On Jun 8, 2:39?am, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:45:54 -0500, Scott > wrote:
>
> >>> Do you think if they legalize prostitution ( I don't mean
> >>> street/corner prostitution) it will cut down on the number of rapes?
>
> >> No. Rape is not about sex. First and foremost it's about forced power and
> >> control over another person. Degradation and humiliation go right along
> >> with it, hence the number of rapes that still go unreported.
>
> >That is definitely true but don't you think there are some cases where
> >just wanting to get some is the motivating factor?
>
> Think about it, bro. Just wanting to "get some" fits the criteria.
> How would you get it without overpowering a female in some way (mental
> or physical)?

Explain what you mean by mental and physical... if you eliminate the
mental and physical you ain't "getting any" ever. Charming (mental)
and handsome (physical) always works for me.

Resorting to any kind of forcing to "get some" has never been in my
litany of options... besides my good looks I have my silver tongued
wit, my greatest asset is humor, getting a woman to laugh is 90pct of
the way home for me... but most important right from the get-go is
showing the woman I'm trustworthy. I've always treated each encounter
like an important job interview, I'm always willing to wait for the
gal to do her FBI check... I don't need to "get any" on the first date
or even the first few dates... but I can always tell by the first date
whether getting any is in the cards. I don't "give any" on a first
date either, I gotta do my FBI check too... a woman who comes on too
strong on a first date is probably trouble.

Sheldon

On Jun 7, 10:35 am, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> Scott wrote:
> > Sheldon wrote:
> >> Police Make Arrest in Kansas Teen's Death
> >> Girl's Body Reportedly Found at a Missouri Lake
> >> By MARIA SUDEKUM FISHER
> >> AP
> >> OVERLAND PARK, Kan. (June 7) - Police arrested a man in the abduction
> >> and death of a teenager whose body was found Wednesday in a Missouri
> >> park four days after she disappeared from a Kansas store's parking
> >> lot.
>
> >> -----
>
> > Do you think if they legalize prostitution ( I don't mean
> > street/corner prostitution) it will cut down on the number of rapes?
>
> No. Rape is not about sex. First and foremost it's about forced power and
> control over another person. Degradation and humiliation go right along
> with it, hence the number of rapes that still go unreported.

But "power" and "degradation and humiliation" can be sexual turn-ons.
Inappropriate sexual turn-ons, yes, but the whole crock-of-shit line,
"Rape is not about sex," is promoted to make rape victims feel better,
and hopefully lessen the rape's effect on the victim's sexuality.
However well meaning, it is still bullshit.
I go so far as to say that any sexual intercourse that takes place in
a context of men being for more powerful than women is potentially
rape. That includes all sex that takes place in highly patriarchal
societies. In these societies, women have less power than the typical
12 year old girl in the West, and we think that guys who seduce 12
year old girls are horrible cads.

In parts of Africa they practice FGM*, which is meant to make
intercourse undesirable for women, thus transforming EVERY event into
rape. There, rape is the norm for sexual relations. Do you think
that when Nigerian men have sex with their mutilated wives, that it
"is not about sex"? You think that those guys aren't horny?

However much people don't like to admit it, rape is on the continuum
of normal human sexuality. That doesn't make it good, or even
acceptable. It is also "normal" to want to kill people who have upset
you, but we don't allow it, and for good reason. It is normal to want
to take your neighbors' food, dwelling, whatever too. We attempt to
socialize our children such that they do not do those things, by
instilling empathy and a sense of fairness. We don't always succeed.

Prostitution should be legal for ONE REASON, because our society,
which has, and continues to treat women as second class human beings,
has no moral authority to tell and individual woman what she may or
may not do with her own body. Telling women that they cannot use any
asset that they happen to have in consensual commerce continues that
patriarchal ownership paradigm. Those who think otherwise have a lot
in common with bin Laden and his folks.

In bonobo** societies there is no rape, and the females use their
sexual appeal to empower themselves, the nightmare scenario for all
the patriarchal religios, be they Taliban, or the guy in the Vatican.


*"The importance given to virginity and an intact hymen in these
societies is the reason why female circumcision still remains a very
widespread practice despite a growing tendency, especially in urban
Egypt, to do away with it as something outdated and harmful. Behind
circumcision lies the belief that, by removing parts of girls'
external genitals organs, sexual desire is minimized. This permits a
female who has reached the dangerous age of puberty and adolescence to
protect her virginity, and therefore her honor, with greater ease.
Chastity was imposed on male attendants in the female harem by
castration which turned them into inoffensive eunuchs. Similarly
female circumcision is meant to preserve the chastity of young girls
by reducing their desire for sexual intercourse."
--source: http://www.religioustolerance.org/fem_cirm.htm

** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo

--Bryan

Frustrated daddies
Pathetic old men
Keep tryin' to sell us
With love as a sin
We're all fu(king sick of pathetic old men
--The Bonobos

"Pete C." > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia wrote:
>>
>> "Omelet" > wrote in message newsmp_omelet->
>> > I have to travel and shop alone the majority of the time.
>> >
>> > One more good reason to simply travel armed.
>> >
>> > If this girl had been, maybe she'd still be alive.
>> >
>> > I've noted that most are too cowardly to address that issue.
>>
>> Well not me! I would love to be able to arm myself but our laws are very
>> strict.
>
> Suggest you change your laws.

If I could............................................. ...............

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" > wrote in message newsmp_omelet->
>> > I have to travel and shop alone the majority of the time.
>> >
>> > One more good reason to simply travel armed.
>> >
>> > If this girl had been, maybe she'd still be alive.
>> >
>> > I've noted that most are too cowardly to address that issue.
>>
>> Well not me! I would love to be able to arm myself but our laws are very
>> strict.
>>
>> My daughter who lives in Germany came home on holiday once. At the
>> airport
>> they discovered a spray in her bag, (which are legal in Germany) and they
>> gave her an awful time. Eventually they confiscated it and let her on
>> her
>> way (back to Germany)
>
> If it was not illegal, why did they take it? :-(

She had been home and it was the UK passport control that took it.


> At the very least, you can arm yourself with pepper spray and a good
> folding lock back knife. I'm not trained in knife combat, but it's
> better than nothing.

Anyone carrying a knife or pepper spray will find themselve in trouble
fast!!!


> The one I have has a belt clip. Clips nicely to the inside of my bra.
>
> Would never try to get it thru an airport but I only fly if I HAVE to.
>
> The pepper spray (small one) is on a keychain and there is a larger one
> in my purse.

Be grateful you are in a sensible country!

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news

> Home defense is what the Mossberg is for...
> --

I don't know what Mossberg is but if we would shoot a burgler, guess who
would be prosecuted???

Only the criminals have unlicenced weapons.

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> On Jun 8, 7:31 am, "Ophelia" > wrote:
>> "Omelet" > wrote in message newsmp_omelet->
>> > I have to travel and shop alone the majority of the time.
>>
>> > One more good reason to simply travel armed.
>>
>> > If this girl had been, maybe she'd still be alive.
>>
>> > I've noted that most are too cowardly to address that issue.
>>
>> Well not me! I would love to be able to arm myself but our laws are very
>> strict.
>>
>> My daughter who lives in Germany came home on holiday once. At the
>> airport
>> they discovered a spray in her bag, (which are legal in Germany) and they
>> gave her an awful time. Eventually they confiscated it and let her on
>> her
>> way (back to Germany)
>
> I had that happen to me in Washington, D.C. They threatened to take
> me to jail. They had the hand-cuffs out. Scared me to death!
> Tourist, old woman in tennis shoes

OH dear(( I though it was legal for you in US??

I just got this in a bulletin on myspace:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/ori...s_wamsley.html

Here is James Wamsley's myspace:
myspace.com/jamesvolcom

--Bryan, not apologizing for top posting

On Jun 8, 9:37 am, BOBOBOnoBO® fka Food Snob >
wrote:
> On Jun 7, 10:35 am, "jmcquown" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Scott wrote:
> > > Sheldon wrote:
> > >> Police Make Arrest in Kansas Teen's Death
> > >> Girl's Body Reportedly Found at a Missouri Lake
> > >> By MARIA SUDEKUM FISHER
> > >> AP
> > >> OVERLAND PARK, Kan. (June 7) - Police arrested a man in the abduction
> > >> and death of a teenager whose body was found Wednesday in a Missouri
> > >> park four days after she disappeared from a Kansas store's parking
> > >> lot.
>
> > >> -----
>
> > > Do you think if they legalize prostitution ( I don't mean
> > > street/corner prostitution) it will cut down on the number of rapes?
>
> > No. Rape is not about sex. First and foremost it's about forced power and
> > control over another person. Degradation and humiliation go right along
> > with it, hence the number of rapes that still go unreported.
>
> But "power" and "degradation and humiliation" can be sexual turn-ons.
> Inappropriate sexual turn-ons, yes, but the whole crock-of-shit line,
> "Rape is not about sex," is promoted to make rape victims feel better,
> and hopefully lessen the rape's effect on the victim's sexuality.
> However well meaning, it is still bullshit.
> I go so far as to say that any sexual intercourse that takes place in
> a context of men being for more powerful than women is potentially
> rape. That includes all sex that takes place in highly patriarchal
> societies. In these societies, women have less power than the typical
> 12 year old girl in the West, and we think that guys who seduce 12
> year old girls are horrible cads.
>
> In parts of Africa they practice FGM*, which is meant to make
> intercourse undesirable for women, thus transforming EVERY event into
> rape. There, rape is the norm for sexual relations. Do you think
> that when Nigerian men have sex with their mutilated wives, that it
> "is not about sex"? You think that those guys aren't horny?
>
> However much people don't like to admit it, rape is on the continuum
> of normal human sexuality. That doesn't make it good, or even
> acceptable. It is also "normal" to want to kill people who have upset
> you, but we don't allow it, and for good reason. It is normal to want
> to take your neighbors' food, dwelling, whatever too. We attempt to
> socialize our children such that they do not do those things, by
> instilling empathy and a sense of fairness. We don't always succeed.
>
> Prostitution should be legal for ONE REASON, because our society,
> which has, and continues to treat women as second class human beings,
> has no moral authority to tell and individual woman what she may or
> may not do with her own body. Telling women that they cannot use any
> asset that they happen to have in consensual commerce continues that
> patriarchal ownership paradigm. Those who think otherwise have a lot
> in common with bin Laden and his folks.
>
> In bonobo** societies there is no rape, and the females use their
> sexual appeal to empower themselves, the nightmare scenario for all
> the patriarchal religios, be they Taliban, or the guy in the Vatican.
>
> *"The importance given to virginity and an intact hymen in these
> societies is the reason why female circumcision still remains a very
> widespread practice despite a growing tendency, especially in urban
> Egypt, to do away with it as something outdated and harmful. Behind
> circumcision lies the belief that, by removing parts of girls'
> external genitals organs, sexual desire is minimized. This permits a
> female who has reached the dangerous age of puberty and adolescence to
> protect her virginity, and therefore her honor, with greater ease.
> Chastity was imposed on male attendants in the female harem by
> castration which turned them into inoffensive eunuchs. Similarly
> female circumcision is meant to preserve the chastity of young girls
> by reducing their desire for sexual intercourse."
> --source:http://www.religioustolerance.org/fem_cirm.htm
>
> **http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo
>
> --Bryan
>
> Frustrated daddies
> Pathetic old men
> Keep tryin' to sell us
> With love as a sin
> We're all fu(king sick of pathetic old men
> --The Bonobos

In article >,
Giusi > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Giusi > wrote:
>
> >
> >> I believe that the effort ought to be to make the streets safe for
> >> ordinary people, not turn every ordinary person into Dirty Harry. It can
> >> be done, because most of the world is safer than the US. You'd have to
> >> ask yourself why.
> >
> > Since when?
> >
> > You have to make the criminals afraid to attack you.
>
> You have to make fewer criminal and violent people.

All it takes is one.

There are no countries that are Utopia.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Ophelia" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news >
>
> > Home defense is what the Mossberg is for...
> > --
>
> I don't know what Mossberg is

Shotgun.


> but if we would shoot a burgler, guess who
> would be prosecuted???
>
> Only the criminals have unlicenced weapons.

So you can have a licensed weapon?

The vast majority of the time, all it takes to scare a criminal off is
brandishing.

You don't always have to shoot them.

But, is it better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6?
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On Jun 8, 10:52 am, "Ophelia" > wrote:
> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
>
> ps.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 8, 7:31 am, "Ophelia" > wrote:
> >> "Omelet" > wrote in message newsmp_omelet->
> >> > I have to travel and shop alone the majority of the time.
>
> >> > One more good reason to simply travel armed.
>
> >> > If this girl had been, maybe she'd still be alive.
>
> >> > I've noted that most are too cowardly to address that issue.
>
> >> Well not me! I would love to be able to arm myself but our laws are very
> >> strict.
>
> >> My daughter who lives in Germany came home on holiday once. At the
> >> airport
> >> they discovered a spray in her bag, (which are legal in Germany) and they
> >> gave her an awful time. Eventually they confiscated it and let her on
> >> her
> >> way (back to Germany)
>
> > I had that happen to me in Washington, D.C. They threatened to take
> > me to jail. They had the hand-cuffs out. Scared me to death!
> > Tourist, old woman in tennis shoes
>
> OH dear(( I though it was legal for you in US??- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Evidently, not in Washington, D.C. is what I was told. Too bad I
didn't know that before this little fiasco. But I didn't even
realize I had it in my pocket. When asked to dump out my pockets,
there it was, "the Pepper Spray!."
Dee Dee

"Omelet" > wrote in message newsmp_omelet->> I don't
know what Mossberg is
>
> Shotgun.

Pah! David is laughing at me cos he knew that )

>
>
>> but if we would shoot a burgler, guess who
>> would be prosecuted???
>>
>> Only the criminals have unlicenced weapons.
>
> So you can have a licensed weapon?

Yes but don't try to shoot anyone with it. In the house it must always be
locked in a secure gun cupboard and anyone and only the licencee is allowed
to know where those keys are kept.

O

>
> The vast majority of the time, all it takes to scare a criminal off is
> brandishing.
>
> You don't always have to shoot them.
>
> But, is it better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6?
> --
> Peace, Om

Well, even if the 12 are more concerned with the rights of criminals than
their intended victims, you get out of jail eventually, not mny get back out
of their coffin!

David

Omelet wrote:
>
> In article >,
> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>
> > "Omelet" > wrote in message
> > news > >
> >
> > > Home defense is what the Mossberg is for...
> > > --
> >
> > I don't know what Mossberg is
>
> Shotgun.
>
> > but if we would shoot a burgler, guess who
> > would be prosecuted???
> >
> > Only the criminals have unlicenced weapons.
>
> So you can have a licensed weapon?

Not in the UK, unless perhaps you're a royal.

>
> The vast majority of the time, all it takes to scare a criminal off is
> brandishing.

Sometimes just an obvious reach for that waistband holster is
sufficient.

>
> You don't always have to shoot them.
>
> But, is it better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6?

Not in the country that seriously proposed banning kitchen knives.

"Pete C." > wrote in message
...
>>> So you can have a licensed weapon?
>
> Not in the UK, unless perhaps you're a royal.

of course you can. We are not royal!!!! But you have to prove you have a
reason, ie land to shoot over or gun club etc..


> Not in the country that seriously proposed banning kitchen knives.

Aye that is right enough(

Omelet wrote:
>
> I have to travel and shop alone the majority of the time.
>
> One more good reason to simply travel armed.
>
> If this girl had been, maybe she'd still be alive.

And he might have just used her own gun on her, as well.

>
> I've noted that most are too cowardly to address that issue.

Nope, just don't agree with it what-so-ever. I'd more than happy if
they banned guns altogether. The US is uniquely ****ed up with
respect to gun laws.

-L.

"-L." wrote:
>
> Omelet wrote:
> >
> > I have to travel and shop alone the majority of the time.
> >
> > One more good reason to simply travel armed.
> >
> > If this girl had been, maybe she'd still be alive.
>
> And he might have just used her own gun on her, as well.

That is always one of the anti-guners arguments, however the statistics
simply don't back it up. Trained, licensed gun owners rarely ever have
their own guns used on them and they also have much better hit rates
than the police do.

>
> >
> > I've noted that most are too cowardly to address that issue.
>
> Nope, just don't agree with it what-so-ever. I'd more than happy if
> they banned guns altogether. The US is uniquely ****ed up with
> respect to gun laws.

No, the anti-guners are uniquely ****ed up in their willful blindness to
the real statistics that debunk their arguments. Ok, perhaps not
uniquely since the same applies to those "Intelligent design" loons...

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> Giusi > wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Giusi > wrote:
>>>> I believe that the effort ought to be to make the streets safe for
>>>> ordinary people, not turn every ordinary person into Dirty Harry. It can
>>>> be done, because most of the world is safer than the US. You'd have to
>>>> ask yourself why.
>>> Since when?
>>>
>>> You have to make the criminals afraid to attack you.
>> You have to make fewer criminal and violent people.
>
> All it takes is one.
>
> There are no countries that are Utopia.

That is begging the entire subject, let alone the question. No, no
place is Utopia. I did not say it was. But the violent crime rate in
the US is a much higher percentage than most countries. Countries with
wars and tribal fights aside, I believe the US is pretty much tops.
Someone published the statistics a while back with a link and I looked
at the figures many different ways and violent crime is just a scourge
in the US. That's what you need to figure out. Babies are being born
innocent and growing up to be monsters at a rate that outdoes other
countries by a great deal. Arming every citizen won't solve a thing.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Giusi wrote:
>
> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Giusi > wrote:
> >
> >> Omelet wrote:
> >>> In article >,
> >>> Giusi > wrote:
> >>>> I believe that the effort ought to be to make the streets safe for
> >>>> ordinary people, not turn every ordinary person into Dirty Harry. It can
> >>>> be done, because most of the world is safer than the US. You'd have to
> >>>> ask yourself why.
> >>> Since when?
> >>>
> >>> You have to make the criminals afraid to attack you.
> >> You have to make fewer criminal and violent people.
> >
> > All it takes is one.
> >
> > There are no countries that are Utopia.
>
> That is begging the entire subject, let alone the question. No, no
> place is Utopia. I did not say it was. But the violent crime rate in
> the US is a much higher percentage than most countries. Countries with
> wars and tribal fights aside, I believe the US is pretty much tops.
> Someone published the statistics a while back with a link and I looked
> at the figures many different ways and violent crime is just a scourge
> in the US. That's what you need to figure out. Babies are being born
> innocent and growing up to be monsters at a rate that outdoes other
> countries by a great deal. Arming every citizen won't solve a thing.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Arming citizens aids in removing the criminals from the gene pool and
preventing repeat offenses.

Omelet > wrote:

> One has to take responsibility for their own defense. Nobody
> is going to do it for you.

Sure. Let's see. The incidence of getting murdered in the U.S.
is 6 per 100,000. Two to five times that of any civilized country,
but still way, way lower than many other causes of death such as
accidents, coronary disease and so on. And lower than the risk
in the U.S. one century ago.

The time spent learning how to use a firearm and remaining trained
so that you could reduce your odds of getting killed in a homicide
could be better spend avoiding far riskier activities. Say,
being in a motor vehicle. Or take the time you'd spend at the
shooting range and use it for aerobic exercise instead. You're
better off.

If you're packing a piece but spending lots of time on the road,
you're putting your personal safety at peril far more than an
individual who does neither of these. So, who is being more
responsible?

Steve

Puester wrote:
>
> According to the news she was in a private cell, and even if she wasn't,
> why should she get preferential treatment to other felons? She was
> caught driving drunk more than once and drove again after her license
> was suspended. I wonder what the penalty would have been if she had
> killed someone while driving under the influence....

I don't dispute that she deserved some jail time. I was just trying to
point out that there are some real losers in jail and some of them like to
make a name for themselves by attacking more famous and celebrity
prisoners. She deserves to go to jail, but what she does not deserve is to
have her life endangered in a violent environment. It is like the issue of
convicted pedophiles who are put into protective custody. They deserve the
jail time, and since there is generally not a death sentence for those
crimes, or where there is it has to be a more humane method of execution,
we sure as hell don't throw them into a situation where they will be
subjected to vicious beatings and possible death.

In article >,
"Ophelia" > wrote:

> Anyone carrying a knife or pepper spray will find themselve in trouble
> fast!!!

Pepper spray is outlawed too???

Yeesh!

I hope they supply the people with personal bodyguards at government
expense!

>
>
> > The one I have has a belt clip. Clips nicely to the inside of my bra.
> >
> > Would never try to get it thru an airport but I only fly if I HAVE to.
> >
> > The pepper spray (small one) is on a keychain and there is a larger one
> > in my purse.
>
> Be grateful you are in a sensible country!

Indeed.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Ophelia" > wrote:

> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> > On Jun 8, 7:31 am, "Ophelia" > wrote:
> >> "Omelet" > wrote in message newsmp_omelet->
> >> > I have to travel and shop alone the majority of the time.
> >>
> >> > One more good reason to simply travel armed.
> >>
> >> > If this girl had been, maybe she'd still be alive.
> >>
> >> > I've noted that most are too cowardly to address that issue.
> >>
> >> Well not me! I would love to be able to arm myself but our laws are very
> >> strict.
> >>
> >> My daughter who lives in Germany came home on holiday once. At the
> >> airport
> >> they discovered a spray in her bag, (which are legal in Germany) and they
> >> gave her an awful time. Eventually they confiscated it and let her on
> >> her
> >> way (back to Germany)
> >
> > I had that happen to me in Washington, D.C. They threatened to take
> > me to jail. They had the hand-cuffs out. Scared me to death!
> > Tourist, old woman in tennis shoes
>
> OH dear(( I though it was legal for you in US??

I don't think you can take it thru the airport.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article .com>,
Dee Dee > wrote:

> On Jun 8, 10:52 am, "Ophelia" > wrote:
> > "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
> >
> > ps.com...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jun 8, 7:31 am, "Ophelia" > wrote:
> > >> "Omelet" > wrote in message newsmp_omelet->
> > >> > I have to travel and shop alone the majority of the time.
> >
> > >> > One more good reason to simply travel armed.
> >
> > >> > If this girl had been, maybe she'd still be alive.
> >
> > >> > I've noted that most are too cowardly to address that issue.
> >
> > >> Well not me! I would love to be able to arm myself but our laws are very
> > >> strict.
> >
> > >> My daughter who lives in Germany came home on holiday once. At the
> > >> airport
> > >> they discovered a spray in her bag, (which are legal in Germany) and they
> > >> gave her an awful time. Eventually they confiscated it and let her on
> > >> her
> > >> way (back to Germany)
> >
> > > I had that happen to me in Washington, D.C. They threatened to take
> > > me to jail. They had the hand-cuffs out. Scared me to death!
> > > Tourist, old woman in tennis shoes
> >
> > OH dear(( I though it was legal for you in US??- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Evidently, not in Washington, D.C. is what I was told. Too bad I
> didn't know that before this little fiasco. But I didn't even
> realize I had it in my pocket. When asked to dump out my pockets,
> there it was, "the Pepper Spray!."
> Dee Dee

The laws in DC are being overturned. Their anti-weapon laws are
draconian.

The supreme court recently overuled the DC gun ban.
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In article >,
"Pete C." > wrote:

> > You don't always have to shoot them.
> >
> > But, is it better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6?
>
> Not in the country that seriously proposed banning kitchen knives.

I read about that.

Idiocy.
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In article >,
"Ophelia" > wrote:

>
> "Omelet" > wrote in message newsmp_omelet->> I don't
> know what Mossberg is
> >
> > Shotgun.
>
> Pah! David is laughing at me cos he knew that )

Not everybody knows common gun brands. <G>

>
> >
> >
> >> but if we would shoot a burgler, guess who
> >> would be prosecuted???
> >>
> >> Only the criminals have unlicenced weapons.
> >
> > So you can have a licensed weapon?
>
> Yes but don't try to shoot anyone with it. In the house it must always be
> locked in a secure gun cupboard and anyone and only the licencee is allowed
> to know where those keys are kept.
>
> O

That is what I have read.
Not many people are willing to face on tho'.
Even the sound of the pump action will scare most off.

I keep mine next to my bed in it's case.
It is loaded (but not chambered) with #3 buckshot.

>
> >
> > The vast majority of the time, all it takes to scare a criminal off is
> > brandishing.
> >
> > You don't always have to shoot them.
> >
> > But, is it better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6?
>
> Well, even if the 12 are more concerned with the rights of criminals than
> their intended victims, you get out of jail eventually, not mny get back out
> of their coffin!
>
> David

Exactly.
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In article >,
"Ophelia" > wrote:

> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> So you can have a licensed weapon?
> >
> > Not in the UK, unless perhaps you're a royal.
>
> of course you can. We are not royal!!!! But you have to prove you have a
> reason, ie land to shoot over or gun club etc..

I had understood that you could own long guns for hunting.
One very cool thing that is very much overlooked are air guns.

Air guns are not classified as firearms, not even here. :-)
It is not legal to discharge firearms within the city limits.
BB/pellet air driven guns are exempt.

There are Air guns available now that can take down an Elk...
It's being kept a bit quiet as nobody wants the powers that be to pay
close attention to current pneumatic technology:

http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/

>
>
> > Not in the country that seriously proposed banning kitchen knives.
>
> Aye that is right enough(

I believe you can still own an air rifle?
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Pete C. wrote:
> limey wrote:
>>
>> Becca wrote:
>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> The thing is, this was a teenager. And sadly, her parents didn't
>>>> teach her these basic rules. Mine did. I feel for the family.
>>>>
>>>> Jill
>>>
>>> Jill, I am glad you are cautious, this is probably why you have been
>>> safe. This girl's father was in law enforcement for 16 years, so I
>>> have a hard time believing that her father did not teach her to be
>>> careful. Parents teach kids a lot; do not take drugs, do not drink,
>>> do not smoke, wear your seatbelt, etc., but teenagers have a mind of
>>> their own.
>>> Becca
>>
>> I'm having a hard time with this young girl's death today. She had
>> just graduated, was bright and pretty and her life has been wrenched
>> away. At the same time, we have the news reporters concentrating
>> on spoiled Paris Hilton and her having served five days of her
>> original 45 days in prison "but will wear an ankle bracelet and be
>> under house arrest". Things seem on tilt, somehow.
>>
>> Dora
>
> You should also be concerned that the media has already convicted the
> suspect in the case. There has been no trial and the only evidence
> we're aware of so far is that someone who looked like the suspect was
> shopping at the same store at about the same time. Perhaps the police
> have more evidence, but the media doesn't and should not be
> convicting the guy before a trial.
>
> Pete C.

They do it all the time, though, Pete. If there's nothing important to
report in the news they'll drag a suspect through the mud over every
relationship he ever had or even thought about having. I'm not
unsympathetic to the poor young womans' family, not in the least. But we're
just a bunch of folks on usenet; we don't know for sure this guy did
anything at all. This isn't an episode of CSI or Law & Order.

Jill

In article .com>,
"-L." > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> >
> > I have to travel and shop alone the majority of the time.
> >
> > One more good reason to simply travel armed.
> >
> > If this girl had been, maybe she'd still be alive.
>
> And he might have just used her own gun on her, as well.

Oh please...

>
> >
> > I've noted that most are too cowardly to address that issue.
>
> Nope, just don't agree with it what-so-ever. I'd more than happy if
> they banned guns altogether. The US is uniquely ****ed up with
> respect to gun laws.
>
> -L.

So you want everybody to be helpless against attackers that won't give a
flip about gun laws? Criminals don't obey gun bans.

That is what makes them criminals.

The police are not obligated to protect you.
They are mostly the clean up crew.

A Liberal is a Conservative that has never been mugged...
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Omelet wrote:
>
>
> > Anyone carrying a knife or pepper spray will find themselve in trouble
> > fast!!!
>
> Pepper spray is outlawed too???

It is in most places. Imagine what a great robbery tool it could be. Why
bother to pull a gun on someone when you can just give him a quick, quiet
spray (except for the screaming) and incapacitate the person.

>
> Yeesh!
>
> I hope they supply the people with personal bodyguards at government
> expense!

Oddly, The only modern industrialized country where people feel a need to
be armed or protected in the US, where so many people carry guns for
"protection", many of them just living for the moment when they will get a
chance to do so.

elaine wrote:
> "limey" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Becca wrote:
>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> The thing is, this was a teenager. And sadly, her parents didn't
>>>> teach her these basic rules. Mine did. I feel for the family.
>>>>
>>>> Jill
>>>
>>> Jill, I am glad you are cautious, this is probably why you have been
>>> safe. This girl's father was in law enforcement for 16 years, so I
>>> have a hard time believing that her father did not teach her to be
>>> careful. Parents teach kids a lot; do not take drugs, do not drink,
>>> do not smoke, wear your seatbelt, etc., but teenagers have a mind of
>>> their own.
>>> Becca
>>
>> I'm having a hard time with this young girl's death today. She had
>> just graduated, was bright and pretty and her life has been wrenched
>> away. At the same time, we have the news reporters concentrating
>> on spoiled Paris Hilton and her having served five days of her
>> original 45 days in prison "but will wear an ankle bracelet and be
>> under house arrest". Things seem on tilt, somehow.
>>
>> Dora
>
> Crazy! Would that all people in jail are moved to house arrest
> because they cannot eat the food and endangering their health.
>
> Spoiled or what..........
>
> elaine

I'm sure if I owned (or was heir to) a string of hotel chains I'd get to be
confined to my poor pitiful mansion with my servants, swimming pool, etc.
too. There shouldn't be such a double standard but there is.

Jill

In article >,
"Pete C." > wrote:

> "-L." wrote:
> >
> > Omelet wrote:
> > >
> > > I have to travel and shop alone the majority of the time.
> > >
> > > One more good reason to simply travel armed.
> > >
> > > If this girl had been, maybe she'd still be alive.
> >
> > And he might have just used her own gun on her, as well.
>
> That is always one of the anti-guners arguments, however the statistics
> simply don't back it up. Trained, licensed gun owners rarely ever have
> their own guns used on them and they also have much better hit rates
> than the police do.

Very true! And it's not hard to google for cites.
Most armed citizens practice more for one thing.
I shoot as much for recreation as anything else.
It's fun and relaxing and it's a personal challenge to become a better
marksman.

I can post target jpegs.

>
> >
> > >
> > > I've noted that most are too cowardly to address that issue.
> >
> > Nope, just don't agree with it what-so-ever. I'd more than happy if
> > they banned guns altogether. The US is uniquely ****ed up with
> > respect to gun laws.
>
> No, the anti-guners are uniquely ****ed up in their willful blindness to
> the real statistics that debunk their arguments. Ok, perhaps not
> uniquely since the same applies to those "Intelligent design" loons...

<lol>

I much prefer "Intelligent design" to Creationism and total denial of
Evolution :-)

It marries the two concepts nicely.
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Puester wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>> Becca wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The judge said Paris would not be allowed any alternative jail
>>> methods or electronic monitoring, but now she has been "reassigned"
>>> to house arrest. I should not comment, because I have no idea what
>>> really happened, but this makes it look like her attorneys handed
>>> the judge a big, fat contribution to his reelection campaign. I am
>>> not saying this happened, but this is what people will assume.
>>>
>>> It is nice to be rich. LOL I am only guessing, of course.
>>
>> Perhaps there was a matter of Hilton's personal safety. Prisons are
>> full of nasty women and they were probably planning on giving her a
>> little prison justice just for something to do.
>
>
> According to the news she was in a private cell, and even if she
> wasn't, why should she get preferential treatment to other felons?
> She was caught driving drunk more than once and drove again after her
> license was suspended. I wonder what the penalty would have been if
> she had killed someone while driving under the influence....
>
> gloria p

She wasn't even of *legal age* when she was arrested this time. What
happened to "gee, you have to be 21"? (Caveat: in most states, I guess,
although when I reached the age of majority in TN it was 18, then later 9,
then finally 21).

Jill

In article >,
Giusi > wrote:

> That is begging the entire subject, let alone the question. No, no
> place is Utopia. I did not say it was. But the violent crime rate in
> the US is a much higher percentage than most countries. Countries with
> wars and tribal fights aside, I believe the US is pretty much tops.

You just contradicted yourself.

If the people in Darfur had been armed, they would not be having the
humanitarian crisis that exists there at the moment.
--
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Dee Dee wrote:
> On Jun 7, 3:24 pm, "limey" > wrote:
> At the same time, we have the news reporters concentrating on
>> spoiled Paris Hilton and her having served five days of her original
>> 45 days in prison "but will wear an ankle bracelet and be under house
>> arrest". Things seem on tilt, somehow.
>>
>> Dora- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Counting time was actually 3 days & 3 hours. One can speculate what
> the medical problem is.
> De Dee

Maybe her breast implants couldn't take the heat

elaine wrote:
> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
>> In article .com>,
>> Sheldon > wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 7, 11:09?am, "Ms P" > wrote:
>>>> "Sheldon" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> ups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Police Make Arrest in Kansas Teen's Death
>>>>> Girl's Body Reportedly Found at a Missouri Lake
>>>>> By MARIA SUDEKUM FISHER
>>>>> AP
>>>>> OVERLAND PARK, Kan. (June 7) - Police arrested a man in the
>>>>> abduction and death of a teenager whose body was found Wednesday
>>>>> in a Missouri park four days after she disappeared from a Kansas
>>>>> store's parking lot.
>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>
>>>>> These kind of preditor crimes are so senseless, and are so TOTALLY
>>>>> preventable. Do parents these days have so much lower IQs than in
>>>>> the
>>>>> past? WTF happened to the buddy system??? When I was a kid
>>>>> parents just did not permit children to be outdoors alone, never!
>>>>> > This young
>>>>> girl could not have been nearly so popular as the media
>>>>> portrays or she'd not have been out to a mall all on her own.
>>>>> Sheldon
>>>>
>>>> She was 18. She graduated from high school two weeks ago. She
>>>> went to Target to buy a gift for a friend in *broad daylight.*
>>>
>>> Virtually all these kind of crimes occur in broad daylight... no one
>>> should go out galavanting alone, especially not a young girl.
>>
>> I noted that nowhere in this entire thread did anyone acknowledge the
>> fact that if she had a weapon and was trained to use it, she might
>> still be alive.
>>
>> The daughter of Masaad Ayoob was nearly assaulted once but had a gun
>> and had been trained to use it from at least as early of an age that
>> I was taught to use firearms. Her attacker turned and ran.
>>
>> He mentions it in his books more than once.
>>
>> Cellphones and 911 are nowhere near as fast as a bullet.
>
> So you're suggesting that kids should carry guns. You're kidding,
> right?
>
> e.

I don't know about where Omelet lives but around here unless you're in the
military you can't be licensed to carry a firearm at the age of 18. I'm not
about to suggest someone obtain a gun illegally and not go through formal
training (and continued training) about how to use one.

I understand OM is licensed to carry; she's obviously had some training.
This isn't the movies where a cop just hands a civilian a gun (let alone
drag one along with them) and says, "Don't be afraid to pull the trigger".
Real life doesn't work that way.

Jill

Scott wrote:
>> Cellphones and 911 are nowhere near as fast as a bullet.
>
> How about a surgically implanted GPS device. That will deter any
> would-be rapist.

Scott, why on earth would a GPS device deter a rapist (or murderer)? Unless
he was confined to house arrest who is to say he wouldn't just grab someone
on his way home from work or the grocery store? And you'd have to assume
he'd already been convicted of a particular crime. Do you know how long Ted
Bundy was out there before anything connected him to the rape/murders all
across the U.S.? He was even a counselor on a suicide hotline, fer cryin'
out loud! (Read Anne Rule's 'A Stranger Beside Me').

Your theories about legalizing prostitution to prevent rape (I'm not against
legalizing prostitution, but it's *not* a rape deterrent) and now this...
sheesh!

Jill

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>
>> Anyone carrying a knife or pepper spray will find themselve in
>> trouble fast!!!
>
> Pepper spray is outlawed too???
>
> Yeesh!
>
Sort of OB Food: Is it legal to carry an open bottle of Tabasco sauce (or
worse, Thai pepper sauce) in your hand?! Splashed in the eyes, I imagine it
would hurt a LOT.

Pete C. wrote:
> Giusi wrote:
>>
>> Omelet wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Giusi > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> I believe that the effort ought to be to make the streets safe for
>>>> ordinary people, not turn every ordinary person into Dirty Harry.
>>>> It can be done, because most of the world is safer than the US.
>>>> You'd have to ask yourself why.
>>>
>>> Since when?
>>>
>>> You have to make the criminals afraid to attack you.
>>
>> You have to make fewer criminal and violent people.
>
> Will never happen, they breed faster than the rest of us.

LOL! I'm sorry, it's politically incorrect for me to agree with that
statement.

In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> If you're packing a piece but spending lots of time on the road,
> you're putting your personal safety at peril far more than an
> individual who does neither of these. So, who is being more
> responsible?
>

That statement made absolutely no sense... ;-)
I have to drive to work and live in general.

Protecting myself is a choice.
Driving isn't.
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In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> We sure as hell don't throw them into a situation where they will be
> subjected to vicious beatings and possible death.

And that was a serious consideration in this case.

Jail violence is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.
It's widely ignored and that is wrong.

We are not supposed to be a third world country, but our jails may as
well be. :-(
--
Peace, Om

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On Jun 8, 3:20 pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
> "Pete C." > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "-L." wrote:
>
> > > Omelet wrote:
>
> > > > I have to travel and shop alone the majority of the time.
>
> > > > One more good reason to simply travel armed.
>
> > > > If this girl had been, maybe she'd still be alive.
>
> > > And he might have just used her own gun on her, as well.
>
> > That is always one of the anti-guners arguments, however the statistics
> > simply don't back it up. Trained, licensed gun owners rarely ever have
> > their own guns used on them and they also have much better hit rates
> > than the police do.
>
> Very true! And it's not hard to google for cites.
> Most armed citizens practice more for one thing.
> I shoot as much for recreation as anything else.
> It's fun and relaxing and it's a personal challenge to become a better
> marksman.
>
> I can post target jpegs.
>
>
>
> > > > I've noted that most are too cowardly to address that issue.
>
> > > Nope, just don't agree with it what-so-ever. I'd more than happy if
> > > they banned guns altogether. The US is uniquely ****ed up with
> > > respect to gun laws.
>
> > No, the anti-guners are uniquely ****ed up in their willful blindness to
> > the real statistics that debunk their arguments. Ok, perhaps not
> > uniquely since the same applies to those "Intelligent design" loons...
>
> <lol>
>
> I much prefer "Intelligent design" to Creationism and total denial of
> Evolution :-)
>
> It marries the two concepts nicely.

As long as you consider a marriage between a human and an aardvark to
be nice.

> --
> Peace, Om

--Bryan