Can anyone discuss 'binding' as in adding flour to a potato mixture or
a meatloaf?
What's actually happening? how do you know you've added enough flour
or matzo meal? - Mike

Mike wrote:
> Can anyone discuss 'binding' as in adding flour to a potato mixture or
> a meatloaf?
> What's actually happening? how do you know you've added enough flour
> or matzo meal? - Mike

I've never *heard* of a meatloaf recipe that included raw flour. It
sounds like a seriously bad idea.
I always assumed breadcrumbs, oats and other such additives worked by
swelling and absorbing liquids (fat from meat, liquid from vegetable and
other liquid additions) which is how they work to bind the loaf
together. I may be wrong....?

Goomba38 wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>> Can anyone discuss 'binding' as in adding flour to a potato mixture
>> or a meatloaf?
>> What's actually happening? how do you know you've added enough flour
>> or matzo meal? - Mike
>
> I've never *heard* of a meatloaf recipe that included raw flour. It
> sounds like a seriously bad idea.

I agree! Never heard of that in meatloaf, either. I do lightly dust potato
pancakes (the ones made from cold leftover mashed potatoes) with flour.
Guess it helps hold them together by soaking up some excess moisture.
<shrug> It's the way Grandma Brown and my mom did it, so I do, too.

> I always assumed breadcrumbs, oats and other such additives worked by
> swelling and absorbing liquids (fat from meat, liquid from vegetable
> and other liquid additions) which is how they work to bind the loaf
> together. I may be wrong....?

That's the principle. I use oats (the quick cooking rolled kind) in
meatloaf.

Jill

"Mike" > wrote in message
...
> Can anyone discuss 'binding' as in adding flour to a potato mixture or
> a meatloaf?
> What's actually happening? how do you know you've added enough flour
> or matzo meal? - Mike

I don't think the bread crumbs bind meatloaf. They absorb the juice and
make the meatloaf more tender; it is the egg that binds it. Without the
crumbs, the meatloaf becomes a hard piece of ground beef. With bread crumbs
and no egg, it will be soft and falling apart. Too much bread crumbs make
it mushy.

Unlike latkes, potato pancakes are awful heavy, pasty things I can't stand
to put in my mouth. I'm not sure what the matzo does for the latkes. It
might make them a bit lighter. Latkes also have egg, which could be the
binder.

Mitch

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> Goomba38 wrote:
>> Mike wrote:
>>> Can anyone discuss 'binding' as in adding flour to a potato mixture
>>> or a meatloaf?
>>> What's actually happening? how do you know you've added enough flour
>>> or matzo meal? - Mike
>>
>> I've never *heard* of a meatloaf recipe that included raw flour. It
>> sounds like a seriously bad idea.
>
> I agree! Never heard of that in meatloaf, either. I do lightly dust
> potato
> pancakes (the ones made from cold leftover mashed potatoes) with flour.
> Guess it helps hold them together by soaking up some excess moisture.
> <shrug> It's the way Grandma Brown and my mom did it, so I do, too.
>
>> I always assumed breadcrumbs, oats and other such additives worked by
>> swelling and absorbing liquids (fat from meat, liquid from vegetable
>> and other liquid additions) which is how they work to bind the loaf
>> together. I may be wrong....?
>
> That's the principle. I use oats (the quick cooking rolled kind) in
> meatloaf.
>
> Jill
>
>


That sounds interesting. How much oats per how much meat? I'm OK with "oh
about a handful", if that's your preferred unit of measure. :-)

Oh pshaw, on Thu 06 Dec 2007 12:09:16p, Mitch Scherer meant to say...

> "Mike" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Can anyone discuss 'binding' as in adding flour to a potato mixture or
>> a meatloaf?
>> What's actually happening? how do you know you've added enough flour
>> or matzo meal? - Mike
>
> I don't think the bread crumbs bind meatloaf. They absorb the juice and
> make the meatloaf more tender; it is the egg that binds it. Without the
> crumbs, the meatloaf becomes a hard piece of ground beef. With bread
> crumbs and no egg, it will be soft and falling apart. Too much bread
> crumbs make it mushy.
>
> Unlike latkes, potato pancakes are awful heavy, pasty things I can't
> stand to put in my mouth. I'm not sure what the matzo does for the
> latkes. It might make them a bit lighter. Latkes also have egg, which
> could be the binder.
>
> Mitch
>
>
>

Then by potato pancakes, you're referring to those made from mashed
potatoes? We've always called those potato patties. To me, latkes and
potatoe pancakes are the same animal, er, vegetable.

FWIW, I like potato patties, too.

--
Wayne Boatwright

Date: Thu, 12(XII)/6(VI)/2007(MMVII)

*******************************************
Countdown 'til Christmas
2wks 2dys 12hrs
*******************************************
Common sense can't be all that common
since so many people claim to not have any.
*******************************************

On Dec 6, 10:03 am, Mike > wrote:
> Can anyone discuss 'binding' as in adding flour to a potato mixture or
> a meatloaf?
> What's actually happening? how do you know you've added enough flour
> or matzo meal? - Mike

I don't ever add flour to meatloaf - an egg or two is perfectly
adequate for making it stay together.

For potato cakes, it's a good bet that if you can form a patty of some
sort, either by dropping a glob into the hot grease with a spoon, or
even forming a patty by hand, it's got enough. Start out with a
little - add more only if needed.

Flour "binds" because it's a thickening agent.

N.

Nancy2 wrote:
>
> I don't ever add flour to meatloaf - an egg or two is perfectly
> adequate for making it stay together.

I use an egg and some bread crumbs for meat loaf. It sucks up some of the
fat and juice to maintain flavour, and it adds a nice texture.

On Dec 6, 1:09 pm, "Mitch Scherer" > wrote:
> "Mike" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Can anyone discuss 'binding' as in adding flour to a potato mixture or
> > a meatloaf?
> > What's actually happening? how do you know you've added enough flour
> > or matzo meal? - Mike
>
> I don't think the bread crumbs bind meatloaf. They absorb the juice and
> make the meatloaf more tender; it is the egg that binds it. Without the
> crumbs, the meatloaf becomes a hard piece of ground beef. With bread crumbs
> and no egg, it will be soft and falling apart. Too much bread crumbs make
> it mushy.
>
> Unlike latkes, potato pancakes are awful heavy, pasty things I can't stand
> to put in my mouth. I'm not sure what the matzo does for the latkes. It
> might make them a bit lighter. Latkes also have egg, which could be the
> binder.
>
> Mitch


I love potato pancakes - but I never saw a recipe, I just mix left-
over mashed potatoes with an egg (I never have more than a cup to 2
cups of potatoes), diced onion, parsley, garlic, seasoned salt &
pepper - drop into patties into hot oil and fry on one side, then the
other, until brown. Yum. Nothing horribly heavy about them, nor
pasty, either. I generally don't add any flour, or if I do, it's a T.
or so. I don't mind that they are crispy on the outside and kinda
soft in the inside. Perfect. ;-)

N.

On Dec 6, 1:58 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> Nancy2 wrote:
>
> > I don't ever add flour to meatloaf - an egg or two is perfectly
> > adequate for making it stay together.
>
> I use an egg and some bread crumbs for meat loaf. It sucks up some of the
> fat and juice to maintain flavour, and it adds a nice texture.


Ja, I've used very fine cracker crumbs, too.

N.

Nancy2 wrote:
>
> On Dec 6, 1:58 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> > Nancy2 wrote:
> >
> > > I don't ever add flour to meatloaf - an egg or two is perfectly
> > > adequate for making it stay together.
> >
> > I use an egg and some bread crumbs for meat loaf. It sucks up some of the
> > fat and juice to maintain flavour, and it adds a nice texture.
>
> Ja, I've used very fine cracker crumbs, too.

I have done it with crackers, dried bread crumbs and oatmeal, but find
fresh fresh bread crumbs (soaked in milk) to be best.

Oh pshaw, on Thu 06 Dec 2007 03:52:34p, Dave Smith meant to say...

>
>
> Nancy2 wrote:
>>
>> On Dec 6, 1:58 pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
>> > Nancy2 wrote:
>> >
>> > > I don't ever add flour to meatloaf - an egg or two is perfectly
>> > > adequate for making it stay together.
>> >
>> > I use an egg and some bread crumbs for meat loaf. It sucks up some of
>> > the fat and juice to maintain flavour, and it adds a nice texture.
>>
>> Ja, I've used very fine cracker crumbs, too.
>
> I have done it with crackers, dried bread crumbs and oatmeal, but find
> fresh fresh bread crumbs (soaked in milk) to be best.
>

I especially like meatloaf made using crushed saltine crackers. I am not a
fan of "soak the bread in water or milk and squeeze it out" method.
Breadcrumbs, fresh or dried, are fine though.

--
Wayne Boatwright

Date: 12(XII)/6(VI)/07(MMVII)

*******************************************
Countdown 'til Christmas
2wks 2dys 8hrs
*******************************************
Facts are stupid things. (Ronald
Reagan, 1988 Republican Convention)
*******************************************

Mike > wrote:

> Can anyone discuss 'binding' as in adding flour to a potato mixture or
> a meatloaf?

I wouldn't add flour to a meatloaf or a meat rissole. Otherwise, adding
flour, perhaps with eggs, to ingredients containing moisture or fat,
binds them together and changes texture of the resulting dish. How much
to add depends on how much actually works - and one's preferences. Add
too little and things may just fall apart; add too much and they get
gluey, or too hard or firm.

Victor

"Goomba38" > wrote in message
. ..
> Mike wrote:
>> Can anyone discuss 'binding' as in adding flour to a potato mixture or
>> a meatloaf?
>> What's actually happening? how do you know you've added enough flour
>> or matzo meal? - Mike
>
> I've never *heard* of a meatloaf recipe that included raw flour. It sounds
> like a seriously bad idea.
> I always assumed breadcrumbs, oats and other such additives worked by
> swelling and absorbing liquids (fat from meat, liquid from vegetable and
> other liquid additions) which is how they work to bind the loaf together.
> I may be wrong....?

I thought the egg was the binder. I know people who make low carb meatloaf
and don't add anything starchy things at all to it. I am allergic to eggs
so I use flax meal and water in my meatloaf.

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
3.184...

> Then by potato pancakes, you're referring to those made from mashed
> potatoes? We've always called those potato patties. To me, latkes and
> potatoe pancakes are the same animal, er, vegetable.
>
> FWIW, I like potato patties, too.

We always called the ones with the mashed potatoes, potato cakes.

Nancy2 wrote:
> On Dec 6, 1:09 pm, "Mitch Scherer" > wrote:
>> "Mike" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> Can anyone discuss 'binding' as in adding flour to a potato mixture
>>> or a meatloaf?
>>> What's actually happening? how do you know you've added enough flour
>>> or matzo meal? - Mike
>>
>> I don't think the bread crumbs bind meatloaf. They absorb the juice
>> and make the meatloaf more tender; it is the egg that binds it.
>> Without the crumbs, the meatloaf becomes a hard piece of ground
>> beef. With bread crumbs and no egg, it will be soft and falling
>> apart. Too much bread crumbs make it mushy.
>>
>> Unlike latkes, potato pancakes are awful heavy, pasty things I can't
>> stand to put in my mouth. I'm not sure what the matzo does for the
>> latkes. It might make them a bit lighter. Latkes also have egg,
>> which could be the binder.
>>
>> Mitch
>
>
> I love potato pancakes - but I never saw a recipe, I just mix left-
> over mashed potatoes with an egg (I never have more than a cup to 2
> cups of potatoes), diced onion, parsley, garlic, seasoned salt &
> pepper - drop into patties into hot oil and fry on one side, then the
> other, until brown. Yum. Nothing horribly heavy about them, nor
> pasty, either. I generally don't add any flour, or if I do, it's a T.
> or so. I don't mind that they are crispy on the outside and kinda
> soft in the inside. Perfect. ;-)
>
> N.

That's the way I make them. I don't ever add flour to the mix. If the
potatoes appear too moist to hold together well I lightly dust the patties
with flour. It's also important to make sure you're using *cold* leftover
mashed potatoes for these. I love the crispy outside and fluffy soft inside


Jill

Oh pshaw, on Fri 07 Dec 2007 07:53:59a, Janet Baraclough meant to say...

> The message <K_76j.9862$3W.4398@trndny04>
> from "Julie Bove" > contains these words:
>
>
>> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
>> 3.184...
>
>> > Then by potato pancakes, you're referring to those made from mashed
>> > potatoes? We've always called those potato patties. To me, latkes
and
>> > potatoe pancakes are the same animal, er, vegetable.
>> >
>> > FWIW, I like potato patties, too.
>
>> We always called the ones with the mashed potatoes, potato cakes.
>
> So do we; except when the mash is mixed with cooked cabbage then
> fried, called Bubble and Squeak. Just had that for lunch.
>
> Janet
>

Oh, I love that stuff! Learned it from an English friend of mine.

--
Wayne Boatwright

Date: Fri, 12(XII)/7(VII)/07(MMVII)

*******************************************
Countdown 'til Christmas
2wks 1dys 4hrs 45mins
*******************************************
Even Murphy's Law doesn't work all the
time.
*******************************************