"PeterLucas" > ha scritto nel messaggio
0.25...
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>
>> I'll do what I can, eh? In order to put pics on the jamlady eboard
>> site I'll have to dump a lot -- and that's going to be tough choices
>> to do. Shoot, I may just buy another board for the purpose. . .
>> .we'll see.
>>
>
>
>
> www.photobucket.com
>
>
> No buy, is free.
>
>
>

If you want an healthy "pane e mortadella", you will think and you will do
because it is: "una proposta che non puoi rifiutare,ahhhh!!!"

--
Kisses
Pandora

"Pandora" > schrieb
>
> "PeterLucas" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> 0.25...
>> Melba's Jammin' > wrote
>>>
>>> I'll do what I can, eh? In order to put pics on the jamlady eboard
>>> site I'll have to dump a lot -- and that's going to be tough choices
>>> to do. Shoot, I may just buy another board for the purpose. . .
>>> .we'll see.
>> www.photobucket.com
>>
>>
>> No buy, is free.
>>
>>
>>
>
> If you want an healthy "pane e mortadella", you will think and you will do
> because it is: "una proposta che non puoi rifiutare,ahhhh!!!"
>
Unless one has a good recipe for horse-head ... ;-)

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

"Michael Kuettner" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>
> "Pandora" > schrieb
>>
>> "PeterLucas" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> 0.25...
>>> Melba's Jammin' > wrote
>>>>
>>>> I'll do what I can, eh? In order to put pics on the jamlady eboard
>>>> site I'll have to dump a lot -- and that's going to be tough choices
>>>> to do. Shoot, I may just buy another board for the purpose. . .
>>>> .we'll see.
>>> www.photobucket.com
>>>
>>>
>>> No buy, is free.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If you want an healthy "pane e mortadella", you will think and you will
>> do
>> because it is: "una proposta che non puoi rifiutare,ahhhh!!!"
>>
> Unless one has a good recipe for horse-head ... ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Michael Kuettner

Perhaps But I like tooo much horses!))))))))))

--
Kisses
Pandora

Sqwertz wrote:

> On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 09:04:42 GMT, Reg wrote:
>
>
>>Sure. Here's a batch of my smoked bologna (which is to say,
>>mortadella without the garnish).
>>
>>http://i24.tinypic.com/svjfig.jpg
>>http://i22.tinypic.com/2evg4jk.jpg
>>http://i23.tinypic.com/2mdpcuw.jpg
>
>
> You should post on alt.binaries.food. You can hit and run,
> that's fine. You don't have to followup if time is the iussue
> ;-)
>

So how'd you know time is *the* issue these days?
Must be the keylogger you installed on my machine.

> How did you achieve the emulsion for your bologna?

You need some relatively powerful equipment. I first tried
it in my old cuisinart which was a standard issue 7/8
cup model. It fried after a few batches, and the result
wasn't nearly smooth enough. Then I got a DLCXP 1 1/2 hp
which has held up well for several years. I don't expect
it will conk out anytime soon. If it ever does I'll have
to take things to the next level, whatever that is. Power
and sharp blades are key to emulsifying meats.

I use a 5-4-3 mix of lean, fat, and water, which is pretty
standard. I cube the lean, mix in the cure, run it through
the grinder, then grind the fat separately. Both get completely
rechilled.

Mix the lean and most of the ice and spin it in la machine.
Keep spinning and adding in more ice and the temp will drop. It
will go below 30 F, then begin to climb. When it hits 40 F add
in the fat and keep spinning. At 50 F add the nonfat powdered
milk. Mix it mercilessly now scraping down the bowl until it's
completely smooth, you have a light, spongy texture, and
the temp hits about 58 F.

Fold in your garnish and stuff into casings. The first few times
I tried poaching before smoking but with good fire control I
don't find it necessary. As long as you keep the pit temp stable
and well below 200 F everything works fine. If you overheat it,
the fat will run out and it'll be rubbery.

If you garnish with fat, do cure it first. If you get good
at making lardo, it might not survive long enough to use
in your mortadella. It's great stuff.

--
Reg

On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:03:16 -0700, Reg > wrote:

Power
>and sharp blades are key to emulsifying meats.
>
>I use a 5-4-3 mix of lean, fat, and water, which is pretty
>standard. I cube the lean, mix in the cure, run it through
>the grinder, then grind the fat separately. Both get completely
>rechilled.
>
>Mix the lean and most of the ice and spin it in la machine.
>Keep spinning and adding in more ice and the temp will drop. It
>will go below 30 F, then begin to climb. When it hits 40 F add
>in the fat and keep spinning. At 50 F add the nonfat powdered
>milk. Mix it mercilessly now scraping down the bowl until it's
>completely smooth, you have a light, spongy texture, and
>the temp hits about 58 F.

I had heard via the book Charcuterie and via eGullet that keeping
things COLD, COLD, COLD was one of the most important things involved.
Christine

Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> I am not fond of the saltless pane Toscana. :-)

First, you have to get used to it, but it grows on you after a while.
Second, it is eaten with such foods as the relatively heavily salted
Tuscan sausages, goat cheese, and hams, complementing them and providing
a contrast.

Tuscans often have a hard time getting used to salted bread. When in
excile in Ravenna, Dante wrote in his _Divina Commedia, Paradiso, XVII,
58-60_

Tu proverai sì come sa di sale
lo pane altrui, e come è duro calle
lo scender e 'l salir per l'altrui scale

He was really complaining about the literally too salty "foreign" bread
he had to eat and not, as is often rendered in translations, "bitter
bread" or one seasoned with the poet's tears, incorrectly assuming a
metaphor. In Florence and its surroundings, salt used to be scarce and
considered a luxury. Besides, it was heavily taxed. In Ravenna, on the
other hand, there are some of the largest salt mines and salt has always
been used liberally.

Bubba

Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
> > I demand meticulous details! Now!
>
> Sorry, Bubba Vic. My access is $10 euro for an hour.

You do not have to be online to write something, not even if you use an
online newsreader, as indeed you do. Posting a plain-text message takes
a second. Get to work! STAT!

Bubba Vic

"Victor Sack" > ha scritto nel messaggio
.. .
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
>> I am not fond of the saltless pane Toscana. :-)
>
> First, you have to get used to it, but it grows on you after a while.

I am on 30 years and waiting. Umbrian bread is equally salt free and I
think it tastes like toilet paper. They have a hundred excuses, but it's
really a matter of what they've grown up with, although I often see the very
defenders drizzling oil on their bread and then salting it.

> Second, it is eaten with such foods as the relatively heavily salted
> Tuscan sausages, goat cheese, and hams, complementing them and providing
> a contrast.

Sure it is, but it is also eaten with everything else, too. The result is
some cooks oversalt everything because of the salt free bread.

> Bubba

Bread has salt in it everywhere else. I have always been told that it was
the Pope's tax on salt some 5-600 years ago that is to blame. That's a long
time to fail to get over it. But then, Italians are traditionalists anfd in
most cases that's a good thing.

The real deal in Italian bread is, IMO, pane d'Altamura and reason enough to
go there. I can, however, but it at my supermarket to which it is delivered
every morning. They also make "tipo altamura" but it isn't even close other
than that it has salt.
--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com

"Victor Sack" > ha scritto nel messaggio
.. .
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
>> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>>
>> > I demand meticulous details! Now!
>>
>> Sorry, Bubba Vic. My access is $10 euro for an hour.
>
> You do not have to be online to write something, not even if you use an
> online newsreader, as indeed you do. Posting a plain-text message takes
> a second. Get to work! STAT!
>
> Bubba Vic

That's a terrible price! I've bought access for 1 euro per hour all over
the country.

"Sqwertz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:03:16 -0700, Reg wrote:

> Do you also make your own strutto? That's something I've wanted
> to try, but can only get pork bellies for bacon. Would that work?
>
> -sw

There was a whole discussion about doing that here recently. It's only
rendered lard, and it just takes a big pot and a small fire and a wooden
object for stirring it.
--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com

In article >,
PeterLucas > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' > wrote in
> :
>
>
> >
> > I'll do what I can, eh? In order to put pics on the jamlady eboard
> > site I'll have to dump a lot -- and that's going to be tough choices
> > to do. Shoot, I may just buy another board for the purpose. . .
> > .we'll see.
> >
>
>
>
> www.photobucket.com
>
>
> No buy, is free.

Understood, but I need to add a lot of text.
Thanks.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Dinner at Yummy! 9-15-2007 Pictures included.

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
> > (Victor Sack) wrote:
> >
> > > I demand meticulous details! Now!
> >
> > Sorry, Bubba Vic. My access is $10 euro for an hour.
>
> You do not have to be online to write something, not even if you use an
> online newsreader, as indeed you do. Posting a plain-text message takes
> a second. Get to work! STAT!
>
> Bubba Vic

But, Bubba, me arse is dragging and if the joker in front of me tilts
back the seat, my keyboard will be against my tummy.

It's been a very nice trip. Not to your standards, no doubt, but
suitable for the likes o' me.

Dinner last night involved polpo in a couple different forms, fresh
anchovies (yum!), a scallop, a fish called umber in England (don' know
the Eye-talian word), fried potatoes with it, gnocchi and risotto
(I'lll have to check the pics for particulars) -- very nice (and I KNOW
it's two starches!) and something posing as an ice cream cake --
semifreddo? Poseur! No cake, though lots of amaretti. I've eaten
worse. The wine was fine as was the frizzante.


--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Dinner at Yummy! 9-15-2007 Pictures included.

In article >,
"Giusi" > wrote:

> "Victor Sack" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> .. .
> > Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> >
> >> (Victor Sack) wrote:
> >>
> >> > I demand meticulous details! Now!
> >>
> >> Sorry, Bubba Vic. My access is $10 euro for an hour.
> >
> > You do not have to be online to write something, not even if you use an
> > online newsreader, as indeed you do. Posting a plain-text message takes
> > a second. Get to work! STAT!
> >
> > Bubba Vic
>
> That's a terrible price! I've bought access for 1 euro per hour all over
> the country.

My option was limited.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Dinner at Yummy! 9-15-2007 Pictures included.

In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

>
> You should post on alt.binaries.food. You can hit and run,
> that's fine. You don't have to followup if time is the iussue
> ;-)

>
> -sw

Yeah, yeah. But that's not my plan.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Dinner at Yummy! 9-15-2007 Pictures included.

Our first trip to Italy was with a guided tour from Collette. The guide was
excellent and pointed out the Italian customers along the way. Of course,
eating was something we did at least three times a day so it was often
mentioned.

My first stop for gelato was a surprise. This was a corner shop in Rome
with seating outside. It was brought to us in a China dish and accompanied
by a glass of water. We did not pay until we were finally ready to leave.

Restaurants often don't open for dinner until 7:30. Dinner takes a couple
of hours with different courses. You don't get the check until you ask for
it, it is acceptable to linger over grappa or coffee, etc. The general pace
is much slower.

Some of the meals were part of the tour and included. We ate at some places
that catered to the tourist, but they still had the slow pace of any good
restaurant in Italy. After 9 days, you'd figure we'd be slowed down from
the American pace to the more leisurely Italian style of eating.

The last night we had a buffet dinner with all the expected courses. You'd
think that we'd make a number of trips so each course can be eaten, enjoyed,
and a few minutes to relax before the next, just as we've been doing for the
entire trip. Nope, all but a few of us loaded up plates, gobbled the food
and were ready to leave in under 20 minutes.

Victor Sack wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
>> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>>
>>> I demand meticulous details! Now!
>> Sorry, Bubba Vic. My access is $10 euro for an hour.
>
> You do not have to be online to write something, not even if you use an
> online newsreader, as indeed you do. Posting a plain-text message takes
> a second. Get to work! STAT!
>
> Bubba Vic


Hey, she's on VACATION. Vacation is for recreation, so let her
recreate for heaven's sake. She'll have plenty of time to post when she
gets back to ice cold Minnysoda and hibernates for the next 8 months.
;-)

gloria p

"Melba's Jammin'" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> In article >,
> PeterLucas > wrote:
>> www.photobucket.com
>>
>>
>> No buy, is free.
>
> Understood, but I need to add a lot of text.
> Thanks.
> --
> -Barb

The idea is you park the photos on Bucket or Flickr and then link to them in
your text. Voila! Pix that live elsewjere than you server but show up
virtually instantly.


--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com

On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 23:01:52 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>"Melba's Jammin'" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>> In article >,
>> PeterLucas > wrote:
>>> www.photobucket.com
>>>
>>>
>>> No buy, is free.
>>
>> Understood, but I need to add a lot of text.
>> Thanks.
>> --
>> -Barb
>
>The idea is you park the photos on Bucket or Flickr and then link to them in
>your text. Voila! Pix that live elsewjere than you server but show up
>virtually instantly.

I love Picasa2 from Google. I give my photos captions, upload them to
a Picasa album and send the link around to people who care. The
slide show comes up with all the captions I had done in Picasa.

(When I first installed Picasa several years ago, it gathered up all
the photos in my computer and put them in one spot. That was
heavenly. Now when I plug in my camera and open Picasa, they all go
there. When I do some work on them in Photoshop, they go back to
Picasa and I choose them from there.)

aloha,
beans.
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona

Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> I'll do what I can, eh? In order to put pics on the jamlady eboard site
> I'll have to dump a lot -- and that's going to be tough choices to do.
> Shoot, I may just buy another board for the purpose. . . .we'll see.

What's wrong with mac.com?

Bubba

Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> a fish called umber in England (don' know
> the Eye-talian word)

Temolo. It is a freshwater fish common throughout Europe. I've never
tasted it, but it is said to be similar to trout. Was it good?

Bubba

Giusi > wrote:

> I am on 30 years and waiting. Umbrian bread is equally salt free and I
> think it tastes like toilet paper. They have a hundred excuses, but it's
> really a matter of what they've grown up with, although I often see the very
> defenders drizzling oil on their bread and then salting it.

But you have to admit that such dishes as fettunta, panzanella, pappa
col pomodoro, or ribollita don't taste as good when made with anything
other than that coarse saltless bread, even if one does add salt to the
dish eventually.

Also, often enough they do forgo salting foods, some even going so far
as eating their bistecche alla fiorentina with just some sprinkled
pepper and perhaps a few drops of olive oil and lemon juice, with no
salt at all.

Victor

"Victor Sack" > ha scritto nel messaggio
.. .
> Giusi > wrote:
>
>> I am on 30 years and waiting. Umbrian bread is equally salt free and I
>> think it tastes like toilet paper. They have a hundred excuses, but it's
>> really a matter of what they've grown up with, although I often see the
>> very
>> defenders drizzling oil on their bread and then salting it.
>
> But you have to admit that such dishes as fettunta, panzanella, pappa
> col pomodoro, or ribollita don't taste as good when made with anything
> other than that coarse saltless bread, even if one does add salt to the
> dish eventually.

No I don't. I change twchnique a bit, but I make those with altamura.

>
> Also, often enough they do forgo salting foods, some >even going so far as
> eating their bistecche alla fiorentina with just some sprinkled pepper and
> perhaps a few drops >of olive oil and lemon juice, with no
> salt at all.
>
> Victor

IMO, meat has a lot of natural salt so I, too rarely salt la Fiorentina, but
overall, I find much of the food oversalted as presented. At present I
don't eat any other food unless I cook it, so it's a fair sample of what's
being served.

--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com

Sqwertz wrote:

> On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:03:16 -0700, Reg wrote:
>
>
>>Mix the lean and most of the ice and spin it in la machine.
>>Keep spinning and adding in more ice and the temp will drop. It
>>will go below 30 F, then begin to climb. When it hits 40 F add
>>in the fat and keep spinning. At 50 F add the nonfat powdered
>>milk. Mix it mercilessly now scraping down the bowl until it's
>>completely smooth, you have a light, spongy texture, and
>>the temp hits about 58 F.
>
>
> I didn't know the temp was that important, other than keeping it
> below 50-60F.
>

Emulsified meats are slightly different in that you need
to raise the temp to a certain level to get the emulsion to
happen. The "cold as possible" rule doesn't apply.

> I wonder if my La Machine would hold up to this. Made in the
> Good 'Ol days. Are those synthetic casings? Which smokes better
> synthetic or natural?

The only time I ever use synthetics are in larger sizes where
the casing are always removed. I'm a die hard fan of natural
casings. The stuff in the pics are in 3 inch hog casings.

> Do you also make your own strutto? That's something I've wanted
> to try, but can only get pork bellies for bacon. Would that
> work?

Belly works. My all time favorite is jowl.

--
Reg

Christine Dabney wrote:

> On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:03:16 -0700, Reg > wrote:
>
> Power
>
>>and sharp blades are key to emulsifying meats.
>>
>>I use a 5-4-3 mix of lean, fat, and water, which is pretty
>>standard. I cube the lean, mix in the cure, run it through
>>the grinder, then grind the fat separately. Both get completely
>>rechilled.
>>
>>Mix the lean and most of the ice and spin it in la machine.
>>Keep spinning and adding in more ice and the temp will drop. It
>>will go below 30 F, then begin to climb. When it hits 40 F add
>>in the fat and keep spinning. At 50 F add the nonfat powdered
>>milk. Mix it mercilessly now scraping down the bowl until it's
>>completely smooth, you have a light, spongy texture, and
>>the temp hits about 58 F.
>
>
> I had heard via the book Charcuterie and via eGullet that keeping
> things COLD, COLD, COLD was one of the most important things involved.
> Christine

Normally, yes.

Typically in sausage making you don't want the fat and lean to
mix. You want them to stay in discrete, separate pieces. Keeping
the temperature low ensures that the fat stays hard, doesn't
smear, and won't start to combine with the lean.

For certain types of products such as bologna and mortadella, however,
you want the opposite to happen. You want the fat and lean to combine
completely into a smooth emulsion with no separation of fat and lean.
Hence the term "emulsified" sausages. Emulsification is done in part
by raising the temperature above a certain level.

The human palate kind of wants it one way or the other, i.e.
completely separate or completely mixed, but not somewhere
in between.

--
Reg

Sqwertz wrote:

> On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:03:16 -0700, Reg wrote:
>
>
>>If you garnish with fat, do cure it first. If you get good
>>at making lardo, it might not survive long enough to use
>>in your mortadella. It's great stuff.
>
>
> I also meant to ask if you think phosphates are necessary for
> moisture retention.


In a word, no. I tried using phosphates several times. I agree that
there is a very slight increase in yield (i.e. less moisture loss
after cooking). I could never sense a difference in moisture level
or texture when eating them, though. Nothing. They didn't taste
any better, or any worse.

So, my take on phosphates is that it's a way to bump up the yield
a bit so producers can get a few extra cents on the dollar.

--
Reg

"Reg" > ha scritto nel messaggio
t...

> For certain types of products such as bologna and mortadella, however,
> you want the opposite to happen. You want the fat and lean to combine
> completely into a smooth emulsion with no separation of fat and lean.
> Hence the term "emulsified" sausages. Emulsification is done in part
> by raising the temperature above a certain level.
>
> The human palate kind of wants it one way or the other, i.e.
> completely separate or completely mixed, but not somewhere
> in between.
>
> --
> Reg
>
And then there is this one I saw in Aoril at Lecce, Puglia.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/decobabe/445424882/

--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:34:36 +0200, "Pandora" >
wrote:

>
>"Melba's Jammin'" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>> I have been enjoying the mortadella for several days, Pandora. :-) I
>> am not fond of the saltless pane Toscana. :-) The ribollita was
>> wonderful.
>
>Yes. I agree with you. I don't like saltless bread of Tuscany! But de
>gustibus non est disputandum

Bread in general is the only bad side of Italy, foodwise. In the North
it's downright bad (white cardboard), in Tuscany it's saltless (ugh),
it starts to be OK in Rome and is pretty good in the South, but it's
never *great*.
Now the bread in Germany, aaaaaahhhhhhh....

Nathalie in Switzerland

"Nathalie Chiva" > ha scritto nel
messaggio ...
> On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:34:36 +0200, "Pandora" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Melba's Jammin'" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>>> I have been enjoying the mortadella for several days, Pandora. :-) I
>>> am not fond of the saltless pane Toscana. :-) The ribollita was
>>> wonderful.
>>
>>Yes. I agree with you. I don't like saltless bread of Tuscany! But de
>>gustibus non est disputandum
>
> Bread in general is the only bad side of Italy, foodwise. In the North
> it's downright bad (white cardboard), in Tuscany it's saltless (ugh),
> it starts to be OK in Rome and is pretty good in the South, but it's
> never *great*.
> Now the bread in Germany, aaaaaahhhhhhh....
>
> Nathalie in Switzerland
>

I don't like Nothern bread nor french bread . I like what in Rome it's
called "Pane casareccio", like "Pane di Genzano" for example.