In article . com>,
Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:

> > That was delightful. ;-)
>
> When we get back I'll try to remember to mp3ize a live recording of it
> and email it to you
> >

Please do!
That's worthy of learning on my guitar. <g>
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Dee Dee" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> > I'm not a pessimist, and am far enough away from proposed ground zeros
> > to at least have a chance. ;-)
> >
> > If I were to die, at least I'd not die hungry.
> > --
> > Peace, Om
>
>
> About a year ago we were at a Costco in one particular town that had a
> bucket of survival food, I believe it was $75. None of the other Costco
> stores have carried it, because I've asked. I would have purchased it that
> day, but our car was loaded down.

Oh I've heard of those!
Supposed to be good for laying in for hurricanes, tornadoes and
earthquakes etc.

>
> What has made me wonder is, does someone know something about this
> particular store area that the rest of us don't and that is the reason they
> are carrying this product?

What is your biggest disaster danger in your area? Here it is tornadoes
and floods. We are far enough away from the coast to not NORMALLY be
affected by hurricanes, but Katrina was supposed to possibly come far
enough inland to cause serious flooding.

I know the local stores were wiped out of bottled water and a lot of
canned food, but I keep a lot of salt free cans on hand normally and we
get water in gallon glass bottles from the local vending machines so we
were well set. We have about 20 bottles. I just stocked up on pet food
and bought some batteries for the flashlights. Oh, and lamp oil since I
have 4 oil lamps I use for power outages. We've been without power for
up to 2 days during ice storms. Surprisingly, lamp oil WITHOUT
citronella was hard to find! I had to hit the craft store for it.

Citronella laced lamp oil is not recommended for indoor use.

There is a slight danger of earthquakes, but the Balcones fault has not
moved for 300,000 years so I'm not too worried about sitting right on
top of it. <g>

A tornado touched down less than 5 miles from my house this spring, but
the hilly terrain protects us from that somewhat. We are West of IH-35
and most tornadoes stay East of it.

>
> I'm still pondering this. -as you can tell.
> Dee Dee

So ask them. :-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:21:08 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> wrote:

>"blake murphy" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:24:42 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>"Bobo Bonobo®" > wrote in message
roups.com...
>>>> On Aug 28, 11:09 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>>>>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> news >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > In article >,
>>>>> > "Pete C." > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >> > What percentage would you calculate?
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Difficult to calculate globally as it would vary greatly from area
>>>>> >> to
>>>>> >> area.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> In places like parts of Africa I expect the survival skills exist,
>>>>> >> however the resources to support the overpopulation do not so with
>>>>> >> the
>>>>> >> end of the constant foreign food aid that makes the overpopulation
>>>>> >> possible I expect there would be probably a 75% population drop
>>>>> >> between
>>>>> >> starvation and conflict over the limited resources.
>>>>>
>>>>> > Yeah. They tend to lack the resources and refuse to practice birth
>>>>> > control.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our government helps make that worse by crumbling under pressure from
>>>>> the
>>>>> Kristian right. You've read about that.
>>>>
>>>> And of course, I shouldn't blame the boy-fondlers at the Vatican for
>>>> everything. The Radical Right here in America are also anti-
>>>> population control. Their mindset is that sex should have
>>>> consequences, especially for women. Bring back the "Coathanger Days."
>>>>
>>>> --Bryan
>>>>
>>>
>>>Watch out for Mitt Romney. He's suggesting the same thing. He wants to
>>>overturn Roe v Wade, and let the states decide the laws for themselves.
>>>
>>
>> i can't decide whether i should vote for romney's shoulders you could
>> land a 747 on or fred thompson's smell of old english and cigar smoke.
>>
>> your pal,
>> chris
>
>Heh :-)
>
>I've heard it said that it's hard to figure out whether Romney is
>pro-choice, or Mr Multiple Choice, depending on which group of supporters
>he's courting at the moment.
>

it's hard for me to figure out why matthews doesn't burst out flaming
from the closet.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:37:32 -0400, "cybercat" >
wrote:

>
>"blake murphy" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:24:42 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>"Bobo Bonobo®" > wrote
>>
>> i can't decide whether i should vote for romney's shoulders you could
>> land a 747 on or fred thompson's smell of old english and cigar smoke.
>>
>
>This sounds a little ***. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
>

just quoting from some figures from the mainstream media, who should
know.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:05:13 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
wrote:

>
>"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:24:42 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Bobo Bonobo®" > wrote
>>>
>>> i can't decide whether i should vote for romney's shoulders you could
>>> land a 747 on or fred thompson's smell of old english and cigar smoke.
>>>
>>
>> This sounds a little ***. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
>
>I'm wondering if the guy that was found in the restroom touching his twinkie
>toes with the cop's twinkie toes and is in big trouble -- is this illegal?
>I don't know if he was on government time, but evidently it is not a crime
>to do sexual acts on government time.
>
>But is the mere fact that he was touching toes, illegal? Or even, is it
>illegal if he was actually "doin' it"? I didn't think doing a *** thing was
>a crime.
>Does anyone know?
>Dee Dee
>

until recently, depending on the state, *** sex of any kind was
illegal (and heterosexual sodomy in many places as well). the supreme
court put an end to that in 2003:

<http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/26/scotus.sodomy/index.html>

sex of any kind in a public place is illegal almost everywhere. rest
rooms would fall under the definition of a 'public place.'

craig, i think, pleaded guilty to 'disorderly conduct,' in that he was
viewed as soliciting for sex in a public restroom. he says that it
was all a misunderstanding, that he merely has a 'wide stance' in a
bathroom stall (could he be a squatter?), that he dropped a piece of
paper on the floor, etc. *** or not, he seems a perfect idiot.

your pal,
blake

blake wrote on Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:32:23 GMT:


bm> sex of any kind in a public place is illegal almost
bm> everywhere. rest rooms would fall under the definition of
bm> a 'public place.'

bm> craig, i think, pleaded guilty to 'disorderly conduct,' in
bm> that he was viewed as soliciting for sex in a public
bm> restroom. he says that it was all a misunderstanding, that
bm> he merely has a 'wide stance' in a bathroom stall (could he
bm> be a squatter?), that he dropped a piece of paper on the
bm> floor, etc. *** or not, he seems a perfect idiot.

I don't know about his intelligence or actual gender preferences
but he has certainly proved that he is a liar and a hypocrite.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:33:06 -0400, Goomba38 >
wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>
>> for what it's worth, rotel can be found in maryland (or at least the
>> suburbs of d.c.) i don't know if a large hispanic population has
>> anything to do with it or not.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>35 yrs ago as a kid my mom bought Rotel at Giant in Maryland. I don't
>recall many Hispanic folks then but... I could have easily missed it?

as with many places in the u.s., hispanics' numbers are increasing in
maryland rapidly, and have been for a few years. this has caused
consternation to some who got off the boat somewhat earlier.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:34:38 -0400, Goomba38 >
wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>
>>> I've never heard of using Velveeta for it, but Pimento Cheese is a much
>>> loved filling down south. Usually cheddar, some minced onions
>>> (optional), minced pimentos, some mayo mixed together.
>>> Every year I go to The Master's at the Augusta National and I always get
>>> the pimento cheese sandwich they are known for. Can't be beat for $1.50
>>> or so...? Only improved with an equally inexpensive beer in the other hand.
>>
>> isn't pimento cheese what elvis insisted on for cheeseburgers?
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>I dunno? I've never heard that..?

that's my understanding. here's a mention, and some pimento cheese
dope, courtesy of google:

<http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/features_food_blog/2006/05/the_pate_of_the.html>

your pal,
blake

Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
>
>
>
>
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote:
> > > Actually the original thread was survival abilities of the mass
> > > population after a Nuclear Holocaust... ;-)
>
> > > The ability to hunt and gather to survive.
>
> > > It was on topic as it involved finding and preparing your own food.
>
> > > I submitted that 75% of city populations would starve to death as they
> > > some of them don't even know that food is grown in dirt, and meat
> > > comes from live animals.
>
> > > They'd not have a clu' what to eat.
>
> > It's a totally irrational question. Really, if you think you're going to
> > survive a nuclear holocaust on the scale you suggest you might as well kill
> > yourself NOW. Velveeta might survive (heheh). Cockroaches would survive.
> > Bees would survive, probably. And beets LOL
>
> > As others have suggested, are you going to eat vegetables that are packed
> > with radiation? Animals that you killed saturated with radiation poisoning
> > (much as you would already be yourself)? Heh. I don't think so. I don't
> > think you'd live that long to care in the scenario you propose.
>
> > Perhaps what you meant to say was "could you live off the land in the style
> > of 1800", which has been documented on several PBS series, quite nicely.
> > But not after a friggin nuclear holocaust such as you describe. That's a
> > totally irrational question.
>
> > Jill
>
> I'm not a pessimist, and am far enough away from proposed ground zeros
> to at least have a chance. ;-)



During the Cold War days San Antonio was a major Soviet target because
of it's extensive military bases/facilities...if the blast pattern
were large enough you'd hear it where you live by Austin.


--
Best
Greg

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:45:10 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> wrote:
>
>Where do you suppose is the nearest ground zero from where you live, and
>what is the name of that place?
>

heh. when i lived in d.c. near dupont circle, i was in the zone of
'total vaporization,' assuming the white house as ground zero. good
times.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:18:36 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> "jmcquown" > wrote:
>
>> Have you never heard of nuclear winter? You wouldn't be able to grow a damn
>> thing for years. After the fallout (which is bad enough) it's supposed to
>> freeze over like an ice age. Guess that's a Biblical prediction (don't get
>> me started). You'd better start canning and preserving now to have enough
>> to eat when Hell freezes over.
>>
>> Jill
>
>Would you lament if the human race was wiped off of the earth?

i wouldn't cry if jill were to go.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:06:38 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> wrote:

>"Omelet" > wrote in message
>news
>> In article >,
>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>>
>>> Look who you're dealing with here, Jill. Seriously....
>>
>> Bite me babycakes.
>>
>> Have you ever passed an IQ test?
>> --
>> Peace, Om
>
>Yes. But, they don't test common sense, or one's ongoing efforts as far as
>learning. You will now tell me you have a high IQ, but that doesn't explain
>your failure to be fully informed about the results of nuclear war.
>

isn't nuclear war kind of last year? i thought now we were supposed
to be ****ing in our pants about islamofascists coming over here to
slit our throats.

your pal,
blake

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:06:38 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Omelet" > wrote in message
>>news
>>> In article >,
>>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Look who you're dealing with here, Jill. Seriously....
>>>
>>> Bite me babycakes.
>>>
>>> Have you ever passed an IQ test?
>>> --
>>> Peace, Om
>>
>>Yes. But, they don't test common sense, or one's ongoing efforts as far as
>>learning. You will now tell me you have a high IQ, but that doesn't
>>explain
>>your failure to be fully informed about the results of nuclear war.
>>
>
> isn't nuclear war kind of last year? i thought now we were supposed
> to be ****ing in our pants about islamofascists coming over here to
> slit our throats.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Oh wait...here comes one now. Pass the ammo.

The Joneses wrote:

> Neat book series was _Island in the Sea of Time_ by S.M. Stirling.
> Explored what happened when Nantucket Island and a Coast Guard ship were
> tripped back to 1300 bc. Lots of very coincidental things happened to help
> them survive, but very eye opening on just how hard it is to "live off the
> land."


That's a GREAT book, and he wrote several sequels. Stirling at one
time posted on the Usenet group soc.history.what-if (it's devoted to
"alternate history", one of my fave sci - fi/fantasy genres)...

One thing that I remember from the book is that they certainly didn't
suffer from a lack of seafood. When the time shift happened the seas
surrounding Nantucket were FULL FULL FULL of all sorts of fish that by
our time had been pretty much depleted...cod, anybody...???

But yeah, otherwise present - day Nantucket is not so well - known for
it's agricultural base...

A poster on shw-i ( Dave Knudson ) was inspired to write a "novel" of
sorts on that group entitled "USA ISOT 2002 - 1942". What happened to
Nantucket in Stirling's novel happens to the entire continental
US...we wake up on one fine day in the spring of 2002 and find that
the rest of the world has reverted back to the same exact month and
day date -- in 1942. The world is embroiled in WWII and all of a
sudden something strange happens and some kind of technologically
advanced USA appears on the scene. It's lots of fun, and very well -
written. Suggest you google it up. It was virtually book length and
I wish he'd considered working it up for publication...the guy is VERY
talented. It was "edge of your seat" stuff...

There are no food problems per se in this USA 2002 sent back to 1942,
but petroleum sure IS a problem...

[Spoiler: as happened in our linear timeline, we win WWII... ;-) ]



--
Best
Greg

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:33:06 -0400, Goomba38 >
> wrote:
>
>>blake murphy wrote:
>>
>>> for what it's worth, rotel can be found in maryland (or at least the
>>> suburbs of d.c.) i don't know if a large hispanic population has
>>> anything to do with it or not.
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>>
>>35 yrs ago as a kid my mom bought Rotel at Giant in Maryland. I don't
>>recall many Hispanic folks then but... I could have easily missed it?
>
> as with many places in the u.s., hispanics' numbers are increasing in
> maryland rapidly, and have been for a few years. this has caused
> consternation to some who got off the boat somewhat earlier.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Now how does this work? Some of my ancestors were here to meet the boats
who carried other ancestors who came on boats. Should I or should I not
have consternation ;-) Hmm ..
Dee Dee

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "jmcquown" > wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote:
>> > In article >,
>> > "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Where do you suppose is the nearest ground zero from where you live,
>> >> and what is the name of that place?
>> >
>> > Austin capitol, 35 miles.
>> > Possibly the military base in San Antonio which is even farther.
>> >
>> > There is a chance of nuclear fallout but that would be world wide.
>> >
>> > You'd go ahead and take your cyanide pills.
>> > I'd take my chances. I know most of the local edible fauna and can
>> > trap, shoot and dress out wild game.
>> >
>> > I know dozens that would not have any idea how to do that.
>>
>> Have you never heard of nuclear winter? You wouldn't be able to grow a
>> damn
>> thing for years. After the fallout (which is bad enough) it's supposed
>> to
>> freeze over like an ice age. Guess that's a Biblical prediction (don't
>> get
>> me started). You'd better start canning and preserving now to have
>> enough
>> to eat when Hell freezes over.
>>
>> Jill
>
> Would you lament if the human race was wiped off of the earth?
> --
> Peace, Om

What? Would she be here to lament? How'd she make that deal?
Dee Dee

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Dee Dee" > wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>> news
>> > I'm not a pessimist, and am far enough away from proposed ground zeros
>> > to at least have a chance. ;-)
>> >
>> > If I were to die, at least I'd not die hungry.
>> > --
>> > Peace, Om
>>
>>
>> About a year ago we were at a Costco in one particular town that had a
>> bucket of survival food, I believe it was $75. None of the other Costco
>> stores have carried it, because I've asked. I would have purchased it
>> that
>> day, but our car was loaded down.
>
> Oh I've heard of those!
> Supposed to be good for laying in for hurricanes, tornadoes and
> earthquakes etc.
>
>>
>> What has made me wonder is, does someone know something about this
>> particular store area that the rest of us don't and that is the reason
>> they
>> are carrying this product?
>
> What is your biggest disaster danger in your area? >>

LOL -- Washington, D. C. -- true! 70 +/- miles (or less) as the crow
files.
Then there's Greenbrier, WV south of us where there have been politico caves
forever -- hee hee.
Dee Dee

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:45:10 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> > wrote:
>>
>>Where do you suppose is the nearest ground zero from where you live, and
>>what is the name of that place?
>>
>
> heh. when i lived in d.c. near dupont circle, i was in the zone of
> 'total vaporization,' assuming the white house as ground zero. good
> times.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Blake, I'm rural, 70 +/- miles from you, but I don't think you need to worry
about getting to my house in time. You will definitely be vapor. Or, maybe
I should say, I needn't worry about you getting to my house. ;-)
Dee Dee

In article om>,
Gregory Morrow > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "jmcquown" > wrote:
> > > > Actually the original thread was survival abilities of the mass
> > > > population after a Nuclear Holocaust... ;-)
> >
> > > > The ability to hunt and gather to survive.
> >
> > > > It was on topic as it involved finding and preparing your own food.
> >
> > > > I submitted that 75% of city populations would starve to death as they
> > > > some of them don't even know that food is grown in dirt, and meat
> > > > comes from live animals.
> >
> > > > They'd not have a clu' what to eat.
> >
> > > It's a totally irrational question. Really, if you think you're going to
> > > survive a nuclear holocaust on the scale you suggest you might as well
> > > kill
> > > yourself NOW. Velveeta might survive (heheh). Cockroaches would
> > > survive.
> > > Bees would survive, probably. And beets LOL
> >
> > > As others have suggested, are you going to eat vegetables that are packed
> > > with radiation? Animals that you killed saturated with radiation
> > > poisoning
> > > (much as you would already be yourself)? Heh. I don't think so. I
> > > don't
> > > think you'd live that long to care in the scenario you propose.
> >
> > > Perhaps what you meant to say was "could you live off the land in the
> > > style
> > > of 1800", which has been documented on several PBS series, quite nicely.
> > > But not after a friggin nuclear holocaust such as you describe. That's a
> > > totally irrational question.
> >
> > > Jill
> >
> > I'm not a pessimist, and am far enough away from proposed ground zeros
> > to at least have a chance. ;-)
>
>
>
> During the Cold War days San Antonio was a major Soviet target because
> of it's extensive military bases/facilities...if the blast pattern
> were large enough you'd hear it where you live by Austin.
>
>
> --
> Best
> Greg

Yeah. It'd depend on the megatonnage used.
My survival might be a moot point if I'm ashes at the outset.

But I'd be beyond caring and so would my family and pets. ;-)

I'm a bit over 40 miles from San Antonio.
But the bases are on this side of the city. (North)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:18:36 -0500, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > "jmcquown" > wrote:
> >
> >> Have you never heard of nuclear winter? You wouldn't be able to grow a
> >> damn
> >> thing for years. After the fallout (which is bad enough) it's supposed to
> >> freeze over like an ice age. Guess that's a Biblical prediction (don't
> >> get
> >> me started). You'd better start canning and preserving now to have enough
> >> to eat when Hell freezes over.
> >>
> >> Jill
> >
> >Would you lament if the human race was wiped off of the earth?
>
> i wouldn't cry if jill were to go.
>
> your pal,
> blake

I'm guessing she's read Revelations.

So have I. It's fascinating reading.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:06:38 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> > wrote:
>
> >"Omelet" > wrote in message
> >news
> >> In article >,
> >> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Look who you're dealing with here, Jill. Seriously....
> >>
> >> Bite me babycakes.
> >>
> >> Have you ever passed an IQ test?
> >> --
> >> Peace, Om
> >
> >Yes. But, they don't test common sense, or one's ongoing efforts as far as
> >learning. You will now tell me you have a high IQ, but that doesn't explain
> >your failure to be fully informed about the results of nuclear war.
> >
>
> isn't nuclear war kind of last year? i thought now we were supposed
> to be ****ing in our pants about islamofascists coming over here to
> slit our throats.
>
> your pal,
> blake

No, they saw your head off.

Or blow you up.

I can defend against THAT somewhat. I don't need survival skills other
than a practiced fast draw and decent ammo.

I've got those.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:

> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:06:38 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>"Omelet" > wrote in message
> >>news > >>> In article >,
> >>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Look who you're dealing with here, Jill. Seriously....
> >>>
> >>> Bite me babycakes.
> >>>
> >>> Have you ever passed an IQ test?
> >>> --
> >>> Peace, Om
> >>
> >>Yes. But, they don't test common sense, or one's ongoing efforts as far as
> >>learning. You will now tell me you have a high IQ, but that doesn't
> >>explain
> >>your failure to be fully informed about the results of nuclear war.
> >>
> >
> > isn't nuclear war kind of last year? i thought now we were supposed
> > to be ****ing in our pants about islamofascists coming over here to
> > slit our throats.
> >
> > your pal,
> > blake
>
> Oh wait...here comes one now. Pass the ammo.

ROFL!!! Good call!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

cyberTWOT wrote:


> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:24:42 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> > > wrote:
>
> >>"Bobo Bonobo®" > wrote
>
> > i can't decide whether i should vote for romney's shoulders you could
> > land a 747 on or fred thompson's smell of old english and cigar smoke.
>
> This sounds a little ***. Not that there's anything wrong with that.



So does that mean you love me...???

)


--
Best
Greg

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "jmcquown" > wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where do you suppose is the nearest ground zero from where you
>>>> live, and what is the name of that place?
>>>
>>> Austin capitol, 35 miles.
>>> Possibly the military base in San Antonio which is even farther.
>>>
>>> There is a chance of nuclear fallout but that would be world wide.
>>>
>>> You'd go ahead and take your cyanide pills.
>>> I'd take my chances. I know most of the local edible fauna and can
>>> trap, shoot and dress out wild game.
>>>
>>> I know dozens that would not have any idea how to do that.
>>
>> Have you never heard of nuclear winter? You wouldn't be able to
>> grow a damn thing for years. After the fallout (which is bad
>> enough) it's supposed to freeze over like an ice age. Guess that's
>> a Biblical prediction (don't get me started). You'd better start
>> canning and preserving now to have enough to eat when Hell freezes
>> over.
>>
> Would you lament if the human race was wiped off of the earth?

In that event I wouldn't be here so I no, I wouldn't care. But that's not
the point. The point is you're asking about farming in the aftermath of a
nuclear holocaust. You wouldn't be here unless you were living in a bunker.
So what's the point of your question???

In article . com>,
Gregory Morrow > wrote:

> The Joneses wrote:
>
> > Neat book series was _Island in the Sea of Time_ by S.M. Stirling.
> > Explored what happened when Nantucket Island and a Coast Guard ship were
> > tripped back to 1300 bc. Lots of very coincidental things happened to help
> > them survive, but very eye opening on just how hard it is to "live off the
> > land."
>
>
> That's a GREAT book, and he wrote several sequels. Stirling at one
> time posted on the Usenet group soc.history.what-if (it's devoted to
> "alternate history", one of my fave sci - fi/fantasy genres)...
>
> One thing that I remember from the book is that they certainly didn't
> suffer from a lack of seafood. When the time shift happened the seas
> surrounding Nantucket were FULL FULL FULL of all sorts of fish that by
> our time had been pretty much depleted...cod, anybody...???
>
> But yeah, otherwise present - day Nantucket is not so well - known for
> it's agricultural base...

I read that series. Twice. :-)

Good stuff. Political too since the main Female character was a retired
military...

Black ******* Female.

It was a very complex plot line thru all three books and VERY good
reading.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Dee Dee" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> > In article >,
> > "jmcquown" > wrote:
> >
> >> Omelet wrote:
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Where do you suppose is the nearest ground zero from where you live,
> >> >> and what is the name of that place?
> >> >
> >> > Austin capitol, 35 miles.
> >> > Possibly the military base in San Antonio which is even farther.
> >> >
> >> > There is a chance of nuclear fallout but that would be world wide.
> >> >
> >> > You'd go ahead and take your cyanide pills.
> >> > I'd take my chances. I know most of the local edible fauna and can
> >> > trap, shoot and dress out wild game.
> >> >
> >> > I know dozens that would not have any idea how to do that.
> >>
> >> Have you never heard of nuclear winter? You wouldn't be able to grow a
> >> damn
> >> thing for years. After the fallout (which is bad enough) it's supposed
> >> to
> >> freeze over like an ice age. Guess that's a Biblical prediction (don't
> >> get
> >> me started). You'd better start canning and preserving now to have
> >> enough
> >> to eat when Hell freezes over.
> >>
> >> Jill
> >
> > Would you lament if the human race was wiped off of the earth?
> > --
> > Peace, Om
>
> What? Would she be here to lament? How'd she make that deal?
> Dee Dee

Bitch. <grins>
--
Peace, Om

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"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>
>> Look who you're dealing with here, Jill. Seriously....
>
> Bite me babycakes.
>
> Have you ever passed an IQ test?

We all know you've passed a gun test and I, for one, don't want to be
anywhere near you when you assume a nuclear blast has gone off!

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "jmcquown" > wrote:
>
>> No, you'd die of radiation poisoning either way according to your
>> plan. We all lived through the entire NON-EVENT that was Y-2K.
>> Relax... and you didn't answer my question about eating irradiated
>> vegetables and wildlife. Assuming you survived the blast in some
>> underground shelter, how would you survive eating food tainted by
>> radioation? Do you have some massive underground storage with food?
>> Oh, and have you written your manifesto yet? You do realize you
>> sound like a survivalist nutcase, right?
>>
>> Jill
>
> <sigh>
>
> My original question was rhetorical.
>
> How many people do you personally know that can grow and prepare their
> own food from scratch?
>
I know I can. Wouldn't like slitting an animals throat so I'd probably go
vegetarian first. I wouldn't have a problem with that. But I'd miss my
beef and pork. Not so much chickens.

> There are more disasters than a theoretical nuclear one. It was merely
> meant as an example.
>
> Relax. I'm no nutcase.
>
> I have yet to even try to eat the purslane that tries to take over the
> flower beds every year.
>
(laughing) but does it taste good? I won't eat anything that doesn't taste
good, sorry. Are people eating purslane now because they're "supposed to"?
This is like taking fish oil tablets and garlic tablets (HELLO, just eat
garlic!) because some ad on TV said do it.

> Animals would die from radiation poisoning. There would be no
> "irradiated" wildlife.

There would be irradiated vegetables and plant life all over the place.
Don't kid yourself.

In article >,
"Dee Dee" > wrote:

> > What is your biggest disaster danger in your area? >>
>
> LOL -- Washington, D. C. -- true! 70 +/- miles (or less) as the crow
> files.
> Then there's Greenbrier, WV south of us where there have been politico caves
> forever -- hee hee.
> Dee Dee

Well, I was referring to _natural_ disasters, but I understand living
near a major target. ;-)

I have a very close friend (17 years+) that works in DC.

He was across the street from the Pentagon the morning of 9-11.
His e-mail comment to me was that "it did not feel good being a target".
--
Peace, Om

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"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"jmcquown" > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "jmcquown" > wrote:
> >
> >> Omelet wrote:
> >>> In article >,
> >>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Where do you suppose is the nearest ground zero from where you
> >>>> live, and what is the name of that place?
> >>>
> >>> Austin capitol, 35 miles.
> >>> Possibly the military base in San Antonio which is even farther.
> >>>
> >>> There is a chance of nuclear fallout but that would be world wide.
> >>>
> >>> You'd go ahead and take your cyanide pills.
> >>> I'd take my chances. I know most of the local edible fauna and can
> >>> trap, shoot and dress out wild game.
> >>>
> >>> I know dozens that would not have any idea how to do that.
> >>
> >> Have you never heard of nuclear winter? You wouldn't be able to
> >> grow a damn thing for years. After the fallout (which is bad
> >> enough) it's supposed to freeze over like an ice age. Guess that's
> >> a Biblical prediction (don't get me started). You'd better start
> >> canning and preserving now to have enough to eat when Hell freezes
> >> over.
> >>
> > Would you lament if the human race was wiped off of the earth?
>
> In that event I wouldn't be here so I no, I wouldn't care. But that's not
> the point. The point is you're asking about farming in the aftermath of a
> nuclear holocaust. You wouldn't be here unless you were living in a bunker.
> So what's the point of your question???

Did I mention farming?

Not once. ;-)

I was referring to understanding that food came from plants that grew in
the dirt and animals that ran or flew around with feathers, fur, scales
or slimy skin (in the case of frogs).

So, what percentage of modern, city dwelling humans understand and could
deal with that?
--
Peace, Om

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"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"jmcquown" > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
> >
> >> Look who you're dealing with here, Jill. Seriously....
> >
> > Bite me babycakes.
> >
> > Have you ever passed an IQ test?
>
> We all know you've passed a gun test and I, for one, don't want to be
> anywhere near you when you assume a nuclear blast has gone off!

Smart. ;-)

But seriously, I'm not a violent person by nature. Not at all.
I've never committed a crime (except for a few traffic violations) and
I've never knowingly harmed a fellow human. Nor do I want to.

I'm a bit hurt actually that you presume that just because I can handle
a self-defense weapon that I'd automatically become a killing machine.

If you really think that, then you don't understand the concept of
"self-defense".
--
Peace, Om

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"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"jmcquown" > wrote:

> > My original question was rhetorical.
> >
> > How many people do you personally know that can grow and prepare their
> > own food from scratch?
> >
> I know I can. Wouldn't like slitting an animals throat so I'd probably go
> vegetarian first. I wouldn't have a problem with that. But I'd miss my
> beef and pork. Not so much chickens.

I can and have done it, but I never did "enjoy" it. You literally have
to close your mind to the initial killing.

I quit raising animals for food a few years ago as I just could not do
it any longer...

I was raised from a very young age that this was the way it was too. I
watched dad kill rabbits when I was maybe 4 years old. Possibly younger.

>
> > There are more disasters than a theoretical nuclear one. It was merely
> > meant as an example.
> >
> > Relax. I'm no nutcase.
> >
> > I have yet to even try to eat the purslane that tries to take over the
> > flower beds every year.
> >
> (laughing) but does it taste good?

Dunno. <G> I've not tried it.

> I won't eat anything that doesn't taste
> good, sorry. Are people eating purslane now because they're "supposed to"?

It's supposed to be very nutritious... but so are vitamin supplements!

> This is like taking fish oil tablets and garlic tablets (HELLO, just eat
> garlic!) because some ad on TV said do it.

I've never been able to handle fish oil capsules. ;-o
They make me nauseated.

>
> > Animals would die from radiation poisoning. There would be no
> > "irradiated" wildlife.
>
> There would be irradiated vegetables and plant life all over the place.
> Don't kid yourself.

Animals would die from radiation poisoning the same as humans would.
Plants, maybe.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
>> This is like taking fish oil tablets and garlic tablets (HELLO, just eat
>> garlic!) because some ad on TV said do it.
>
> I've never been able to handle fish oil capsules. ;-o
> They make me nauseated.
>
-
> Peace, Om

This is absolutely delicious -- no upchuck, nothing staying with you and
tasting over and over, no nausea -- like a little dessert, but not sweet.
Tastes good!
Only the orange flavor (original) for me. I've been taking about 3 years
now. Easy to carry packet. Tear it open, open your mouth, and suck it
out -- or squeeze it out into a spoon.

http://www.coromega.com/index3.html

Dee Dee

Omelet wrote:

> In article
om>,
> Gregory Morrow > wrote:
>
> > Omelet wrote:
>
> > > In article >,
>
> > > "jmcquown" > wrote:
> > > > > Actually the original thread was survival abilities of the mass
> > > > > population after a Nuclear Holocaust... ;-)
>
> > > > > The ability to hunt and gather to survive.
>
> > > > > It was on topic as it involved finding and preparing your own food.
>
> > > > > I submitted that 75% of city populations would starve to death as they
> > > > > some of them don't even know that food is grown in dirt, and meat
> > > > > comes from live animals.
>
> > > > > They'd not have a clu' what to eat.
>
> > > > It's a totally irrational question. Really, if you think you're going to
> > > > survive a nuclear holocaust on the scale you suggest you might as well
> > > > kill
> > > > yourself NOW. Velveeta might survive (heheh). Cockroaches would
> > > > survive.
> > > > Bees would survive, probably. And beets LOL
>
> > > > As others have suggested, are you going to eat vegetables that are packed
> > > > with radiation? Animals that you killed saturated with radiation
> > > > poisoning
> > > > (much as you would already be yourself)? Heh. I don't think so. I
> > > > don't
> > > > think you'd live that long to care in the scenario you propose.
>
> > > > Perhaps what you meant to say was "could you live off the land in the
> > > > style
> > > > of 1800", which has been documented on several PBS series, quite nicely.
> > > > But not after a friggin nuclear holocaust such as you describe. That's a
> > > > totally irrational question.
>
> > > > Jill
>
> > > I'm not a pessimist, and am far enough away from proposed ground zeros
> > > to at least have a chance. ;-)
>
> > During the Cold War days San Antonio was a major Soviet target because
> > of it's extensive military bases/facilities...if the blast pattern
> > were large enough you'd hear it where you live by Austin.
>
> > --
> > Best
> > Greg
>
> Yeah. It'd depend on the megatonnage used.
> My survival might be a moot point if I'm ashes at the outset.
>
> But I'd be beyond caring and so would my family and pets. ;-)
>
> I'm a bit over 40 miles from San Antonio.
> But the bases are on this side of the city. (North)


You might like the book _War Day_, about a post - nuclear war US.
Here is the Wiki article with my comments [GM:...] interspersed.
Texas features heavily in this book. It's available cheep on the
various book sites:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warday


"Warday is a novel by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka, first
published in 1984. It is a fictionalized account of two reporters
traveling across America after a limited nuclear attack in order to
research how the nation had changed after the war. The novel takes the
form of a documentary of sorts, and is written in first-person
narrative form. The novel includes fictionalized government documents
and interviews with individuals to further explain the aftermath of
the war.

Contents:
1 Plot summary
2 Differences from other post-nuclear holocaust novels



Plot summary:

The novel opens with Strieber's account of a nuclear attack on New
York City in the fall of 1988. He is traveling in a bus when he is
blinded by a flash of light. The series of warheads detonated with a
combined force of 20 megatons of TNT. The explosion rips through the
city, igniting Brooklyn. Another series of warheads are detonated at
sea, creating tidal waves that flood the subways with
seawater.

[GM: Manhattan itself is not hit, Brooklyn and Queens and LI get the
missiles. NYC has to be eventually abandoned, not only because of
radiation, but because of massive chemical toxins released and the
total collapse of the water system. NYC is a "Dead Zone" and a small
military contingent of several thousand is the only population. The
Army undertakes a massive salvage operation to rescue valuable
artworks, bank vaults, usable materiel, etc. Surviving New Yorkers
are refugeed to OH, PA. All of southern New Jersey is abandoned
because of the fallout from the DC bombs...the huge firestorm from the
DC blast pattern obliterates Baltimore, etc...Philadelphia is
temporarily abandoned but then after an interval is declared safe...]

Making his way through the wreckage, Strieber reaches his son's
school, where he meets with his wife and son. The family stays in the
school for two weeks, suffering from radiation sickness. Eventually,
when it is safe to escape, Strieber leaves the city with his family.

[GM: Streiber's family is attempting to get to San Antonio, where his
family lives. "After two hard weeks of travelling" they are in
Arkansas and find out that San Antonio has been obliterated. Later,
in his journalistic capacity, he takes a US military overflight of the
San Antonio "Dead Zone" to observe it. His military escort says, "You
should see this by moonlight, it's positively eerie...over by Kelly
AFB you can see the outlines of 25 vaporized B- 52's that were sitting
on the ground...San Antonio is not going to be cleared...there is no
need..."]

As revealed in an interview with a former Undersecretary of Defense,
in the months before the nuclear attack, the United States was on the
verge of developing an advanced anti-ballistic missile system known as
"Spiderweb." The system threatened to render almost any Soviet nuclear
attack inoperable, utilizing a particle beam to destroy warheads as
they left their delivery vehicles. (A recent example of this concept
is that of the "Star Wars" project proposed by the Reagan
administration. More precisely, this program was correctly known as
the Strategic Defense Initiative, or SDI.) During initial deployment
of Spiderweb by the Space Shuttle Enterprise, the Soviets destroy the
Shuttle and its cargo using a hunter-killer satellite. The conflict
escalates rapidly from this point, beginning with the Soviets
detonating a set of four large nuclear warheads in a pattern 100,000
feet above the US, causing a massive electromagnetic pulse that
cripples computers, electronics, and car ignitions across the country.
Immediately after, NORAD detects a series of Soviet satellites
deploying warheads. Faced with this, the President (who is aboard
NEACP) orders a limited strike on the USSR, which would eliminate
Moscow, Leningrad, and the administrative capitals of the Soviet
Republics, thereby destroying the Soviet government. In thirty-six
minutes, the war is over, and only the United States of America and
the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics are directly affected by the
blasts.

[GM: The Reagan - like President dies when his Airborne Command 747
crash lands on the beach at Kitty Hawk, it's disabled by EMP.
Likewise, the VP dies over Maryland when his helicopter is downed by
EMP...]

In the novel, the cities of Washington DC, New York City, and San
Antonio are razed by the nuclear attack. In addition, ICBM missile
fields in North Dakota are vaporized as well, although Omaha comes out
of the conflict unscathed despite public knowledge that the Soviets
had - circa 1982 - over two dozen warheads targeted for the area's
military command & control centers. The attack is therefore considered
"limited" because only the administrative and critical military
centers are destroyed, excluding the majority of other American
cities. However, the nation suffers nevertheless. The dusting of the
Midwest and Central Plains by radioactive materials causes a famine
that kills millions of
people.

[GM: Grain is still planted in the Midwest, but many farms are
abandoned. This huge amount of fallow land causes enormous dust
storms, dwarfing those of the Dust Bowl 30's. Because of this,
trading on the Chicago commodities exchange is frenetic. The authors
see a huge Nabisco plant outside of Chicago, with a sign reading
"Nabisco Feeds America". The main product is high - protein
crackers. "Oreos?", ask the authors, "Soon to be available on a very
limited basis", answers a company executive. International Harvester
is starting up again, initially they went out and reclaimed abandoned
farm equipment Micro - farming is not just a hobby, it's now a
necessity. Most everybody if they can has a garden and a few
chickens. During the worst days of the famine, the government
"allocation" distributed "the infamous oat bread", greens, a rare
piece of fatback, and the like. Cans of Spam were going for $30.00 if
you could find them. A Canadian they meet on the train from Chicago
to Detroit complains about the soy burgers served aboard, and also
about the intestinal malady known as "The Uncle Sam Two - Step".
Canada has sealed it's border with the US ("that refugee situation
with the North and South Dakotans got rather ugly, so we think our new
visa system is best") and is recovering with heavy British
assistance...]

Also, less than a year after the war, a new strain of influenza known
as the Cincinnati Flu quickly reaches epidemic levels, taking
additional millions of lives throughout the United States. Even after
these catastrophes, a constant danger of radiation is present even for
those far away from the blasts, as well as a new disease called Non-
Specific Sclerosing Disease, or NSD.

As well as the human cost, the war left its mark on the economy and
politics of the country. Due to electromagnetic pulses from the bomb
blasts, virtually all bank accounts, transactions, and other
electronic assets simply vanish. Because of this, money undergoes a
rapid deflation: the cost of a home is reduced to 800 gold
dollars.

[GM: The US has a new currency system, "paper" dollars, which are used
for ordinary daily transactions, and "gold" dollars, backed by the
gold in the new Federal Reserve Bank in Atlanta. One gold dollar = 30
paper dollars, but gold dollars are hard to get. To buy certain
things, e.g.imported electronics (now the ONLY kind, because the EMP
has rendered US electronic manufacturing moot), imported Japanese and
European cars, property in California, etc. gold is required. With
paper you can buy a badly - made Detroit car (Ford Americar, Chevy
Consensus..Detroit is now operating at 25% capacity) for $3,000.00 -
now a year's wages...gas is 10 cents per gallon.]

In addition, electronic machinery and devices are rendered useless,
which further limits the economy. Since the federal government was
critically reduced due to the bombing, individual states like
California and Texas form de facto independent nations, with
autonomous military forces and currency. Also, a new Hispanic/Native
American nation named Aztlán is brought into existence through a
violent revolution and, apparent, ethnic cleansing of the Anglo
population of El Paso, far western Texas and southeastern New Mexico.
Aztlán is a socialist nation despite hints in the novel that
geopolitics as a whole has abandoned the concept, considered the cause
of the War.

[GM: Texas and Aztlan DON'T like each other. After the war, Hispanics
and Indians ran the Anglos out of their areas - or just killed them.
The Governor of Texas tells Streiber, "We've got to put that Aztlan
thing straight, and we are arming ourselves for conflict. If we
don't, they'll be in Austin before you know it...". Mexico is a
cesspool of suffering, with no functioning government and no economy
to speak of.]

Culturally, the United States undergoes several radical changes. For
one, the Catholic and Episcopal churches reunite in a spirit of
reconciliation after the disaster, and assisted suicide in the face of
painful terminal illness is accepted and sanctioned by religious
leaders including the current Holy See. In addition, new factions
emerge, such as witch healers and the Destructuralists, who push for a
complete dismantling of any form of civic authority. In addition to
this, foreign companies and nations see America as a ripe market to
sell electronics, machinery, and investments. Some who are interviewed
see this as an attempt by foreign powers to keep the United States a
Third World nation, with a dependency on them. It is revealed early on
that the United States has become very dependent on the UK and Japan
for aid and support. In the world of the book the British Relief, an
aid organization that has backing from British military units
stationed in the US has a major role in governing the country even to
the point of occupying some
areas.

[GM: The British Relief effectively runs the US health care system.
In a Christmas 1988 address, Queen Elizabeth calls on volunteers to go
to the devastated US, citing, "We can't forget what America has done
for us in time of trouble...". Medical care is triaged: anyone with
a high radiation dose is refused medical care, except for aspirin to
relieve pain; armed guards stand sentry at hospitals. There is a
black market in antibiotics, pain meds, etc. Herbalists try to fill
some of the void. Pregnant women are sonogrammed - if there is
evidence of severe birth defects abortion is mandatory. Children
under the age of 10 with the weird new "NSD" disease have to undergo
mandatory euthanasia...]

..
In the section set in Aztlan there allusions to a major Japanese
military presence there which would be the main reason that Texas had
been prevented from reasserting control there. There are also several
mentions of worry that Japan and the UK will enter into a Cold War.
Another anectdote in the book about how far the US has fallen is when
its casually mentioned that the US had sold Alaska to the Canadians.
It is also alluded to that, with the exception of Japan and Western
Europe, and perhaps other first world nations, the rest of the world
has fared very badly with the sundering of the global economy by the
war. It is also mentioned that the USSR had been far more badly
damaged than the US.

[GM: Interestingly, Western Europe has escaped damage. At the start
of the war, European national troops entered NATO bases and
effectively disarmed them, then declared neutrality. This is the
result of the secret "Treaty of Coventry" that would go into effect in
case of a war between the two superpowers. Thus Europe saved itself,
and is now thriving, Britain especially...it and Japan are now the two
superpowers. It's a goal of some Americans to try to apply for
"refugee" status in Europe.]

A major portion of the book deals with the behavior of California and
the other Pacific Coast states which escaped the war unscathed and
which seal themselves off to refugees from the rest of the US. Those
who succeed in entering California are treated very harshly as
"illegal immigrants," in some ways reminiscent of the way California
dealt with migrants during the Dust Bowl.

[GM: California, Oregon, and Washington are relatively free of
disease, famine, and radiation ;only the EMP affected them. With
heavy Japanese assistance they are starting to recover, even thrive.
These states have a bountiful agricultural base, and are again
starting to export to the rest of the US and the world. In Seattle,
Boeing is even getting ready to produce it's new "800" series of
jetliners. Hollywood is producing movies, Ted Turner and NBC are
going to re - launch the NBC television network ("all re - runs at
first"; the Governor of Texas notes that "we know have a million TV
sets in Texas. The Hunt brothers who started up the Texas Network
must have bought up every John Wayne movie ever made, because that's
mainly what's on...") via a new satellite launched from Vandenberg AFB
in CA. A new Japanese maglev train will connect San Diego and San
Francisco in two hour's time..LA now has 10 radio stations. The
authors marvel at the California food, gorging on sushi in Little
Tokyo in LA, shrimp cocktail and broiled lambchops on their Coast
Starlight train trip from LA to SF, eating at Kan's in San Francisco.
They realize, "It's no wonder the Pacific states have such draconian
border controls, otherwise they'd be jammed with the entire population
of the old United States - it's like the old fat and prosperous US,
before the war" OH, Hawaii is unscathed, but protein is in short
supply. Also, the Hawaiians are ****ED because all of their TV
stations were dismantled and sent to the mainland US for use
there... ]

The book's two protagonists, who smuggle themselves from ravaged Texas
into California, are caught and narrowly escape spending long prison
terms on charges of illegal entry, their journalistic credentials
notwithstanding. Although actually published in 1984, the novel
purports to be a journalistic account written in 1993, five years
after the war, which takes place in late October, 1988. The novel
contains a fictional copyright page bearing the date 1993.

[GM: the authors (who live in Dallas) travel by bus, foot, and train
("A call to Amtrak in Dallas confirmed that the system is greatly
expanded since the war..."). Car travel is difficult and fraught with
danger, there are vigilantes and numerous military checkpoints. Air
travel is very limited, basically only available to "necessary
personnel", a "civilian" has to wait many months for a possible
reservation. The skeletal air system exists only because of the
return of US airliners that were abroad when war broke out. That damn
EMP disabled the rest of 'em here...]


Differences from other post-nuclear holocaust novels:

As opposed to the majority of other novels dealing with the aftermath
of nuclear wars, Warday does not presume that civilization will fall
in the event of such an attack, or even that local and national
governments will fail. Indeed, the authors make a point of postulating
a "limited" nuclear attack, in which only "key military and
infrastructure" targets would be destroyed (as opposed to total
destruction of all major cities). Even after such a relatively mild
blow, the United States' economy, political structure, and society is
changed irrevocably by the attacks.

The novel was hailed by Senators Edward Kennedy and Mark Hatfield as
being a remarkably accurate and realistic depiction of a nuclear war's
aftermath, although some have said that the book is much too
pessimistic about the ability of the United States to recover from
such an attack. By contrast, in light of the events of September 11th,
2001 and the brief disruptions of the US financial and stock trading
systems, Warday may (or may not) be seen as an accurate predictor of
how the US economy would be severely crippled by even a single nuclear
detonation on New York City or even Washington DC.

The pattern of the nuclear exchange postulated in the book seems
remarkably similar to that appearing in Robert A. Heinlein's 1957
novel The Door into Summer. In that book, too, Washington D.C., New
York and a few other locations are destroyed but most of the country
avoids being bombed and refugees stream into California which remained
intact. Warday also differs from The Door Into Summer in the focus of
the plot. In Heinlein's book the war leaves no severe lasting effects:
the country quickly recovers, the refugees find a ready welcome in
California which has no difficulty in absorbing them, and there is no
mention of any lasting medical problems from radiation. In fact, after
the first few pages the nuclear war recedes completely into the
background, with the plot turning to the protagonist's tangled love
life and the conspiracy of his crooked partner to steal his
inventions. By contrast, the effects of the war are perpetually felt
throughout Warday, and while the interpersonal sub-plots exist, they
take a back seat to just how the war has affected the American Way of
Life from as many aspects as possible within the confinements of a
reasonable-sized novel.

Implicitly, Heinlein - an outspoken Cold War hawk - seemed to imply
that such a "limited" exchange would be an acceptable price for
getting rid of Communism once and for all. The writers of Warday may
have consciously borrowed Heinlein's basic scenario in order to show
how horrible the results could be. In fact, Kunetka has gone on record
that Heinlein's novel was something of an inspiration for how he and
Streiber wanted to do Warday, but both he and Streiber have also
stressed that the real inspiration for the tone of the book came from
legendary CBS journalist Charles Kuralt's On The Road series of
features he produced and narrated for the network."

</>

jmcquown wrote:
> Omelet wrote:
>> In article >,
>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>>
>>>> Get used to modern slang. It's far more fun!
>>> No. It's lame. There may be children watching. Children learn by
>>> example. Your writing contains things children should not see. They
>>> need to be employable in the future. If you cannot read, write and
>>> speak well, you are as valuable to an employer as a melted ice cream
>>> cone on the sidewalk.
>> Good. Let's see you go after "Krispy Kream" donuts and "Kwik wash"
>> laundromats.
>>
>> Must suck to be so anal.
>>
>> I used to be too. I'm a far happier person now that I got over it. ;-)
>
> Sorry, but I have to agree with him on this one. I've mentioned before the
> text message mentality and kiddy email mentality should NOT carry over to
> the workplace. No one I know in the business world wants to get an email
> that says "kewl". (Not that any business email should say "cool" unless
> they are referring to the air conditioning system.) I'd prefer anyone who
> claims to be a business professional to know how to spell things and that
> doesn't include "How R U?" and "Kewl". We aren't teaching the next
> generation anything in the way of speaking (whatever their native language
> is) by encouraging this crappy text-messaging lingo to go forward into their
> professional lives. Try writing "kewl" into a legal brief. Or a mortgage
> contract. Or your tax return. Sorry, it won't fly.
>
> Jill
>
>

Nice try trying to sound so...employable! Get off the sauce and you
might succeed.

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "jmcquown" > wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> "jmcquown" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Where do you suppose is the nearest ground zero from where you
>>>>>> live, and what is the name of that place?
>>>>>
>>>>> Austin capitol, 35 miles.
>>>>> Possibly the military base in San Antonio which is even farther.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a chance of nuclear fallout but that would be world wide.
>>>>>
>>>>> You'd go ahead and take your cyanide pills.
>>>>> I'd take my chances. I know most of the local edible fauna and can
>>>>> trap, shoot and dress out wild game.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know dozens that would not have any idea how to do that.
>>>>
>>>> Have you never heard of nuclear winter? You wouldn't be able to
>>>> grow a damn thing for years. After the fallout (which is bad
>>>> enough) it's supposed to freeze over like an ice age. Guess that's
>>>> a Biblical prediction (don't get me started). You'd better start
>>>> canning and preserving now to have enough to eat when Hell freezes
>>>> over.
>>>>
>>> Would you lament if the human race was wiped off of the earth?
>>
>> In that event I wouldn't be here so I no, I wouldn't care. But
>> that's not the point. The point is you're asking about farming in
>> the aftermath of a nuclear holocaust. You wouldn't be here unless
>> you were living in a bunker. So what's the point of your question???
>
> Did I mention farming?
>
> Not once. ;-)
>
> I was referring to understanding that food came from plants that grew
> in the dirt

Dirt + vegetables = farming

and animals that ran or flew around with feathers, fur,
> scales or slimy skin (in the case of frogs).
>
Frogs aside, yes, we all know animals run or fly around

> So, what percentage of modern, city dwelling humans understand and
> could deal with that?

I could. Would I want to, no. Could I? Yes. Ever watch the Colonial
House series put out by PBS? Or the 1900 house (by then they actually had
green grocers and butchers to shop from). Frontier House, they weren't so
lucky... they had to make everything from scratch, kill the chickens,
butcher the hog, raise goats... It can be done. I wouldn't want to but I
father still talks about picking dandylion greens for his mother to make
soup and digging up potatoes. And plucking chickens on the back porch after
chopping off their heads. (That was for a stewed chicken Sunday dinner.)

I still don't understand your nuclear holocaust reference at all. That
would radically change everything. I wouldn't eat anything that came out of
a nuclear holocaust unless I had canned food set aside (as well as water).

Jill

"Dan" <intrceptor@gmaildotcom> wrote in message
.. .
> jmcquown wrote:
>> Omelet wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Get used to modern slang. It's far more fun!
>>>> No. It's lame. There may be children watching. Children learn by
>>>> example. Your writing contains things children should not see. They
>>>> need to be employable in the future. If you cannot read, write and
>>>> speak well, you are as valuable to an employer as a melted ice cream
>>>> cone on the sidewalk.
>>> Good. Let's see you go after "Krispy Kream" donuts and "Kwik wash"
>>> laundromats.
>>>
>>> Must suck to be so anal.
>>>
>>> I used to be too. I'm a far happier person now that I got over it. ;-)
>>
>> Sorry, but I have to agree with him on this one. I've mentioned before
>> the
>> text message mentality and kiddy email mentality should NOT carry over to
>> the workplace. No one I know in the business world wants to get an email
>> that says "kewl". (Not that any business email should say "cool" unless
>> they are referring to the air conditioning system.) I'd prefer anyone
>> who
>> claims to be a business professional to know how to spell things and that
>> doesn't include "How R U?" and "Kewl". We aren't teaching the next
>> generation anything in the way of speaking (whatever their native
>> language
>> is) by encouraging this crappy text-messaging lingo to go forward into
>> their
>> professional lives. Try writing "kewl" into a legal brief. Or a
>> mortgage
>> contract. Or your tax return. Sorry, it won't fly.
>>
>> Jill
>>
>>
>
> Nice try trying to sound so...employable! Get off the sauce and you might
> succeed.

pot...kettle...black...

"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Paco's Tacos" > wrote in message
> news:%hsBi.1412$9T5.213@trndny02...
>>
>>>> > I can tell you that nobody in the Northeast even knows what Rotel is,
>>>> > so
>>>> > no, they don't make that crap everywhere.
>>>>
>>>> I live in the Northeast,
>>>
>>> The shame.
>>
>> That's right, Shelly-belly! We're practically neighbors! Would you like
>> to come up for some Velveety sammiches? Heck, we could even put some of
>> that gubbermint cheese on the sammiches just for you!
>>>
>>>> and I know what Ro-Tel is.
>>>> That said, I've never purchased any Ro-Tel products.
>>>
>>> What makes you think anyone cares.
>>
>> Apparently you do, Shels. Otherwise, why would you invest the time and
>> consideration to comment? Admit it Sheldon, you have Paco-envy! You
>> only replied to this post because you were looking for attention from me.
>> Don't worry little buddy, you're in my sights!
>>>
>>>>Can't say if I ever purchased Velveeta, either.
>>>
>>> You can't say because you're too embarrassed. By your response it's
>>> obvious you live on Velveeta, it's the only cheese you eat.
>>
>> Yes, quite obvious.
>>>
>>> And your comma after Velveeta is a slip of the finger, eh? The one
>>> after "That said," too? Couldn't be because you're a dumb ****.
>>
>> That's the best you got? Punctuation discrepencies? Yeah. Okay.
>> Window licker.
>>>
>
>
> lol
>
;-)

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
...
>
>>>>> And your comma after Velveeta is a slip of the finger, eh? The one
>>>> after "That said," too? Couldn't be because you're a dumb ****.
>>>
>>> That's the best you got? Punctuation discrepencies? Yeah. Okay.
>>> Window licker.
>
> In my head, visions of what a 'window licker' is -- I won't ask, but this
> definitely must be a 'guy thing.'
> Dee Dee
>
>
>
>

No, don't read into, Dee. It's just a comment on his arrested and limited
mental capabilities. The whole "village idiot" thing, ya know?!

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
news
>> Yes, I believe that any stores around here that do carry Ro-Tel products
>> order
>> them by the single case, not by the pallet loads that may be ordered by
>> stores in other regions. But Velveeta is everywhere!
>>
>
> Most individual stores order things by the individual case, not by the
> pallet, unless there's a promotion going on, or it's a "fat" item like
> paper products. The store's warehouse will order pallet quantities, or at
> least partial pallets. But, it's rare for any chain to order just a case
> or two of anything.
>
> Health & beauty care items are, as a category, a complete exception.
>

That comment was just a comparison of how much a product such as Ro-Tel a
store would order here in the Northeast, as compared to a store, in say, the
deep South. Did that really have to be explained to you, or were you having
a "Sheldon moment"?