, I don't disapprove IF you have the
>> proper permits. It's the people who don't have permits but carry
>> weapons anyway that are causing all the trouble.
>
>I don't have a problem with people owning guns. It is their use that
>worries me. The use of firearms for self defence just increases the chance
>of the homeowner or one of the residents being killed by a gun. Too many
>of those people who insist on using firearms for self defence don't have
>the good sense to recognize a real threat before shooting. Just a few days
>ago there was a case where a homeowner shot an intruder. The home owner
>happened to be a police officer, so you would expect him to be able to
>identify the threat. Unfortunately, the "intruder" turned out to be his
>teenage daughter who had gone to bed and snuck out of the house. She was
>trying to sneak back in when Dead Eye Dad killed her.

According to the news articles I found, he didn't kill her
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,276438,00.html
http://www.wnbc.com/news/13410177/detail.html

I can hear it now: "Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people, ban
bullets".... or is it "People kill people, ban people"? Whatever. If
he had really killed his daughter he would have had to live with the
knowledge that he killed her for the rest of his life.

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On 2007-06-02, Dave Smith > wrote:

> the good sense to recognize a real threat before shooting. Just a few days
> ago......

You're a lyin' sack o' goat dung. That story is older than dirt and
gets dragged out more often than an illegal at a Home Depot parking lot.

nb

In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> <sf> wrote
>
> > While I wouldn't do it myself, I don't disapprove IF you have the
> > proper permits. It's the people who don't have permits but carry
> > weapons anyway that are causing all the trouble.
>
> OMG please don't let this turn into another gun thread.

Sorry. ;-)

I'll shut up then.

It COULD be made on topic if we talked about wild game...
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notbob wrote:
> Besides, shooting empty beer cans with a pistol while gnawin' on a
> rib bone is pert' near heaven in my book.
>


That *does* sound like fun!

(Beef ribs or pork ribs?)

Bob

On 2007-06-02, Dan Abel > wrote:

> Here in California, we've solved the education crisis.

We have?

> The legislature
> has passed laws that students in public schools have to do better. No
> funding, no resources of any kind, no strategy and no direction. You
> can imagine how well that is working.

Probably about as well as well meaning do-gooder educators who get all
kinds of funds and start giving it to every illegal that walks through
the door or keeps replacing essential education basics with bullcrap
experimental programs.

> How are they going to locate you? With the old technology, all that is
> known is which cell tower you are using. It isn't necessarily the
> closest one, either.

Who cares? If I want them to know where I am, I'll tell them.
Otherwise, it's none of their business.

nb

"Omelet" > wrote

> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>
>> <sf> wrote
>>
>> > While I wouldn't do it myself, I don't disapprove IF you have the
>> > proper permits. It's the people who don't have permits but carry
>> > weapons anyway that are causing all the trouble.
>>
>> OMG please don't let this turn into another gun thread.
>
> Sorry. ;-)
>
> I'll shut up then.
>
> It COULD be made on topic if we talked about wild game...

Heh, I know, how about a huge pig! No, that's been done.

Speaking of pig, I went to a jazz festival today ... it used to be
a food & jazz festival but somehow the jazz people took over.
Too bad. Anyway, they still had some food and I got some
pulled pork. It was very good. They had all different condiments,
from a container labeled A Little Vinegar, to Spicy BBQ or
Sweet BBQ. Umm ... heh, other stuff. Hot vinegar, I saw that.
Got some ribs, too. From another vendor got a gyro. At that
point it was really getting to be too hot, so even though the music
was good and the food was good, we left.

Next week, Greek festival.

nancy

jmcquown > wrote:

>I have no idea why people think talking on a cell phone makes them
>"important", but it's true.

There was a study (or at least once study) on this once.
It got some press after an incident a few years back when
a woman would not get off her cellphone while seated in an
airliner that needed to take off. Despite urging and protests
of the crew she would not end the phonecall.

The "expert" analysis is that some (many?) people have a
fundamental desire to identify a special group of people who
are automatically more important than anyone else. This group
always includes oneself naturally. For normal people this might
be their family, or their good friends or life partners, and
this group identification results in predictable and socially
acceptable behavior. But for some fraction of people their
internal concept of "who is important" abnormally morphs into
bizarre things like "participants in the current phonecall",
thus resulting in bad judgement with respect to behavior
during phonecalls. It's very hard to modify this behavior
because it ties into some survival center in the brain where
a person actually believes something dire will happen if they
don't give the identified group absolute top priority.

Could be psychobabble on the other hand it does explain some things.

Steve

sf wrote:
>
> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:37:32 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> >sf wrote:
> >
> >> >
> >> While I wouldn't do it myself, I don't disapprove IF you have the
> >> proper permits. It's the people who don't have permits but carry
> >> weapons anyway that are causing all the trouble.
> >
> >I don't have a problem with people owning guns. It is their use that
> >worries me. The use of firearms for self defence just increases the chance
> >of the homeowner or one of the residents being killed by a gun. Too many
> >of those people who insist on using firearms for self defence don't have
> >the good sense to recognize a real threat before shooting. Just a few days
> >ago there was a case where a homeowner shot an intruder. The home owner
> >happened to be a police officer, so you would expect him to be able to
> >identify the threat. Unfortunately, the "intruder" turned out to be his
> >teenage daughter who had gone to bed and snuck out of the house. She was
> >trying to sneak back in when Dead Eye Dad killed her.


I stand corrected. She was not killed, but she is in critical condition. A
bullet in the knee and up into the thigh should keep her off her feet for a
while.

They guy would be in deep trouble if he did that here. You can get away
with shooting someone if you can convince a court that they guy was coming
at you with a weapon. Shooting someone climbing in a window will get you
some jail time.


>
> According to the news articles I found, he didn't kill her
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,276438,00.html
> http://www.wnbc.com/news/13410177/detail.html
>
> I can hear it now: "Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people, ban
> bullets".... or is it "People kill people, ban people"? Whatever. If
> he had really killed his daughter he would have had to live with the
> knowledge that he killed her for the rest of his life.
>
> --
> See return address to reply by email

notbob wrote:

> On 2007-06-02, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
> > the good sense to recognize a real threat before shooting. Just a few
days
> > ago......
>
> You're a lyin' sack o' goat dung. That story is older than dirt and
> gets dragged out more often than an illegal at a Home Depot parking lot.
>


I did like the "Dead Eye Dad" reference, though...

--
Best
Greg

Nancy Young wrote:
>
>
>
> Speaking of pig, I went to a jazz festival today ... it used to be
> a food & jazz festival but somehow the jazz people took over.
> Too bad. Anyway, they still had some food and I got some
> pulled pork. It was very good. They had all different condiments,
> from a container labeled A Little Vinegar, to Spicy BBQ or
> Sweet BBQ. Umm ... heh, other stuff. Hot vinegar, I saw that.
> Got some ribs, too. From another vendor got a gyro. At that
> point it was really getting to be too hot, so even though the music
> was good and the food was good, we left.


They have a food festival near here every year. It started off a number of
years ago with local restaurants setting up booths and selling samplers of
some the the things on their menu. Prices were quite reasonable. Then the
organizers started their own currency, "bite bucks" , tokens to be used to
buy food, drinks or wine. That is when things started getting expensive. It
seemed silly to go to a booth and pay as much or more for a sample as it
would to buy a full portion of the dish at the restaurant. That's a
shame, because when the samples were cheap I was impressed enough with them
that I went to the restaurant for a meal.

It also saved me from going to one local restaurant. I was watching them
cook a shrimp dish and they were adding frozen cooked shrimp at the end.
That is a hell of a waste of shrimp.




>
> Next week, Greek festival.
>
> nancy
>

In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> On 2007-06-02, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
> > the good sense to recognize a real threat before shooting. Just a few days
> > ago......
>
> You're a lyin' sack o' goat dung. That story is older than dirt and
> gets dragged out more often than an illegal at a Home Depot parking lot.
>
> nb

Innocents shot in mistaken self-defense happen, but they are the
exception rather than the rule.
--
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"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

zxcvbob wrote:
> notbob wrote:
>
>> Besides, shooting empty beer cans with a pistol while gnawin' on a
>> rib bone is pert' near heaven in my book.
>>
>
>
> That *does* sound like fun!
>
> (Beef ribs or pork ribs?)
>
> Bob

Dog!

George

In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote
>
> > "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> >
> >> <sf> wrote
> >>
> >> > While I wouldn't do it myself, I don't disapprove IF you have the
> >> > proper permits. It's the people who don't have permits but carry
> >> > weapons anyway that are causing all the trouble.
> >>
> >> OMG please don't let this turn into another gun thread.
> >
> > Sorry. ;-)
> >
> > I'll shut up then.
> >
> > It COULD be made on topic if we talked about wild game...
>
> Heh, I know, how about a huge pig! No, that's been done.

Yeah. Turns out he was hand-raised iirc?

>
> Speaking of pig, I went to a jazz festival today ... it used to be
> a food & jazz festival but somehow the jazz people took over.
> Too bad. Anyway, they still had some food and I got some
> pulled pork. It was very good. They had all different condiments,
> from a container labeled A Little Vinegar, to Spicy BBQ or
> Sweet BBQ. Umm ... heh, other stuff. Hot vinegar, I saw that.
> Got some ribs, too. From another vendor got a gyro. At that
> point it was really getting to be too hot, so even though the music
> was good and the food was good, we left.
>
> Next week, Greek festival.
>
> nancy

As I posted in another post, my baby sister, brother in law and two
nephews are moving back into town from Phoenix. :-) Major happy dance!

I am saddled with Chelsea (their pembroke corgie) for now but that's no
chore as she is a great dog. She's already re-aquainted herself with my
Border Collie and is having a grand time.

I'm taking them all (except the dog) to Ironworks this week as soon as
they feel up to it. Sis' has a head cold right now so I'll wait.

I'll also get my butt over to her apt. tomorrow to help her unpack and
entertain the boys.

I may take the camera this time. Those beef ribs at Ironworks are
awesome.


>
--
Peace, Om

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"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On 2007-06-02, notbob > stuck both feet in his
mouth and wrote:

> You're a lyin' sack o' goat dung. That story is older than dirt and
> gets dragged out more often than an illegal at a Home Depot parking lot.

I apologize for the above post. I'm completely wrong. But, I swear I
heard the same story years ago and someone brought it up just a few
weeks back. Maybe it was a son. Maybe the guy wasn't a cop. Maybe
I'm just old. [shrug]

nb

In article >, sf wrote:

> the "intruder" turned out to be his
> >teenage daughter who had gone to bed and snuck out of the house. She was
> >trying to sneak back in when Dead Eye Dad killed her.
>
> According to the news articles I found, he didn't kill her
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,276438,00.html
> http://www.wnbc.com/news/13410177/detail.html
>
> I can hear it now: "Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people, ban
> bullets".... or is it "People kill people, ban people"? Whatever. If
> he had really killed his daughter he would have had to live with the
> knowledge that he killed her for the rest of his life.
>
> --

He also disobeyed one of the cardinal rules of gun safety:

"Always be sure of your target and what is beyond it".

You never, EVER fire at shadows, or a person you have not positively
identified.

That is what flashlights are for. Learn how to use one!

It's not the fault of the gun, but the dumbass that was using it.

Kinda like cigarette lighters... (etc.)
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"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> On 2007-06-02, sf <sf> wrote:
>
> > "Another" gun thread?
>
> Guns? Someone mention guns?
>
> Hey, guns, food, beer, I'm here! And don't tell me they don't mix.
> Just because I have a bullet hole in my bedroom window is no good
> reason. Besides, shooting empty beer cans with a pistol while
> gnawin' on a rib bone is pert' near heaven in my book.
>
> Toss me another brewski, Zeke!
>
> nb

Famous last words of rednecks:

"Hold my beer and watch this!"

<G>
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"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Omelet > wrote:

>He also disobeyed one of the cardinal rules of gun safety:

>"Always be sure of your target and what is beyond it".

>You never, EVER fire at shadows, or a person you have not positively
>identified.

Those rules are for civilians, not cops.

Steve

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:51:10 -0500, notbob > wrote:

>On 2007-06-02, notbob > stuck both feet in his
>mouth and wrote:
>
>> You're a lyin' sack o' goat dung. That story is older than dirt and
>> gets dragged out more often than an illegal at a Home Depot parking lot.
>
>I apologize for the above post. I'm completely wrong. But, I swear I
>heard the same story years ago and someone brought it up just a few
>weeks back. Maybe it was a son. Maybe the guy wasn't a cop. Maybe
>I'm just old. [shrug]
>
I could be that the circumstanses are not unique. Person shoots
intruder (in the dark) who turns out to be a family member when the
lights go on.....

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In article >,
zxcvbob > wrote:

> notbob wrote:
> > Besides, shooting empty beer cans with a pistol while gnawin' on a
> > rib bone is pert' near heaven in my book.
> >
>
>
> That *does* sound like fun!
>
> (Beef ribs or pork ribs?)
>
> Bob

Both!

And smoked sausage or Boudine!
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"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On 2007-06-02, sf <sf> wrote:

> I could be that the circumstanses are not unique. Person shoots
> intruder (in the dark) who turns out to be a family member when the
> lights go on.....

Yep. But, fortunately, it doesn't happen as often as intruders
shooting home residents.

nb

"Dave Smith" > wrote

> Nancy Young wrote:

>> Speaking of pig, I went to a jazz festival today ... it used to be
>> a food & jazz festival but somehow the jazz people took over.

> They have a food festival near here every year. It started off a number of
> years ago with local restaurants setting up booths and selling samplers of
> some the the things on their menu. Prices were quite reasonable.

*Precisely* ... it was started by local restauranteurs, and it was $3
for everything ... every restaurant had a booth with some of their
specials for 3 bucks, you could try all kinds of things. It was so much
fun, and if you bought 3 items, you were stuffed. That was a lot of food.

Now that the restaurants were edged out of the planning, etc., while
there are still some local places, mostly it's vendors with no connection
to the area.

> Then the
> organizers started their own currency, "bite bucks" , tokens to be used to
> buy food, drinks or wine. That is when things started getting expensive.
> It
> seemed silly to go to a booth and pay as much or more for a sample as it
> would to buy a full portion of the dish at the restaurant. That's a
> shame, because when the samples were cheap I was impressed enough with
> them
> that I went to the restaurant for a meal.

Exactly, and that was the idea. Darned shame.

> It also saved me from going to one local restaurant. I was watching them
> cook a shrimp dish and they were adding frozen cooked shrimp at the end.
> That is a hell of a waste of shrimp.

I think it was not easy for them to translate what they made in
a restaurant kitchen to making it in a tent, sometimes. Perhaps that
happened in your case.

nancy

George Shirley wrote:
> zxcvbob wrote:
>> notbob wrote:
>>
>>> Besides, shooting empty beer cans with a pistol while gnawin' on a
>>> rib bone is pert' near heaven in my book.
>>>
>>
>>
>> That *does* sound like fun!
>>
>> (Beef ribs or pork ribs?)
>>
>> Bob
>
> Dog!
>
> George
>


Dog ribs? (I'll have one of what George is drinking...) ;-)

Bob

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:24:52 -0500, notbob > wrote:

>On 2007-06-02, Dan Abel > wrote:
>
>> Here in California, we've solved the education crisis.
>
>We have?
>
>> The legislature
>> has passed laws that students in public schools have to do better. No
>> funding, no resources of any kind, no strategy and no direction. You
>> can imagine how well that is working.
>
>Probably about as well as well meaning do-gooder educators who get all
>kinds of funds and start giving it to every illegal that walks through
>the door or keeps replacing essential education basics with bullcrap
>experimental programs.
>
Geeze, nb - pull that stick out. You're a mighty cranky boy. Put
some program names behind your rant, otherwise I have no clue what
you're talking about.

Our esteemed govenator not only put his hand out to educators to help
him with the problem "no new taxes" caused, he also stole money from
ordinary citizens. I had a large sum of money sitting in "unclaimed"
property that suddenly disappeared. I have proof it existed, but a
lot of people will be missing money they didn't even know was there.
Fortunately for us, the state stole a large sum of money from someone
who is fighting back.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGVOQ5TTL1.DTL

>> How are they going to locate you? With the old technology, all that is
>> known is which cell tower you are using. It isn't necessarily the
>> closest one, either.
>
>Who cares? If I want them to know where I am, I'll tell them.
>Otherwise, it's none of their business.
>
I guess if you're ever lost in the woods, they will have to bring out
the *old* technology: bloodhounds.


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On 2007-06-02, sf <sf> wrote:

> Geeze, nb - pull that stick out. You're a mighty cranky boy. Put
> some program names behind your rant, otherwise I have no clue what
> you're talking about.

When I attended CA schools as a kid, we were ranked in the top five,
as I recall. Now we're in the bottom five. I received a sound
education. Today's kids come out dumber than a bag of hammers. Don't
tell me it's because of lack of funding. I watched my daughter go
through CA's educational system and I didn't like what I saw. There's
plenty of blame to go around, including parents AND teachers.

> I had a large sum of money sitting in "unclaimed"
> property that suddenly disappeared. I have proof it existed, but a
> lot of people will be missing money they didn't even know was there.

If you knew you had large sum of money, why didn't you claim it? If
they didn't know it was there, how do they know it's missing? What
the heck are you talking about?

> Fortunately for us, the state stole a large sum of money from someone
> who is fighting back.

What are you smoking?

> I guess if you're ever lost in the woods, they will have to bring out
> the *old* technology: bloodhounds.

I've been lost in the woods. I found my way out. Amazing how that
works.

nb

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> I stand corrected. She was not killed, but she is in critical condition. A
> bullet in the knee and up into the thigh should keep her off her feet for a
> while.
>
> They guy would be in deep trouble if he did that here. You can get away
> with shooting someone if you can convince a court that they guy was coming
> at you with a weapon. Shooting someone climbing in a window will get you
> some jail time.

It would in many states too, including Texas, until Sept. 1st 2007.

But still, I would NEVER shoot at unlit shadows.
That ignorant.
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"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> Omelet > wrote:
>
> >He also disobeyed one of the cardinal rules of gun safety:
>
> >"Always be sure of your target and what is beyond it".
>
> >You never, EVER fire at shadows, or a person you have not positively
> >identified.
>
> Those rules are for civilians, not cops.
>
> Steve

Bullshit.
--
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In article >, sf wrote:

> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:51:10 -0500, notbob > wrote:
>
> >On 2007-06-02, notbob > stuck both feet in his
> >mouth and wrote:
> >
> >> You're a lyin' sack o' goat dung. That story is older than dirt and
> >> gets dragged out more often than an illegal at a Home Depot parking lot.
> >
> >I apologize for the above post. I'm completely wrong. But, I swear I
> >heard the same story years ago and someone brought it up just a few
> >weeks back. Maybe it was a son. Maybe the guy wasn't a cop. Maybe
> >I'm just old. [shrug]
> >
> I could be that the circumstanses are not unique. Person shoots
> intruder (in the dark) who turns out to be a family member when the
> lights go on.....

Which is why you never fire at something/someone without at least
illuminating it first.

Read some tactical manuals. I've read many.
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In article >, Andy <q> says...
> notbob said...
>
> > On 2007-06-02, Omelet > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> can they use the phone to find your approximate location?
> >
> > I think the key is approximate. Like the James Kim thing, they knew
> > he was in the vacinity of a specific tower, but it was a very big and
> > remote vacinity. Plus, I'm not sure how long his cell phone remained
> > charged or if he had a car/phone charger. That whole episode was
> > tragic, but also very weird. Here's a guy who was an internet
> > magazine reviewer of cutting edge hi-tech gadgetry, yet he seemed
> > puzzlingly ignorant of their use.
> >
> > nb
>
>
> My cell phone's last GPS acquired location was taken back on May 31st, 6:11
> gmt.
>
> GPS is only accurate to within about 6 meters (about 20 feet), maybe less,
> recently. Just recently, the US government is trying to push for increased
> resolution (??) for the GPS/E911 system.
>
> Also, GPS needs open sky for acquisition. It doesn't see through roofs of
> cars or buildings, etc.
>
> Andy
>

Which is why the latest DARPA Grand Challenge participants can't relaly
use all that much GPS. This time it's an urban setting. I might actually
fly out to watch this year.

In article >,
lid says...
> Andy wrote:
>
> >
> > My cell phone's last GPS acquired location was taken back on May 31st, 6:11
> > gmt.
> >
> > GPS is only accurate to within about 6 meters (about 20 feet), maybe less,
> > recently. Just recently, the US government is trying to push for increased
> > resolution (??) for the GPS/E911 system.
> >
> > Also, GPS needs open sky for acquisition. It doesn't see through roofs of
> > cars or buildings, etc.
> >
> > Andy
>
>
>
> And in many states they are collecting the 911 tax on cellphones and not
> even using most of the money for the intended purpose (PA is one of them).
>

Yes, RI loots our E-911 fund too.

notbob wrote:
>
> On 2007-06-02, notbob > stuck both feet in his
> mouth and wrote:
>
> > You're a lyin' sack o' goat dung. That story is older than dirt and
> > gets dragged out more often than an illegal at a Home Depot parking lot.
>
> I apologize for the above post. I'm completely wrong. But, I swear I
> heard the same story years ago and someone brought it up just a few
> weeks back. Maybe it was a son. Maybe the guy wasn't a cop. Maybe
> I'm just old. [shrug]


There was an incident a few years ago where a little girl played a trick on
her father and hid in a closet and made noises to scare him. He shot and
killed her.

We have different rules her for the use of deadly force. Guns have to be
safely stored. The only justification for using deadly force is if there is
a serious threat on your person. Read that to be someone coming at you with
a weapon. That means no shooting at someone breaking in, unwanted intruders
and especially nt people running away from you. Police rarely use lethal
force here because they know that they are obliged to abide by use of force
guidelines and there will be a serious investigation and they are likely to
be charged.

Omelet wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Those rules are for civilians, not cops.
> >
> > Steve
>
> Bullshit.

Around here they apply even more to police. They are trained in "use of
force" and there is a policy regarding escalation of the use of force up to
deadly force. Having been trained, they are expected to react in a
professional manner.

Fwiw, my younger brother is a cop and once attended a domestic assault. The
assaulter came out of the house threatening to kill his wife. My brother
had his gun drawn but opted not to shoot. The guy went back in and stabbed
his wife. In the debriefing my brother told his sergeant that he was going
to shoot the guy and regretted not doing so. The sergeant told him that if
he had he would have been charged. They have only hindsight to know that
he was actually going to carry out the threat.

In article >,
says...
> On 2007-06-02, Nancy Young > wrote:
>
> > Wow, that's really interesting. Who'd have thought. Considering
> > that they are hiding black boxes in cars already, I guess it's a
> > matter of time until all cars have built in GPS like that Lo Jack.
>
> In fact, you already do. The small chip that controls your airbags
> already have certain limited capabilities. Insurance companies have
> learned some of these limited circuits are able to record the speed you
> were going when you crashed. Gotchya!!
>
> nb
>

It isn't just the airbag controllers. All cars built since 1996 have
what's been called OBD-II. OBD being On Board Diagnostics. They record
just about everything.

Check the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs

In article >, sf says...
> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 10:34:03 -0500, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> > CCW/CHL
> What's that?
>
>
>

In normal terms, a concealed carry permit. There is no federal carry
law, so it's highly jurisdictional. Good if you live in large states
like CA and TX, lousy if you live in RI.

In article >, sf says...
> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 12:50:20 -0500, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >, sf wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 10:34:03 -0500, Omelet >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > CCW/CHL
> >> What's that?
> >
> >In Texas, a license to carry a concealed handgun is called a CHL or
> >Concealed Handgun License.
> >
> >Most states call it a CCW or Concealed Carry Weapon permit.
> >
> Thanks.
>
> >I got called down on some lists for just saying CHL even tho' it makes
> >more sense than the CCW acronym.
> >
> >I have one.
> >
> While I wouldn't do it myself, I don't disapprove IF you have the
> proper permits. It's the people who don't have permits but carry
> weapons anyway that are causing all the trouble.
>
>


That's the thing that bugs me. A law abiding citizen shouldn't need a
permit to carry a weapon. Criminals don't apply for permits, do they?

In article >,
says...
> In article >, sf wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 12:50:20 -0500, Omelet >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In article >, sf wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 10:34:03 -0500, Omelet >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > CCW/CHL
> > >> What's that?
> > >
> > >In Texas, a license to carry a concealed handgun is called a CHL or
> > >Concealed Handgun License.
> > >
> > >Most states call it a CCW or Concealed Carry Weapon permit.
> > >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > >I got called down on some lists for just saying CHL even tho' it makes
> > >more sense than the CCW acronym.
> > >
> > >I have one.
> > >
> > While I wouldn't do it myself, I don't disapprove IF you have the
> > proper permits. It's the people who don't have permits but carry
> > weapons anyway that are causing all the trouble.
>
> Yes... and no.
> Only if they are criminals.
>
> Granted, getting the permit DOES pretty much guarantee that said carrier
> is not going to be a criminal (requires 2 federal background checks) but
> there are many lazy people that just don't want to go thru the process.
>
> It's a PITA and requires renewal every for years, and the original
> permit runs about $250.00 when all is said and done.
>
> It's the criminals carrying illegal/stolen weapons that make people like
> me want to carry in the first place.

It's more of a PITA when the law states that the sitting AG has to
approve all permits. And the one in office now won't approve shit in RI.

Here's the thing that really gets me though. RI has Castle Doctrine,
RIGL 11-8-8. We are under no duty to retreat in our homes or vehicles
yet we are shielded from civil and criminal liability.

Reconcile that with our idiotic gun laws.

Dave Smith > scripsit in
:

> Are you suggesting that we have to keep our voices down in order
> not to disturb the lout's high volume conversation.

No, I'm suggesting that by raising your voice to annoy the cell phone
user that you are indirectly punishing other non-cell phone users
around you.

For one thing, I don't find that cell phone users have a tendency to
raise their voice; we have many of them at work (techs and managers)
and I have never found their conversations to be in any way disruptive.

In fact, cellphones now have volume controls so that you can hear much
better. You should in fact speak into a cellphone with a regular
voice. Perhaps you should inform those who shout (if in fact they do)
of these modern features. Bad reception may have been the case twenty
years ago when you decided to behave that way, but the technology has
improved since then. However, it seems your need to impose yourself
hasn't.

--

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's
oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the
search for a superior moral justification for
selfishness." -- John Kenneth Galbraith

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message

> <sf> wrote
>
> > While I wouldn't do it myself, I don't disapprove IF you have the
> > proper permits. It's the people who don't have permits but carry
> > weapons anyway that are causing all the trouble.
>
> OMG please don't let this turn into another gun thread.

Too late. Omlet has entered the thread.

BOB

On 2007-06-02, Dave Smith > wrote:

> and especially nt people running away from you. Police rarely use lethal
> force here because they know that they are obliged to abide by use of force
> guidelines.......

Lucky you!

Here in CA, the public has all kinds of restrictions on gun
use/ownership, yet the police will shoot you down for carrying a
suspicious looking bag of marshmallows. They prefer shooting en masse
so it's harder to fight 'em for an unjustified shooting. I can
understand it to a point, what with all the gangs no longer having any
reluctance whatsoever to shoot cops. So, it's getting pretty scary,
here. Hell, I let go of the steering wheel and throw my hands up when
I see one in my rear view mirror! I steer with my knees and clean up
the wet spot later.

nb

On 2007-06-02, T > wrote:


> law, so it's highly jurisdictional. Good if you live in large states
> like CA and TX, lousy if you live in RI.

You need to do your homework. There is certainly no CCW in CA. In
fact, CA is one of the most oppresive gun ownership states in the
Union. People are leaving because of the increasingly draconion gun
laws. I've had to sell 2 of my guns. No more. I'm gone.

nb