I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
jogging and competitive running.

It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and their
knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of heart
attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year old Ryan
Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for the Beijing
Olympics.

On Nov 3, 11:56 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
> I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
> playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
> jogging and competitive running.
>
> It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and their
> knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of heart
> attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year old Ryan
> Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for the Beijing
> Olympics.


I just saw that on the news. . .Unbelievable! I'm into fitness, but
I'm not a runner. Instead I swim a couple of miles, 4 - 5 times a
week. Much easier on the joints and knees.

It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top notch
runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:03:33 -0000, Myrl Jeffcoat
> wrote:

>On Nov 3, 11:56 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
>> I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
>> playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
>> jogging and competitive running.
>>
>> It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and their
>> knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of heart
>> attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year old Ryan
>> Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for the Beijing
>> Olympics.
>
>
>I just saw that on the news. . .Unbelievable! I'm into fitness, but
>I'm not a runner. Instead I swim a couple of miles, 4 - 5 times a
>week. Much easier on the joints and knees.
>
>It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top notch
>runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.
>
>
>
The most common in cause in cases such as this is congenital heart
defect, such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, or a cardiac electrical
problem.

Boron.

Myrl Jeffcoat wrote:
>
> > It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and their
> > knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of heart
> > attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year old Ryan
> > Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for the Beijing
> > Olympics.
>
> I just saw that on the news. . .Unbelievable! I'm into fitness, but
> I'm not a runner. Instead I swim a couple of miles, 4 - 5 times a
> week. Much easier on the joints and knees.
>
> It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top notch
> runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.

It's a damned shame. Runners obviously work hard to keep in shape. Last
year I was doing a lot of swimming, usually 5 days a week, 1500 m three
times a week and 1000 m in between. I had a couple of problems with
swimming. First of all, it's boring as hell. The other problem was having
to share the lanes in the pool at the local Y with imbeciles who think they
deserve to be in the fast lane. I would rate myself as medium speed, though
I am usually the fastest there. Then there is the time limitations for
lane swimming. So I started walking on the track instead and then working
on the wight machines. As soon as the weather warmed up in the spring I
started bicycling, which was a lot less boring. I was cycling 10-15 miles
per day. It was a much better way to lose weight, and I needed to lose
weight for the sake of the horses I ride, since my primary fitness activity
is equestrian jumping.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
> playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
> jogging and competitive running.
>
> It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and their
> knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of heart
> attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year old Ryan
> Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for the Beijing
> Olympics.

I read someplace that runners who push into that kind of territory are
actually stressing their bodies to the levels seen in concentration camp
victims from WWII. A life in a wheel chair or crutches is hardly testimony
to the "fitness" effects of running. The few runners I have known have all
been intensely obsessed people and often have pretty serious personal issues
that somehow the running is supposed to compensate.

Take up bike riding or swimming. Swimming I have heard is supposed to be a
perfect exercise.

Paul

Oh pshaw, on Sat 03 Nov 2007 01:37:54p, Paul M. Cook meant to say...

>
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
>> playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
>> jogging and competitive running.
>>
>> It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and
>> their knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of heart
>> attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year old Ryan
>> Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for the Beijing
>> Olympics.
>
> I read someplace that runners who push into that kind of territory are
> actually stressing their bodies to the levels seen in concentration camp
> victims from WWII. A life in a wheel chair or crutches is hardly
> testimony to the "fitness" effects of running. The few runners I have
> known have all been intensely obsessed people and often have pretty
> serious personal issues that somehow the running is supposed to
> compensate.
>
> Take up bike riding or swimming. Swimming I have heard is supposed to
> be a perfect exercise.
>
> Paul
>
>
>

My boss participates in Iron Man competitions as frequently as he can, and
usually places fairly high. He usually takes a couple of vacation days
after the competition, but he still looks like he's been through hell when
he get back to work.

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
__________________________________________________ ____________

It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
> playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
> jogging and competitive running.
>
> It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and their
> knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of heart
> attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year old Ryan
> Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for the Beijing
> Olympics.

While sudden cardiac death in young athletes always makes headlines,
it's actually pretty rare. A guy I know wanted to set up a testing
program for this in the Washington state public schools. When I
crunched a few numbers for him, I came up with a very puny number of
potential cases for a huge number of expensive tests (EKG's). I don't
mean to discount saving one child's life, but the numbers weren't there
to justify the research and the expense when schools have trouble
getting enough money for their core mission. (No, football is NOT the
core mission.)

OB Food: I have boneless leg of lamb in the fridge. I need to figure
out what to do with it.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

In article .com>,
Myrl Jeffcoat > wrote:

> On Nov 3, 11:56 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
> > I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
> > playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
> > jogging and competitive running.
> >
> > It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and their
> > knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of heart
> > attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year old Ryan
> > Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for the Beijing
> > Olympics.
>
>
> I just saw that on the news. . .Unbelievable! I'm into fitness, but
> I'm not a runner. Instead I swim a couple of miles, 4 - 5 times a
> week. Much easier on the joints and knees.
>
> It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top notch
> runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.

Some very fit young people die of undiagnosed heart problems. Happened
to one young friend-of-a-friend -- 26 years old, very fit. Came home
from playing rugby, had a shower, got a beer out of the fridge, then sat
down to watch another rugby game on TV... and died.

It's very sad.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

In article <C_4Xi.1187$b%1.47@trnddc01>,
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote:

> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
> > playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
> > jogging and competitive running.
> >
> > It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and their
> > knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of heart
> > attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year old Ryan
> > Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for the Beijing
> > Olympics.
>
> I read someplace that runners who push into that kind of territory are
> actually stressing their bodies to the levels seen in concentration camp
> victims from WWII. A life in a wheel chair or crutches is hardly testimony
> to the "fitness" effects of running. The few runners I have known have all
> been intensely obsessed people and often have pretty serious personal issues
> that somehow the running is supposed to compensate.
>
> Take up bike riding or swimming. Swimming I have heard is supposed to be a
> perfect exercise.

Swimming's pretty good, but you also need something weight-bearing to
keep bone mass. Walking is good.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

> OB Food: I have boneless leg of lamb in the fridge. I need to figure
> out what to do with it.


I would cook it.

OK, ok ....

I would butterfly it, pound it flat then add a layer of prosciutto, pine
nuts, fresh sage, garlic, olive oil, parmesan slivers. Roll it up, tie it,
brown it in a pan then into the oven at 350 for 20 minutes per pound.

Paul

jmcquown said...

> Boron Elgar wrote:
>> On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:03:33 -0000, Myrl Jeffcoat
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 3, 11:56 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
>>>> I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
>>>> playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
>>>> jogging and competitive running.
>>>>
>>>> It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and
>>>> their knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of
>>>> heart attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year
>>>> old Ryan Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for
>>>> the Beijing Olympics.
>>>
>>>
>>> I just saw that on the news. . .Unbelievable! I'm into fitness, but
>>> I'm not a runner. Instead I swim a couple of miles, 4 - 5 times a
>>> week. Much easier on the joints and knees.
>>>
>>> It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top notch
>>> runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> The most common in cause in cases such as this is congenital heart
>> defect, such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, or a cardiac electrical
>> problem.
>>
>> Boron.
>
> I agree, this is sad. But shouldn't people who plan to compete in
Olympic
> (or heck, any professional) events be thoroughly examined by a physician
> first?
>
> Jill
>
>
>

jmcquown wrote:
>
> Boron Elgar wrote:
> > On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:03:33 -0000, Myrl Jeffcoat
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On Nov 3, 11:56 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
> >>> I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
> >>> playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
> >>> jogging and competitive running.
> >>>
> >>> It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and
> >>> their knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of
> >>> heart attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year
> >>> old Ryan Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for
> >>> the Beijing Olympics.
> >>
> >>
> >> I just saw that on the news. . .Unbelievable! I'm into fitness, but
> >> I'm not a runner. Instead I swim a couple of miles, 4 - 5 times a
> >> week. Much easier on the joints and knees.
> >>
> >> It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top notch
> >> runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > The most common in cause in cases such as this is congenital heart
> > defect, such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, or a cardiac electrical
> > problem.
> >
> > Boron.
>
> I agree, this is sad. But shouldn't people who plan to compete in Olympic
> (or heck, any professional) events be thoroughly examined by a physician
> first?
>
> Jill

Have had any number of 'thorough' exams when I was doing competitive
swimming. But *none* of them included an ECG. If someone's insurance
won't pay, it doesn't happen.

Boron Elgar wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:03:33 -0000, Myrl Jeffcoat
> > wrote:
>
>> On Nov 3, 11:56 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
>>> I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
>>> playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
>>> jogging and competitive running.
>>>
>>> It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and
>>> their knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of
>>> heart attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year
>>> old Ryan Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for
>>> the Beijing Olympics.
>>
>>
>> I just saw that on the news. . .Unbelievable! I'm into fitness, but
>> I'm not a runner. Instead I swim a couple of miles, 4 - 5 times a
>> week. Much easier on the joints and knees.
>>
>> It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top notch
>> runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.
>>
>>
>>
> The most common in cause in cases such as this is congenital heart
> defect, such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, or a cardiac electrical
> problem.
>
> Boron.

I agree, this is sad. But shouldn't people who plan to compete in Olympic
(or heck, any professional) events be thoroughly examined by a physician
first?

Jill

On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:23:28 -0600, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

>Boron Elgar wrote:
>> On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:03:33 -0000, Myrl Jeffcoat
>> > wrote:

>>> It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top notch
>>> runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> The most common in cause in cases such as this is congenital heart
>> defect, such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, or a cardiac electrical
>> problem.
>>
>> Boron.
>
>I agree, this is sad. But shouldn't people who plan to compete in Olympic
>(or heck, any professional) events be thoroughly examined by a physician
>first?
>
>Jill

That sort of thing is rarely looked for in a young and healthy
athlete. Some problems can be detected ahead of time, some not, with
the usual testing.

The incidence is quite low, so the testing isn't cost effective. That
isn't to sound cold, just practical.

Boron

On Nov 3, 1:03?pm, Myrl Jeffcoat > wrote:
> On Nov 3, 11:56 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
> > I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
> > playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
> > jogging and competitive running.
>
> > It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and their
> > knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of heart
> > attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year oldRyan
> >Shaydied 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for the Beijing
> > Olympics.
>
> I just saw that on the news. . .Unbelievable! I'm into fitness, but
> I'm not a runner. Instead I swim a couple of miles, 4 - 5 times a
> week. Much easier on the joints and knees.
>
> It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top notch
> runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.

Yeah, this guy has been running marathons and various other distance
races for years. You'd think if he had a heart defect, it would've
surfaced at some point in the past. Of course, I did know a guy who
was born with Marfan's Syndrome and did quite a bit of drinking and
used drugs during his teen years.(Yes, he was aware of his heart
condition then) He died of a massive heart attack at the age of 23
while simply sitting and eating dinner with his girlfriend.

But I'm wondering if Shay maybe was taking supplements of some kind
for an energy boost and to give him an edge...not steroids, since I
doubt that helps in a marathon, but maybe something with ginseng or
ephedra or something along those lines. He could've overdosed or
tried something new and was allergic. Whatever it was, as a 36 year
old who just started seriously running about 6 months ago, it kinda
makes me think...what if I have an underlying heart condition and my
life suddenly ends during one of my 3 or 4 mile runs.

Of course, I had a friend who got killed by a drunk driver a few years
ago while she was just sitting in her car off the side of the road
while somebody went to get gas. And my cousin's life ended instantly
back in February when her four-wheeler flipped over on top of
her...which is sort of the reason why I'm still running. I guess we
just have to live our life and whatever's gonna happen is gonna
happen. Yeah, really deep, I know. lol Well for me it is. Anyway
that's enough of my rambling. I didn't mean to turn it into a therapy
session for myself...R.I.P. Emily, Lisa, & Ryan Shay.

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> Boron Elgar wrote:
>> > On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:03:33 -0000, Myrl Jeffcoat
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Nov 3, 11:56 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
>> >>> I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
>> >>> playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
>> >>> jogging and competitive running.
>> >>>
>> >>> It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and
>> >>> their knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of
>> >>> heart attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year
>> >>> old Ryan Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for
>> >>> the Beijing Olympics.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I just saw that on the news. . .Unbelievable! I'm into fitness, but
>> >> I'm not a runner. Instead I swim a couple of miles, 4 - 5 times a
>> >> week. Much easier on the joints and knees.
>> >>
>> >> It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top notch
>> >> runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > The most common in cause in cases such as this is congenital heart
>> > defect, such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, or a cardiac electrical
>> > problem.
>> >
>> > Boron.
>>
>> I agree, this is sad. But shouldn't people who plan to compete in
>> Olympic
>> (or heck, any professional) events be thoroughly examined by a physician
>> first?
>>
>> Jill
>
> Have had any number of 'thorough' exams when I was doing competitive
> swimming. But *none* of them included an ECG. If someone's insurance
> won't pay, it doesn't happen.

with some types of heart conduction (electrical) problems, you won't see any
changes on an ECG unless the problem is actually happening at that time

so if he's asymptomatic at the time of testing, then he's "normal and
healthy"

Oh pshaw, on Sun 04 Nov 2007 06:50:21a, MG meant to say...

>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>> Boron Elgar wrote:
>>> > On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:03:33 -0000, Myrl Jeffcoat
>>> > > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Nov 3, 11:56 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
>>> >>> I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes
>>> >>> while playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never
>>> >>> understood jogging and competitive running.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and
>>> >>> their knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of
>>> >>> heart attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year
>>> >>> old Ryan Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race
>>> >>> for the Beijing Olympics.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I just saw that on the news. . .Unbelievable! I'm into fitness,
>>> >> but I'm not a runner. Instead I swim a couple of miles, 4 - 5
>>> >> times a week. Much easier on the joints and knees.
>>> >>
>>> >> It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top
>>> >> notch runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> > The most common in cause in cases such as this is congenital heart
>>> > defect, such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, or a cardiac electrical
>>> > problem.
>>> >
>>> > Boron.
>>>
>>> I agree, this is sad. But shouldn't people who plan to compete in
>>> Olympic
>>> (or heck, any professional) events be thoroughly examined by a
>>> physician first?
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> Have had any number of 'thorough' exams when I was doing competitive
>> swimming. But *none* of them included an ECG. If someone's insurance
>> won't pay, it doesn't happen.
>
> with some types of heart conduction (electrical) problems, you won't see
> any changes on an ECG unless the problem is actually happening at that
> time
>
> so if he's asymptomatic at the time of testing, then he's "normal and
> healthy"
>
>
>

ECGs or EKGs are of relative limited use unless there's a cardiac event
occurring at that very moment.

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
__________________________________________________ ____________

It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 00:29:01 -0700, SkinnyBilly >
wrote:

>On Nov 3, 1:03?pm, Myrl Jeffcoat > wrote:
>> On Nov 3, 11:56 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
>>
>> > I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
>> > playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
>> > jogging and competitive running.
>>
>> > It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and their
>> > knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of heart
>> > attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year oldRyan
>> >Shaydied 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for the Beijing
>> > Olympics.
>>
>> I just saw that on the news. . .Unbelievable! I'm into fitness, but
>> I'm not a runner. Instead I swim a couple of miles, 4 - 5 times a
>> week. Much easier on the joints and knees.
>>
>> It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top notch
>> runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.

Remember Jim Fix(x?)? In the 70's. He was a real and early guru of
running and claimed he wanted to run to keep fit because his father
died so early. Then Jim, IIRC, died fairly early and cynics said
"See, running kills you." Jim would have disagreed. He lived longer
than his father and certainly, healthier and happier.

Just as Wayne has described, unless you are having an "event" during
testing, you can appear normal. Figure 10% or less of the general
population runs regularly. The vast majority feel healthier, are
healthier, feel empowered and love it. IMHO running does the most for
your head.

The extremely rare stories of runners dying claim headlines now days,
as opposed to what running can do for you. Gads, I can't calculate
the percentage of runners who die, but it is miniscule and I doubt any
would want you to be discouraged about taking up running.

OT My DIL is right now, running her first Marathon in Springfield, MO
and I wish her so much luck but told her, to finish is to win.

aloha,
Cea
roast beans to kona to email
farmers of Pure Kona

"The Kat" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 14:56:56 -0400, Dave Smith >
> wrote:
>
>>I never liked running.
>
> WHAT the **** does THAT have to do with cooking??
>
>
>


Calories, man!, Calories.
Dee Dee

In article <mb6Xi.1522$Zz.143@trnddc07>,
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote:

> > OB Food: I have boneless leg of lamb in the fridge. I need to figure
> > out what to do with it.
>
>
> I would cook it.
>
> OK, ok ....
>
> I would butterfly it, pound it flat then add a layer of prosciutto, pine
> nuts, fresh sage, garlic, olive oil, parmesan slivers. Roll it up, tie it,
> brown it in a pan then into the oven at 350 for 20 minutes per pound.
>
> Paul

I wound up making lamb smothered with onions from Julie Sahni's Classic
Indian Cooking. I had all of the ingredients on hand. I accompanied it
with some [DON'T READ THIS, BARB!] beets that had been tossed with brown
mustard seed.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

Cindy Fuller wrote:

> I wound up making lamb smothered with onions from Julie Sahni's Classic
> Indian Cooking. I had all of the ingredients on hand. I accompanied it
> with some [DON'T READ THIS, BARB!] beets that had been tossed with brown
> mustard seed.
>
> Cindy
>
Sounds good to me! Do you have any more of a "recipe" for those beets? I
love 'em dearly and would be interested in trying something new.

MG wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > jmcquown wrote:
> >>
> >> Boron Elgar wrote:
> >> > On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:03:33 -0000, Myrl Jeffcoat
> >> > > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Nov 3, 11:56 am, Dave Smith > wrote:
> >> >>> I never liked running. It wasn't too bad to make short dashes while
> >> >>> playing kids games, or baseball and football, but I never understood
> >> >>> jogging and competitive running.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It was bad enough to hear about people screwing up their shins and
> >> >>> their knees from running, or those older joggers who drop dead of
> >> >>> heart attacks while out running for fitness. This morning 28 year
> >> >>> old Ryan Shay died 5 1/2 miles into a 26.2 mile qualifying race for
> >> >>> the Beijing Olympics.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I just saw that on the news. . .Unbelievable! I'm into fitness, but
> >> >> I'm not a runner. Instead I swim a couple of miles, 4 - 5 times a
> >> >> week. Much easier on the joints and knees.
> >> >>
> >> >> It will be interesting to see what caused this 28 year old top notch
> >> >> runner to die, 5 1/2 miles into the race.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > The most common in cause in cases such as this is congenital heart
> >> > defect, such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, or a cardiac electrical
> >> > problem.
> >> >
> >> > Boron.
> >>
> >> I agree, this is sad. But shouldn't people who plan to compete in
> >> Olympic
> >> (or heck, any professional) events be thoroughly examined by a physician
> >> first?
> >>
> >> Jill
> >
> > Have had any number of 'thorough' exams when I was doing competitive
> > swimming. But *none* of them included an ECG. If someone's insurance
> > won't pay, it doesn't happen.
>
> with some types of heart conduction (electrical) problems, you won't see any
> changes on an ECG unless the problem is actually happening at that time
>
> so if he's asymptomatic at the time of testing, then he's "normal and
> healthy"

That of course is true. We had a man die (heart attack) on our campus
just minutes after he apparently had been tested by his cardiologist in
the University hospital across the street.

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
> That of course is true. We had a man die (heart attack) on our campus
> just minutes after he apparently had been tested by his cardiologist in
> the University hospital across the street.


I don't doubt your word, but my question is: had someone read the test as it
was being tested, and read the report.
Reports are not immediately available and one would hope that the person
administering the test was competent to read it as he was administering it.

Maybe not these different things were not coordinated before the man walked
to the other side of the street.

Just musing, and thinking about a couple of my previous tests.
Dee Dee

Arri London wrote:
\
> Had my first and so far only ECG before surgery in May. Few days later
> had a post-surgical cardiac ultrasound. Have experienced stress-induced
> arrhythmias for a few years now, but they always go away when I'm
> relaxed. No one suggested seeing a cardiologist so assuming they still
> aren't considered a problem and no one mentioned any difficulties when
> seeking consent for the surgery from my mother (I was out of it at the
> time).

If you only just had the first ECG in May, how do you know you've had
arrhythmias for a few years now?
Did the ECG or ECHO show any problems?

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:54:17 -0700, Arri London >
wrote:


>That of course is true. We had a man die (heart attack) on our campus
>just minutes after he apparently had been tested by his cardiologist in
>the University hospital across the street.


I had a doctor tell me that for an impressive percentage of heart
attacks, the first indication that anything is awry is the wake.

Boron

"Dee.Dee" wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > That of course is true. We had a man die (heart attack) on our campus
> > just minutes after he apparently had been tested by his cardiologist in
> > the University hospital across the street.
>
> I don't doubt your word, but my question is: had someone read the test as it
> was being tested, and read the report.
> Reports are not immediately available and one would hope that the person
> administering the test was competent to read it as he was administering it.
>
> Maybe not these different things were not coordinated before the man walked
> to the other side of the street.
>
> Just musing, and thinking about a couple of my previous tests.
> Dee Dee

Couldn't say as to that. Only saw the poor chap being carted away. Would
have thought anything that looked terribly out of place would have been
mentioned to someone on the spot.

Had my first and so far only ECG before surgery in May. Few days later
had a post-surgical cardiac ultrasound. Have experienced stress-induced
arrhythmias for a few years now, but they always go away when I'm
relaxed. No one suggested seeing a cardiologist so assuming they still
aren't considered a problem and no one mentioned any difficulties when
seeking consent for the surgery from my mother (I was out of it at the
time).

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Dee.Dee" wrote:
>>
>> "Arri London" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > That of course is true. We had a man die (heart attack) on our campus
>> > just minutes after he apparently had been tested by his cardiologist in
>> > the University hospital across the street.
>>
>> I don't doubt your word, but my question is: had someone read the test as
>> it
>> was being tested, and read the report.
>> Reports are not immediately available and one would hope that the person
>> administering the test was competent to read it as he was administering
>> it.
>>
>> Maybe not these different things were not coordinated before the man
>> walked
>> to the other side of the street.
>>
>> Just musing, and thinking about a couple of my previous tests.
>> Dee Dee
>
> Couldn't say as to that. Only saw the poor chap being carted away. Would
> have thought anything that looked terribly out of place would have been
> mentioned to someone on the spot.
>
> Had my first and so far only ECG before surgery in May. Few days later
> had a post-surgical cardiac ultrasound. Have experienced stress-induced
> arrhythmias for a few years now, but they always go away when I'm
> relaxed. No one suggested seeing a cardiologist so assuming they still
> aren't considered a problem and no one mentioned any difficulties when
> seeking consent for the surgery from my mother (I was out of it at the
> time).


Gee, I had a ECG (not a stress test) before a colonoscopy this year. I was
amazed that they they would be this common. Perhaps my age, I don't know.

If it were me, I would see a doctor who would address arrhythmia, if I ever
had any inkling.
or
Hey, don't ever get stressed if you can't find a chair to relax! Or do you
use meditation to relax!

Have you done your research on arrhythmia?
Dee Dee

Arri London > wrote:

>Goomba38 wrote:

>> If you only just had the first ECG in May, how do you know you've had
>> arrhythmias for a few years now?
>> Did the ECG or ECHO show any problems?

>LOL can feel the arrhythmias, as in 'missed/skipped' heartbeats! Started
>right after my mother was carted off to the ER, then they went away.
>Asked doc about it; got listened to and questioned (no other symptoms)
>etc. Next time my mother got carted off to the ER, they came back and
>disappeared eventually. Each time there is extreme (for me that is)
>stress, they come back. Been listened to several times; always told
>nothing to worry about unless heart starts racing or start getting chest
>pains, breathlessness and the like. Can exercise just fine without
>falling over and they seem to disappear once I go to bed.
>
>If the ECG and echo did show any problems no one told me.

Not to be technical but what you are feeling is a "palpitation"
not an "arrhythmia". A palpitation will not show up on a normal
EKG or echo because it only happens occassionally. If you're
hooked up to a recording EKG for a couple days then they might
register one or two of these events.

Typically arrhythmias happen every heartbeat, aren't felt
by the subject, but show up on any EKG.

Steve

Goomba38 wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
> \
> > Had my first and so far only ECG before surgery in May. Few days later
> > had a post-surgical cardiac ultrasound. Have experienced stress-induced
> > arrhythmias for a few years now, but they always go away when I'm
> > relaxed. No one suggested seeing a cardiologist so assuming they still
> > aren't considered a problem and no one mentioned any difficulties when
> > seeking consent for the surgery from my mother (I was out of it at the
> > time).
>
> If you only just had the first ECG in May, how do you know you've had
> arrhythmias for a few years now?
> Did the ECG or ECHO show any problems?

LOL can feel the arrhythmias, as in 'missed/skipped' heartbeats! Started
right after my mother was carted off to the ER, then they went away.
Asked doc about it; got listened to and questioned (no other symptoms)
etc. Next time my mother got carted off to the ER, they came back and
disappeared eventually. Each time there is extreme (for me that is)
stress, they come back. Been listened to several times; always told
nothing to worry about unless heart starts racing or start getting chest
pains, breathlessness and the like. Can exercise just fine without
falling over and they seem to disappear once I go to bed.

If the ECG and echo did show any problems no one told me. Didn't have a
recurrence of the arrythmia until the hospital bills started to show
up... Looking at options for trying to make them go away permanently.

Am having an appointment with my FP next week (the surgeons and the
opthalmologists will be done with me for a while) and will bring up the
issue yet again.

"Dee.Dee" wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > "Dee.Dee" wrote:
> >>
> >> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > That of course is true. We had a man die (heart attack) on our campus
> >> > just minutes after he apparently had been tested by his cardiologist in
> >> > the University hospital across the street.
> >>
> >> I don't doubt your word, but my question is: had someone read the test as
> >> it
> >> was being tested, and read the report.
> >> Reports are not immediately available and one would hope that the person
> >> administering the test was competent to read it as he was administering
> >> it.
> >>
> >> Maybe not these different things were not coordinated before the man
> >> walked
> >> to the other side of the street.
> >>
> >> Just musing, and thinking about a couple of my previous tests.
> >> Dee Dee
> >
> > Couldn't say as to that. Only saw the poor chap being carted away. Would
> > have thought anything that looked terribly out of place would have been
> > mentioned to someone on the spot.
> >
> > Had my first and so far only ECG before surgery in May. Few days later
> > had a post-surgical cardiac ultrasound. Have experienced stress-induced
> > arrhythmias for a few years now, but they always go away when I'm
> > relaxed. No one suggested seeing a cardiologist so assuming they still
> > aren't considered a problem and no one mentioned any difficulties when
> > seeking consent for the surgery from my mother (I was out of it at the
> > time).
>
> Gee, I had a ECG (not a stress test) before a colonoscopy this year. I was
> amazed that they they would be this common. Perhaps my age, I don't know.

They aren't really so high-tech any more; makes sense to have a look
before doing anything potentially stressful.

>
> If it were me, I would see a doctor who would address arrhythmia, if I ever
> had any inkling.
> or
> Hey, don't ever get stressed if you can't find a chair to relax! Or do you
> use meditation to relax!

Trying meditation, acupressure and herbs to relax and address the
arrythymias; don't always sleep very well so anything is worth a try.
>
> Have you done your research on arrhythmia?
> Dee Dee

Yes indeed, TYVM! According to my previous GPs and my Net research, this
type of arrythmia ('skipped/missed' heartbeats) are generally considered
benign in the *absence* of any other evidence of heart disease. Most
cases (as opposed to patients) disappear over time.

Boron Elgar wrote:
>
> On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:54:17 -0700, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> >That of course is true. We had a man die (heart attack) on our campus
> >just minutes after he apparently had been tested by his cardiologist in
> >the University hospital across the street.
>
> I had a doctor tell me that for an impressive percentage of heart
> attacks, the first indication that anything is awry is the wake.
>
> Boron

Yes.. have heard that too. Sad really.

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Dee.Dee" wrote:
>>
>> "Arri London" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> >
>> > "Dee.Dee" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Arri London" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >
>> >> > That of course is true. We had a man die (heart attack) on our
>> >> > campus
>> >> > just minutes after he apparently had been tested by his cardiologist
>> >> > in
>> >> > the University hospital across the street.
>> >>
>> >> I don't doubt your word, but my question is: had someone read the test
>> >> as
>> >> it
>> >> was being tested, and read the report.
>> >> Reports are not immediately available and one would hope that the
>> >> person
>> >> administering the test was competent to read it as he was
>> >> administering
>> >> it.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe not these different things were not coordinated before the man
>> >> walked
>> >> to the other side of the street.
>> >>
>> >> Just musing, and thinking about a couple of my previous tests.
>> >> Dee Dee
>> >
>> > Couldn't say as to that. Only saw the poor chap being carted away.
>> > Would
>> > have thought anything that looked terribly out of place would have been
>> > mentioned to someone on the spot.
>> >
>> > Had my first and so far only ECG before surgery in May. Few days later
>> > had a post-surgical cardiac ultrasound. Have experienced stress-induced
>> > arrhythmias for a few years now, but they always go away when I'm
>> > relaxed. No one suggested seeing a cardiologist so assuming they still
>> > aren't considered a problem and no one mentioned any difficulties when
>> > seeking consent for the surgery from my mother (I was out of it at the
>> > time).
>>
>> Gee, I had a ECG (not a stress test) before a colonoscopy this year. I
>> was
>> amazed that they they would be this common. Perhaps my age, I don't
>> know.
>
> They aren't really so high-tech any more; makes sense to have a look
> before doing anything potentially stressful.
>
>>
>> If it were me, I would see a doctor who would address arrhythmia, if I
>> ever
>> had any inkling.
>> or
>> Hey, don't ever get stressed if you can't find a chair to relax! Or do
>> you
>> use meditation to relax!
>
> Trying meditation, acupressure and herbs to relax and address the
> arrythymias; don't always sleep very well so anything is worth a try.
>>
>> Have you done your research on arrhythmia?
>> Dee Dee
>
> Yes indeed, TYVM! According to my previous GPs and my Net research, this
> type of arrythmia ('skipped/missed' heartbeats) are generally considered
> benign in the *absence* of any other evidence of heart disease. Most
> cases (as opposed to patients) disappear over time.


I'm glad you checked.
2 years ago I started getting a missed heartbeat, then a thud feeling.
Since I have high cholesterol, and I don't want to take drugs, a doctor
recommended a certain herbal concoction. I had no idea what was causing it
the heart beat; but another doctor said to take a look at what I had started
ingesting the last few months; there was the answer! No more problem.

But f-i-l has had no heart problems, but the doctors have had him on meds
for years for it. I've listened to his heart beat and I'm surprised he is
alive. He has irregular heartbeat which would scare me to death, even with
medication. They've suggested electric shock, but he won't do it. (Neither
would I -- I don't think.)

Dee Dee

Steve Pope wrote:

> Not to be technical but what you are feeling is a "palpitation"
> not an "arrhythmia". A palpitation will not show up on a normal
> EKG or echo because it only happens occassionally. If you're
> hooked up to a recording EKG for a couple days then they might
> register one or two of these events.
>
> Typically arrhythmias happen every heartbeat, aren't felt
> by the subject, but show up on any EKG.
>
> Steve

No, there are plenty of arrhythmias that aren't on each beat, such as
bigeminy or trigeminy.

Goomba38 > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>> Not to be technical but what you are feeling is a "palpitation"
>> not an "arrhythmia". A palpitation will not show up on a normal
>> EKG or echo because it only happens occassionally. If you're
>> hooked up to a recording EKG for a couple days then they might
>> register one or two of these events.

>> Typically arrhythmias happen every heartbeat, aren't felt
>> by the subject, but show up on any EKG.

>No, there are plenty of arrhythmias that aren't on each beat, such as
>bigeminy or trigeminy.

Okay, you're right. Typically arrhythmias happen every beat, or at
regular intervals of every two or three or four beats.

But the ocassional thumping-feeling is still a palpitation and not
an arrhythmia.

Steve

In article >, Arri London >
wrote:

> Boron Elgar wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:54:17 -0700, Arri London >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >That of course is true. We had a man die (heart attack) on our campus
> > >just minutes after he apparently had been tested by his cardiologist in
> > >the University hospital across the street.
> >
> > I had a doctor tell me that for an impressive percentage of heart
> > attacks, the first indication that anything is awry is the wake.
> >
> > Boron
>
> Yes.. have heard that too. Sad really.

That was the case for both of my grandmothers. One apparently thought
she was having indigestion, so she took some Pepto-Bismol and went back
to bed. That's where my uncle found her the next morning.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

In article >,
Goomba38 > wrote:

> Cindy Fuller wrote:
>
> > I wound up making lamb smothered with onions from Julie Sahni's Classic
> > Indian Cooking. I had all of the ingredients on hand. I accompanied it
> > with some [DON'T READ THIS, BARB!] beets that had been tossed with brown
> > mustard seed.
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> Sounds good to me! Do you have any more of a "recipe" for those beets? I
> love 'em dearly and would be interested in trying something new.

You peel and cut the beets into julienne slices, then cook them for 5-10
minutes in just enough water to cover with a little turmeric added.
Drain. Heat up a little oil in a frying pan and add the brown mustard
seed. Let them finish popping (use a splatter shield or lid, otherwise
you'll have mustard seed everywhere), then toss in the beets with a
little salt and sugar. Stir things around and serve. Doesn't get much
easier than that.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

kilikini wrote:

> I used to date a heart surgeon who
> checked me out during an episode who confirmed my case. He said it was
> nothing to worry about, nothing serious at all. My heart valve just gets
> stuck sometimes. No big deal.
>
> kili
>
Um..."stuck" ???...that makes no sense to me?? But hey.. I wasn't dating
the guy so can't say if he knew his ass from a hole in the ground..? LOL

Steve Pope wrote:

> Okay, you're right. Typically arrhythmias happen every beat, or at
> regular intervals of every two or three or four beats.
>
> But the ocassional thumping-feeling is still a palpitation and not
> an arrhythmia.
>
> Steve

True. Arrythmias usually occur when something has gone funky with the
electrical system. Drug effects, ischemia, injury, caffeine overload..
*something* is altering the conduction of current and it can vary in
significance and affect on the person. You can have a very regular
irregular ECG..or an irregular irregular ECG.

"Cindy Fuller" > wrote

> That was the case for both of my grandmothers. One apparently thought
> she was having indigestion, so she took some Pepto-Bismol and went back
> to bed. That's where my uncle found her the next morning.

Apparently that's pretty common in women. I knew someone who died
that way as well. She thought maybe she ate too much at Thanksgiving
dinner and went to lie down. That poor family, what a horrible holiday
memory.

Someone sent me a longish email on the subject. What it boils down to
is that women more often die from their first heart attack because they
don't know they're having one. For so many years, heart attack studies
were only done on men, it's relatively recent that they figured out it's
a different ball game with women.

nancy

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:00:13 -0500, "Nancy Young" >
wrote:

>
>"Cindy Fuller" > wrote
>
>> That was the case for both of my grandmothers. One apparently thought
>> she was having indigestion, so she took some Pepto-Bismol and went back
>> to bed. That's where my uncle found her the next morning.
>
>Apparently that's pretty common in women. I knew someone who died
>that way as well. She thought maybe she ate too much at Thanksgiving
>dinner and went to lie down. That poor family, what a horrible holiday
>memory.
>
>Someone sent me a longish email on the subject. What it boils down to
>is that women more often die from their first heart attack because they
>don't know they're having one. For so many years, heart attack studies
>were only done on men, it's relatively recent that they figured out it's
>a different ball game with women.
>
>nancy
>


It is a different ball game for a few reasons - the female symptoms
are not always the more classic ones of male heart attacks (although,
they, too, can vary), women tend to wait longer to seek aid, likely,
in part, due to the differing symptoms, and some hospital ERs do not
take women's symptoms as seriously as a man's when presenting with
symptoms. Sad, but true. This is changing, but not gone.


Boron