"rosie" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 6, 10:20?am, zxcvbob > wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
> > "cybercat" > wrote
>
> >> "Nancy Young" > wrote
>
> >>> "Goomba38" > wrote
>
> >>>> That is for debit cards, not charge cards. When I use my AMEX
> >>>> at restaurants I'm never asked for a PIN.
> >>> My American Express information was stolen and used by someone in
> >>> a local store where no one took my card out of my sight. ?I don't
> >>> know about this swiping business, all they need to know is
> >>> printed right there on the card. ?I was lucky I just happened to
> >>> notice the charges piling up on my card while it was still only
> >>> $1700.
>
> >> I wonder how they did it?
>
> > Got me. ?They were busted for using other people's card info, too.
> > They not being the store, they being some employee.
>
> > nancy
>
> How about just a peculiar knack for memorizing numbers? ?I know that's
> low-tech, but it works.
>
> Bob- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Right , I know my AMEX number and , very handy.
Rosie

I am pretty good at knowing numbers, I renewed my drivers license yesterday
and rattled off the number and expiration date to the guy at the window and
he just stared at me and said 'how did you do that'.....I told him I was
'wonderfully gifted' and let him figure it out (snort). I also memorized my
bank account number, my visa number and all the associated pin numbers. Now
for the alphabetical passwords I have for different computer accounts,
forget it. I'm lucky if I get the signon name spelled correctly (and I was
alway a reely gud speler and sucked at math).
-ginny

q wrote:
> Janet Baraclough said...
>
>> The message >
>> from "Andy <q>" <q> contains these words:
>>
>> . My #1 Bud has a non-stop 24-hour voice (except during sleep which
>>> takes alcohol to accomplish) in his head from a long meth binge. The
>>> only way
>>> he can shut it off is by talking. When we speak, I can hardly get a
>>> word in edgewise. Began 1991. Refuses medical help.
>>
>> Has he tried listening to a walkman with ear plugs? Some people
>> with that problem find it helps to either drown out the voice, or
>> even shut it up.
>>
>> Janet
>
>
> He tried some psycho meds but it layed him out for days. Might have
> worked if he didn't have a job and kids and a wife to support.
>
> He does have a blue tooth earpiece in one ear to his iPhone but how
> could you work under those circumstances. Hardly a solution to the
> problem.
>
> Andy

Sounds like the "solution" is involuntary committment to a psych/rehab
facility. How can he maintain a job to support his family when he's going
on meth binges???

Jill

Michael "Dog3" wrote:
> "Julie Bove" > dropped this
> news:re06j.7818$QS.3149@trndny03: in rec.food.cooking
>
>>
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> "Goomba38" > wrote
>>>
>>>> That is for debit cards, not charge cards. When I use my AMEX at
>>>> restaurants I'm never asked for a PIN.
>>>
>>> My American Express information was stolen and used by
>>> someone in a local store where no one took my card out of
>>> my sight. I don't know about this swiping business, all they
>>> need to know is printed right there on the card. I was
>>> lucky I just happened to notice the charges piling up on my
>>> card while it was still only $1700.
>>
>> Happened to me with my debit card. Some guy tried to buy a laptop
>> computer at Overstock.com with it. Luckily, Overstock realized it
>> wasn't me. Now how my Paypal account got hacked the other day is
>> beyond me. Luckily I was online at the time but what a horrible
>> thing to watch the hack taking place right before your eyes. Two
>> charges were put on the account. I got a refund on the first one
>> but am waiting to for the second one to respond. Since that's a porn
>> site, I am not too hopeful.
>
> For some reason I've had bad luck with PayPal the past couple of
> years. I don't know if it is because eBay took over PayPal or what.
> They are always real good and quick resolving issues but I've just
> had issues with them.
>
> Michael

I never "keep" money in my PayPal account. If I need to purchase something
using PayPal I transfer only the funds I need for the purchase. Since the
most I've ever put in there is about $15 (filters for Persia's Drinkwell pet
fountain purchased on eBay) it's hardly worth hacking

Jill

jmcquown said...

> q wrote:
>> Janet Baraclough said...
>>
>>> The message >
>>> from "Andy <q>" <q> contains these words:
>>>
>>> . My #1 Bud has a non-stop 24-hour voice (except during sleep which
>>>> takes alcohol to accomplish) in his head from a long meth binge. The
>>>> only way
>>>> he can shut it off is by talking. When we speak, I can hardly get a
>>>> word in edgewise. Began 1991. Refuses medical help.
>>>
>>> Has he tried listening to a walkman with ear plugs? Some people
>>> with that problem find it helps to either drown out the voice, or
>>> even shut it up.
>>>
>>> Janet
>>
>>
>> He tried some psycho meds but it layed him out for days. Might have
>> worked if he didn't have a job and kids and a wife to support.
>>
>> He does have a blue tooth earpiece in one ear to his iPhone but how
>> could you work under those circumstances. Hardly a solution to the
>> problem.
>>
>> Andy
>
> Sounds like the "solution" is involuntary committment to a psych/rehab
> facility. How can he maintain a job to support his family when he's
going
> on meth binges???
>
> Jill


His last binge was in 1991 after the damage had already been done.. Been at
him ever since.

Andy

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 10:29:06 -0600, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

>I never "keep" money in my PayPal account. If I need to purchase something
>using PayPal I transfer only the funds I need for the purchase. Since the
>most I've ever put in there is about $15 (filters for Persia's Drinkwell pet
>fountain purchased on eBay) it's hardly worth hacking

We've never had a problem with paypal other than the annoying scam
attempts. We sell a lot on eBay so unless we're planning on
purchasing something, Louise takes it out when its get over a few
hundred dollars.

Lou

In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> "zxcvbob" > wrote
>
> > Nancy Young wrote:
> >> "cybercat" > wrote
> >>
> >>> "Nancy Young" > wrote
> >>
> >>>> "Goomba38" > wrote
> >>>>
> >>>>> That is for debit cards, not charge cards. When I use my AMEX
> >>>>> at restaurants I'm never asked for a PIN.
> >>>> My American Express information was stolen and used by someone in
> >>>> a local store where no one took my card out of my sight. I don't
> >>>> know about this swiping business, all they need to know is
> >>>> printed right there on the card. I was lucky I just happened to
> >>>> notice the charges piling up on my card while it was still only
> >>>> $1700.
> >>
> >>> I wonder how they did it?
> >>
> >> Got me. They were busted for using other people's card info, too.
> >> They not being the store, they being some employee.
> >
> > How about just a peculiar knack for memorizing numbers? I know that's
> > low-tech, but it works.
>
> (laugh!) I actually said that, then deleted it. All the information they
> need is printed right on the card, if someone is so inclined, what's to
> stop them from memorizing it?


Of course, some people have pencils. They aren't hard to acquire.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"Dan Abel" > wrote

> "Nancy Young" > wrote:

>> (laugh!) I actually said that, then deleted it. All the information
>> they
>> need is printed right on the card, if someone is so inclined, what's to
>> stop them from memorizing it?

> Of course, some people have pencils. They aren't hard to acquire.

Heh. True, but I think even someone as oblivious as I can be
would notice someone writing down my credit card number.

nancy

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 10:29:06 -0600, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

>I never "keep" money in my PayPal account. If I need to purchase something
>using PayPal I transfer only the funds I need for the purchase. Since the
>most I've ever put in there is about $15 (filters for Persia's Drinkwell pet
>fountain purchased on eBay) it's hardly worth hacking

I've gotten too many phishing emails from "Paypal" concerning a
problem with my account to trust it.

sf
who has never used paypal and never will.

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Normally there's a long wait unless you get there very early. It's a
> > shame the owner is reporting business has dropped off because of this
> > scheme. It was certainly not her fault.
> >
> > Jill
> >
>
> I think I'd use cash the next time I went.


I don't think I would be going back. I once took my wife out for a nice
lunch at a fairly new restaurant.It was nice place with good food. I paid
with Visa. When my Visa bill came in I was surprised to see two charges at
the same restuarant, one of them two days after the day we ate ther. I
called up Visa, they called the restaurant amd got some excuse about how
they thought it had not gone through properly. They were supopsed to
credut me. The credit didn't show up on the next bill. I called Visa again.
they were supposed to call the restaurant and get hard copies, and if my
signature wasn't on the bill I would not be liable for it. It went on for
months. Visa would call once in a while, and I would call them. One day
about 6 months later. I passed by while working and went in (in uniform)
and demanded repayment. They paid.

Visa happened to call a few days later and asked if it had been settled and
I told them I had collected the money. The lady said she was glad to hear
that because with the time that had passed it would be hard to get it
credited. That surprised me, since I called them as soon as I got my bill.
I have not been back to the restaurant, and I don't use Visa much any more.

For my two cents..... any business caught skimming money through bank cards
or credit cards should automatically be cut off those service.

I am now a lot more careful about where I use cards. Due to the number of
incidents I have heard of from friends of mine, I don't use cards in places
run by Muslims or Russians.

> "rosie" > wrote in message

>
> Right , I know my AMEX number and , very handy.
> Rosie

I don't believe you. Prove it by posting the number here.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 23:14:13 -0500, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>> "rosie" > wrote in message
>
>>
>> Right , I know my AMEX number and , very handy.
>> Rosie
>
>I don't believe you. Prove it by posting the number here.
>

LOL! Actually, my SIL is the same way. She knows all of her credit
card and billing numbers. I used to know my check number when I used
my checkbook daily. Now I don't even give it a glance, so the numbers
have fled my brain. My driver's license number hasn't changed since I
was 16, so it's burned into my memory, but car licence plates? I
quite memorizing them after my third car.

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first

On Dec 7, 10:14�pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
> > "rosie" > wrote in message
>
> > Right , I know my AMEX number and , very handy.
> > Rosie
>
> I don't believe you. �Prove it by posting the number here.

too funny....

Rosie

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:


> For my two cents..... any business caught skimming money through bank cards
> or credit cards should automatically be cut off those service.

I suspect that it is seldom the business. They need to stay in
business. It is the employees. They lose their job? Well, they just
get another one. They take your credit card and stop off at the
restroom. Once the stall door is locked, they have everything.

Doesn't sound like it was the case for you, but it happens.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Dec 7, 9:11 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:


When my Visa bill came in I was surprised to see two charges at
> the same restuarant, one of them two days after the day we ate ther.

I don't even wait for the bill to come in. I call my cr. cd's
automated service every morning or check the online site and check on
the total and recent activity. It takes about a minute and is worth
the peace of mind. I don't want to wait as long as a month for any
nasty surprises to show up. Barney Fife checking out here -"Nip it in
the bud."

In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> "Dan Abel" > wrote
>
> > "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>
> >> (laugh!) I actually said that, then deleted it. All the information
> >> they
> >> need is printed right on the card, if someone is so inclined, what's to
> >> stop them from memorizing it?
>
> > Of course, some people have pencils. They aren't hard to acquire.
>
> Heh. True, but I think even someone as oblivious as I can be
> would notice someone writing down my credit card number.

Other than fast food places, I've never been to a real restaurant where
they didn't take your credit card to some secret place to process it.
I'm sure you could follow them to make sure they didn't write down the
info, but I've never seen anybody do that. There are some problems with
this scenario, depending on the layout, but who would notice if a server
took a detour to record this information?

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:49:13 -0800 (PST), val189
> wrote:

>On Dec 7, 9:11 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>
> When my Visa bill came in I was surprised to see two charges at
>> the same restuarant, one of them two days after the day we ate ther.
>
>I don't even wait for the bill to come in. I call my cr. cd's
>automated service every morning or check the online site and check on
>the total and recent activity. It takes about a minute and is worth
>the peace of mind. I don't want to wait as long as a month for any
>nasty surprises to show up. Barney Fife checking out here -"Nip it in
>the bud."

Hubby does that too. He checks the checking account also.

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first

"Dan Abel" > wrote

> In article >,
> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>
>> "Dan Abel" > wrote
>>
>> > "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>>
>> >> (laugh!) I actually said that, then deleted it. All the information
>> >> they
>> >> need is printed right on the card, if someone is so inclined, what's
>> >> to
>> >> stop them from memorizing it?
>>
>> > Of course, some people have pencils. They aren't hard to acquire.
>>
>> Heh. True, but I think even someone as oblivious as I can be
>> would notice someone writing down my credit card number.
>
> Other than fast food places, I've never been to a real restaurant where
> they didn't take your credit card to some secret place to process it.
> I'm sure you could follow them to make sure they didn't write down the
> info, but I've never seen anybody do that. There are some problems with
> this scenario, depending on the layout, but who would notice if a server
> took a detour to record this information?

No question. My situation was lost in the mists of time ... employees
at a store where I shopped stole credit card data and used it. We
were discussing how they could have accomplished that, since the
card never left my sight.

nancy

Doug Weller > wrote:

>On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 08:45:47 -0500, in rec.food.cooking, Goomba38 wrote:

>>Janet Baraclough wrote:

>>> When the card is in the machine and has been verified, the payer enters
>>> a PIN on the keypad (4-digit Personal Id Number). Out of view of the
>>> waiter.The transaction won't go through without the correct PIN.
>>>
>>> Janet. (UK)

>>That is for debit cards, not charge cards. When I use my AMEX at
>>restaurants I'm never asked for a PIN.

That's because it's a U.S. card without a PIN (or at least, a pin
of the type they need).

>In the UK? I doubt it. If you don't use your pin, the vendor is
>responsible for any fraud.

The algorithm is -- UK or Euro card with pin -- vendor requires pin;
U.S. card -- no pin required. The algorithm propogated rapidly,
soon after the switch even remote 2-pence vendors knew how to
handle the different cards.

S.
>Doug
>--
>Doug Weller --
>A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
>Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
>Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/
>

jmcquown > wrote:

>Sounds like the "solution" is involuntary committment to a psych/rehab
>facility. How can he maintain a job to support his family when he's going
>on meth binges???

I read this as the "voice in head" being a permanent effect
of past meth use, rather than from doing meth currently.

Although either is possible, especially with impure street meth.

Steve

> wrote:

>> I never "keep" money in my PayPal account. If I need to purchase
>> something using PayPal I transfer only the funds I need for the
>> purchase.

>I've gotten too many phishing emails from "Paypal" concerning a
>problem with my account to trust it.

>sf
>who has never used paypal and never will.

I would not open a paypal account. Dealing with the probable
fraud, although it would not ultimately cause financial loss,
would be too much hassle. In general I open as few financial
accounts as possible and try to pick most trusted institutions.

Many vendors allow one-shot Paypal use now so it is not so
important anymore for the purchaser to have an account.

Steve

Dan Abel > wrote:

> Dave Smith > wrote:

>> For my two cents..... any business caught skimming money through bank cards
>> or credit cards should automatically be cut off those service.

>I suspect that it is seldom the business. They need to stay in
>business. It is the employees. They lose their job? Well, they just
>get another one. They take your credit card and stop off at the
>restroom. Once the stall door is locked, they have everything.

>Doesn't sound like it was the case for you, but it happens.

I read of one case where a restautant employee carefully stole
just a few credit card numbers per month, and after about a year
had passed and he had left that job, he hit all the stolen cards
all at once.

It took some amount of time (months) for credit-industry computers
to notice that an unusual amount of fraud had occured at cards
used at one restaurant.

This is among the many simple schemes that a European-style PIN
would protect against. But U.S. banks reckon U.S. consumers would
rather shoulder the cost of fraud than punch in a PIN.

Steve

On Dec 9, 10:46�am, Steve Pope wrote:

> This is among the many simple schemes that a
> European-style PIN would protect against. �But U.S.
> banks reckon U.S. consumers would rather shoulder
> the cost of fraud than punch in a PIN.

My USA style PIN is a four digit number. Is a European
PIN different?

KevinS > wrote:

>On Dec 9, 10:46�am, Steve Pope wrote:

>> This is among the many simple schemes that a
>> European-style PIN would protect against. �But U.S.
>> banks reckon U.S. consumers would rather shoulder
>> the cost of fraud than punch in a PIN.

>My USA style PIN is a four digit number. Is a European
>PIN different?

Yes, in that you can use a USA credit card to make a
purchase without the PIN[*], whereas you can't use a
European credit card to make a purchase without a PIN.

Steve
[*] At least, I don't know of any USA credit cards that
require PIN use. Possibly they exist.

sf wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:23:50 -0600, "jmcquown" >
> wrote:
>
>> Normally there's a long wait unless you get there very early. It's a shame
>> the owner is reporting business has dropped off because of this scheme. It
>> was certainly not her fault.
>
> It's time more restaurants adopted the European style portable card
> readers. Your credit card never leaves your sight, so there is less
> room for fraud.
>

Until someone sets up an RFID scanner to grab the card info while it is
in your hand. Anytime you use any electronic device there is always the
possibility for exploits.

Thats also why I like cash. I count the change and go on with life.
There is also the side advantage that the banks are not being enriched
with all of those 3% fees that the merchant pays when you use a CC.

cybercat wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Goomba38" > wrote
>>
>>> That is for debit cards, not charge cards. When I use my AMEX at
>>> restaurants I'm never asked for a PIN.
>> My American Express information was stolen and used by
>> someone in a local store where no one took my card out of
>> my sight. I don't know about this swiping business, all they
>> need to know is printed right there on the card. I was
>> lucky I just happened to notice the charges piling up on my
>> card while it was still only $1700.
>>
>
> I wonder how they did it?
>
>

Some stores don't care about your privacy and security and run the back
end on the cheap. tjmax is a good example. They are a known sleazy
operation (ask anyone who does business with them). They cluelessly
installed unsecured wireless access points in their stores that were
directly connected to their corporate network. Hackers had a bonanza
gathering data (not only CC info but drivers license info too)for over a
year. Now they are being sued because of that.

http://www.news.com/T.J.-Maxx-probe-...html?tag=st.nl

In article >,
says...
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 17:53:00 -0500, T >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >, says...
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >> I never "keep" money in my PayPal account. If I need to purchase
> >> >> something using PayPal I transfer only the funds I need for the
> >> >> purchase.
> >>
> >> >I've gotten too many phishing emails from "Paypal" concerning a
> >> >problem with my account to trust it.
> >>
> >> >sf
> >> >who has never used paypal and never will.
> >>
> >> I would not open a paypal account. Dealing with the probable
> >> fraud, although it would not ultimately cause financial loss,
> >> would be too much hassle. In general I open as few financial
> >> accounts as possible and try to pick most trusted institutions.
> >>
> >> Many vendors allow one-shot Paypal use now so it is not so
> >> important anymore for the purchaser to have an account.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >
> >I haven't had any problems with Paypal. But then I buy from sources I
> >know already so I don't encounter much fraud.
> >
> >I also don't accept Paypal on my ebay auctions.
>
> Why don't you accept paypal?
>
> Lou
>
>

Been burned a few times using that method.

Now it's MO or Cashiers check only.

In article >,
lid says...
> sf wrote:
> > On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:23:50 -0600, "jmcquown" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Normally there's a long wait unless you get there very early. It's a shame
> >> the owner is reporting business has dropped off because of this scheme. It
> >> was certainly not her fault.
> >
> > It's time more restaurants adopted the European style portable card
> > readers. Your credit card never leaves your sight, so there is less
> > room for fraud.
> >
>
> Until someone sets up an RFID scanner to grab the card info while it is
> in your hand. Anytime you use any electronic device there is always the
> possibility for exploits.
>
> Thats also why I like cash. I count the change and go on with life.
> There is also the side advantage that the banks are not being enriched
> with all of those 3% fees that the merchant pays when you use a CC.
>

Speaking of RFID, that's already becoming prevalent for MasterCard
holders. Most terminals in places like CVS etc. have the SpeedPass
system.

And I've seen some that accept both MC and VISA now.

Just wave your card in front of it.

This is one that makes me very cautious. I've seen far too many RFID
hacks to think this is going to be secure.

In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> KevinS > wrote:
>
> >On Dec 9, 10:46�am, Steve Pope wrote:
>
> >> This is among the many simple schemes that a
> >> European-style PIN would protect against. �But U.S.
> >> banks reckon U.S. consumers would rather shoulder
> >> the cost of fraud than punch in a PIN.
>
> >My USA style PIN is a four digit number. Is a European
> >PIN different?
>
> Yes, in that you can use a USA credit card to make a
> purchase without the PIN[*], whereas you can't use a
> European credit card to make a purchase without a PIN.
>
> Steve
>
>[*] At least, I don't know of any USA credit cards that
> require PIN use. Possibly they exist.

All US credit cards have a PIN. However, it's printed on the back, so
it isn't at all secure.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Dan Abel > wrote:

>All US credit cards have a PIN. However, it's printed on the back, so
>it isn't at all secure.

Okay, that I hadn't heard.


Steve

Steve Pope wrote:
> Dan Abel > wrote:
>
>> All US credit cards have a PIN. However, it's printed on the back, so
>> it isn't at all secure.
>
> Okay, that I hadn't heard.
>
>
> Steve
Its called a "CSV". It is supposed to be used as an additional check.
Some cheepo merchants (like tjmax) were actually storing the CSV with
the CC number and other information in an unencrypted database. The CSV
is only supposed to be used for the transaction and never saved. When
tjmax got hacked because they were totally insecure they conveniently
supplied the CC & CSV numbers and matching personal information.

Steve Pope > wrote:

> whereas you can't use a
> European credit card to make a purchase without a PIN.

That's news to me.

ObFood: Minced beetroot à la crème, from _Cooking in Ten Minutes_ by
Edouard de Pomiane. I often replace thick cream with sour cream or
crème fraîche.

Victor

Minced beetroot à la crème

Peel and wash half a pound of beetroot cooked in the oven. Dry it.
Heat some butter in a frying pan until it smokes. Warm the beetroot in
it. Salt. Add a teaspoonful of vinegar. The beetroot immediately
turns a flaming hue. Add two ounces of thick cream. Mix. Warm for two
minutes. Serve with vinegar and salt. Arrange in a small dish. Cover
it with a blanket of thick cream. Serve as a hors d'oeuvre.

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:00:52 -0500, T >
wrote:

>> >I also don't accept Paypal on my ebay auctions.
>>
>> Why don't you accept paypal?
>>
>> Lou
>>
>>
>
>Been burned a few times using that method.
>
>Now it's MO or Cashiers check only.


We've had different experiences I guess. CC's and MO's aren't even
fool proof anymore. We've just starting requiring a postal MO for
those that don't use PP. It's too much of a pita to try to see when a
check has cleared before we ship. We're at the PO 3-4 times a week so
we just cash them there. We ship 30-40 things a month and 99% is
paypal. I'm curious how you got burned? Some time ago we sold
something for about $170.00. The second highest bidder was just a few
dollars behind. Someone contacted them and said the highest bidder
had backed out, gave them new paypal info, and told them they could
have it when they paid. Luckily for them they contacted us and asked
how quick we could ship. We told them the item had been paid for and
shipped, and they were being scammed. There's some real assholes out
there and nothing seems to be perfect.

Lou

George > wrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>> Dan Abel > wrote:

>>> All US credit cards have a PIN. However, it's printed on the back, so
>>> it isn't at all secure.

>> Okay, that I hadn't heard.

>Its called a "CSV". It is supposed to be used as an additional check.
>Some cheepo merchants (like tjmax) were actually storing the CSV with
>the CC number and other information in an unencrypted database. The CSV
>is only supposed to be used for the transaction and never saved.

If they saved the CSV's, then used them in later transactions,
that would probably be a violation of the merchant agreements.
The banks charge marginally less for the transaction if
the CSV is provided by the customer.

Steve

In article <dabel-F489AB.13125710122007@c-61-68-245-
199.per.connect.net.au>, says...
> In article >,
> (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
> > KevinS > wrote:
> >
> > >On Dec 9, 10:46ï¿=3Fam, Steve Pope wrote:
> >
> > >> This is among the many simple schemes that a
> > >> European-style PIN would protect against. ï¿=3FBut U.S.
> > >> banks reckon U.S. consumers would rather shoulder
> > >> the cost of fraud than punch in a PIN.
> >
> > >My USA style PIN is a four digit number. Is a European
> > >PIN different?
> >
> > Yes, in that you can use a USA credit card to make a
> > purchase without the PIN[*], whereas you can't use a
> > European credit card to make a purchase without a PIN.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >[*] At least, I don't know of any USA credit cards that
> > require PIN use. Possibly they exist.
>
> All US credit cards have a PIN. However, it's printed on the back, so
> it isn't at all secure.
>
>

No, that number printed on the back of the card is the verification
number. That along with the digits from your street address and five
digit zip code should be enough to identify you.

The problem is, don't dare move. I moved about a year ago. On some sites
my card works with the current address. On others I have to use my old
address.

In article >,
says...
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:00:52 -0500, T >
> wrote:
>
> >> >I also don't accept Paypal on my ebay auctions.
> >>
> >> Why don't you accept paypal?
> >>
> >> Lou
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Been burned a few times using that method.
> >
> >Now it's MO or Cashiers check only.
>
>
> We've had different experiences I guess. CC's and MO's aren't even
> fool proof anymore. We've just starting requiring a postal MO for
> those that don't use PP. It's too much of a pita to try to see when a
> check has cleared before we ship. We're at the PO 3-4 times a week so
> we just cash them there. We ship 30-40 things a month and 99% is
> paypal. I'm curious how you got burned? Some time ago we sold
> something for about $170.00. The second highest bidder was just a few
> dollars behind. Someone contacted them and said the highest bidder
> had backed out, gave them new paypal info, and told them they could
> have it when they paid. Luckily for them they contacted us and asked
> how quick we could ship. We told them the item had been paid for and
> shipped, and they were being scammed. There's some real assholes out
> there and nothing seems to be perfect.
>
> Lou

Indeed, I've seen this scam run before. Thanks for the tip on postal
money orders.

Victor Sack > wrote:

>Steve Pope > wrote:

>> whereas you can't use a
>> European credit card to make a purchase without a PIN.

>That's news to me.

http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/

It seemed to be universal in the UK and Italy last time I
was there. Not sure about elsewhere.

There are some exceptions; from the above:

After 14 February 2006 things got tougher for the
fraudsters, as everyone using chip and PIN cards now
has to use their PIN to be sure they can pay.

There are a number of important exceptions where
cardholders can continue to sign:

cardholders who have an old style card that has yet to be upgraded
cardholders from overseas who have an old style card that
has yet to be upgraded
disabled cardholders who have a chip and signature card

Steve

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:30:13 -0500, T >
wrote:


>>
>> We've had different experiences I guess. CC's and MO's aren't even
>> fool proof anymore. We've just starting requiring a postal MO for
>> those that don't use PP. It's too much of a pita to try to see when a
>> check has cleared before we ship. We're at the PO 3-4 times a week so
>> we just cash them there. We ship 30-40 things a month and 99% is
>> paypal. I'm curious how you got burned? Some time ago we sold
>> something for about $170.00. The second highest bidder was just a few
>> dollars behind. Someone contacted them and said the highest bidder
>> had backed out, gave them new paypal info, and told them they could
>> have it when they paid. Luckily for them they contacted us and asked
>> how quick we could ship. We told them the item had been paid for and
>> shipped, and they were being scammed. There's some real assholes out
>> there and nothing seems to be perfect.
>>
>> Lou
>
>Indeed, I've seen this scam run before.

I'm sure there's many more.

>Thanks for the tip on postal
>money orders.

Makes things easier for the seller, and the buyer gets product sooner.

Lou

Dave Smith wrote:

> I am now a lot more careful about where I use cards. Due to the number of
> incidents I have heard of from friends of mine, I don't use cards in places
> run by Muslims or Russians.


Or Arabs...

Used my Visa down the street at an Arab - run convenience store, when
I got the bill they had triple - charged me (it was not for a large
amount). Heard this from other people, too...

I NAILED the f*ckers when I called the City of Chicago Health Dept. on
them and turned them in - they were turning OFF their fridge and
freezer cases at night to save on the power bill so those items were
spoiling. City also got 'em for taxes, saw a big orange Department of
Revenue "closed" sticker on the door shortly after...

Guess they forgot they weren't running a store in the heart of the
ghetto...

:-)

Russians and Arabs (and Muslims) are TOTALLY dishonest, they'll always
try to cheat or take advantage or whatever...they've a thieving
mindset. You have to realise that graft, cheating, corruption, are
ingrained in their cultures...that's why those places are such
********s to live in.


--
Best
Greg

In article >,
"jmcquown" > wrote:

> A waitress at Mr. B's Restaurant in Germantown, TN was caught using a
> concealed card reader to steal customer's credit card numbers. Police
> arrested her and the man allegedly behind the scheme to swipe credit card
> information in establishments all over the mid-south.
>
> http://www.wmctv.com/global/story.asp?s=7437236
>
> OB Food: Mr. B's has excellent prime steaks. And the last time I was there
> for lunch one of my friends ordered ordered the smothered pork chop. I
> couldn't believe the size of it! It was almost 3 inches thick, but so
> tender she cut it with a fork. I usually order country fried steak and 2
> veggies at lunchtime and a petite filet with a baked potato and a veggie if
> I'm there for dinner.
>
> They have a nice selection of vegetables if you prefer a veggie plate (and
> no, they aren't cooked to death canned veggies). The choices vary depending
> upon what they can get fresh in season, except for the southern-style white
> (Great Northern) beans with ham which are canned. But then, I usually use
> canned beans when I make them at home. This is one of the few restaurants
> where I've seen fresh brussels sprouts on the "sides" menu from time to time
>
>
> Normally there's a long wait unless you get there very early. It's a shame
> the owner is reporting business has dropped off because of this scheme. It
> was certainly not her fault.

That really sucks. This goes to show you that small business owners who
rely on employees to process credit card transactions have to watch them
like a hawk.

Stan Horwitz wrote:

>
> That really sucks. This goes to show you that small business owners who
> rely on employees to process credit card transactions have to watch them
> like a hawk.

I would be more concerned about big box restaurants. Some of the most
carelessly and cluelessly run places are the mega over advertised big
box places.