Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning tomato
sauce?

Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in gallon
bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all the
ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.

I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then can.

One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and garlic,
before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?

I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
literature it came with).

On Aug 10, 2:34 pm, "Kswck" > wrote:
> Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning tomato
> sauce?
>
> Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in gallon
> bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all the
> ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.
>
> I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then can.
>
> One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and garlic,
> before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?
>
> I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
> industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
> literature it came with).


There's a group, rec.food.preserving - many experts there. There are
also the county extension offices (if you're in the U.S.) and probably
websites as well. They are very knowledgeable, although they err on
the side of what Karen Kitchen (inexperienced cook) should do if they
want to preserve food (in other words, very, very safe and simple
instructions).

If you add garlic and/or onion or other veggies to your tomato sauce,
in general, it is no longer a product that can be canned in a hot
water bath, and you would need to can it in a pressure canner.

(In my day, we just made sure we brought whole, peeled tomatoes to a
rolling boil, ladeled them into sterilized hot jars, put the lids on,
and waited for them to "pop," meaning they were sealed and safe.
Because modern varieties of tomatoes are no longer as acidic as they
once were, hot-water bath canning is recommended even for these acidic
veggies.)

Read up - learn what you need to know - be safe.

N.

"Kswck" > wrote in message
...
> Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning tomato
> sauce?
>
> Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in gallon
> bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all the
> ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.
>
> I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then can.
>
> One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and garlic,
> before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?
>
> I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
> industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
> literature it came with).
>
>

Try http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/

or rec.food.preserving

Keith

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:34:28 -0400, "Kswck" >
wrote:

>Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning tomato
>sauce?
>
>Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in gallon
>bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all the
>ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.
>
>I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then can.
>
>One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and garlic,
>before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?
>
>I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
>industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
>literature it came with).
>

The Ball Blue Book of Preserving (a large-format paperback that's
usually available where you buy canning supplies) has a recipe for
tomato sauce like you're talking about - onions, garlic, oregano, etc.

Processing instructoins call for 40 minutes in a boiling water bath
for quart jars. The key to preventing botulism poisoning when using
a boiling water bath is the acidity (pH) of the stuff being canned. A
pH of 4.6 or lower (more acid) prevents the C. botulinum spores from
producing toxin.

The Blue Book recipe includes adding 2 tablespoons of bottled lemon
juice to each quart jar to be certain that there is enough acid.

- Mark

In article . com>,
Nancy2 > wrote:

> If you add garlic and/or onion or other veggies to your tomato sauce,
> in general, it is no longer a product that can be canned in a hot
> water bath, and you would need to can it in a pressure canner.

> N.

Hey, the folks at my U of MN Extension service worked up a recipe for
"stewed tomatoes" -- tomatoes with celery, onions, and green pepper --
that can safely be waterbath processed. It's called the Minnesota
Tomato Mixture. I made it last year with blue success and followed the
directions and measurements to the letter - except I added citric acid
per the NCHFP recommendations for canning tomatoes. I find it ironic
that the U's instructions haven't been updated to include this
requirement.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distrib...on/DJ1097.html

There's lot of information on the page.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

In article >,
"Kswck" > wrote:

> Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning tomato
> sauce?
>
> Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in gallon
> bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all the
> ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.
>
> I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then can.
>
> One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and garlic,
> before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?
>
> I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
> industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
> literature it came with).

When I've canned tomatoes for sauce, I've just pureed them and added
nothing but a basil leaf to each jar. It's more flexible that way since
you can use it for different kinds of sauce or whatever.

D.M.

On Aug 10, 3:34?pm, "Kswck" > wrote:
> Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning tomato
> sauce?
>
> Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in gallon
> bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all the
> ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.
>
> I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then can.
>
> One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and garlic,
> before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?
>
> I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
> industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
> literature it came with).

You're much better off freezing tomato sauce, especially with large
quantities. Canning was popular before the advent of freezers, with
modern freezers canning can't hold a candle... freezing requires far
less work, far less space, and is far, FAR safer.

Sheldon

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Aug 10, 3:34?pm, "Kswck" > wrote:
>> Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning tomato
>> sauce?
>>
>> Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in gallon
>> bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all the
>> ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.
>>
>> I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then can.
>>
>> One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and garlic,
>> before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?
>>
>> I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
>> industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
>> literature it came with).
>
> You're much better off freezing tomato sauce, especially with large
> quantities. Canning was popular before the advent of freezers, with
> modern freezers canning can't hold a candle... freezing requires far
> less work, far less space, and is far, FAR safer.
> Sheldon
>
Until the lights go out. Or you want to mail some prize winning good stuff
to your kinfolk. Canning is safe if you follow the rules. I can alot and
freeze other things. Join us at rec.food.preserving, log on to your county
extension site, visit the library. Very civilized places imho.
Edrena

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> Hey, the folks at my U of MN Extension service worked up a recipe for
> "stewed tomatoes" -- tomatoes with celery, onions, and green pepper --
> that can safely be waterbath processed. It's called the Minnesota
> Tomato Mixture. I made it last year with blue success and followed the
> directions and measurements to the letter - except I added citric acid
> per the NCHFP recommendations for canning tomatoes. I find it ironic
> that the U's instructions haven't been updated to include this
> requirement.
> http://www.extension.umn.edu/distrib...on/DJ1097.html
>
> There's lot of information on the page.

I've always been a little proud at how you praise the University of
Georgia in Athens Ag site. I wonder if they suggest the citric acid?

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 04:41:07 -0400, Goomba38 >
wrote:

>Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
>> Hey, the folks at my U of MN Extension service worked up a recipe for
>> "stewed tomatoes" -- tomatoes with celery, onions, and green pepper --
>> that can safely be waterbath processed. It's called the Minnesota
>> Tomato Mixture. I made it last year with blue success and followed the
>> directions and measurements to the letter - except I added citric acid
>> per the NCHFP recommendations for canning tomatoes. I find it ironic
>> that the U's instructions haven't been updated to include this
>> requirement.
>> http://www.extension.umn.edu/distrib...on/DJ1097.html
>>
>> There's lot of information on the page.
>
>I've always been a little proud at how you praise the University of
>Georgia in Athens Ag site. I wonder if they suggest the citric acid?


Excerpted from NCHFP site at
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_intro.html

<Quote>
Acidification: To ensure safe acidity in whole, crushed, or juiced
tomatoes, add two tablespoons of bottled lemon juice or 1/2 teaspoon
of citric acid per quart of tomatoes. For pints, use one tablespoon
bottled lemon juice or 1/4 teaspoon citric acid.
<Unquote>

Ross.

The Joneses wrote:
> "Sheldon" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> On Aug 10, 3:34?pm, "Kswck" > wrote:
>>> Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning tomato
>>> sauce?
>>>
>>> Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in gallon
>>> bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all the
>>> ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.
>>>
>>> I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then can.
>>>
>>> One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and garlic,
>>> before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?
>>>
>>> I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
>>> industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
>>> literature it came with).
>> You're much better off freezing tomato sauce, especially with large
>> quantities. Canning was popular before the advent of freezers, with
>> modern freezers canning can't hold a candle... freezing requires far
>> less work, far less space, and is far, FAR safer.
>> Sheldon
>>
> Until the lights go out. Or you want to mail some prize winning good stuff
> to your kinfolk. Canning is safe if you follow the rules. I can alot and
> freeze other things. Join us at rec.food.preserving, log on to your county
> extension site, visit the library. Very civilized places imho.

I both can and freeze. The reasons you give for not freezing don't hold
up. Frozen food will stay frozen for days as long as the freezer door
remains closed. And I wouldn't mail a jar of beans or jam or picalilly*
to friends and folks with any delusion of it getting there intact. No
sir, they can stop by if they want some, or wait 'til the get-together.

I've preserved for years, and I read and rarely post to rfp. Both
methods have their good points, but in terms of taste, color and
consistency of food and the need for canned foods to be cooked by
default, freezing has far more applications.

<* piccalilli, if you must>

"The Joneses" wrote:
> "Sheldon" wrote
>
> > You're much better off freezing tomato sauce, especially with large
> > quantities. Canning was popular before the advent of freezers, with
> > modern freezers canning can't hold a candle... freezing requires far
> > less work, far less space, and is far, FAR safer.
> > Sheldon
>
> Until the lights go out.

Only once in my life did my power go out for more than 24 hours
(Hurricane Gloria). Frozen food keeps solid for a day and longer if
the door stays closed, and I can always buy dry ice. People in rural
areas have generators, I have a small Honda generator that will run my
fridge, TV, PC, and a few lights... have it 4 years and haven't used
it yet... my power goes out like 1-2 times a year, typically about 5
minutes, once it was out for 2 hours. Adn if if my fridge dies, I
have two.. odds are slim both will die together. Hmm, actually I have
a third fridge in my empty rental house but it's not plugged in.

Or you want to mail some prize winning good stuff.
> to your kinfolk.

I would never mail canned food and won't eat anyone's canned food
unless it's jam.

> Canning is safe if you follow the rules.

Not always safe... and canned food has a relatively short shelf
life... freezing is forever.

>I can alot

That's my fear, "alot".

Sheldon

"Pennyaline" > wrote in message
...
> The Joneses wrote:
>> "Sheldon" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> On Aug 10, 3:34?pm, "Kswck" > wrote:
>>>> Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning
>>>> tomato
>>>> sauce?
>>>>
>>>> Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in
>>>> gallon
>>>> bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all the
>>>> ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.
>>>>
>>>> I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then can.
>>>>
>>>> One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and garlic,
>>>> before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?
>>>>
>>>> I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
>>>> industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
>>>> literature it came with).
>>> You're much better off freezing tomato sauce, especially with large
>>> quantities. Canning was popular before the advent of freezers, with
>>> modern freezers canning can't hold a candle... freezing requires far
>>> less work, far less space, and is far, FAR safer.
>>> Sheldon
>>>
>> Until the lights go out. Or you want to mail some prize winning good
>> stuff to your kinfolk. Canning is safe if you follow the rules. I can
>> alot and freeze other things. Join us at rec.food.preserving, log on to
>> your county extension site, visit the library. Very civilized places
>> imho.
>
> I both can and freeze. The reasons you give for not freezing don't hold
> up. Frozen food will stay frozen for days as long as the freezer door
> remains closed. And I wouldn't mail a jar of beans or jam or picalilly* to
> friends and folks with any delusion of it getting there intact. No sir,
> they can stop by if they want some, or wait 'til the get-together.
>
> I've preserved for years, and I read and rarely post to rfp. Both methods
> have their good points, but in terms of taste, color and consistency of
> food and the need for canned foods to be cooked by default, freezing has
> far more applications.
> <* piccalilli, if you must>

It may be freezing has more applications, and I never said *not* to
freeze. I know that there are differences among foods that make either
preserving method more appropriate. I feel it's just wrong say that there is
only one way to do everything.
And I ship canned (jarred?) food all the time, even internationally.
Wrapped securely and packed so it doesn't shift, and my canned stuff gets
mailed all over safely.
Edrena

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> "The Joneses" wrote:
>> "Sheldon" wrote
>>
>> > You're much better off freezing tomato sauce, especially with large
>> > quantities. Canning was popular before the advent of freezers, with
>> > modern freezers canning can't hold a candle... freezing requires far
>> > less work, far less space, and is far, FAR safer.
>> > Sheldon
>>
>> Until the lights go out.
>
> Only once in my life did my power go out for more than 24 hours
> (Hurricane Gloria). Frozen food keeps solid for a day and longer if
> the door stays closed, and I can always buy dry ice. People in rural
> areas have generators, I have a small Honda generator that will run my
> fridge, TV, PC, and a few lights... have it 4 years and haven't used
> it yet... my power goes out like 1-2 times a year, typically about 5
> minutes, once it was out for 2 hours. Adn if if my fridge dies, I
> have two.. odds are slim both will die together. Hmm, actually I have
> a third fridge in my empty rental house but it's not plugged in.
>
> Or you want to mail some prize winning good stuff.
>> to your kinfolk.
>
> I would never mail canned food and won't eat anyone's canned food
> unless it's jam.
>
>> Canning is safe if you follow the rules.
>
> Not always safe... and canned food has a relatively short shelf
> life... freezing is forever.
>
>>I can alot
>
> That's my fear, "alot".
>
> Sheldon

Bloody hell. I'm so sorry you've missed out on some truly wonderful things.
Canned food keeps very well for well over a year and it's obvious you don't
know what you're talking about. And it must be nice to judge an entire
person's skill on one typo. Back to the kill file you go.
Edrena

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> "The Joneses" wrote:
>
> Or you want to mail some prize winning good stuff.
>> to your kinfolk.
>
> I would never mail canned food and won't eat anyone's canned food
> unless it's jam.

I mail home-canned food frequently, and have never had a problem with
breakage. And you may be missing out on a lot of good stuff -- my
bread-and-butter pickles, spicy salsa and peach-apple salsa all won blue
ribbons at my local county fair this year, and that peach-apple salsa also
won blue ribbon, best salsa/sauce rosette, and best of division trophy at my
state fair.

>
>> Canning is safe if you follow the rules.
>
> Not always safe... and canned food has a relatively short shelf
> life... freezing is forever.

Freezing is forever only if you don't mind eating poor quality food. See
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets...g/index.asp#12 for
guidelines on how long to keep foods frozen and retain good quality.

And there are some foods which can be successfully canned by the home cook,
but not frozen.

Not to mention of course that for many of us finding available pantry space
is easier than finding available freezer space.

Anny

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 02:58:29 GMT, "The Joneses" >
wrote:

>"Sheldon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> On Aug 10, 3:34?pm, "Kswck" > wrote:
>>> Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning tomato
>>> sauce?
>>>
>>> Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in gallon
>>> bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all the
>>> ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.
>>>
>>> I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then can.
>>>
>>> One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and garlic,
>>> before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?
>>>
>>> I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
>>> industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
>>> literature it came with).
>>
>> You're much better off freezing tomato sauce, especially with large
>> quantities. Canning was popular before the advent of freezers, with
>> modern freezers canning can't hold a candle... freezing requires far
>> less work, far less space, and is far, FAR safer.
>> Sheldon
>>
>Until the lights go out. Or you want to mail some prize winning good stuff
>to your kinfolk. Canning is safe if you follow the rules. I can alot and
>freeze other things. Join us at rec.food.preserving, log on to your county
>extension site, visit the library. Very civilized places imho.
>Edrena
>

also, most folks don't have a freezer that can accommodate sauce from
five bushels of tomatoes.

your pal,
blake

"The Joneses" wrote:
> "Sheldon" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "The Joneses" wrote:
> >> "Sheldon" wrote
>
> >> > You're much better off freezing tomato sauce, especially with large
> >> > quantities. Canning was popular before the advent of freezers, with
> >> > modern freezers canning can't hold a candle... freezing requires far
> >> > less work, far less space, and is far, FAR safer.
> >> > Sheldon
>
> >> Until the lights go out.
>
> > Only once in my life did my power go out for more than 24 hours
> > (Hurricane Gloria). Frozen food keeps solid for a day and longer if
> > the door stays closed, and I can always buy dry ice. People in rural
> > areas have generators, I have a small Honda generator that will run my
> > fridge, TV, PC, and a few lights... have it 4 years and haven't used
> > it yet... my power goes out like 1-2 times a year, typically about 5
> > minutes, once it was out for 2 hours. Adn if if my fridge dies, I
> > have two.. odds are slim both will die together. Hmm, actually I have
> > a third fridge in my empty rental house but it's not plugged in.
>
> > Or you want to mail some prize winning good stuff.
> >> to your kinfolk.
>
> > I would never mail canned food and won't eat anyone's canned food
> > unless it's jam.
>
> >> Canning is safe if you follow the rules.
>
> > Not always safe... and canned food has a relatively short shelf
> > life... freezing is forever.
>
> >>I can alot
>
> > That's my fear, "alot".
>
> it must be nice to judge an entire
> person's skill on one typo.

That's not a typo, that's purely indicative of a no IQ imbecile...
you're a LIAR! When someone won't admit they they don't know ("alot"
is not a word) I don't believe a word they say.

And clean up your posts, you NEWBIE! look at that ****ing mess you
left... I'd not want to eat anything you touched, you FILTHY DIRTY
SLOB!

Sheldon

On Aug 11, 4:19?pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 02:58:29 GMT, "The Joneses" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Sheldon" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >> On Aug 10, 3:34?pm, "Kswck" > wrote:
> >>> Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning tomato
> >>> sauce?
>
> >>> Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in gallon
> >>> bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all the
> >>> ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.
>
> >>> I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then can.
>
> >>> One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and garlic,
> >>> before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?
>
> >>> I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
> >>> industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
> >>> literature it came with).
>
> >> You're much better off freezing tomato sauce, especially with large
> >> quantities. Canning was popular before the advent of freezers, with
> >> modern freezers canning can't hold a candle... freezing requires far
> >> less work, far less space, and is far, FAR safer.
> >> Sheldon
>
> >Until the lights go out. Or you want to mail some prize winning good stuff
> >to your kinfolk. Canning is safe if you follow the rules. I can alot and
> >freeze other things. Join us at rec.food.preserving, log on to your county
> >extension site, visit the library. Very civilized places imho.
> >Edrena
>
> also, most folks don't have a freezer that can accommodate sauce from
> five bushels of tomatoes.

Only an selfish asshole would keep more than they can use in a year...
one bushel of tomatoes makes a year's supply (about 30 quarts). I
give away extra tomatoes.

In article >,
Goomba38 > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > Hey, the folks at my U of MN Extension service worked up a recipe for
> > "stewed tomatoes" -- tomatoes with celery, onions, and green pepper --
> > that can safely be waterbath processed. It's called the Minnesota
> > Tomato Mixture. I made it last year with blue success and followed the
> > directions and measurements to the letter - except I added citric acid
> > per the NCHFP recommendations for canning tomatoes. I find it ironic
> > that the U's instructions haven't been updated to include this
> > requirement.
> > http://www.extension.umn.edu/distrib...on/DJ1097.html
> >
> > There's lot of information on the page.
>
> I've always been a little proud at how you praise the University of
> Georgia in Athens Ag site. I wonder if they suggest the citric acid?

Options are given for lemon juice, citric acid, and vinegar. Vinegar
acidification requires the most and because of that, flavor is affected
(adversely, you ask me). My preference is citric acid because it
produces the pucker but no flavor. It also uses only 1/2 tsp per quart
of tomato "stuff."

Elizabeth Andress, who seems to run the NCHFP is a real gem. When they
were setting up the site a few years ago, they asked the folks on
r.f.preserving to voice opinions about various things. They had a
lurker amongst us at the time. I don't believe Elizabeth reads (or
lurks) but she's always been extremely willing to answer questions I
(and I'm quite sure others) ask -- in good detail with thorough
explanations. I sent her and her staff some jam a year or two ago for
Christmas. :-)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

In article >,
Pennyaline > wrote:

> remains closed. And I wouldn't mail a jar of beans or jam or picalilly*
> to friends and folks with any delusion of it getting there intact. No
> sir, they can stop by if they want some, or wait 'til the get-together.

Why not? If properly packed there's no reason they shouldn't arrive
intact. I've mailed across country and abroad both with great
satisfaction of the recipients.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

"Anny Middon" wrote:
>
> I mail home-canned food frequently, and have never had a problem with
> breakage.

I'm not the least concerned with breakage, my concern is "tsaint", I
don't eat others canned foods and for th eexact same reason I strongly
suspect they'd not eat mine... the ONLY reason can ners gift their
wares is to show off, at leas they think they're bragging, I think
they're just jerks.

> Freezing is forever only if you don't mind eating poor quality.

With home grown veggies forever means one year... makes not a whit of
sense to preserve more than will be consumed until the next crop.

> And there are some foods which can be successfully canned by the home cook,
> but not frozen.
>
> Not to mention of course that for many of us finding available pantry space
> is easier than finding available freezer space.

Maybe you're one of those who loads up their freezer with items that
cost less than the electric bill to keep them frozen for a year...
really dumb to freeze a load of bread.

Canning is a hobby... it costs much more to can than the value of
what's canned... same as riding a horse costs more than using modern
transportation

I make up and freeze 20-30 quarts of tomato sauce each year, because I
enjoy doing it, not because there is any economic advantage, there
isn't. It's far less expensive and far, FAR less laborious to buy
tinned tomatoes at the stupidmarket for making up sauce as I go. In
fact everything I grow is more costly and much more work than buying
at the store, but I make no stupid rationalizing excuses, I do it
because I enjoy it, that's it. I freeze very little of the produce I
grow, just the tomato sauce... and the okra for winter stews/soups...
just not worth it... I grow only as much as I estimate I will consume
during the growing season, extras get swapped with neighbors or just
get given away. Commercially frozen veggies from the stupidmarket are
actually better than any I can preserve by any method at home. In
fact frozen produce is much better quality nutritionally than so-
called fresh at the market.

Sheldon

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> Pennyaline > wrote:
>
>> remains closed. And I wouldn't mail a jar of beans or jam or picalilly*
>> to friends and folks with any delusion of it getting there intact. No
>> sir, they can stop by if they want some, or wait 'til the get-together.
>
> Why not? If properly packed there's no reason they shouldn't arrive
> intact. I've mailed across country and abroad both with great
> satisfaction of the recipients.

Why not? Primarily because I have no need to mail preserves 'cross land
and sea. But my experience with USPS and the major package carriers when
it comes to breakable items is they shouldn't be trusted with anything
more brittle than a damp sponge.

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> "Anny Middon" wrote:
>>
>> I mail home-canned food frequently, and have never had a problem with
>> breakage.
>
> I'm not the least concerned with breakage, my concern is "tsaint", I
> don't eat others canned foods and for th eexact same reason I strongly
> suspect they'd not eat mine... the ONLY reason can ners gift their
> wares is to show off, at leas they think they're bragging, I think
> they're just jerks.

Well, certainly no one in their right mind would eat anything you'd
canned -- you've shown your ignorance about safe canning techniques.

I give away a lot of my canned goods, almost all to people who practically
beg for it. One friend has gone from hinting about how she's eaten the last
of my blueberry marmalade to asking straight out whether I've made any this
season and when can she have a few jars. For chrissake I get congratulatory
cards from my mother's neighbors that make a point of telling me they've
given Mom the empty jars in the hopes I'll give them back filled. (BTW, Mom
lives about 1700 miles from me.)

>
>> Freezing is forever only if you don't mind eating poor quality.
>
> With home grown veggies forever means one year... makes not a whit of
> sense to preserve more than will be consumed until the next crop.
>

So let's see if I've got this right -- freezing is superior to canning
because freezing lasts forever and canning lasts only a year for best
quality, but "forever" for freezing means only one year?

Anny

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> Pennyaline > wrote:
>
> > remains closed. And I wouldn't mail a jar of beans or jam or picalilly*
> > to friends and folks with any delusion of it getting there intact. No
> > sir, they can stop by if they want some, or wait 'til the get-together.
>
> Why not? If properly packed there's no reason they shouldn't arrive
> intact. I've mailed across country and abroad both with great
> satisfaction of the recipients.
>

Bubble wrapped helps. Anything that will absorb shock is the best for
packing glass.

"Pennyaline" > wrote in message
...
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Pennyaline > wrote:
>>
>>> remains closed. And I wouldn't mail a jar of beans or jam or picalilly*
>>> to friends and folks with any delusion of it getting there intact. No
>>> sir, they can stop by if they want some, or wait 'til the get-together.
>>
>> Why not? If properly packed there's no reason they shouldn't arrive
>> intact. I've mailed across country and abroad both with great
>> satisfaction of the recipients.
>
> Why not? Primarily because I have no need to mail preserves 'cross land
> and sea. But my experience with USPS and the major package carriers when
> it comes to breakable items is they shouldn't be trusted with anything
> more brittle than a damp sponge.

Barb sent jars to me and they arrived with no problems at all .. and
fabulous they were too))

O in Scotland

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Pennyaline" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Pennyaline > wrote:
>>>
>>>> remains closed. And I wouldn't mail a jar of beans or jam or picalilly*
>>>> to friends and folks with any delusion of it getting there intact. No
>>>> sir, they can stop by if they want some, or wait 'til the get-together.
>>>
>>> Why not? If properly packed there's no reason they shouldn't arrive
>>> intact. I've mailed across country and abroad both with great
>>> satisfaction of the recipients.
>>
>> Why not? Primarily because I have no need to mail preserves 'cross land
>> and sea. But my experience with USPS and the major package carriers when
>> it comes to breakable items is they shouldn't be trusted with anything
>> more brittle than a damp sponge.
>
> Barb sent jars to me and they arrived with no problems at all .. and
> fabulous they were too))

Just trying to think Barb... how many years ago was that?

Guess I am not a newby after all)))))))))

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:28:25 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Goomba38 > wrote:
>
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>
>> > Hey, the folks at my U of MN Extension service worked up a recipe for
>> > "stewed tomatoes" -- tomatoes with celery, onions, and green pepper --
>> > that can safely be waterbath processed. It's called the Minnesota
>> > Tomato Mixture. I made it last year with blue success and followed the
>> > directions and measurements to the letter - except I added citric acid
>> > per the NCHFP recommendations for canning tomatoes. I find it ironic
>> > that the U's instructions haven't been updated to include this
>> > requirement.
>> > http://www.extension.umn.edu/distrib...on/DJ1097.html
>> >
>> > There's lot of information on the page.
>>
>> I've always been a little proud at how you praise the University of
>> Georgia in Athens Ag site. I wonder if they suggest the citric acid?
>
>Options are given for lemon juice, citric acid, and vinegar. Vinegar
>acidification requires the most and because of that, flavor is affected
>(adversely, you ask me). My preference is citric acid because it
>produces the pucker but no flavor. It also uses only 1/2 tsp per quart
>of tomato "stuff."
>
>Elizabeth Andress, who seems to run the NCHFP is a real gem. When they
>were setting up the site a few years ago, they asked the folks on
>r.f.preserving to voice opinions about various things. They had a
>lurker amongst us at the time. I don't believe Elizabeth reads (or
>lurks) but she's always been extremely willing to answer questions I
>(and I'm quite sure others) ask -- in good detail with thorough
>explanations. I sent her and her staff some jam a year or two ago for
>Christmas. :-)
I have had a couple of question answered by either Dr. Andress or
other staff. Very nice and helpful people. It is probably one of the
very few places where you can get reliable information about something
that is not directly covered on their web site or books.

--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

In article >,
Pennyaline > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Pennyaline > wrote:
> >
> >> remains closed. And I wouldn't mail a jar of beans or jam or picalilly*
> >> to friends and folks with any delusion of it getting there intact. No
> >> sir, they can stop by if they want some, or wait 'til the get-together.
> >
> > Why not? If properly packed there's no reason they shouldn't arrive
> > intact. I've mailed across country and abroad both with great
> > satisfaction of the recipients.
>
> Why not? Primarily because I have no need to mail preserves 'cross land
> and sea.

Well, there you go, then! :-)

> But my experience with USPS and the major package carriers when
> it comes to breakable items is they shouldn't be trusted with anything
> more brittle than a damp sponge.

Well, phooey on them!


--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Aug 11, 4:19?pm, blake murphy > wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 02:58:29 GMT, "The Joneses" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >"Sheldon" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >> On Aug 10, 3:34?pm, "Kswck" > wrote:
>> >>> Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning
>> >>> tomato
>> >>> sauce?
>>
>> >>> Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in
>> >>> gallon
>> >>> bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all
>> >>> the
>> >>> ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.
>>
>> >>> I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then
>> >>> can.
>>
>> >>> One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and
>> >>> garlic,
>> >>> before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?
>>
>> >>> I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
>> >>> industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
>> >>> literature it came with).
>>
>> >> You're much better off freezing tomato sauce, especially with large
>> >> quantities. Canning was popular before the advent of freezers, with
>> >> modern freezers canning can't hold a candle... freezing requires far
>> >> less work, far less space, and is far, FAR safer.
>> >> Sheldon
>>
>> >Until the lights go out. Or you want to mail some prize winning good
>> >stuff
>> >to your kinfolk. Canning is safe if you follow the rules. I can alot and
>> >freeze other things. Join us at rec.food.preserving, log on to your
>> >county
>> >extension site, visit the library. Very civilized places imho.
>> >Edrena
>>
>> also, most folks don't have a freezer that can accommodate sauce from
>> five bushels of tomatoes.
>
> Only an selfish asshole would keep more than they can use in a year...
> one bushel of tomatoes makes a year's supply (about 30 quarts). I
> give away extra tomatoes.
>
>

I give most of what I make away as well. Most years I am eating the last of
waht I made about when it's time to make more.

In article >,
"Ophelia" > wrote:

> > Barb sent jars to me and they arrived with no problems at all .. and
> > fabulous they were too))
>
> Just trying to think Barb... how many years ago was that?
>
> Guess I am not a newby after all)))))))))

Five-seven? I still have the waxed paper things that you folks use for
your preserves. :-)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

In article >,
The Cook > wrote:
> I have had a couple of question answered by either Dr. Andress or
> other staff. Very nice and helpful people. It is probably one of the
> very few places where you can get reliable information about something
> that is not directly covered on their web site or books.

Hear, hear!

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

"Kswck" wrote:
> "Sheldon" wrote
> > blake murphy wrote:
> >> "The Joneses" wrote:
> >> >"Sheldon" wrote
> >> >> "Kswck" wrote:
> >> >>> Is there a definitive site you all use for information on canning
> >> >>> tomato
> >> >>> sauce?
>
> >> >>> Usually, I just grind the tomatoes and make sauce and freeze it in
> >> >>> gallon
> >> >>> bags. I want to try canning the juice/sauce rather than adding all
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> ingredients for sauce, cooking it down and freezing it.
>
> >> >>> I would think that you must cook down the juice for a bit and then
> >> >>> can.
>
> >> >>> One other question-can one spice the juice, say with onion and
> >> >>> garlic,
> >> >>> before canning or is there a real problem with botulism with garlic?
>
> >> >>> I usually do around 2 bushels-want to expand to 4 or 5. I do have an
> >> >>> industrial size electric grinder (50 bushels in 8 hours-or so say the
> >> >>> literature it came with).
>
> >> >> You're much better off freezing tomato sauce, especially with large
> >> >> quantities. Canning was popular before the advent of freezers, with
> >> >> modern freezers canning can't hold a candle... freezing requires far
> >> >> less work, far less space, and is far, FAR safer.
> >> >> Sheldon
>
> >> >Until the lights go out. Or you want to mail some prize winning good
> >> >stuff
> >> >to your kinfolk. Canning is safe if you follow the rules. I can alot and
> >> >freeze other things. Join us at rec.food.preserving, log on to your
> >> >county
> >> >extension site, visit the library. Very civilized places imho.
> >> >Edrena
>
> >> also, most folks don't have a freezer that can accommodate sauce from
> >> five bushels of tomatoes.
>
> > Only an selfish asshole would keep more than they can use in a year...
> > one bushel of tomatoes makes a year's supply (about 30 quarts). I
> > give away extra tomatoes.
>
> I give most of what I make away as well. Most years I am eating the last of
> what I made about when it's time to make more.

Exactly. People who actually for real garden each year aren't going
to claim they put up 5 bushels of tomatoes, even a large family can't
consume that much sauce before they're picking tomatoes again... makes
me wonder if they even know how much a bushel of tomatoes is, let
alone 5 bushels... makes me really wonder if they ever grew any
tomatoes, or any other vegetables, or even ever canned anything for
that matter, except in their wild fantasies.

It was hot today (84F) but I was out working in my garden, harvested
about 3 pounds of green beans, ate all my ripe blueberies and
strawberries as I picked them (yummy warm from the sun), picked three
nice cukes, about 20 medium tomatoes, and one small zuke and three
gigantic summer squash (looks like a zuke but like 5 pounds each,
monsters). Then I emptied my composter because I've been planning to
move it and today was the day. My neighbor must have seen me working
out there so here he comes with a bag of a dozen heads of garlic, and
five pounds each of yukon golds and red bliss spuds... I told him you
ain't walking back empty handed, he got two of those huge zukes, half
my tomatoes and half my green beans. We trade crops all season, I
know it wont be long he'll be here with a sackful of his huge gorgeous
red and yellow onions. I eat all my beet tops but I share my beets,
I'll have near 100 pounds. I also keep the 80 year old neighbor lady
across the road supplied with my extra crops, she'll get a about ten
pounds of beets, she makes really good pickled beets.

And before I know it I'll be planting a crop again... no way am I
going to preserve more than I can consume before I'm picking next
years crop.

Sheldon

>
> Exactly. People who actually for real garden each year aren't going
> to claim they put up 5 bushels of tomatoes, even a large family can't
> consume that much sauce before they're picking tomatoes again... makes
> me wonder if they even know how much a bushel of tomatoes is, let
> alone 5 bushels... makes me really wonder if they ever grew any
> tomatoes, or any other vegetables, or even ever canned anything for
> that matter, except in their wild fantasies.


I've never bothered to put up tomato sauce but when I had a growing family
(4 kids; 2 adults) I regularly put up 12 bushels of tomatoes. This was in
Utah where I could get fresh tomatoes from the farms and was cost effective.

If I were to can now I'd still do at least 6 bushels just for myself and
guests. I use whole tomatoes as ingredients often. It is not cost
effective to can tomatoes in NW WA, but I miss the great taste of home
canned. I use whole tomatoes in meals several times a week and we never had
any left over by the time tomato canning season came around again.

Blessings,
Ann

Ann > wrote:
> > Exactly. People who actually for real garden each year aren't going
> > to claim they put up 5 bushels of tomatoes, even a large family can't
> > consume that much sauce before they're picking tomatoes again... makes
> > me wonder if they even know how much a bushel of tomatoes is, let
> > alone 5 bushels... makes me really wonder if they ever grew any
> > tomatoes, or any other vegetables, or even ever canned anything for
> > that matter, except in their wild fantasies.
>
> I've never bothered to put up tomato sauce but when I had a growing family
> (4 kids; 2 adults) I regularly put up 12 bushels of tomatoes.

Where, up your lying ass?

"Ann" > wrote in message
...
>
>> (clipped)
> I've never bothered to put up tomato sauce but when I had a growing family
> (4 kids; 2 adults) I regularly put up 12 bushels of tomatoes. This was in
> Utah where I could get fresh tomatoes from the farms and was cost
> effective.
>
> If I were to can now I'd still do at least 6 bushels just for myself and
> guests. I use whole tomatoes as ingredients often. It is not cost
> effective to can tomatoes in NW WA, but I miss the great taste of home
> canned. I use whole tomatoes in meals several times a week and we never
> had
> any left over by the time tomato canning season came around again.
>
> Blessings,
> Ann
>
Canned tomatoes at their peak of ripeness are better than tomatoids in
January at the market. It is nice, too, to be able to control the amount of
salt and other ingredients if one needs a special diet. And to do away with
the high fructose corn syrup altogether. That stuff is in everything.
Edrena

On Aug 12, 9:09?pm, "The Joneses" > wrote:
> "Ann" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> >> (clipped)
> > I've never bothered to put up tomato sauce but when I had a growing family
> > (4 kids; 2 adults) I regularly put up 12 bushels of tomatoes. This was in
> > Utah where I could get fresh tomatoes from the farms and was cost
> > effective.
>
> > If I were to can now I'd still do at least 6 bushels just for myself and
> > guests. I use whole tomatoes as ingredients often. It is not cost
> > effective to can tomatoes in NW WA, but I miss the great taste of home
> > canned. I use whole tomatoes in meals several times a week and we never
> > had
> > any left over by the time tomato canning season came around again.
>
> > Blessings,
> > Ann
>
> Canned tomatoes at their peak of ripeness are better than tomatoids in
> January at the market. It is nice, too, to be able to control the amount of
> salt and other ingredients if one needs a special diet. And to do away with
> the high fructose corn syrup altogether. That stuff is in everything.
> Edrena

If what one wants is plain canned tomatoes the tinned at the
stupidmarket contain nothing but tomatoes, are safer, taste better,
are better quality, are less effort, and cost less than any one can
put up at home[period] Right now is when tinned tomatoes are on sale,
is when I buy them by the case. It's just plain stupid to home can
plain tomatoes, as stupid as hand knitting plain white socks.

Sheldon

"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>
>> > Barb sent jars to me and they arrived with no problems at all .. and
>> > fabulous they were too))
>>
>> Just trying to think Barb... how many years ago was that?
>>
>> Guess I am not a newby after all)))))))))
>
> Five-seven? I still have the waxed paper things that you folks use for
> your preserves. :-)

You still have them LOL

In article .com>,
Sheldon > wrote:

> > I give most of what I make away as well. Most years I am eating the last of
> > what I made about when it's time to make more.

Good planning. My brother plans to can tomatoes every second year. The
year he cans he puts up a two-year supply.
>
> Exactly. People who actually for real garden each year aren't going
> to claim they put up 5 bushels of tomatoes, even a large family can't
> consume that much sauce before they're picking tomatoes again...

LOL. You're in deep water, Sheldon. You don't know what a large family
can consume. Then there's the part about sharing (the canned goods)
with others. You won't eat anyone's home canned goods, but others will
and do. I understand your fear -- when I was given some stuff, I grilled
the donor about how they were processed.

> It was hot today (84F) but I was out working in my garden, harvested
> about 3 pounds of green beans, ate all my ripe blueberies and
> strawberries as I picked them (yummy warm from the sun),

What kind of strawberries do you have?

> across the road supplied with my extra crops, she'll get a about ten
> pounds of beets, she makes really good pickled beets.

> Sheldon

Get her recipe!! I'm looking for a recipe.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

In article . com>,
Sheldon > wrote:

> If what one wants is plain canned tomatoes the tinned at the
> stupidmarket contain nothing but tomatoes, are safer, taste better,
> are better quality, are less effort, and cost less than any one can
> put up at home[period] Right now is when tinned tomatoes are on sale,
> is when I buy them by the case. It's just plain stupid to home can
> plain tomatoes, as stupid as hand knitting plain white socks.
>
> Sheldon

You're on a roll! Keep treading -- you're sinking. LOL! I did tomato
"stuff" yesterday and if I had an abundance, I'd send you a jar and defy
you to tell me that *any* container of commercially produced plain
canned tomatoes you could buy in any store tastes better than my
homemade.

Today I'll put up juice and hope it gets another blue ribbon at the Fair
next week. Made from the same kind of tomatoes as the canned tomatoes,
I've never tasted tomato juice this good - even with the added acid to
ensure safe canning. It doesn't need salt although a pinch may
brighten it a titch. A couple jars will go to a friend of my son's who
can't have sugar. She loved what he gave her last year and was thrilled
at my offer for more.

It IS cheaper than putting them up from scratch, and it IS less effort.
And cheaper isn't everything.
And putting them up at home is soul satisfying. Being close to the
source of your food is *very* satisfying. But you know that -- you're
just playing to the crowd. <grin>
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007

In article >,
"Anny Middon" > wrote:

> "Sheldon" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > "Anny Middon" wrote:
> >>
> >> I mail home-canned food frequently, and have never had a problem with
> >> breakage.
> >
> > I'm not the least concerned with breakage, my concern is "tsaint", I
> > don't eat others canned foods and for th eexact same reason I strongly
> > suspect they'd not eat mine... the ONLY reason can ners gift their
> > wares is to show off, at leas they think they're bragging, I think
> > they're just jerks.
>
> Well, certainly no one in their right mind would eat anything you'd
> canned -- you've shown your ignorance about safe canning techniques.
>
> I give away a lot of my canned goods, almost all to people who practically
> beg for it. One friend has gone from hinting about how she's eaten the last
> of my blueberry marmalade to asking straight out whether I've made any this
> season and when can she have a few jars. For chrissake I get congratulatory
> cards from my mother's neighbors that make a point of telling me they've
> given Mom the empty jars in the hopes I'll give them back filled. (BTW, Mom
> lives about 1700 miles from me.)

ROTFLMAO, Anny. I make labels for Sister Marge's pickles. She asked me
to "put that I want my jar back." I made a couple that included "Please
return jar or you'll never see another of my pickles." She didn't
think that was such a good idea. :-) I re-worded it something gentler.


> >> Freezing is forever only if you don't mind eating poor quality.
> >
> > With home grown veggies forever means one year... makes not a whit of
> > sense to preserve more than will be consumed until the next crop.
> >
>
> So let's see if I've got this right -- freezing is superior to canning
> because freezing lasts forever and canning lasts only a year for best
> quality, but "forever" for freezing means only one year?
>
> Anny

Game, set, match. <grin>
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com - story and
pics of Ronald McDonald House dinner posted 6-24-2007