As a pre-teen I was packed off to YMCA summer camp for a month every
summer, 4 years in a row.

Pioneer, Junior, Senior, Senior groups.

The mess hall was on top of a hill. From any group to it was either a 200-
step wooden staircase or a nice long hill climb. You got there almost
exhausted but HUNGRY!

Of course there was the wait. About 400 kids, packed tight waiting for the
doors to open and then race to tables like it was the last meal of their
lives.

We rotated waiter (I don't remember the actual title) duties for our
tables. You'd have to run for "bug juice" and bowls of mac and cheese slop,
etc. and clear the tableware to the kitchen after the meal. Your table got
inspected and you were OK'd to "get lost."

Three times a day!!! No wonder we were skinny kids.

I don't recall a food fight ever.

The only bright spot at meals was for that briefest time we got to sit and
eat with the girls! Our reason for living!!!

Then after dinner, we got to go to the canteen to buy a candy bar or two
with tickets that were issued out like "pay for slave labor," as our
parents had cleverly dictated.

Then back to the tents for the end of the day "shut up and play nice."
Gameboy was decades in the future.

Made a lot of lanyard things in those four years. The highlight was getting
to watch them gas a squirrel to death with ether in the Nature hut.

My original plan to escape was easily foiled by the fact that the lake
didn't have an outlet for me to canoe out and escape the drudgeries of the
"buddy system," 200 stairs to slop, bonfire sing-alongs and 1,001
tetherball games.

Well, that's how it went down for this camper, iirc.

I wish I had kids. I'd be sending them off to summer camp right about
now!!!

Andy

"Andy" <q> wrote in message ...
> As a pre-teen I was packed off to YMCA summer camp for a month every
> summer, 4 years in a row.
>
> Pioneer, Junior, Senior, Senior groups.
>
> The mess hall was on top of a hill. From any group to it was either a 200-
> step wooden staircase or a nice long hill climb. You got there almost
> exhausted but HUNGRY!
>
> Of course there was the wait. About 400 kids, packed tight waiting for the
> doors to open and then race to tables like it was the last meal of their
> lives.
>
> We rotated waiter (I don't remember the actual title) duties for our
> tables. You'd have to run for "bug juice" and bowls of mac and cheese
> slop,
> etc. and clear the tableware to the kitchen after the meal. Your table got
> inspected and you were OK'd to "get lost."
>
> Three times a day!!! No wonder we were skinny kids.
>
> I don't recall a food fight ever.
>
> The only bright spot at meals was for that briefest time we got to sit and
> eat with the girls! Our reason for living!!!
>
> Then after dinner, we got to go to the canteen to buy a candy bar or two
> with tickets that were issued out like "pay for slave labor," as our
> parents had cleverly dictated.
>
> Then back to the tents for the end of the day "shut up and play nice."
> Gameboy was decades in the future.
>
> Made a lot of lanyard things in those four years. The highlight was
> getting
> to watch them gas a squirrel to death with ether in the Nature hut.
>
> My original plan to escape was easily foiled by the fact that the lake
> didn't have an outlet for me to canoe out and escape the drudgeries of the
> "buddy system," 200 stairs to slop, bonfire sing-alongs and 1,001
> tetherball games.
>
> Well, that's how it went down for this camper, iirc.
>
> I wish I had kids. I'd be sending them off to summer camp right about
> now!!!
>
> Andy
>

Nah, you wouldn't like it now. Having worked a summer camp kitchen a few
years ago and seeing the new rules/regulations set up by feds/state/local
governments, it ain't what it used to be. If sweetie wants to sleep in, you
are violating his rights to do so, if he doesn't like the chow, you have to
make special just for sweetie, if he doesn't like dirt, you have to have an
air conditioned nature/craft area and an enclosed private shower/bath
facility (what ever happened to a privy), if he doesn't want to play with
the others, we have to have an opt out area just for sweetie. No wonder
today's kids are a bunch of weenies. We tell them of the fun we had in camp
then regulate the hell out of it. No thank you.
-ginny

Andy wrote:
>
> As a pre-teen I was packed off to YMCA summer camp for a month every
> summer, 4 years in a row.

I remember it well (albeit vaguely), the weeks at summer camp as a kid!
All six of them! I and my younger brother were shipped off to a
neighboring state to languish at camp. Alas, one of those summers I was
banished to a teeny room (closet???) of my very own to sleep in
isolation at night due to outlandish snoring (was sleep apnea a
recognized medical condition back then?).

The food was always horrible -- thank goodness I remember none of that!
Of course, it's hard to muck up s'mores And thank goodness for that
canteen - it was my salvation! My all-time favorite part of summer camp
was horseback riding, which I'd never do nowadays (I now know better!).
Swimming was my next favorite activity, but I always dreaded that first
shock of very cold water in the pool when I dove in head-first to get it
(the shock) all over with (brrrrr, almost gives me goose-bumps thinking
about it! <g>).

I understand the "camp" where I summered a few years many decades ago in
Hendersonville, NC is now a resort- or spa-kind-of-place with cottages
(the former campers' cabins) with a lobby and formal dining room. I bet
those cabins have a/c now! I know I didn't - hehehe. And, I'm sure the
'mess hall' is no longer a screened in pavilion, and those dining tables
and benches (nothing but picnic tables) have long disappeared. Hm... I
wonder if they have room service <g>.

My DS went to camp every summer through high school for six to eight
weeks ---- his father's home many states away <G>. The best part about
DS's "summer camp" was the cost - hardly anything <vbg>.

Sky, who appreciates the empty nest

On Jul 6, 8:53 am, "Virginia Tadrzynski" > wrote:
> "Andy" <q> wrote in ...
> > As a pre-teen I was packed off to YMCA summer camp for a month every
> > summer, 4 years in a row.
>
> > Pioneer, Junior, Senior, Senior groups.
>
> > The mess hall was on top of a hill. From any group to it was either a 200-
> > step wooden staircase or a nice long hill climb. You got there almost
> > exhausted but HUNGRY!
>
> > Of course there was the wait. About 400 kids, packed tight waiting for the
> > doors to open and then race to tables like it was the last meal of their
> > lives.
>
> > We rotated waiter (I don't remember the actual title) duties for our
> > tables. You'd have to run for "bug juice" and bowls of mac and cheese
> > slop,
> > etc. and clear the tableware to the kitchen after the meal. Your table got
> > inspected and you were OK'd to "get lost."
>
> > Three times a day!!! No wonder we were skinny kids.
>
> > I don't recall a food fight ever.
>
> > The only bright spot at meals was for that briefest time we got to sit and
> > eat with the girls! Our reason for living!!!
>
> > Then after dinner, we got to go to the canteen to buy a candy bar or two
> > with tickets that were issued out like "pay for slave labor," as our
> > parents had cleverly dictated.
>
> > Then back to the tents for the end of the day "shut up and play nice."
> > Gameboy was decades in the future.
>
> > Made a lot of lanyard things in those four years. The highlight was
> > getting
> > to watch them gas a squirrel to death with ether in the Nature hut.
>
> > My original plan to escape was easily foiled by the fact that the lake
> > didn't have an outlet for me to canoe out and escape the drudgeries of the
> > "buddy system," 200 stairs to slop, bonfire sing-alongs and 1,001
> > tetherball games.
>
> > Well, that's how it went down for this camper, iirc.
>
> > I wish I had kids. I'd be sending them off to summer camp right about
> > now!!!
>
> > Andy
>
> Nah, you wouldn't like it now. Having worked a summer camp kitchen a few
> years ago and seeing the new rules/regulations set up by feds/state/local
> governments, it ain't what it used to be. If sweetie wants to sleep in, you
> are violating his rights to do so, if he doesn't like the chow, you have to
> make special just for sweetie, if he doesn't like dirt, you have to have an
> air conditioned nature/craft area and an enclosed private shower/bath
> facility (what ever happened to a privy), if he doesn't want to play with
> the others, we have to have an opt out area just for sweetie. No wonder
> today's kids are a bunch of weenies. We tell them of the fun we had in camp
> then regulate the hell out of it. No thank you.

The "feds" don't regulate summer camps. You find state laws that
dictate the above (other than the restroom facilities, which is a
public health issue), and post them if you expect anyone to believe
you.

Also, you wrote, "We tell them of the fun we had in camp..."

I got the impression that Andy thought it sucked. I would have. You
can have the bad food and all the rest. It sounds like you resent
"sweetie." You got treated like a piece of shit, and you'll never get
to go back to re-live your childhood. It isn't FAIR!

I don't want my "sweetie" treated in a way that I would have hated as
a kid. We use our limited resources to have him in the best school
and best "summer camp," although it is a come home at night "camp."

Perhaps you're not cut out for a job where you have to be nice to
children.
Now, go shit in your privy, since you seem to like the idea so much.

> -ginny

--Bryan

Skyhooks wrote:
> Andy wrote:
>> As a pre-teen I was packed off to YMCA summer camp for a month every
>> summer, 4 years in a row.
>
> I remember it well (albeit vaguely), the weeks at summer camp as a kid!
> All six of them! I and my younger brother were shipped off to a
> neighboring state to languish at camp. Alas, one of those summers I was
> banished to a teeny room (closet???) of my very own to sleep in
> isolation at night due to outlandish snoring (was sleep apnea a
> recognized medical condition back then?).
>
Adenoids, perhaps? Kids shouldn't be snoring.
Not everyone who snores has sleep apnea...but overweight adults are
obviously more prone to it.

"Bobo Bonobo®" > wrote in message
s.com...
> On Jul 6, 8:53 am, "Virginia Tadrzynski" > wrote:
>> "Andy" <q> wrote in ...
>> > As a pre-teen I was packed off to YMCA summer camp for a month every
>> > summer, 4 years in a row.
>>
>> > Pioneer, Junior, Senior, Senior groups.
>>
>> > The mess hall was on top of a hill. From any group to it was either a
>> > 200-
>> > step wooden staircase or a nice long hill climb. You got there almost
>> > exhausted but HUNGRY!
>>
>> > Of course there was the wait. About 400 kids, packed tight waiting for
>> > the
>> > doors to open and then race to tables like it was the last meal of
>> > their
>> > lives.
>>
>> > We rotated waiter (I don't remember the actual title) duties for our
>> > tables. You'd have to run for "bug juice" and bowls of mac and cheese
>> > slop,
>> > etc. and clear the tableware to the kitchen after the meal. Your table
>> > got
>> > inspected and you were OK'd to "get lost."
>>
>> > Three times a day!!! No wonder we were skinny kids.
>>
>> > I don't recall a food fight ever.
>>
>> > The only bright spot at meals was for that briefest time we got to sit
>> > and
>> > eat with the girls! Our reason for living!!!
>>
>> > Then after dinner, we got to go to the canteen to buy a candy bar or
>> > two
>> > with tickets that were issued out like "pay for slave labor," as our
>> > parents had cleverly dictated.
>>
>> > Then back to the tents for the end of the day "shut up and play nice."
>> > Gameboy was decades in the future.
>>
>> > Made a lot of lanyard things in those four years. The highlight was
>> > getting
>> > to watch them gas a squirrel to death with ether in the Nature hut.
>>
>> > My original plan to escape was easily foiled by the fact that the lake
>> > didn't have an outlet for me to canoe out and escape the drudgeries of
>> > the
>> > "buddy system," 200 stairs to slop, bonfire sing-alongs and 1,001
>> > tetherball games.
>>
>> > Well, that's how it went down for this camper, iirc.
>>
>> > I wish I had kids. I'd be sending them off to summer camp right about
>> > now!!!
>>
>> > Andy
>>
>> Nah, you wouldn't like it now. Having worked a summer camp kitchen a few
>> years ago and seeing the new rules/regulations set up by feds/state/local
>> governments, it ain't what it used to be. If sweetie wants to sleep in,
>> you
>> are violating his rights to do so, if he doesn't like the chow, you have
>> to
>> make special just for sweetie, if he doesn't like dirt, you have to have
>> an
>> air conditioned nature/craft area and an enclosed private shower/bath
>> facility (what ever happened to a privy), if he doesn't want to play with
>> the others, we have to have an opt out area just for sweetie. No wonder
>> today's kids are a bunch of weenies. We tell them of the fun we had in
>> camp
>> then regulate the hell out of it. No thank you.
>
> The "feds" don't regulate summer camps. You find state laws that
> dictate the above (other than the restroom facilities, which is a
> public health issue), and post them if you expect anyone to believe
> you.
>
> Also, you wrote, "We tell them of the fun we had in camp..."
>
> I got the impression that Andy thought it sucked. I would have. You
> can have the bad food and all the rest. It sounds like you resent
> "sweetie." You got treated like a piece of shit, and you'll never get
> to go back to re-live your childhood. It isn't FAIR!
>
> I don't want my "sweetie" treated in a way that I would have hated as
> a kid. We use our limited resources to have him in the best school
> and best "summer camp," although it is a come home at night "camp."
>
> Perhaps you're not cut out for a job where you have to be nice to
> children.
> Now, go shit in your privy, since you seem to like the idea so much.
>
>> -ginny
>
> --Bryan
>


When they are run by a national organization, yes the feds do step in. As
far as 'sweetie' is concerned, I like NO individual, child or not, who feels
entitiled to just snap their fingers and have every wish granted, they
should stay home and have the au pair cater to them, and no, I do not
tolerate being spoken to by a child in a manner no person should be spoken
to........my children were taught better. And, if you go into the woods,
expect to live like you went into the woods, not the Hilton Chain....

On Jul 6, 9:51 am, "Virginia Tadrzynski" > wrote:
> "Bobo Bonobo®" > wrote in message
>
> s.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jul 6, 8:53 am, "Virginia Tadrzynski" > wrote:
> >> "Andy" <q> wrote in ...
> >> > As a pre-teen I was packed off to YMCA summer camp for a month every
> >> > summer, 4 years in a row.
>
> >> > Pioneer, Junior, Senior, Senior groups.
>
> >> > The mess hall was on top of a hill. From any group to it was either a
> >> > 200-
> >> > step wooden staircase or a nice long hill climb. You got there almost
> >> > exhausted but HUNGRY!
>
> >> > Of course there was the wait. About 400 kids, packed tight waiting for
> >> > the
> >> > doors to open and then race to tables like it was the last meal of
> >> > their
> >> > lives.
>
> >> > We rotated waiter (I don't remember the actual title) duties for our
> >> > tables. You'd have to run for "bug juice" and bowls of mac and cheese
> >> > slop,
> >> > etc. and clear the tableware to the kitchen after the meal. Your table
> >> > got
> >> > inspected and you were OK'd to "get lost."
>
> >> > Three times a day!!! No wonder we were skinny kids.
>
> >> > I don't recall a food fight ever.
>
> >> > The only bright spot at meals was for that briefest time we got to sit
> >> > and
> >> > eat with the girls! Our reason for living!!!
>
> >> > Then after dinner, we got to go to the canteen to buy a candy bar or
> >> > two
> >> > with tickets that were issued out like "pay for slave labor," as our
> >> > parents had cleverly dictated.
>
> >> > Then back to the tents for the end of the day "shut up and play nice.."
> >> > Gameboy was decades in the future.
>
> >> > Made a lot of lanyard things in those four years. The highlight was
> >> > getting
> >> > to watch them gas a squirrel to death with ether in the Nature hut.
>
> >> > My original plan to escape was easily foiled by the fact that the lake
> >> > didn't have an outlet for me to canoe out and escape the drudgeries of
> >> > the
> >> > "buddy system," 200 stairs to slop, bonfire sing-alongs and 1,001
> >> > tetherball games.
>
> >> > Well, that's how it went down for this camper, iirc.
>
> >> > I wish I had kids. I'd be sending them off to summer camp right about
> >> > now!!!
>
> >> > Andy
>
> >> Nah, you wouldn't like it now. Having worked a summer camp kitchen a few
> >> years ago and seeing the new rules/regulations set up by feds/state/local
> >> governments, it ain't what it used to be. If sweetie wants to sleep in,
> >> you
> >> are violating his rights to do so, if he doesn't like the chow, you have
> >> to
> >> make special just for sweetie, if he doesn't like dirt, you have to have
> >> an
> >> air conditioned nature/craft area and an enclosed private shower/bath
> >> facility (what ever happened to a privy), if he doesn't want to play with
> >> the others, we have to have an opt out area just for sweetie. No wonder
> >> today's kids are a bunch of weenies. We tell them of the fun we had in
> >> camp
> >> then regulate the hell out of it. No thank you.
>
> > The "feds" don't regulate summer camps. You find state laws that
> > dictate the above (other than the restroom facilities, which is a
> > public health issue), and post them if you expect anyone to believe
> > you.
>
> > Also, you wrote, "We tell them of the fun we had in camp..."
>
> > I got the impression that Andy thought it sucked. I would have. You
> > can have the bad food and all the rest. It sounds like you resent
> > "sweetie." You got treated like a piece of shit, and you'll never get
> > to go back to re-live your childhood. It isn't FAIR!
>
> > I don't want my "sweetie" treated in a way that I would have hated as
> > a kid. We use our limited resources to have him in the best school
> > and best "summer camp," although it is a come home at night "camp."
>
> > Perhaps you're not cut out for a job where you have to be nice to
> > children.
> > Now, go shit in your privy, since you seem to like the idea so much.
>
> >> -ginny
>
> > --Bryan
>
> When they are run by a national organization, yes the feds do step in.

I did a Google search with the terms "federal laws summer camp
children."
What EXACTLY did the "feds" mandate?

> As far as 'sweetie' is concerned, I like NO individual, child or not, who feels
> entitiled to just snap their fingers and have every wish granted, they
> should stay home and have the au pair cater to them, and no, I do not
> tolerate being spoken to by a child in a manner no person should be spoken
> to........my children were taught better.

I don't recall "being spoken to..." being one of the issues addressed.

You listed:
1. "sleep[ing] in"
2. "the chow"
and
3. "dirt...air conditioned nature/craft area"

Show me where ANY of these are mandated by law. You can't, because
they aren't.

> And, if you go into the woods,
> expect to live like you went into the woods, not the Hilton Chain....

So, you resent the rich families who prefer to enjoy "the woods" in a
more sanitized way? Do you think that the grown up rich folks should
should also have to rough it? Are you a Communist?

It wasn't the LAW that mandated #s 1,2 and 3. It was the parents/
marketplace.

If the kids treat the lunch lady with contempt, well, they are just
preparing themselves for their roles as adults, where working schmoes
like you and I ARE treated with contempt, albeit dressed up in a
politer fashion.

You took the job working for rich brats, but instead of blaming a
system run amok with economic inequity, you parrot off the crap you've
been spoon-fed, blaming it on government regulations. It serves the
interest of those rich brats to turn working people against
"government regulations," because the less restrictions, the more they
can increase the economic inequity.

--Bryan

Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:
>
>
> Nah, you wouldn't like it now. Having worked a summer camp kitchen a few
> years ago and seeing the new rules/regulations set up by feds/state/local
> governments, it ain't what it used to be. If sweetie wants to sleep in, you
> are violating his rights to do so, if he doesn't like the chow, you have to
> make special just for sweetie, if he doesn't like dirt, you have to have an
> air conditioned nature/craft area and an enclosed private shower/bath
> facility (what ever happened to a privy), if he doesn't want to play with
> the others, we have to have an opt out area just for sweetie. No wonder
> today's kids are a bunch of weenies. We tell them of the fun we had in camp
> then regulate the hell out of it. No thank you.
> -ginny

When I was a kid I went to camp for one session. It sucked. The food
sucked. I was not impressed with the activities. My wife went to a canoe
tripping camp. She loved it and went back every year and became a
counsellor. That camp has a family camp that we go to for a week every year
at the end of August. The food is not horrible. It is adequate, but we go
for the activities and to party with old friends. The accommodation is
rustic. We get a cabin in the woods with cots. We bring out own bedding and
lots of booze. It is my favourite vacation of the year. I take riding
lessons every week in order to be able to go on the advanced ride.

This is not a camp for wimps. It was a place that was established for rich
parents to send their kids to toughen them up. Activities are extremely
competitive. The youngest kids go for a 5 day canoe trip and as they get
older the trips get longer and longer. Some of the kids spend the entire
summer off tripping though the bush hundreds of miles from the camp.

On 2007-07-06, Andy <q> wrote:

> Well, that's how it went down for this camper, iirc.

Sorry to hear it.

> I wish I had kids. I'd be sending them off to summer camp right about
> now!!!

Me too. I went to Boy Scout and YMCA for about 3 yrs. Loved every minute
of it. Learned to smoke and swear and shoot and throw knives. Ate
rattlesnake, did log rolling, learned to row a boat and paddle a canoe, all
in the beautiful Sierra Nevadas. Three mile hikes into the backcountry to
areas few have ever seen, hacking out shelters from nature. No tents or
Colman stoves/lanterns. This was the real deal before it became a business
like Outbound for spoiled yuppie brats. I even did one Winter Camp. Trudged 3
miles in a trench path stomped into 10 high drifts. Snow was so deep we
couldn't leave the mess hall that had been turned into a barracks with 3
tier bunkbeds. Talk about seeing Winter in the Sierras close up! Still,
probably some of the happiest times of my life.

I think every kid should do camp. No cellphone or video games. Just two
feet and a pocket knife. I can't think of any generation that needs it more
than the last two.

nb
camp.

notbob said...

> On 2007-07-06, Andy <q> wrote:
>
>> Well, that's how it went down for this camper, iirc.
>
> Sorry to hear it.
>
>> I wish I had kids. I'd be sending them off to summer camp right about
>> now!!!
>
> Me too. I went to Boy Scout and YMCA for about 3 yrs. Loved every
> minute of it. Learned to smoke and swear and shoot and throw knives.
> Ate rattlesnake, did log rolling, learned to row a boat and paddle a
> canoe, all in the beautiful Sierra Nevadas. Three mile hikes into the
> backcountry to areas few have ever seen, hacking out shelters from
> nature. No tents or Colman stoves/lanterns. This was the real deal
> before it became a business like Outbound for spoiled yuppie brats. I
> even did one Winter Camp. Trudged 3 miles in a trench path stomped into
> 10 high drifts. Snow was so deep we couldn't leave the mess hall that
> had been turned into a barracks with 3 tier bunkbeds. Talk about seeing
> Winter in the Sierras close up! Still, probably some of the happiest
> times of my life.
>
> I think every kid should do camp. No cellphone or video games. Just
> two feet and a pocket knife. I can't think of any generation that needs
> it more than the last two.
>
> nb
> camp.


nb,

I can't say, in all honesty that it was all bad! My camp wasn't in your
surroundings which I can imagine were astounding. Ya lucky BUM!!!

My final summer camp REALLY sucked, especially only minutes after leaving
it, when my Mom happened to mention that my uncle Dan had been at the
Woodstock Music Festival, only ten miles down the road from camp. I wanted
to kill him for not rescuing me to the concert. Talk about a BUM!!! uncle!

I did the boy scout Jamboree in Gettysburg and the Klondike race in
winter!!! Definitely a MUST HAVE experience, agreed!

Andy

Goomba38 wrote:
>
> Skyhooks wrote:
> >
> > I remember it well (albeit vaguely), the weeks at summer camp as a kid!
> > All six of them! I and my younger brother were shipped off to a
> > neighboring state to languish at camp. Alas, one of those summers I was
> > banished to a teeny room (closet???) of my very own to sleep in
> > isolation at night due to outlandish snoring (was sleep apnea a
> > recognized medical condition back then?).
>
> Adenoids, perhaps? Kids shouldn't be snoring.
> Not everyone who snores has sleep apnea...but overweight adults are
> obviously more prone to it.

Well, I did have to get my tonsils removed as a young adult but not due
to snoring! I wonder if those or my adenoids had something to do with
my loud snoring back then (?). At least I don't snore as significantly
as I used to. A CPAP helps, too <G>.

Luckily, weight was never an issue for me as a youngster like it is for
sedentary kids these days. I and my younger brother were always told to
go outside and play, but now many children are kept mostly indoors for
fear of abduction of other outside factors, environmental and
otherwise. DS, now grown (nearly 23), was also told to "go outside and
play, but stay within 'whistle' distance." Luckily, he doesn't snore,
nor is he even close to being overweight

Sky, who has few selective fond memories of summer camp
Food was not one of them!

P.S. DS had to have his tonsils removed as a young adult, too (poor
kid).

On Jul 6, 11:35 am, notbob > wrote:
> On 2007-07-06, Andy <q> wrote:
>
> > Well, that's how it went down for this camper, iirc.
>
> Sorry to hear it.
>
> > I wish I had kids. I'd be sending them off to summer camp right about
> > now!!!
>
> Me too. I went to Boy Scout and YMCA for about 3 yrs. Loved every minute
> of it. Learned to smoke and swear and shoot and throw knives.

You say, "Learned to smoke," as if that was, or in ANY WAY could be a
good thing. Just what we need. Send your kids off to a camp run by
what are supposedly Christian groups (BSA being theist, if not
strictly Christian, and openly anti-***), where they learn "to smoke
and swear and shoot and throw knives."
>
> I think every kid should do camp. No cellphone or video games. Just two
> feet and a pocket knife. I can't think of any generation that needs it more
> than the last two.

I agree with getting kids out and active and all that, and our son was
going camping in our version of back country before he was a year old,
but I'd be damned if I'd send him off with an all male group of
goofballs so he could learn
how to be culturally male.

The following excerpt is from alt.punk 3-6-00
_______________________________________________

When I was in 5th grade, we moved to a new neighborhood, although it
was
still the same elementary school. My new neighbor kept asking me to
go
to a Boy Scout meeting, just to see if I liked it.

I refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, and one of the
leaders
asked me why--he probably thought it was a religious thing--and got an
earful about the Viet Nam War, and the rich people sending poor kids
to
die and kill innocent villagers.

The next day, on the school bus, my neighbor informed me that I was
persona non grata at the Boy Scout meetings.

To me, that flag is the flag of Joe McCarthy. It is the flag that
installed the dictator, Pinochet. It is the flag of Agent Orange. It
is the flag that flies over the School of the Americas, where the U.S.
military trained Central American soldiers in how to commit atrocities
for the greater good, "the greater good" being capitalism.
Again, it is the flag under which thousands of poor kids were forced
to
go to Viet Nam to kill and be killed, while the kids of the fat cats
were safe on college deferments.
__________________________________________

>
> nb
> camp.

--Bryan

On 2007-07-06, Andy <q> wrote:


> My final summer camp REALLY sucked, especially only minutes after leaving
> it, when my Mom happened to mention that my uncle Dan had been at the
> Woodstock Music Festival....

Mine too, but not for the same reason. Turns out I was screwed out of my
cooking merit badge due to some blatant cronyism/nepotism by the head and
assitant scoutmasters. When I was finally dropped off back home, I went
ballistic and cussed the scoutmaster no end and quit the Scouts on the spot,
the first time I'd ever sassed an adult. But, it didn't detract from the
overall great time I had at camp, despite learning a painful lesson about
real world politics. Live and learn.

nb

On Jul 6, 9:15 am, Andy <q> wrote:
> I wish I had kids. I'd be sending them off to summer camp right about
> now!!!
>
> Andy

I for one loved summer camp, except for the first couple of years at
camp Glenmere. That was a huge hayfield with few trees, and the arts
and crafts area with the picnic tables and roof was the only shade for
acres.

Girl Scout Camp OTOH, was phenomenal! At Merrywood, we would ride the
bus over the big bump in the road where you would lose gravity for a
few seconds, lots of trees and crafts that made sense! We built
tables out of twigs, had campfire lighting contests, and they served
us corn bread with butter and maple syrup as part of our learning
about the local tribes.

Overnight scout camp was even better! I got to sleep in a cot in a
platform tent with 5 other girls who giggled as much as I did, we'd
cook real meals, not just marshmallows for s'mores over the campfire,
and one year we biked from camp down to Cape Cod and took the ferry to
Nantucket to the scout "camp" there. That was _really_ roughing it!
All it was was a pine-covered lot with a tiny shed in the middle. In
the shed were some shovels, pup tents, and a box with a toilet seat
attached.... No refrigeration, so we mixed up our milk on the spot,
and caught fish for our dinners.

We made the fatal mistake of sending my daughter to Y camp when she
was young. Sports sports and more sports. By the time she was old
enough for Girl Scout camp, she hated the great outdoors, altho the
first few overnight camping trips were great fun.

maxine in ri

On 2007-07-06, Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:

> You say, "Learned to smoke," as if that was, or in ANY WAY could be a
> good thing.

That was a different time, long before eeee-ville tobacco. My point was, we
did the same things as all groups of "boys" learned in those days.

> how to be culturally male.

OMG! ...Heaven forbid. And just what would you have him be? Culturally
female? Bi-sexual? Androgynous? Asexual?

>
> When I was in 5th grade....

> earful about the Viet Nam War, and the rich people sending poor kids
> to
> die and kill innocent villagers.

I don't believe one word of it.

nb

On Jul 6, 9:53 am, "Virginia Tadrzynski" > wrote:
> if he doesn't like the chow, you have to
> make special just for sweetie,

Allergies. Some kids are allergic to all green veggies....

if he doesn't like dirt, you have to have an
> air conditioned nature/craft area

There have always been indoor camps, but with the way people raise
their kids today, with no outdoor run-around-til-8-pm every day kind
of make your own fun playing, that's what you end up with.

and an enclosed private shower/bath
> facility (what ever happened to a privy),

Health laws and overcrowding. A couple of my favorite girl scout
camps had to be sold to raise enough money to pay for the septic
system and flush toilets for the other overnight camps.

I was on the committee that oversaw preparation for an ACA
recertification at the Y camp my daughter went to. The regulations
are not geared towards "sweetie". but they sure take a lot of the
spontenaity out of camping, day or otherwise.

maxine in ri

maxine in ri wrote:
> On Jul 6, 9:53 am, "Virginia Tadrzynski" > wrote:
>> if he doesn't like the chow, you have to
>> make special just for sweetie,
>
> Allergies. Some kids are allergic to all green veggies....
>
> if he doesn't like dirt, you have to have an
>> air conditioned nature/craft area
>
> There have always been indoor camps, but with the way people raise
> their kids today, with no outdoor run-around-til-8-pm every day kind
> of make your own fun playing, that's what you end up with.
>
> and an enclosed private shower/bath
>> facility (what ever happened to a privy),
>
> Health laws and overcrowding. A couple of my favorite girl scout
> camps had to be sold to raise enough money to pay for the septic
> system and flush toilets for the other overnight camps.
>
> I was on the committee that oversaw preparation for an ACA
> recertification at the Y camp my daughter went to. The regulations
> are not geared towards "sweetie". but they sure take a lot of the
> spontenaity out of camping, day or otherwise.
>
> maxine in ri

I was a girl scout in the days of yesteryear The two camping trips I
recall were rough camping. There were only about 10 of us girls and two
scout leaders. At the one camp we had to pitch tents. We were camped along
a beach in SC. When the girl in charge of the french toast for breakfast
dropped the plate she was told to just wipe the toast off. There's nothing
worse than gritty french toast, let me tell you! But the supplies were
packed by the scout leaders and paid for by our dues; sorry, we don't have
anything else to feed you. <shrug>

The other trip was off the island a few hours away at an actual campground
and this time involved more than one troop. The tents were static and off
the ground on raised wooden platforms. That one I don't remember much about
except they assigned us to specific tents. You couldn't bunk with your
friends. While I understand the premise behind this it wasn't fun not being
able to hang out with my friends at "lights out". Bad enough as military
brats we were always being uprooted and forced to make new friends every
year or so. It was already a way of life; please don't do that to us when
we're at camp!

I remember we were supposed to go horseback riding. And I was chosen to
ride the most beautiful Palamino mare! She would only take an English
saddle and I'd demonstrated I knew how to ride English. Sadly, when we got
to the stables that morning the person who was supposed to be there to get
us set up didn't show. It was a huge disappointment.

Jill

jmcquown said...

> When the girl in charge of the french toast for breakfast
> dropped the plate she was told to just wipe the toast off. There's nothing
> worse than gritty french toast, let me tell you!


Jill,

LOLOLOL!!!

Sorry!

Thanks for sharing.

Andy

On Jul 6, 1:44 pm, notbob > wrote:
> On 2007-07-06, Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:
>
> > You say, "Learned to smoke," as if that was, or in ANY WAY could be a
> > good thing.
>
> That was a different time, long before eeee-ville tobacco. My point was, we
> did the same things as all groups of "boys" learned in those days.
>
> > how to be culturally male.
>
> OMG! ...Heaven forbid. And just what would you have him be? Culturally
> female? Bi-sexual? Androgynous? Asexual?
>
Gender =/= sex =/= sexual orientation.
>
>
> > When I was in 5th grade....
> > earful about the Viet Nam War, and the rich people sending poor kids
> > to
> > die and kill innocent villagers.
>
> I don't believe one word of it.

Go ahead, don't. I was a precocious kid, and was lucky not to have
ended up in reform school. Over the Summer, between 5th and 6th grade
I discovered marijuana, which rendered me reasonably able to deal
with.
I was the kid who memorized the encyclopedia during the Summer between
1st and 2nd grade.
I watched the news, read the newspaper, jeez, I was 12 in 5th grade.
That's not *necessarily* a child, and I was in the top (99th)
percentile on those #2 pencil tests.
My distrust of authority was instilled early, because of daddy
dearest, and because adults really did habitually lie to children "for
their own good."
If you knew my relatives and teachers, you would easily believe.

Oh, there are also adults who don't understand the difference between
gender, sex and sexual orientation.
>
> nb

--Bryan

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:15:48 -0500, Andy <q> wrote:

>As a pre-teen I was packed off to YMCA summer camp for a month every
>summer, 4 years in a row.

Story Snipped

>I wish I had kids. I'd be sending them off to summer camp right about
>now!!!
>
>Andy
>


My wife is a climbing instructor and she works as a counselor at an
adventure camp.

Now if I could have gone to a camp like that as a kid I would have
loved it.

Bobo Bonobo® said...

> Oh, there are also adults who don't understand the difference between
> gender, sex and sexual orientation.


Simmer down Brian!

We all got our backgrounds and many of us are adult enough that we don't need
to be told by you!

Andy

On Jul 6, 2:59 pm, Andy <q> wrote:
> Bobo Bonobo® said...
>
> > Oh, there are also adults who don't understand the difference between
> > gender, sex and sexual orientation.
>
> Simmer down Brian!
>
> We all got our backgrounds and many of us are adult enough that we don't need
> to be told by you!

I don't like being called a liar. No one who was concerned with
making a positive impression on Usenet would have posted all the stuff
I have over the past 10 years.
I have no reason to lie.
>
> Andy

--Bryan

On Jul 6, 3:29 pm, "jmcquown" > wrote:

> I was a girl scout in the days of yesteryear The two camping trips I
> recall were rough camping. There were only about 10 of us girls and two
> scout leaders. At the one camp we had to pitch tents. We were camped along
> a beach in SC. When the girl in charge of the french toast for breakfast
> dropped the plate she was told to just wipe the toast off. There's nothing
> worse than gritty french toast, let me tell you!
> Jill

Try making campfire stew, have someone measure out the pepper, and
just set the top back on the container. When someone goes to adjust
the seasonings, the whole shaker goes intto the pot for a dozen girls
and 1 counselor. Now, we would simply take a spoon and scrape out as
much as possible. But then, someone decided to make it worse and
stirred it all in.

Trust me, even the chili heads wouldn't have cared for it!

maxine in ri

It's all summer camp once you're through with school.

--Blair

In article >,
says...
> Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:
> >
> >
> > Nah, you wouldn't like it now. Having worked a summer camp kitchen a few
> > years ago and seeing the new rules/regulations set up by feds/state/local
> > governments, it ain't what it used to be. If sweetie wants to sleep in, you
> > are violating his rights to do so, if he doesn't like the chow, you have to
> > make special just for sweetie, if he doesn't like dirt, you have to have an
> > air conditioned nature/craft area and an enclosed private shower/bath
> > facility (what ever happened to a privy), if he doesn't want to play with
> > the others, we have to have an opt out area just for sweetie. No wonder
> > today's kids are a bunch of weenies. We tell them of the fun we had in camp
> > then regulate the hell out of it. No thank you.
> > -ginny
>
> When I was a kid I went to camp for one session. It sucked. The food
> sucked. I was not impressed with the activities. My wife went to a canoe
> tripping camp. She loved it and went back every year and became a
> counsellor. That camp has a family camp that we go to for a week every year
> at the end of August. The food is not horrible. It is adequate, but we go
> for the activities and to party with old friends. The accommodation is
> rustic. We get a cabin in the woods with cots. We bring out own bedding and
> lots of booze. It is my favourite vacation of the year. I take riding
> lessons every week in order to be able to go on the advanced ride.
>
> This is not a camp for wimps. It was a place that was established for rich
> parents to send their kids to toughen them up. Activities are extremely
> competitive. The youngest kids go for a 5 day canoe trip and as they get
> older the trips get longer and longer. Some of the kids spend the entire
> summer off tripping though the bush hundreds of miles from the camp.
>

The only culinary contribution summer camp and even Boy Scout camp ever
made was bug juice.