Dee.Dee wrote:

> Just an aside about the good old potato:
> I note that most doctors tell you to be sure to eat a banana when you are
> taking diuretics; I guess because they know it's easy to 'prepare' a banana.
> However, I think more potassium is available in a potato.
> Dee Dee
>
Only SOME diuretics cause potassium loss (Lasix, for example). Others
don't.

Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >,
> "Dee.Dee" > wrote:
>
>
>> Just an aside about the good old potato:
>> I note that most doctors tell you to be sure to eat a banana when you are
>> taking diuretics; I guess because they know it's easy to 'prepare' a banana.
>> However, I think more potassium is available in a potato.
>
> According to:
>
> http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
>
> 100g of raw banana has 358mg of potassium
> 100g of baked potato has 535mg of potassium
>
> This is good news for me, since I don't much like bananas and I just
> love potatoes.

But if your kidneys are failing from the diabetes, you don't really need
more potassium usually.

"Andy" <q> wrote in message ...
> Called the Doc a few minutes ago.
>
> This was the result of the "fasting plasma glucose" blood test?!?
>
> Doc says I have diabetes. Will see him tomorrow.
>
> Andy

Andy,

First, don't panic. 120 is not altogether very high, which is a good thing. Seems to
me like you will most likely be able to get a hold of this thing pretty quickly with
managing your food intake and exercise. Your doctor may put you on meds, but even if
he does, it can be temporary. It's a scary thing to be told, but if you take a deep
breath and steady yourself, you'll be ok. You're not alone, I promise you that.

I was diagnosed some time ago. My fasting BG level at that time was 187. This is not
a borderline case. It wasn't a big surprise in that my father, my brother, and my
sister had already been diagnosed...but that didn't make it less shocking to me to
hear it out loud. I mean, I suspected it a long while before I finally went to the
doctor.

There are a lot of good books out there, but even more important, I think, is finding
an endocrinologist that, for lack of a better word, suits you. For me, that is
someone who's honest but encouraging, and who listens and tries to help me make this
fit my life, not make my life all about the diabetes.

If you ever need an ear, drop me a line.

kimberly

"Andy" <q> wrote in message ...
> Boron Elgar said...
>
>> On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:33:21 -0600, Andy <q> wrote:
>>
>>>Called the Doc a few minutes ago.
>>>
>>>This was the result of the "fasting plasma glucose" blood test?!?
>>>
>>>Doc says I have diabetes. Will see him tomorrow.
>>>
>>>Andy
>>
>> Often, two fasting BGs above 125 are considered for a diagnosis, but
>> he may have other tests that he ran but did not give you details of.
>>
>> Anything between 100 and 125 is often diagnosed as "pre-diabetes" or
>> insulin resistant.
>>
>> The numbers swing around a bit for diagnosing, with some MDs allowing
>> a tad more leeway than others, sometimes because of insurance
>> implications, but at 120, you really need to follow this through with
>> your physician. Regardless of cut-off numbers, obviously, you are
>> compromised and will need to make some lifestyle changes and perhaps
>> take some meds.
>>
>> You've caught this early. You can control it easily with some
>> concentration and avoid complications pretty well if you're careful.
>> Best of luck to you.
>>
>> Boron
>
>
> Might this have been apparent when I had pancreatitus in 2004-2005?
> Malpractice? Or not written on my records? (same thing!?!?)
>
> Grasping at straws,
>
> Andy
>

Are you asking if you'd already had it then? Or if the pancreatitis caused it?
Neither may be the case, or one may be. There's no way to know for sure.
The important thing now is to snap about of the denial phase, breathe through that
desperate feeling, and get onto dealing with this diagnosis. Easier said than done,
believe me I know, but still necessary.

kimberly

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 08:23:57 GMT, "Paul M. Cook" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
>
> >> Really? I disagree. There are some people with diabetes who should not
> >> touch sweets, but for the average diabetic, a small amount of candy or
> >> cake once in a while won't kill them if they are generally well
> >> controlled and get regular exercise.
> >>
> >
> >You diabetic? Doesn't sound like you are. For one a glucose spike takes
> >more than a little time back on the wagon to fix. Spikes are usually
> >followed by periods of sustained, though lower, highs. Glucose spikes
cause
> >all kinds of liver problems which also include lows which can absolutely
> >kill you. People not versed in diabetes do not know the huge role the
liver
> >plays in the syndrome and how easily it gets confused and how hard it is
to
> >sort it out again. Insulin is the liver's on off switch and when insulin
is
> >out of whack the liver goes nuts dumping stored glycogen into the blood.
Or
> >not releasing it when it is needed. Dicking around with your levels is
to
> >be avoided if at all possible. Thanksgiving qualifies as not possible,
IMO.
> >
> >Your opinion is based on conjecture. Mine is based on true life
experience
> >and my doctor's advice.
> >
> >Paul
> >
>
> Then you are being advised rather strangely. But one thing that you
> will find is a favorite phrase among diabetics online is YMMV. No two
> diabetics are alike in their food tolerance. One can eat a piece of
> pizza and never spike, and another cannot tolerate pizza at all.

Sure, I hear that all the time. And to make it stranger, that same piece of
pizza that does not spike you on Monday will cause a massive spike on
Friday. Well not the same piece, but one just like it. That is the bizarre
nature of this disease and why the best course is to avoid food that can
spike you and eat those that never do.

Paul

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 08:52:49 GMT, "Julie Bove" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"kilikini" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >
> >> When you're initially diagnosed, aren't you encouraged to go get
> >> counseling with dieticians? I had a roommate one time who was
diagnosed
> >> with type 2, and that's what he was required to do to learn how to eat
to
> >> help control the disease with nutrician, medication, moderation, and
> >> constant testing with the glucometer (I think it's called).
> >> Unfortunately, he didn't follow through. He moved out and I lost touch
> >> with him, so I don't know how he's doing now. He was severely
overweight,
> >> though, and ate anything and everything in sight. I was sad to see him
> >> move out, because I knew I could help control his eating habits if he
had
> >> stayed. (I always cooked for the house - we had 3 other roommates.)
> >
> >Depends on your Dr. I saw dieticians in the past. My current Endo.
doesn't
> >recommend them because he says they tell you to eat too many carbs.
> >
> He's working with the wrong dieticians, then.
>

I've yet to find a "right" one. I think they are seriously misguided people
and their education is a "one size fits all" deal. They don;t seem to
realize that not every person's metabolism is the same as the other. They
also seem to be far too guided by whatever fad food scheme is in rage at the
time. They act like cutting bread out of your diet is akin to swallowing
poison. I don't trust them.

Paul

On Nov 8, 11:57 am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article . com>,
> Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:
>
> > Potatoes are a great food for those who are not overweight. Obese
> > people should avoid them, as they break down quickly and easily into
> > pure glucose.
>
> Everybody knows that. Therefore, it's pretty certain that it isn't
> true. Obese people should avoid transfats (as well as all other fats),
> because they break down slowly and surely into pure fat
> (or sometimes glucose).

Fats break down into glucose???? It is proteins (amino acids) that
can break down into glucose. I think that most amino acids produce
ketones.
Everyone should avoid trans-fats, but other fats may be fine. I know
that when people go on >60% calories from fat and <5% calories from
carbs, their bodies start burning fat, and in my case, I lost 35
pounds in 6 months. I should be pretty much into ketosis by now,
having had less than 30 grams of carbs in the last 48 hours. Soon, I
will be thinner than I was in the photo on the r.f.c mugshot page.
>
> Potatoes are a good source of protein, vitamin C and fiber. They are
> often high in fat, due solely to the oil, butter and sour cream put on
> them.

You can have my share of the potatoes, while I have your share of the
butter, in a nice Jack Spratty bargain

--Bryan

On Nov 8, 11:50 am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article >,
>
> "Dee.Dee" > wrote:
> > Just an aside about the good old potato:
> > I note that most doctors tell you to be sure to eat a banana when you are
> > taking diuretics; I guess because they know it's easy to 'prepare' a banana.
> > However, I think more potassium is available in a potato.
>
> According to:
>
> http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
>
> 100g of raw banana has 358mg of potassium
> 100g of baked potato has 535mg of potassium
>
> This is good news for me, since I don't much like bananas and I just
> love potatoes.

Potassium gluconate 595 mg tablets have 99 mg elemental potassium, and
zero calories.

--Bryan

In article >,
enigma > wrote:


> but sweet potatoes with a touch of Karo syrup was what i gave
> Mooch (cat) when he started looking like he was going to
> seizure from his diabetes. it was probably the fast effect of
> the Karo & sustained effect of the sweet potatoes. he sure did
> love sweet potatoes...
> his sugar levels went from a low of 47 to unable to read on
> the vet's equipment (over 700) before we got him stabilized on
> insulin. he lived another 5 years.


It's important to note that it isn't the diabetes, but the treatment
that causes these problems. That's why insulin is the last resort. An
overdose can be fatal. Determining what is the right amount is
difficult, as it depends on exercise level and food consumption. The
right amount on Monday at 5PM could be an overdose on Tuesday at 5PM.
One of the first symptoms of insulin shock is a loss of brain function.
These people can't figure out what's wrong or what to do.

In article >,
Becca > wrote:

> l, not -l wrote:
>
> > My meter taught me that I can eat a cup of hash browns, but
> > can't eat mashed potatoes.

> Hash browns have more fat than mashed potatoes. Doesn't the amount of
> fat, change your body's rate of absorption?


Maybe you need a new recipe for mashed potatoes? I don't eat them
often, but there is always a lot of butter in them when I do.

:-)

"Paul M. Cook" > wrote in message
news:8gMYi.4519$m44.2480@trnddc06...

> I've yet to find a "right" one. I think they are seriously misguided
> people
> and their education is a "one size fits all" deal. They don;t seem to
> realize that not every person's metabolism is the same as the other. They
> also seem to be far too guided by whatever fad food scheme is in rage at
> the
> time. They act like cutting bread out of your diet is akin to swallowing
> poison. I don't trust them.

I've seen three. All three times as a vegetarian. The first two were big
chicken pushers. "Couldn't you just TRY the chicken?" One even said she
felt fuller when she ate chicken at a meal. As though it were something
magic.

The third one did give me a vegetarian meal plan but what she wanted me to
eat was a joke! As usual, you fill out some papers ahead of time, including
what you've eaten for 5 days to a week and list your favorite foods.
Pancakes were among my favorite foods. She said with a smile that I could
have one 2" pancake with a teaspoon of margarine and a teaspoon of diet
syrup. Oh wow! What a breakfast! Like I'm going to heat up the griddle
for that. And sadly she was so skinny she probably did eat something like
that for breakfast.

"Michael "Dog3"" > wrote in message
6.121...

>
> Yes Mary and not everyone is the same. We all have different issues with
> diabetes. Bananas make my BG soar while potatoes do not. Go figure.

I do well with potatoes, but I know many diabetics do not.

"Dee.Dee" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Michael "Dog3"" > wrote in message
> 6.121...
>
>
> Now here is a weird one. I don't
>> make and eat polenta often but I like it. In the past year I've made it
>> twice, using the exact same recipe except maybe for the butter. My BG
>> spiked very little after eating the first batch and soared to over 400
>> after eating it the second time. I found that really strange. Next time
>> I make it I'm going to do the poke test before eating it and again an
>> hour or 2 after eating it.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>
> Perhaps it could have something to do with what was eaten during each meal
> along with the polenta.

Also, you have to factor in other medical issues. I finally know that I
have gastroparesis which would explain why I do so well with things like
white bread, potatoes and rice. While heartier grains and low carb things
like some kinds of meat send me spiking. I can't digest those things so
they sit in my stomach, driving my BG up. With the easier to digest foods
pass through me and are digested a lot more quickly.

I've also had thyroid problems off and on and that affects my BG and the
types of foods I can eat.

"l, not -l" > wrote in message
...
> Andy, if you haven't already tuned out all this conflicting advice, please
> do so. This thread, in its entirety, has only one bit of valuable
> information - Type II diabetes is experienced in vastly different ways,
> each
> person must learn how to manage the way it effects them. There is no one
> way, no one set of food that is right or wrong.
>
> Please, consult a diabetic educator, consult a dietician, learn about the
> Glycemic Index and Load. Then, get a glucometer and a bunch of strips and
> test regularly, learn how your body reacts to various foods. Then you can
> start planning meals and modifications to your favorite recipes that will
> help you manage YOUR "numbers".
>
> For example: I learned that I cannot eat white rice without a dramatic
> rise
> in MY glucose level. I also learned that pasta has very little effect on
> MY
> glucose level, the same is true with pearled barley. What I learned was,
> don't eat the rice with my chinese food and, I can substitute either orzo
> (grain shaped pasta) or pearl barley in recipes like stuffed peppers to
> manage MY "numbers".
>
> My glucometer taught me that I cannot eat baked potatoes, but I can have a
> small portion of boiled potatoes (different type of potato) or a small
> baked
> sweet potato. My meter taught me that I can eat a cup of hash browns, but
> can't eat mashed potatoes. Rye and sourdough breads have much less effect
> on MY "numbers" than most other bread.
>
> When I must eat at a fastfood restaurant, a small order of fries and a
> Sourdough burger at Hardee's will not spike MY glucose level. If I crave
> a
> sweet snack, a Munch candy bar does not raise MY glucose number
> signifcantly
> - it is a low glycemic treat that turns out to be 1 carb exchange per bar.
>
> Finally, for ME, a 30 minute walk, 5-6 times per week works wonders. On
> occasion, I can't manage the 30 minutes at once - I still see benefit from
> 2
> 15 minute walks those days.
>
> Who knows what will work for you, you're just starting the journey. Ask
> for
> directions from a qualified diabetic educator and dietician and set goals
> for managing your "numbers". Use a meter as your compass to stay on
> course
> while navigating the choices you must make.

Personally I've found the glycemic index, glycemic load to be worthless for
me, but YMMV.

"Becca" > wrote in message
...
> l, not -l wrote:
>
>> My meter taught me that I can eat a cup of hash browns, but
>> can't eat mashed potatoes. Rye and sourdough breads have much less
>> effect
>> on MY "numbers" than most other bread.
>
> Hash browns have more fat than mashed potatoes. Doesn't the amount of
> fat, change your body's rate of absorption?

Yes. Fat delays the absorption of carbs. We have what has been known as
the dreaded pizza effect. Pizza being notorious because it tend to be high
in fat and carbs. You can test your BG at 2 hours and have it be fine.
Then maybe 3-5 hours later you get a big spike. Or worse yet, you test at 2
hours, are low, then eat more carbs and then *wham* all the carbs from the
pizza hit your system and you get a big spike.

This used to happen to me all the time when we went to the Presidio to shop
at the commissary. We'd stop first for lunch. The only options there were
pizza and some other things I didn't eat. I'd have a piece of pizza and
maybe the toppings from another slice.

I'd do the shopping, and while waiting in line would go hypo. I'd barely
make it back to the car to eat the bag of M & M's I always bought. I'd
finally start to feel better, then around dinner time I could hardly eat
anything because it was spike city.

In article .com>,
Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:

> On Nov 8, 11:50 am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> > In article >,
> >
> > "Dee.Dee" > wrote:
> > > Just an aside about the good old potato:
> > > I note that most doctors tell you to be sure to eat a banana when you are
> > > taking diuretics; I guess because they know it's easy to 'prepare' a
> > > banana.
> > > However, I think more potassium is available in a potato.
> >
> > According to:
> >
> > http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
> >
> > 100g of raw banana has 358mg of potassium
> > 100g of baked potato has 535mg of potassium
> >
> > This is good news for me, since I don't much like bananas and I just
> > love potatoes.
>
> Potassium gluconate 595 mg tablets have 99 mg elemental potassium, and
> zero calories.


Sounds tasty. I posted the above because people are forever speculating
on things having to do with nutrition. The above URL is a pretty solid
site for nutritional information.

My potassium is:

POTASSIUM 4.5
and the normal range is:

3.5-5.3 mEq/L

I guess I'm eating enough potatoes!

I don't much like stuff with zero calories. I am no longer seriously
underweight, but I'm not carrying any extra. There is a picture of me
on the rfc mugshot page.

In article .com>,
Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote:

> On Nov 8, 11:57 am, Dan Abel > wrote:
> > In article . com>,
> > Bobo Bonobo? > wrote:
> >
> > > Potatoes are a great food for those who are not overweight. Obese
> > > people should avoid them, as they break down quickly and easily into
> > > pure glucose.
> >
> > Everybody knows that. Therefore, it's pretty certain that it isn't
> > true. Obese people should avoid transfats (as well as all other fats),
> > because they break down slowly and surely into pure fat
> > (or sometimes glucose).
>
> Fats break down into glucose???? It is proteins (amino acids) that
> can break down into glucose. I think that most amino acids produce
> ketones.

The human body is pretty good at converting food into glucose.

[I just erased 90% of what I wrote, because I was wrong]


> Everyone should avoid trans-fats, but other fats may be fine.

Everyone needs fat, but too much fat makes you fat.


> > Potatoes are a good source of protein, vitamin C and fiber. They are
> > often high in fat, due solely to the oil, butter and sour cream put on
> > them.
>
> You can have my share of the potatoes, while I have your share of the
> butter, in a nice Jack Spratty bargain


It's a duel to the death, then. I'll take your potatoes, but you ain't
getting my butter!

Choose your weapon!

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article <TFvYi.5445$b%1.1712@trnddc01>,
> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>
>> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
>
>> > One thing I have learned is that for many Type II diabetics, there are
>> > few
>> > if any foods that are absolutely fobidden. What's important is a
>> carefully
>> > balanced diet with appropriate proportions. This may not be true for
>> > all
>> > diabetics, but it has proven to be true for me and many others that I
>> know.
>>
>>
>> Not quite true. Sweets are absolutely out. Period. Kiss desserts
>> goodbye
>> right of the bat.
>
> Portion control is the key. Psychology is important also. If your
> brain can't handle a couple of ounces of dessert (ie you can't control
> those seconds, thirds and fourths), then you'll have to give them up.
> If you can stop after a half ounce of chocolate, then why not?
>

5 grams of white sugar will cause my blood sugar to rise by as much as 80
points and stay there for 4 hours or more. The question is not why not, the
question is why.

>
>> That means more than just candy, fruit juices are out as
>> are of course any pastries, pies, cakes etc.
>
>
>> Many fruits are OK such as bananas and melons. I
>> don't feel at all deprived not being able to eat pasta and pancakes.
>> Though
>> there is nothing wrong with indulging every so often as a reward.
>
>
> What's the difference between "bananas and melons" and "fruit juices"?

Fiber. Makes a difference. And I did not say all fruits. I specified
those two for a reason. I cannot eat oranges or orange juice. I can eat
grapes but not grape juice.

> They are both very high in sugar.

Fiber. And if eaten with a meal you can eat more fruit than if you eat the
fruit alone. After a nice meal of eat and veggies I can have a bowl of
papaya and my BG will be reasonable. If I eat just the papaya I will spike.
All depends on how long it takes to get the sugar out of the food and into
the blood.

Paul

Oh pshaw, on Wed 07 Nov 2007 09:29:14p, Dee.Dee meant to say...

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message >> T2
> diabetes can be managed without a huge impact on your life. It does
>>> not have to ruin your life, it just means things are going to be
>>> different.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> I'm sorry, Paul, but I have to disagree with you. My insulin
>> resistance is totally gone, where in the beginning it could barely be
>> controlled. I no longer take any meds at all. My fasting BG is in the
>> low end of "normal" range. An hour and two hours after eating
>> "something I shouldn't", my BG is rarely even 120. I will never claim
>> that I am no longer diabetic, but I
>> balance and manage when and what I eat and in what combinations.
>>
>> If that doesn't work for you and others, then it doesn't, but it works
>> for me and my doctor agrees. We have charted it very carefully.
>>
>> --
>> Wayne Boatwright
>
>
> Dear f-i-l did the strips to keep track of his numbers. I know that
> really helped him a lot. I've done a few of the pricks myself ;-)) and
> found that I'm in the ball-park when I've done it, but these home tests
> I would think are quite guiding and comforting.
>
> No remarks, please, dear Wayne. ;-))
> Dee Dee
>
>
>

Go prick yourself, Dee Dee! :-)))

(Honest, I just couldn't resist)

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
__________________________________________________ ____________

Modem: What landscapers do to dem lawns.

Oh pshaw, on Thu 08 Nov 2007 01:37:04a, kilikini meant to say...

> Paul M. Cook wrote:
>> "Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article <TFvYi.5445$b%1.1712@trnddc01>,
>>> "Paul M. Cook" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not quite true. Sweets are absolutely out. Period. Kiss desserts
>>>> goodbye right of the bat. That means more than just candy, fruit
>>>> juices are out as
>>>> are of course any pastries, pies, cakes etc. No T2 should be eating
>>>> anything with processed sugar in it, especially HFCS. Highly
>>>> refined carbs
>>>> are out as well. This means pasta, white breads, white flour etc.
>>>> The whole thing is to avoid the spikes because each spike just
>>>> makes you that much more insulin resistant and it defeats the
>>>> medications effects.
>>>
>>> Really? I disagree. There are some people with diabetes who should
>>> not touch sweets, but for the average diabetic, a small amount of
>>> candy or cake once in a while won't kill them if they are generally
>>> well controlled and get regular exercise.
>>>
>>
>> You diabetic? Doesn't sound like you are. For one a glucose spike
>> takes more than a little time back on the wagon to fix. Spikes are
>> usually followed by periods of sustained, though lower, highs. Glucose
>> spikes cause all kinds of liver problems which also include
>> lows which can absolutely kill you. People not versed in diabetes do
>> not know the huge role the liver plays in the syndrome and how easily
>> it gets confused and how hard it is to sort it out again. Insulin is
>> the liver's on off switch and when insulin is out of whack the liver
>> goes nuts dumping stored glycogen into the blood. Or not releasing
>> it when it is needed. Dicking around with your levels is to be
>> avoided if at all possible. Thanksgiving qualifies as not possible,
>> IMO.
>> Your opinion is based on conjecture. Mine is based on true life
>> experience and my doctor's advice.
>>
>> Paul
>
> When you're initially diagnosed, aren't you encouraged to go get
> counseling with dieticians? I had a roommate one time who was diagnosed
> with type 2, and that's what he was required to do to learn how to eat
> to help control the disease with nutrician, medication, moderation, and
> constant testing with the glucometer (I think it's called).
> Unfortunately, he didn't follow through. He moved out and I lost touch
> with him, so I don't know how he's doing now. He was severely
> overweight, though, and ate anything and everything in sight. I was sad
> to see him move out, because I knew I could help control his eating
> habits if he had stayed. (I always cooked for the house - we had 3
> other roommates.)
>
> kili
>
>
>

When I was first diagnosed, I tested my BG 8 times each day and calculated
every bite of food I ate. As I gained control and lost significant weight,
it's almost as though my body "reset" itself. I know this probably happens
to few people, but I don't have to work hard at all to keep myself in
balance now.

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
__________________________________________________ ____________

Modem: What landscapers do to dem lawns.

Oh pshaw, on Thu 08 Nov 2007 05:22:46a, Boron Elgar meant to say...

> On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 08:23:57 GMT, "Paul M. Cook" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
>
>>> Really? I disagree. There are some people with diabetes who should not
>>> touch sweets, but for the average diabetic, a small amount of candy or
>>> cake once in a while won't kill them if they are generally well
>>> controlled and get regular exercise.
>>>
>>
>>You diabetic? Doesn't sound like you are. For one a glucose spike
>>takes more than a little time back on the wagon to fix. Spikes are
>>usually followed by periods of sustained, though lower, highs. Glucose
>>spikes cause all kinds of liver problems which also include lows which
>>can absolutely kill you. People not versed in diabetes do not know the
>>huge role the liver plays in the syndrome and how easily it gets
>>confused and how hard it is to sort it out again. Insulin is the
>>liver's on off switch and when insulin is out of whack the liver goes
>>nuts dumping stored glycogen into the blood. Or not releasing it when
>>it is needed. Dicking around with your levels is to be avoided if at
>>all possible. Thanksgiving qualifies as not possible, IMO.
>>
>>Your opinion is based on conjecture. Mine is based on true life
>>experience and my doctor's advice.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>
> Then you are being advised rather strangely. But one thing that you
> will find is a favorite phrase among diabetics online is YMMV. No two
> diabetics are alike in their food tolerance. One can eat a piece of
> pizza and never spike, and another cannot tolerate pizza at all.
>
> Nothing is automatically forbidden to a diabetic if taken in
> moderation or, for some, extreme moderation. A diabetic can have some
> small amount of sweets or fruit or orange juice sort as long as it is
> taken carefully, eaten with other foods to moderate its ability to
> cause a spike, ideally with complex carbs and/or protein so that the
> indulgence doesn't cause a spike. No one says have a lunch of
> Wonderbread and white rice topped off with a dessert of candy canes
> and lemon drops, washed down with a bottle of Coke, either.
>
> A well balanced diet, including complex carbs and low fat proteins are
> usually tolerated by a diabetic who understands his body's reactions
> and is in control. Getting and staying in control may be difficult for
> some and there are some who take the Atkins or similar route as it is
> best for them, BUT, that does not mean it is best for every diabetic.
>
> Avoiding the spike is key. You can focus on your liver all you want,
> but your window to how your body is functioning is with your BG levels
> and through your meter (and your HbA1C, of course)... but other than
> monitoring your BG levels fasting, and until one is very sure,
> religiously pre-prandial, and 1 hr and 2 hr post-prandial, you haven't
> the foggiest idea of what the hell your liver is doing, whether it is
> dumping and causing dawn syndrome at 6 am or anything else it is
> doing. Test, test, test. I assure you, not only your liver, but your
> other organs will thank you for it, too.
>
> You have one job as a diabetic. Avoid spikes as best you can. Some do
> it with meds, some with diet and exercise , some with all three.
>
> Just because *your* own body has a intolerance to certain foods, does
> not mean that every other diabetic's does, too. If the only way you,
> yourself, can control spikes and maintain a even keel is to avoid
> *everything,* but all means, follow that path, but never assume that
> is the correct path for all diabetics. We are a diverse bunch, a
> careful bunch, if we've gotten religion, but diverse, nevertheless.
>
> Since most physicians, even endos, are not usually trained in
> nutrition, I do recommend you work with a certified ADA
> dietician/nutritionist. Not all of them are perfect, either, and it
> can take awhile to find one who is willing to listen to the patient,
> and help develop a diet and lifestyle that is personalized and healthy
> and keeps BG levels in the good range. These plans may also differ for
> Patient A, Patient B and Patient C, and that is a Good Thing and means
> the nutritionist is doing his/her work properly and not putting out
> one-size-fits-all blanket statements that will never apply to all
> diabetics.
>
> My Hba1Cs are usually between 5.2 and 5.6, my cholesterol levels are
> way better than "normal," as are my triglycerides. If your
> diet/methods work for you and do that, swell, and mine work for me and
> do that, swell for me, and if Wayne's and Stan's work for them,
> swell...and as you can see, we each take a different path than the one
> you follow and amazingly, we all seem to muddle through.
>
> Now...all you diabetics out there....how do you manage to keep control
> and still eat well? Let's have some ideas. No, we don't turn this into
> the diabetic Usenet groups, but some recipes or methods would be nice
> for sharing, as they are also likely to be healthy in general and
> appeal to all.
>
> Me? The one thing I missed most about being a diabetic was good bread.
> My work around was to become a very serious bread baker and I make
> whole grain breads with complex carbs and higher protein levels. It's
> all sourdough, too, which makes for a lower glycemic index bread. Oh,
> I still only have a thin slice, but it's nice to know I can still have
> bread that is very tasty and very healthy and doesn't cause a spike.
>
> Boron

Well stated, Boron!

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
__________________________________________________ ____________

Modem: What landscapers do to dem lawns.

Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:

>Fats break down into glucose???? It is proteins (amino acids) that
>can break down into glucose.

There are metabolic pathways for both of these. All
calorie-containing food can potentially metabolize to glucose
which is then used generally in the body for energy.

Steve

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 22:41:08 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message

>> >Depends on your Dr. I saw dieticians in the past. My current Endo.
>doesn't
>> >recommend them because he says they tell you to eat too many carbs.
>> >
>> He's working with the wrong dieticians, then.
>>
>
>I've yet to find a "right" one. I think they are seriously misguided people
>and their education is a "one size fits all" deal. They don;t seem to
>realize that not every person's metabolism is the same as the other. They
>also seem to be far too guided by whatever fad food scheme is in rage at the
>time. They act like cutting bread out of your diet is akin to swallowing
>poison. I don't trust them.
>
>Paul


"They" don't do anything like that as they are not monolithic in
thinking or treatment advice.

Keep looking until you find one that has a brain. You need one who is
certified in diabetic counseling, ideally has at least a masters
degree and with whom you can develop trust and work easily. If your
endo isn't using a nutritionist as part of the care of his diabetic
patients, s/he is doing them a disservice. Of course, in my town the
only endo is a blithering idiot and I wouldn't take a hamster to him
for diabetes treatment. His nutritionist almost made him look good.

It is not as if top notch nutritionists do not exist. They do, just as
top notch medical practitioners do. I take similar care in deciding
upon my PCP and specialists, too. There are plenty of physicians whom
I've never gone back to for a second (or once in awhile, a third)
visit. There are fools and geniuses in every field and not only does
the intelligence and expertise need to be there, but both the
capability and willingness to relate to and respect the patient need
to be there, too.

People spend more time and investigation finding a house painter than
in finding proper medical care. Obviously, insurance often puts
restrictions on one's choices, but there is no need to tolerate
incompetent, uncomfortable or unsatisfactory care or inattention from
any medical professional - MD, PhD, DDS, RN, PA, Nurse Practitioner,
nutritionist, pharmacist, phlebotomist, X-ray tech, etc., right on
down to the office receptionist.

I once flat out refused to pay a physician who was rude, dismissive
and performed no service (This was not a consult). I stopped my
insurance company from paying him, too.

You are responsible for the quality of medical care you receive. If
you are unable to make proper decisions or too ill to do so, find a
caregiver or advocate who will make them for you.

Boron

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 16:11:47 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:

>In article >,
> enigma > wrote:
>
>
>> but sweet potatoes with a touch of Karo syrup was what i gave
>> Mooch (cat) when he started looking like he was going to
>> seizure from his diabetes. it was probably the fast effect of
>> the Karo & sustained effect of the sweet potatoes. he sure did
>> love sweet potatoes...
>> his sugar levels went from a low of 47 to unable to read on
>> the vet's equipment (over 700) before we got him stabilized on
>> insulin. he lived another 5 years.
>
>
>It's important to note that it isn't the diabetes, but the treatment
>that causes these problems. That's why insulin is the last resort. An
>overdose can be fatal.

As can be a crash on oral diabetic meds.... Or an inappropriate dose
or complications from or interactions with a lot of other medications
for other disorders. Tylenol can kill you, too. There is no drug that
is 100% "safe."

Insulin is a last resort not because of any particularly lethal
qualities, but because its storage and injection and careful
monitoring and varying dosage calculations and types needed can be
beyond the capability of many patients or just wind up in a
non-compliance issue because of complexity.

Insulin is used when a T2 cannot be brought under control with other
meds and/or the pancreas has crapped out. Additionally, it may be used
temporarily while a patient is hospitalized or usually controlled BG
levels are being affected/complicated by other illness or medication.

Boron

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 05:24:35 GMT, "Michael \"Dog3\""
> wrote:

>Boron Elgar > dropped this
: in rec.food.cooking
>
>
>> There is a lot of debate about glycemic indexing...some of it makes
>> sense and some doesn't and not all professional buy into it fully.
>>
>>
>> A potato varies in its GI according to what kind of potato it is and
>> how it is prepared. In some cases it is quite moderate on teh GI
>> scales.
>>
>> As with every food, a diabetic needs to know how s/he reacts to it,
>> not how some GI scale rates it.
>>
>> Boron
>
>Absolutely. In my case I did a lot of testing when I was first
>diagnosed. Eventually I sort of got to know which foods I would react
>poorly to and what portions. I don't test myself as much as I used to.
>I always test a minimum of 3x daily and sometimes more depending on how I
>feel.
>
>Michael

When I am steady and healthy, I can skate a bit on my testing after my
usual fasting BG in the morning. But if I get so much as a cold or
have any change in any medication or even add a new brand of vitamin,
I test like crazy to make sure all is well.

I do understand that not everyone's insurance covers supplies for
frequent testing and that can be a problem. The stuff is not cheap if
you have to pay full price. I have been told that eBay is actually a
decent source of strips. Meters are always free from
manufacturers...they love to give those way and make their money on
strips....sort of like printer manufacturers and ink cartridges.

Boron

In article <qzPYi.5623$b%1.3472@trnddc01>,
"Paul M. Cook" > wrote:

> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message

> > Portion control is the key.

> 5 grams of white sugar will cause my blood sugar to rise by as much as 80
> points and stay there for 4 hours or more. The question is not why not, the
> question is why.

> > What's the difference between "bananas and melons" and "fruit juices"?
>
> Fiber. Makes a difference. And I did not say all fruits. I specified
> those two for a reason. I cannot eat oranges or orange juice. I can eat
> grapes but not grape juice.
>
> > They are both very high in sugar.
>
> Fiber. And if eaten with a meal you can eat more fruit than if you eat the
> fruit alone. After a nice meal of eat and veggies I can have a bowl of
> papaya and my BG will be reasonable.

Sounds like you've got it down. Everybody is different. You've found
what works for you.

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
3.184...
> Oh pshaw, on Wed 07 Nov 2007 09:29:14p, Dee.Dee meant to say...
>
>>
>> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message >> T2
>> diabetes can be managed without a huge impact on your life. It does
>>>> not have to ruin your life, it just means things are going to be
>>>> different.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, Paul, but I have to disagree with you. My insulin
>>> resistance is totally gone, where in the beginning it could barely be
>>> controlled. I no longer take any meds at all. My fasting BG is in the
>>> low end of "normal" range. An hour and two hours after eating
>>> "something I shouldn't", my BG is rarely even 120. I will never claim
>>> that I am no longer diabetic, but I
>>> balance and manage when and what I eat and in what combinations.
>>>
>>> If that doesn't work for you and others, then it doesn't, but it works
>>> for me and my doctor agrees. We have charted it very carefully.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wayne Boatwright
>>
>>
>> Dear f-i-l did the strips to keep track of his numbers. I know that
>> really helped him a lot. I've done a few of the pricks myself ;-)) and
>> found that I'm in the ball-park when I've done it, but these home tests
>> I would think are quite guiding and comforting.
>>
>> No remarks, please, dear Wayne. ;-))
>> Dee Dee
>>
>>
>>
>
> Go prick yourself, Dee Dee! :-)))
>
> (Honest, I just couldn't resist)
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright



But, Wayne, I can't -- I don't have one! :-))))
Dee Dee

Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >,
> Becca > wrote:
>
>> Hash browns have more fat than mashed potatoes. Doesn't the amount of
>> fat, change your body's rate of absorption?
>
>
> Maybe you need a new recipe for mashed potatoes? I don't eat them
> often, but there is always a lot of butter in them when I do.
>
> :-)

~~

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 02:49:57 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>Oh pshaw, on Thu 08 Nov 2007 05:22:46a, Boron Elgar meant to say...
>
snip
>> Now...all you diabetics out there....how do you manage to keep control
>> and still eat well? Let's have some ideas. No, we don't turn this into
>> the diabetic Usenet groups, but some recipes or methods would be nice
>> for sharing, as they are also likely to be healthy in general and
>> appeal to all.
>>
>> Me? The one thing I missed most about being a diabetic was good bread.
>> My work around was to become a very serious bread baker and I make
>> whole grain breads with complex carbs and higher protein levels. It's
>> all sourdough, too, which makes for a lower glycemic index bread. Oh,
>> I still only have a thin slice, but it's nice to know I can still have
>> bread that is very tasty and very healthy and doesn't cause a spike.
>>
>> Boron
>
>Well stated, Boron!

Thank you, Wayne. It is so nice to see you posting regularly again.

Boron

"Bobo Bonobo®" wrote

>Fats break down into glucose???? It is proteins (amino acids) that
>can break down into glucose. I think that most amino acids produce

ALL foods break down to glucose. It's just a matter of when. If there is
enough glucose already, the body converts it to fat for storage. If there
isnt enough, the body reverses and breaks fats back to glucose.

>You can have my share of the potatoes, while I have your share of the
>butter, in a nice Jack Spratty bargain

Ever just try a balanced diet?

Boron Elgar said...

> On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 22:41:08 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
>
>>> >Depends on your Dr. I saw dieticians in the past. My current Endo.
>>doesn't
>>> >recommend them because he says they tell you to eat too many carbs.
>>> >
>>> He's working with the wrong dieticians, then.
>>>
>>
>>I've yet to find a "right" one. I think they are seriously misguided
>>people and their education is a "one size fits all" deal. They don;t
>>seem to realize that not every person's metabolism is the same as the
>>other. They also seem to be far too guided by whatever fad food scheme
>>is in rage at the time. They act like cutting bread out of your diet is
>>akin to swallowing poison. I don't trust them.
>>
>>Paul
>
>
> "They" don't do anything like that as they are not monolithic in
> thinking or treatment advice.
>
> Keep looking until you find one that has a brain. You need one who is
> certified in diabetic counseling, ideally has at least a masters
> degree and with whom you can develop trust and work easily. If your
> endo isn't using a nutritionist as part of the care of his diabetic
> patients, s/he is doing them a disservice. Of course, in my town the
> only endo is a blithering idiot and I wouldn't take a hamster to him
> for diabetes treatment. His nutritionist almost made him look good.
>
> It is not as if top notch nutritionists do not exist. They do, just as
> top notch medical practitioners do. I take similar care in deciding
> upon my PCP and specialists, too. There are plenty of physicians whom
> I've never gone back to for a second (or once in awhile, a third)
> visit. There are fools and geniuses in every field and not only does
> the intelligence and expertise need to be there, but both the
> capability and willingness to relate to and respect the patient need
> to be there, too.
>
> People spend more time and investigation finding a house painter than
> in finding proper medical care. Obviously, insurance often puts
> restrictions on one's choices, but there is no need to tolerate
> incompetent, uncomfortable or unsatisfactory care or inattention from
> any medical professional - MD, PhD, DDS, RN, PA, Nurse Practitioner,
> nutritionist, pharmacist, phlebotomist, X-ray tech, etc., right on
> down to the office receptionist.
>
> I once flat out refused to pay a physician who was rude, dismissive
> and performed no service (This was not a consult). I stopped my
> insurance company from paying him, too.
>
> You are responsible for the quality of medical care you receive. If
> you are unable to make proper decisions or too ill to do so, find a
> caregiver or advocate who will make them for you.
>
> Boron


When Doc put me on a gout diet (low sat.fat/low protein/high complex carbs)
I instantly about faced.

So many twists of fate, dammit.

Andy

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 04:57:02 -0600, Andy <q> wrote:

>Boron Elgar said...

>> You are responsible for the quality of medical care you receive. If
>> you are unable to make proper decisions or too ill to do so, find a
>> caregiver or advocate who will make them for you.
>>
>> Boron
>
>
>When Doc put me on a gout diet (low sat.fat/low protein/high complex carbs)
>I instantly about faced.
>
>So many twists of fate, dammit.
>
>Andy

Andy, a lot of things happen to us as we get older....some is genetic
pre-disposition, some triggered by our lifestyles (hopefully our kids
understand this now a bit better than we did), some influenced by our
environment (where we have worked, lived, been exposed to knowingly or
unknowingly), and some is, as you say, a twist of fate.

You have, in some ways, been diagnosed at such an early stage of
diabetes, that, if you are careful, may have no harmful effects on
your body, nor affect your longevity. This is important. Truly it is.

We play the cards we are dealt, as we have no choice.

Take heart. I know how difficult it is to be faced with a diagnosis
about a complicated disorder that right now, you don't know a lot
about. I don't mean you are unknowledgeable about it, but you will
need to re-learn or discover a lot about yourself - your body, your
lifestyle, your eating habits, your sense of purpose. Try as hard as
you can to take all of this as opportunities for improvement, rather
than insurmountable tasks.

It isn't always easy, especially at the beginning. It is hard to find
the correct information, and you will often get conflicting
information, as we have seen from a lot of posts here. But there is
nothing in your character that I have seen in your posts here or in
afca that would indicate you are not up to this task - either in
willingness or capability.

I hate to sound like Home Depot. but...

You can do it. We can help.

Take care,

Boron

Boron Elgar said...

> On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 04:57:02 -0600, Andy <q> wrote:
>
>>Boron Elgar said...
>
>>> You are responsible for the quality of medical care you receive. If
>>> you are unable to make proper decisions or too ill to do so, find a
>>> caregiver or advocate who will make them for you.
>>>
>>> Boron
>>
>>
>>When Doc put me on a gout diet (low sat.fat/low protein/high complex
>>carbs) I instantly about faced.
>>
>>So many twists of fate, dammit.
>>
>>Andy
>
> Andy, a lot of things happen to us as we get older....some is genetic
> pre-disposition, some triggered by our lifestyles (hopefully our kids
> understand this now a bit better than we did), some influenced by our
> environment (where we have worked, lived, been exposed to knowingly or
> unknowingly), and some is, as you say, a twist of fate.
>
> You have, in some ways, been diagnosed at such an early stage of
> diabetes, that, if you are careful, may have no harmful effects on
> your body, nor affect your longevity. This is important. Truly it is.
>
> We play the cards we are dealt, as we have no choice.
>
> Take heart. I know how difficult it is to be faced with a diagnosis
> about a complicated disorder that right now, you don't know a lot
> about. I don't mean you are unknowledgeable about it, but you will
> need to re-learn or discover a lot about yourself - your body, your
> lifestyle, your eating habits, your sense of purpose. Try as hard as
> you can to take all of this as opportunities for improvement, rather
> than insurmountable tasks.
>
> It isn't always easy, especially at the beginning. It is hard to find
> the correct information, and you will often get conflicting
> information, as we have seen from a lot of posts here. But there is
> nothing in your character that I have seen in your posts here or in
> afca that would indicate you are not up to this task - either in
> willingness or capability.
>
> I hate to sound like Home Depot. but...
>
> You can do it. We can help.
>
> Take care,
>
> Boron


I bet you can charm snakes too!

Andy

On Nov 10, 10:18 am, Andy <q> wrote:
> Boron Elgar said...
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 04:57:02 -0600, Andy <q> wrote:
>
> >>Boron Elgar said...
>
> >>> You are responsible for the quality of medical care you receive. If
> >>> you are unable to make proper decisions or too ill to do so, find a
> >>> caregiver or advocate who will make them for you.
>
> >>> Boron
>
> >>When Doc put me on a gout diet (low sat.fat/low protein/high complex
> >>carbs) I instantly about faced.
>
> >>So many twists of fate, dammit.
>
> >>Andy
>
> > Andy, a lot of things happen to us as we get older....some is genetic
> > pre-disposition, some triggered by our lifestyles (hopefully our kids
> > understand this now a bit better than we did), some influenced by our
> > environment (where we have worked, lived, been exposed to knowingly or
> > unknowingly), and some is, as you say, a twist of fate.
>
> > You have, in some ways, been diagnosed at such an early stage of
> > diabetes, that, if you are careful, may have no harmful effects on
> > your body, nor affect your longevity. This is important. Truly it is.
>
> > We play the cards we are dealt, as we have no choice.
>
> > Take heart. I know how difficult it is to be faced with a diagnosis
> > about a complicated disorder that right now, you don't know a lot
> > about. I don't mean you are unknowledgeable about it, but you will
> > need to re-learn or discover a lot about yourself - your body, your
> > lifestyle, your eating habits, your sense of purpose. Try as hard as
> > you can to take all of this as opportunities for improvement, rather
> > than insurmountable tasks.
>
> > It isn't always easy, especially at the beginning. It is hard to find
> > the correct information, and you will often get conflicting
> > information, as we have seen from a lot of posts here. But there is
> > nothing in your character that I have seen in your posts here or in
> > afca that would indicate you are not up to this task - either in
> > willingness or capability.
>
> > I hate to sound like Home Depot. but...
>
> > You can do it. We can help.
>
> > Take care,
>
> > Boron
>
> I bet you can charm snakes too!

Sometimes a snake is just a snake.
>
> Andy

--Bryan

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:18:12 -0600, Andy <q> wrote:

>Boron Elgar said...
>

>> You can do it. We can help.
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Boron
>
>
>I bet you can charm snakes too!
>
>Andy


Only venomous ones, of course....

Boron

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 11:40:11 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:18:12 -0600, Andy <q> wrote:
>
>>Boron Elgar said...
>>
>
>>> You can do it. We can help.
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>>
>>> Boron
>>
>>
>>I bet you can charm snakes too!
>>
>>Andy
>
>
>Only venomous ones, of course....
>
>Boron


I was being funny, there..

Boron Elgar said...

> On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 11:40:11 -0500, Boron Elgar
> > wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:18:12 -0600, Andy <q> wrote:
>>
>>>Boron Elgar said...
>>>
>>
>>>> You can do it. We can help.
>>>>
>>>> Take care,
>>>>
>>>> Boron
>>>
>>>
>>>I bet you can charm snakes too!
>>>
>>>Andy
>>
>>
>>Only venomous ones, of course....
>>
>>Boron
>
>
> I was being funny, there..


<chuckle>

Andy
CotD #2

In article >, Andy <q> wrote:


> When Doc put me on a gout diet (low sat.fat/low protein/high complex carbs)
> I instantly about faced.


My mother was on 7 different diets at the same time. They all
contradicted each other. She just laughed and ate what she wanted.