The average American eats 20 to 30 times as much salt as is required
for good health. - from www.odd-info.com

On Jul 10, 3:51 pm, javawizard > wrote:
> The average American eats 20 to 30 times as much salt as is required
> for good health. [snip useless link]

Blah, blah, blah. You think we'll click on a link to find out about
this revelation?

Most home cooks using fresh ingredients, in my observation, use too
little salt for best tasting results. And they don't use it at the
right times. They fail to salt pasta water, they fail to salt the
water for boiling potatoes, they fail to salt deep fried things
_immediately_ upon draining, they fail to salt aromatics when they
sweat them at the beginning of a recipe, they fail to salt the chicken
before they roast it, etc., etc., etc. Then they sprinkle some salt
over the dish at the end and wonder why it isn't as flavorful as it
should be. -aem

On Jul 10, 5:53 pm, aem > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 3:51 pm, javawizard > wrote:
>
> > The average American eats 20 to 30 times as much salt as is required
> > for good health. [snip useless link]
>
> Blah, blah, blah. You think we'll click on a link to find out about
> this revelation?
>
> Most home cooks using fresh ingredients, in my observation, use too
> little salt for best tasting results. And they don't use it at the
> right times. They fail to salt pasta water, they fail to salt the
> water for boiling potatoes, they fail to salt deep fried things
> _immediately_ upon draining, they fail to salt aromatics when they
> sweat them at the beginning of a recipe, they fail to salt the chicken
> before they roast it, etc., etc., etc. Then they sprinkle some salt
> over the dish at the end and wonder why it isn't as flavorful as it
> should be.

Amen.

> -aem

--Bryan

In article . com>,
says...
> On Jul 10, 3:51 pm, javawizard > wrote:
> > The average American eats 20 to 30 times as much salt as is required
> > for good health. [snip useless link]
>
> Blah, blah, blah. You think we'll click on a link to find out about
> this revelation?
>
> Most home cooks using fresh ingredients, in my observation, use too
> little salt for best tasting results. And they don't use it at the
> right times. They fail to salt pasta water, they fail to salt the
> water for boiling potatoes, they fail to salt deep fried things
> _immediately_ upon draining, they fail to salt aromatics when they
> sweat them at the beginning of a recipe, they fail to salt the chicken
> before they roast it, etc., etc., etc. Then they sprinkle some salt
> over the dish at the end and wonder why it isn't as flavorful as it
> should be. -aem
>
>

To top it off, a lot of people, including a pitiful number of
physicians, think that anyone with high BP (or who is trying to avoid
high BP) should restrict salt. It's been known for quite a while that
dietary salt (within reasonable limits) has no effect on BP for most
people. There are a few people with salt-sensitive hypertension, but
they are the exception.


--
Peter Aitken

aem wrote:
> On Jul 10, 3:51 pm, javawizard > wrote:
>> The average American eats 20 to 30 times as much salt as is required
>> for good health. [snip useless link]
>
> Blah, blah, blah. You think we'll click on a link to find out about
> this revelation?
>
School is out, aem. Time to flood newsgroups with "revelations". And I
agree with you, so many people use so little salt, everything is absolutely
tasteless. But salt will kill you! Salt causes high blood pressure. No,
it doesn't.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:53:55 -0700, aem > wrote:


>Most home cooks using fresh ingredients, in my observation, use too
>little salt for best tasting results. And they don't use it at the
>right times. They fail to salt pasta water, they fail to salt the
>water for boiling potatoes, they fail to salt deep fried things
>_immediately_ upon draining, they fail to salt aromatics when they
>sweat them at the beginning of a recipe, they fail to salt the chicken
>before they roast it, etc., etc., etc. Then they sprinkle some salt
>over the dish at the end and wonder why it isn't as flavorful as it
>should be. -aem

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have read too many noted chefs and food scientists lately, that have
said this. Salt doesn't just make things salty, if it is added during
the cooking: it helps expand flavors and develop them. If salted is
added at the end of cooking, food just tastes salty. And you end up
using more salt than you would if you added it during the cooking
process.

I know we have talked about this ad nauseum on rfc, but I am amazed at
folks that won't even try to test it out. It's isn't a hard
experiment. Just try cooking one of your normal dishes, and add salt
at a different point in the process. For instance, if you only salt
at the end, try adding it a bit earlier, say when sweating vegetables.
Or salt the chicken before you roast it...say a few days before. The
difference can be amazing.
It's not a difficult experiment. And you might be very surprised.

Christine

One time on Usenet, aem > said:
> On Jul 10, 3:51 pm, javawizard > wrote:
> > The average American eats 20 to 30 times as much salt as is required
> > for good health. [snip useless link]
>
> Blah, blah, blah. You think we'll click on a link to find out about
> this revelation?
>
> Most home cooks using fresh ingredients, in my observation, use too
> little salt for best tasting results. And they don't use it at the
> right times. They fail to salt pasta water, they fail to salt the
> water for boiling potatoes, they fail to salt deep fried things
> _immediately_ upon draining, they fail to salt aromatics when they
> sweat them at the beginning of a recipe, they fail to salt the chicken
> before they roast it, etc., etc., etc. Then they sprinkle some salt
> over the dish at the end and wonder why it isn't as flavorful as it
> should be. -aem

Huh -- Mom & Gramma taught me to do all those things. And here I
was worried I was oversalting. We (DH, DS, & I) generally don't
sprinkle it on our meals after cooking, though...

--
Jani in WA

"aem" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jul 10, 3:51 pm, javawizard > wrote:
>> The average American eats 20 to 30 times as much salt as is required
>> for good health. [snip useless link]
>
> Blah, blah, blah. You think we'll click on a link to find out about
> this revelation?
>
> Most home cooks using fresh ingredients, in my observation, use too
> little salt for best tasting results. And they don't use it at the
> right times. They fail to salt pasta water, they fail to salt the
> water for boiling potatoes, they fail to salt deep fried things
> _immediately_ upon draining, they fail to salt aromatics when they
> sweat them at the beginning of a recipe, they fail to salt the chicken
> before they roast it, etc., etc., etc. Then they sprinkle some salt
> over the dish at the end and wonder why it isn't as flavorful as it
> should be. -aem

I know to salt water for pasta, rice and potatoes. I don't do much in the
way of fried foods. I do sprinkle salt on French fries, popcorn and often
on green salad. I don't eat dressing. Just like the crunchy veggies. For
most things I find I can cut back some on the salt, but it's necessary for
those few things and also for baking.

My mom doesn't salt food when she cooks it, thinking she is doing a good
thing, then tells us to salt it afterwards if we want more salt. That never
works. Just makes the food taste bland yet salty.

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...

> To top it off, a lot of people, including a pitiful number of
> physicians, think that anyone with high BP (or who is trying to avoid
> high BP) should restrict salt. It's been known for quite a while that
> dietary salt (within reasonable limits) has no effect on BP for most
> people. There are a few people with salt-sensitive hypertension, but
> they are the exception.

Quite true. I believe those who respond to the low sodium diet are
something like 15%.

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 05:21:08 GMT, "Julie Bove" >
wrote:

>My mom doesn't salt food when she cooks it, thinking she is doing a good
>thing, then tells us to salt it afterwards if we want more salt. That never
>works. Just makes the food taste bland yet salty.
>
I agree. Add a moderate amount of salt while cooking, then you won't
need to salt at the table.
--

History is a vast early warning system
Norman Cousins

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:33:26 -0600, Christine Dabney
> wrote:

>On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:53:55 -0700, aem > wrote:
>
>
>>Most home cooks using fresh ingredients, in my observation, use too
>>little salt for best tasting results. And they don't use it at the
>>right times. They fail to salt pasta water, they fail to salt the
>>water for boiling potatoes, they fail to salt deep fried things
>>_immediately_ upon draining, they fail to salt aromatics when they
>>sweat them at the beginning of a recipe, they fail to salt the chicken
>>before they roast it, etc., etc., etc. Then they sprinkle some salt
>>over the dish at the end and wonder why it isn't as flavorful as it
>>should be. -aem
>
>AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>I have read too many noted chefs and food scientists lately, that have
>said this. Salt doesn't just make things salty, if it is added during
>the cooking: it helps expand flavors and develop them. If salted is
>added at the end of cooking, food just tastes salty. And you end up
>using more salt than you would if you added it during the cooking
>process.
>
>I know we have talked about this ad nauseum on rfc, but I am amazed at
>folks that won't even try to test it out. It's isn't a hard
>experiment. Just try cooking one of your normal dishes, and add salt
>at a different point in the process. For instance, if you only salt
>at the end, try adding it a bit earlier, say when sweating vegetables.
>Or salt the chicken before you roast it...say a few days before. The
>difference can be amazing.
>It's not a difficult experiment. And you might be very surprised.
>
>Christine

do you find that to be true when boiling potatoes? i can see it while
sweating onions, but i usually forget.

your pal,
blake

Another goos reason to salt potatoes and noodles when boiling is
that salt increases the temperature at which water boils.

Phil wrote on Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:35:00 -0500:

PE> Another goos reason to salt potatoes and noodles when
PE> boiling is that salt increases the temperature at which
PE> water boils.

The rise in boiling point is very small unless you use vast
quantities of salt.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Chefs add quite a bit of salt to the water to achieve this.

The food being cooked does not take on a lot of this salt during
the cooking process.
Boiling Points of Water
From the book Kitchen Science by Howard Hillman
Salt: Salt, sugar, and practically any other substance elevates the
boiling point and therefore shortens cooking time. The difference in
temperature between unsalted and salted water (one teaspoon of
salt per quart of water) is about 1° to 2° F, a difference that can
be critical in cooking situations demanding exactness.

In article >, phil1
@writeme.com says...
> Another goos reason to salt potatoes and noodles when boiling is
> that salt increases the temperature at which water boils.
>
>

By an extremely small amount that makes no difference whatsoever in the
final result.

--
Peter Aitken

Phil wrote on Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:01:14 -0500:

PE> Chefs add quite a bit of salt to the water to achieve this.

PE> The food being cooked does not take on a lot of this salt
PE> during the cooking process.
PE> Boiling Points of Water
PE> From the book Kitchen Science by Howard Hillman
PE> Salt: Salt, sugar, and practically any other substance
elevates
PE> the boiling point and therefore shortens cooking time. The
PE> difference in temperature between unsalted and salted water
PE> (one teaspoon of salt per quart of water) is about 1° to 2°
PE> F, a difference that can be critical in cooking situations
PE> demanding exactness.

I haven't got time today to calculate it but either you or
Howard Hillman are way out!

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

James wrote to Phil Evans on Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:04:58 GMT:

PE>> Chefs add quite a bit of salt to the water to achieve
PE>> this.

PE>> The food being cooked does not take on a lot of this salt
PE>> during the cooking process.
PE>> Boiling Points of Water
PE>> From the book Kitchen Science by Howard Hillman
PE>> Salt: Salt, sugar, and practically any other substance
JS> elevates
PE>> the boiling point and therefore shortens cooking time. The
PE>> difference in temperature between unsalted and salted
PE>> water (one teaspoon of salt per quart of water) is about
PE>> 1° to 2° F, a difference that can be critical in cooking
PE>> situations demanding exactness.

JS> I haven't got time today to calculate it but either you or
JS> Howard Hillman are way out!

JS> James Silverton
JS> Potomac, Maryland

OK, I have got time; a gram molecular weight of NaCl is 58.45g
(roughly 2oz and that's a lot!) and it would raise the boiling
point of 2 liters (say rather inexactly 2 quarts) of water by
about 0.5°F


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

To be honest there does appear to be 2 camps on the adding salt to
water for increasing boiling temperature.

Have been doing some surfing and some think its critical others
pooh hoo it.

In article <_Bbli.2050$YH3.1110@trnddc08>,
says...
> Phil wrote on Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:01:14 -0500:
>
> PE> Chefs add quite a bit of salt to the water to achieve this.
>
> PE> The food being cooked does not take on a lot of this salt
> PE> during the cooking process.
> PE> Boiling Points of Water
> PE> From the book Kitchen Science by Howard Hillman
> PE> Salt: Salt, sugar, and practically any other substance
> elevates
> PE> the boiling point and therefore shortens cooking time. The
> PE> difference in temperature between unsalted and salted water
> PE> (one teaspoon of salt per quart of water) is about 1° to 2°
> PE> F, a difference that can be critical in cooking situations
> PE> demanding exactness.
>
> I haven't got time today to calculate it but either you or
> Howard Hillman are way out!
>

I defy anyone to provide documented evidence that 1 or 2 degrees f make
a meaningful difference in any cooking.

For example, water at 1000 feet altitude boils at about 2 degrees f
lower than at sea level. Has anyone ever seen a recipe that has
different timing for 1000 feet?

No.

--
Peter Aitken

On Jul 11, 4:04 pm, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> Phil wrote on Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:01:14 -0500:
>
> PE> Chefs add quite a bit of salt to the water to achieve this.
>
> PE> The food being cooked does not take on a lot of this salt
> PE> during the cooking process.
> PE> Boiling Points of Water
> PE> From the book Kitchen Science by Howard Hillman
> PE> Salt: Salt, sugar, and practically any other substance
> elevates
> PE> the boiling point and therefore shortens cooking time. The
> PE> difference in temperature between unsalted and salted water
> PE> (one teaspoon of salt per quart of water) is about 1° to 2°
> PE> F, a difference that can be critical in cooking situations
> PE> demanding exactness.
>
> I haven't got time today to calculate it but either you or
> Howard Hillman are way out!

I wonder if he's misrembering teaspoons where it should have been
tablespoons. Doing a VERY back of the envelope calculation
(1qt~1L~1kg water, 1tbs table salt~18g~.65mol NaCL, Kb~.5 for water)
would give about a degree Fahrenheit difference. Of course, who cooks
using only a quart of water?

--
Ernest

blake murphy wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:33:26 -0600, Christine Dabney
> > wrote:
>
>
>>On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:53:55 -0700, aem > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Most home cooks using fresh ingredients, in my observation, use too
>>>little salt for best tasting results. And they don't use it at the
>>>right times. They fail to salt pasta water, they fail to salt the
>>>water for boiling potatoes, they fail to salt deep fried things
>>>_immediately_ upon draining, they fail to salt aromatics when they
>>>sweat them at the beginning of a recipe, they fail to salt the chicken
>>>before they roast it, etc., etc., etc. Then they sprinkle some salt
>>>over the dish at the end and wonder why it isn't as flavorful as it
>>>should be. -aem
>>
>>AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>I have read too many noted chefs and food scientists lately, that have
>>said this. Salt doesn't just make things salty, if it is added during
>>the cooking: it helps expand flavors and develop them. If salted is
>>added at the end of cooking, food just tastes salty. And you end up
>>using more salt than you would if you added it during the cooking
>>process.
>>
>>I know we have talked about this ad nauseum on rfc, but I am amazed at
>>folks that won't even try to test it out. It's isn't a hard
>>experiment. Just try cooking one of your normal dishes, and add salt
>>at a different point in the process. For instance, if you only salt
>>at the end, try adding it a bit earlier, say when sweating vegetables.
>>Or salt the chicken before you roast it...say a few days before. The
>>difference can be amazing.
>>It's not a difficult experiment. And you might be very surprised.
>>
>>Christine
>
>
> do you find that to be true when boiling potatoes? i can see it while
> sweating onions, but i usually forget.
>
> your pal,
> blake

I have done it both ways and i don't see a difference, i just never use
salt, well, on popcorn and when i make a big pot of beans but other than
that i just never need salt and my food is very tasty. Most food has
salt of some amount in it. Of course back when i used to make bread i
would use standard amounts.

Now pepper, especially freshly ground black pepper i am addicted to.

Of course if i were to make french fries or onion rings i am sure i
would salt them, so also if i took it into my head to make potato or
game chips. And some of the "salted" meats are very nice but i don't
make them myself. As nice as they are i have yet to brine a chicken.

Now if i make a vinaigrette for immediate consumption i will add a pinch
of sugar just to marry flavours, if im going to serve the vinaigrette an
hour or more after i make it i don't add sugar.
--
JL

"James Silverton" > wrote in news:cRbli.2054
$YH3.700@trnddc08:

> OK, I have got time; a gram molecular weight of NaCl is 58.45g
> (roughly 2oz and that's a lot!) and it would raise the boiling
> point of 2 liters (say rather inexactly 2 quarts) of water by
> about 0.5°F

"a gram molecular weight of NaCl is 58.45g" ?????

Thank god you clarify that it's "roughly 2oz and that's a lot!".

What a load of utter nonsensical crap.

I feel like Sheldon tonite :-)

ScottR
But I don't like to feel Sheldon

Scott wrote on 12 Jul 2007 01:10:39 GMT:

??>> OK, I have got time; a gram molecular weight of NaCl is
??>> 58.45g (roughly 2oz and that's a lot!) and it would raise
??>> the boiling point of 2 liters (say rather inexactly 2
??>> quarts) of water by about 0.5°F

SR> "a gram molecular weight of NaCl is 58.45g" ?????

SR> Thank god you clarify that it's "roughly 2oz and that's a
SR> lot!".

SR> What a load of utter nonsensical crap.

SR> I feel like Sheldon tonite :-)

I hope you are referring to Sheldon not the chemistry. It's a
bit of a pity that real units have not caught on but a gram
molecular weight, that's a molecular weight in grams of any
soluble substance, will raise the boiling point of a liter of
water by 0.58 C.


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Jul 11, 7:10 pm, Scott Robins
alid> wrote:
> "James Silverton" > wrote in news:cRbli.2054
> $YH3.700@trnddc08:
>
> > OK, I have got time; a gram molecular weight of NaCl is 58.45g
> > (roughly 2oz and that's a lot!) and it would raise the boiling
> > point of 2 liters (say rather inexactly 2 quarts) of water by
> > about 0.5°F
>
> "a gram molecular weight of NaCl is 58.45g" ?????
>
> Thank god you clarify that it's "roughly 2oz and that's a lot!".
>
> What a load of utter nonsensical crap.
>
> I feel like Sheldon tonite :-)

When I saw this I thought of the jingle, "I feel like Chicken Tonight,
Chicken Tonight."
>
> ScottR
> But I don't like to feel Sheldon

--Bryan

"Bobo Bonobo®" > wrote in message

When I saw this I thought of the jingle, "I feel like Chicken Tonight,
Chicken Tonight."
>


"Don't cook tonight, call Chicken Delight".

Peter A wrote:
>
> To top it off, a lot of people, including a pitiful number of
> physicians, think that anyone with high BP (or who is trying to avoid
> high BP) should restrict salt. It's been known for quite a while that
> dietary salt (within reasonable limits) has no effect on BP for most
> people. There are a few people with salt-sensitive hypertension, but
> they are the exception.

Purely hypothetical, but-

about a year ago, I was regularly testing my BP at 170 / 120. I cut my
sodium intake by more than half for 6 months, and after all that,
continued to test at the same.

Wasn't the sodium...

On Jul 11, 4:48 pm, ewdotson > wrote:
> On Jul 11, 4:04 pm, "James Silverton" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Phil wrote on Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:01:14 -0500:
>
> > PE> Chefs add quite a bit of salt to the water to achieve this.
>
> > PE> The food being cooked does not take on a lot of this salt
> > PE> during the cooking process.
> > PE> Boiling Points of Water
> > PE> From the book Kitchen Science by Howard Hillman
> > PE> Salt: Salt, sugar, and practically any other substance
> > elevates
> > PE> the boiling point and therefore shortens cooking time. The
> > PE> difference in temperature between unsalted and salted water
> > PE> (one teaspoon of salt per quart of water) is about 1° to 2°
> > PE> F, a difference that can be critical in cooking situations
> > PE> demanding exactness.
>
> > I haven't got time today to calculate it but either you or
> > Howard Hillman are way out!
>
> I wonder if he's misrembering teaspoons where it should have been
> tablespoons. Doing a VERY back of the envelope calculation
> (1qt~1L~1kg water, 1tbs table salt~18g~.65mol NaCL, Kb~.5 for water)
> would give about a degree Fahrenheit difference. Of course, who cooks
> using only a quart of water?
>

Gah, I got my gram molecular weight of NaCl wrong. God, I feel
stupid. Lousy neutrons. Oh well, please disregard.



--
Ernest

On Jul 11, 9:00 pm, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> Scott wrote on 12 Jul 2007 01:10:39 GMT:
>
> ??>> OK, I have got time; a gram molecular weight of NaCl is
> ??>> 58.45g (roughly 2oz and that's a lot!) and it would raise
> ??>> the boiling point of 2 liters (say rather inexactly 2
> ??>> quarts) of water by about 0.5°F
>
> SR> "a gram molecular weight of NaCl is 58.45g" ?????
>
> SR> Thank god you clarify that it's "roughly 2oz and that's a
> SR> lot!".
>
> SR> What a load of utter nonsensical crap.
>
> SR> I feel like Sheldon tonite :-)
>
> I hope you are referring to Sheldon not the chemistry. It's a
> bit of a pity that real units have not caught on but a gram
> molecular weight, that's a molecular weight in grams of any
> soluble substance, will raise the boiling point of a liter of
> water by 0.58 C.

That's not strictly true. It depends on the van 't Hoff factor of the
substance in question. The more ions it dissociates into, the greater
the boiling point elevation per mole of said solute.

--
Ernest

ewdotson wrote on Thu, 12 Jul 2007 04:42:25 -0700:

e> On Jul 11, 9:00 pm, "James Silverton"
e> > wrote:
??>> Scott wrote on 12 Jul 2007 01:10:39 GMT:
??>>
??>>>> OK, I have got time; a gram molecular weight of NaCl is
??>>>> 58.45g (roughly 2oz and that's a lot!) and it would
??>>>> raise the boiling point of 2 liters (say rather
??>>>> inexactly 2 quarts) of water by about 0.5°F
??>>
SR>>> "a gram molecular weight of NaCl is 58.45g" ?????
??>>
SR>>> Thank god you clarify that it's "roughly 2oz and that's a
SR>>> lot!".
??>>
SR>>> What a load of utter nonsensical crap.
??>>
SR>>> I feel like Sheldon tonite :-)
??>>
??>> I hope you are referring to Sheldon not the chemistry.
??>> It's a bit of a pity that real units have not caught on
??>> but a gram molecular weight, that's a molecular weight in
??>> grams of any soluble substance, will raise the boiling
??>> point of a liter of water by 0.58 C.

e> That's not strictly true. It depends on the van 't Hoff
e> factor of the substance in question. The more ions it
e> dissociates into, the greater the boiling point elevation
e> per mole of said solute.

I could give you a dissertation on activity too but I don't
think r.f.cooking is the place for it. I was just explaining a
rough calculation in customary day-to-day units.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Jul 12, 7:00 am, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> ewdotson wrote on Thu, 12 Jul 2007 04:42:25 -0700:
>
> e> On Jul 11, 9:00 pm, "James Silverton" e> > wrote:
>
> ??>> Scott wrote on 12 Jul 2007 01:10:39 GMT:
> ??>>
> ??>>>> OK, I have got time; a gram molecular weight of NaCl is
> ??>>>> 58.45g (roughly 2oz and that's a lot!) and it would
> ??>>>> raise the boiling point of 2 liters (say rather
> ??>>>> inexactly 2 quarts) of water by about 0.5°F
> ??>>
> SR>>> "a gram molecular weight of NaCl is 58.45g" ?????
> ??>>
> SR>>> Thank god you clarify that it's "roughly 2oz and that's a
> SR>>> lot!".
> ??>>
> SR>>> What a load of utter nonsensical crap.
> ??>>
> SR>>> I feel like Sheldon tonite :-)
> ??>>
> ??>> I hope you are referring to Sheldon not the chemistry.
> ??>> It's a bit of a pity that real units have not caught on
> ??>> but a gram molecular weight, that's a molecular weight in
> ??>> grams of any soluble substance, will raise the boiling
> ??>> point of a liter of water by 0.58 C.
>
> e> That's not strictly true. It depends on the van 't Hoff
> e> factor of the substance in question. The more ions it
> e> dissociates into, the greater the boiling point elevation
> e> per mole of said solute.
>
> I could give you a dissertation on activity too but I don't
> think r.f.cooking is the place for it. I was just explaining a
> rough calculation in customary day-to-day units.
>

*shrug* I agree that this isn't the place for in-depth discussions of
chemistry, but your rough calculation would underestimate the boiling
point elevation of a mole of table salt by a factor of two. (Well,
nearly. Most places I've seen Kb for water listed as 0.52) I
wouldn't call that entirely trivial myself. As with all things
though, I suppose ymmv.

--
Ernest

In article >, Peter A > wrote:
[snip]
>I defy anyone to provide documented evidence that 1 or 2 degrees f make
>a meaningful difference in any cooking.
>
>For example, water at 1000 feet altitude boils at about 2 degrees
>lower than at sea level. Has anyone ever seen a recipe that has
>different timing for 1000 feet?

Boiled eggs. (But that's at 420 metres. ;-)


Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

On Jul 10, 10:33?pm, Christine Dabney > wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:53:55 -0700, aem > wrote:
> >Most home cooks using fresh ingredients, in my observation, use too
> >little salt for best tasting results. And they don't use it at the
> >right times. They fail to salt pasta water, they fail to salt the
> >water for boiling potatoes, they fail to salt deep fried things
> >_immediately_ upon draining, they fail to salt aromatics when they
> >sweat them at the beginning of a recipe, they fail to salt the chicken
> >before they roast it, etc., etc., etc. Then they sprinkle some salt
> >over the dish at the end and wonder why it isn't as flavorful as it
> >should be. -aem
>
> AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I have read too many noted chefs and food scientists lately, that have
> said this. Salt doesn't just make things salty, if it is added during
> the cooking: it helps expand flavors and develop them. If salted is
> added at the end of cooking, food just tastes salty. And you end up
> using more salt than you would if you added it during the cooking
> process.
>
> I know we have talked about this ad nauseum on rfc, but I am amazed at
> folks that won't even try to test it out. It's isn't a hard
> experiment. Just try cooking one of your normal dishes, and add salt
> at a different point in the process. For instance, if you only salt
> at the end, try adding it a bit earlier, say when sweating vegetables.
> Or salt the chicken before you roast it...say a few days before. The
> difference can be amazing.
> It's not a difficult experiment. And you might be very surprised.
>
> Christine

Pure BS. The only thing adding salt early will accomplish is to draw
out moisture, speeds up sweating veggies and makes for less juicy
meat... anyone who includes salt in a steak marinade is a kitchen
imbecile. Salt has no odor of it's own and does nothing to enhance
aroma, and that is mostly what's responsible for food flavor, People
don't taste their food because they live in stinky houses, and then
try to compensate with air deodorizers and appling body fragrances of
all types. That's one reason restaurants have self closing doors for
kitchens, and why no one wants the table close to the terlits.

Generally less salt will be consumed when food is salted at service
and when food is not served in an odorous venue (people who bathe and
don't douse themselves with perfume consume less salt, true). Most
folks prefer the jolt of surface salt which is why salt shakers came
to be, and why do you think pretzels and chips have surface salt
instead incorporated into the recipe... most of the salt incorporated
into food during preparation won't be detected by the taste buds,
dissolved into food it will be too weak a solution, and it won't be in
the mouth long enough anyway. Why do you think the phrase "Just shut
up and swallow". hehe

Sheldon

(Phil Evans) wrote:
> To be honest there does appear to be 2 camps on the adding salt to
> water for increasing boiling temperature.
>
> Have been doing some surfing and some think its critical others
> pooh hoo it.

There are no camps, only different IQs... those who say adding salt to
cooking water increases boiling temperature in any meaningful way have
no IQ whatsoever.

In order to increase ther boiling point of water a mere few degrees so
much salt would need to be added that it would no longer be cooking
water, it would be a very strong saturated brine solution, way too
strong even for preseving food.

Sheldon

blake murphy wrote:

>
> do you find that to be true when boiling potatoes? i can see it while
> sweating onions, but i usually forget.
>
> your pal,
> blake

True across the board. Tie a cravat around your head before cooking so
you won't forget to layer the salt. You'll actually use less.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Sheldon wrote:

>
> Pure BS. The only thing adding salt early will accomplish is to draw
> out moisture, speeds up sweating veggies and makes for less juicy
> meat... anyone who includes salt in a steak marinade is a kitchen
> imbecile. Salt has no odor of it's own and does nothing to enhance
> aroma, and that is mostly what's responsible for food flavor, People
> don't taste their food because they live in stinky houses, and then
> try to compensate with air deodorizers and appling body fragrances of
> all types. That's one reason restaurants have self closing doors for
> kitchens, and why no one wants the table close to the terlits.
>
> Generally less salt will be consumed when food is salted at service
> and when food is not served in an odorous venue (people who bathe and
> don't douse themselves with perfume consume less salt, true). Most
> folks prefer the jolt of surface salt which is why salt shakers came
> to be, and why do you think pretzels and chips have surface salt
> instead incorporated into the recipe... most of the salt incorporated
> into food during preparation won't be detected by the taste buds,
> dissolved into food it will be too weak a solution, and it won't be in
> the mouth long enough anyway. Why do you think the phrase "Just shut
> up and swallow". hehe
>
> Sheldon

That is the longest stretch of senseless blathering I have seen this
week. Considering that I read the political pages on at least three
countries, that's saying something.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:06:40 -0700, ewdotson >
wrote:

>On Jul 12, 7:00 am, "James Silverton" >
>wrote:
>> ewdotson wrote on Thu, 12 Jul 2007 04:42:25 -0700:
>>
>> e> On Jul 11, 9:00 pm, "James Silverton" e> > wrote:
>>
>> ??>> Scott wrote on 12 Jul 2007 01:10:39 GMT:
>> ??>>
>> ??>>>> OK, I have got time; a gram molecular weight of NaCl is
>> ??>>>> 58.45g (roughly 2oz and that's a lot!) and it would
>> ??>>>> raise the boiling point of 2 liters (say rather
>> ??>>>> inexactly 2 quarts) of water by about 0.5°F
>> ??>>
>> SR>>> "a gram molecular weight of NaCl is 58.45g" ?????
>> ??>>
>> SR>>> Thank god you clarify that it's "roughly 2oz and that's a
>> SR>>> lot!".
>> ??>>
>> SR>>> What a load of utter nonsensical crap.
>> ??>>
>> SR>>> I feel like Sheldon tonite :-)
>> ??>>
>> ??>> I hope you are referring to Sheldon not the chemistry.
>> ??>> It's a bit of a pity that real units have not caught on
>> ??>> but a gram molecular weight, that's a molecular weight in
>> ??>> grams of any soluble substance, will raise the boiling
>> ??>> point of a liter of water by 0.58 C.
>>
>> e> That's not strictly true. It depends on the van 't Hoff
>> e> factor of the substance in question. The more ions it
>> e> dissociates into, the greater the boiling point elevation
>> e> per mole of said solute.
>>
>> I could give you a dissertation on activity too but I don't
>> think r.f.cooking is the place for it. I was just explaining a
>> rough calculation in customary day-to-day units.
>>
>
>*shrug* I agree that this isn't the place for in-depth discussions of
>chemistry, but your rough calculation would underestimate the boiling
>point elevation of a mole of table salt by a factor of two. (Well,
>nearly. Most places I've seen Kb for water listed as 0.52) I
>wouldn't call that entirely trivial myself. As with all things
>though, I suppose ymmv.

**** it, i'll just throw whatever it is into the oven.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 04:38:05 -0700, ewdotson >
wrote:

>On Jul 11, 4:48 pm, ewdotson > wrote:
>> On Jul 11, 4:04 pm, "James Silverton" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Phil wrote on Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:01:14 -0500:
>>
>> > PE> Chefs add quite a bit of salt to the water to achieve this.
>>
>> > PE> The food being cooked does not take on a lot of this salt
>> > PE> during the cooking process.
>> > PE> Boiling Points of Water
>> > PE> From the book Kitchen Science by Howard Hillman
>> > PE> Salt: Salt, sugar, and practically any other substance
>> > elevates
>> > PE> the boiling point and therefore shortens cooking time. The
>> > PE> difference in temperature between unsalted and salted water
>> > PE> (one teaspoon of salt per quart of water) is about 1° to 2°
>> > PE> F, a difference that can be critical in cooking situations
>> > PE> demanding exactness.
>>
>> > I haven't got time today to calculate it but either you or
>> > Howard Hillman are way out!
>>
>> I wonder if he's misrembering teaspoons where it should have been
>> tablespoons. Doing a VERY back of the envelope calculation
>> (1qt~1L~1kg water, 1tbs table salt~18g~.65mol NaCL, Kb~.5 for water)
>> would give about a degree Fahrenheit difference. Of course, who cooks
>> using only a quart of water?
>>
>
>Gah, I got my gram molecular weight of NaCl wrong. God, I feel
>stupid. Lousy neutrons. Oh well, please disregard.
>
>

neutrons are so middle-of-the-road. at least protons are positive
about things.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:42:18 -0700, Joseph Littleshoes
> wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:33:26 -0600, Christine Dabney
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:53:55 -0700, aem > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Most home cooks using fresh ingredients, in my observation, use too
>>>>little salt for best tasting results. And they don't use it at the
>>>>right times. They fail to salt pasta water, they fail to salt the
>>>>water for boiling potatoes, they fail to salt deep fried things
>>>>_immediately_ upon draining, they fail to salt aromatics when they
>>>>sweat them at the beginning of a recipe, they fail to salt the chicken
>>>>before they roast it, etc., etc., etc. Then they sprinkle some salt
>>>>over the dish at the end and wonder why it isn't as flavorful as it
>>>>should be. -aem
>>>
>>>AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>I have read too many noted chefs and food scientists lately, that have
>>>said this. Salt doesn't just make things salty, if it is added during
>>>the cooking: it helps expand flavors and develop them. If salted is
>>>added at the end of cooking, food just tastes salty. And you end up
>>>using more salt than you would if you added it during the cooking
>>>process.
>>>
>>>I know we have talked about this ad nauseum on rfc, but I am amazed at
>>>folks that won't even try to test it out. It's isn't a hard
>>>experiment. Just try cooking one of your normal dishes, and add salt
>>>at a different point in the process. For instance, if you only salt
>>>at the end, try adding it a bit earlier, say when sweating vegetables.
>>>Or salt the chicken before you roast it...say a few days before. The
>>>difference can be amazing.
>>>It's not a difficult experiment. And you might be very surprised.
>>>
>>>Christine
>>
>>
>> do you find that to be true when boiling potatoes? i can see it while
>> sweating onions, but i usually forget.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>I have done it both ways and i don't see a difference, i just never use
>salt, well, on popcorn and when i make a big pot of beans but other than
>that i just never need salt and my food is very tasty. Most food has
>salt of some amount in it. Of course back when i used to make bread i
>would use standard amounts.
>
>Now pepper, especially freshly ground black pepper i am addicted to.
>

isn't great that in the modern era, you don't have to be wealthy to
afford pepper?

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:10:34 +0200, Giusi > wrote:

>Sheldon wrote:
>
>>
>> Pure BS. The only thing adding salt early will accomplish is to draw
>> out moisture, speeds up sweating veggies and makes for less juicy
>> meat... anyone who includes salt in a steak marinade is a kitchen
>> imbecile. Salt has no odor of it's own and does nothing to enhance
>> aroma, and that is mostly what's responsible for food flavor, People
>> don't taste their food because they live in stinky houses, and then
>> try to compensate with air deodorizers and appling body fragrances of
>> all types. That's one reason restaurants have self closing doors for
>> kitchens, and why no one wants the table close to the terlits.
>>
>> Generally less salt will be consumed when food is salted at service
>> and when food is not served in an odorous venue (people who bathe and
>> don't douse themselves with perfume consume less salt, true). Most
>> folks prefer the jolt of surface salt which is why salt shakers came
>> to be, and why do you think pretzels and chips have surface salt
>> instead incorporated into the recipe... most of the salt incorporated
>> into food during preparation won't be detected by the taste buds,
>> dissolved into food it will be too weak a solution, and it won't be in
>> the mouth long enough anyway. Why do you think the phrase "Just shut
>> up and swallow". hehe
>>
>> Sheldon
>
>That is the longest stretch of senseless blathering I have seen this
>week. Considering that I read the political pages on at least three
>countries, that's saying something.

wouldn't it be great to see sheldon posting to political blogs. he'd
have several new ones torn daily.

(if he does post to them, i don't want to know.)

your pal,
blake

Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "Peter A" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > To top it off, a lot of people, including a pitiful number of
> > physicians, think that anyone with high BP (or who is trying to avoid
> > high BP) should restrict salt. It's been known for quite a while that
> > dietary salt (within reasonable limits) has no effect on BP for most
> > people. There are a few people with salt-sensitive hypertension, but
> > they are the exception.
>
> Quite true. I believe those who respond to the low sodium diet are
> something like 15%.

My father had sodium-sensitive hypertension; which is why my diet isn't
very high salt. We just learned to live with less salt.