It's not a phrase I remember from my days at the Comprehensive so
perhaps it's "a two nations separated by the same language" situation.

S

KW wrote:

> Good grief.....do you not remember this phrase from your high school days ?

On Oct 18, 11:16 am, Steve Y > wrote:
> If a dish isn't "interesting", why would you want to bother spend time
> making it ? If all you want is fuel then you make whatever your
> favourite snack is, in my case cheese sarnies, and then carry on what
> you were doing. When I cook I like to feel the time/effort spent has
> been worth it because the finished product is interesting to eat.
>
Have you ever heard of the Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting
times"??
>
> Steve
>
> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> > why does a nice, wholesome dish like you described have to be
> > "interesting"??

--Bryan

"Steve Y" > wrote in message
...
> It's not a phrase I remember from my days at the Comprehensive so
> perhaps it's "a two nations separated by the same language" situation.
>


That being the case, perhaps if you substitute the term "Wank" for the
"Stro" syllable, the phrase will make a little more sense?

Or not, my post may have simply been an ill-conceived attempt at off-color
humor, rife with sexual innuendo based in the American adolescent vernacular
and it lost quite a bit in the translation...sorry :-)

KW

Paraphrasing someone, humour, sorry, humor is in the ear of the beholder

Perhaps it's just one of these things that doesn't translate

S

KW wrote:
> Or not, my post may have simply been an ill-conceived attempt at
off-color
> humor, rife with sexual innuendo based in the American adolescent vernacular
> and it lost quite a bit in the translation...sorry :-)

No, cos that involves pasta and there are few less interesting things on
the planet than pasta, tofu being the only one that comes to mind

S

UC wrote:
> On Oct 17, 1:22 pm, Steve Y > wrote:
>> Just made a batch of perfectly acceptable beef stroganoff for supper but
>> my reaction was as usual, edible but boring. What does it take to make
>> it a dish to rave about ?
>
> Make it into lasagne
>

I used same beef as would be used for a fondue.

Mitch@... wrote:
> What cut of beef should be used for stroganoff?

>I used same beef as would be used for a fondue.

Which is what? Sirloin? Or is chuck good for this if cooked all day
in a slow cooker?

On Oct 18, 3:16 pm, Mitch@... wrote:
> >I used same beef as would be used for a fondue.
>
> Which is what? Sirloin? Or is chuck good for this if cooked all day
> in a slow cooker?

Stroganoff is not supposed to be cooked all day. It's a sautee,
not a braise.

I've seen recommendations for tenderloin and for sirloin.

Cindy Hamilton

On Oct 17, 2:05 pm, Steve Y > wrote:
> So you use stock (bouillon) and mustard to replace the paprika ? Will
> there be enough "kick" ?

Stroganoff doesn't kick. It's beef in a mild, rich, luxurious sauce.

Cindy Hamilton

>I've seen recommendations for tenderloin and for sirloin.

Thanks!

Sorry, I just wander in to the butcher and tell him what I am cooking
and he sorts out the cut for me. One of the advantages of living in
France I suppose.

Steve



Mitch@... wrote:
>> I used same beef as would be used for a fondue.
>
> Which is what? Sirloin? Or is chuck good for this if cooked all day
> in a slow cooker?

>Sorry, I just wander in to the butcher and tell him what I am cooking
>and he sorts out the cut for me. One of the advantages of living in
>France I suppose.

That would be nice. At least I'm not as clueless about the different
cuts as I was a year ago.

I'm going to try cubing a round soon.

On Oct 18, 2:11 pm, Steve Y > wrote:
> No, cos that involves pasta and there are few less interesting things on
> the planet than pasta, tofu being the only one that comes to mind
>
> S
>
> UC wrote:
> > On Oct 17, 1:22 pm, Steve Y > wrote:
> >> Just made a batch of perfectly acceptable beef stroganoff for supper but
> >> my reaction was as usual, edible but boring. What does it take to make
> >> it a dish to rave about ?
>
> > Make it into lasagne

What about the cheese and meat? In fact, leave out anything that is
not normally used in lasagne. Then the beef stroganoff will be tasty
indeed!

On Oct 18, 3:08 pm, Cindy Hamilton >
wrote:
> On Oct 17, 2:05 pm, Steve Y > wrote:
>
> > So you use stock (bouillon) and mustard to replace the paprika ? Will
> > there be enough "kick" ?
>
> Stroganoff doesn't kick. It's beef in a mild, rich, luxurious sauce.

Yes. And as such, it does not have to be "interesting." When I read
the original post, I thought, I wonder how many different ways folks
are going to suggest to screw up the stuff.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

--Bryan

On Oct 17, 3:39 pm, Myrl > wrote:
> On Oct 17, 10:22 am, Steve Y > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Just made a batch of perfectly acceptable beef stroganoff for supper but
> > my reaction was as usual, edible but boring. What does it take to make
> > it a dish to rave about ?
>
> > Recipe I followed was to soften shallots/onions in olive oil, then add
> > sliced mushrooms, leave to soften and then add some lemon juice and
> > leave to one side. Brown strips of beef in pan, add some paprika and the
> > mushroom/onion mix and then some cream. Leave to warm though and then
> > serve over rice.
>
> > It was perfectly edible but boring. I'm not sure whether it is the
> > recipe that is missing something or whether it needs a side dish.
>
> > Any suggestions as to how to add that "je ne sais quoi" welcome
>
> > Steve
>
> > PS Paprika I used was bought in Spain and tin was marked "piquante" and
> > it certainly was !
>
> My recipe is similar - I use white wine rather than lemon juice

Creme fraiche instead of cream, and maybe neither wine nor LJ?

--Bryan

"Bobo Bonobo®" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Oct 18, 3:08 pm, Cindy Hamilton >
> wrote:
>> On Oct 17, 2:05 pm, Steve Y > wrote:
>>
>> > So you use stock (bouillon) and mustard to replace the paprika ? Will
>> > there be enough "kick" ?
>>
>> Stroganoff doesn't kick. It's beef in a mild, rich, luxurious sauce.
>
> Yes. And as such, it does not have to be "interesting." When I read
> the original post, I thought, I wonder how many different ways folks
> are going to suggest to screw up the stuff.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>
> --Bryan

The original poster screwed it up. Cripes! Olive oil? A fear of butter?
Stroganoff is not spaghetti. How can you even call it stroganoff without
sour cream?

Mustard and paprika in stroganoff? These are common variants but not
improvements. Gag!

Mitch

On Oct 17, 1:22 pm, Steve Y > wrote:
> Just made a batch of perfectly acceptable beef stroganoff for supper but
> my reaction was as usual, edible but boring. What does it take to make
> it a dish to rave about ?
>
> Recipe I followed was to soften shallots/onions in olive oil, then add
> sliced mushrooms, leave to soften and then add some lemon juice and
> leave to one side. Brown strips of beef in pan, add some paprika and the
> mushroom/onion mix and then some cream. Leave to warm though and then
> serve over rice.
>
> It was perfectly edible but boring. I'm not sure whether it is the
> recipe that is missing something or whether it needs a side dish.
>
> Any suggestions as to how to add that "je ne sais quoi" welcome
>
> Steve
>
> PS Paprika I used was bought in Spain and tin was marked "piquante" and
> it certainly was !

Take some red wine, rosemary,fresh thyme, peppercorns, and a couple
cloves of garlic. Bring to a boil and simmer for minute. Cool and soak
the raw meat in the liquid for 2 days. It should make the meat really
shine.

Chef Dru

On Oct 18, 7:18 pm, "Mitch Scherer" > wrote:
> "Bobo Bonobo®" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Oct 18, 3:08 pm, Cindy Hamilton >
> > wrote:
> >> On Oct 17, 2:05 pm, Steve Y > wrote:
>
> >> > So you use stock (bouillon) and mustard to replace the paprika ? Will
> >> > there be enough "kick" ?
>
> >> Stroganoff doesn't kick. It's beef in a mild, rich, luxurious sauce.
>
> > Yes. And as such, it does not have to be "interesting." When I read
> > the original post, I thought, I wonder how many different ways folks
> > are going to suggest to screw up the stuff.
>
> >> Cindy Hamilton
>
> > --Bryan
>
> The original poster screwed it up. Cripes! Olive oil? A fear of butter?
> Stroganoff is not spaghetti. How can you even call it stroganoff without
> sour cream?

Creme fraiche or Mexican style crema agria are both much nicer than
regular sour cream. The OP used lemon juice to add the tang. Perhaps
not ideal.
>
> Mustard and paprika in stroganoff? These are common
> variants but not improvements. Gag!

Steve Y did not use mustard, which I would not use either.
I'd also go easy on the paprika, if I used it at all. I thought the
cream thing was weird, but not really bad. There were no bad
ingredients, and no ingredients that went together poorly. Tell you
what I ALWAYS leave out that so many people use is the Lea&Perrins. I
don't even have that stuff in the apartment.
>
> Mitch

--Bryan

On Oct 18, 2:59 pm, Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:

> Creme fraiche instead of cream, and maybe neither wine nor LJ?
>
> --Bryan-


I love it when you talk dirty Bryan;-)

In article >,
Steve Y > wrote:

> No, cos that involves pasta and there are few less interesting things on
> the planet than pasta, tofu being the only one that comes to mind


If you don't have pasta with it, then what's the point? Might as well
skip the whole thing, and go out for pizza.

On Oct 26, 7:04 am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article >,
> Steve Y > wrote:
>
> > No, cos that involves pasta and there are few less interesting things on
> > the planet than pasta, tofu being the only one that comes to mind
>
> If you don't have pasta with it, then what's the point? Might as well
> skip the whole thing, and go out for pizza.

The only way to make BS taste good is to make lasagne.

In article >,
Steve Y > wrote:

> If a dish isn't "interesting", why would you want to bother spend time
> making it ?

If you are spending much time making it, you aren't doing it right. One
of my favorite snacks of the year is going out to my garden, picking a
fresh, ripe tomato from the vine, and eating it. I like to cut it and
put on a little salt, but my daughter eats them whole, without anything.
Stroganoff is similar. Very tender beef, cooked to perfection with a
rich sauce. It is "interesting" in its simplicity.

Dan Abel wrote:
>

> > If a dish isn't "interesting", why would you want to bother spend time
> > making it ?
>
> If you are spending much time making it, you aren't doing it right. One
> of my favorite snacks of the year is going out to my garden, picking a
> fresh, ripe tomato from the vine, and eating it. I like to cut it and
> put on a little salt, but my daughter eats them whole, without anything.
> Stroganoff is similar. Very tender beef, cooked to perfection with a
> rich sauce. It is "interesting" in its simplicity.


My mother used to make beef Stroganoff frequently and it always took hours.
I was thinking of making it one time and looked up a recipe online and it
was a very quick. As I recall, the beef, onion and mushrooms were sautéed
and sour cream added and voila.... it was ready to eat. It was delicious.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Abel wrote:
>>
>
>> > If a dish isn't "interesting", why would you want to bother spend time
>> > making it ?
>>
>> If you are spending much time making it, you aren't doing it right. One
>> of my favorite snacks of the year is going out to my garden, picking a
>> fresh, ripe tomato from the vine, and eating it. I like to cut it and
>> put on a little salt, but my daughter eats them whole, without anything.
>> Stroganoff is similar. Very tender beef, cooked to perfection with a
>> rich sauce. It is "interesting" in its simplicity.
>
>
> My mother used to make beef Stroganoff frequently and it always took
> hours.
> I was thinking of making it one time and looked up a recipe online and it
> was a very quick. As I recall, the beef, onion and mushrooms were sautéed
> and sour cream added and voila.... it was ready to eat. It was delicious.

That's pretty much it. You can add a lot of stuff and make it less and less
like stroganoff. I think the simple stroganoff tastes great. It's a
classic dish - for a reason.

Mitch

Not a single person has mentioned nutmeg... what the heck?? Beef
stoghanoff is dead without nutmeg. And: white wine, beef broth, salt,
pepper, white mushrooms, onion, butter (in with the canola to cook the
beef) and DEFINITELY sour cream! Over egg noodles....

In article >,
Steve Y > wrote:

> Recipe I followed was to soften shallots/onions in olive oil, then add
> sliced mushrooms, leave to soften and then add some lemon juice and
> leave to one side. Brown strips of beef in pan, add some paprika and the
> mushroom/onion mix and then some cream. Leave to warm though and then
> serve over rice.
>
> It was perfectly edible but boring. I'm not sure whether it is the
> recipe that is missing something or whether it needs a side dish.
>
> Any suggestions as to how to add that "je ne sais quoi" welcome

There are lots of variations on this dish - I don't know which version
(if any) is "authentic". My version is close to what you described,
except I use sour cream, and serve it over wide egg noodles. Maybe a
tiny splash of Worcestershire sauce.

If you like Stroganoff you might like Königsberger Klopse, German
meatballs in sauce, also good over noodles. Made with capers,
anchovies, lemon juice, onions. More tart and complex than Stroganoff.

--
Julian Vrieslander

Oh pshaw, on Sat 27 Oct 2007 01:48:03a, Julian Vrieslander meant to say...

> In article >,
> Steve Y > wrote:
>
>> Recipe I followed was to soften shallots/onions in olive oil, then add
>> sliced mushrooms, leave to soften and then add some lemon juice and
>> leave to one side. Brown strips of beef in pan, add some paprika and
>> the mushroom/onion mix and then some cream. Leave to warm though and
>> then serve over rice.
>>
>> It was perfectly edible but boring. I'm not sure whether it is the
>> recipe that is missing something or whether it needs a side dish.
>>
>> Any suggestions as to how to add that "je ne sais quoi" welcome
>
> There are lots of variations on this dish - I don't know which version
> (if any) is "authentic". My version is close to what you described,
> except I use sour cream, and serve it over wide egg noodles. Maybe a
> tiny splash of Worcestershire sauce.
>
> If you like Stroganoff you might like Königsberger Klopse, German
> meatballs in sauce, also good over noodles. Made with capers,
> anchovies, lemon juice, onions. More tart and complex than Stroganoff.
>

Does this recipe sound reasonable, Julian? I have made it several times
and thought it quite tasty.

Meatballs
1 lb ground sirloin
1 lb ground pork
1 lb ground veal
4 eggs, slightly beaten
1 1/4 cups fine plain breadcrumbs (I use Progresso
breadcrumbs(grandmother used a ground up hard roll) 1/2 cup milk
1 medium white onion, finely chopped
1 small lemon, zest of, finely chopped
1 lemon, juice of
3 tablespoons capers, chopped
3 tablespoons anchovy paste or crushed anchovy fillets
1/4 cup melted butter
1 teaspoon kosher salt
1/2 teaspoon ground black pepper
flour (for rolling)
Broth
1 (32 ounce) box chicken stock
1 bay leaf
1/4 cup cider vinegar
1/2 cup good quality dry white wine (I use fume blanc or extra dry
champagne) 10 black peppercorns
2 tablespoons capers
Sauce
1 small lemon, zest of, finely chopped
1 lemon, juice of
1 cup good quality sour cream

In large wide pan (a wok works great), heat broth ingredients to simmer.
Combine meatball ingredients, mix well.
Form into 1 inch balls, roll in flour and carefully place into hot broth,
simmer each batch for 15 minutes (important: only cook about 10-12
meatballs at a time, removing with a slotted spoon and keeping warm in a
covered bowl stored in the oven). Note that broth will thicken as you add
the flour covered meatballs. Remove the cooked meatballs and bay leaf
(discard bayleaf) from broth. To hot broth stir in the sauce ingredients
and heat through, but do not boil. Add the cooked meatballs to the heated
sauce, stir gently and serve immediately.

--
Wayne Boatwright
__________________________________________________

I have a rock garden, but three of them died last week.

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> Dan Abel wrote:

> > If you are spending much time making it, you aren't doing it right


> My mother used to make beef Stroganoff frequently and it always took hours.
> I was thinking of making it one time and looked up a recipe online and it
> was a very quick. As I recall, the beef, onion and mushrooms were sautéed
> and sour cream added and voila.... it was ready to eat. It was delicious.

There is a very good dish called "boeuf bourguignon". It is a stew made
with beef and red wine. It takes hours, as you use a cheap, tough and
flavorful cut of beef. I suspect that some people are getting these
confused.

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:08:24 -0700, mom0f4boys >
wrote:

>Not a single person has mentioned nutmeg... what the heck?? Beef
>stoghanoff is dead without nutmeg.

Perish the thought of nutmeg. Ick! IMO: any meat gravy is dead in
the water if it doesn't have a couple drops of L&P worcestershire
sauce in it.

>And: white wine, beef broth, salt,
>pepper, white mushrooms, onion, butter (in with the canola to cook the
>beef) and DEFINITELY sour cream! Over egg noodles....
>
Wine isn't an absolutely necessary ingredient, but change the white to
red and it's more appropriate.

Other than those two minor points, and I have no disagreement with
your opinion.

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first

In article
>,
Dan Abel > wrote:

> There is a very good dish called "boeuf bourguignon". It is a stew made
> with beef and red wine. It takes hours, as you use a cheap, tough and
> flavorful cut of beef. I suspect that some people are getting these
> confused.

The only similarity in my mind is that both dishes involve meat and
sauce. Bourguignon is stewed in wine.

Stroganoff, Swedish meatballs, and klopse are based on cream or white
sauces. White wine might be added, but that's probably not the key
ingredient. In honor of Moosemeat, we should include S.O.S. as the
institutional/military variant in this category.

My favorite stew is Beef Daube (or Boeuf en Daube, if you want to sound
like Garrison Keillor). It's another variant on the stew with red wine
theme. I'm not an expert on French culinary history, but I think that
daubes are from the south (Provence) and bourguignon is from Burgundy.

--
Julian Vrieslander

In article 4>,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> > If you like Stroganoff you might like Königsberger Klopse, German
> > meatballs in sauce, also good over noodles. Made with capers,
> > anchovies, lemon juice, onions. More tart and complex than Stroganoff.
> >
>
> Does this recipe sound reasonable, Julian? I have made it several times
> and thought it quite tasty.

[ recipe redacted ]

I don't have our recipe in front of me (it's in Cindy's files). But the
ingredients in your version seem to be roughly the same.

Klopse is one of my favorite dinners. I'm surprised it's not more
popular in the US.

--
Julian Vrieslander

Oh pshaw, on Sat 27 Oct 2007 02:02:12p, Julian Vrieslander meant to say...

> In article 4>,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> > If you like Stroganoff you might like Königsberger Klopse, German
>> > meatballs in sauce, also good over noodles. Made with capers,
>> > anchovies, lemon juice, onions. More tart and complex than
>> > Stroganoff.
>> >
>>
>> Does this recipe sound reasonable, Julian? I have made it several times
>> and thought it quite tasty.
>
> [ recipe redacted ]
>
> I don't have our recipe in front of me (it's in Cindy's files). But the
> ingredients in your version seem to be roughly the same.
>
> Klopse is one of my favorite dinners. I'm surprised it's not more
> popular in the US.
>

Thanks. Yes, it's a very tasty dish. I think in the US most people think
of either Italian or Swedish meatballs, and they'res most often seen in
restaurants.

There was a German restaurant in CLeveland that served Königsberger Klopse
and I always enjoyed it. Their cooking was as authentic as any I've had.

--
Wayne Boatwright
__________________________________________________

I have a rock garden, but three of them died last week.

Julian Vrieslander > wrote:

> There are lots of variations on this dish - I don't know which version
> (if any) is "authentic".

I posted one upthread ten days ago.

> If you like Stroganoff you might like Königsberger Klopse, German
> meatballs in sauce, also good over noodles. Made with capers,
> anchovies, lemon juice, onions. More tart and complex than Stroganoff.

Apart from the use of sour cream and flour, there is absolutely nothing
that makes Königsberger Klopse similar to Beef Stroganoff, neither the
ingredients, meat included, nor the method of preparation. The whole
idea of comparing the two dishes is bordering on preposterous.

Victor

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:

> Julian Vrieslander > wrote:

> > If you like Stroganoff you might like Königsberger Klopse, German
> > meatballs in sauce, also good over noodles. Made with capers,
> > anchovies, lemon juice, onions. More tart and complex than Stroganoff.
>
> Apart from the use of sour cream and flour, there is absolutely nothing
> that makes Königsberger Klopse similar to Beef Stroganoff, neither the
> ingredients, meat included, nor the method of preparation. The whole
> idea of comparing the two dishes is bordering on preposterous.


They both go well over noodles. What could be more similar than that?

:-)

As you can guess, I love noodles, but not so much just plain.