In article >,
"Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> >
> > Awesome collection dude! :-)
> >
> > I'll have to look for Japanese knives. The cleavers I have were made in
> > China, but they've worked very well for me.
> > --
> > Peace, Om
> >
>
> Thanks Om and nothing wrong with the Chinese cleavers. CCK comes to mind as
> I have 2 of them. I have their very heavy bone smasher BBQ cleaver and the
> very thin and light 1103. The only difference in them and the Japanese is
> the steels. The CCK's for example will not hold and edge like the Japanese,
> but then it won't chip as easily as the Japanese steels. You don't want to
> be throwing the Japanese steel into your sink with a load of dishes/pans for
> example.

I have Kiwi brand and they hold a serious edge with just a little honing
with the steel as needed.

I NEVER soak knives! They are wiped clean as soon as I am done with them
and put away in the drawer or magnet holders! I've never seen a need to
soak knives.

It only takes seconds to give them a quick clean and dry and put-away.

>
> The Japanese cleavers are also much more expensive for example the black on
> with the octagon handle is custom made by Takeda.

But they are pretty. :-) Part of the joy of stuff like that is the sheer
beauty. There is nothing wrong with that.


> It cost me about $200 a
> couple of years ago and now costs almost $400 for the same cleaver. The
> Sugmoto #6 (flat looking red like handle) is about $300. I also have 2 there
> with custom handles a Suien VC and a Masahiro M3. All are carbon steels by
> the way.
>
> I think the best of the under $40 cleavers is the Town Food Service #1 which
> is made in the US. It has a very large blade in length and width however it
> is also very thin. It sells for about $30 and though like the Chinese steel
> it won't hold and edge as long as the higher end cleavers. Because of the
> size I wouldn't recommend one to a new cleaver user.
>
> Joe Cilinceon

To date, I've never spent more than $18.00 on a knife, but if you can
afford it, why not?
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>> news
>> >
>> > Awesome collection dude! :-)
>> >
>> > I'll have to look for Japanese knives. The cleavers I have were made in
>> > China, but they've worked very well for me.
>> > --
>> > Peace, Om
>> >
>>
>> Thanks Om and nothing wrong with the Chinese cleavers. CCK comes to mind
>> as
>> I have 2 of them. I have their very heavy bone smasher BBQ cleaver and
>> the
>> very thin and light 1103. The only difference in them and the Japanese is
>> the steels. The CCK's for example will not hold and edge like the
>> Japanese,
>> but then it won't chip as easily as the Japanese steels. You don't want
>> to
>> be throwing the Japanese steel into your sink with a load of dishes/pans
>> for
>> example.
>
> I have Kiwi brand and they hold a serious edge with just a little honing
> with the steel as needed.
>
> I NEVER soak knives! They are wiped clean as soon as I am done with them
> and put away in the drawer or magnet holders! I've never seen a need to
> soak knives.
>
> It only takes seconds to give them a quick clean and dry and put-away.
>
>>
>> The Japanese cleavers are also much more expensive for example the black
>> on
>> with the octagon handle is custom made by Takeda.
>
> But they are pretty. :-) Part of the joy of stuff like that is the sheer
> beauty. There is nothing wrong with that.
>
>
>> It cost me about $200 a
>> couple of years ago and now costs almost $400 for the same cleaver. The
>> Sugmoto #6 (flat looking red like handle) is about $300. I also have 2
>> there
>> with custom handles a Suien VC and a Masahiro M3. All are carbon steels
>> by
>> the way.
>>
>> I think the best of the under $40 cleavers is the Town Food Service #1
>> which
>> is made in the US. It has a very large blade in length and width however
>> it
>> is also very thin. It sells for about $30 and though like the Chinese
>> steel
>> it won't hold and edge as long as the higher end cleavers. Because of the
>> size I wouldn't recommend one to a new cleaver user.
>>
>> Joe Cilinceon
>
> To date, I've never spent more than $18.00 on a knife, but if you can
> afford it, why not?
> --
> Peace, Om
>

I can relate as I used an $18 Dexter cleaver and a through away paring knife
for about 35 years myself. I then got a set of Shun knives from my kids a
couple of years ago as a Christmas gift. As I researched the best method of
sharpening the Shuns is what really got me into it as I learned more. I
finished buying knives now, unless something really special catches my eye.

I have also seen the Kiwi's at various Asian markets myself though I've
never handled one. I will steel the Chinese and America steels but won't on
the Japanese. The main reason is the Japanese steels tend to be much hard
and don't tend to roll like the softer stuff does. The Japanese knives I
just strop on a Hand America leather bench hone coated with Chromium Oxide.
A very high polish does more than a steel does for improving their cutting
ability. I also sharpen up through a series of stones from 120 grit to 10K
grit followed by the strop. These metals really handle a high polished very
acute edge and cut like a laser.


Joe Cilinceon

On 2007-07-24, Joe Cilinceon > wrote:

> the steels. The CCK's for example will not hold and edge like the Japanese,
> but then it won't chip as easily as the Japanese steels.

So, the question is, who does make a good Chinese knife. I've got a
CCK 1302. I'm still working on putting a good edge on it. Otherwise,
I'm pretty happy with it. But, if someone makes a better one, without
being more brittle, I'd be interested. Someone somewhere has to
have made a really good Chinese knife.

nb

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:44:16 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Steve Wertz > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:10:09 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>>
>> > sw does not believe me that you can debone poultry with a chinese
>> > cleaver... ;-)
>>
>> I never said I didn't believe you, I was saying it's the worst
>> possible utensil you could use.
>>
>> But I guess if you only know how to use one knife, then
>> by all means... go for it.
>>
>> -sw
>
>It's not that I only know how to use one knife, it's that I've found
>that this knife is pretty much a universal tool and easier to use for
>boning than a boning knife.
>
>There are a few exceptions of course which is why I still keep a fillet
>knife, paring knife and chefs knife as well as a few others.
>
>Even I can't peel veggies with a cleaver. <G>

first you waggle the cleaver over your head to scare them. then you
move in for the kill with the paring knife.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:46:47 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article .com>,
> John Kane > wrote:
>
>> > http://i8.tinypic.com/5223knn.jpg
>> >
>> > I paid $10.00 for it at the asian market.
>>
>> Must be nice to be able to afford the fancy wooden handle
>>
>> I have never seen a chinese cleaver with anything but a metal handle.
>> I use mine quite a bit and find if very handy.
>>
>> John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
>
>I know what you mean. The other one I keep at work has a metal handle.
>I like the wood one better.
>
>Like I said tho', this knife was only $10.00. So was the one with the
>metal handle.
>
>Both are made by Kiwi.
>
>Want me to mail you one? Seriously? :-)

i'm going to make an expedition to the big-as asian stores in
rockville (md), and if i don't find them there, i might ask you to
mail me one.

james, do you think either kam sam or maxim's would have them?

your pal,
blake

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 2007-07-24, Joe Cilinceon > wrote:
>
>> the steels. The CCK's for example will not hold and edge like the
>> Japanese,
>> but then it won't chip as easily as the Japanese steels.
>
> So, the question is, who does make a good Chinese knife. I've got a
> CCK 1302. I'm still working on putting a good edge on it. Otherwise,
> I'm pretty happy with it. But, if someone makes a better one, without
> being more brittle, I'd be interested. Someone somewhere has to
> have made a really good Chinese knife.
>
> nb

The CCK is about as good as it gets in a Chinese Cleaver. The Town Food
Service #1 has a little better steel though it is very large and puts
beginning cleaver users off though it is excellent. The TFS is made in the
US as far as I can find out. I might add here that I haven't had a problem
with chipping on any of my Japanese knives in any way. But then I don't bang
them around my stainless sink, don't touch them with steels. I have most of
my thin slicer type cleavers sharpened to about an 18 degree total beveled
edge with about a 20 degree edge with a slight micro bevel. Most of my
Japanese cleaver and knives are between HRC 59 to 64 depending on the
steels. White and Blue carbon steels from Japan absolutely take the best
edge and keep them for an unbelievable amount of use. Though very hard they
also don't chip unless seriously abused like cutting on a granite counter
top, glass cutting boards etc. I use either wood end grain cutting boards or
poly boards depending on if I'm cutting meat or vegetable.

My CCK 1103 has about a 24 degree total bevel (12 deg per side) and holds up
well. I does need sharpening every couple of weeks to a month depending on
amount of use. My Japanese knives/cleavers last about 6 months between
touching up is required and that is with daily home use.

Joe Cilinceon

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:46:47 -0500, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
>>In article .com>,
>> John Kane > wrote:
>>
>>> > http://i8.tinypic.com/5223knn.jpg
>>> >
>>> > I paid $10.00 for it at the asian market.
>>>
>>> Must be nice to be able to afford the fancy wooden handle
>>>
>>> I have never seen a chinese cleaver with anything but a metal handle.
>>> I use mine quite a bit and find if very handy.
>>>
>>> John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
>>
>>I know what you mean. The other one I keep at work has a metal handle.
>>I like the wood one better.
>>
>>Like I said tho', this knife was only $10.00. So was the one with the
>>metal handle.
>>
>>Both are made by Kiwi.
>>
>>Want me to mail you one? Seriously? :-)
>
> i'm going to make an expedition to the big-as asian stores in
> rockville (md), and if i don't find them there, i might ask you to
> mail me one.
>
> james, do you think either kam sam or maxim's would have them?
>
> your pal,
> blake

I have actually found some in the smaller Asian stores also. I have an $10
OK Brand (who knows) that is a pretty good medium cleaver though on the
smaller size. It is great for chicken bones, fish bones, lobster/crab claws
etc.

Joe Cilinceon

On Jul 23, 2:46 pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article .com>,
> John Kane > wrote:
>
> > >http://i8.tinypic.com/5223knn.jpg
>
> > > I paid $10.00 for it at the asian market.
>
> > Must be nice to be able to afford the fancy wooden handle
>
> > I have never seen a chinese cleaver with anything but a metal handle.
> > I use mine quite a bit and find if very handy.
>
> > John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
>
> I know what you mean. The other one I keep at work has a metal handle.
> I like the wood one better.
>
> Like I said tho', this knife was only $10.00. So was the one with the
> metal handle.
>
> Both are made by Kiwi.
>
> Want me to mail you one? Seriously? :-)
> --
> Peace, Om
>
> Remove _ to validate e-mails.
>
> "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Thanks but no. The metal handle one is fine but thanks very much.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

In article >,
"Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:

> I can relate as I used an $18 Dexter cleaver and a through away paring knife
> for about 35 years myself. I then got a set of Shun knives from my kids a
> couple of years ago as a Christmas gift. As I researched the best method of
> sharpening the Shuns is what really got me into it as I learned more. I
> finished buying knives now, unless something really special catches my eye.
>
> I have also seen the Kiwi's at various Asian markets myself though I've
> never handled one. I will steel the Chinese and America steels but won't on
> the Japanese. The main reason is the Japanese steels tend to be much hard
> and don't tend to roll like the softer stuff does. The Japanese knives I
> just strop on a Hand America leather bench hone coated with Chromium Oxide.
> A very high polish does more than a steel does for improving their cutting
> ability. I also sharpen up through a series of stones from 120 grit to 10K
> grit followed by the strop. These metals really handle a high polished very
> acute edge and cut like a laser.
>
>
> Joe Cilinceon

You have to work with what you've got... :-)

I know how sharp the Kiwi's can get.
One careless slip and all that. I've got a couple of good scars on my
left hand.

And it was not from a dull knife!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> On 2007-07-24, Joe Cilinceon > wrote:
>
> > the steels. The CCK's for example will not hold and edge like the Japanese,
> > but then it won't chip as easily as the Japanese steels.
>
> So, the question is, who does make a good Chinese knife. I've got a
> CCK 1302. I'm still working on putting a good edge on it. Otherwise,
> I'm pretty happy with it. But, if someone makes a better one, without
> being more brittle, I'd be interested. Someone somewhere has to
> have made a really good Chinese knife.
>
> nb

As posted before, my two chinese cleavers are Kiwi brand from the Asian
market. $10.00 each. They hold a sharp enough edge to slice tomatoes
thinly.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> >It's not that I only know how to use one knife, it's that I've found
> >that this knife is pretty much a universal tool and easier to use for
> >boning than a boning knife.
> >
> >There are a few exceptions of course which is why I still keep a fillet
> >knife, paring knife and chefs knife as well as a few others.
> >
> >Even I can't peel veggies with a cleaver. <G>
>
> first you waggle the cleaver over your head to scare them. then you
> move in for the kill with the paring knife.
>
> your pal,
> blake

ROFL!!!

Works for me. ;-D

My best paring knife is the one exception to my $18.00 rule. It was hand
made by a knife making co-worker and I paid $35.00 for it. The handle
was made to fit my hand and the blade is 440 stainless and 1 1/2 inches
long. The handle is made from Red Oak.

The man that made it died from metastatic colon cancer 3 days after my
mom died.

Dave was a truly talented wood worker/knife maker. A true loss to the
world...

I have a few other knives made by him as well but not all are kitchen
knives. One of my favorites is a 3" paring knife with a handle made from
emu bone and burled maple.

The beauty of his knives is that all of them are full tang.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> >Like I said tho', this knife was only $10.00. So was the one with the
> >metal handle.
> >
> >Both are made by Kiwi.
> >
> >Want me to mail you one? Seriously? :-)
>
> i'm going to make an expedition to the big-as asian stores in
> rockville (md), and if i don't find them there, i might ask you to
> mail me one.
>
> james, do you think either kam sam or maxim's would have them?
>
> your pal,
> blake

The offer is good if you need it.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:

> My Japanese knives/cleavers last about 6 months between
> touching up is required and that is with daily home use.
>
> Joe Cilinceon

I've never really taken note of the time, but the chinese cleavers need
the occasional honing with the steel. I just do it if they seem to be a
bit dull. To date, I've never had to give them a major sharpening.

Your Japanese handles are a lot prettier tho' :-)

Mine are plain, but functional.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On 2007-07-24, Joe Cilinceon > wrote:
>
> The CCK is about as good as it gets in a Chinese Cleaver. The Town Food
> Service #1 has a little better steel though it is very large and puts
> beginning cleaver users off though it is excellent. The TFS is made in the
> US as far as I can find out.

You say "#1" for TFS. The only reference to number one I see on their
site are the all-one-piece SS line, P/N 47311. Is this the one you
are referring to? How does it compare to their "Stainless Slicer (P/N
47374) knife "of exceptional quality"? None of these are what I would
consider "very large", as my CCK is 3-3/4" X 8", a great overall 8"
knife. Another 1/4" or even 1/2" width would be no problem.

My 6" forged LamsonSharp chef is still my number one day-to-day knife,
but I'm rapidly beginning to appreciate the advantages of the Chinese
cleaver design and an 8" knife will always be a necessary size.

nb






I might add here that I haven't had a problem
> with chipping on any of my Japanese knives in any way. But then I don't bang
> them around my stainless sink, don't touch them with steels. I have most of
> my thin slicer type cleavers sharpened to about an 18 degree total beveled
> edge with about a 20 degree edge with a slight micro bevel. Most of my
> Japanese cleaver and knives are between HRC 59 to 64 depending on the
> steels. White and Blue carbon steels from Japan absolutely take the best
> edge and keep them for an unbelievable amount of use. Though very hard they
> also don't chip unless seriously abused like cutting on a granite counter
> top, glass cutting boards etc. I use either wood end grain cutting boards or
> poly boards depending on if I'm cutting meat or vegetable.
>
> My CCK 1103 has about a 24 degree total bevel (12 deg per side) and holds up
> well. I does need sharpening every couple of weeks to a month depending on
> amount of use. My Japanese knives/cleavers last about 6 months between
> touching up is required and that is with daily home use.
>
> Joe Cilinceon
>
>

In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> On 2007-07-24, Joe Cilinceon > wrote:
> >
> > The CCK is about as good as it gets in a Chinese Cleaver. The Town Food
> > Service #1 has a little better steel though it is very large and puts
> > beginning cleaver users off though it is excellent. The TFS is made in the
> > US as far as I can find out.
>
> You say "#1" for TFS. The only reference to number one I see on their
> site are the all-one-piece SS line, P/N 47311. Is this the one you
> are referring to? How does it compare to their "Stainless Slicer (P/N
> 47374) knife "of exceptional quality"? None of these are what I would
> consider "very large", as my CCK is 3-3/4" X 8", a great overall 8"
> knife. Another 1/4" or even 1/2" width would be no problem.
>
> My 6" forged LamsonSharp chef is still my number one day-to-day knife,
> but I'm rapidly beginning to appreciate the advantages of the Chinese
> cleaver design and an 8" knife will always be a necessary size.
>
> nb

The weight and curve works with you.
I've been amazed. I'd mostly used either a chef's knife (aka French
knife) or small fillet' knife for years until I started using this one.

I still use the others as appropriate, and a paring knife, but I confess
the chinese chef's knife is the most often used knife in the kitchen.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On 2007-07-24, Omelet > wrote:

> The weight and curve works with you.
> I've been amazed. I'd mostly used either a chef's knife (aka French
> knife)......

Agreed. I was looking for an 8" chef since I gave away my others to
my daughter. I got tired of cooking at her place with crappy knives,
so ended up giving her my Wustoff santouku and first cheapo Chinese
knife. I like the CCK I have, but have a couple issues with it and
think I can do better. In fact, the cheapo ($10) SS C-knife I gave
her has a better edge than my CCK. I agree about the weight, balance,
etc. Also, the width makes for a great scraper for picking up all
those chopped/mince bits and moving off the cutting board. An
amazingly handy design that has a deserved place in any kitchen, Asian
or not.

nb

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:
>
>> My Japanese knives/cleavers last about 6 months between
>> touching up is required and that is with daily home use.
>>
>> Joe Cilinceon
>
> I've never really taken note of the time, but the chinese cleavers need
> the occasional honing with the steel. I just do it if they seem to be a
> bit dull. To date, I've never had to give them a major sharpening.
>
> Your Japanese handles are a lot prettier tho' :-)
>
> Mine are plain, but functional.
> --
> Peace, Om
>

Actually two prettiest handles on cleavers are done custom by a guy in Maui,
Hawaii. He is doing one last knife for me as we speak and then he will be
retiring from doing it. It will be 6 total handles he has done for me in the
last 2 years. He did the 2 cleavers Suien VC and the Masahiro M3. He also
did a Hattori HD boning knife, 210mm Misono UX10 and 240mm Tojiro PS
gyuto/chef's knives. He is now doing a Watanabe nakiri which should be done
in another week or so.

I also had a very old F. Dick cleaver redone by The Epicurean Edge out of
Seattle, WA. That one is over a 100 years old but still a great bone crusher
cleaver. It belonged to my wife's great grandmother and had a lot of
sentimental value to her so I have it restored.

Joe Cilinceon

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> You say "#1" for TFS. The only reference to number one I see on their
> site are the all-one-piece SS line, P/N 47311. Is this the one you
> are referring to? How does it compare to their "Stainless Slicer (P/N
> 47374) knife "of exceptional quality"? None of these are what I would
> consider "very large", as my CCK is 3-3/4" X 8", a great overall 8"
> knife. Another 1/4" or even 1/2" width would be no problem.
>
> My 6" forged LamsonSharp chef is still my number one day-to-day knife,
> but I'm rapidly beginning to appreciate the advantages of the Chinese
> cleaver design and an 8" knife will always be a necessary size.
>
> nb

It is the 47371 and sold at
http://www.galasource.com/products.c...an-Cutlery.726 for $21.49 plus
S/H. This is a carbon blade that is very thin blade width (2mm to 1mm at the
tip), blade size is 9-1/4" x 4-3/4", total Length is 13-1/4" and weight is
about 1 lb.

Joe Cilinceon

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
>
> The weight and curve works with you.
> I've been amazed. I'd mostly used either a chef's knife (aka French
> knife) or small fillet' knife for years until I started using this one.
>
> I still use the others as appropriate, and a paring knife, but I confess
> the chinese chef's knife is the most often used knife in the kitchen.
> --
> Peace, Om

Yes I'm the same way with about 90% to 95% of all my cutting done with one
of the cleavers. My wife uses the 7" Shun Santoku and smaller and will
rarely touch anything longer than the 210mm gyuto/chef's. She will also once
in a while grab the Shun cleaver though it is bit too short for my tastes.

Joe Cilinceon

In article >,
notbob > wrote:

> On 2007-07-24, Omelet > wrote:
>
> > The weight and curve works with you.
> > I've been amazed. I'd mostly used either a chef's knife (aka French
> > knife)......
>
> Agreed. I was looking for an 8" chef since I gave away my others to
> my daughter. I got tired of cooking at her place with crappy knives,
> so ended up giving her my Wustoff santouku and first cheapo Chinese
> knife. I like the CCK I have, but have a couple issues with it and
> think I can do better. In fact, the cheapo ($10) SS C-knife I gave
> her has a better edge than my CCK. I agree about the weight, balance,
> etc. Also, the width makes for a great scraper for picking up all
> those chopped/mince bits and moving off the cutting board. An
> amazingly handy design that has a deserved place in any kitchen, Asian
> or not.
>
> nb

That's one of the fun things. :-)
The knife acts as a scooper off of the cutting board!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> > In article >,
> > "Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:
> >
> >> My Japanese knives/cleavers last about 6 months between
> >> touching up is required and that is with daily home use.
> >>
> >> Joe Cilinceon
> >
> > I've never really taken note of the time, but the chinese cleavers need
> > the occasional honing with the steel. I just do it if they seem to be a
> > bit dull. To date, I've never had to give them a major sharpening.
> >
> > Your Japanese handles are a lot prettier tho' :-)
> >
> > Mine are plain, but functional.
> > --
> > Peace, Om
> >
>
> Actually two prettiest handles on cleavers are done custom by a guy in Maui,
> Hawaii. He is doing one last knife for me as we speak and then he will be
> retiring from doing it. It will be 6 total handles he has done for me in the
> last 2 years. He did the 2 cleavers Suien VC and the Masahiro M3. He also
> did a Hattori HD boning knife, 210mm Misono UX10 and 240mm Tojiro PS
> gyuto/chef's knives. He is now doing a Watanabe nakiri which should be done
> in another week or so.
>
> I also had a very old F. Dick cleaver redone by The Epicurean Edge out of
> Seattle, WA. That one is over a 100 years old but still a great bone crusher
> cleaver. It belonged to my wife's great grandmother and had a lot of
> sentimental value to her so I have it restored.
>
> Joe Cilinceon

There is not and never will be a substitute for custom blades and
handles. They are generally worth the money.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> >
> > The weight and curve works with you.
> > I've been amazed. I'd mostly used either a chef's knife (aka French
> > knife) or small fillet' knife for years until I started using this one.
> >
> > I still use the others as appropriate, and a paring knife, but I confess
> > the chinese chef's knife is the most often used knife in the kitchen.
> > --
> > Peace, Om
>
> Yes I'm the same way with about 90% to 95% of all my cutting done with one
> of the cleavers. My wife uses the 7" Shun Santoku and smaller and will
> rarely touch anything longer than the 210mm gyuto/chef's. She will also once
> in a while grab the Shun cleaver though it is bit too short for my tastes.
>
> Joe Cilinceon

Your collection is larger than mine. :-)
I'm going to have to look for some of those narrower ones.
They look handy.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"notbob" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 2007-07-24, Omelet > wrote:
> Agreed. I was looking for an 8" chef since I gave away my others to
> my daughter. I got tired of cooking at her place with crappy knives,
> so ended up giving her my Wustoff santouku and first cheapo Chinese
> knife. I like the CCK I have, but have a couple issues with it and
> think I can do better. In fact, the cheapo ($10) SS C-knife I gave
> her has a better edge than my CCK. I agree about the weight, balance,
> etc. Also, the width makes for a great scraper for picking up all
> those chopped/mince bits and moving off the cutting board. An
> amazingly handy design that has a deserved place in any kitchen, Asian
> or not.
>
> nb

I have a buddy from the knifeforum.com kitchen section that made a trip to
CCK in Hong Kong last year. As a matter of fact he picked me up the CCK BBQ
1503 carbon cleaver. He had to of bought at least one of every series they
make and a couple in some cases. At any rate he says the 11xx series has
much better steel and takes an edge a lot better than all of their other
lines of thin cleavers. As for my 1503 that is sharpened like an axe as it
weights over 2lbs and has about a 3/8" spine. It could take down a rather
large tree.

I have 2 stainless cleaver a really reworked Dexter (my old one after a
badly chipped blade due to dropping it onto concrete while moving) and a
Joyce Chen which is also a Dexter though not made by them any more.
Everything else I have is carbon steels.

Joe Cilinceon

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
>
> Your collection is larger than mine. :-)
> I'm going to have to look for some of those narrower ones.
> They look handy.
> --
> Peace, Om

Look for something that tapers to the tip from about a max of 3mm down to
about 1mm. These are meant for slicing such as dicing onions, garlic,
carrots and meats. The medium one are about 4mm down to 2mm the complete
length of the spine and tend to be a bit heavier. You can get a edge on them
that will slice meats and vegetable but these are better for chopping duties
such as light bone like chicken and fish. They will slice but not as well as
the slicer type. The last type is a bone crusher and meant to busting bone
and heavy chopping needs their spines are very thick and they are heavy.

I have a lot more thin blade than the others since I use them more. I do
have 2 heavy and 2 medium weight cleaver but have them in small profile and
large profiles. It pretty much covers anything I would want to cut and then
some.

Joe Cilinceon.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:26:46 -0400, "Joe Cilinceon"
> wrote:


>I have 2 stainless cleaver a really reworked Dexter (my old one after a
>badly chipped blade due to dropping it onto concrete while moving) and a
>Joyce Chen which is also a Dexter though not made by them any more.
>Everything else I have is carbon steels.
>
>Joe Cilinceon
>

I just got a Dexter Cleaver: my first cleaver. I have used it a tiny
bit since I got it a week or two ago, and it feels pretty good in my
hand. However, the labeling, or package said it wasn't for meat.
Now I am thinking I really could use a meat cleaver for chopping
through bones, etc.

I have been looking at the page of Japanese knives you just posted,
and several meat cleavers seem to be available. My hands are small,
and I really don't know which one would be the best for my needs. Any
ideas from that page?

Christine

"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:26:46 -0400, "Joe Cilinceon"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>I have 2 stainless cleaver a really reworked Dexter (my old one after a
>>badly chipped blade due to dropping it onto concrete while moving) and a
>>Joyce Chen which is also a Dexter though not made by them any more.
>>Everything else I have is carbon steels.
>>
>>Joe Cilinceon
>>
>
> I just got a Dexter Cleaver: my first cleaver. I have used it a tiny
> bit since I got it a week or two ago, and it feels pretty good in my
> hand. However, the labeling, or package said it wasn't for meat.
> Now I am thinking I really could use a meat cleaver for chopping
> through bones, etc.
>
> I have been looking at the page of Japanese knives you just posted,
> and several meat cleavers seem to be available. My hands are small,
> and I really don't know which one would be the best for my needs. Any
> ideas from that page?
>
> Christine

It is fine as a meat slicer. I'm sure what they meant was it isn't meant to
cut bone which is isn't. You will need a much heavier cleaver for bone etc.
This is the main reason I have 3 different types of cleaver but most can get
by with 2.

Joe Cilinceon

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:47:15 -0400, "Joe Cilinceon"
> wrote:


>It is fine as a meat slicer. I'm sure what they meant was it isn't meant to
>cut bone which is isn't. You will need a much heavier cleaver for bone etc.
>This is the main reason I have 3 different types of cleaver but most can get
>by with 2.
>
>Joe Cilinceon
>

Yeah, I want one to cut through bone.
From that page of Asian cutlery, do you have one that you recommend?

Christine

"Christine Dabney" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:47:15 -0400, "Joe Cilinceon"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>It is fine as a meat slicer. I'm sure what they meant was it isn't meant
>>to
>>cut bone which is isn't. You will need a much heavier cleaver for bone
>>etc.
>>This is the main reason I have 3 different types of cleaver but most can
>>get
>>by with 2.
>>
>>Joe Cilinceon
>>
>
> Yeah, I want one to cut through bone.
> From that page of Asian cutlery, do you have one that you recommend?
>
> Christine

Actually for a home kitchen the F. Dick is my favorite. Mine is well over a
100 years old and still had a great blade when I had it redone. Now it is a
little over a pound in weight and will handle most of my home butchering of
pork, venison and beef. I also have a Chinese style bone buster that is over
2 lbs but I had to have a friend pick it up in Hong Kong on a visit. I
couldn't find one in the US in either Florida or Kentucky. To be honest with
you I haven't used it but a couple of times since getting it as the F. Dick
has been fine. One other thing you want to look at in a bone cleaver is the
size. You want something at least 1 lb and 6" to 8" blade size.

On a side note I don't do chicken but my wife does, I won't touch the stuff.
For fish, lobster or crab claws a medium cleaver which can be found in most
Asian food stores will handle it as well as the softer bones one would trim
off of the tops of spare ribs. The secret to that is the way it is sharpened
really as any cleaver in the 1/4" thick spine will pretty much cut bone for
a home cook if they buy from the local supper markets. Also most of the
Chinese medium cleavers are better than any of the major German brands with
few exceptions, F. Dick being the only one I can name.

Oh and cleaver really don't cut bone they bust it. Cutting bone can only be
done in my opinion with a saw.

Joe Cilinceon

Christine Dabney > wrote in
:

> My hands are small,
> and I really don't know which one would be the best for my needs. Any
> ideas

A thicker heavier cleaver and a rubber mallet. Place the cleaver where you
want it. Have at it with the mallet.. Using a rubber mallet and exact
placement of the cleaver ensures the bone gets cut where you want it cut;
with no wild willy-nilly swinging of the cleaver. This is a more humane way
for the cleaver and ensures that at the end of the cutting job your
mandatory pre-job finger count matches. I'd lean more towards a Swiss style
cleaver for meat and bone cutting...Lee Valley used to offer one at a
reasonable price while not being a 'knife' brand name offering the swiss
style of cleaver with the point on one end would do a fine job on meat
joints.

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
Elbonian Folklore

"hahabogus" > wrote in message
...
> Christine Dabney > wrote in
> :
>
>> My hands are small,
>> and I really don't know which one would be the best for my needs. Any
>> ideas
>
> A thicker heavier cleaver and a rubber mallet. Place the cleaver where you
> want it. Have at it with the mallet.. Using a rubber mallet and exact
> placement of the cleaver ensures the bone gets cut where you want it cut;
> with no wild willy-nilly swinging of the cleaver. This is a more humane
> way
> for the cleaver and ensures that at the end of the cutting job your
> mandatory pre-job finger count matches. I'd lean more towards a Swiss
> style
> cleaver for meat and bone cutting...Lee Valley used to offer one at a
> reasonable price while not being a 'knife' brand name offering the swiss
> style of cleaver with the point on one end would do a fine job on meat
> joints.
>
> --
>
> The house of the burning beet-Alan
>
> It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
> Elbonian Folklore
>

Oh do I agree with this statement. With heavy bone cutting cleavers this is
the only safe way to do it unless it is as large as a tree trunk. I don't
know about the Swiss style cleaver but any cleaver with a heavy spine should
handle this just fine, provided it isn't sharpened to a real acute angle.

Joe Cilinceon

"Joe Cilinceon" > wrote in
:

> "hahabogus" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Christine Dabney > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> My hands are small,
>>> and I really don't know which one would be the best for my needs.
>>> Any ideas
>>
>> A thicker heavier cleaver and a rubber mallet. Place the cleaver
>> where you want it. Have at it with the mallet.. Using a rubber mallet
>> and exact placement of the cleaver ensures the bone gets cut where
>> you want it cut; with no wild willy-nilly swinging of the cleaver.
>> This is a more humane way
>> for the cleaver and ensures that at the end of the cutting job your
>> mandatory pre-job finger count matches. I'd lean more towards a Swiss
>> style
>> cleaver for meat and bone cutting...Lee Valley used to offer one at a
>> reasonable price while not being a 'knife' brand name offering the
>> swiss style of cleaver with the point on one end would do a fine job
>> on meat joints.
>>
>> --
>>
>> The house of the burning beet-Alan
>>
>> It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
>> Elbonian Folklore
>>
>
> Oh do I agree with this statement. With heavy bone cutting cleavers
> this is the only safe way to do it unless it is as large as a tree
> trunk. I don't know about the Swiss style cleaver but any cleaver with
> a heavy spine should handle this just fine, provided it isn't
> sharpened to a real acute angle.
>
> Joe Cilinceon
>
>
>

I checked and Lee Valley no longer carries that style of cleaver (it was
around 1/4 inch thick and the end curved to a point). Their solid
stainless steel chinese style cleaver is availible...it's thickness seems
to be lacking but it does weigh in at 1 pound, and the price is right for
an occassional dismemberment of a joint or the halving of a squash. Plus
the mallets are right there...

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
Elbonian Folklore

"hahabogus" > wrote in message
...
> "Joe Cilinceon" > wrote in
> :
>
>> "hahabogus" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Christine Dabney > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> My hands are small,
>>>> and I really don't know which one would be the best for my needs.
>>>> Any ideas
>>>
>>> A thicker heavier cleaver and a rubber mallet. Place the cleaver
>>> where you want it. Have at it with the mallet.. Using a rubber mallet
>>> and exact placement of the cleaver ensures the bone gets cut where
>>> you want it cut; with no wild willy-nilly swinging of the cleaver.
>>> This is a more humane way
>>> for the cleaver and ensures that at the end of the cutting job your
>>> mandatory pre-job finger count matches. I'd lean more towards a Swiss
>>> style
>>> cleaver for meat and bone cutting...Lee Valley used to offer one at a
>>> reasonable price while not being a 'knife' brand name offering the
>>> swiss style of cleaver with the point on one end would do a fine job
>>> on meat joints.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> The house of the burning beet-Alan
>>>
>>> It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
>>> Elbonian Folklore
>>>
>>
>> Oh do I agree with this statement. With heavy bone cutting cleavers
>> this is the only safe way to do it unless it is as large as a tree
>> trunk. I don't know about the Swiss style cleaver but any cleaver with
>> a heavy spine should handle this just fine, provided it isn't
>> sharpened to a real acute angle.
>>
>> Joe Cilinceon
>>
>>
>>
>
> I checked and Lee Valley no longer carries that style of cleaver (it was
> around 1/4 inch thick and the end curved to a point). Their solid
> stainless steel chinese style cleaver is availible...it's thickness seems
> to be lacking but it does weigh in at 1 pound, and the price is right for
> an occassional dismemberment of a joint or the halving of a squash. Plus
> the mallets are right there...
>
> --
>
> The house of the burning beet-Alan
>
> It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
> Elbonian Folklore
>

F. Dick is a good source of those types of cleavers.
http://www.chefknifes.com/cleavers.htm their current line.

Joe Cilinceon

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 13:07:32 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> >Like I said tho', this knife was only $10.00. So was the one with the
>> >metal handle.
>> >
>> >Both are made by Kiwi.
>> >
>> >Want me to mail you one? Seriously? :-)
>>
>> i'm going to make an expedition to the big-as asian stores in
>> rockville (md), and if i don't find them there, i might ask you to
>> mail me one.
>>
>> james, do you think either kam sam or maxim's would have them?
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>The offer is good if you need it.

i'm thinking of going tomorrow if i can overcome my customary sloth.
i think i should be able to find it in metro d.c. but i'll keep you
in mind.

the last restaurant supply place i went to in d.c. would have been
fun, but i couldn't really navigate the aisles in my wheelchair.
nuts.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
"Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> >
> > Your collection is larger than mine. :-)
> > I'm going to have to look for some of those narrower ones.
> > They look handy.
> > --
> > Peace, Om
>
> Look for something that tapers to the tip from about a max of 3mm down to
> about 1mm. These are meant for slicing such as dicing onions, garlic,
> carrots and meats. The medium one are about 4mm down to 2mm the complete
> length of the spine and tend to be a bit heavier. You can get a edge on them
> that will slice meats and vegetable but these are better for chopping duties
> such as light bone like chicken and fish. They will slice but not as well as
> the slicer type. The last type is a bone crusher and meant to busting bone
> and heavy chopping needs their spines are very thick and they are heavy.
>
> I have a lot more thin blade than the others since I use them more. I do
> have 2 heavy and 2 medium weight cleaver but have them in small profile and
> large profiles. It pretty much covers anything I would want to cut and then
> some.
>
> Joe Cilinceon.

Got it.

We have one very ancient, very heavy and thick cleaver I use entirely
for chopping frozen meats or bones. It's very old and the spine is a bit
"beaten" from mom using a hammer stone on it.<G>

It's not very pretty...
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:

> F. Dick is a good source of those types of cleavers.
> http://www.chefknifes.com/cleavers.htm their current line.
>
> Joe Cilinceon

It's nice to meet a real cleaver aficionado. This has been most
educational!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:
>
>> F. Dick is a good source of those types of cleavers.
>> http://www.chefknifes.com/cleavers.htm their current line.
>>
>> Joe Cilinceon
>
> It's nice to meet a real cleaver aficionado. This has been most
> educational!
> --
> Peace, Om
>

LOL I'm not sure I'm an aficionado but I learned to cook watching Martin Yan
on PBS when he first started out. He actually got me into even wanting to
cook. Up until last year I thought every used a cleaver for cooking and not
knives. I struggle with knives like most struggle with a cleaver so I guess
it is in the way you learn something.

Joe Cilinceon

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 13:07:32 -0500, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > blake murphy > wrote:
> >
> >> >Like I said tho', this knife was only $10.00. So was the one with the
> >> >metal handle.
> >> >
> >> >Both are made by Kiwi.
> >> >
> >> >Want me to mail you one? Seriously? :-)
> >>
> >> i'm going to make an expedition to the big-as asian stores in
> >> rockville (md), and if i don't find them there, i might ask you to
> >> mail me one.
> >>
> >> james, do you think either kam sam or maxim's would have them?
> >>
> >> your pal,
> >> blake
> >
> >The offer is good if you need it.
>
> i'm thinking of going tomorrow if i can overcome my customary sloth.
> i think i should be able to find it in metro d.c. but i'll keep you
> in mind.
>
> the last restaurant supply place i went to in d.c. would have been
> fun, but i couldn't really navigate the aisles in my wheelchair.
> nuts.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Mm, the big one here, "MT" in Austin would not be a problem for a
wheelchair!

Good hunting... but I hear ya on the sloth thing. I get that way when
I'm short on sleep.

Makes it easy to procrastinate. <g>
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> > In article >,
> > "Joe Cilinceon" > wrote:
> >
> >> F. Dick is a good source of those types of cleavers.
> >> http://www.chefknifes.com/cleavers.htm their current line.
> >>
> >> Joe Cilinceon
> >
> > It's nice to meet a real cleaver aficionado. This has been most
> > educational!
> > --
> > Peace, Om
> >
>
> LOL I'm not sure I'm an aficionado but I learned to cook watching Martin Yan
> on PBS when he first started out. He actually got me into even wanting to
> cook. Up until last year I thought every used a cleaver for cooking and not
> knives. I struggle with knives like most struggle with a cleaver so I guess
> it is in the way you learn something.
>
> Joe Cilinceon

I understand... but I started with regular knives, then graduated. ;-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson