"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
> Dee Dee wrote:
>
>> DH was in the hospital 'for' a staph infection - a bite on his elbow
>> that got infected. His doctor was excellent. After two hours, I
>> could see that the nurses were very negligent; slopping IV all over
>> the floor, giving shots and letting them fall on the floor,
>> disallowing him clean footsies, treating him with disrespect.
>
> Well I can't say I was treated with disrespect but I was in a private
> hospital and they don't dare!
>


All things considered, not caring is a form of disrespect.

Yesterday I had a dilemna regarding some calves I saw. I have been so
distressed over it. Their ribs were showing. Their hips at the joint were
sticking out. They appeared to me to be distressed as well. I can't get
it out of my mind.

Poor little things.
Dee Dee

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 17:34:00 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> >It's not all perfect here either but Charity Care exists. Actually,
>> >those that qualify for such are often luckier than those with middle
>> >class incomes. We get wiped out, they get cared for for free.
>> >
>> some form of universal health insurance would take care of that.
>>
>> >Why do you think so many are bitching about the illegal alien thing?
>> >They don't pay into the system and get free health care as they have no
>> >way of paying, but we are not allowed to ignore them and let them die.
>> >
>> i would like to see stats on this. it sounds like another right-wing
>> talking points. free emergency-room care, maybe, but non-citizens, as
>> far as i know, are not qualified for medicare or medicaid. it is a
>> justification for anti-immigrant bias. don't forget that all those
>> people working with a fake social security number never collect
>> benefits.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>Don't make me go there Blake. (ok, hypocritical since I mentioned it, so
>forget it!)
>
>Let's just say I work there and see it every day...
>
>Americans, as a general rule, don't leave women in labor in a ditch to
>die.
>
>No matter what their race.

emergency rooms are forced by law to provide care. i don't know who
else is.

with all due respect, a worker on a general motors assembly line
doesn't necessarily know how to cure the ills of the automobile
industry.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 22:27:21 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
wrote:

>
>"blake murphy" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:21:53 -0500, Omelet >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 14:17:29 -0500, Omelet >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >In article >,
>>>> > Peter A > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> In article >, Goomba38
>>>> >> @comcast.net says...
>>>> >> > But the truth is is that not *everyone* there really "gets the
>>>> >> > service"
>>>> >> > they want. There is rationing, and exclusions based on age and
>>>> >> > other
>>>> >> > factors that we don't subscribe to but these are often not
>>>> >> > mentioned in
>>>> >> > the argument for nationalized health care. There are limitations on
>>>> >> > which doctors one can use or see. It is a different system, but not
>>>> >> > necessarily a better one. They each have their points but no
>>>> >> > country has
>>>> >> > managed to combine the best of each into one program.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The US spends a lot more, per capita, on health care than any other
>>>> >> country. The last stats I saw, a few years ago, had the US spending
>>>> >> about 40% more per capita than Canada. When you compare waiting times
>>>> >> and similar measures, you must take this into account. When the US
>>>> >> system comes out as "superior" it's not necessarily because our free
>>>> >> market health care is inherently better that the "socialized" systems
>>>> >> of
>>>> >> other countries - it's simply because we pour a lot more money into
>>>> >> health care. If Canadians decided to spend 40% more on health care,
>>>> >> their socialized system would likely be better than ours.
>>>> >
>>>> >Being forced to wait 6 months for breast cancer surgery can be a death
>>>> >sentence.
>>>> >
>>>> >"Free" is not always better.
>>>>
>>>> please give examples of a country with a six-month waiting list for
>>>> breast cancer surgery. (other than the u.s. if you have no
>>>> insurance.)
>>>>
>>>> your pal,
>>>> blake
>>>
>>>I have no specific quotes, but I have Internet friends in England that
>>>have told me of such.
>>>
>>>And long waiting lists for needed surgeries in Canada.
>>>You also rarely get to pick your own doctor. You may not even have the
>>>same one twice in a row. (or so I have been told)
>>>
>>>I'm glad that you have had nothing but good experiences, but abuse of
>>>the health care system is occurring in some areas according to others
>>>(anecdotal complaints, sorry) so it's apparently not all coming up roses?
>>>
>>>I don't live there so I have no personal experience. Just several years
>>>on the web and lots of gripes.
>>>
>>>It's not all perfect here either but Charity Care exists. Actually,
>>>those that qualify for such are often luckier than those with middle
>>>class incomes. We get wiped out, they get cared for for free.
>>>
>> some form of universal health insurance would take care of that.
>>
>>>Why do you think so many are bitching about the illegal alien thing?
>>>They don't pay into the system and get free health care as they have no
>>>way of paying, but we are not allowed to ignore them and let them die.
>>>
>> i would like to see stats on this. it sounds like another right-wing
>> talking points. free emergency-room care, maybe, but non-citizens, as
>> far as i know, are not qualified for medicare or medicaid. it is a
>> justification for anti-immigrant bias. don't forget that all those
>> people working with a fake social security number never collect
>> benefits.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>>
>
>Is that you again, Blake fixated on your right-wing talking points
>accusation. Not everyone is as right wing or radical left as you think they
>are just because they have a different opinion than you. Why put everyone
>in a box, has anyone accused you of having radical left talking points, I
>think not.
>
speaking in right-wing talking points doesn't necessary make you a
right-winger. after all, they are cheerfully spread by the 'liberal'
media. i just call upon people to back them with facts, and they
usually cannot.

and yes, people have called me a left-wing radical. i will admit,
proudly, to being a liberal.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 17:34:48 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 21:47:24 +0100, "Ophelia" > wrote:
>>
>> >Omelet wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have no specific quotes, but I have Internet friends in England that
>> >> have told me of such.
>> >
>> >we have very long waiting lists for the NHS. It is at its best for
>> >emergency or trauma.
>> >
>> >We pay for BUPA and I have made very good use of it over the past few years.
>> >I have had both knees replaced and implants into both eyes. If I had to
>> >wait for the NHS I would be blind and in a wheelchair now
>> >
>> it's another right-wing myth that one will be forced to use government
>> services. if you have the money, you can bypass the system under
>> almost any universal care program.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>I love that qualifier.
>
>"If you have the money".
>
>Thanks for that.

and now, if you don't have the money for insurance, you are completely
shit out of luck. this is better? or maybe you have the money and a
pre-existing condition? too bad, so sad.

your pal,
blake

Dee Dee wrote:
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dee Dee wrote:
>>
>>> DH was in the hospital 'for' a staph infection - a bite on his elbow
>>> that got infected. His doctor was excellent. After two hours, I
>>> could see that the nurses were very negligent; slopping IV all over
>>> the floor, giving shots and letting them fall on the floor,
>>> disallowing him clean footsies, treating him with disrespect.
>>
>> Well I can't say I was treated with disrespect but I was in a private
>> hospital and they don't dare!
>>
>
>
> All things considered, not caring is a form of disrespect.
>
> Yesterday I had a dilemna regarding some calves I saw. I have been so
> distressed over it. Their ribs were showing. Their hips at the joint
> were sticking out. They appeared to me to be distressed as well. I
> can't get it out of my mind.

do you not have an animal welfare you could report them to?

blake murphy wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 22:27:21 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:21:53 -0500, Omelet >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article >,
>>>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 14:17:29 -0500, Omelet >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>> Peter A > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>>> Goomba38 @comcast.net says...
>>>>>>>> But the truth is is that not *everyone* there really "gets the
>>>>>>>> service"
>>>>>>>> they want. There is rationing, and exclusions based on age and
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> factors that we don't subscribe to but these are often not
>>>>>>>> mentioned in
>>>>>>>> the argument for nationalized health care. There are
>>>>>>>> limitations on which doctors one can use or see. It is a
>>>>>>>> different system, but not necessarily a better one. They each
>>>>>>>> have their points but no country has
>>>>>>>> managed to combine the best of each into one program.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The US spends a lot more, per capita, on health care than any
>>>>>>> other country. The last stats I saw, a few years ago, had the
>>>>>>> US spending about 40% more per capita than Canada. When you
>>>>>>> compare waiting times and similar measures, you must take this
>>>>>>> into account. When the US system comes out as "superior" it's
>>>>>>> not necessarily because our free market health care is
>>>>>>> inherently better that the "socialized" systems of
>>>>>>> other countries - it's simply because we pour a lot more money
>>>>>>> into health care. If Canadians decided to spend 40% more on
>>>>>>> health care, their socialized system would likely be better
>>>>>>> than ours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being forced to wait 6 months for breast cancer surgery can be a
>>>>>> death sentence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Free" is not always better.
>>>>>
>>>>> please give examples of a country with a six-month waiting list
>>>>> for breast cancer surgery. (other than the u.s. if you have no
>>>>> insurance.)
>>>>>
>>>>> your pal,
>>>>> blake
>>>>
>>>> I have no specific quotes, but I have Internet friends in England
>>>> that have told me of such.
>>>>
>>>> And long waiting lists for needed surgeries in Canada.
>>>> You also rarely get to pick your own doctor. You may not even have
>>>> the same one twice in a row. (or so I have been told)
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad that you have had nothing but good experiences, but abuse
>>>> of the health care system is occurring in some areas according to
>>>> others (anecdotal complaints, sorry) so it's apparently not all
>>>> coming up roses?
>>>>
>>>> I don't live there so I have no personal experience. Just several
>>>> years on the web and lots of gripes.
>>>>
>>>> It's not all perfect here either but Charity Care exists. Actually,
>>>> those that qualify for such are often luckier than those with
>>>> middle class incomes. We get wiped out, they get cared for for
>>>> free.
>>>>
>>> some form of universal health insurance would take care of that.
>>>
>>>> Why do you think so many are bitching about the illegal alien
>>>> thing? They don't pay into the system and get free health care as
>>>> they have no way of paying, but we are not allowed to ignore them
>>>> and let them die.
>>>>
>>> i would like to see stats on this. it sounds like another
>>> right-wing talking points. free emergency-room care, maybe, but
>>> non-citizens, as far as i know, are not qualified for medicare or
>>> medicaid. it is a justification for anti-immigrant bias. don't
>>> forget that all those people working with a fake social security
>>> number never collect benefits.
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>>>
>>
>> Is that you again, Blake fixated on your right-wing talking points
>> accusation. Not everyone is as right wing or radical left as you
>> think they are just because they have a different opinion than you.
>> Why put everyone in a box, has anyone accused you of having radical
>> left talking points, I think not.
>>
> speaking in right-wing talking points doesn't necessary make you a
> right-winger. after all, they are cheerfully spread by the 'liberal'
> media. i just call upon people to back them with facts, and they
> usually cannot.
>
> and yes, people have called me a left-wing radical. i will admit,
> proudly, to being a liberal.

Dee Dee, Blake and Omlet, please explain to me what is going on here???

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> >Don't make me go there Blake. (ok, hypocritical since I mentioned it, so
> >forget it!)
> >
> >Let's just say I work there and see it every day...
> >
> >Americans, as a general rule, don't leave women in labor in a ditch to
> >die.
> >
> >No matter what their race.
>
> Emergency rooms are forced by law to provide care. i don't know who
> else is.
>
> with all due respect, a worker on a general motors assembly line
> doesn't necessarily know how to cure the ills of the automobile
> industry.
>
> your pal,
> blake

But do the workers on the assembly line have regular meetings that talk
about the teamwork and financial issues of the entire organization?

Believe it or not, we do.

Annually.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> >I love that qualifier.
> >
> >"If you have the money".
> >
> >Thanks for that.
>
> and now, if you don't have the money for insurance, you are completely
> shit out of luck. this is better? or maybe you have the money and a
> pre-existing condition? too bad, so sad.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Not so. ;-)

There are plenty of charity care programs available.

One of my best friends has HIV. I was with her when she was diagnosed.
She was so broke at the time, she was sleeping on my couch and using my
PO box until she was able to find a stable job and get back on her feet.

The state paid for all of her treatments and meds. The nice thing about
that was that she got the newer, "experimental" meds so actually has
done better. She is at the 15 year mark now and still going strong.

Kili lives in Florida. She can also vouch for being able to get the care
she needed for cancer treatment and could not afford.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> and now, if you don't have the money for insurance, you are completely
> shit out of luck. this is better? or maybe you have the money and a
> pre-existing condition? too bad, so sad.
>
> your pal,
> blake
>

When the insurance company tripled our rates per year and when medicare
started taking out money for my medicare even though I already had
insurance, I guess I could've said that we don't have money for insurance.
This is the route that a lot of people take -- do they ever cancel their TV
cable/dish/directTV, do they cut down on their Starbucks --

But I do know there are people who just can't afford at all to buy any
insurance at all; those that are on some kind of welfare and can check into
the ER at any time for their health care.

Then there are the ones in between, who are working their butts off and
still can't pull it together for money for insurance, and are paying taxes
for the others. Now this doesn't make me happy.

Then there is the very poor, whom I can tell that they are because someone
has put a tattoo down their butt for free I guess, they are smokin' and
missing and rotten teeth. They probably wouldn't know how to check into an
ER or how to sign up for assistance.

Then there is the unfortunate. These are the ones I wouldn't mind having
some sort of health care. How you gonna do it? Sign everyone up?

Dee Dee

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
> Dee Dee wrote:
>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Dee Dee wrote:
>>>
>>>> DH was in the hospital 'for' a staph infection - a bite on his elbow
>>>> that got infected. His doctor was excellent. After two hours, I
>>>> could see that the nurses were very negligent; slopping IV all over
>>>> the floor, giving shots and letting them fall on the floor,
>>>> disallowing him clean footsies, treating him with disrespect.
>>>
>>> Well I can't say I was treated with disrespect but I was in a private
>>> hospital and they don't dare!
>>>
>>
>>
>> All things considered, not caring is a form of disrespect.
>>
>> Yesterday I had a dilemna regarding some calves I saw. I have been so
>> distressed over it. Their ribs were showing. Their hips at the joint
>> were sticking out. They appeared to me to be distressed as well. I
>> can't get it out of my mind.
>
> do you not have an animal welfare you could report them to?
I suppose. But I'd have to go to a PAY-telephone to do it. I'm not of like
mind to interfere with others' business. Here in the country, people have a
different mind-set regarding interference. IOW you don't report someone's
dog barking while you're going out of your skull. It's their right.
God-given right.
Dee Dee

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>> speaking in right-wing talking points doesn't necessary make you a
>> right-winger. after all, they are cheerfully spread by the 'liberal'
>> media. i just call upon people to back them with facts, and they
>> usually cannot.
>>
>> and yes, people have called me a left-wing radical. i will admit,
>> proudly, to being a liberal.
>
> Dee Dee, Blake and Omlet, please explain to me what is going on here???

Just chit-chat, I guess.

Dee Dee

In article >, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

> >> Is that you again, Blake fixated on your right-wing talking points
> >> accusation. Not everyone is as right wing or radical left as you
> >> think they are just because they have a different opinion than you.
> >> Why put everyone in a box, has anyone accused you of having radical
> >> left talking points, I think not.
> >>
> > speaking in right-wing talking points doesn't necessary make you a
> > right-winger. after all, they are cheerfully spread by the 'liberal'
> > media. i just call upon people to back them with facts, and they
> > usually cannot.
> >
> > and yes, people have called me a left-wing radical. i will admit,
> > proudly, to being a liberal.
>
> Dee Dee, Blake and Omlet, please explain to me what is going on here???

Um, I quit following this sub-thread as soon as it turned political.

Sorry babe!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Dee Dee" > wrote:

> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Dee Dee wrote:
> >> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> Dee Dee wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> DH was in the hospital 'for' a staph infection - a bite on his elbow
> >>>> that got infected. His doctor was excellent. After two hours, I
> >>>> could see that the nurses were very negligent; slopping IV all over
> >>>> the floor, giving shots and letting them fall on the floor,
> >>>> disallowing him clean footsies, treating him with disrespect.
> >>>
> >>> Well I can't say I was treated with disrespect but I was in a private
> >>> hospital and they don't dare!
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> All things considered, not caring is a form of disrespect.
> >>
> >> Yesterday I had a dilemna regarding some calves I saw. I have been so
> >> distressed over it. Their ribs were showing. Their hips at the joint
> >> were sticking out. They appeared to me to be distressed as well. I
> >> can't get it out of my mind.
> >
> > do you not have an animal welfare you could report them to?
> I suppose. But I'd have to go to a PAY-telephone to do it. I'm not of like
> mind to interfere with others' business. Here in the country, people have a
> different mind-set regarding interference. IOW you don't report someone's
> dog barking while you're going out of your skull. It's their right.
> God-given right.
> Dee Dee

Use the 3S rule.

Shoot the dog.
Shovel a hole in the ground.
Shut up about it.

The poultry list uses that method for chicken killers that run loose.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" > wrote in message newsmp_omelet->

Um, I quit following this sub-thread as soon as it turned political.
>
> Sorry babe!

OK. I just didn't like you all falling out

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> ">> >> Yesterday I had a dilemna regarding some calves I saw. I have been
> so
>> >> distressed over it. Their ribs were showing. Their hips at the joint
>> >> were sticking out. They appeared to me to be distressed as well. I
>> >> can't get it out of my mind.

But what would you do about his Om?

In that case we would report it to the RSPCA and the police and the owner
would be charged!

On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 22:12:00 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
wrote:

>
>>>
>> it's another right-wing myth that one will be forced to use government
>> services. if you have the money, you can bypass the system under
>> almost any universal care program.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>Blake, if anyone disagrees with your politics, religion or whatever, you
>don't seem to know how to listen to anyone. It's like throwing a dog a bone
>and he growls without thinking, parroting the same ole growl.
>
when someone posts something contrary to fact - and it's usually some
republican talking point - i respond to that. i haven't seen anyone
refute my main point, which is the u.s. spends more for health care
(almost twice as much as the some other industrialized countries) for
worse results.

This article, based on data from the Organization for Economic
Cooperation and Development (OECD), shows that at $4,887, U.S. per
capita spending in 2001 was higher than comparable health spending in
all other OECD countries. Switzerland, the second-highest-spending
country, spent only 68 percent as much as the United States on health
care per capita, and Canada, with similar health care delivery systems
and medical practice styles, spent only 57 percent as much. The median
percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) absorbed by health care in
non-U.S. OECD countries in 2001 was only 8.3 percent, compared with
nearly 14 percent in the United States.

<http://healthaffairs.org/press/mayjune0401.htm>

....and not everyone is covered in the u.s., despite the fact we're
spending more.

>I have stated this previously, and you don't care to listen. When one has
>medicare, one HAS to have it and cannot bypass the system. I would rather
>not ever have medicare -- I don't want it. I don't mind paying into it for
>others, but I don't want it for myself. You are right, it isn't good enough
>for me. I carry my own insurance, I want it, I pay for it. I have the
>money to pay for it, and I do without other things because I want it. My
>own insurance went up 300% last year. I kept it. I don't want to have to
>go thru medicare paperwork before my insurance will take care of anything,
>but I goddamned well HAVE TO.
>
>IOW I have the money, and I cannot bypass the system. You don't have a clue
>to what you are talking about.
>Dee Dee
>
then it sounds to me like you have bypassed the medicare system.

with medicare, you can buy additional insurance if you wish, and use
any doctor that accepts medicare. if you have the money to pay the
whole bill, you can use anybody you want.

<http://www.aarp.org/health/medicare/traditional/a2003-04-28-medicarecomparison.html?print=yes>

but this is somewhat beside the point. a universal health care system
does not necessary equal the present medicare or v.a. systems, or even
systems used abroad (though most of them seem to provide better care).
the u.s. could devise a system more to their liking if they cared to.
the people who like the system as it is, because they're making the
money, make it difficult to change by propagating all these tales of
six-months waits for hip replacements in canada, etc., to make people
fear any change that will cost them money.

but this, too, is somewhat beside the point. in the united states a
working citizen can lose his home from the expense of getting sick. i
think we can do better than that. (i don't think even a lazy,
shiftless person like me should lose his home by getting sick, either,
but that's perhaps another discussion.)

i don't recall taking part in any discussions concerning religion,
unless someone wants to mandate his beliefs by legislation.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 17:35:13 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 13:23:44 +1200, Miche > wrote:
>>
>> >In article >, "Ophelia" >
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> Omelet wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I have no specific quotes, but I have Internet friends in England that
>> >> > have told me of such.
>> >>
>> >> we have very long waiting lists for the NHS. It is at its best for
>> >> emergency or trauma.
>> >
>> >We only have long waiting lists for some things in New Zealand -- for
>> >most things the waiting times are bearable if not actually non-existent.
>> >Cancer patients do not wait months for treatment here.
>> >
>> >Also, I can choose my own GP. If I need a specialist referral I'll get
>> >assigned a specialist but if they're not a good fit for me, I can ask to
>> >see someone else. (This has actually happened to me, btw.)
>> >
>> >Miche
>>
>> uh-oh, more facts instead of tales from a friend of a friend. what
>> are you trying to do, muddy the discussion?
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>Must be nice to be rich Blake.

i don't know what you're trying to say here. according to the
government, i am poor. i do have insurance, thank god. but i don't
think that should mean tough tittie for everyone else.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 17:37:56 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> >> there's a middleman in the u.s. that is not dedicated to providing
>> >> health care, but rather dedicated to avoid paying benefits to the
>> >> insured. that's most of the problem.
>> >>
>> >> your pal,
>> >> blake
>> >
>> >You wish.
>> >
>> >It's a bigger, deeper and more complex problem than what you are
>> >proposing.
>>
>> maybe so, but almost all other industrialized countries are handling
>> it better. why stick with what we've got now? other than the fact
>> that the people making money now are pretty happy with it, and are
>> willing to spend some bucks to keep it that way, i see none. the
>> typical consumer of health care is not ecstatic about the whole thing.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>Neither are the providers.
>
>Our hospital just sold out to a larger organization due to the fact that
>a smaller, private facility is no longer able to compete and still
>provide good care to the community.
>
>The operational money has to come from SOMEwhere!

why don't we cut out the private insurance middleman? he is providing
no services - in fact, he is usually spending his efforts on denying
benefits.

being critical of the u.s. health system does not mean i'm knocking
providers.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 17:30:45 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> >It runs much deeper than that. The "cost per capita" is not the real
>> >problem. If only it were that easy.
>>
>> no, but the fact that we spend more per capita for poorer results
>> means our system is not 'the best.' by a long shot.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>I don't believe that _I_ ever said it was?

you seem to have been defending it as opposed to other countries'
systems. what else could that mean?

your pal,
blake

"Dee Dee" > wrote

> I suppose. But I'd have to go to a PAY-telephone to do it. I'm not of
> like mind to interfere with others' business. Here in the country, people
> have a different mind-set regarding interference. IOW you don't report
> someone's dog barking while you're going out of your skull. It's their
> right. God-given right.

They don't have the right to cruelty. Lock up the animals then
deny them food. Perhaps if you emailed the particulars to someone
then they could call the ASPCA about it? Someone who doesn't live
near there?

nancy

In article >,
"Dee Dee" > wrote:

> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Dee Dee wrote:

> >> Yesterday I had a dilemna regarding some calves I saw. I have been so
> >> distressed over it. Their ribs were showing. Their hips at the joint
> >> were sticking out. They appeared to me to be distressed as well. I
> >> can't get it out of my mind.
> >
> > do you not have an animal welfare you could report them to?
> I suppose. But I'd have to go to a PAY-telephone to do it.

Goodness.

> I'm not of like
> mind to interfere with others' business. Here in the country, people have a
> different mind-set regarding interference. IOW you don't report someone's
> dog barking while you're going out of your skull. It's their right.
> God-given right.

Yet it's their god-given right to starve animals? That's just sick.

How can you stand by and watch animals stave because you don't want to
spend (what is it, 25c?) to make a phone call that might save their
lives?

Miche

--
In the monastery office --
Before enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper
After enlightenment: fetch mail, shuffle paper

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
>> In article >,
>> ">> >> Yesterday I had a dilemna regarding some calves I saw. I have been
>> so
>>> >> distressed over it. Their ribs were showing. Their hips at the joint
>>> >> were sticking out. They appeared to me to be distressed as well. I
>>> >> can't get it out of my mind.
>
> But what would you do about his Om?
>
> In that case we would report it to the RSPCA and the police and the owner
> would be charged!
Not here. That might happen if one weren't 'out in the county' - county, as
well as country --

As I said before, someone from the field above shot a deer, in my yard, as
far as I could tell. It was out of season. I couldn't get hold of the
'proper authorities' for days. Then it was, there is nothing we can do
about it; we don't know who it was.

When I first moved here I saw those male critters (hoomans) crossing the
field behind me with their camafloughes (sp?) on, with shotguns in their
outstretched arms. I yelled " what the hell you sonsabitches doing"? As I
did not know the protcol, they could've wanted to aim my way if were
itching. I oft think perhaps they did not hear me. I've heard the shots in
deer season come from two angles toward us. Over a decade I have lived with
a 'station' in a tree a few yards from my property fence. All legal, of
course.

All said and done, I guess I'll take the country. I'm a country gal, and
I'm here to stay.

Dee Dee

"Miche" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Dee Dee" > wrote:
>
>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Dee Dee wrote:
>
>> >> Yesterday I had a dilemna regarding some calves I saw. I have been so
>> >> distressed over it. Their ribs were showing. Their hips at the joint
>> >> were sticking out. They appeared to me to be distressed as well. I
>> >> can't get it out of my mind.
>> >
>> > do you not have an animal welfare you could report them to?
>> I suppose. But I'd have to go to a PAY-telephone to do it.
>
> Goodness.
>
>> I'm not of like
>> mind to interfere with others' business. Here in the country, people
>> have a
>> different mind-set regarding interference. IOW you don't report
>> someone's
>> dog barking while you're going out of your skull. It's their right.
>> God-given right.
>
> Yet it's their god-given right to starve animals? That's just sick.
>
> How can you stand by and watch animals stave because you don't want to
> spend (what is it, 25c?) to make a phone call that might save their
> lives?
>
> Miche
>
Plonk!
Dee Dee

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> >Must be nice to be rich Blake.
>
> i don't know what you're trying to say here. according to the
> government, i am poor. i do have insurance, thank god. but i don't
> think that should mean tough tittie for everyone else.
>
> your pal,
> blake

You have the money to have insurance.
I have a job that provides most of it, or I'd not be able to afford it.

Not everyone is that lucky, but there ARE programs that provide.

Granted, internet access helps to find them.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> the
> >> typical consumer of health care is not ecstatic about the whole thing.
> >>
> >> your pal,
> >> blake
> >
> >Neither are the providers.
> >
> >Our hospital just sold out to a larger organization due to the fact that
> >a smaller, private facility is no longer able to compete and still
> >provide good care to the community.
> >
> >The operational money has to come from SOMEwhere!
>
> why don't we cut out the private insurance middleman? he is providing
> no services - in fact, he is usually spending his efforts on denying
> benefits.
>
> being critical of the u.s. health system does not mean i'm knocking
> providers.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Proposal please?

I pay over 6K per year in income taxes on a 50K income.

I'm not willing to pay 50%.

I could not afford a morgage, or anything else!

Especially with the current &%#$! oil prices!

Those MF'ers are hurting EVERYONE!!!
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 22:12:00 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>>>
>>> it's another right-wing myth that one will be forced to use government
>>> services. if you have the money, you can bypass the system under
>>> almost any universal care program.
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>>
> then it sounds to me like you have bypassed the medicare system.

> with medicare, you can buy additional insurance if you wish, and use
> any doctor that accepts medicare. if you have the money to pay the
> whole bill, you can use anybody you want.
>
> <http://www.aarp.org/health/medicare/traditional/a2003-04-28-medicarecomparison.html?print=yes>


Of course I can use anyone I want. But I still have to have medicare; it
still has to go thru medicare first before it goes thru my insurance.
Medicare dictates the guidelines for payment. I cannot bypass the medicare
system.

End of corresponding with you on this.

Dee Dee

In article >, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> > In article >,
> > ">> >> Yesterday I had a dilemna regarding some calves I saw. I have been
> > so
> >> >> distressed over it. Their ribs were showing. Their hips at the joint
> >> >> were sticking out. They appeared to me to be distressed as well. I
> >> >> can't get it out of my mind.
>
> But what would you do about his Om?
>
> In that case we would report it to the RSPCA and the police and the owner
> would be charged!

Um, that was not my post, but I'd report it to the local animal shelter.

Trouble is, city limits might not apply so there would be nothing I
could do.

I'd then report it to the local rescue groups that have the actual
resources and contacts.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >, "Ophelia" >
> wrote:
>
>> >> Is that you again, Blake fixated on your right-wing talking points
>> >> accusation. Not everyone is as right wing or radical left as you
>> >> think they are just because they have a different opinion than you.
>> >> Why put everyone in a box, has anyone accused you of having radical
>> >> left talking points, I think not.
>> >>
>> > speaking in right-wing talking points doesn't necessary make you a
>> > right-winger. after all, they are cheerfully spread by the 'liberal'
>> > media. i just call upon people to back them with facts, and they
>> > usually cannot.
>> >
>> > and yes, people have called me a left-wing radical. i will admit,
>> > proudly, to being a liberal.
>>
>> Dee Dee, Blake and Omlet, please explain to me what is going on here???
>
> Um, I quit following this sub-thread as soon as it turned political.
>
> Sorry babe!
> --
> Peace, Om

Yes, I'm moving on out myself.
Dee Dee

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 17:30:45 -0500, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > blake murphy > wrote:
> >
> >> >It runs much deeper than that. The "cost per capita" is not the real
> >> >problem. If only it were that easy.
> >>
> >> no, but the fact that we spend more per capita for poorer results
> >> means our system is not 'the best.' by a long shot.
> >>
> >> your pal,
> >> blake
> >
> >I don't believe that _I_ ever said it was?
>
> you seem to have been defending it as opposed to other countries'
> systems. what else could that mean?
>
> your pal,
> blake

I don't understand. Sorry.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" > ha scritto nel messaggio
news
> In article >,

>> why don't we cut out the private insurance middleman? he is providing
>> no services - in fact, he is usually spending his efforts on denying
>> benefits.
>
> Proposal please?
>
> I pay over 6K per year in income taxes on a 50K income.
>
> I'm not willing to pay 50%.

Where do you come up with that? We pay 7.5% of income for coverage. There
are tiny co-pays for specialist treatments, ?16, and certain tests have
small variable co-pays. Pharmaceuticals are at no cost.
--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com

In article >,
"Giusi" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> news
> > In article >,
>
> >> why don't we cut out the private insurance middleman? he is providing
> >> no services - in fact, he is usually spending his efforts on denying
> >> benefits.
> >
> > Proposal please?
> >
> > I pay over 6K per year in income taxes on a 50K income.
> >
> > I'm not willing to pay 50%.
>
> Where do you come up with that? We pay 7.5% of income for coverage. There
> are tiny co-pays for specialist treatments, ?16, and certain tests have
> small variable co-pays. Pharmaceuticals are at no cost.

Where do you live?

What is your TOTAL income tax percentage?

With all of the final deductions, (SSI and Medicare tax) mine comes out
to nearly 25%.

And then there is 8% sales tax on top of it.

And Property tax, and school tax...

I'd read that the income tax in England was around 50%.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" > ha scritto nel messaggio
news
> In article >,
> "Giusi" > wrote:

>> > I pay over 6K per year in income taxes on a 50K income.
>> >
>> > I'm not willing to pay 50%.
>>
>> Where do you come up with that? We pay 7.5% of income for coverage.
>> There
>> are tiny co-pays for specialist treatments, ?16, and certain tests have
>> small variable co-pays. Pharmaceuticals are at no cost.
>
> Where do you live?
>
> What is your TOTAL income tax percentage?
>
> With all of the final deductions, (SSI and Medicare tax) mine comes out
> to nearly 25%.
>
> And then there is 8% sales tax on top of it.
>
> And Property tax, and school tax...
>
> I'd read that the income tax in England was around 50%.
> --
> Peace, Om

I live in Italy where it seems the medical system works better than the UK..
whoddathunk? >Income taxes are graduated here and the UK. The TOP is 50%
as I recall. I pay nowhere near that.

However, the medical payment is not a tax, but a subscription with a lower
plateau of about euro 385. Under our system, you'd pay 7.5% of $50,000,
nothing for prescriptions, and a small co-pay for some services. Here your
employer may pay all of that or part of it, usually half. Only those
without a fixed job usually pay it all themselves.
--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com

In article >,
"Giusi" > wrote:

> > Where do you live?
> >
> > What is your TOTAL income tax percentage?
> >
> > With all of the final deductions, (SSI and Medicare tax) mine comes out
> > to nearly 25%.
> >
> > And then there is 8% sales tax on top of it.
> >
> > And Property tax, and school tax...
> >
> > I'd read that the income tax in England was around 50%.
> > --
> > Peace, Om
>
> I live in Italy where it seems the medical system works better than the UK..
> whoddathunk? >Income taxes are graduated here and the UK. The TOP is 50%
> as I recall. I pay nowhere near that.
>
> However, the medical payment is not a tax, but a subscription with a lower
> plateau of about euro 385. Under our system, you'd pay 7.5% of $50,000,
> nothing for prescriptions, and a small co-pay for some services. Here your
> employer may pay all of that or part of it, usually half. Only those
> without a fixed job usually pay it all themselves.
> --

Maybe I'll move to Italy. ;-)

What is your Catholic population?

My Employer actually does pay a percentage of my medical insurance.
I pay around $100.00 per month just for myself but there are things the
insurance won't cover. Pap smears for one, and my new Glasses came
entirely out of pocket except for a part of the Dr.'s visit. That was a
$40.00 co-pay.

The glasses (progressive bifocals) were a little over $400.00.

It's a good thing I keep them as long as I can rather than going
annually.

I think I'll skip the annual indignity for 5 years this time. The pap
and mammogram were unaffordable, even with insurance.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" > ha scritto nel messaggio
news
> In article >,
> Maybe I'll move to Italy. ;-)
>
> What is your Catholic population?

85% of the population named Catholic go to church for christening, first
Communion, wedding, funeral. I've never met so many Atheists in my life.

>
> My Employer actually does pay a percentage of my medical insurance.
> I pay around $100.00 per month just for myself but there are things the
> insurance won't cover. Pap smears for one, and my new Glasses came
> entirely out of pocket except for a part of the Dr.'s visit. That was a
> $40.00 co-pay.
> I think I'll skip the annual indignity for 5 years this time. The pap
> and mammogram were unaffordable, even with insurance.
> --
> Peace, Om

Then I think you are being skinned. Pap is free here, mammogram after the
designated age is free, before if there is a suspicion of something wrong
also free. All specialist visits engendered by uyour primary physician cost
euro 16 co-pay.

Glasses are not free, exams are. I have found them relatively cheaper.

Of course you won't make $50,000 here.
--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
>>
> The glasses (progressive bifocals) were a little over $400.00.

sheeeeeeeesh mine were £400! and then my eye changed after a while and I
had to pay £100 for a new lens. So... £500!!!

On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:24:54 +0100, "Ophelia" > wrote:

>
>"Omelet" > wrote in message newsmp_omelet->
>
>Um, I quit following this sub-thread as soon as it turned political.
>>
>> Sorry babe!
>
>OK. I just didn't like you all falling out
>
it's reasonably friendly. i think.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 14:30:36 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
wrote:

>
>"blake murphy" > wrote in message
.. .
>> and now, if you don't have the money for insurance, you are completely
>> shit out of luck. this is better? or maybe you have the money and a
>> pre-existing condition? too bad, so sad.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>>
>
>When the insurance company tripled our rates per year and when medicare
>started taking out money for my medicare even though I already had
>insurance, I guess I could've said that we don't have money for insurance.
>This is the route that a lot of people take -- do they ever cancel their TV
>cable/dish/directTV, do they cut down on their Starbucks --
>
>But I do know there are people who just can't afford at all to buy any
>insurance at all; those that are on some kind of welfare and can check into
>the ER at any time for their health care.
>
>Then there are the ones in between, who are working their butts off and
>still can't pull it together for money for insurance, and are paying taxes
>for the others. Now this doesn't make me happy.
>
>Then there is the very poor, whom I can tell that they are because someone
>has put a tattoo down their butt for free I guess, they are smokin' and
>missing and rotten teeth. They probably wouldn't know how to check into an
>ER or how to sign up for assistance.
>
>Then there is the unfortunate. These are the ones I wouldn't mind having
>some sort of health care. How you gonna do it? Sign everyone up?
>
>Dee Dee
>
i just think a system of universal insurance would take care of that,
and people would not have to rely on charity. it can be done for less
money than we are spending now.

yes, you'd still have poor people, and it would still suck to be them,
but maybe they wouldn't be quite as sick.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 14:33:40 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
wrote:

>
>"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>> Dee Dee wrote:
>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Dee Dee wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> DH was in the hospital 'for' a staph infection - a bite on his elbow
>>>>> that got infected. His doctor was excellent. After two hours, I
>>>>> could see that the nurses were very negligent; slopping IV all over
>>>>> the floor, giving shots and letting them fall on the floor,
>>>>> disallowing him clean footsies, treating him with disrespect.
>>>>
>>>> Well I can't say I was treated with disrespect but I was in a private
>>>> hospital and they don't dare!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All things considered, not caring is a form of disrespect.
>>>
>>> Yesterday I had a dilemna regarding some calves I saw. I have been so
>>> distressed over it. Their ribs were showing. Their hips at the joint
>>> were sticking out. They appeared to me to be distressed as well. I
>>> can't get it out of my mind.
>>
>> do you not have an animal welfare you could report them to?
>I suppose. But I'd have to go to a PAY-telephone to do it. I'm not of like
>mind to interfere with others' business. Here in the country, people have a
>different mind-set regarding interference. IOW you don't report someone's
>dog barking while you're going out of your skull. It's their right.
>God-given right.
>Dee Dee
>
sounds like the land of opportunity for a free-lance dog poisoner.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:02:36 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> >Must be nice to be rich Blake.
>>
>> i don't know what you're trying to say here. according to the
>> government, i am poor. i do have insurance, thank god. but i don't
>> think that should mean tough tittie for everyone else.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>You have the money to have insurance.
>I have a job that provides most of it, or I'd not be able to afford it.
>
>Not everyone is that lucky, but there ARE programs that provide.
>
>Granted, internet access helps to find them.

not all employers provide insurance, and not everyone is eligible for
'programs.' some people would rather buy food than insurance. i
can't say i blame them.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:05:11 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> the
>> >> typical consumer of health care is not ecstatic about the whole thing.
>> >>
>> >> your pal,
>> >> blake
>> >
>> >Neither are the providers.
>> >
>> >Our hospital just sold out to a larger organization due to the fact that
>> >a smaller, private facility is no longer able to compete and still
>> >provide good care to the community.
>> >
>> >The operational money has to come from SOMEwhere!
>>
>> why don't we cut out the private insurance middleman? he is providing
>> no services - in fact, he is usually spending his efforts on denying
>> benefits.
>>
>> being critical of the u.s. health system does not mean i'm knocking
>> providers.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>Proposal please?
>
>I pay over 6K per year in income taxes on a 50K income.
>
>I'm not willing to pay 50%.
>
>I could not afford a morgage, or anything else!
>
>Especially with the current &%#$! oil prices!
>
>Those MF'ers are hurting EVERYONE!!!

a fifty percent tax rate is another scare tactic. ask miche or guisi
or someone in great britain or canada what they pay in taxes. the
u.s. already spends more money on health care than those countries.

no, i have no specific proposal, but other folks are doing a better
job. why not take a look at what they are doing?

your pal,
blake