"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jerry Avins" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Sheldon wrote:
>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>> Sheldon wrote:
>>>>>> Why didn't you plant tomatoes, you have better tomato growing climate
>>>>> than me.
>>>> Cost of water. Last couple of summers I gardened, the cost of water >
>>>> was about $150.00 per month to support just a small garden, plus the
>>>> asparagus patch.
>>>
>>> People who choose to live in areas where drought is typical need to
>>> have their own private well... even if only a shallow well for
>>> watering crops, washing the car, and such high volume use where water
>>> quality for mineral taste doesn't matter.
>>
>> What is "shallow? My well in the Catskills, right next to a spring-fed
>> lake, went down 280 feet before hitting water.
>>
>> Jerry
>
> Ours here -- 500'
> Any deeper and we'll be in hell.
> Dee Dee
I live in a desert city and we can't have private wells. I use drip
irrigation on my garden plots, and moveable window boxes in carts. And pots
of plants ever durn where. DH wants the patio back for sitting on. Imagine.
Edrena

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 05:33:46 GMT, "The Joneses" >
wrote:


>I live in a desert city and we can't have private wells. I use drip
>irrigation on my garden plots, and moveable window boxes in carts. And pots
>of plants ever durn where. DH wants the patio back for sitting on. Imagine.
>Edrena
>
Oh good. You can show me how to turn my patio into a garden..

Christine, cleaning tonight in prep for the cook-in.

Jerry Avins wrote:

> Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>
>
>> Psst, Jerry...Krispy Kreme!
>
>
> Yes. Imagine the brouhaha if they had written "crisp cream"!
>
> ...
>
> My temper seems to be rather crispoid at the moment.
>
> Jerry

Imagine a franchise in the deep south Krispy Kreme Karnival?
---
JL

In article .com>,
Sheldon > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > Sheldon wrote:
> > > > Why didn't you plant tomatoes, you have better tomato growing climate
> > > than me.
> >
> > Cost of water. Last couple of summers I gardened, the cost of water > was
> > about $150.00 per month to support just a small garden, plus the asparagus
> > patch.
>
> People who choose to live in areas where drought is typical need to
> have their own private well... even if only a shallow well for
> watering crops, washing the car, and such high volume use where water
> quality for mineral taste doesn't matter.
>
> Sheldon

No argument there... but I need to be able to afford the permits,
getting the well dug, and the electricity to run the well. I'd rather
put in a wind mill when I can.

Shallow wells here are a bad idea.
--
Peace, Om

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"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Jerry Avins > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > Last couple of summers I gardened, the cost of water was about $150.00
> > per month to support just a small garden, plus the asparagus patch.
> >
> > It's less expensive to hit the local farmers market.
> >
> > I plan to experiment with container gardening, just have not gotten
> > around to it yet.
>
> Have you considered using gray water for your garden? The output of your
> shower, dishwasher and clothes washer -- the last two are easy because
> of their internal pumps -- is fine for vegetables. You could even catch
> the water from your wash basin in a large jug that you empty periodically.
>
> Jerry

I have. We don't use a dishwasher. It'd be sink and shower water, and
water from the washing machine.

I'd have to check local ordinances as we are over a recharge zone. The
aquifer people get uppity about that sort of thing.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Dee Dee" > wrote:

> "Jerry Avins" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Sheldon wrote:
> >> Omelet wrote:
> >>> Sheldon wrote:
> >>>>> Why didn't you plant tomatoes, you have better tomato growing climate
> >>>> than me.
> >>> Cost of water. Last couple of summers I gardened, the cost of water >
> >>> was about $150.00 per month to support just a small garden, plus the
> >>> asparagus patch.
> >>
> >> People who choose to live in areas where drought is typical need to
> >> have their own private well... even if only a shallow well for
> >> watering crops, washing the car, and such high volume use where water
> >> quality for mineral taste doesn't matter.
> >
> > What is "shallow? My well in the Catskills, right next to a spring-fed
> > lake, went down 280 feet before hitting water.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> Ours here -- 500'
> Any deeper and we'll be in hell.
> Dee Dee

Deeper wells yield cleaner water.

I'm not sure of the well depths around here.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Jerry Avins > wrote:

> Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>
>
> > Psst, Jerry...Krispy Kreme!
>
> Yes. Imagine the brouhaha if they had written "crisp cream"!
>
> ...
>
> My temper seems to be rather crispoid at the moment.
>
> Jerry

On a side note, Krispy Kream donuts are GROSS!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Jerry Avins > wrote:

> Dee Dee wrote:
> > "Jerry Avins" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Sheldon wrote:
> >>> Omelet wrote:
> >>>> Sheldon wrote:
> >>>>>> Why didn't you plant tomatoes, you have better tomato growing climate
> >>>>> than me.
> >>>> Cost of water. Last couple of summers I gardened, the cost of water >
> >>>> was about $150.00 per month to support just a small garden, plus the
> >>>> asparagus patch.
> >>> People who choose to live in areas where drought is typical need to
> >>> have their own private well... even if only a shallow well for
> >>> watering crops, washing the car, and such high volume use where water
> >>> quality for mineral taste doesn't matter.
> >> What is "shallow? My well in the Catskills, right next to a spring-fed
> >> lake, went down 280 feet before hitting water.
> >>
> >> Jerry
> >
> > Ours here -- 500'
> > Any deeper and we'll be in hell.
>
> Ouch! Well hell! :-)
>
> Anyhow, I'm beginning to get the idea that Sheldon shoots from the hip.
>
> Jerry

Sheldon shoots from the crotch.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Max Hauser" > wrote in
:

> "enigma" in
> :>
>
> [After describing making tomato catsup regularly]

i wouldn't call it regularly. just every so often when i have
both tomatoes & time.

>> the original American catsups were commonly Concord grape
>> based.
>
> Do you have a source or reference for the originals being
> grape based? I'm interested. As I've been posting here,
> by the early 1800s a variety of catsup recipes were in use.
> Both Eliza Leslie and Mary Randolph's books from that time
> (I'm looking at Randolph's book as I type this) gave
> recipes for tomato catsup/catchup. (The 20th-century
> Fannie Farmer cookbooks that I mentioned in the original
> posting have recipes for grape catsups, by the way.)

i'll have to look those up. were those cookbooks Southern in
origin by any chance? or European?
i did have links to the grape catsup on my dearly departed
computer, but even so, they would be 6 or 7 years old now and
probably dead.
at any rate, i did find this about tomatoes in the early US:
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/about/tomato.jsp
>
>> tomato based catsups were unheard of until the late 1800s
>> when it was discovered that tomatoes were not just
>> ornamental, but actually edible.
>
> I believe you must mean "until the 1700s." That's the era
> the 1988 _Larousse Gastronomique_ gives for European
> recognition of tomato edibility. That reference book
> mentions its import from Peru to Spain in the 1500s,
> remaining an ornamental plant, presumed poisonous, until
> the 1700s. Adding also that tomatoes are diuretic,
> laxative, and refreshing.

yes, Europeans ate them far earlier than the English (and,
hence, the Colonies).
here's a grape catsup:

Grape Catsup

Five cupfuls of pulp or juice, one cupful of brown sugar, one
cupful of vinegar, one teaspoonful of black pepper, one
teaspoonful of cloves, one teaspoonful of cinnamon, and one
teaspoonful of salt. Boil half away.

and an apple catsup:

12 tart apples, pared, cored and quartered.
1 c sugar
1 tsp white pepper
1 tsp ground cloves
1 tsp dry mustard
2 white onions, minced
2 c pickling vinegar
2 tsp cinnamon
1 tbsp salt
1/2 c prepared horseradish

Place the apples in a large pot, covered with water.
Cook slowly until the apples are soft and the water has almost
completely evaporated.
Put the apples through a sieve or vegetable mill. You should
have about 1 quart of pulp.
Add the remaining ingredients and heat until boiling.
Reduce heat and simmer for an hour.
Keep refrigerated. Excellent with roast pork, ham, goose or
duck.

i'll vouch for the apple recipe, but i haven't tried the
grapes yet. if there's enough wild grapes (which are, of
course, Concord grapes around here) this year, i will though.

lee

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:01:53 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Jerry Avins > wrote:
>
>> Dee Dee wrote:
>> > "Jerry Avins" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Sheldon wrote:
>> >>> Omelet wrote:
>> >>>> Sheldon wrote:
>> >>>>>> Why didn't you plant tomatoes, you have better tomato growing climate
>> >>>>> than me.
>> >>>> Cost of water. Last couple of summers I gardened, the cost of water >
>> >>>> was about $150.00 per month to support just a small garden, plus the
>> >>>> asparagus patch.
>> >>> People who choose to live in areas where drought is typical need to
>> >>> have their own private well... even if only a shallow well for
>> >>> watering crops, washing the car, and such high volume use where water
>> >>> quality for mineral taste doesn't matter.
>> >> What is "shallow? My well in the Catskills, right next to a spring-fed
>> >> lake, went down 280 feet before hitting water.
>> >>
>> >> Jerry
>> >
>> > Ours here -- 500'
>> > Any deeper and we'll be in hell.
>>
>> Ouch! Well hell! :-)
>>
>> Anyhow, I'm beginning to get the idea that Sheldon shoots from the hip.
>>
>> Jerry
>
>Sheldon shoots from the crotch.

i'm not sure he shoots at all.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> >Sheldon shoots from the crotch.
>
> i'm not sure he shoots at all.
>
> your pal,
> blake

True dat.
He's a gun hater... but I was not talking about bullets. <eg>
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:25:41 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> >Sheldon shoots from the crotch.
>>
>> i'm not sure he shoots at all.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>True dat.
>He's a gun hater... but I was not talking about bullets. <eg>

neither was i.

your pal,
blake

Lee ("enigma"), thanks for the detailed follow-up.

"enigma" in :
> "Max Hauser" in :
>
>> "enigma" in
>> :
> >>
>>> the original American catsups were commonly
>>> Concord grape based.
>>
>> Eliza Leslie and Mary Randolph's books from
>> that time... gave recipes for tomato catsup.
>
> i'll have to look those up. were those cookbooks Southern in origin by any
> chance? or European?

Of those (the two main US cookbooks of the 1800s, appearing early that
century), Randolph was in the Southeast, Leslie in Philadelphia (although
she had traveled). In a memoir, Leslie expressed frustration because she'd
had literary ambitions but became known instead for the best-selling US
cookbook of the century. (Both these books have been on display at the
Copia food-wine museum in Napa County, California).

Leslie's second cookbook by the way was _Domestic French Cookery_ (1832),
mostly translated from Sulpice Barué. It was reprinted for decades.
(Leslie wasn't the first to popularize French cooking in the young US, of
course -- Thomas Jefferson was among her predecessors. Think of these the
next time someone confidently declares that Julia Child first introduced
French cooking to US readers.)

> i did have links to the grape catsup on my dearly departed computer, but
> even so, they would be 6 or 7 years old now and probably dead.

(:- God forbid anyone preserve online food info for that long ...;-)
Compare recent posting I put on rec.food.cooking under the "Spaghetti"
thread. It has a link to the original 1982 posting on that newsgroup.

>>> tomato ... catsups were unheard of until late 1800s
>>
>> I believe you must mean "until the 1700s." ...
>
> yes, Europeans ate them far earlier than the English (and, hence, the
> Colonies).

That could be. My main point was that tomato catsups were already in
early-1800s mainstream US cookbooks.

> here's a grape catsup: ...
>and an apple catsup: ...

Thanks for posting the recipes. (Here, they may remain accessible longer
than 6-7 years.) I'm thinking of making one of the old catsups, I thought
maybe Leslie's indestructible savory "Sea Catchup," described earlier in
this thread.

-- Max