I am keen to do this. But not in large quantities. I would love to
hea from any cook out there who has experience in this area of
cheese-making.

Cheers


The Golfer's Wife

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:46:17 +1200, The Golfer's Wife wrote:
>
>> I am keen to do this. But not in large quantities. I would love to
>> hea from any cook out there who has experience in this area of
>> cheese-making.
>
> http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html
>
> I've done it a couple times when milk is really cheap (usually at
> CostCo where I had to buy 2 gallons at a time - now you can get
> just one).
>
> It's worth trying at least twice.
>
> -sw

Cool site, may try the limoncello thingy, I think I'd have to use vodka
though, I haven't seen just alcohol for sale here in the UK.

Sarah

The Golfer's Wife wrote:
> I am keen to do this. But not in large quantities. I would love to
> hea from any cook out there who has experience in this area of
> cheese-making.
>
> Cheers
>


It's worth trying once, just to experience it. For me it was akin to
making ketchup where a bushel or so of tomatoes yielded 1/2 pint of
not-so-spicy results.

I recall using a large amount of milk and getting a lump of mozzarella
about the size of a quarter coin.

Good luck!

gloria p

On Jul 24, 2:46 am, The Golfer's Wife <> wrote:
> I am keen to do this. But not in large quantities. I would love to
> hea from any cook out there who has experience in this area of
> cheese-making.
>
> Cheers
>
> The Golfer's Wife

I tried for the first time back in January, and after a few tries, it
worked. Someone in this group, nogoer, was extremely helpful and
directed me to a website called Leener's, which has the directions I
used. If you want to read our thread, it was from Jan.12 of this year,
named Making Cheese. Good Luck!

In article > ,
"Sarah" > wrote:


> Cool site, may try the limoncello thingy, I think I'd have to use vodka
> though, I haven't seen just alcohol for sale here in the UK.


Same thing. "just alcohol" is alcohol plus water. Vodka is alcohol
plus water. Just make sure of your proportions. "just alcohol" might
mean 95% alcohol, 5% water. Vodka may be 40% alcohol (or more) and the
rest water. More expensive vodka gives some flavor, cheap stuff often
doesn't.

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:46:17 +1200, The Golfer's Wife wrote:
>
>> I am keen to do this. But not in large quantities. I would love to
>> hea from any cook out there who has experience in this area of
>> cheese-making.
>
> http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html
>
> I've done it a couple times when milk is really cheap (usually at
> CostCo where I had to buy 2 gallons at a time - now you can get
> just one).
>
> It's worth trying at least twice.
>

For me, this could be dangerous. Like a drunk making her own wine.

On Jul 24, 11:18 am, merryb > wrote:
> On Jul 24, 2:46 am, The Golfer's Wife <> wrote:
>
> > I am keen to do this. But not in large quantities. I would love to
> > hea from any cook out there who has experience in this area of
> > cheese-making.
>
> > Cheers
>
> > The Golfer's Wife
>
> I tried for the first time back in January, and after a few tries, it
> worked. Someone in this group, nogoer, was extremely helpful and
> directed me to a website called Leener's, which has the directions I
> used. If you want to read our thread, it was from Jan.12 of this year,
> named Making Cheese. Good Luck!

REAL cheese is cultured by bacteria, NOT curdled by adding citric
acid.

--Bryan

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:18:26 -0700, merryb > wrote:

>On Jul 24, 2:46 am, The Golfer's Wife <> wrote:
>> I am keen to do this. But not in large quantities. I would love to
>> hea from any cook out there who has experience in this area of
>> cheese-making.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> The Golfer's Wife
>
>I tried for the first time back in January, and after a few tries, it
>worked. Someone in this group, nogoer, was extremely helpful and
>directed me to a website called Leener's, which has the directions I
>used. If you want to read our thread, it was from Jan.12 of this year,
>named Making Cheese. Good Luck!

Thank you for this. I found the thread ok, but some of the
ingredients were totally foreign to me. I then found a recipe for
both mozzarella and ricotta cheesemaking at home at
www.italianfoodforever.com

These recipes had ingredients I either have in my pantry (citric acid
and rennet) or can get easily (whole pasteurized milk). One cannot
buy raw milk in New Zealand - but I guess if you lived on a dairy farm
you could acquire it!

Thank you for your helpful reply.

Cheers


The Golfer's Wife

<The Golfer's Wife> wrote in message
...
> I am keen to do this. But not in large quantities. I would love to
> hea from any cook out there who has experience in this area of
> cheese-making.


The key is the milk. Homogenized and pasteurized milk just does not work
very well. You need whole, raw milk. I had no luck making moz at home
until I found a source for raw milk. Also, the cheese making kits use
vegetable rennet. It is a fairly weak substitute for the real rennet. The
sites that sell cheese making supplies will sell the rennet too. Get used
to really hot water. You'll have to handle the hot curds in very hot water.
A pair of rubber gloves will help a lot.

Paul

cybercat wrote:
> "Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:46:17 +1200, The Golfer's Wife wrote:
>>
>>> I am keen to do this. But not in large quantities. I would love to
>>> hea from any cook out there who has experience in this area of
>>> cheese-making.
>>
>> http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html
>>
>> I've done it a couple times when milk is really cheap (usually at
>> CostCo where I had to buy 2 gallons at a time - now you can get
>> just one).
>>
>> It's worth trying at least twice.
>>
>
> For me, this could be dangerous. Like a drunk making her own wine.

Yeah, me, too, cyber! LOL.

kili

Bobo Bonobo® wrote:

> On Jul 24, 11:18 am, merryb > wrote:
>
>>
>>I tried for the first time back in January, and after a few tries, it
>>worked. Someone in this group, nogoer, was extremely helpful and
>>directed me to a website called Leener's, which has the directions I
>>used. If you want to read our thread, it was from Jan.12 of this year,
>>named Making Cheese. Good Luck!
>
>
> REAL cheese is cultured by bacteria, NOT curdled by adding citric
> acid.


You're confusing a few issues here, poster formerly referred
to as "Food Snob".

Culturing is done on some aged cheeses to effect texture and flavor.
Many cheeses, even aged ones, are not cultured and it's by no means
a necessary part of the process.

What you call "curdling" is properly called coagulation, and it
is a necessary part of cheesemaking. It's how the solids are
separated from the liquid portion of the milk.

Many cheeses are coagulated with enzyme (usually rennet), but
certainly not all. Some perfectly wonderful cheeses are coagulated
by the acid method.

In any case, whether it's an enzyme coagulated cheese or acid coagulated
it can still be cultured as well. One does not exclude the other. They
have nothing to do with each other, actually.

--
Reg

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 00:51:27 GMT, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
> > The key is the milk. Homogenized and pasteurized milk just does not
work
> > very well. You need whole, raw milk. I had no luck making moz at home
> > until I found a source for raw milk.
>
> That's ridiculous. I've turned out commercial/retail quality
> fresh mozzarella with store-bought milk plenty of times.
>
> -sw


Your face curdles milk, apparently.

Paul

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 03:39:22 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> wrote:

>
>"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 00:51:27 GMT, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>
>> > The key is the milk. Homogenized and pasteurized milk just does not
>work
>> > very well. You need whole, raw milk. I had no luck making moz at home
>> > until I found a source for raw milk.
>>
>> That's ridiculous. I've turned out commercial/retail quality
>> fresh mozzarella with store-bought milk plenty of times.
>>
>> -sw
>
>
>Your face curdles milk, apparently.
>
>Paul
>
That's an unacceptably rude reply. If quality cooks with good
reputations can offer their recipes and methods from successful
cheesemaking, that's enough for me. And it should be for you.

I actually watched a neighbour of an aunt of mine in Italy make
mozzarella from pasteurized milk. My problems was with the language
and while they all tried to help, I was somewhat at a loss. Hence my
query.


The Golfer's Wife

Reg > wrote:

>In any case, whether it's an enzyme coagulated cheese or acid coagulated
>it can still be cultured as well. One does not exclude the other. They
>have nothing to do with each other, actually.

IIRC a marscapone is an acid-curdled, then cultured cheese and
its a damn good cheese too.

Steve

<The Golfer's Wife> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 03:39:22 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 00:51:27 GMT, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>
>>> > The key is the milk. Homogenized and pasteurized milk just does not
>>work
>>> > very well. You need whole, raw milk. I had no luck making moz at
>>> > home
>>> > until I found a source for raw milk.
>>>
>>> That's ridiculous. I've turned out commercial/retail quality
>>> fresh mozzarella with store-bought milk plenty of times.
>>>
>>> -sw
>>
>>
>>Your face curdles milk, apparently.
>>
>>Paul
>>
> That's an unacceptably rude reply. If quality cooks with good
> reputations can offer their recipes and methods from successful
> cheesemaking, that's enough for me. And it should be for you.
>
> I actually watched a neighbour of an aunt of mine in Italy make
> mozzarella from pasteurized milk. My problems was with the language
> and while they all tried to help, I was somewhat at a loss. Hence my
> query.

In case you missed it (actually you did miss it)I gave you the benefit of my
experience. If you want to get on your knees for a troll who offered
nothing to your query, have at it lady.

Paul

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:54:11 GMT, "Paul M. Cook" >
wrote:

>
><The Golfer's Wife> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 03:39:22 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 00:51:27 GMT, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > The key is the milk. Homogenized and pasteurized milk just does not
>>>work
>>>> > very well. You need whole, raw milk. I had no luck making moz at
>>>> > home
>>>> > until I found a source for raw milk.
>>>>
>>>> That's ridiculous. I've turned out commercial/retail quality
>>>> fresh mozzarella with store-bought milk plenty of times.
>>>>
>>>> -sw
>>>
>>>
>>>Your face curdles milk, apparently.
>>>
>>>Paul
>>>
>> That's an unacceptably rude reply. If quality cooks with good
>> reputations can offer their recipes and methods from successful
>> cheesemaking, that's enough for me. And it should be for you.
>>
>> I actually watched a neighbour of an aunt of mine in Italy make
>> mozzarella from pasteurized milk. My problems was with the language
>> and while they all tried to help, I was somewhat at a loss. Hence my
>> query.
>
>In case you missed it (actually you did miss it)I gave you the benefit of my
>experience. If you want to get on your knees for a troll who offered
>nothing to your query, have at it lady.
>
>Paul
>
you really are a charmer, aren't you paul?

your pal, blake

> In case you missed it (actually you did miss it)I gave you the benefit of my
> experience. If you want to get on your knees for a troll who offered
> nothing to your query, have at it lady.
>
> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Actually, I didn't see any benefits of your experience as you are
WRONG. I made mozzerella with no problem using pasturized milk.

"merryb" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> > In case you missed it (actually you did miss it)I gave you the benefit
of my
> > experience. If you want to get on your knees for a troll who offered
> > nothing to your query, have at it lady.
> >
> > Paul- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Actually, I didn't see any benefits of your experience as you are
> WRONG. I made mozzerella with no problem using pasturized milk.
>

It was all a lie!!!!!! I admit it!!!!! Oh the shame!!!!! I work for a
secret hate group that denigrates dairy products!!! We are out to spread
lysteria contamination!!! Louis Pasteur was a pathetic busy body and we
won't rest until his name is associated with the greatest calamity of modern
history!!!!!

Pasteurized and homogenized milk makes the BEST mozzarella. You got me,
I'll just crawl under a rock and die now!

Now get out there and make some cheese!!!!!!!

Paul

On Jul 24, 10:09 pm, Reg > wrote:
> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> > On Jul 24, 11:18 am, merryb > wrote:
>
> >>I tried for the first time back in January, and after a few tries, it
> >>worked. Someone in this group, nogoer, was extremely helpful and
> >>directed me to a website called Leener's, which has the directions I
> >>used. If you want to read our thread, it was from Jan.12 of this year,
> >>named Making Cheese. Good Luck!
>
> > REAL cheese is cultured by bacteria, NOT curdled by adding citric
> > acid.
>
> You're confusing a few issues here, poster formerly referred
> to as "Food Snob".
>
> Culturing is done on some aged cheeses to effect texture and flavor.
> Many cheeses, even aged ones, are not cultured and it's by no means
> a necessary part of the process.
>
> What you call "curdling" is properly called coagulation, and it
> is a necessary part of cheesemaking. It's how the solids are
> separated from the liquid portion of the milk.
>
> Many cheeses are coagulated with enzyme (usually rennet), but
> certainly not all. Some perfectly wonderful cheeses are coagulated
> by the acid method.
>
> In any case, whether it's an enzyme coagulated cheese or acid coagulated
> it can still be cultured as well. One does not exclude the other. They
> have nothing to do with each other, actually.

Then what would differentiate one cheese from another? Assuming
they're from the same animal, that is.
>
> --
> Reg

--Bryan

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:25:00 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> wrote:

>
>"merryb" > wrote in message
roups.com...
>>
>> > In case you missed it (actually you did miss it)I gave you the benefit
>of my
>> > experience. If you want to get on your knees for a troll who offered
>> > nothing to your query, have at it lady.
>> >
>> > Paul- Hide quoted text -
>> >
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Actually, I didn't see any benefits of your experience as you are
>> WRONG. I made mozzerella with no problem using pasturized milk.
>>
>
>It was all a lie!!!!!! I admit it!!!!! Oh the shame!!!!! I work for a
>secret hate group that denigrates dairy products!!! We are out to spread
>lysteria contamination!!! Louis Pasteur was a pathetic busy body and we
>won't rest until his name is associated with the greatest calamity of modern
>history!!!!!
>
>Pasteurized and homogenized milk makes the BEST mozzarella.

Mozzarella cannot be made with homogenized milk apparently.
Pasteurized yes, but not homogenized.

>You got me . I'll just crawl under a rock and die now!

How about that for a good suggestion then?

>Now get out there and make some cheese!!!!!!!
>
>Paul
>

The Golfer's Wife

The wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:25:00 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>"merryb" > wrote in message
groups.com...
>>
>>>>In case you missed it (actually you did miss it)I gave you the benefit
>>
>>of my
>>
>>>>experience. If you want to get on your knees for a troll who offered
>>>>nothing to your query, have at it lady.
>>>>
>>>>Paul- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>>- Show quoted text -
>>>
>>>Actually, I didn't see any benefits of your experience as you are
>>>WRONG. I made mozzerella with no problem using pasturized milk.
>>>
>>
>>It was all a lie!!!!!! I admit it!!!!! Oh the shame!!!!! I work for a
>>secret hate group that denigrates dairy products!!! We are out to spread
>>lysteria contamination!!! Louis Pasteur was a pathetic busy body and we
>>won't rest until his name is associated with the greatest calamity of modern
>>history!!!!!
>>
>>Pasteurized and homogenized milk makes the BEST mozzarella.
>
>
> Mozzarella cannot be made with homogenized milk apparently.
> Pasteurized yes, but not homogenized.
>
>
>>You got me . I'll just crawl under a rock and die now!
>
>
> How about that for a good suggestion then?
>
>
>>Now get out there and make some cheese!!!!!!!
>>
>>Paul
>>
>
>
> The Golfer's Wife

My neighbor owns an Italian restaurant. She occasionally gives me a
couple of packs of imported Italian muzz from Italian buffalo milk. It
really is unique and a treat. Damn good!

If you ever have a chance, try it. You won't regret it.

R

<The Golfer's Wife> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:25:00 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"merryb" > wrote in message
> roups.com...
> >>
> >> > In case you missed it (actually you did miss it)I gave you the
benefit
> >of my
> >> > experience. If you want to get on your knees for a troll who offered
> >> > nothing to your query, have at it lady.
> >> >
> >> > Paul- Hide quoted text -
> >> >
> >> > - Show quoted text -
> >>
> >> Actually, I didn't see any benefits of your experience as you are
> >> WRONG. I made mozzerella with no problem using pasturized milk.
> >>
> >
> >It was all a lie!!!!!! I admit it!!!!! Oh the shame!!!!! I work for
a
> >secret hate group that denigrates dairy products!!! We are out to spread
> >lysteria contamination!!! Louis Pasteur was a pathetic busy body and we
> >won't rest until his name is associated with the greatest calamity of
modern
> >history!!!!!
> >
> >Pasteurized and homogenized milk makes the BEST mozzarella.
>
> Mozzarella cannot be made with homogenized milk apparently.
> Pasteurized yes, but not homogenized.

You will find the pasteurization also destroys the enzymes in the milk which
aid in cheese making. Cheese makers all around the world make cheese from
cow fresh milk a mere hours earlier in the cow. There's a reason why they
do this.

> >You got me . I'll just crawl under a rock and die now!
>
> How about that for a good suggestion then?

Tell ya what, sweetie. Make two batches, raw and pasteurized. You tell me
which turns out remarkably better.

Paul

Bobo Bonobo® wrote:

> Then what would differentiate one cheese from another? Assuming
> they're from the same animal, that is.


The variety or breed of the animal.
The grass or diet the animal is pasturing on.
The fat content of the milk.
Pasteurization.
Homogenization.
The particular enzyme used.
Time the cheese in aged.
Temperature at every stage.
Salt.
Treatment of rind.
The cheese making process: cooking, salting, separation of whey, cutting
curds.


Cheese is as complex and fascinating as wine. Take a look at a book or
webpage that deals with basic cheese making techniques. You'll find
more variables than I listed.


--Lia

On Jul 26, 8:28 am, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> > Then what would differentiate one cheese from another? Assuming
> > they're from the same animal, that is.
>
> The variety or breed of the animal.
> The grass or diet the animal is pasturing on.
> The fat content of the milk.
> Pasteurization.
> Homogenization.
> The particular enzyme used.
> Time the cheese in aged.
> Temperature at every stage.
> Salt.
> Treatment of rind.
> The cheese making process: cooking, salting, separation of whey, cutting
> curds.
>
> Cheese is as complex and fascinating as wine. Take a look at a book or
> webpage that deals with basic cheese making techniques. You'll find
> more variables than I listed.

In the recipe in question http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser..._American.html
There was no "enzyme." I was asking what differentiates say,
provolone from cheddar? How is this:

INGREDIENTS:

1 gallon milk (I used cow's milk, homogenized, pasteurized, 3.5%
butter fat)
1¼ teaspoon citric acid powder (from local pharmacy) dissolved
in ½ cup cool water
½ tablet Junket rennet (from local supermarket) suspended in ¼
cup cool water

How is the above supposed to make mozzarella?
>
> --Lia

--Bryan

Bobo Bonobo® wrote:

> I was asking what differentiates say,
> provolone from cheddar?


I need to add different recipes and naming practices to my list of
variables. Cheddar and Provolone are both cheeses that can be made in
many countries with many recipes with many results. There's no one
standard recipe for either. I've seen cheese marketed as "provolone"
when the only resemblance to a true Italian Provolone is generally
rounded shape. "Cheddaring" is a cheese-making process.


You're asking good questions, but the answers are more complicated than
can be given on usenet. You need whole books and an understanding of
the whole process before you can zero in on specific variations. I'm
remembering the time I got on a garden group and asked which varieties
of roses had the classic rose aroma. I wasn't trolling when I asked. I
learned that the answer is vastly more complicated than I thought.


--Lia

On Jul 26, 8:40 am, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> > I was asking what differentiates say,
> > provolone from cheddar?
>
> I need to add different recipes and naming practices to my list of
> variables. Cheddar and Provolone are both cheeses that can be made in
> many countries with many recipes with many results. There's no one
> standard recipe for either. I've seen cheese marketed as "provolone"
> when the only resemblance to a true Italian Provolone is generally
> rounded shape. "Cheddaring" is a cheese-making process.
>
> You're asking good questions, but the answers are more complicated than
> can be given on usenet. You need whole books and an understanding of
> the whole process before you can zero in on specific variations. I'm
> remembering the time I got on a garden group and asked which varieties
> of roses had the classic rose aroma.

Did you see the "recipe"?

> I wasn't trolling when I asked. I
> learned that the answer is vastly more complicated than I thought.
>
I didn't think you were trolling. I just didn't see how radically
differrent cheeses could be made simply by using citric acid.

> --Lia

Bobo Bonobo® wrote:

> I didn't think you were trolling. I just didn't see how radically
> differrent cheeses could be made simply by using citric acid.


It looks like I keep misunderstanding your question. Sorry I can't help.


--Lia

Bobo Bonobo® wrote:

> On Jul 26, 8:28 am, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
>
>>Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
>>
>>>Then what would differentiate one cheese from another? Assuming
>>>they're from the same animal, that is.
>>
>>The variety or breed of the animal.
>>The grass or diet the animal is pasturing on.
>>The fat content of the milk.
>>Pasteurization.
>>Homogenization.
>>The particular enzyme used.
>>Time the cheese in aged.
>>Temperature at every stage.
>>Salt.
>>Treatment of rind.
>>The cheese making process: cooking, salting, separation of whey, cutting
>>curds.
>>
>>Cheese is as complex and fascinating as wine. Take a look at a book or
>>webpage that deals with basic cheese making techniques. You'll find
>>more variables than I listed.
>
>
> In the recipe in question http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser..._American.html
> There was no "enzyme." I was asking what differentiates say,
> provolone from cheddar?

You're asking very good questions. It took a lot of cheesemaking
before it began to make real sense to me. I rememeber having the same
experience when I was learning breadmaking. I was amazed at how the
same/similar ingredients could produce such different results.
Often radically different results.

It's natural for people to associate food a preparation with what's
in it, the ingredients. However, There are some food products where the
ingredients play much less of a role than the process of making it, i.e.
the technique. Cheesemaking is definitely in that category. Very similar
to the way a baker can take flour, water, yeast and salt and produce many
different and distinct varieties of bread.

Provolone vs cheddar is as an excellent example. Provolone is
a "pasta filata" cheese that's made by melting and stretching cheese
curds, then aging it. Technique here.

Cheddar is made by cutting the cheese curds a specific way, then
stacking and flipping them at timed intervals. This technique
for modifying the texture, moisture content, and pH is called
"cheddaring". So here we have type of cheese that's actually named
after a specific cheesemaking technique. It's a testament to how
important technique is to the whole process.


> How is this:
>
> INGREDIENTS:
>
> 1 gallon milk (I used cow's milk, homogenized, pasteurized, 3.5%
> butter fat)
> 1¼ teaspoon citric acid powder (from local pharmacy) dissolved
> in ½ cup cool water
> ½ tablet Junket rennet (from local supermarket) suspended in ¼
> cup cool water
>
> How is the above supposed to make mozzarella?

You have to add in the "pasta filata" melting and stretching technique
(same as is used in making provolone) before you begin to have a
complete recipe. You often can't tell what a cheese is just by the
ingredient list.

--
Reg

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:25:00 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> wrote:

>
>"merryb" > wrote in message
roups.com...
>>
>> > In case you missed it (actually you did miss it)I gave you the benefit
>of my
>> > experience. If you want to get on your knees for a troll who offered
>> > nothing to your query, have at it lady.
>> >
>> > Paul- Hide quoted text -
>> >
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Actually, I didn't see any benefits of your experience as you are
>> WRONG. I made mozzerella with no problem using pasturized milk.
>>
>
>It was all a lie!!!!!! I admit it!!!!! Oh the shame!!!!! I work for a
>secret hate group that denigrates dairy products!!! We are out to spread
>lysteria contamination!!! Louis Pasteur was a pathetic busy body and we
>won't rest until his name is associated with the greatest calamity of modern
>history!!!!!
>
>Pasteurized and homogenized milk makes the BEST mozzarella. You got me,
>I'll just crawl under a rock and die now!
>
>Now get out there and make some cheese!!!!!!!
>
>Paul
>

no, you just posted something that was wrong. not at all unique in
your case.

your pal,
blake

Reg wrote:

> Provolone vs cheddar is as an excellent example. Provolone is
> a "pasta filata" cheese that's made by melting and stretching cheese
> curds, then aging it. Technique here.
>
> Cheddar is made by cutting the cheese curds a specific way, then
> stacking and flipping them at timed intervals. This technique
> for modifying the texture, moisture content, and pH is called
> "cheddaring". So here we have type of cheese that's actually named
> after a specific cheesemaking technique. It's a testament to how
> important technique is to the whole process.

> You have to add in the "pasta filata" melting and stretching technique
> (same as is used in making provolone) before you begin to have a
> complete recipe. You often can't tell what a cheese is just by the
> ingredient list.


Thanks. I worked in a wine and cheese shop for 2 years but had never
run across the term "pasta filata" before. I googled and liked this
article:

http://www.cheesereporter.com/Nevill...lle.may.31.htm


This one describes the different cheeses with different textures made
with the method:

http://www.recipezaar.com/library/getentry.zsp?id=914


Here are pictures of the cheeses:

http://www.murrayscheese.com/searchp...volone&x=0&y=0


When I think of provolone now, I think of Provolone Buonatavola because
that was a favorite when I was working in the shop. It's a hard cheese,
gratable, not stretchy. I started using it on pasta instead of parmesan.


That Murray's page is a good one to look around because the cheeses are
categorized by type, country of origin, milk type, pasteurization,
rennet. There are other ways to categorize, but that's a good
introduction to how one cheese can be categorized different ways and how
there can be many differences between cheeses.


--Lia

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:50:19 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> wrote:
(BIG snip)

>> >Pasteurized and homogenized milk makes the BEST mozzarella.
>>
>> Mozzarella cannot be made with homogenized milk apparently.
>> Pasteurized yes, but not homogenized.
>
>You will find the pasteurization also destroys the enzymes in the milk which
>aid in cheese making. Cheese makers all around the world make cheese from
>cow fresh milk a mere hours earlier in the cow. There's a reason why they
>do this.
>
>> >You got me . I'll just crawl under a rock and die now!
>>
>> How about that for a good suggestion then?
>
>Tell ya what, sweetie. Make two batches, raw and pasteurized. You tell me
>which turns out remarkably better.
>
>Paul
>
Ok Paull, now let me tell YOU something! New Zealand cheese is
exported to many countries, but the usual restrictions of trade apply
to cheese from New Zealand from countries like the USA and the EU.
New Zealand is not permitted to sell raw milk or cheese made with raw
milk locally, and this extends to exporting cheese because of this
local ban.. And you may wonder why is raw milk and raw milk products
(like cheese, buttermilk, etc.) not allowed? Well the reason is
this:

Around 30-40 years ago many cow herds in New Zealand were infected
with tuberculosis, which pasteurization apparently eliminates. There
have been appeals recently for government regulation on raw milk for
cheesemaking to be permitted, but no luck so far I think.

(No one appears to have ever queried whether European dairy herds, or
Australian, or anywhere else for that matter are tested for TB. Who
would know?) But it has certainly been a big problem with the newer
more innovative New Zealand cheesemakers

I agree that raw milk does generally make the better cheese - not all
of course - doesn't make a lot of difference to the average grating
cheddar or gouda or many of the other Dutch varieties.

I have just returned from a month in Italy where I indulged my fetish
for bufalo mozzarella just about every day. Yes it is wonderful, and
of course it is from raw bufalo milk. I liked Fontina cheese there
and the sticky runny Gorgonzola from the market.

I am stuck with pasteurized milk I am afraid, for better or worse. I
can get unhomogenized milk - which some people seem to think is
superior for mozzarella. I think that adding rennet and citric acid
to coagulate the milk must be something needed because the milk may
not be raw. But I don't know that for sure.

It is midwinter now and I don't think I will make these summer-type
cheeses for a while. I might start with ricotta as it seems a more
simple task. Incidentally I can remember my mother used to regularly
make cottage cheese when I was a child but whether the milk was then
raw or pasteurized I don't know. It was certainly NOT homogenized
because that milk treatment method was introduced much later.

Cheers


The Golfer's Wife

<The Golfer's Wife> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:50:19 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> > wrote:
> (BIG snip)
>
> >> >Pasteurized and homogenized milk makes the BEST mozzarella.
> >>
> >> Mozzarella cannot be made with homogenized milk apparently.
> >> Pasteurized yes, but not homogenized.
> >
> >You will find the pasteurization also destroys the enzymes in the milk
which
> >aid in cheese making. Cheese makers all around the world make cheese
from
> >cow fresh milk a mere hours earlier in the cow. There's a reason why
they
> >do this.
> >
> >> >You got me . I'll just crawl under a rock and die now!
> >>
> >> How about that for a good suggestion then?
> >
> >Tell ya what, sweetie. Make two batches, raw and pasteurized. You tell
me
> >which turns out remarkably better.
> >
> >Paul
> >
> Ok Paull, now let me tell YOU something! New Zealand cheese is
> exported to many countries, but the usual restrictions of trade apply
> to cheese from New Zealand from countries like the USA and the EU.
> New Zealand is not permitted to sell raw milk or cheese made with raw
> milk locally, and this extends to exporting cheese because of this
> local ban.. And you may wonder why is raw milk and raw milk products
> (like cheese, buttermilk, etc.) not allowed? Well the reason is
> this:
>
> Around 30-40 years ago many cow herds in New Zealand were infected
> with tuberculosis, which pasteurization apparently eliminates. There
> have been appeals recently for government regulation on raw milk for
> cheesemaking to be permitted, but no luck so far I think.
>
> (No one appears to have ever queried whether European dairy herds, or
> Australian, or anywhere else for that matter are tested for TB. Who
> would know?) But it has certainly been a big problem with the newer
> more innovative New Zealand cheesemakers
>
> I agree that raw milk does generally make the better cheese - not all
> of course - doesn't make a lot of difference to the average grating
> cheddar or gouda or many of the other Dutch varieties.
>
> I have just returned from a month in Italy where I indulged my fetish
> for bufalo mozzarella just about every day. Yes it is wonderful, and
> of course it is from raw bufalo milk. I liked Fontina cheese there
> and the sticky runny Gorgonzola from the market.
>
> I am stuck with pasteurized milk I am afraid, for better or worse. I
> can get unhomogenized milk - which some people seem to think is
> superior for mozzarella. I think that adding rennet and citric acid
> to coagulate the milk must be something needed because the milk may
> not be raw. But I don't know that for sure.
>
> It is midwinter now and I don't think I will make these summer-type
> cheeses for a while. I might start with ricotta as it seems a more
> simple task. Incidentally I can remember my mother used to regularly
> make cottage cheese when I was a child but whether the milk was then
> raw or pasteurized I don't know. It was certainly NOT homogenized
> because that milk treatment method was introduced much later.
>
> Cheers


Well not everyone can make anything, any time. I'd like to make a lot of
things I buy in stores, like cheeses, yogurt, tofu, etc. But its rarely
worth the time and the hassle. Fun as it was to make mozzarella it was a
royal pain to get the raw milk. I practically had to sign a writ of
indemnity, you'd think unpasteurized milk was akin to toxic waste. Then I
could only get rennet via mail order. By the time all was said and done I
probably paid 10 bucks for a one pound ball of cheese. It can be a bit
messy too, and while the result was quite tasty, really its no better than
what I can get at a local deli. Pasteurized milk works, OK, it just doesn;t
give you the really firm solid curd that works best.

It's fun, it's a hobby, but its probably not something you'll do very often.

Paul