i have a terrible time with rye bread. it always seems to be
more of a doorstop than a loaf of bread. i know rye doesn't have
as much gluten as bread flour, but i think it might be my
technique? my white & wheat breads come out really well, but i
want rye!
does anyone have a good rye bread, seeded or not, recipe? how
about Russian black bread?
lee

"enigma" > wrote in message
. ..
>i have a terrible time with rye bread. it always seems to be
> more of a doorstop than a loaf of bread. i know rye doesn't have
> as much gluten as bread flour, but i think it might be my
> technique? my white & wheat breads come out really well, but i
> want rye!
> does anyone have a good rye bread, seeded or not, recipe? how
> about Russian black bread?
> lee
>

What's the ratio of rye to wheat flour in your current recipe?

"enigma" > wrote in message
. ..
>i have a terrible time with rye bread. it always seems to be
> more of a doorstop than a loaf of bread. i know rye doesn't have
> as much gluten as bread flour, but i think it might be my
> technique? my white & wheat breads come out really well, but i
> want rye!
> does anyone have a good rye bread, seeded or not, recipe? how
> about Russian black bread?
> lee
>
To get a lot of help with this question, go to alt.bread.recipes The
people there will be happy to help you. Rye flour is very sticky and you
can't get a dough that handles well unless you add too much flour. Go to
alt.bread.recipes -- you'll be able to get as much conversation and recipes
as you want there.
Janet

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in
:

> "enigma" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>i have a terrible time with rye bread. it always seems to
>>be
>> more of a doorstop than a loaf of bread.
>
> What's the ratio of rye to wheat flour in your current
> recipe?

2 3/4 white bread flour
1 1/4 cup rye flour
3/4 cup dark beer (i used bottled Guiness because we don't
have any homebrew stout right now)
3 Tbsp honey
1 Tbsp butter
2 pkg dry yeast
1/2 cup warm water (105-115F)
2 tsp caraway seeds
1 tsp salt
1/2 tsp each onion & garlic powders

however, i didn't manage to get all the white flour in. the
dough was quite stiff & ready to knead with only 2 cups of the
white flour. i think there was maybe an 1/8 cup of white flour
on the kneading surface.
lee

In article >,
enigma > wrote:

> i have a terrible time with rye bread. it always seems to be
> more of a doorstop than a loaf of bread. i know rye doesn't have
> as much gluten as bread flour, but i think it might be my
> technique? my white & wheat breads come out really well, but i
> want rye!
> does anyone have a good rye bread, seeded or not, recipe? how
> about Russian black bread?
> lee

This may not be heavy enough for you, but it's good. Evie Young ruled
the kitchens at Gustavus Adolphus College in St. Peter, MN for many
years.

{ Exported from MasterCook Mac }

Mom¹s Rye Bread

Recipe By: posted again to r.f.cooking by Barb Schaller, 10-8-2007
Serving Size: 30

Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method
1 cup milk
1 cup water
2 1/2 Tbsp. shortening
1/2 cup molasses
1/2 cup sugar
1 tsp. salt
1 tsp. ground anise
2 pkgs. dry yeast
1/4 cup warm water
1 Tbsp. sugar
2 cups rye flour
4 cups white flour (4 to 5)

Scald milk; add water, shortening, molasses, 1/2 cup sugar, salt, and
anise. Dissolve yeast in 1/4 cup warm water and 1 Tbsp. sugar. When
milk mixture is lukewarm, add yeast, then rye flour and mix until
smooth. Add white flour until dough is easy to handle. Turn dough onto
floured board and knead for about 10 minutes until smooth. Place in
greased bowl and let rise in warm place until doubled -- about 2 hours.
Measure and round into 3 balls. Cover and let rest 15 minutes. Place
in greased pans. Let rise; bake at 375 degrees for 35-40 minutes.
After removing from oven, brush with butter.

Won 2nd place at the Minnesota State Fair with this recipe, 1991.

‹‹‹‹‹
Notes: Source: Gustavus Adolphus¹ Evie Young, recipe from Minneapolis
Tribune, December 21, 1981. Outstanding!

Per serving (excluding unknown items): 131 Calories; 2g Fat (11%
calories from fat); 3g Protein; 26g Carbohydrate; 1mg Cholesterol; 78mg
Sodium

_____



--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Dinner at Yummy! 9-15-2007 Pictures included.

"enigma" > wrote in message
. ..
>i have a terrible time with rye bread. it always seems to be
> more of a doorstop than a loaf of bread. i know rye doesn't have
> as much gluten as bread flour, but i think it might be my
> technique? my white & wheat breads come out really well, but i
> want rye!
> does anyone have a good rye bread, seeded or not, recipe? how
> about Russian black bread?
> lee
>

My one and only attempt at rye bread the bread was so hard that it 'broke'
when I let my kids throw it on the sidewalk. It was like a rock.
At least the birds liked it ... i don't know how on earth they could eat it
though! lol

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:51:42 +0000 (UTC), enigma > wrote:

>"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in
:
>
>> "enigma" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>i have a terrible time with rye bread. it always seems to
>>>be
>>> more of a doorstop than a loaf of bread.
>>
>> What's the ratio of rye to wheat flour in your current
>> recipe?
>
>2 3/4 white bread flour
>1 1/4 cup rye flour
>3/4 cup dark beer (i used bottled Guiness because we don't
>have any homebrew stout right now)
>3 Tbsp honey
>1 Tbsp butter
>2 pkg dry yeast
>1/2 cup warm water (105-115F)
>2 tsp caraway seeds
>1 tsp salt
>1/2 tsp each onion & garlic powders
>
>however, i didn't manage to get all the white flour in. the
>dough was quite stiff & ready to knead with only 2 cups of the
>white flour. i think there was maybe an 1/8 cup of white flour
>on the kneading surface.
>lee

I'm not a chef or even a cook but there are two points I notice:

1) Bread won't rise unless you give the yeast something to eat (sugar)

2) Alcohol kills yeast (although I dont know if 3/4 of a bottle of ale would be
enough)

Just my silver ha'penny worth

"enigma" > wrote in message
. ..
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in
> :
>
>> "enigma" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>i have a terrible time with rye bread. it always seems to
>>>be
>>> more of a doorstop than a loaf of bread.
>>
>> What's the ratio of rye to wheat flour in your current
>> recipe?
>
> 2 3/4 white bread flour
> 1 1/4 cup rye flour
> 3/4 cup dark beer (i used bottled Guiness because we don't
> have any homebrew stout right now)
> 3 Tbsp honey
> 1 Tbsp butter
> 2 pkg dry yeast
> 1/2 cup warm water (105-115F)
> 2 tsp caraway seeds
> 1 tsp salt
> 1/2 tsp each onion & garlic powders
>
> however, i didn't manage to get all the white flour in. the
> dough was quite stiff & ready to knead with only 2 cups of the
> white flour. i think there was maybe an 1/8 cup of white flour
> on the kneading surface.
> lee

What the typical rise time?

Larry LaMere > wrote in
news
> On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:51:42 +0000 (UTC), enigma
> > wrote:
>
>>"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in
:
>>
>>> "enigma" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>>i have a terrible time with rye bread. it always seems to
>>>>be
>>>> more of a doorstop than a loaf of bread.
>>>
>>> What's the ratio of rye to wheat flour in your current
>>> recipe?
>>
>>2 3/4 white bread flour
>>1 1/4 cup rye flour
>>3/4 cup dark beer (i used bottled Guiness because we don't
>>have any homebrew stout right now)
>>3 Tbsp honey
>>1 Tbsp butter
>>2 pkg dry yeast
>>1/2 cup warm water (105-115F)
>>2 tsp caraway seeds
>>1 tsp salt
>>1/2 tsp each onion & garlic powders
>>
>>however, i didn't manage to get all the white flour in. the
>>dough was quite stiff & ready to knead with only 2 cups of
>>the white flour. i think there was maybe an 1/8 cup of
>>white flour on the kneading surface.
>>lee
>
> I'm not a chef or even a cook but there are two points I
> notice:
>
> 1) Bread won't rise unless you give the yeast something to
> eat (sugar)

the honey. plus there may still be sugars in the beer.

> 2) Alcohol kills yeast (although I dont know if 3/4 of a
> bottle of ale would be enough)

yeast pees alcohol
the beer is heated with the honey & butter, which drives off
the alcohol anyway (not that Guiness has much anyway). then
it's cooled to 105F to mix with the yeast/water solution

lee

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in
:

> What the typical rise time?

the recipe says 45 minutes in a warm place. i left it a bit
over an hour because it wasn't close to doubled. this recipe
doesn't have a 2nd rise either.
lee

"enigma" > wrote in message
.. .
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in
> :
>
>> What the typical rise time?
>
> the recipe says 45 minutes in a warm place. i left it a bit
> over an hour because it wasn't close to doubled. this recipe
> doesn't have a 2nd rise either.
> lee

Somewhere here, I've got xerox copies of a recipe that worked for me a
couple of years ago. I'll try and find it tonight. Regardless, that rise
time seems too short. I'd try rising it in a cooler place for a longer
period of time.

Melba's Jammin' > wrote in
:

> This may not be heavy enough for you, but it's good. Evie
> Young ruled the kitchens at Gustavus Adolphus College in
> St. Peter, MN for many years.

heh. my grandpa's name was Gustavus Adolphus he used to
tell me stories in Swedish & told me i was a changling child.

> { Exported from MasterCook Mac }
> Mom¹s Rye Bread
>
> Recipe By: posted again to r.f.cooking by Barb Schaller,
> 10-8-2007 Serving Size: 30
>
> Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method
> 1 cup milk
> 1 cup water
> 2 1/2 Tbsp. shortening
> 1/2 cup molasses

yes! molasses sounds more like something that goes in rye
bread than honey!

> 1/2 cup sugar
> 1 tsp. salt
> 1 tsp. ground anise

anise? hmmm. is this a Swedish recipe?

> 2 pkgs. dry yeast
> 1/4 cup warm water
> 1 Tbsp. sugar
> 2 cups rye flour
> 4 cups white flour (4 to 5)
>
> Scald milk; add water, shortening, molasses, 1/2 cup sugar,
> salt, and anise. Dissolve yeast in 1/4 cup warm water and
> 1 Tbsp. sugar. When milk mixture is lukewarm, add yeast,
> then rye flour and mix until smooth. Add white flour until
> dough is easy to handle. Turn dough onto floured board and
> knead for about 10 minutes until smooth. Place in greased
> bowl and let rise in warm place until doubled -- about 2
> hours. Measure and round into 3 balls. Cover and let rest
> 15 minutes. Place in greased pans. Let rise; bake at 375
> degrees for 35-40 minutes. After removing from oven, brush
> with butter.
>
> Won 2nd place at the Minnesota State Fair with this recipe,
> 1991.
>
> ‹‹‹‹‹
> Notes: Source: Gustavus Adolphus¹ Evie Young, recipe
> from Minneapolis Tribune, December 21, 1981. Outstanding!
>
> Per serving (excluding unknown items): 131 Calories; 2g Fat
> (11% calories from fat); 3g Protein; 26g Carbohydrate; 1mg
> Cholesterol; 78mg Sodium

thanks, Barb! i'll try this shortly... we're currently
without water because the drilled well is backfilling into the
dug well (it's *not* supposed to be doing that!), so i had to
kill the pump until the plumber gets here. it's bad enough
i've already scheduled to have the toasted dug well pump &
both pressure tanks replaced on Wednesday... i think that it's
backfilling because the dug well pump is toast.
lee
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if
there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of
blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in
:

> "enigma" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> What the typical rise time?
>>
>> the recipe says 45 minutes in a warm place. i left it a
>> bit over an hour because it wasn't close to doubled. this
>> recipe doesn't have a 2nd rise either.
>> lee
>
> Somewhere here, I've got xerox copies of a recipe that
> worked for me a couple of years ago. I'll try and find it
> tonight. Regardless, that rise time seems too short. I'd
> try rising it in a cooler place for a longer period of
> time.

right now cooler is easy. i don't have the heat on in the
house yet
i thought the rise time was suspect too, but the additional
20-25 minutes i left it didn't seem to make much difference.
i think i have enough rye flour to experiment a bit (i bought
it at Wegman's) & the chickens are quite happy to eat any
'mistakes'.
lee

enigma wrote:
> i have a terrible time with rye bread. it always seems to be
> more of a doorstop than a loaf of bread. i know rye doesn't have
> as much gluten as bread flour, but i think it might be my
> technique? my white & wheat breads come out really well, but i
> want rye!
> does anyone have a good rye bread, seeded or not, recipe? how
> about Russian black bread?
> lee
>

I had a dreadful time with rye bread until I discovered three things:
1) My Kitchenaid stand mixer can kneed it more efficiently than I can,
and rye needs a lot of gluten development
2) Especially at altitude, additional gluten is required
3) Rye dough needs water! The dough should be downright sticky when
worked and shaped.


My rye bread recipe contains no yeast, no milk, no molasses, no coffee,
no chocolate. It does require a lot of water, rye starter, whole wheat
flour, caraway seeds, additional gluten and a pan of boiling water in
the oven. And because its a sourdough, it takes planning. Also,
measurements are approximate as bread rarely works the same way twice.
Your mileage my vary.

I get four medium sized, or two large rounds from this recipe.

You'll need:
Rye sour (sourdough starter)
Rye flour
All purpose flour
Whole wheat flour
Gluten (most supermarkets have it either in the baking supplies or
health food section)
Sugar
Salt
Caraway seed
Water
Egg
High sided pan for boiling water in oven
Knife or other sharp blade for slashing
Silicone or bristle brush


I. Combine in mixer bowl:
2 cups rye sour
3 tablespoons sugar
1 tablespoon salt
1 tablespoon caraway seeds
1 cup rye flour
1 cup whole wheat flour
2 tablespoons gluten
1 cup water

Using the paddle, mix combined ingredients at moderate speed for
ten, yes ten, minutes. This is the first step in sponge production and
gluten
development. Add a little more water if mixture is stiff.

II. Switch to the dough hook, scraping the sponge thoroughly off the
paddle and back into the bowl.
Start the mixer at low speed, and add 1 cup of water. Mix in well.
Add 2 more cups of rye flour gradually, mixing well after each addition.
Add 2 more cups of white flour gradually, mixing well after each addition.
Add water as needed to keep dough a sticky mass. Water requirement can
be quite variable.
Frequent stops to scrape the bowl may be required. If dough is too
batter-like, add more white flour in tablespoon increments until it
becomes more solid.

III. Kneed dough for 15, yes 15, minutes, at Speed 2 on a Kitchenaid.
Dough will *not* clean off the sides of the bowl as it kneeds.

IV. Scrape dough out of mixing bowl and transfer to an oiled bowl for
rising. The dough will be more like sticky elastic paste than an
ordinary white bread dough when kneeding is finished, however very
little more flour will be necessary for handling and transferring to
rising bowl. Cover, and allow to rise until doubled in bulk -- time my
vary widely. Sourdoughs are slow risers.

V. Gently deflate dough, divide it and shape into rounds, cover and
allow to rise until nearly doubled in bulk. Again, the time is variable.

VI. Slash loaves and brush tops with one beaten egg.

VII. Bake at 400 degrees F. for 40-50 minutes for medium size rounds, or
50-60 minutes for large rounds. Have boiling water in place in the oven
before putting the bread in. There is no need to spray or mist the
bread during baking, as the pan of water provides humidity and the egg
wash contributes to a dark chewy crust.

VIII. Doneness can be tested by my Gramma's favorite method: the thump.
Or, you may use the method that works best for you, even measuring
internal temperature if that's what you want. After removing rounds
from oven, get them off the baking surface and directly onto cooling
racks immediately.

IX. Sourdoughs taste best the next day. When the bread is cool, wrap it
well and put it away until tomorrow. But if you really can't wait,
please don't slice the bread until it is ABSOLUTELY cooled right
through to the center.