In article >,
says...
> In article > ,
> "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
> > "Omelet" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > I agree it's a scam. Biofuel can be made from waste straw and weeds.
> > > They don't have to use food to make it.
> > > --
> >
> > In a sense, it makes no difference. A crop is a crop. If you take 10,000
> > acres of corn to make fuel, it is no different that taking that same 10,000
> > acres and planting hay or weeds.
>
> Wrong.
>
> Grow an acre of corn.
> Use the corn for food.
> Use the corn STALKS for making fuel.
>
> Double duty for the land.
>
> Corn stalks are usually burned...
>
> 1 acre of wheat.
> Wheat goes for food,
> Wheat straw for fuel.
>
>
> > The yield per acre is the only thing that
> > counts. What is driving up prices of food crops is the fact that that
> > 10,000 acres is taken over for biofuel. No different than if it was made
> > into a shopping mall or housing, it is just less area to farm for food.
>
> Please see the above.
>
> >
> > Farmers (especially the big ones) are going to grow what makes the best
> > economic sense to them. The corn used for fuel is raised just for that and
> > generally varieties that we'd not eat anyway. Same with cattle feed
> > varieties.
>
> Again, yield can be doubled by using the waste.
> There is, again NO NEED to use food to make ethanol!!!
> Cellulose can be broken down and used instead.
>

So true, we waste an awful lot of potential energy. Look at the oil
cracking process, that little flame jet that you see at the tops of many
a refinery are pretty much methane or hydrogen burning off.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining.htm


Then of course add in light from that big ball of fire in the sky that
we call the Sun, as well as tidal interractions between Earth and it's
Moon.

There's a lot of energy out there just waiting to be taken.

In article >,
T > wrote:

> So true, we waste an awful lot of potential energy. Look at the oil
> cracking process, that little flame jet that you see at the tops of many
> a refinery are pretty much methane or hydrogen burning off.
>
> http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining.htm
>
>
> Then of course add in light from that big ball of fire in the sky that
> we call the Sun, as well as tidal interractions between Earth and it's
> Moon.
>
> There's a lot of energy out there just waiting to be taken.

You forgot geothermal. :-)

Hawaii could run itself off it's volcanoes with energy to spare.

It's all about money...
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Omelet wrote:
>
> In article >,
> T > wrote:
>
> > So true, we waste an awful lot of potential energy. Look at the oil
> > cracking process, that little flame jet that you see at the tops of many
> > a refinery are pretty much methane or hydrogen burning off.
> >
> > http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining.htm
> >
> >
> > Then of course add in light from that big ball of fire in the sky that
> > we call the Sun, as well as tidal interractions between Earth and it's
> > Moon.
> >
> > There's a lot of energy out there just waiting to be taken.
>
> You forgot geothermal. :-)
>
> Hawaii could run itself off it's volcanoes with energy to spare.
>
> It's all about money...

Hawaii, for a seemingly "green" state, is incredibly wasteful of energy
from what I've seen. Look at all the tourist flyers with all the lovely
tiki torches burning away, each one of those things is burning something
like 23,000 btu/hr worth of imported natural gas. Bad enough to be
wasting 23,000 btu/hr on frivolous cosmetic stuff, but imported natural
gas?!!! At least produce some bio-fuel from stuff grown on the dang
island instead of bringing in LNG super tankers. Just one of those
torches wastes enough energy with it's 8hr/day x 365 day operation to
heat a house in the northern US during the winter months.

"Pete C." wrote:
>
> Hawaii, for a seemingly "green" state, is incredibly wasteful of energy
> from what I've seen. Look at all the tourist flyers with all the lovely
> tiki torches burning away, each one of those things is burning something
> like 23,000 btu/hr worth of imported natural gas. Bad enough to be
> wasting 23,000 btu/hr on frivolous cosmetic stuff, but imported natural
> gas?!!! At least produce some bio-fuel from stuff grown on the dang
> island instead of bringing in LNG super tankers. Just one of those
> torches wastes enough energy with it's 8hr/day x 365 day operation to
> heat a house in the northern US during the winter months.

But the tourist industry provides employment for lots
of people in Hawaii, so providing "atmosphere" is not
wasted energy.

It's like when there's an occasional drought in
California, and the news shows pictures of golf
courses being watered -- that's not wasted water.
Those golf courses provide considerable employment
for the amount of water they consume. If you want
to save water in California, stop growing two crops,
cotton and rice, and the saved water will completely
eliminate the worst drought. There's cheap labor
all over the world that will be delighted to grow
all the cotton and rice America could ever use.
Heck, there's good cotton and rice being grown
in the southern U.S. -- no need to waste good
California real estate and water on those crops.

In article >, says...
> "Pete C." wrote:
> >
> > Hawaii, for a seemingly "green" state, is incredibly wasteful of energy
> > from what I've seen. Look at all the tourist flyers with all the lovely
> > tiki torches burning away, each one of those things is burning something
> > like 23,000 btu/hr worth of imported natural gas. Bad enough to be
> > wasting 23,000 btu/hr on frivolous cosmetic stuff, but imported natural
> > gas?!!! At least produce some bio-fuel from stuff grown on the dang
> > island instead of bringing in LNG super tankers. Just one of those
> > torches wastes enough energy with it's 8hr/day x 365 day operation to
> > heat a house in the northern US during the winter months.
>
> But the tourist industry provides employment for lots
> of people in Hawaii, so providing "atmosphere" is not
> wasted energy.
>
> It's like when there's an occasional drought in
> California, and the news shows pictures of golf
> courses being watered -- that's not wasted water.
> Those golf courses provide considerable employment
> for the amount of water they consume. If you want
> to save water in California, stop growing two crops,
> cotton and rice, and the saved water will completely
> eliminate the worst drought. There's cheap labor
> all over the world that will be delighted to grow
> all the cotton and rice America could ever use.
> Heck, there's good cotton and rice being grown
> in the southern U.S. -- no need to waste good
> California real estate and water on those crops.
>

Cotton I can see, just start growing hemp again. But rice is a little
different.

In article >,
T > wrote:

> In article >, says...
> > "Pete C." wrote:
> > >
> > > Hawaii, for a seemingly "green" state, is incredibly wasteful of energy
> > > from what I've seen. Look at all the tourist flyers with all the lovely
> > > tiki torches burning away, each one of those things is burning something
> > > like 23,000 btu/hr worth of imported natural gas. Bad enough to be
> > > wasting 23,000 btu/hr on frivolous cosmetic stuff, but imported natural
> > > gas?!!! At least produce some bio-fuel from stuff grown on the dang
> > > island instead of bringing in LNG super tankers. Just one of those
> > > torches wastes enough energy with it's 8hr/day x 365 day operation to
> > > heat a house in the northern US during the winter months.
> >
> > But the tourist industry provides employment for lots
> > of people in Hawaii, so providing "atmosphere" is not
> > wasted energy.
> >
> > It's like when there's an occasional drought in
> > California, and the news shows pictures of golf
> > courses being watered -- that's not wasted water.
> > Those golf courses provide considerable employment
> > for the amount of water they consume. If you want
> > to save water in California, stop growing two crops,
> > cotton and rice, and the saved water will completely
> > eliminate the worst drought. There's cheap labor
> > all over the world that will be delighted to grow
> > all the cotton and rice America could ever use.
> > Heck, there's good cotton and rice being grown
> > in the southern U.S. -- no need to waste good
> > California real estate and water on those crops.
> >
>
> Cotton I can see, just start growing hemp again.

Good luck with that. ;-)

> But rice is a little
> different.

I don't understand why they'd bother.
It comes in so cheap from China.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
>>
>> Cotton I can see, just start growing hemp again.
>
> Good luck with that. ;-)
>
..
> --
> Peace, Om

Organic Hemp ladies pants - grown in Romania -- made in Romania -- $60 a
pair. Who's making the money off that? I wonder.
Dee Dee

T > wrote:

> Cotton I can see, just start growing hemp again.

They do at some places, legally, though not for cotton, yet.
Swiss-produced cannabis iced tea is sold in the food hall of a local
department store here and is apparently available in Austria, too. Most
of the THT has been removed, though. See
<http://www.shoppingwels.at/newsletter/c_ice.jpg>.

Victor

T wrote:
>
> Cotton I can see, just start growing hemp again.


Look into bamboo. More absorbent than cotton, soft, grows like crazy,
doesn't require pesticides.


--Lia

In article >,
Julia Altshuler > wrote:

> T wrote:
> >
> > Cotton I can see, just start growing hemp again.
>
>
> Look into bamboo. More absorbent than cotton, soft, grows like crazy,
> doesn't require pesticides.
>
>
> --Lia

Do they really make fabric out of Bamboo?
I've never seen that!

Considering how prolific that stuff is, that would be very good for the
environment. :-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
> T wrote:
> >
> > Cotton I can see, just start growing hemp again.
>
> Look into bamboo. More absorbent than cotton, soft,
> grows like crazy, doesn't require pesticides.

Uh, yeah. Removing it generally requires
nuclear explosives.

In article >,
"Pete C." > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> >
> > In article >,
> > T > wrote:
> >
> > > So true, we waste an awful lot of potential energy. Look at the oil
> > > cracking process, that little flame jet that you see at the tops of many
> > > a refinery are pretty much methane or hydrogen burning off.
> > >
> > > http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > Then of course add in light from that big ball of fire in the sky that
> > > we call the Sun, as well as tidal interractions between Earth and it's
> > > Moon.
> > >
> > > There's a lot of energy out there just waiting to be taken.
> >
> > You forgot geothermal. :-)
> >
> > Hawaii could run itself off it's volcanoes with energy to spare.
> >
> > It's all about money...
>
> Hawaii, for a seemingly "green" state, is incredibly wasteful of energy
> from what I've seen. Look at all the tourist flyers with all the lovely
> tiki torches burning away, each one of those things is burning something
> like 23,000 btu/hr worth of imported natural gas. Bad enough to be
> wasting 23,000 btu/hr on frivolous cosmetic stuff, but imported natural
> gas?!!! At least produce some bio-fuel from stuff grown on the dang
> island instead of bringing in LNG super tankers. Just one of those
> torches wastes enough energy with it's 8hr/day x 365 day operation to
> heat a house in the northern US during the winter months.

I've not looked to be honest.

I use Citronella lamp oil here for Tiki torches to drive off the
mosquitos. ;-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:29:06 GMT, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>> >
>> > There's a lot of energy out there just waiting to be taken.
>>
>> You forgot geothermal. :-)
>>
>> Hawaii could run itself off it's volcanoes with energy to spare.
>>
>> It's all about money...
>
>Hawaii, for a seemingly "green" state, is incredibly wasteful of energy
>from what I've seen. Look at all the tourist flyers with all the lovely
>tiki torches burning away, each one of those things is burning something
>like 23,000 btu/hr worth of imported natural gas. Bad enough to be
>wasting 23,000 btu/hr on frivolous cosmetic stuff, but imported natural
>gas?!!! At least produce some bio-fuel from stuff grown on the dang
>island instead of bringing in LNG super tankers. Just one of those
>torches wastes enough energy with it's 8hr/day x 365 day operation to
>heat a house in the northern US during the winter months.

OT of course---I don't know if your butane thing is accurate, but you
are correct, we are hardly a "green" state. Hawaii is not a
progressive state at all- we've been ruled by the same political party
for 50 years!

Regarding green: being the most isolated land mass on earth which we
are, means we have one big thing against us. Distance to other
land.- We have no real recycle place locally and it all must be sent
to the mainland. Everything that we use must be brought in.

One of our big rubbish dumps in Honolulu uses garbage as fuel, but it
is not handling all the rubbish. The powers-that-be are considering
sending our extra rubbish to the mainland.

We are not evolved. 1/3 of the islands' population works for the
government (!) Federal or State and I would be willing to bet, all
those people have air conditioners and w/o being too disparaging, how
many of those very government workers worry about *being green*? Heck,
the local Airport Authority plans to enclose the Kailua Kona airport
(Keahole) because its open air tropical theme allows bugs in. We don't
have many bugs, honest. Beach goers don't complain about bugs and the
airport is near the beach.

I think we have always been dependent on gas and oil, etc. etc from
the mainland so we just continue to build it into our lives.

BTW Geothermal is used in a small part on this island of Hawaii.

Sorry for my rant. Tip toeing out of here.

aloha,
beans
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona

In article >,
wrote:

> We are not evolved. 1/3 of the islands' population works for the
> government (!) Federal or State and I would be willing to bet, all
> those people have air conditioners and w/o being too disparaging, how
> many of those very government workers worry about *being green*? Heck,
> the local Airport Authority plans to enclose the Kailua Kona airport
> (Keahole) because its open air tropical theme allows bugs in. We don't
> have many bugs, honest. Beach goers don't complain about bugs and the
> airport is near the beach.
>
> I think we have always been dependent on gas and oil, etc. etc from
> the mainland so we just continue to build it into our lives.
>
> BTW Geothermal is used in a small part on this island of Hawaii.
>
> Sorry for my rant. Tip toeing out of here.
>
> aloha,
> beans

Don't apologize. :-) It was a GOOD rant!

Hawaii is a beautiful place.
I can't help but wonder how self-sufficient it could be if it ever got
isolated.

The natives that lived there for hundreds of years seemed to have
survived ok.

Main crops iirc are tourism, pineapples and coconuts?
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:09:19 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> wrote:
>

>
>Don't apologize. :-) It was a GOOD rant!
>
>Hawaii is a beautiful place.
>I can't help but wonder how self-sufficient it could be if it ever got
>isolated.
>
>The natives that lived there for hundreds of years seemed to have
>survived ok.
>
>Main crops iirc are tourism, pineapples and coconuts?

Tourism is #1, Pineapples just closed down (pricey real estate) and I
don't think coconuts figure. They are probably imported from the
south Pacific. Heck, our public area coconuts are trimmed to the max
because of liability so they all have a surprised kind of look (no
leaves drooping downwards), and offer no coconuts, sadly. I guess
after government, our largest legal crop might be diversified ag
which includes Kona Coffee. It is about Tourism. We do have really
gorgeous beaches, a really sweet and mild climate and it is all set up
in resort areas, to have a nightlife.

The natives,survived, btw,on very little as their needs were small.
Study the Hawaiian people some day and you will see they were indeed
self-sufficient, but it might take all day to get dinner and that was
okay- like for every indigenous group. They had time, and our weather
is mild all the time, so that was not a concern. Just different
times.

Hopefully we won't get isolated. We're too used to things! In the
past we had big dock strikes and no shipments of necessities could get
here. So TP comes quickly to mind for many, when a potential dock
strike is even whispered about

aloha,
beans
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona

> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:09:19 -0500, Omelet >
> wrote:
> Tourism is #1, Pineapples just closed down (pricey real estate) and I
> don't think coconuts figure. They are probably imported from the
> south Pacific. Heck, our public area coconuts are trimmed to the max
> because of liability so they all have a surprised kind of look (no
> leaves drooping downwards), and offer no coconuts, sadly. I guess
> after government, our largest legal crop might be diversified ag
> which includes Kona Coffee. It is about Tourism. We do have really
> gorgeous beaches, a really sweet and mild climate and it is all set up
> in resort areas, to have a nightlife.

No more cane sugar?
We lived by the beach and had no a/c -- All that burning of the sugar cane
fields left a film of black throughout the house.

Dee Dee

In article >,
wrote:

> Pineapples just closed down (pricey real estate)

Really?

Dole is closing down in Hawaii?

I'll have to research then where the local ones are coming from.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
wrote:

> Hopefully we won't get isolated. We're too used to things! In the
> past we had big dock strikes and no shipments of necessities could get
> here. So TP comes quickly to mind for many, when a potential dock
> strike is even whispered about
>
> aloha,
> beans

Gotta love the Teamsters Union. :-(
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

wrote:
>
> On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:29:06 GMT, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >> >
> >> > There's a lot of energy out there just waiting to be taken.
> >>
> >> You forgot geothermal. :-)
> >>
> >> Hawaii could run itself off it's volcanoes with energy to spare.
> >>
> >> It's all about money...
> >
> >Hawaii, for a seemingly "green" state, is incredibly wasteful of energy
> >from what I've seen. Look at all the tourist flyers with all the lovely
> >tiki torches burning away, each one of those things is burning something
> >like 23,000 btu/hr worth of imported natural gas. Bad enough to be
> >wasting 23,000 btu/hr on frivolous cosmetic stuff, but imported natural
> >gas?!!! At least produce some bio-fuel from stuff grown on the dang
> >island instead of bringing in LNG super tankers. Just one of those
> >torches wastes enough energy with it's 8hr/day x 365 day operation to
> >heat a house in the northern US during the winter months.
>
> OT of course---I don't know if your butane thing is accurate, but you
> are correct, we are hardly a "green" state. Hawaii is not a
> progressive state at all- we've been ruled by the same political party
> for 50 years!

The 23,000 btu/hr rating came from reading the labels on the bottom of
several when I was in Waikiki back in February. While I didn't
personally check for LNG super tankers, I'm pretty sure there are no
natural gas wells on the islands.

>
> Regarding green: being the most isolated land mass on earth which we
> are, means we have one big thing against us. Distance to other
> land.- We have no real recycle place locally and it all must be sent
> to the mainland. Everything that we use must be brought in.

Funny, seems to me that the original folks inhabiting those islands were
able to get pretty much everything they needed locally. Not saying
nothing should be imported, but certainly there should be a whole lot
more effort to utilize the abundant resources that are local.
Considering how well stuff grows there, it seems to me it should be
pretty easy to at least produce a workable tiki torch bio-fuel locally.

>
> One of our big rubbish dumps in Honolulu uses garbage as fuel, but it
> is not handling all the rubbish. The powers-that-be are considering
> sending our extra rubbish to the mainland.

*shaking head*

>
> We are not evolved. 1/3 of the islands' population works for the
> government (!) Federal or State and I would be willing to bet, all
> those people have air conditioners and w/o being too disparaging, how
> many of those very government workers worry about *being green*?

I would expect about the same percentage as the general population, in
other words, not many.

> Heck,
> the local Airport Authority plans to enclose the Kailua Kona airport
> (Keahole) because its open air tropical theme allows bugs in. We don't
> have many bugs, honest. Beach goers don't complain about bugs and the
> airport is near the beach.

I loved that airport. A runway and some huts in the middle of a lava
field, what more could you want? In the 9 days I was there I don't
recall noticing much of any bugs, even on an ATV tour.

>
> I think we have always been dependent on gas and oil, etc. etc from
> the mainland so we just continue to build it into our lives.

Certainly have been in modern times, but you've got plenty of other
resources there if the as you say powers that be get their heads out of
their posteriors and start moving things in the right direction. It's
not like you've got the problem the mainland has of ever increasing
energy demands, I expect things there are relatively stable for the most
part with a large percentage of land protected from development. Where
old stuff is being torn down and rebuilt, the greater efficiencies of
the new stuff should keep overall demand in check.

>
> BTW Geothermal is used in a small part on this island of Hawaii.

Good to hear that.

>
> Sorry for my rant. Tip toeing out of here.

Rant away, that's what newsgroups are for...

>
> aloha,
> beans
> roast beans to kona to email
> farmers of Pure Kona

Got any good job openings for a certified jack of all trades maintenance
type person (me)? Room, board and all the coffee I can drink perhaps?

Pete C.

wrote:
>
> aloha,
> beans
> roast beans to kona to email
> farmers of Pure Kona


Thread Drift Alert!


Last night on the radio, I heard an interesting report about the coqui
frog in Hawaii, the noise it makes, efforts to control or eradicate
them. They made it sound like a real nuisance, a menace to the tourist
trade, something that diminishes the quality of life. Would you say it
was really that bad? I want to hear both sides of the story.


--Lia

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:23:38 -0400, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

wrote:
>>
>> aloha,
>> beans
>> roast beans to kona to email
>> farmers of Pure Kona
>
>
>Thread Drift Alert!
>
>
>Last night on the radio, I heard an interesting report about the coqui
>frog in Hawaii, the noise it makes, efforts to control or eradicate
>them. They made it sound like a real nuisance, a menace to the tourist
>trade, something that diminishes the quality of life. Would you say it
>was really that bad? I want to hear both sides of the story.
>
>
>--Lia

Oh my, I have work to do, but Yes those coqui are nasty and noisy. It
sounds like a piercing KO KEE constantly through out he night. We
have one out our guestroom window and I had to sleep thee the other
night, and it was so noisy-ARGH.They haven't come to our property in
droves- yet. The good part is that they don't KOKEE during the day,
and during the dry part of our year- here, where we live, it's from
about November to March, they go dormant or whatever it is called.
They sound horrible but I am pretty noise sensitive. So it seems like
a nightmare if they all began to come. My SO won't apply the suggested
citric acid to "dry" them out because it would hurt all of our
insects. I don't know.

aloha, beans back to work
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona

wrote:
>
> Oh my, I have work to do, but Yes those coqui are nasty and noisy. It
> sounds like a piercing KO KEE constantly through out he night. We
> have one out our guestroom window and I had to sleep thee the other
> night, and it was so noisy-ARGH.They haven't come to our property in
> droves- yet. The good part is that they don't KOKEE during the day,
> and during the dry part of our year- here, where we live, it's from
> about November to March, they go dormant or whatever it is called.
> They sound horrible but I am pretty noise sensitive. So it seems like
> a nightmare if they all began to come. My SO won't apply the suggested
> citric acid to "dry" them out because it would hurt all of our
> insects. I don't know.


Then you're saying a single frog outside the window can make that much
noise? There's no better way to trap one than to spray an entire area?
I just put "coqui frog" into google images and found sites for
acoustic laboratories. I have a lot to learn.


--Lia

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> T > wrote:
>
> > So true, we waste an awful lot of potential energy. Look at the oil
> > cracking process, that little flame jet that you see at the tops of many
> > a refinery are pretty much methane or hydrogen burning off.
> >
> > http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining.htm
> >
> >
> > Then of course add in light from that big ball of fire in the sky that
> > we call the Sun, as well as tidal interractions between Earth and it's
> > Moon.
> >
> > There's a lot of energy out there just waiting to be taken.
>
> You forgot geothermal. :-)
>
> Hawaii could run itself off it's volcanoes with energy to spare.
>
> It's all about money...
>

Of course it is. Just finished a very good book by Edwin Black titles
"Internal Combustion". He explains that electric vehicles were gaining
steam back in the late 19th and early 20th century and goes on to
explain how the big auto manufacturers like GM, and big oil like
Rockefeller's Standard Oil which lives on today as Exxon-Mobil.

In article >,
T > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> > In article >,
> > T > wrote:
> >
> > > So true, we waste an awful lot of potential energy. Look at the oil
> > > cracking process, that little flame jet that you see at the tops of many
> > > a refinery are pretty much methane or hydrogen burning off.
> > >
> > > http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > Then of course add in light from that big ball of fire in the sky that
> > > we call the Sun, as well as tidal interractions between Earth and it's
> > > Moon.
> > >
> > > There's a lot of energy out there just waiting to be taken.
> >
> > You forgot geothermal. :-)
> >
> > Hawaii could run itself off it's volcanoes with energy to spare.
> >
> > It's all about money...
> >
>
> Of course it is. Just finished a very good book by Edwin Black titles
> "Internal Combustion". He explains that electric vehicles were gaining
> steam back in the late 19th and early 20th century and goes on to
> explain how the big auto manufacturers like GM, and big oil like
> Rockefeller's Standard Oil which lives on today as Exxon-Mobil.

I have to wonder how good of a living one can make being a professional
lobbyist.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> T > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > says...
> > > In article >,
> > > T > wrote:
> > >
> > > > So true, we waste an awful lot of potential energy. Look at the oil
> > > > cracking process, that little flame jet that you see at the tops of many
> > > > a refinery are pretty much methane or hydrogen burning off.
> > > >
> > > > http://science.howstuffworks.com/oil-refining.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Then of course add in light from that big ball of fire in the sky that
> > > > we call the Sun, as well as tidal interractions between Earth and it's
> > > > Moon.
> > > >
> > > > There's a lot of energy out there just waiting to be taken.
> > >
> > > You forgot geothermal. :-)
> > >
> > > Hawaii could run itself off it's volcanoes with energy to spare.
> > >
> > > It's all about money...
> > >
> >
> > Of course it is. Just finished a very good book by Edwin Black titles
> > "Internal Combustion". He explains that electric vehicles were gaining
> > steam back in the late 19th and early 20th century and goes on to
> > explain how the big auto manufacturers like GM, and big oil like
> > Rockefeller's Standard Oil which lives on today as Exxon-Mobil.
>
> I have to wonder how good of a living one can make being a professional
> lobbyist.
>

You can do very nicely.

But I'm not a lobbyist, I just know how it works.

In article >,
T > wrote:

> > I have to wonder how good of a living one can make being a professional
> > lobbyist.
> >
>
> You can do very nicely.
>
> But I'm not a lobbyist, I just know how it works.

And how does one get into that career?
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> T > wrote:
>
> > > I have to wonder how good of a living one can make being a professional
> > > lobbyist.
> > >
> >
> > You can do very nicely.
> >
> > But I'm not a lobbyist, I just know how it works.
>
> And how does one get into that career?
>

It helps if one is associated with a lobbying firm, most of which are
law firms.

Omelet wrote:
>
> In article >,
> T > wrote:
>
> > > I have to wonder how good of a living one can make being a professional
> > > lobbyist.
> > >
> >
> > You can do very nicely.
> >
> > But I'm not a lobbyist, I just know how it works.
>
> And how does one get into that career?

I think you have to take the prerequisite course on selling your soul...

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> It's all about money...
> --
> Peace, Om

and/or POWER.
Dee Dee

In article >,
"Dee Dee" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> > It's all about money...
> > --
> > Peace, Om
>
> and/or POWER.
> Dee Dee

The two are most often synonymous. ;-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson