I've been in touch with an officer of the PTO at my son's school about
eliminating hydrogenated fats 100% from the food served there.
Supposedly, as of January, the school with be hydrogenated fat-free.
Taking that step will also help raise the issue to all the parents.
This is all good.

--Bryan

Bobo Bonobo® > wrote in news:1192533923.994425.319470
@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

> I've been in touch with an officer of the PTO at my son's school about
> eliminating hydrogenated fats 100% from the food served there.
> Supposedly, as of January, the school with be hydrogenated fat-free.
> Taking that step will also help raise the issue to all the parents.
> This is all good.
>


Good, once that obsession is fulfilled, you can go onto other
obsessions........


http://www.newstarget.com/008094.html

Quote......
This is what we have in society today. It's a degenerate society -- The
United States of Degenerate America. It is no exaggeration to say that
the population of the United States of America is the single most
physically and mentally diseased population ever observed in the history
of human civilization.


So why do we live in such a degenerate society? What's the cause of this
degeneration? There are basically two causes. Primarily, there's an
utter lack of nutrition, both in our national food supply and in our
avoidance of sunlight and nutritional supplements. Secondly, the
American people's minds and bodies are being poisoned by prescription
drugs, food additives, metabolic disruptors, artificial light, toxic
chemicals in personal care products, household cleaners, and so on.

Unquote....

That should keep you busy for awhile.

On Oct 16, 6:32 pm, PeterLucas > wrote:
> Bobo Bonobo® > wrote in news:1192533923.994425.319470
> @e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
> > I've been in touch with an officer of the PTO at my son's school about
> > eliminating hydrogenated fats 100% from the food served there.
> > Supposedly, as of January, the school with be hydrogenated fat-free.
> > Taking that step will also help raise the issue to all the parents.
> > This is all good.
>
> Good, once that obsession is fulfilled, you can go onto other
> obsessions........
>
> http://www.newstarget.com/008094.html
>
> Quote......
> This is what we have in society today. It's a degenerate society -- The
> United States of Degenerate America. It is no exaggeration to say that
> the population of the United States of America is the single most
> physically and mentally diseased population ever observed in the history
> of human civilization.
>
> So why do we live in such a degenerate society? What's the cause of this
> degeneration? There are basically two causes. Primarily, there's an
> utter lack of nutrition, both in our national food supply and in our
> avoidance of sunlight and nutritional supplements. Secondly, the
> American people's minds and bodies are being poisoned by prescription
> drugs, food additives, metabolic disruptors, artificial light, toxic
> chemicals in personal care products, household cleaners, and so on.
>
> Unquote....
>
> That should keep you busy for awhile.

Do you think that I'm some kind of apologist for the USA? Jeez.

The few lyrics I've posted here...

--Bryan
Visit Bobo Bonobo's Mortuary and Sausage Emporium,
on the Web at:
http://www.myspace.com/BoboBonobo

For your safety and protection, this sig. file has been
thoroughly tested on laboratory animals.

On Oct 16, 7:32 pm, PeterLucas > wrote:
> Bobo Bonobo® > wrote in news:1192533923.994425.319470
> @e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
> > I've been in touch with an officer of the PTO at my son's school about
> > eliminating hydrogenated fats 100% from the food served there.
> > Supposedly, as of January, the school with be hydrogenated fat-free.
> > Taking that step will also help raise the issue to all the parents.
> > This is all good.
>
> Good, once that obsession is fulfilled, you can go onto other
> obsessions........
>
> http://www.newstarget.com/008094.html
>
> Quote......
> This is what we have in society today. It's a degenerate society -- The
> United States of Degenerate America. It is no exaggeration to say that
> the population of the United States of America is the single most
> physically and mentally diseased population ever observed in the history
> of human civilization.
>
> So why do we live in such a degenerate society? What's the cause of this
> degeneration? There are basically two causes. Primarily, there's an
> utter lack of nutrition, both in our national food supply and in our
> avoidance of sunlight and nutritional supplements. Secondly, the
> American people's minds and bodies are being poisoned by prescription
> drugs, food additives, metabolic disruptors, artificial light, toxic
> chemicals in personal care products, household cleaners, and so on.

Artificial light? How else are we supposed to get anything done? We
can't
all frolic outdoors all day long, you know. Some of us have real
jobs. We can't
all be "a consumer health advocate with a strong interest in personal
health, the
environment and the power of nature to help us all heal."

Of course, on weekends when the weather is good, I'm outside almost
all
day, gardening, building garages (well, one garage), etc.

It's satisfying to work with my hands on the weekend when I've been
working with
my brain all week. A change is as good as a holiday (or however that
old saw
runs).

Cindy Hamilton

Bobo Bonobo® > wrote in news:1192622824.127453.191810
@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com:


>>
>> That should keep you busy for awhile.
>
> Do you think that I'm some kind of apologist for the USA? Jeez.


Not at all. I see you for what you are.


A ranting grandstander on a very small soapbox.



>
> The few lyrics I've posted here...



Are crap. Trust me.

Cindy Hamilton > wrote in
ups.com:


>>
>> http://www.newstarget.com/008094.html
>>
>> Quote......
>> This is what we have in society today. It's a degenerate society --
The
>> United States of Degenerate America. It is no exaggeration to say
that
>> the population of the United States of America is the single most
>> physically and mentally diseased population ever observed in the
history
>> of human civilization.
>>
>> So why do we live in such a degenerate society? What's the cause of
this
>> degeneration? There are basically two causes. Primarily, there's an
>> utter lack of nutrition, both in our national food supply and in our
>> avoidance of sunlight and nutritional supplements. Secondly, the
>> American people's minds and bodies are being poisoned by prescription
>> drugs, food additives, metabolic disruptors, artificial light, toxic
>> chemicals in personal care products, household cleaners, and so on.
>
> Artificial light? How else are we supposed to get anything done? We
> can't
> all frolic outdoors all day long, you know. Some of us have real
> jobs. We can't
> all be "a consumer health advocate with a strong interest in personal
> health, the
> environment and the power of nature to help us all heal."


[Snip the rest ........]


Cindy........... I was showing Byran that there are *others* out there
that are just as loopy and obsessed as he is.


Take a chill pill and don't stress!!!!

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:32:20 +0200 (CEST), PeterLucas >
wrote:

>Bobo Bonobo® > wrote in news:1192533923.994425.319470
:
>
>> I've been in touch with an officer of the PTO at my son's school about
>> eliminating hydrogenated fats 100% from the food served there.
>> Supposedly, as of January, the school with be hydrogenated fat-free.
>> Taking that step will also help raise the issue to all the parents.
>> This is all good.
>>
>
>
>Good, once that obsession is fulfilled, you can go onto other
>obsessions........
>
>
>http://www.newstarget.com/008094.html
>
>Quote......
>This is what we have in society today. It's a degenerate society -- The
>United States of Degenerate America. It is no exaggeration to say that
>the population of the United States of America is the single most
>physically and mentally diseased population ever observed in the history
>of human civilization.
>
>
>So why do we live in such a degenerate society? What's the cause of this
>degeneration? There are basically two causes. Primarily, there's an
>utter lack of nutrition, both in our national food supply and in our
>avoidance of sunlight and nutritional supplements. Secondly, the
>American people's minds and bodies are being poisoned by prescription
>drugs, food additives, metabolic disruptors, artificial light, toxic
>chemicals in personal care products, household cleaners, and so on.
>
>Unquote....
>
>That should keep you busy for awhile.

how's the australian space program going?

your pal,
blake

On Oct 17, 9:43 am, PeterLucas > wrote:
>
> Cindy........... I was showing Byran that there are *others* out there
> that are just as loopy and obsessed as he is.
>
> Take a chill pill and don't stress!!!!-

Oh. Sorry. Silly me.

I'll open this here desk drawer and see if I have any chill pills. I
know
I've already eaten today's chocolate ration.

Cindy

Cindy Hamilton > wrote in
oups.com:

> On Oct 17, 9:43 am, PeterLucas > wrote:
>>
>> Cindy........... I was showing Byran that there are *others* out
there
>> that are just as loopy and obsessed as he is.
>>
>> Take a chill pill and don't stress!!!!-
>
> Oh. Sorry. Silly me.
>
> I'll open this here desk drawer and see if I have any chill pills. I
> know
> I've already eaten today's chocolate ration.
>



LOL!! If it's that 70-85% cocoa type (Lindt?) no wonder you're jumpy!!
;-)

http://www.chocosphere.com/Html/Products/lindt.html


Personally, I'm not much of a dark chocolate man myself....... actually,
I very *rarely* eat chocolate.

Maybe 1-2 Cherry Ripes per year and that's about it.

http://www.cadbury.com.au/sites/cadb....php?pageId=59


If you have a hankering to try one.......

http://about-australia-shop.com/prod...roducts_id/419

http://www.greataussiefood.com.au/showProduct/CACR

http://www.everythingaustralian.com/cachrieaegg.html

http://www.everythingaustralian.com/lolliescandies.html

YOU IS A RARE NUT. AUSSSIE SISSY PETER, AND LETTIN YOURE FELLOW NUT BAGS
DOWN WITH ALL THAT SPEWING OF GARBAGES..

FATTY

"PeterLucas" > wrote in message
0.25...
> Cindy Hamilton > wrote in
> oups.com:
>
>> On Oct 17, 9:43 am, PeterLucas > wrote:
>>>
>>> Cindy........... I was showing Byran that there are *others* out
> there
>>> that are just as loopy and obsessed as he is.
>>>
>>> Take a chill pill and don't stress!!!!-
>>
>> Oh. Sorry. Silly me.
>>
>> I'll open this here desk drawer and see if I have any chill pills. I
>> know
>> I've already eaten today's chocolate ration.
>>
>
>
>
> LOL!! If it's that 70-85% cocoa type (Lindt?) no wonder you're jumpy!!
> ;-)
>
> http://www.chocosphere.com/Html/Products/lindt.html
>
>
> Personally, I'm not much of a dark chocolate man myself....... actually,
> I very *rarely* eat chocolate.
>
> Maybe 1-2 Cherry Ripes per year and that's about it.
>
> http://www.cadbury.com.au/sites/cadb....php?pageId=59
>
>
> If you have a hankering to try one.......
>
> http://about-australia-shop.com/prod...roducts_id/419
>
> http://www.greataussiefood.com.au/showProduct/CACR
>
> http://www.everythingaustralian.com/cachrieaegg.html
>
> http://www.everythingaustralian.com/lolliescandies.html
>

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:48:27 -0700, Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Oct 17, 9:43 am, PeterLucas > wrote:
>>
>> Cindy........... I was showing Byran that there are *others* out there
>> that are just as loopy and obsessed as he is.
>>
>> Take a chill pill and don't stress!!!!-
>
>Oh. Sorry. Silly me.
>
>I'll open this here desk drawer and see if I have any chill pills. I
>know
>I've already eaten today's chocolate ration.
>
>Cindy

in america, the chocolate ration has been increased to 20 grams a
week.

your pal,
blake

On Oct 18, 12:29 pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:48:27 -0700, Cindy Hamilton
>
> > wrote:
> >On Oct 17, 9:43 am, PeterLucas > wrote:
>
> >> Cindy........... I was showing Byran that there are *others* out there
> >> that are just as loopy and obsessed as he is.
>
> >> Take a chill pill and don't stress!!!!-
>
> >Oh. Sorry. Silly me.
>
> >I'll open this here desk drawer and see if I have any chill pills. I
> >know
> >I've already eaten today's chocolate ration.
>
> >Cindy
>
> in america, the chocolate ration has been increased to 20 grams a
> week.

Oops. I eat something like 30 grams a day. What's that? I think the
police are breaking the door down to bust me.

Cindy Hamilton

On Oct 17, 7:43 am, PeterLucas > wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton > wrote roups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>http://www.newstarget.com/008094.html
>
> >> Quote......
> >> This is what we have in society today. It's a degenerate society --
> The
> >> United States of Degenerate America. It is no exaggeration to say
> that
> >> the population of the United States of America is the single most
> >> physically and mentally diseased population ever observed in the
> history
> >> of human civilization.
>
> >> So why do we live in such a degenerate society? What's the cause of
> this
> >> degeneration? There are basically two causes. Primarily, there's an
> >> utter lack of nutrition, both in our national food supply and in our
> >> avoidance of sunlight and nutritional supplements. Secondly, the
> >> American people's minds and bodies are being poisoned by prescription
> >> drugs, food additives, metabolic disruptors, artificial light, toxic
> >> chemicals in personal care products, household cleaners, and so on.
>
> > Artificial light? How else are we supposed to get anything done? We
> > can't
> > all frolic outdoors all day long, you know. Some of us have real
> > jobs. We can't
> > all be "a consumer health advocate with a strong interest in personal
> > health, the
> > environment and the power of nature to help us all heal."
>
> [Snip the rest ........]
>
> Cindy........... I was showing Byran that there are *others* out there
> that are just as loopy and obsessed as he is.
>
> Take a chill pill and don't stress!!!!

Loopy? There are much calmer voices out there with the same agenda:
http://www.newstarget.com/021542.html

--Bryan

In article .com>,
Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:


> Loopy? There are much calmer voices out there with the same agenda:
> http://www.newstarget.com/021542.html


Do you consider, "are you feeding your family poison?" to be a calmer
voice?

I predict based on my experience but absolutely no knowledge, that
within five years it will be "discovered" that trans fats are no more
harmful than other saturated (naturally hydrogenated) fats that they
resemble.

On Oct 18, 6:13 pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article .com>,
> Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:
>
> > Loopy? There are much calmer voices out there with the same agenda:
> >http://www.newstarget.com/021542.html
>
> Do you consider, "are you feeding your family poison?"
> to be a calmer voice?

Calmer than mine. I openly say that I think that the purveyors of the
crap (corporate execs) deserve to be killed in the bloodiest and most
public way, and that I'd personally enjoy being the one to slit their
throats.
>
> I predict based on my experience but absolutely no knowledge, that
> within five years it will be "discovered" that trans fats are no more
> harmful than other saturated (naturally hydrogenated) fats that they
> resemble.

Are you intentionally trying to look stupid? People who predict based
on "absolutely no knowledge" are just talking crap. Do you know what
the prefixes *trans* and *cis* mean? At least get a little knowledge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fats

--Bryan

Cindy Hamilton > wrote in
oups.com:

> On Oct 18, 12:29 pm, blake murphy > wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:48:27 -0700, Cindy Hamilton
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >On Oct 17, 9:43 am, PeterLucas > wrote:
>>
>> >> Cindy........... I was showing Byran that there are *others* out
>> >> there that are just as loopy and obsessed as he is.
>>
>> >> Take a chill pill and don't stress!!!!-
>>
>> >Oh. Sorry. Silly me.
>>
>> >I'll open this here desk drawer and see if I have any chill pills.
>> >I know
>> >I've already eaten today's chocolate ration.
>>
>> >Cindy
>>
>> in america, the chocolate ration has been increased to 20 grams a
>> week.
>
> Oops. I eat something like 30 grams a day. What's that? I think the
> police are breaking the door down to bust me.
>


*RUN AWAY!! RUN AWAY!!!!!!*

Then after all that running, you can have some more chocolate ;-)

Dan Abel > wrote in news:dabel-F643AD.16133118102007@c-61-
68-245-199.per.connect.net.au:

> In article .com>,
> Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:
>
>
>> Loopy? There are much calmer voices out there with the same agenda:
>> http://www.newstarget.com/021542.html
>
>
> Do you consider, "are you feeding your family poison?" to be a calmer
> voice?
>
> I predict based on my experience but absolutely no knowledge, that
> within five years it will be "discovered" that trans fats are no more
> harmful than other saturated (naturally hydrogenated) fats that they
> resemble.
>


Yep. I seem to remember way back when the 'trend' at that time was to say
that milk was bad for you!!!

There's always going to be Chicken Littles in the world running around
screeching about this or that.

The headbanger Bonobo seems to be one of them.

In article .com>,
Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:

> On Oct 18, 6:13 pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> > In article .com>,
> > Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:
> >
> > > Loopy? There are much calmer voices out there with the same agenda:
> > >http://www.newstarget.com/021542.html
> >
> > Do you consider, "are you feeding your family poison?"
> > to be a calmer voice?
>
> Calmer than mine.


> > I predict based on my experience but absolutely no knowledge, that
> > within five years it will be "discovered" that trans fats are no more
> > harmful than other saturated (naturally hydrogenated) fats that they
> > resemble.
>
> Are you intentionally trying to look stupid?

No, I can do that without effort.

> People who predict based
> on "absolutely no knowledge" are just talking crap.

Well, at least you admit it.

> Do you know what
> the prefixes *trans* and *cis* mean? At least get a little knowledge.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fats


A "little" knowledge is right. Wikipedia is notoriously unreliable.
When they include disclaimers for major portions of the article, saying
that they will be whacked out if the authors don't provide reliable
citations, I have to take the article with a grain of salt.

Don't get me wrong. Trans-fats should not be part of a regular diet.
They are at least as bad as other saturated fats, and maybe worse.
Still, I ate a one pound steak a couple of weeks ago, with other
saturated fats. I do this a couple of times a year. That isn't going
to kill me, at least not soon. Still, I minimize my consumption of
saturated fats, including trans-fats. It just isn't healthy. An
occasional use of saturated fats, including trans-fats, won't hurt me if
I consume a smaller portion, or don't indulge very often.

On Oct 19, 2:19 pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article .com>,
> Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 18, 6:13 pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> > > In article .com>,
> > > Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:
>
> > > > Loopy? There are much calmer voices out there with the same agenda:
> > > >http://www.newstarget.com/021542.html
>
> > > Do you consider, "are you feeding your family poison?"
> > > to be a calmer voice?
>
> > Calmer than mine.
> > > I predict based on my experience but absolutely no knowledge, that
> > > within five years it will be "discovered" that trans fats are no more
> > > harmful than other saturated (naturally hydrogenated) fats that they
> > > resemble.
>
> > Are you intentionally trying to look stupid?
>
> No, I can do that without effort.
>
> > People who predict based
> > on "absolutely no knowledge" are just talking crap.
>
> Well, at least you admit it.
>
> > Do you know what
> > the prefixes *trans* and *cis* mean? At least get a little knowledge.
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fats
>
> A "little" knowledge is right. Wikipedia is notoriously unreliable.
> When they include disclaimers for major portions of the article, saying
> that they will be whacked out if the authors don't provide reliable
> citations, I have to take the article with a grain of salt.
>
> Don't get me wrong. Trans-fats should not be part of a regular diet.
> They are at least as bad as other saturated fats, and maybe worse.
> Still, I ate a one pound steak a couple of weeks ago, with other
> saturated fats. I do this a couple of times a year. That isn't going
> to kill me, at least not soon. Still, I minimize my consumption of
> saturated fats, including trans-fats. It just isn't healthy. An
> occasional use of saturated fats, including trans-fats, won't hurt me if
> I consume a smaller portion, or don't indulge very often.

No. They are not "at least as bad as other saturated fats, and maybe
worse." They are WAY, WAY WORSE! What you wrote is what so many
people commonly believe, or at least used to believe. A stick of
butter is probably better for you than a little pat of stick
margarine, and butter is immensely pleasurable.

It is ridiculous that they still allow that crap in food.

--Bryan

One time on Usenet, Dan Abel > said:

> Still, I minimize my consumption of
> saturated fats, including trans-fats. It just isn't healthy. An
> occasional use of saturated fats, including trans-fats, won't hurt me if
> I consume a smaller portion, or don't indulge very often.

Oh my, a voice of reason! Isn't that a sign of the RFC apocalypse..?

--
Jani in WA

In article . com>,
Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:

> On Oct 19, 2:19 pm, Dan Abel > wrote:

> > Don't get me wrong. Trans-fats should not be part of a regular diet.
> > They are at least as bad as other saturated fats, and maybe worse.
> > Still, I ate a one pound steak a couple of weeks ago, with other
> > saturated fats. I do this a couple of times a year. That isn't going
> > to kill me, at least not soon. Still, I minimize my consumption of
> > saturated fats, including trans-fats. It just isn't healthy. An
> > occasional use of saturated fats, including trans-fats, won't hurt me if
> > I consume a smaller portion, or don't indulge very often.
>
> No. They are not "at least as bad as other saturated fats, and maybe
> worse." They are WAY, WAY WORSE! What you wrote is what so many
> people commonly believe, or at least used to believe. A stick of
> butter is probably better for you than a little pat of stick
> margarine, and butter is immensely pleasurable.

I would suggest that you not eat it, then. Besides, margarine tastes
bad. Not a good combination, bad taste and bad for you.

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:13:31 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:

>I predict based on my experience but absolutely no knowledge, that
>within five years it will be "discovered" that trans fats are no more
>harmful than other saturated (naturally hydrogenated) fats that they
>resemble.

Hello Dan,

I think you may already be correct. As a chemistry teacher, I am not
aware of a publication in the peer-reviewed literature that provides
hard data (not opinion) demonstrating that trans-unsaturated fats are
significantly worse for human health than saturated fats.

As I understand it (simplistically), trans-fatty acids have a
molecular shape very similar to saturated fatty acids, so that the
trans-fats mimic saturated fats in biological behavior. (Minor
differences in shape, for the chemically inclined; the bond angle
around the double bond(s) of the trans-fat is 120 degrees rather than
109 degrees.)

But to suggest that trans-fats are *worse* than saturated fats is
another animal altogether. I would be very interested to hear of
references (peer-reviewed and hard copy, not web-based) that (a)
provide a reasonable chemical hypothesis for trans-fats being *worse*
than saturated fats, and (b) describe the experimentation that
supports that hypothesis.

Best -- Terry

On Oct 19, 11:40 pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article . com>,
> Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 19, 2:19 pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> > > Don't get me wrong. Trans-fats should not be part of a regular diet.
> > > They are at least as bad as other saturated fats, and maybe worse.
> > > Still, I ate a one pound steak a couple of weeks ago, with other
> > > saturated fats. I do this a couple of times a year. That isn't going
> > > to kill me, at least not soon. Still, I minimize my consumption of
> > > saturated fats, including trans-fats. It just isn't healthy. An
> > > occasional use of saturated fats, including trans-fats, won't hurt me if
> > > I consume a smaller portion, or don't indulge very often.
>
> > No. They are not "at least as bad as other saturated fats, and maybe
> > worse." They are WAY, WAY WORSE! What you wrote is what so many
> > people commonly believe, or at least used to believe. A stick of
> > butter is probably better for you than a little pat of stick
> > margarine, and butter is immensely pleasurable.
>
> I would suggest that you not eat it, then. Besides, margarine tastes
> bad. Not a good combination, bad taste and bad for you.

My original post had to do with getting the stuff out of my son's
school. Feeding it to children is unconscionable, and my public
health concerns extend way beyond there. I feel pretty much the same
about public smoking, and people exposing children to second hand
smoke. Both issues are moving in the right direction, but absurdly
slowly.

--Bryan
http://www.TheBonobos.com

Michael "Dog3" wrote:
As for the public schools, I'll support a
> healthier diet for kids in the schools. Nutrition is very important to
> kids.
>
> Michael
>

Absolutely if the school is providing the food. But certainly not if the
parents are sending a home packed lunch in with their kids.
I'm not obsessed with fear over the occasional assorted fats (saturated,
trans-fat, whatever) and am kinda tired of the frequent harping about
them here.

"Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote in
.121:

> Bobo Bonobo® > dropped this
> oups.com: in
> rec.food.cooking
>
>> My original post had to do with getting the stuff out of my son's
>> school. Feeding it to children is unconscionable, and my public
>> health concerns extend way beyond there. I feel pretty much the same
>> about public smoking, and people exposing children to second hand
>> smoke. Both issues are moving in the right direction, but absurdly
>> slowly.
>
> The second hand smoke "movement" is completely out of control. I
> agree that smoking should be illegal in public places such as museums,
> government buildings, office buildings etc. OTOH I take strong issue
> with legislation in the works to begin fining people for smoking "in
> their own cars" while they have children inside of the car. I also
> think banning smoking in a bar is ridiculous. Is it good to smoke in
> the car with children on board? Hell no it isn't. Should state
> government be allowed to tell us what we can and can not do in our own
> cars/homes etc.? Hell f*cking no! I will fight this legislation with
> every bit of energy I have. OTOH, if they make cell phones illegal
> EVERYWHERE, I might consider the smoking legislation. As for the
> public schools, I'll support a healthier diet for kids in the schools.
> Nutrition is very important to kids.
>


Ummmmm. Michael......... why do *you* give a shit about the kids
nutrition at school?

You have just stated that you think banning smoking in cars that have
kids in them is total bullshit, but get on your soapbox about 'nutrition
in school'???!!!

If you don't give a rats arse about the kids health in *all* areas of
their lives (and specifically areas that are not under their
control...ie, some scumbag parent sucking the life out of a cancer stick
in a car with young children in it)..... then you *really* have no right
to comment about "healthy diets in the schools".


Your bug up your arse seems to be the fact that the *Government* is
telling you not to do something.

As far as smoking in a bar........... I used to be a 'bouncer'. Worked
in bars all over Australia in the 70's & 80's.
Up till about 18 months ago, every time I went to a bar/club...........
as soon as I got home both myself and the SO had to have a shower, wash
our hair and put the clothes we wore into the wash.

Now.... we don't.

But hey......... if you smoke, and feel offended that you're classed as
a social outcast..... feel free to smoke right next to me.

Just don't be suprised when I stand up on the table and **** on your
head.


If you're a smoker, second hand smoke is a by product of your 'habit'.
It gets into my eyes. onto my body, into my clothes.

So I don't think you should feel offended when I spray you with
urine....... which is a by-product of my 'habit', alcohol.


Agreed?

On Oct 20, 8:20 am, "Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote:
> Bobo Bonobo® > dropped legroups.com:in
> rec.food.cooking
>
> > My original post had to do with getting the stuff out of my son's
> > school. Feeding it to children is unconscionable, and my public
> > health concerns extend way beyond there. I feel pretty much the same
> > about public smoking, and people exposing children to second hand
> > smoke. Both issues are moving in the right direction, but absurdly
> > slowly.
>
> The second hand smoke "movement" is completely out of control. I agree
> that smoking should be illegal in public places such as museums,
> government buildings, office buildings etc. OTOH I take strong issue with
> legislation in the works to begin fining people for smoking "in their own
> cars" while they have children inside of the car. I also think banning
> smoking in a bar is ridiculous. Is it good to smoke in the car with
> children on board? Hell no it isn't. Should state government be allowed
> to tell us what we can and can not do in our own cars/homes etc.? Hell
> f*cking no! I will fight this legislation with every bit of energy I
> have. OTOH, if they make cell phones illegal EVERYWHERE, I might consider
> the smoking legislation.

You smoke? Jeez! Aren't you both all-but-married to a physician, AND
self-described as "really prone to pneumonia"????

I dislike cell phones too, but the only place they really annoy me is
when other motorists use them. The Symphony requires them to be
turned off.

I know it's tough. Nicotine is *so* addictive. Quitting cigarettes
was far more difficult than drastically cutting down on alcohol for
me, and I still occasionally use nicotine gum when I do drink, but
think how much better food will taste.

> As for the public schools, I'll support a
> healthier diet for kids in the schools. Nutrition is very important to
> kids.

Eliminating trans-fats is top of the list. Reducing high glycemic
foods is important too, and the more fresh veggies the better.
Yesterday, my son told me, "Joachin finished his whole school lunch."
Seems that all year, no one has ever done that in any of the
kindergarten classes. "He even ate all his salad," according to
Johnny. This was a big deal to him, and we praised his friend for
having done that.
>
> Michael
>
--Bryan

On Oct 20, 7:44 am, Terry > wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:13:31 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:
> >I predict based on my experience but absolutely no knowledge, that
> >within five years it will be "discovered" that trans fats are no more
> >harmful than other saturated (naturally hydrogenated) fats that they
> >resemble.
>
> Hello Dan,
>
> I think you may already be correct. As a chemistry teacher, I am not
> aware of a publication in the peer-reviewed literature that provides
> hard data (not opinion) demonstrating that trans-unsaturated fats are
> significantly worse for human health than saturated fats.
>
> As I understand it (simplistically), trans-fatty acids have a
> molecular shape very similar to saturated fatty acids, so that the
> trans-fats mimic saturated fats in biological behavior. (Minor
> differences in shape, for the chemically inclined; the bond angle
> around the double bond(s) of the trans-fat is 120 degrees rather than
> 109 degrees.)
>
> But to suggest that trans-fats are *worse* than saturated fats is
> another animal altogether. I would be very interested to hear of
> references (peer-reviewed and hard copy, not web-based) that (a)
> provide a reasonable chemical hypothesis for trans-fats being *worse*
> than saturated fats, and (b) describe the experimentation that
> supports that hypothesis.

I'm at work, on a break (so little time), but here's one very credible
source:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/reviews/transfats.html
>
> Best -- Terry

--Bryan

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 05:58:44 -0700, Bobo Bonobo® >
wrote:

>On Oct 19, 11:40 pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
>> In article . com>,
>> Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:
>>
>> > On Oct 19, 2:19 pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
>> > > Don't get me wrong. Trans-fats should not be part of a regular diet.
>> > > They are at least as bad as other saturated fats, and maybe worse.
>> > > Still, I ate a one pound steak a couple of weeks ago, with other
>> > > saturated fats. I do this a couple of times a year. That isn't going
>> > > to kill me, at least not soon. Still, I minimize my consumption of
>> > > saturated fats, including trans-fats. It just isn't healthy. An
>> > > occasional use of saturated fats, including trans-fats, won't hurt me if
>> > > I consume a smaller portion, or don't indulge very often.
>>
>> > No. They are not "at least as bad as other saturated fats, and maybe
>> > worse." They are WAY, WAY WORSE! What you wrote is what so many
>> > people commonly believe, or at least used to believe. A stick of
>> > butter is probably better for you than a little pat of stick
>> > margarine, and butter is immensely pleasurable.
>>
>> I would suggest that you not eat it, then. Besides, margarine tastes
>> bad. Not a good combination, bad taste and bad for you.
>
>My original post had to do with getting the stuff out of my son's
>school. Feeding it to children is unconscionable, and my public
>health concerns extend way beyond there. I feel pretty much the same
>about public smoking, and people exposing children to second hand
>smoke. Both issues are moving in the right direction, but absurdly
>slowly.
>
>--Bryan
>http://www.TheBonobos.com

you've already expressed your desire to execute the sellers of
trans-fats in as grisly a manner as possible. do you favor the same
treatment for people who smoke in public?

your pal,
blake

On Oct 20, 12:52 pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 05:58:44 -0700, Bobo Bonobo® >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Oct 19, 11:40 pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> >> In article . com>,
> >> Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:
>
> >> > On Oct 19, 2:19 pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> >> > > Don't get me wrong. Trans-fats should not be part of a regular diet.
> >> > > They are at least as bad as other saturated fats, and maybe worse.
> >> > > Still, I ate a one pound steak a couple of weeks ago, with other
> >> > > saturated fats. I do this a couple of times a year. That isn't going
> >> > > to kill me, at least not soon. Still, I minimize my consumption of
> >> > > saturated fats, including trans-fats. It just isn't healthy. An
> >> > > occasional use of saturated fats, including trans-fats, won't hurt me if
> >> > > I consume a smaller portion, or don't indulge very often.
>
> >> > No. They are not "at least as bad as other saturated fats, and maybe
> >> > worse." They are WAY, WAY WORSE! What you wrote is what so many
> >> > people commonly believe, or at least used to believe. A stick of
> >> > butter is probably better for you than a little pat of stick
> >> > margarine, and butter is immensely pleasurable.
>
> >> I would suggest that you not eat it, then. Besides, margarine tastes
> >> bad. Not a good combination, bad taste and bad for you.
>
> >My original post had to do with getting the stuff out of my son's
> >school. Feeding it to children is unconscionable, and my public
> >health concerns extend way beyond there. I feel pretty much the same
> >about public smoking, and people exposing children to second hand
> >smoke. Both issues are moving in the right direction, but absurdly
> >slowly.
>
> >--Bryan
> >http://www.TheBonobos.com
>
> you've already expressed your desire to execute the sellers of
> trans-fats in as grisly a manner as possible. do you favor the same
> treatment for people who smoke in public?

No. I do however, favor it for the tobacco company executives who
participated in cover-ups. Quite a few are still alive, I gather,
since they knew damned well better than to smoke.

People who stink in public ought to be farted next to.
What a nice way to end a sentence with a preposition!
>
> your pal,
> blake

--Bryan

blake murphy wrote:
> you've already expressed your desire to execute the sellers of
> trans-fats in as grisly a manner as possible. do you favor the same
> treatment for people who smoke in public?

That'll be me then <G>

Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The message >
> from "Ophelia" > contains these words:
>
>> blake murphy wrote:
>>> you've already expressed your desire to execute the sellers of
>>> trans-fats in as grisly a manner as possible. do you favor the same
>>> treatment for people who smoke in public?
>
>> That'll be me then <G>
>
> Ophelia lives in Scotland, where smoking is banned in any enclosed
> public place.

Thank you Janet. I don't remember appointing you as my spokeswoman!

On Oct 20, 3:48 pm, "Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote:
> Bobo Bonobo® > dropped legroups.com:in
> rec.food.cooking
>
>
>
> > You smoke?
>
> I used to smoke. I quit. I've picked it up again but don't know for how
> long. I'm a polite smoker.
>
> > Jeez! Aren't you both all-but-married to a physician, AND
> > self-described as "really prone to pneumonia"????

Do you smoke around Steven? I used to sneak off and smoke back in the
mid-90s because I was ashamed to let my wife know I was doing it
again. When she found out she told me that she had been worried that
I was seeing someone else. I am using my experience to try to put a
little shame on you, but my motives are good.
>
> > I dislike cell phones too, but the only place they really annoy me is
> > when other motorists use them. The Symphony requires them to be
> > turned off.
>
> I dislike them in restaurants, movies, waiting rooms... anywhere a high
> pitched voice carries through.
>
You really think that cell phone rings/conversations are worse than
second hand smoke?
>
> > I know it's tough. Nicotine is *so* addictive. Quitting cigarettes
> > was far more difficult than drastically cutting down on alcohol for
> > me, and I still occasionally use nicotine gum when I do drink, but
> > think how much better food will taste.
>
> I've been told nicotine is tougher to kick than heroine. I don't
> remember it being that hard but it was way tough.

You used to be a junkie?!?

And no, I'm not even jokingly going to write, "Kewl."
>
> Michael
>
> >> Michael
>
> > --Bryan

--Bryan

"Michael "Dog3"" > wrote

> I dislike them in restaurants, movies, waiting rooms... anywhere a high
> pitched voice carries through.

Somewhere in Vermont I was amused by a sign on the door of a deli.
I don't recall the exact phrasing they used, but it was strongly worded
Do Not Talk on the Cell Phone in the Store! Not what you expect
to see going into a old fashioned, yet gourmet, deli.

nancy

In article 1>,
"Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote:

> Bobo Bonobo® > dropped this
> oups.com: in
> rec.food.cooking

> > I dislike cell phones too, but the only place they really annoy me is
> > when other motorists use them. The Symphony requires them to be
> > turned off.
>
> I dislike them in restaurants, movies, waiting rooms... anywhere a high
> pitched voice carries through.


I don't have a high pitched voice. Am I OK? A short conversation in a
restaurant or waiting room doesn't bother me. I mean, what *else* do
you have to do in a waiting room, other than to call and say, "the
estimate is one hour. Let's forget lunch.". Same thing in the
restaurant. As for movies, I gave up movie theatres about twenty years
ago. Cell phones didn't even enter in to it. People were just really
rude about everything even before then.

In article >, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

> Janet Baraclough wrote:
> > The message >
> > from "Ophelia" > contains these words:
> >
> >> blake murphy wrote:
> >>> you've already expressed your desire to execute the sellers of
> >>> trans-fats in as grisly a manner as possible. do you favor the same
> >>> treatment for people who smoke in public?
> >
> >> That'll be me then <G>
> >
> > Ophelia lives in Scotland, where smoking is banned in any enclosed
> > public place.
>
> Thank you Janet. I don't remember appointing you as my spokeswoman!

Still, it's nice to know what the laws are. In California, smoking is
banned in all restaurants and almost all bars. Many places ban smoking
within 20 feet of any building.

In article 1>,
"Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote:

> Dan Abel > dropped this news:dabel-CB6FA3.15195520102007
> @c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au: in rec.food.cooking

> > I mean, what *else* do you have to do in a waiting room, other than to
> > call and say, "the estimate is one hour. Let's forget lunch.".
>
> Same thing you did 20 years ago. Read a magazine or bring a book.


And be either a noshow at lunch or an hour late? No sense in that, if
you have a cell phone with you.

> > Same thing in the restaurant.


So you're meeting at the art gallery at 1PM. You just show up an hour
late because the restaurant is behind rather than just calling to
rearrange your schedule?

In article 1>,
"Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote:


> Signs like that are slowly cropping up around here. My doctor's office is
> one of those places. I have yet to see anyone defy the new "no cell
> phones" rule. We'll see.


Depends. Some places claim that cell phones interfere with medical
equipment. More honest places claim that inconsiderate users talk on
their cell phones while the tech/nurse/doctor are trying to talk to
them. I see no reason why a short and to the point cell phone call
should be prohibited in a waiting room.

In article 1>,
"Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote:

> Bobo Bonobo® > dropped this
> oups.com: in
> rec.food.cooking

> > You really think that cell phone rings/conversations are worse than
> > second hand smoke?
>
> To me they are. I find them intensely irritating. I don't want to know
> why the marriage is breaking up, what the kids should wear to school, what
> to pick up on the way home or worse, the local neighborhood gossip.

I just don't understand. If you don't mind these things being discussed
by two or more live people, why should the fact that one is on the phone
bother you? Because you are frustrated that you can't hear the other
side?

Dan Abel wrote:

> Depends. Some places claim that cell phones interfere with medical
> equipment. More honest places claim that inconsiderate users talk on
> their cell phones while the tech/nurse/doctor are trying to talk to
> them. I see no reason why a short and to the point cell phone call
> should be prohibited in a waiting room.

Older cell phones did cause some problems in the past. Improved
technology has taken care of that for the most part.

On Oct 20, 5:07 pm, "Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote:
> Bobo Bonobo® > dropped legroups.com:in
> rec.food.cooking

>
> >> I've been told nicotine is tougher to kick than heroine. I don't
> >> remember it being that hard but it was way tough.
>
> > You used to be a junkie?!?
>
> Gawd no. I meant tobacco silly

I don't often miss when someone sets me up for a joke.
>
> Michael

--Bryan