What I would like to do is have a yeast plant started from the grain
fermenting naturally, so as to avoid the fast acting yeast which appears to
give me indigestion

Then in theory when I want some bread I wouls just take some of the plant
and add that to basic ingredients, program the bread machine and have bread.
Is this possible?

I've looked and just can't seem to find any recipes online for sour dough
using a bread machine. I guess because traditionally it takes days to
rises, hence my idea of using a plant. But I don't really know that much
about it - would a plant not work from natural yeasts? And what would I
feed it to keep it going if it did?

I plan on using whole grain flour as much as possible but I'll mix it with
plain if I have to, as dh really doesn't like the heavier breads.

And yes I tried just using baking powder to get it to rise - was more like
soggy cake.

Any bread experts out there?

linda wrote:
> What I would like to do is have a yeast plant started from the grain
> fermenting naturally, so as to avoid the fast acting yeast which appears to
> give me indigestion
>
> Then in theory when I want some bread I wouls just take some of the plant
> and add that to basic ingredients, program the bread machine and have bread.
> Is this possible?
>
> I've looked and just can't seem to find any recipes online for sour dough
> using a bread machine. I guess because traditionally it takes days to
> rises, hence my idea of using a plant. But I don't really know that much
> about it - would a plant not work from natural yeasts? And what would I
> feed it to keep it going if it did?
>
> I plan on using whole grain flour as much as possible but I'll mix it with
> plain if I have to, as dh really doesn't like the heavier breads.
>
> And yes I tried just using baking powder to get it to rise - was more like
> soggy cake.
>
> Any bread experts out there?
>
>
>
You might be better off asking on rec.food.sourdough; someone there
would surely be able to help.

On 2007-06-28, linda wrote:

> What I would like to do is have a yeast plant started from the grain
> fermenting naturally, so as to avoid the fast acting yeast which appears to
> give me indigestion
>
> Then in theory when I want some bread I wouls just take some of the plant
> and add that to basic ingredients, program the bread machine and have bread.
> Is this possible?

I speculate that you'll have difficulty getting good results this way
because bread-machines' programmes are designed for fast-acting (also
sold as "bread machine") yeast. A slow-acting yeast won't rise enough
in the allocated time during the programme.

I find the idea interesting, however --- please post any experimental
results!


--
Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends.

linda wrote:
>
> What I would like to do is have a yeast plant started from the grain
> fermenting naturally, so as to avoid the fast acting yeast which appears to
> give me indigestion
>
> Then in theory when I want some bread I wouls just take some of the plant
> and add that to basic ingredients, program the bread machine and have bread.
> Is this possible?

That would only work if your wild yeasts were fast-acting, which
typically they don't seem to be. Otherwise the soured dough (after the
first rising) can be baked in a bread machine. There are a couple of
books around that deal with this.

>
> I've looked and just can't seem to find any recipes online for sour dough
> using a bread machine. I guess because traditionally it takes days to
> rises, hence my idea of using a plant. But I don't really know that much
> about it - would a plant not work from natural yeasts? And what would I
> feed it to keep it going if it did?
>
> I plan on using whole grain flour as much as possible but I'll mix it with
> plain if I have to, as dh really doesn't like the heavier breads.
>
> And yes I tried just using baking powder to get it to rise - was more like
> soggy cake.
>
> Any bread experts out there?

"linda" > wrote in message
...
> What I would like to do is have a yeast plant started from the grain
> fermenting naturally, so as to avoid the fast acting yeast which appears
> to give me indigestion
>
> Then in theory when I want some bread I wouls just take some of the plant
> and add that to basic ingredients, program the bread machine and have
> bread. Is this possible?
>
> I've looked and just can't seem to find any recipes online for sour dough
> using a bread machine. I guess because traditionally it takes days to
> rises, hence my idea of using a plant. But I don't really know that much
> about it - would a plant not work from natural yeasts? And what would I
> feed it to keep it going if it did?
>
> I plan on using whole grain flour as much as possible but I'll mix it with
> plain if I have to, as dh really doesn't like the heavier breads.
>
> And yes I tried just using baking powder to get it to rise - was more
> like soggy cake.
>
> Any bread experts out there?
>
>
To make a sourdough starter is a long many day ritual. You wouldn't want to
do your final rise in a bread machine with it's very short rise time.
You can, however, use the bread machine to make a preferment, like poolish
or biga, and add that to the dough with enough yeast to rise in the time
allowed by the machine.
If you're going to go to this much effort, it's really better to use the
machine only as a mixer and make the bread manually. Look at Peter
Reinhart's "Breadmaker's Apprentice". It's a breadmaker's bible.

Kent

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
>
> "linda" > wrote in message
> ...
>> What I would like to do is have a yeast plant started from the grain
>> fermenting naturally, so as to avoid the fast acting yeast which appears
>> to give me indigestion
>>
>> Then in theory when I want some bread I wouls just take some of the plant
>> and add that to basic ingredients, program the bread machine and have
>> bread. Is this possible?
>>
>> I've looked and just can't seem to find any recipes online for sour dough
>> using a bread machine. I guess because traditionally it takes days to
>> rises, hence my idea of using a plant. But I don't really know that
>> much about it - would a plant not work from natural yeasts? And what
>> would I feed it to keep it going if it did?
>>
>> I plan on using whole grain flour as much as possible but I'll mix it
>> with plain if I have to, as dh really doesn't like the heavier breads.
>>
>> And yes I tried just using baking powder to get it to rise - was more
>> like soggy cake.
>>
>> Any bread experts out there?
>>
>>
> To make a sourdough starter is a long many day ritual. You wouldn't want
> to do your final rise in a bread machine with it's very short rise time.
> You can, however, use the bread machine to make a preferment, like poolish
> or biga, and add that to the dough with enough yeast to rise in the time
> allowed by the machine.
> If you're going to go to this much effort, it's really better to use the
> machine only as a mixer and make the bread manually. Look at Peter
> Reinhart's "Breadmaker's Apprentice". It's a breadmaker's bible.
>
> Kent
>
Actually be honest we don't currently have an oven, so my breadmaker is my
only option. It's a long story and hopefully we'll have one again in a
couple of months.
(You'd be surprised how many things you can make in an electric frying pan
though!!)

linda wrote:

>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >"linda" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > What I would like to do is have a yeast plant started from the
> > > grain fermenting naturally, so as to avoid the fast acting yeast
> > > which appears to give me indigestion
> > >
> > > Then in theory when I want some bread I wouls just take some of
> > > the plant and add that to basic ingredients, program the bread
> > > machine and have bread. Is this possible?
> > >
> > > I've looked and just can't seem to find any recipes online for
> > > sour dough using a bread machine. I guess because
> > > traditionally it takes days to rises, hence my idea of using a
> > > plant. But I don't really know that much about it - would a
> > > plant not work from natural yeasts? And what would I feed it to
> > > keep it going if it did?
> > >
> > > I plan on using whole grain flour as much as possible but I'll
> > > mix it with plain if I have to, as dh really doesn't like the
> > > heavier breads.
> > >
> > > And yes I tried just using baking powder to get it to rise - was
> > > more like soggy cake.
> > >
> > > Any bread experts out there?
> > >
> > >
> > To make a sourdough starter is a long many day ritual. You wouldn't
> > want to do your final rise in a bread machine with it's very short
> > rise time. You can, however, use the bread machine to make a
> > preferment, like poolish or biga, and add that to the dough with
> > enough yeast to rise in the time allowed by the machine. If
> > you're going to go to this much effort, it's really better to use
> > the machine only as a mixer and make the bread manually. Look at
> > Peter Reinhart's "Breadmaker's Apprentice". It's a breadmaker's
> > bible.
> >
> > Kent
> >
> Actually be honest we don't currently have an oven, so my breadmaker
> is my only option. It's a long story and hopefully we'll have one
> again in a couple of months. (You'd be surprised how many things you
> can make in an electric frying pan though!!)

Is there a way that you can just do a bake cycle on your bread machine?

--
-Gina in Italy

Favorite phrase of the day: Messiah-envy

>
> Is there a way that you can just do a bake cycle on your bread machine?
>
> --
Yes for sure - I can program it how I want - ie make the rising times 0
minutes etc so it just goes straight through them. I just figured it would
be easy to put it in the machine for the last stage and set the rising to
about 3 hours or something and then bake it. The temperature is the only
thing I can't change.

"linda" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "linda" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> What I would like to do is have a yeast plant started
>>> from the grain
>>> fermenting naturally, so as to avoid the fast acting
>>> yeast which appears
>>> to give me indigestion
>>>
>>> Then in theory when I want some bread I wouls just take
>>> some of the plant
>>> and add that to basic ingredients, program the bread
>>> machine and have
>>> bread. Is this possible?
>>>
>>> I've looked and just can't seem to find any recipes
>>> online for sour dough
>>> using a bread machine. I guess because traditionally
>>> it takes days to
>>> rises, hence my idea of using a plant. But I don't
>>> really know that
>>> much about it - would a plant not work from natural
>>> yeasts? And what
>>> would I feed it to keep it going if it did?
>>>
>>> I plan on using whole grain flour as much as possible
>>> but I'll mix it
>>> with plain if I have to, as dh really doesn't like the
>>> heavier breads.
>>>
>>> And yes I tried just using baking powder to get it to
>>> rise - was more
>>> like soggy cake.
>>>
>>> Any bread experts out there?
>>>
>>>
>> To make a sourdough starter is a long many day ritual.
>> You wouldn't want
>> to do your final rise in a bread machine with it's very
>> short rise time.
>> You can, however, use the bread machine to make a
>> preferment, like poolish
>> or biga, and add that to the dough with enough yeast to
>> rise in the time
>> allowed by the machine.
>> If you're going to go to this much effort, it's really
>> better to use the
>> machine only as a mixer and make the bread manually. Look
>> at Peter
>> Reinhart's "Breadmaker's Apprentice". It's a breadmaker's
>> bible.
>>
>> Kent
>>
> Actually be honest we don't currently have an oven, so my
> breadmaker is my
> only option. It's a long story and hopefully we'll have
> one again in a
> couple of months.
> (You'd be surprised how many things you can make in an
> electric frying pan
> though!!)
>
>
Linda, I haven't done this, but I would try the following.
Make a poolish, or preferment with the recipe below. Let it
ferment 6-8 hours, or overnight in the frig until it bubbles
and falls back on itself.As you see you use a very small
amount of yeast for a very slow ferment.

Poolish
1 cup flour
1 cup water
1/4 teaspoon instant yeast
Then make your final dough with the poolish and enough yeast
to give you a fast enough rise to fit the breadmaker cycle.
For your final dough use the the above poolish and the
following. You may have to change the amounts so this will
all fit in your machine. Just keep the flour/water ratio as
you want it in the final bread.
1 pound flour
10-12 ounces water
2-3 teaspoon instant yeast; you may have to play with this.
2 teaspoons salt
all of the poolish
You'll find the long slow ferment of the poolish will give
flavor to your bread. It's a long way from sourdough, but it
tastes good, and it's a good place to start. Good Luck with
your baking.
Kent

"Kent" > wrote in message . ..

"linda" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "linda" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> What I would like to do is have a yeast plant started from the grain
>>> fermenting naturally, so as to avoid the fast acting yeast which appears
>>> to give me indigestion
>>>
>>> Then in theory when I want some bread I wouls just take some of the plant
>>> and add that to basic ingredients, program the bread machine and have
>>> bread. Is this possible?
>>>
>>> I've looked and just can't seem to find any recipes online for sour dough
>>> using a bread machine. I guess because traditionally it takes days to
>>> rises, hence my idea of using a plant. But I don't really know that
>>> much about it - would a plant not work from natural yeasts? And what
>>> would I feed it to keep it going if it did?
>>>
>>> I plan on using whole grain flour as much as possible but I'll mix it
>>> with plain if I have to, as dh really doesn't like the heavier breads.
>>>
>>> And yes I tried just using baking powder to get it to rise - was more
>>> like soggy cake.
>>>
>>> Any bread experts out there?
>>>
>>>
>> To make a sourdough starter is a long many day ritual. You wouldn't want
>> to do your final rise in a bread machine with it's very short rise time.
>> You can, however, use the bread machine to make a preferment, like poolish
>> or biga, and add that to the dough with enough yeast to rise in the time
>> allowed by the machine.
>> If you're going to go to this much effort, it's really better to use the
>> machine only as a mixer and make the bread manually. Look at Peter
>> Reinhart's "Breadmaker's Apprentice". It's a breadmaker's bible.
>>
>> Kent
>>
> Actually be honest we don't currently have an oven, so my breadmaker is my
> only option. It's a long story and hopefully we'll have one again in a
> couple of months.
> (You'd be surprised how many things you can make in an electric frying pan
> though!!)
>
>
Linda, I haven't done this, but I would try the following. Make a poolish, or preferment with the recipe below. Let it ferment 6-8 hours, or overnight in the frig until it bubbles and falls back on itself.As you see you use a very small amount of yeast for a very slow ferment.

Poolish
1 cup flour
1 cup water
1/4 teaspoon instant yeast
Then make your final dough with the poolish and enough yeast to give you a fast enough rise to fit the breadmaker cycle. For your final dough use the the above poolish and the following. You may have to change the amounts so this will all fit in your machine. Just keep the flour/water ratio as you want it in the final bread.
1 pound flour
10-12 ounces water
2-3 teaspoon instant yeast; you may have to play with this.
2 teaspoons salt
all of the poolish
You'll find the long slow ferment of the poolish will give flavor to your bread. It's a long way from sourdough, but it tastes good, and it's a good place to start. Good Luck with your baking.
Kent

Thanks Kent, will give it a go

I also found this which I can't use currently as I don't have an oven, but for anyone else who is interested - http://www.sourdoughbreads.com/JoeWa...rchProject.htm

On Jun 29, 8:24 pm, "Kent" > wrote:
> "linda" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> "linda" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> What I would like to do is have a yeast plant started
> >>> from the grain
> >>> fermenting naturally, so as to avoid the fast acting
> >>> yeast which appears
> >>> to give me indigestion
>
> >>> Then in theory when I want some bread I wouls just take
> >>> some of the plant
> >>> and add that to basic ingredients, program the bread
> >>> machine and have
> >>> bread. Is this possible?
>
> >>> I've looked and just can't seem to find any recipes
> >>> online for sour dough
> >>> using a bread machine. I guess because traditionally
> >>> it takes days to
> >>> rises, hence my idea of using a plant. But I don't
> >>> really know that
> >>> much about it - would a plant not work from natural
> >>> yeasts? And what
> >>> would I feed it to keep it going if it did?
>
> >>> I plan on using whole grain flour as much as possible
> >>> but I'll mix it
> >>> with plain if I have to, as dh really doesn't like the
> >>> heavier breads.
>
> >>> And yes I tried just using baking powder to get it to
> >>> rise - was more
> >>> like soggy cake.
>
> >>> Any bread experts out there?
>
> >> To make a sourdough starter is a long many day ritual.
> >> You wouldn't want
> >> to do your final rise in a bread machine with it's very
> >> short rise time.
> >> You can, however, use the bread machine to make a
> >> preferment, like poolish
> >> or biga, and add that to the dough with enough yeast to
> >> rise in the time
> >> allowed by the machine.
> >> If you're going to go to this much effort, it's really
> >> better to use the
> >> machine only as a mixer and make the bread manually. Look
> >> at Peter
> >> Reinhart's "Breadmaker's Apprentice". It's a breadmaker's
> >> bible.
>
> >> Kent
>
> > Actually be honest we don't currently have an oven, so my
> > breadmaker is my
> > only option. It's a long story and hopefully we'll have
> > one again in a
> > couple of months.
> > (You'd be surprised how many things you can make in an
> > electric frying pan
> > though!!)
>
> Linda, I haven't done this, but I would try the following.
> Make a poolish, or preferment with the recipe below. Let it
> ferment 6-8 hours, or overnight in the frig until it bubbles
> and falls back on itself.As you see you use a very small
> amount of yeast for a very slow ferment.
>
> Poolish
> 1 cup flour
> 1 cup water
> 1/4 teaspoon instant yeast
> Then make your final dough with the poolish and enough yeast
> to give you a fast enough rise to fit the breadmaker cycle.
> For your final dough use the the above poolish and the
> following. You may have to change the amounts so this will
> all fit in your machine. Just keep the flour/water ratio as
> you want it in the final bread.
> 1 pound flour
> 10-12 ounces water
> 2-3 teaspoon instant yeast; you may have to play with this.
> 2 teaspoons salt
> all of the poolish
> You'll find the long slow ferment of the poolish will give
> flavor to your bread. It's a long way from sourdough, but it
> tastes good, and it's a good place to start. Good Luck with
> your baking.
> Kent- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Very good advice, IMO.

I would thnk for this amount of flour and a polish with 1/4 tsp yeast,
that no more than 1-1/2 teaspoons (1/2 tablespoon) would be
necessary. Particularly be careful if you have a 1-1/2 qt. breadmaker
instead of a 2 qt. because it might raise too high.
Dee Dee

"linda" > wrote in message
...

"Kent" > wrote in message
. ..

"linda" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "linda" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> What I would like to do is have a yeast plant started
>>> from the grain
>>> fermenting naturally, so as to avoid the fast acting
>>> yeast which appears
>>> to give me indigestion
>>>
>>> Then in theory when I want some bread I wouls just take
>>> some of the plant
>>> and add that to basic ingredients, program the bread
>>> machine and have
>>> bread. Is this possible?
>>>
>>> I've looked and just can't seem to find any recipes
>>> online for sour dough
>>> using a bread machine. I guess because traditionally
>>> it takes days to
>>> rises, hence my idea of using a plant. But I don't
>>> really know that
>>> much about it - would a plant not work from natural
>>> yeasts? And what
>>> would I feed it to keep it going if it did?
>>>
>>> I plan on using whole grain flour as much as possible
>>> but I'll mix it
>>> with plain if I have to, as dh really doesn't like the
>>> heavier breads.
>>>
>>> And yes I tried just using baking powder to get it to
>>> rise - was more
>>> like soggy cake.
>>>
>>> Any bread experts out there?
>>>
>>>
>> To make a sourdough starter is a long many day ritual.
>> You wouldn't want
>> to do your final rise in a bread machine with it's very
>> short rise time.
>> You can, however, use the bread machine to make a
>> preferment, like poolish
>> or biga, and add that to the dough with enough yeast to
>> rise in the time
>> allowed by the machine.
>> If you're going to go to this much effort, it's really
>> better to use the
>> machine only as a mixer and make the bread manually. Look
>> at Peter
>> Reinhart's "Breadmaker's Apprentice". It's a breadmaker's
>> bible.
>>
>> Kent
>>
> Actually be honest we don't currently have an oven, so my
> breadmaker is my
> only option. It's a long story and hopefully we'll have
> one again in a
> couple of months.
> (You'd be surprised how many things you can make in an
> electric frying pan
> though!!)
>
>
Linda, I haven't done this, but I would try the following.
Make a poolish, or preferment with the recipe below. Let it
ferment 6-8 hours, or overnight in the frig until it bubbles
and falls back on itself.As you see you use a very small
amount of yeast for a very slow ferment.

Poolish
1 cup flour
1 cup water
1/4 teaspoon instant yeast
Then make your final dough with the poolish and enough yeast
to give you a fast enough rise to fit the breadmaker cycle.
For your final dough use the the above poolish and the
following. You may have to change the amounts so this will
all fit in your machine. Just keep the flour/water ratio as
you want it in the final bread.
1 pound flour
10-12 ounces water
2-3 teaspoon instant yeast; you may have to play with this.
2 teaspoons salt
all of the poolish
You'll find the long slow ferment of the poolish will give
flavor to your bread. It's a long way from sourdough, but it
tastes good, and it's a good place to start. Good Luck with
your baking.
Kent

Thanks Kent, will give it a go

I also found this which I can't use currently as I don't
have an oven, but for anyone else who is interested -
http://www.sourdoughbreads.com/JoeWa...rchProject.htm
>
>
Interesting site, though he's chasing our hard earned
dollars a bit too aggressively.
If I was going to try to make sourdough I would probably
start with a product like this:

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/...FQXUhgodPhQAhw

I, like many, use King Arthur Flour almost religiously.

Kent