I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please check
in and let us know you're okay!

Jill

jmcquown wrote:
>
> I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
> collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please check
> in and let us know you're okay!
>
> Jill

Looks pretty bad, not just one section falling, the whole damn thing
came down. Already three confirmed fatalities and I don't think they
even have any info back from divers yet.

In article >,
"jmcquown" > wrote:

> I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
> collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please check
> in and let us know you're okay!
>
> Jill

We are fine, The bridge is about 17 miles north of us. It is one Rob
crosses to go to the University and that I cross to visit my family on
that end of town. It's a f*cking catastrophe. Emergency crews are
performing like champs. Thanks for asking.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

jmcquown wrote:
> I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
> collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please check
> in and let us know you're okay!

And that was from the '60s. I'd think there were lot of older bridges
still carrying traffic.


--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

In article >, "Pete C." >
wrote:

> jmcquown wrote:
> >
> > I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
> > collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please check
> > in and let us know you're okay!
> >
> > Jill
>
> Looks pretty bad, not just one section falling, the whole damn thing
> came down. Already three confirmed fatalities and I don't think they
> even have any info back from divers yet.

Large parts of the infrastructure here in the states are poorly
maintained, yet billions of dollars are sent to Iraq. Insane! I am truly
sorry for the families who lost people in that bridge collapse.

Stan Horwitz wrote:
>
> In article >, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> > jmcquown wrote:
> > >
> > > I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
> > > collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please check
> > > in and let us know you're okay!
> > >
> > > Jill
> >
> > Looks pretty bad, not just one section falling, the whole damn thing
> > came down. Already three confirmed fatalities and I don't think they
> > even have any info back from divers yet.
>
> Large parts of the infrastructure here in the states are poorly
> maintained, yet billions of dollars are sent to Iraq. Insane! I am truly
> sorry for the families who lost people in that bridge collapse.

The billions sent to Iraq are a drop in the bucket and while not being
particularly well spent are at least being thrown in the direction of a
very real threat. A good chunk of our tax dollars are being wasted on
well intentioned but counterproductive "humanitarian aid". The largest
portion of our tax dollars however are being wasted right here in the
US.

"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "jmcquown" > wrote:
>
>> I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
>> collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please
>> check
>> in and let us know you're okay!
>>
>> Jill
>
> We are fine, The bridge is about 17 miles north of us. It is one Rob
> crosses to go to the University and that I cross to visit my family on
> that end of town. It's a f*cking catastrophe. Emergency crews are
> performing like champs. Thanks for asking.
> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ

Getting out the candles....beads ain't part of it here.
Love,
Edrena

In article > ,
"The Joneses" > wrote:

> "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "jmcquown" > wrote:
> >
> >> I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
> >> collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please
> >> check
> >> in and let us know you're okay!
> >>
> >> Jill
> >
> > We are fine, The bridge is about 17 miles north of us. It is one Rob
> > crosses to go to the University and that I cross to visit my family on
> > that end of town. It's a f*cking catastrophe. Emergency crews are
> > performing like champs. Thanks for asking.
> > --
> > -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
>
> Getting out the candles....beads ain't part of it here.
> Love,
> Edrena

Light a bonfire, Girlfriend. This is going to make for one helluva mess
for a long time. That's a major thoroughfare from the downtown area to
a lot of places north and to the U. Just learned that my grandnephew (a
champion swimmer) is on the dive team ‹ he got certified yesterday. :-)
Another freakin' adrenalin junkie in the family. Hotter'n Hades,
too. They've moved from rescue to recovery. Uffda. Sixty youngsters
were on a bus that was involved. All safe, some injured. It's a
murrcle. Newscasters have now moved to the stupid commentary and appear
to be playing chicken as to who's going to return to regular scheduled
programming first.

Rob's got his alternate route to the U already figured out. Still a
month before he has to use it.

God be with them.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

jmcquown wrote:

> I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St.
> Paul collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River.
> Please check in and let us know you're okay!

I was nowhere near that bridge, and I have an alibi!


--
Dan Goodman
"You, each of you, have some special wild cards. Play with them.
Find out what makes you different and better. Because it is there,
if only you can find it." Vernor Vinge, _Rainbows End_
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://dangoodman.livejournal.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> "jmcquown" > wrote:
>
>> I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St.
>> Paul collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River.
>> Please check in and let us know you're okay!
>>
>> Jill
>
> We are fine, The bridge is about 17 miles north of us. It is one Rob
> crosses to go to the University and that I cross to visit my family on
> that end of town. It's a f*cking catastrophe. Emergency crews are
> performing like champs. Thanks for asking.

Wow, I haven't had the news on, so thanks for reporting this Jill. Barb, I
hope your family and friends are okay. Anyone else in the area, I also pray
for your loved ones.

kili

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
>
> We are fine, The bridge is about 17 miles north of us. It is one Rob
> crosses to go to the University and that I cross to visit my family on
> that end of town. It's a f*cking catastrophe. Emergency crews are
> performing like champs. Thanks for asking.

Glad to hear that you and yours were not involved. I imagine that will mess
up traffic in the area for a while.

FWIW... I just took a look at the bridge on Goole Maps and the bridge looks
a little funky. It seems to have a bit of a wow to the right (east) right
about the middle of the river. I thought perhaps it was arched, but the
shadow in the water looks straight.

kilikini wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "jmcquown" > wrote:
> >
> >> I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St.
> >> Paul collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River.
> >> Please check in and let us know you're okay!
> > >
> > We are fine, The bridge is about 17 miles north of us. It is one
> > Rob crosses to go to the University and that I cross to visit my
> > family on that end of town. It's a f*cking catastrophe. Emergency
> > crews are performing like champs. Thanks for asking.
>
> Wow, I haven't had the news on, so thanks for reporting this Jill.
> Barb, I hope your family and friends are okay. Anyone else in the
> area, I also pray for your loved ones.

I heard about it on LiveJournal.


--
Dan Goodman
"You, each of you, have some special wild cards. Play with them.
Find out what makes you different and better. Because it is there,
if only you can find it." Vernor Vinge, _Rainbows End_
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://dangoodman.livejournal.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood

"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "jmcquown" > wrote:
>
>> I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
>> collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please check
>> in and let us know you're okay!
>>
>> Jill
>
> We are fine, The bridge is about 17 miles north of us. It is one Rob
> crosses to go to the University and that I cross to visit my family on
> that end of town. It's a f*cking catastrophe. Emergency crews are
> performing like champs. Thanks for asking.
> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
> pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

SO glad to hear it, Barb. I was on the phone earlier with Sheila, who had been
calling her kids and my brothers to make sure they were all ok too. My heart goes out
to everyone involved, especially the missing and deceased.

kimberly

Dave Smith wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>
>>
>> We are fine, The bridge is about 17 miles north of us. It is one Rob
>> crosses to go to the University and that I cross to visit my family
>> on that end of town. It's a f*cking catastrophe. Emergency crews
>> are performing like champs. Thanks for asking.
>
> Glad to hear that you and yours were not involved. I imagine that
> will mess up traffic in the area for a while.
>
> FWIW... I just took a look at the bridge on Goole Maps and the bridge
> looks a little funky. It seems to have a bit of a wow to the right
> (east) right about the middle of the river. I thought perhaps it was
> arched, but the shadow in the water looks straight.

It's not arched and it was pretty darned straight. John and I crossed that
bridge quite a bit last year when we were there doing an art show. He's
(and maybe me) supposed to be back up there in September for the Edina
show... he doesn't know about this disaster yet. Candles lit for the
families of those affected.

Jill

On Aug 1, 9:49 pm, Blinky the Shark > wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
> > I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
> > collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please check
> > in and let us know you're okay!
>
> And that was from the '60s. I'd think there were lot of older bridges
> still carrying traffic.
>
> --
> Blinky RLU 297263
> Killing all posts from Google Groups
> The Usenet Improvement Project:http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

This morning they're saying that the design was one that (hopefully)
was not repeated very often. No pylons, and no suspension supports
for a large chunk of the span, just the roadbed and beams under it for
support. My guess is the current work which had lanes closed put too
much stress on one side of the highway. Lots of barge traffic in the
area, so they didn't want to impede or put too many obstacles in the
way. Now they have all that nice rubble to clear out (while looking
for the ~50 missing cars/people) which will impede barge traffic for a
loooong time.

Grateful all our crew are unharmed, sorrow for those involved.

maxine in ri

maxine in ri wrote:

> This morning they're saying that the design was one that (hopefully)
> was not repeated very often. No pylons, and no suspension supports
> for a large chunk of the span, just the roadbed and beams under it for
> support. My guess is the current work which had lanes closed put too
> much stress on one side of the highway. Lots of barge traffic in the
> area, so they didn't want to impede or put too many obstacles in the
> way. Now they have all that nice rubble to clear out (while looking
> for the ~50 missing cars/people) which will impede barge traffic for a
> loooong time.

I don't think the work on the road surface had anything to do with
it. Cutting down the net amount of traffic would result in less stress
on the structure, not more.

I think this event will reveal some fundamental flaws in their
inspection regime. Whatever caused it, whether it's erosion
of the pylons (known as scouring, it has caused collapses
before. A major incident occurred in upstate NY) or deterioration
of the structure itself, it should have been caught by their normal
inspection regime.

--
Reg

"maxine in ri" > wrote

> support. My guess is the current work which had lanes closed put too
> much stress on one side of the highway.

Once on Mythbusters there was something about the stress on
steel and how, if you got a vibration going at just the perfect
rate, you could bring down a building. I know they were
resurfacing, I wonder about those machines that chew up the
asphalt for replacement. They usually don't just repave over
bridges, they grind some of the asphalt load off. Of course we
will find out eventually, seems like maybe it was a combination of the
heat and the construction activity along with some weakness that
did this bridge in. Those poor people.

nancy

Reg said...

> maxine in ri wrote:
>
>> This morning they're saying that the design was one that (hopefully)
>> was not repeated very often. No pylons, and no suspension supports
>> for a large chunk of the span, just the roadbed and beams under it for
>> support. My guess is the current work which had lanes closed put too
>> much stress on one side of the highway. Lots of barge traffic in the
>> area, so they didn't want to impede or put too many obstacles in the
>> way. Now they have all that nice rubble to clear out (while looking
>> for the ~50 missing cars/people) which will impede barge traffic for a
>> loooong time.
>
> I don't think the work on the road surface had anything to do with
> it. Cutting down the net amount of traffic would result in less stress
> on the structure, not more.
>
> I think this event will reveal some fundamental flaws in their
> inspection regime. Whatever caused it, whether it's erosion
> of the pylons (known as scouring, it has caused collapses
> before. A major incident occurred in upstate NY) or deterioration
> of the structure itself, it should have been caught by their normal
> inspection regime.


You certainly have to hope it wasn't gross negligence on the part of bridge
inspectors and/or owners.

A restaurant at the end of a pier in Philly collapsed into the Delaware
river killing several diners. A report claimed inspectors warned the two
restaurant owners that the pier was unstable and the court found the owners
guilty of negligence. Six years later, this year, the two owners were
sentenced to just months in jail for what amounts to murder, imho.

Doesn't justice SUCK sometimes?!!

God bless the lost souls of the 35 W bridge collapse.

Andy

Andy wrote:

> Reg said...
>
>>
>>I think this event will reveal some fundamental flaws in their
>>inspection regime. Whatever caused it, whether it's erosion
>>of the pylons (known as scouring, it has caused collapses
>>before. A major incident occurred in upstate NY) or deterioration
>>of the structure itself, it should have been caught by their normal
>>inspection regime.
>
> You certainly have to hope it wasn't gross negligence on the part of bridge
> inspectors and/or owners.

It could be partly their responsibity. It could also be a matter of
outdated methods.

Both the airline and high speed rail industries have evolved in
their inspection methods as technology has improved. In general,
both industries discovered the limitations of relying on visual
inspections and began using more sophisticated instruments
to check components for hidden flaws. Unfortunately the learning
process involved the loss of many lives.

--
Reg

On Aug 1, 9:34 pm, "Pete C." > wrote:
> Stan Horwitz wrote:
>
> > In article >, "Pete C." >
> > wrote:
>
> > > jmcquown wrote:
>
> > > > I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
> > > > collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please check
> > > > in and let us know you're okay!
>
> > > > Jill
>
> > > Looks pretty bad, not just one section falling, the whole damn thing
> > > came down. Already three confirmed fatalities and I don't think they
> > > even have any info back from divers yet.
>
> > Large parts of the infrastructure here in the states are poorly
> > maintained, yet billions of dollars are sent to Iraq. Insane! I am truly
> > sorry for the families who lost people in that bridge collapse.
>
> The billions sent to Iraq are a drop in the bucket

EXCUSE ME!?!? Just "a drop in the bucket"????

> and while not being particularly well spent are at least being thrown in the
> direction of a very real threat.

Are you one of those folks who believe that Saddam Hussein was
involved in the 9-11 attacks, perhaps even after the Liar-in-Chief
admitted he was not?

> A good chunk of our tax dollars are being wasted on
> well intentioned but counterproductive "humanitarian aid".

Funny Uncle Sam gives candy to little countries because he wants
what's in their little panties.*

> The largest portion of our tax dollars however are being wasted right here in the
> US.

OK, here's a challenge. Tell us EXACTLY WHAT that "largest portion of
our tax dollars" "are being wasted" on "right here in the US."

--Bryan

* FUNNY UNCLE SAM

Blowing back
to bite your ass.
You're a funny uncle,
Uncle Sam.

Agent Orange,
Viet Nam.
My funny uncle,
Uncle Sam.

Come here little country,
Won't you sit upon my knee?
I'll read to you from my story book.
It's called, "Democracy."

But look at where he's
put his hand!
Your funny uncle,
Uncle Sam.

On Aug 2, 12:24 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > We are fine, The bridge is about 17 miles north of us. It is one Rob
> > crosses to go to the University and that I cross to visit my family on
> > that end of town. It's a f*cking catastrophe. Emergency crews are
> > performing like champs. Thanks for asking.
>
> Glad to hear that you and yours were not involved. I imagine that will mess
> up traffic in the area for a while.
>
> FWIW... I just took a look at the bridge on Goole Maps and the bridge looks
> a little funky. It seems to have a bit of a wow to the right (east) right
> about the middle of the river. I thought perhaps it was arched, but the
> shadow in the water looks straight.

Google Maps is showing either high resolution satellite images or
aerial photographs. The rectification procedure that either data has
been put through to make the pictures orthogonal will distort the
shapes of features that aren't near the center of the image. The
bridge was level and straight. I read that it was designed without
support in the main channel of the river so it couldn't have a bend
there.

Susan B.

sueb wrote:
>
>
> >
> > FWIW... I just took a look at the bridge on Goole Maps and the bridge looks
> > a little funky. It seems to have a bit of a wow to the right (east) right
> > about the middle of the river. I thought perhaps it was arched, but the
> > shadow in the water looks straight.
>
> Google Maps is showing either high resolution satellite images or
> aerial photographs. The rectification procedure that either data has
> been put through to make the pictures orthogonal will distort the
> shapes of features that aren't near the center of the image. The
> bridge was level and straight. I read that it was designed without
> support in the main channel of the river so it couldn't have a bend


I realize that high tech equipment and processes are sometimes lead to
slight distortions. I just thought it was a hell of a coincidence that a
bridge showing an aberration like that happened to collapse.

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:


> FWIW... I just took a look at the bridge on Goole Maps and the bridge looks
> a little funky. It seems to have a bit of a wow to the right (east) right
> about the middle of the river. I thought perhaps it was arched, but the
> shadow in the water looks straight.

Thanks.
Flat bridge deck across the water; arched below. I can't find a
"before" picture.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

In article >,
"kilikini" > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "jmcquown" > wrote:
> >
> >> I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St.
> >> Paul collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River.
> >> Please check in and let us know you're okay!
> >>
> >> Jill
> >
> > We are fine, The bridge is about 17 miles north of us. It is one Rob
> > crosses to go to the University and that I cross to visit my family on
> > that end of town. It's a f*cking catastrophe. Emergency crews are
> > performing like champs. Thanks for asking.
>
> Wow, I haven't had the news on, so thanks for reporting this Jill. Barb, I
> hope your family and friends are okay. Anyone else in the area, I also pray
> for your loved ones.
>
> kili

Thanks, Kili.
I mailed this to a friend this morning:
I've just been watching a news conference at Hennepin County Medical
Center -- a Level 1 trauma center and a teaching hospital downtown. Way
interesting! They practice this stuff several times a year, I gather.
First thing the ER folks had to do was decide the severity of the
"disaster." They don't do the determination casually because it calls
up serious resources and personnel. They paged out a Code Orange
disaster, which called in all the nurses and surgeons (don't know
who/what else). Doc said, "Then we did what we are trained to do."
They cleared 25 ICU beds in 30 minutes! I don't know about you, but
that impresses the hell out of me. Due to HIPAA regulations, docs said
almost nothing about the hospitalized. Reporters tried to rephrase, but
he was pretty firm with "those are all individual cases which we cannot
comment on."

People helping people was an important part -- 60 pre-teens/early teens
were rescued -- some injuries, some serious, mostly bruises. The bus
being stopped by a guardrail saved their bacon. One reporter was
trying to get to "the area" and was stopped by a "citizen" who said,
"The police have told people to stay away from the area, to not come
down, so I'm not letting you get past me." LOL! Love it. Good
Samaritans.

My grandnephew (firefighter in training, EMT, paramedic) is part of the
dive team. He just got certified on Tuesday. :-)

Glen Taylor, MN Timberwolves owner, was holding a news conference to
discuss the trade of Kevin Garnett to Boston Celtics and learned his
granddaughter was involved in the collapse. He was pretty emotional and
said she's ok.

Death counts are varying -- last night some were saying 9; this morning
the Mpls Police Chief says they can confirm four. They had folks
checking hospitals based on car license registrations for the cars on
the bridge and in the water.

Local tv stations are wcco.com, kstp.com, kare11.com; startribune.com --
all will likely have pics and stories you won't see or hear on CNN or
the Today show. I'm proud to be a Minnesotan.

CNN has a video from a security camera of the bridge dropping.

Thanks for asking.
-Barb
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > FWIW... I just took a look at the bridge on Goole Maps and the bridge looks
> > a little funky. It seems to have a bit of a wow to the right (east) right
> > about the middle of the river. I thought perhaps it was arched, but the
> > shadow in the water looks straight.
>
> Thanks.
> Flat bridge deck across the water; arched below. I can't find a
> "before" picture.

Oops.. I stand corrected. I was looking at a section of bridge in I 35
further south. I had zoomed in on a bridge over a narrow band of water that
I had assumed was the Mississippi River, but when I looked at it again just
now I realized that was not it.

"Pete C." > wrote in message
...
>
> The billions sent to Iraq are a drop in the bucket and while not being
> particularly well spent are at least being thrown in the direction of a
> very real threat.

What threat???

"MareCat" > wrote in
:

> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> The billions sent to Iraq are a drop in the bucket and while not being
>> particularly well spent are at least being thrown in the direction of a
>> very real threat.
>
> What threat???
>
>
>


Go hug a ****ing tree, then go stick your head back in the sand like a good
little ostrich.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

"People sleep safely in their beds because rough men stand ready in
the night to do violence to those who would do them harm"
-- George Orwell

Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
>
> On Aug 1, 9:34 pm, "Pete C." > wrote:
> > Stan Horwitz wrote:
> >
> > > In article >, "Pete C." >
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > jmcquown wrote:
> >
> > > > > I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
> > > > > collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please check
> > > > > in and let us know you're okay!
> >
> > > > > Jill
> >
> > > > Looks pretty bad, not just one section falling, the whole damn thing
> > > > came down. Already three confirmed fatalities and I don't think they
> > > > even have any info back from divers yet.
> >
> > > Large parts of the infrastructure here in the states are poorly
> > > maintained, yet billions of dollars are sent to Iraq. Insane! I am truly
> > > sorry for the families who lost people in that bridge collapse.
> >
> > The billions sent to Iraq are a drop in the bucket
>
> EXCUSE ME!?!? Just "a drop in the bucket"????

Compare a few hundred billion to the many trillions of the national
budget. Iraq is a drop in the bucket, don't let the "billion" fool you,
relative to the total national budget, Iraq is the equivalent of your
morning coffee budget.

>
> > and while not being particularly well spent are at least being thrown in the
> > direction of a very real threat.
>
> Are you one of those folks who believe that Saddam Hussein was
> involved in the 9-11 attacks, perhaps even after the Liar-in-Chief
> admitted he was not?

No, I'm one of the folks who knows the real story with the WMDs from
someone who was in Iraq on the UNSCOM team and saw them first hand.

>
> > A good chunk of our tax dollars are being wasted on
> > well intentioned but counterproductive "humanitarian aid".
>
> Funny Uncle Sam gives candy to little countries because he wants
> what's in their little panties.*

That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to the feel good
humanitarian aid given to countries that have nothing we want, and only
server to exacerbate the problems in those countries.

>
> > The largest portion of our tax dollars however are being wasted right here in the
> > US.
>
> OK, here's a challenge. Tell us EXACTLY WHAT that "largest portion of
> our tax dollars" "are being wasted" on "right here in the US."

Little things like the "war on drugs" which also includes a lot of
foreign spending and by all objective assessments accomplishes next to
nothing. Various superstition... er... "faith" based programs. Pet pork
projects. Etc.

MareCat wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > The billions sent to Iraq are a drop in the bucket and while not being
> > particularly well spent are at least being thrown in the direction of a
> > very real threat.
>
> What threat???

Religious extremists / terrorists. Keep them busy there and it's hard
for them to get to us here.

"Pete C." wrote:
>
> The billions sent to Iraq are a drop in the bucket and while not being
> particularly well spent are at least being thrown in the direction of a
> very real threat. A good chunk of our tax dollars are being wasted on
> well intentioned but counterproductive "humanitarian aid". The largest
> portion of our tax dollars however are being wasted right here in the
> US.

Pray tell.... what threat is that? The administration admitted that there
was no link between Iraq and 9/11. They also admitted that there turned out
to be no WMDs, just as the weapons inspectors had reported. After
dismissing the advice of numbers security advisors that there were no WMDs
and that invading Iraq was a bad idea, Bush found people to tell him what
he wanted them to say and went ahead. Iraq was no threat to the US. The
biggest threat to the US seems to be sitting in the Oval Office.

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> In article > ,
> "The Joneses" > wrote:
>
> > "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article >,
> > > "jmcquown" > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul
> > >> collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi River. Please
> > >> check
> > >> in and let us know you're okay!
> > >>
> > >> Jill
> > >
> > > We are fine, The bridge is about 17 miles north of us. It is one Rob
> > > crosses to go to the University and that I cross to visit my family on
> > > that end of town. It's a f*cking catastrophe. Emergency crews are
> > > performing like champs. Thanks for asking.
> > > --
> > > -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> >
> > Getting out the candles....beads ain't part of it here.
> > Love,
> > Edrena
>
> Light a bonfire, Girlfriend. This is going to make for one helluva mess
> for a long time. That's a major thoroughfare from the downtown area to
> a lot of places north and to the U. Just learned that my grandnephew (a
> champion swimmer) is on the dive team ‹ he got certified yesterday. :-)

'Scuse me??? Got certified yesterday??? Who the f' lets a newly
certified diver, champion swimmer or not, on a recovery team at an
extremely hazardous site???

Pete C.

(Open water / Nitrox and I sure as hell wouldn't be diving there)

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> >
> > > FWIW... I just took a look at the bridge on Goole Maps and the bridge
> > > looks
> > > a little funky. It seems to have a bit of a wow to the right (east) right
> > > about the middle of the river. I thought perhaps it was arched, but the
> > > shadow in the water looks straight.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Flat bridge deck across the water; arched below. I can't find a
> > "before" picture.
>
> Oops.. I stand corrected. I was looking at a section of bridge in I 35
> further south. I had zoomed in on a bridge over a narrow band of water that
> I had assumed was the Mississippi River, but when I looked at it again just
> now I realized that was not it.

One of the guys on another newsgroup is a self proclaimed road geek and
he's got pictures of lots of interesting stuff on his site. Here's a
link with information about the bridge that went down.
http://www.visi.com/~jweeks/bridges/pages/ms16.html
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

"Pete C." > wrote in
:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>
>> In article > ,
>> "The Joneses" > wrote:
>>
>> > "Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > In article >,
>> > > "jmcquown" > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> I just heard about the I-35 West bridge between Minneapolis and
>> > >> St. Paul collapsing, sending cars plunging into the Mississippi
>> > >> River. Please check
>> > >> in and let us know you're okay!
>> > >>
>> > >> Jill
>> > >
>> > > We are fine, The bridge is about 17 miles north of us. It is one
>> > > Rob crosses to go to the University and that I cross to visit my
>> > > family on that end of town. It's a f*cking catastrophe.
>> > > Emergency crews are performing like champs. Thanks for asking.
>> > > --
>> > > -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
>> >
>> > Getting out the candles....beads ain't part of it here.
>> > Love,
>> > Edrena
>>
>> Light a bonfire, Girlfriend. This is going to make for one helluva
>> mess for a long time. That's a major thoroughfare from the downtown
>> area to a lot of places north and to the U. Just learned that my
>> grandnephew (a champion swimmer) is on the dive team ‹ he got
>> certified yesterday. :-)
>
> 'Scuse me??? Got certified yesterday??? Who the f' lets a newly
> certified diver, champion swimmer or not, on a recovery team at an
> extremely hazardous site???
>


Maybe the police dive squad?


If he's in that..... just keep your foot in your mouth for a few days to
remind yourself that not all divers are like you (supposedly are).



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

"People sleep safely in their beds because rough men stand ready in
the night to do violence to those who would do them harm"
-- George Orwell

"Pete C." > wrote in
:


>
> Pete C.
>
> (Open water / Nitrox and I sure as hell wouldn't be diving there)



Yeah......... you just run away "Pete C"...... and keep on running.


Let the real men do the job.



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

"People sleep safely in their beds because rough men stand ready in
the night to do violence to those who would do them harm"
-- George Orwell

"Pete C." wrote:

> > EXCUSE ME!?!? Just "a drop in the bucket"????
>
> Compare a few hundred billion to the many trillions of the national
> budget. Iraq is a drop in the bucket, don't let the "billion" fool you,
> relative to the total national budget, Iraq is the equivalent of your
> morning coffee budget.

Perhaps the morning cup of coffee for many years to come. Personally, I
would rather have that morning coffee money going to build and repair local
infrastructure that to have it being wasted on men and military equipment
to be blown up in a war that was based on lies. And of course you would
know that know viable WMDs were found.

Think about it for a second. Bush and his boys had so much proof of a vast
arsenal of WMDs that they went to war to disarm Saddam, but they were
unable to find them. One would expect that if they had had enough proof to
justify an invasion that they would have had no problem finding them.


Don't you think that if Saddam had had WMDs that he would have used them on
the invading forces? What on earth do you think he was saving them for?



> No, I'm one of the folks who knows the real story with the WMDs from
> someone who was in Iraq on the UNSCOM team and saw them first hand.

In that case, you were probably aware that, while Iraq had had a
significant WMD program but that it had been dismantled. You would know
too that, contrary to Bush's demands that Saddam allow the inspectors back
in, they had been withdrawn by the uS for their own safety because they
were going to launch air strikes.


> >
> > > A good chunk of our tax dollars are being wasted on
> > > well intentioned but counterproductive "humanitarian aid".
> >
> > Funny Uncle Sam gives candy to little countries because he wants
> > what's in their little panties.*
>
> That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to the feel good
> humanitarian aid given to countries that have nothing we want, and only
> server to exacerbate the problems in those countries.

Should you only offer aid to countries that have something you want?
Silly me. Of course. That is the way the US often operates. It tried to
undermine Castro's regime in Cuba because it was communist and therefore
corrupt and incompetent, but it had no problem with Batista's corrupt,
incompetent and repressive regime because it kissed American butt. When
Castro retaliated for those attempts to overthrow is government and
numerous attempts on his life he responded by nationalizing American
businesses, so the US turned around and placed an embargo on it. Castro's
regime is no more repressive than China's, but China is a major trading
partner. US consumers have no problem shopping at Walmart for cheap Chinese
goods, but Americans are not allowed to buy Cuban products.

> > OK, here's a challenge. Tell us EXACTLY WHAT that "largest portion of
> > our tax dollars" "are being wasted" on "right here in the US."
>
> Little things like the "war on drugs" which also includes a lot of
> foreign spending and by all objective assessments accomplishes next to
> nothing. Various superstition... er... "faith" based programs. Pet pork
> projects. Etc.

It's a pity that it was not spent on public education. If it had been, more
Americans would have known where Iraq was before it was on the nightly
news.

"PeterLucas" > wrote in message
.25...
> "MareCat" > wrote in
> :
>
>> "Pete C." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> The billions sent to Iraq are a drop in the bucket and while not being
>>> particularly well spent are at least being thrown in the direction of a
>>> very real threat.
>>
>> What threat???
>>
>
> Go hug a ****ing tree, then go stick your head back in the sand like a
> good
> little ostrich.

Predictable response...and of course you didn't answer my question.

I ain't the one with the head in the sand, bud...

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> > Oops.. I stand corrected. I was looking at a section of bridge in I 35
> > further south. I had zoomed in on a bridge over a narrow band of water that
> > I had assumed was the Mississippi River, but when I looked at it again just
> > now I realized that was not it.
>
> One of the guys on another newsgroup is a self proclaimed road geek and
> he's got pictures of lots of interesting stuff on his site. Here's a
> link with information about the bridge that went down.
> http://www.visi.com/~jweeks/bridges/pages/ms16.html

Interesting link. I am by no means a road geek, but I worked for our
provinces highway maintenance branch for a number of years, starting off in
a highway maintenance yard. In later jobs I spent a lot of time working
with the bridge crews, bridge inspection crews and construction crews. I
took a look at the pictures on that site and the first thing I wondered was
about the weight that was concentrated on just four small concrete
pedestals, and about the low angle on the supporting arch. So it was
interesting to read the author's comments about the non redundant structure
and the inherit danger of failure of a single component leading to a total
failure as there is no redundancy in the support structure.


Having spent a lot of time with the bridge inspectors I came to understand
something about the causes of bridge failure, and the bureaucratic
processes that delay repairs and replacement. People don't realize how
badly in need of repair some bridges are. We have been lucky. People in
Quebec were not so lucky last year when a huge bridge deck collapsed on a
highway in suburban Montreal. There were 5 deaths and a number of injuries
in that one.

"MareCat" > wrote in
:

> "PeterLucas" > wrote in message
> .25...
>> "MareCat" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> "Pete C." > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> The billions sent to Iraq are a drop in the bucket and while not
>>>> being particularly well spent are at least being thrown in the
>>>> direction of a very real threat.
>>>
>>> What threat???
>>>
>>
>> Go hug a ****ing tree, then go stick your head back in the sand like
>> a good
>> little ostrich.
>
> Predictable response...and of course you didn't answer my question.


No.......... *you* give us all a plausable explanation as to why there
is no threat. And never will be any threat.


I'm sure the 9-11 victims families would *love* to hear it.



>
> I ain't the one with the head in the sand, bud...
>


Yep, you're right there. Yours is firmly stuck up your arse.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

"People sleep safely in their beds because rough men stand ready in
the night to do violence to those who would do them harm"
-- George Orwell

PeterLucas wrote:
>
> >>>> The billions sent to Iraq are a drop in the bucket and while not
> >>>> being particularly well spent are at least being thrown in the
> >>>> direction of a very real threat.
> >>>
> >>> What threat???
> >>>
> >>
> >> Go hug a ****ing tree, then go stick your head back in the sand like
> >> a good
> >> little ostrich.
> >
> > Predictable response...and of course you didn't answer my question.
>
> No.......... *you* give us all a plausable explanation as to why there
> is no threat. And never will be any threat.
>
> I'm sure the 9-11 victims families would *love* to hear it.
>
> >
> > I ain't the one with the head in the sand, bud...
> >
>
> Yep, you're right there. Yours is firmly stuck up your arse.


How many Afghans were on the hijacked planes on 9/11? How many Iraqis were
there?

I should not have to tell you there were none. Fifteen of them were
Saudis. So if you have to attack someone for revenge or to eliminate
further threat, why did Bush not invade Saudi Arabia? Osmama bin Laden in
Saudi.

"PeterLucas" > wrote in message
0.25...
> "MareCat" > wrote in
> :
>
>> "PeterLucas" > wrote in message
>> .25...
>>> "MareCat" > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> "Pete C." > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> The billions sent to Iraq are a drop in the bucket and while not
>>>>> being particularly well spent are at least being thrown in the
>>>>> direction of a very real threat.
>>>>
>>>> What threat???
>>>>
>>>
>>> Go hug a ****ing tree, then go stick your head back in the sand like
>>> a good
>>> little ostrich.
>>
>> Predictable response...and of course you didn't answer my question.
>
>
> No.......... *you* give us all a plausable explanation as to why there
> is no threat. And never will be any threat.
>
>
> I'm sure the 9-11 victims families would *love* to hear it.

Uh...9-11 had nothing to do with Iraq.


>>
>> I ain't the one with the head in the sand, bud...
>>
>
>
> Yep, you're right there. Yours is firmly stuck up your arse.

LOL. Yeah, you've certainly proved that--NOT.