Vox Humana typed:
> " BOB" wrote...
>>>> I think it's a CYA just in case someone lets the pan boil dry. Corporate
>>>> lawyers and all that.
>>>>
>>>> BOB
>>>
>>> Yes, just like the CYA label on superhero Halloween costumes that say
>>> something like "wearing this garment doesn't enable you to fly."
>>
>> You have *GOT* to be kidding me...no, in today's world, I'll believe it.
>
> It's true and from a book called "101 Dumb Warning Labels."
> http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/922010.asp
> Here are a few more examples from the book:
> - Steam iron packaging warns users not to "iron clothes on body"
> - A glass cleaner admonishes not to "spray in eyes"
> - A sunscreen that unfolds to cover the inside of a car windshield says not
> to "drive with screen in place"
> - A chainsaw user's manual commands: "Do not attempt to stop chain with
> hands"

That's why the world is getting overpopulated...no natural selection to weed
out the, umm,
those that aren't really meant to continue the intellegence gene pool.

BOB

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:34:39 GMT, "William Graham" >
wrote:


>I don't think covering the can is necessary....But you don't want to run out
>of water, so put the can in a large pot with lots of water, and watch it so
>you don't forget it....If you run out of water it will explode....As long as
>there's plenty of water, the contents of the can won't boil because they are
>under slightly higher pressure, and the water in your pot won't go over
>boiling at normal atmospheric pressure, so it's safe.....

The water is a heat sink, I imagine. A can sitting on the bottom of a
pan, on a burner, can indeed get warmer than 212 degreees by way of
conduction, if not covered completely with water. If the can was only
1/2 way covered, it would be exposed to air (shich would not absorb
the heat bearly as well as the water) and could likely reach
temperatures above the boiling point of water.

-sw

"Bill" > wrote in message
...

> > I have to say that boiling unopened cans is way
> > past my personal risk threshold. No criticism
> > of those who do it; just a different point of view.

> This was a hot topic of discussion amongst a group
> of avid cooks that included several engineers. The
> consensus was that as long as it was allowed to cook
> completely before opening the pressure cooker method
> was completely safe and that if care is taken the water
> bath method is safe.
>
> The water bath method was deemed safe as long as the
> cans were kept completely covered with water and the
> cooking held to a simmer. The condensed milk inside the
> cans has a higher boiling point than the water around them
> and as such will never reach boiling point. As such the worst
> that could happen is that a rare can might burst but would
> never explode. I have done this several times and not seen
> a hint of a problem. If you forget about it and the water boils
> away that is a whole 'nother story.

Thanks for the info -- gotta love engineers (my Dad is a retired
engineer, my sister dated engineers all through college, I dated
engineers, I was even married to one -- for a while, anyway ).
While I will probably pass on making dulce de leche by boiling the can
(personal risk thresholds are just that: personal), it's nice to know
that it's not as risky as it feels to me.

-j

"Vox Humana" > wrote in message
...
>
> "William Graham" > wrote in message
> news:za%kb.839222$uu5.148897@sccrnsc04...
> >
> > "Vox Humana" > wrote in message
> > news
> > >
> > > "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Vox Humana wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The easy way to make Dulce De Leche is to put an unopened can of
> > > sweetened
> > > > > condensed milk into a small pan. Add water to bring it to about
3/4
> > the
> > > way
> > > > > up the can.
> > > >
> > > > That's an easy way to make an explosion.
> > > >
> > > > Add water to completely cover the can AT ALL TIMES by at least 2".
Do
> > > > not answer the phone while this is going on. Do not answer the
door.
> > > > Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
> > > >
> > > > Making this is safe, but it does need to be watched, do not allow
the
> > > > can to 'surface' in the water at any time.
> > > >
> > > > B/
> > >
> > > Why does covering the can make it safer?
> > >
> > >
> > I don't think covering the can is necessary....But you don't want to run
> out
> > of water, so put the can in a large pot with lots of water, and watch it
> so
> > you don't forget it....If you run out of water it will explode....As
long
> as
> > there's plenty of water, the contents of the can won't boil because they
> are
> > under slightly higher pressure, and the water in your pot won't go over
> > boiling at normal atmospheric pressure, so it's safe.....
>
> The reason then is to have more water as insurance against boiling the pan
> dry. That makes sense, but is a different matter than "the can will
explode
> if it isn't fully submerged."
>
>
Yes....I don't know if the can sinks, or floats, so I don't know whether it
must be covered or not.....If it floats, then of course you don't have to
hold it down so that it will be covered....But in either case, just have
lots of water......

Dimitri wrote:

> Water under normal pressure conditions will not exceed 212 degrees (the
> boiling point). The water prevents the contents from getting too hot and
> exploding the can.

But the water _covers_ the can so that there is higher pressure on the
outside than the inside.

David

Vox Humana wrote:

> I'm sure that Roy Basan can explain it far better than I could. He is a
> wizard when it comes to food science.

s/food/industrial baking of yeasted breads.

David

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:43:47 -0400, Feuer > wrote:


>Dimitri wrote:
>
>> Water under normal pressure conditions will not exceed 212 degrees (the
>> boiling point). The water prevents the contents from getting too hot and
>> exploding the can.
>
>But the water _covers_ the can so that there is higher pressure on the
>outside than the inside.

1-2" of water isn't very much pressure.

-sw

Vox Humana wrote:

> "Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>*non food groups snecked*
>>
>>Vox Humana wrote:
>>
>>>"Dimitri" > wrote in message
y.com...
>>>
>>>>"Vox Humana" > wrote in message
>>>>news >>>>
>>>>>"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>>Vox Humana wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The easy way to make Dulce De Leche is to put an unopened can of
>>>>>
>>>>>sweetened
>>>>>
>>>>>>>condensed milk into a small pan. Add water to bring it to about
>
> 3/4
>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>way
>>>>>
>>>>>>>up the can.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That's an easy way to make an explosion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Add water to completely cover the can AT ALL TIMES by at least 2".
>
> ...
>
>>>>>Why does covering the can make it safer?
>>>>
>>>>Water under normal pressure conditions will not exceed 212 degrees
>
> (the
>
>>>>boiling point). The water prevents the contents from getting too hot
>
> and
>
>>>>exploding the can.
>>>>
>>>>Dimitri
>>>
>>>I understand that part. I just question why Brian claims that the can
>
> has
>
>>>to be completely submerged.
>>
>>So it doesn't explode because the contents overheat, just like Dimitri
>>explained. A can by its nature is a sealed container--i.e., it will
>>become a pressure cooker.
>>
>>Surrounding it with water that _cannot_, under normal pressure, ever
>>exceed the boiling point at that pressure alleviates that concern.
>>
>>Of course, there are some people who wish to demonstrate evolution in
>>action....
>
>
> The procedure that I posted said to bring the water up 3/4 of the way on the
> can. I don't see how leaving the TOP 1/4 of the can exposed to the
> atmosphere which is going to be far cooler than 212F will cause the can to
> overheat. I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I can't think of any
> reason why you would be right. I can see how the contents of the can might
> not cook evenly if isn't fully covered, but that is the opposite of having
> the can explode.

I don't think it's about exploding. I think it's to make sure that the
whole can is cooked. Sweetened condensed milk is thick and would have
very little convection activity inside the can. That would mean that
the top of the can being cooler, it would cook differently than the rest.

In any event, I've done it dozens of times both stovetop and in a
crockpot. Worked fine every time.

Pastorio.

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> Aurrggh! I don't know if this guy means to be funny or not, but NEVER
> heat any unopened can! In fact, this one should go in the kitchen myths
> thread. I don't know where people got the idea that heating condensed
> milk in the can makes caramel, but it is a bad idea. One of the brands
> has even started printing warnings on the label.

Julia, this is a standard method of making dulce de leche. It's been
around for almost as long as sweetened condensed milk has. People got
the idea that heating it in the can makes caramelized milk by doing it
and getting caramelized milk.

It works and it works well.

Pastorio


>
> Vox Humana wrote:
>
>> The easy way to make Dulce De Leche is to put an unopened can of
>> sweetened
>> condensed milk into a small pan. Add water to bring it to about 3/4
>> the way
>> up the can. Bring to a boil and simmer for about an hour. Let cool
>> completely before opening. You can turn the can over after 30 minutes.
>> Store in a jar or plastic container. It should keep for a couple of
>> weeks
>> in the refrigerator, maybe more
>>
>> A quicker method is to use a pressure cooker. Cook at pressure for 30
>> minutes -- 45 minutes if you want it darker.
>>
>>
>

Feuer > wrote in :

>
>
> Dimitri wrote:
>
>> Water under normal pressure conditions will not exceed 212 degrees (the
>> boiling point). The water prevents the contents from getting too hot and
>> exploding the can.
>
> But the water _covers_ the can so that there is higher pressure on the
> outside than the inside.
>
> David
>

The difference 6 inches of standing water makes to the pressure is minute.

"Vox Humana" > wrote:


> That all makes sense to me.
>

Or, if you're the patient sort, buy a few cans every year. About five
or ten years down the road, the first ones you bought should have
reached that state on their own.

(Just opened a 6 year old tin of SCM for my coffee - it was darkened and
thick. The longer it sits, the better. :-))

wrote in
:

> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:09:39 -0400, " BOB"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>I just checked...it's "Magnolia" by Borden. I'll bet Eagle has the
>>warning "Caution-Never heat unopened can."
>
> Their website says: "Notes: For safety reasons, heating the
> unopened can (an old cooking method) is NOT recommended."
>
> From: http://www.eaglebrand.com/detail.asp?rid=825
>
> They do give three alternate methods of making caramel (as
> stated earlier in this thread) - stovetop, microwave, oven.
>
> Pat

It's just another CYA effort.

"Blanche Nonken" > wrote in message
...
> "Vox Humana" > wrote:
>
>
> > That all makes sense to me.
> >
>
> Or, if you're the patient sort, buy a few cans every year. About five
> or ten years down the road, the first ones you bought should have
> reached that state on their own.
>
> (Just opened a 6 year old tin of SCM for my coffee - it was darkened and
> thick. The longer it sits, the better. :-))

I had that happen to me once. I don't use much SCM and when I opened an old
can it was dark. I threw it away thinking it was spoiled!

NOTE: My Correct Address is in my signature (just remove the spaces).
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:15:45 GMT, Blanche Nonken >
wrote:

>"Vox Humana" > wrote:
>
>
>> That all makes sense to me.
>>
>
>Or, if you're the patient sort, buy a few cans every year. About five
>or ten years down the road, the first ones you bought should have
>reached that state on their own.
>
>(Just opened a 6 year old tin of SCM for my coffee - it was darkened and
>thick. The longer it sits, the better. :-))

And you don't even live in a warm climate! Imagine how quickly that
would work for me?

--
Davida Chazan (The Chocolate Lady)
<davida @ jdc . org . il>
~*~*~*~*~*~
"What you see before you, my friend, is the result of a lifetime of
chocolate."
--Katharine Hepburn (May 12, 1907 - June 29, 2003)
~*~*~*~*~*~
Links to my published poetry - http://davidachazan.homestead.com/
~*~*~*~*~*~

In ,
Vox Humana > took a deep breath, sighed and spoke thusly:
> "Blanche Nonken" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Vox Humana" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> That all makes sense to me.
>>>
>>
>> Or, if you're the patient sort, buy a few cans every year. About
>> five
>> or ten years down the road, the first ones you bought should have
>> reached that state on their own.
>>
>> (Just opened a 6 year old tin of SCM for my coffee - it was darkened
>> and thick. The longer it sits, the better. :-))
>
> I had that happen to me once. I don't use much SCM and when I opened
> an old can it was dark. I threw it away thinking it was spoiled!

All this talk now has me wanting to open the can that's been sitting in my cupboard for
years and years (I think it got bought by mistake, probably by my spouse who thought he
was buying evaporated milk).

--
Marilyn
-----------
"They got a name for the winners in the world
I want a name when I lose"

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> "Vox Humana" > wrote in message
> > > > Why does covering the can make it safer?
> > >
> > > Water under normal pressure conditions will not exceed 212 degrees (the
> > > boiling point). The water prevents the contents from getting too hot and
> > > exploding the can.
> > >
> > > Dimitri
> >
> > I understand that part. I just question why Brian claims that the can has
> > to be completely submerged.
>
> Much cross posting snipped
> Only thing I can think of is even cooking of the contents. If the can is
> out of the water, it will be exposed to steam at 212, but no higher. I
> don't see how else the contents would be affected. Am I missing something?
> Ed
>
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

The bottom of the can that is in contact with the pan will be exposed to temps
somewhat higher than 212 degrees. As water is a better conductor of heat than
steam the more water that is in contact with the can the less likely it is the
contents of the can will exceed 212 degress and get anywhere near its boiling
point.

If you use a pressure cooker, you need to reduce the cooking
time...15-20 minutes is a plenty. Any more than that and you'll
probably overcook it.

zxcvbob wrote:
> Vox Humana wrote:
> > I can see how the contents of the can might
>
>> not cook evenly if isn't fully covered, but that is the opposite of
>> having
>> the can explode.
>>
>
> Making sure the can is fully submerged doesn't do anything except give
> you more water in the pot so it takes longer to boil dry while you're
> not watching it.
>
> It's a harmless but needless precaution. Just like sterilizing your
> jars before you fill them when you're gonna pressure-can them anyway.
>
> I think pressure cooking several unopened cans at once for an hour at 15
> pounds makes sense; the extra cans can be stored on the shelf ready-to-use.
>
> Best regards,
> Bob
>
>

How do you think non-acidic foods such as meats and fish are "canned"??
They're loaded into giant pressure cookers for processing.

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> Aurrggh! I don't know if this guy means to be funny or not, but NEVER
> heat any unopened can! In fact, this one should go in the kitchen myths
> thread. I don't know where people got the idea that heating condensed
> milk in the can makes caramel, but it is a bad idea. One of the brands
> has even started printing warnings on the label.
>
> And while I'm at admonitions, why the unrelated cross posts? (I erased
> them.)
>
> --Lia
>
>
> Vox Humana wrote:
>
>> The easy way to make Dulce De Leche is to put an unopened can of
>> sweetened
>> condensed milk into a small pan. Add water to bring it to about 3/4
>> the way
>> up the can. Bring to a boil and simmer for about an hour. Let cool
>> completely before opening. You can turn the can over after 30 minutes.
>> Store in a jar or plastic container. It should keep for a couple of
>> weeks
>> in the refrigerator, maybe more
>>
>> A quicker method is to use a pressure cooker. Cook at pressure for 30
>> minutes -- 45 minutes if you want it darker.
>>
>>
>

You have to simmer it for about 4 hours to get it the right colour. 1 hour
will hardly do anything. but keep the can covered, you can do many all at
once, qahtan



"JOAT" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi. Does anyone have a good recipe to make caramel or Dulce De Leche?
> And tips on how to store it in jars or cans?

Mike Stith wrote:
> How do you think non-acidic foods such as meats and fish are "canned"??
> They're loaded into giant pressure cookers for processing.
>

Yes, but when do they crimp on the lids? I have some old canning books
that deal with using metal cans. I'll look it up tonight, but I think the
lids are crimped after they come out of the autoclave.

Bob

Folks, please trim your headers before replying, to remove irrelevant groups.
This thread is cross-posted into rec.woodworking and rec.photo.equipment.35mm,
where it is obviously off-topic.

Thanks.

In article >, "qahtan"
> wrote:
> You have to simmer it for about 4 hours to get it the right colour. 1 hour
>will hardly do anything. but keep the can covered, you can do many all at
>once, qahtan
>
>
>
>"JOAT" > wrote in message
. com...
>> Hi. Does anyone have a good recipe to make caramel or Dulce De Leche?
>> And tips on how to store it in jars or cans?
>
>

The lids are put on before they're processed.

zxcvbob wrote:
> Mike Stith wrote:
>
>> How do you think non-acidic foods such as meats and fish are
>> "canned"?? They're loaded into giant pressure cookers for processing.
>>
>
> Yes, but when do they crimp on the lids? I have some old canning books
> that deal with using metal cans. I'll look it up tonight, but I think
> the lids are crimped after they come out of the autoclave.
>
> Bob
>

Joat,
Have you ever seen the cans of dulce de leche in the latin foods section of
your supermarket? It should be with the other canned condensed milks there.
They basically already did what you'd be doing for yourself if you heated a can
of sweetened condensed milk. It's the most delicious dulce de leche i've ever
had.

-Jen
Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright

JLove98905 wrote:
>
> Have you ever seen the cans of dulce de leche in the latin foods section of
> your supermarket? It should be with the other canned condensed milks there.
> They basically already did what you'd be doing for yourself if you heated a can
> of sweetened condensed milk. It's the most delicious dulce de leche i've ever
> had.

Pardon my ignorance, but what all can you do with this? Do you eat it as
is or is it an ingredient in other dishes?
Goomba

Goomba wrote:

> Pardon my ignorance, but what all can you do with this? Do you eat it as
> is or is it an ingredient in other dishes?

I put it on ice cream. Think melty caramel. I imagine people put
it on cakes and pies, stuff like that. You can buy it in the
ice cream topping section. I ... uh ... sometimes just eat it with
a spoon, but please don't tell anyone.

nancy

Nancy Young typed:
> Goomba wrote:
>
>> Pardon my ignorance, but what all can you do with this? Do you eat it as
>> is or is it an ingredient in other dishes?
>
> I put it on ice cream. Think melty caramel. I imagine people put
> it on cakes and pies, stuff like that. You can buy it in the
> ice cream topping section. I ... uh ... sometimes just eat it with
> a spoon, but please don't tell anyone.
>
> nancy

One spoon, 1 can Dulce De Leche, 1 jar Nutella.
Dip spoon in DDL, dip spoon in Nutella.
Lick spoon.

BOB

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:12:32 -0400, " BOB" > wrote:

>Nancy Young typed:
>> Goomba wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon my ignorance, but what all can you do with this? Do you eat it as
>>> is or is it an ingredient in other dishes?
>>
>> I put it on ice cream. Think melty caramel. I imagine people put
>> it on cakes and pies, stuff like that. You can buy it in the
>> ice cream topping section. I ... uh ... sometimes just eat it with
>> a spoon, but please don't tell anyone.

When I allow myself to eat such things that's the way I like it. Very
cold.

>One spoon, 1 can Dulce De Leche, 1 jar Nutella.
>Dip spoon in DDL, dip spoon in Nutella.
>Lick spoon.
>
>BOB
>

Dulce de Leche AND Nutella? Oh man, that's just too much. It sounds
wonderful, but my stomach would reach up and take me by the throat!

......Alan.


--
Curiosity killed the cat -
lack of it is killing mankind.

A.T. Hagan > typed:
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:12:32 -0400, " BOB" wrote:
>
>> Nancy Young typed:
>>> Goomba wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pardon my ignorance, but what all can you do with this? Do you eat it as
>>>> is or is it an ingredient in other dishes?
>>>
>>> I put it on ice cream. Think melty caramel. I imagine people put
>>> it on cakes and pies, stuff like that. You can buy it in the
>>> ice cream topping section. I ... uh ... sometimes just eat it with
>>> a spoon, but please don't tell anyone.
>
> When I allow myself to eat such things that's the way I like it. Very
> cold.
>
>> One spoon, 1 can Dulce De Leche, 1 jar Nutella.
>> Dip spoon in DDL, dip spoon in Nutella.
>> Lick spoon.
>>
>> BOB
>>
>
> Dulce de Leche AND Nutella? Oh man, that's just too much. It sounds
> wonderful, but my stomach would reach up and take me by the throat!
>
> .....Alan.

Two spoonfuls at the most.

BOB

"qahtan" > wrote in message > ...
> You have to simmer it for about 4 hours to get it the right colour. 1 hour
> will hardly do anything. but keep the can covered, you can do many all at
> once, qahtan

They do sell it already made in the can. It costs about 3 bucks a can.