'Every December schools and local governments are confronted with the
question of how to approach the holidays without favoring onereligious
faith over another or making some feel uncomfortable because their
religious background is different from others.

To help negotiate the "December Dilemma," the Anti-Defamation League
(ADL) provides public schools and government institutions nationwide
with materials and information on how to keep public recognition of
the December holidays respectful, welcoming and constitutionally
permissible.'

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/RelChStSep_90/5183_90.htm

"Jim34" > wrote in message
...
> 'Every December schools and local governments are confronted with the
> question of how to approach the holidays without favoring onereligious
> faith over another or making some feel uncomfortable because their
> religious background is different from others.
>
> To help negotiate the "December Dilemma," the Anti-Defamation League
> (ADL) provides public schools and government institutions nationwide
> with materials and information on how to keep public recognition of
> the December holidays respectful, welcoming and constitutionally
> permissible.'
>
> http://www.adl.org/PresRele/RelChStSep_90/5183_90.htm

What pressure are they guilty of? Asking that schools and local governments
be sensitive to everyone's religion or beliefs? Asking them not to
emphasize one over the other so as not to hurt anyones feeling? No where in
the article did I read anything that prohibits schools or local governments
from celebrating the holidays as long as it's done with sensitivity and
equality. Is that wrong?

In article >,
"Sanity" > wrote:

> "Jim34" > wrote in message
> ...
> > 'Every December schools and local governments are confronted with the
> > question of how to approach the holidays without favoring onereligious
> > faith over another or making some feel uncomfortable because their
> > religious background is different from others.
> >
> > To help negotiate the "December Dilemma," the Anti-Defamation League
> > (ADL) provides public schools and government institutions nationwide
> > with materials and information on how to keep public recognition of
> > the December holidays respectful, welcoming and constitutionally
> > permissible.'
> >
> > http://www.adl.org/PresRele/RelChStSep_90/5183_90.htm
>
> What pressure are they guilty of? Asking that schools and local governments
> be sensitive to everyone's religion or beliefs? Asking them not to
> emphasize one over the other so as not to hurt anyones feeling? No where in
> the article did I read anything that prohibits schools or local governments
> from celebrating the holidays as long as it's done with sensitivity and
> equality. Is that wrong?

Whether we are talking Kwanzaa, Hanukah, Christmas, Ramadan, or Yuletide
Season, I think that "Happy Holidays" is the most respectful common
denominator that we can use. The equinox seems to mean a re-focusing on
the eternally important things in our cultures.

"If I can be in our dream, you can be in mine." - Bob Zimmerman
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars

Billy wrote:
> In article >,
> "Sanity" > wrote:
>
>> "Jim34" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> 'Every December schools and local governments are confronted with the
>>> question of how to approach the holidays without favoring onereligious
>>> faith over another or making some feel uncomfortable because their
>>> religious background is different from others.
>>>
>>> To help negotiate the "December Dilemma," the Anti-Defamation League
>>> (ADL) provides public schools and government institutions nationwide
>>> with materials and information on how to keep public recognition of
>>> the December holidays respectful, welcoming and constitutionally
>>> permissible.'
>>>
>>> http://www.adl.org/PresRele/RelChStSep_90/5183_90.htm
>> What pressure are they guilty of? Asking that schools and local governments
>> be sensitive to everyone's religion or beliefs? Asking them not to
>> emphasize one over the other so as not to hurt anyones feeling? No where in
>> the article did I read anything that prohibits schools or local governments
>> from celebrating the holidays as long as it's done with sensitivity and
>> equality. Is that wrong?
>
> Whether we are talking Kwanzaa, Hanukah, Christmas, Ramadan, or Yuletide
> Season, I think that "Happy Holidays" is the most respectful common
> denominator that we can use. The equinox seems to mean a re-focusing on
> the eternally important things in our cultures.
>
> "If I can be in our dream, you can be in mine." - Bob Zimmerman

Um -- this is the winter solstice, not the equinox.

helco

Perhaps of more concern...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/wo...0A&oref=slogin


"helco" > wrote in message
m...
> Billy wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "Sanity" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jim34" > wrote in message
> >>
...
> >>> 'Every December schools and local governments are confronted with the
> >>> question of how to approach the holidays without favoring onereligious
> >>> faith over another or making some feel uncomfortable because their
> >>> religious background is different from others.
> >>>
> >>> To help negotiate the "December Dilemma," the Anti-Defamation League
> >>> (ADL) provides public schools and government institutions nationwide
> >>> with materials and information on how to keep public recognition of
> >>> the December holidays respectful, welcoming and constitutionally
> >>> permissible.'
> >>>
> >>> http://www.adl.org/PresRele/RelChStSep_90/5183_90.htm
> >> What pressure are they guilty of? Asking that schools and local
governments
> >> be sensitive to everyone's religion or beliefs? Asking them not to
> >> emphasize one over the other so as not to hurt anyones feeling? No
where in
> >> the article did I read anything that prohibits schools or local
governments
> >> from celebrating the holidays as long as it's done with sensitivity and
> >> equality. Is that wrong?
> >
> > Whether we are talking Kwanzaa, Hanukah, Christmas, Ramadan, or Yuletide
> > Season, I think that "Happy Holidays" is the most respectful common
> > denominator that we can use. The equinox seems to mean a re-focusing on
> > the eternally important things in our cultures.
> >
> > "If I can be in our dream, you can be in mine." - Bob Zimmerman
>
> Um -- this is the winter solstice, not the equinox.
>
> helco

In article > ,
helco > wrote:

> Billy wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "Sanity" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jim34" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> 'Every December schools and local governments are confronted with the
> >>> question of how to approach the holidays without favoring onereligious
> >>> faith over another or making some feel uncomfortable because their
> >>> religious background is different from others.
> >>>
> >>> To help negotiate the "December Dilemma," the Anti-Defamation League
> >>> (ADL) provides public schools and government institutions nationwide
> >>> with materials and information on how to keep public recognition of
> >>> the December holidays respectful, welcoming and constitutionally
> >>> permissible.'
> >>>
> >>> http://www.adl.org/PresRele/RelChStSep_90/5183_90.htm
> >> What pressure are they guilty of? Asking that schools and local
> >> governments
> >> be sensitive to everyone's religion or beliefs? Asking them not to
> >> emphasize one over the other so as not to hurt anyones feeling? No where
> >> in
> >> the article did I read anything that prohibits schools or local
> >> governments
> >> from celebrating the holidays as long as it's done with sensitivity and
> >> equality. Is that wrong?
> >
> > Whether we are talking Kwanzaa, Hanukah, Christmas, Ramadan, or Yuletide
> > Season, I think that "Happy Holidays" is the most respectful common
> > denominator that we can use. The equinox seems to mean a re-focusing on
> > the eternally important things in our cultures.
> >
> > "If I can be in our dream, you can be in mine." - Bob Zimmerman
>
> Um -- this is the winter solstice, not the equinox.
>
> helco

Please read what I mean and not what I say. Let the "solstice" begin.
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars

In article <6KK6j.29155$Ji6.11594@edtnps89>,
"Willow Arune" > wrote:

> Perhaps of more concern...
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/wo...ml?_r=1&em&ex=
> 1196917200&en=3c76117a54b5f349&ei=5087%0A&oref=slo gin
>
>
> "helco" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Billy wrote:
> > > In article >,
> > > "Sanity" > wrote:
> > >
> > >> "Jim34" > wrote in message
> > >>
> ...
> > >>> 'Every December schools and local governments are confronted with the
> > >>> question of how to approach the holidays without favoring onereligious
> > >>> faith over another or making some feel uncomfortable because their
> > >>> religious background is different from others.
> > >>>
> > >>> To help negotiate the "December Dilemma," the Anti-Defamation League
> > >>> (ADL) provides public schools and government institutions nationwide
> > >>> with materials and information on how to keep public recognition of
> > >>> the December holidays respectful, welcoming and constitutionally
> > >>> permissible.'
> > >>>
> > >>> http://www.adl.org/PresRele/RelChStSep_90/5183_90.htm
> > >> What pressure are they guilty of? Asking that schools and local
> governments
> > >> be sensitive to everyone's religion or beliefs? Asking them not to
> > >> emphasize one over the other so as not to hurt anyones feeling? No
> where in
> > >> the article did I read anything that prohibits schools or local
> governments
> > >> from celebrating the holidays as long as it's done with sensitivity and
> > >> equality. Is that wrong?
> > >
> > > Whether we are talking Kwanzaa, Hanukah, Christmas, Ramadan, or Yuletide
> > > Season, I think that "Happy Holidays" is the most respectful common
> > > denominator that we can use. The equinox seems to mean a re-focusing on
> > > the eternally important things in our cultures.
> > >
> > > "If I can be in our dream, you can be in mine." - Bob Zimmerman
> >
> > Um -- this is the winter solstice, not the equinox.
> >
> > helco

Screw Israel, its' bantustan solution to the Palestinians, and its'
expansionist policies. Iran hasn't broken any of it's treaties. The
United Sates on the other hand has offered nuclear technology to India,
who is not a signatory to the "Non-Nuclear Proliferation Pact".
Apparently Iran has been developing it's own nuclear industry, which it
has every right to do. Enrichment of uranium is an essential step in
this process. The United States has become a bully to every country that
doesn't have nuclear capability. You would have to be a fool not to
protect your self against the present American administration.
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 21:31:06 -0800, Billy >
wrote:


>> > > Whether we are talking Kwanzaa, Hanukah, Christmas, Ramadan, or Yuletide
>> > > Season, I think that "Happy Holidays" is the most respectful common
>> > > denominator that we can use. The equinox seems to mean a re-focusing on
>> > > the eternally important things in our cultures.

>> > Um -- this is the winter solstice, not the equinox.
>> >
>> > helco
>
>Screw Israel, its' bantustan solution to the Palestinians, and its'
>expansionist policies. Iran hasn't broken any of it's treaties. The
>United Sates on the other hand has offered nuclear technology to India,
>who is not a signatory to the "Non-Nuclear Proliferation Pact".
>Apparently Iran has been developing it's own nuclear industry, which it
>has every right to do. Enrichment of uranium is an essential step in
>this process. The United States has become a bully to every country that
>doesn't have nuclear capability. You would have to be a fool not to
>protect your self against the present American administration.

That's right Billy, just because people were talking religious, or non
religious holiday, don't let that interrupt your anti America/Isreal
rant.

Less than 1/3rd of the world's population is Christian.

Perhaps the other 2/3rds find the whole self-righteous attitude of those who
impose their own Xmas holidays on others as being narrow minded, stupid, or
both.

Smarty




"Jack Schmidling" > wrote in message
...
> BTW, my wife picked up a very nice "Winter Tree" ornament to hang on her
> "holiday tree" for Xmas. How comforting it is not to offend anyone.
>
> js
>

Pan Ohco wrote:

> That's right Billy, just because people were talking religious, or non
> religious holiday, don't let that interrupt your anti America/Isreal
> rant.

Truth hurts. How many Israeli or American spies are in jail for
stealing or allowing our atomic bomb secrets to be stolen by Israel?

Why aren't we content with statments like "thought to have bombs" or
"Israel chooses to be ambiguous about their weapons programs" from or
about Iran?

BTW, my wife picked up a very nice "Winter Tree" ornament to hang on her
"holiday tree" for Xmas. How comforting it is not to offend anyone.

js

Jack Schmidling wrote:

> Pan Ohco wrote:
>
> > That's right Billy, just because people were talking religious, or non
> > religious holiday, don't let that interrupt your anti America/Isreal
> > rant.
>
> Truth hurts. How many Israeli or American spies are in jail for
> stealing or allowing our atomic bomb secrets to be stolen by Israel?

You ought to check your facts before you spout off. Israel never got
any technology from the USA on how to build an atomic bomb. They
may have gotten some nuclear fuel, but that's another story. It's the
Russians that stole our atomic secrets, not Israel.

>
>
> Why aren't we content with statments like "thought to have bombs" or
> "Israel chooses to be ambiguous about their weapons programs" from or
> about Iran?

Israel doesn't threaten to destroy her neighbors as does Iran. Nor does
she give aid and comfort to terrorists fighting our troops in Iraq. Big
difference.

>
>
> BTW, my wife picked up a very nice "Winter Tree" ornament to hang on her
> "holiday tree" for Xmas. How comforting it is not to offend anyone.
>
> js

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:01:04 GMT, "Smarty" > wrote:

>Less than 1/3rd of the world's population is Christian.
>
>Perhaps the other 2/3rds find the whole self-righteous attitude of those who
>impose their own Xmas holidays on others as being narrow minded, stupid, or
>both.
>
>Smarty
>
No one is imposing Christmas on any one else. Christians are fighting
those who would stop them from celebrating Christian holidays.
Approx 95% of people in the U.S. celebrate Christmas and/or Chanukah

If you don't like it don't do it.

But if you were told you could not say "Happy Winter Solstice" would
you be outraged, even though very few people celebrate this event?
Of course if you were in an area of radical islamist, you might lose
your head.

Not Christian, I do not feel that anyone imposes Christmas on me at all.

I do get a bit peeved with television programming but I can turn it off and
read a book. As to Christmas lights, I enjoy them and marvel at the
consumer spirit behind them. Very few of the displays contain any religious
themes, most are Santa Claus and snowmen. That's fine. Even if they were
religious, I can simply ignore them or not, as I choose.

I do not feel imposed upon to see a mosque, hear religious music of any
faith, or driving my partner to her church for a service.

Let anyone celebrate their religion as they wish, as long as I am free to
simply observe or ignore. How can one not enjoy Mozart and his requiems?
Does one need to be a Christian to feel that spirit?

Nor did I feel imposed upon when I lived in a Buddhist country and observed
their festivals - some were very charming.

I think that as a rule, it is nice to respect such beliefs, even if one does
not follow them. It costs nothing and there is no duty imposed to honour
the faith espoused. It is as watching any other form of human activity.
Not much into sports watching, I can still enjoy some aspects of the
rituals.

The key, to me, is not that such calibration impose anything. I do not send
cards, decorate the house, give or receive gifts, but we shall indeed enjoy
a nice turkey on the day appointed - by Mithras if not someone else. And
yes, if a majority around me do have Christian feelings at Christmas, I
respect those as the beliefs, even if not shared, of my friends. As long as
they do not try to convert, cajole or force me into following their belief,
I even bow my head in respect of their beliefs if invited to join in a
feast.

As I might do if invited to join some conservative friends for a meal...

Willow




"Pan Ohco" > wrote in message
news
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:01:04 GMT, "Smarty" > wrote:
>
> >Less than 1/3rd of the world's population is Christian.
> >
> >Perhaps the other 2/3rds find the whole self-righteous attitude of those
who
> >impose their own Xmas holidays on others as being narrow minded, stupid,
or
> >both.
> >
> >Smarty
> >
> No one is imposing Christmas on any one else. Christians are fighting
> those who would stop them from celebrating Christian holidays.
> Approx 95% of people in the U.S. celebrate Christmas and/or Chanukah
>
> If you don't like it don't do it.
>
> But if you were told you could not say "Happy Winter Solstice" would
> you be outraged, even though very few people celebrate this event?
> Of course if you were in an area of radical islamist, you might lose
> your head.
>

Pan Ocho,

My intention in replying was not to stop references to Christmas among those
who celebrate it. Rather, my comment was in direct reply to the post
sarcastically complaining about a tree being referred to as a "holiday tree"
and a "winter tree" and "how comforting is not to offend anyone" by calling
it a Christmas tree. I found the sarcasm and "comforting" comment a
reflection of an attitude that ****EVERYBODY*** is celebrating Christmas as
they are. I merely pointed out that a very large fraction of the world, the
vast majority in fact, do not celebrate Christmas.

Smarty



"Pan Ohco" > wrote in message
news
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:01:04 GMT, "Smarty" > wrote:
>
>>Less than 1/3rd of the world's population is Christian.
>>
>>Perhaps the other 2/3rds find the whole self-righteous attitude of those
>>who
>>impose their own Xmas holidays on others as being narrow minded, stupid,
>>or
>>both.
>>
>>Smarty
>>
> No one is imposing Christmas on any one else. Christians are fighting
> those who would stop them from celebrating Christian holidays.
> Approx 95% of people in the U.S. celebrate Christmas and/or Chanukah
>
> If you don't like it don't do it.
>
> But if you were told you could not say "Happy Winter Solstice" would
> you be outraged, even though very few people celebrate this event?
> Of course if you were in an area of radical islamist, you might lose
> your head.
>

I personally enjoy and celebrate the holiday and the season, but find far
greater mutual respect and understanding when sharing in other traditions,
and not forcing my beliefs upon others. We fortunately live in a free
country in the U.S., and can practice our individual beliefs, but this does
not justify nor suggest that our government or other official / public
organizations should endorse, sponsor, promote, or selectively encourage any
specific belief system. The plain evidence of where a theocracy /
fundamentalist position can lead is evident both in the Taliban and the Bush
White House.

Smarty

Smarty


"Willow Arune" > wrote in message
news:tey7j.55012$Zn.49798@edtnps90...
> Not Christian, I do not feel that anyone imposes Christmas on me at all.
>
> I do get a bit peeved with television programming but I can turn it off
> and
> read a book. As to Christmas lights, I enjoy them and marvel at the
> consumer spirit behind them. Very few of the displays contain any
> religious
> themes, most are Santa Claus and snowmen. That's fine. Even if they were
> religious, I can simply ignore them or not, as I choose.
>
> I do not feel imposed upon to see a mosque, hear religious music of any
> faith, or driving my partner to her church for a service.
>
> Let anyone celebrate their religion as they wish, as long as I am free to
> simply observe or ignore. How can one not enjoy Mozart and his requiems?
> Does one need to be a Christian to feel that spirit?
>
> Nor did I feel imposed upon when I lived in a Buddhist country and
> observed
> their festivals - some were very charming.
>
> I think that as a rule, it is nice to respect such beliefs, even if one
> does
> not follow them. It costs nothing and there is no duty imposed to honour
> the faith espoused. It is as watching any other form of human activity.
> Not much into sports watching, I can still enjoy some aspects of the
> rituals.
>
> The key, to me, is not that such calibration impose anything. I do not
> send
> cards, decorate the house, give or receive gifts, but we shall indeed
> enjoy
> a nice turkey on the day appointed - by Mithras if not someone else. And
> yes, if a majority around me do have Christian feelings at Christmas, I
> respect those as the beliefs, even if not shared, of my friends. As long
> as
> they do not try to convert, cajole or force me into following their
> belief,
> I even bow my head in respect of their beliefs if invited to join in a
> feast.
>
> As I might do if invited to join some conservative friends for a meal...
>
> Willow
>
>
>
>
> "Pan Ohco" > wrote in message
> news
>> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:01:04 GMT, "Smarty" > wrote:
>>
>> >Less than 1/3rd of the world's population is Christian.
>> >
>> >Perhaps the other 2/3rds find the whole self-righteous attitude of those
> who
>> >impose their own Xmas holidays on others as being narrow minded, stupid,
> or
>> >both.
>> >
>> >Smarty
>> >
>> No one is imposing Christmas on any one else. Christians are fighting
>> those who would stop them from celebrating Christian holidays.
>> Approx 95% of people in the U.S. celebrate Christmas and/or Chanukah
>>
>> If you don't like it don't do it.
>>
>> But if you were told you could not say "Happy Winter Solstice" would
>> you be outraged, even though very few people celebrate this event?
>> Of course if you were in an area of radical islamist, you might lose
>> your head.
>>
>
>

"Jack Schmidling" > wrote in message
...
> sherwindu wrote:
>
>> You ought to check your facts before you spout off. Israel never
>> got
>> any technology from the USA on how to build an atomic bomb
>
> That is not even worth responding to. It is abject ignorance of reality.
>
>
>> Israel doesn't threaten to destroy her neighbors as does Iran.....
>
> It doesn't have to. It has the bombs. It will just do it when the
> opportunity arrives. Iran is impotent and has to rely on ranting.
>
>>Nor does
>> she give aid and comfort to terrorists fighting our troops in Iraq.
>
> Tell that to the 10,000 Palestinian political prisoners in Israel's
> Guantanamo.
>
> js

Is a person that gets caught firing a rocket into Israel called a 'political
prisoner'?

In article >,
sherwindu > wrote:

> Jack Schmidling wrote:
>
> > Pan Ohco wrote:
> >
> > > That's right Billy, just because people were talking religious, or non
> > > religious holiday, don't let that interrupt your anti America/Isreal
> > > rant.
> >
> > Truth hurts. How many Israeli or American spies are in jail for
> > stealing or allowing our atomic bomb secrets to be stolen by Israel?
>
> You ought to check your facts before you spout off. Israel never got
> any technology from the USA on how to build an atomic bomb. They
> may have gotten some nuclear fuel, but that's another story. It's the
> Russians that stole our atomic secrets, not Israel.
>
Sherwin, your ignorance can be breath taking. Everybody knew how to
build an atomic bomb in the 1940's. It's the purifying of the U235 that
was the hurdle, a very expensive hurdle. At the time it was a theory,
and there was no guarantee that it would work.

http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key.../issues/prolif
eration/chronology-fissile-material-theft.htm

1957-1965
Between 1957 and 1965, 100 kilograms of uranium 235 disappeared from a
nuclear scrap recycling plant in Apollo, Pennsylvania. The material was
weapons grade and suitable for making more than one bomb. The president
of the firm was reported to have close ties with Israel. The mystery was
never solved.

1968
The coaster, Scheersberg-A sets sail from Antwerp to Genoa with two
hundred tons of uranium. The boat does not arrive in Italy as scheduled
but in Iskenderun Turkey, empty of its cargo. Years later the owner of
the ship was located in a Norwegian prison and identified as an Isreali
secret agent.

And of course it is just a coincidence that Israel is our "junk-yard dog
in the middle east. You know. The place where our oil is.
> >
> >
> > Why aren't we content with statments like "thought to have bombs" or
> > "Israel chooses to be ambiguous about their weapons programs" from or
> > about Iran?
>
> Israel doesn't threaten to destroy her neighbors as does Iran. Nor does
> she give aid and comfort to terrorists fighting our troops in Iraq. Big
> difference.

But Israel has the bomb doesn't it? Everybody knows that. They even put
Mordechai Vanunu in jail for talking about what everybody knows. They
have the bomb but they don't want anyone else in the middle east to have
it. Israel attacked Iraq over a nuclear program. Israel just attacked
Syria. Israel kept attacking civilians in Lebanon when the rest of the
world, except Condi, wanted a cease fire. Kill civilians to make your
point. Israel is turning "occupied" Palestine into a vast prison that
makes South Africa's bantustans look good by comparison. Just ask Bishop
Desmond Tutu.

The problems in the middle east will not stop until Israel's ethnic
cleansing does.
>
> >
> >
> > BTW, my wife picked up a very nice "Winter Tree" ornament to hang on her
> > "holiday tree" for Xmas. How comforting it is not to offend anyone.
> >
> > js
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars

In article >,
"Sanity" > wrote:

> "Jack Schmidling" > wrote in message
> ...
> > sherwindu wrote:
> >
> >> You ought to check your facts before you spout off. Israel never
> >> got
> >> any technology from the USA on how to build an atomic bomb
> >
> > That is not even worth responding to. It is abject ignorance of reality.
> >
> >
> >> Israel doesn't threaten to destroy her neighbors as does Iran.....
> >
> > It doesn't have to. It has the bombs. It will just do it when the
> > opportunity arrives. Iran is impotent and has to rely on ranting.
> >
> >>Nor does
> >> she give aid and comfort to terrorists fighting our troops in Iraq.
> >
> > Tell that to the 10,000 Palestinian political prisoners in Israel's
> > Guantanamo.
> >
> > js
>
> Is a person that gets caught firing a rocket into Israel called a 'political
> prisoner'?

No. They are called a resistance fighters which is allowed under the
Geneva rules for war. Jailing children on the other hand is illegal, as
if the Israeli government cared.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMb1Ye3qpWE
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars

"Billy" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Sanity" > wrote:
>
>> "Jack Schmidling" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > sherwindu wrote:
>> >
>> >> You ought to check your facts before you spout off. Israel never
>> >> got
>> >> any technology from the USA on how to build an atomic bomb
>> >
>> > That is not even worth responding to. It is abject ignorance of
>> > reality.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Israel doesn't threaten to destroy her neighbors as does Iran.....
>> >
>> > It doesn't have to. It has the bombs. It will just do it when the
>> > opportunity arrives. Iran is impotent and has to rely on ranting.
>> >
>> >>Nor does
>> >> she give aid and comfort to terrorists fighting our troops in
>> >> Iraq.
>> >
>> > Tell that to the 10,000 Palestinian political prisoners in Israel's
>> > Guantanamo.
>> >
>> > js
>>
>> Is a person that gets caught firing a rocket into Israel called a
>> 'political
>> prisoner'?
>
> No. They are called a resistance fighters which is allowed under the
> Geneva rules for war. Jailing children on the other hand is illegal, as
> if the Israeli government cared.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMb1Ye3qpWE
> --
>
> Billy
>
> Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars
>
Resistance fighter? People that bomb innocent civilians are resistance
fighters? Then by your definition, the Israeli soldiers who kill
Palestinians are 'Resistance Fighers'.

sherwindu wrote:

> You ought to check your facts before you spout off. Israel never got
> any technology from the USA on how to build an atomic bomb

That is not even worth responding to. It is abject ignorance of reality.


> Israel doesn't threaten to destroy her neighbors as does Iran.....

It doesn't have to. It has the bombs. It will just do it when the
opportunity arrives. Iran is impotent and has to rely on ranting.

>Nor does
> she give aid and comfort to terrorists fighting our troops in Iraq.

Tell that to the 10,000 Palestinian political prisoners in Israel's
Guantanamo.

js

On Dec 11, 10:21 am, Pan Ohco > wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:01:04 GMT, "Smarty" > wrote:
> >Less than 1/3rd of the world's population is Christian.
>
> >Perhaps the other 2/3rds find the whole self-righteous attitude of those who
> >impose their own Xmas holidays on others as being narrow minded, stupid, or
> >both.
>
> >Smarty
>
> No one is imposing Christmas on any one else. Christians are fighting
> those who would stop them from celebrating Christian holidays.

You know, I don't see anyone forming barricades outside churches
to prevent people from attending on Christmas or Easter (arguably
a more important holiday than Christmas). I also can't find a
scriptural
mandate to decorate trees and call them "Christmas Trees" or to
wish people "Merry Christmas".

I just don't see anyone trying to stop Christians from celebrating.
At best, it's a tempest in a teapot, and at worst it is a self-
aggrandizing
play for attention from people who should know better. "But thou,
when thou
prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray
to thy Father
which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward
thee openly."

Cindy Hamilton

On Dec 10, 2:36 pm, Jack Schmidling > wrote:
> Pan Ohco wrote:
> > That's right Billy, just because people were talking religious, or non
> > religious holiday, don't let that interrupt your anti America/Isreal
> > rant.
>
> Truth hurts. How many Israeli or American spies are in jail for
> stealing or allowing our atomic bomb secrets to be stolen by Israel?

Yeah, every day I sit dreading the day Israel is going to nuke NYC.

On Dec 9, 12:31 am, Billy > wrote:

> Screw Israel, its' bantustan solution to the Palestinians, and its'
> expansionist policies. Iran hasn't broken any of it's treaties.

Well, I don't speak for Israel (nor vice versa), but off the top of my
head, screw you too, your simplistic black/white approach to complex
real world problems, and your delusions of moral superiority. Other
than that, however, I do sincerely hope you have a nice holiday, which
I'm gathering probably will be Christmas in your case.

On Dec 11, 10:21 am, Pan Ohco > wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:01:04 GMT, "Smarty" > wrote:
> >Less than 1/3rd of the world's population is Christian.
>
> >Perhaps the other 2/3rds find the whole self-righteous attitude of those who
> >impose their own Xmas holidays on others as being narrow minded, stupid, or
> >both.
>
> >Smarty
>
> No one is imposing Christmas on any one else. Christians are fighting
> those who would stop them from celebrating Christian holidays.
> Approx 95% of people in the U.S. celebrate Christmas and/or Chanukah
>
> If you don't like it don't do it.
>
> But if you were told you could not say "Happy Winter Solstice" would
> you be outraged, even though very few people celebrate this event?
> Of course if you were in an area of radical islamist, you might lose
> your head.

Well, I don't necessarily feel most people are "imposing Christmas" on
me, they're just exuberant about their holiday and they want to share,
and honestly, if I can't share in their joy that would be my problem.
However, when somebody does reply with "not me thanks", and instead of
shrugging, saying excuse me (whether they mean it or not) and moving
on, the celebrants insist "No, dammit, if you don't enjoy Christmas as
well you are ruining it for everyone! You're stealing Christmas!
Everyone is going to celebrate Christmas, this is a Christian
country!", then yeah, I feel at that point it is kind of being
imposed. Maybe a little.

On Dec 11, 2:19 pm, Billy > wrote:
> In article >,
>
>
>
>
>
> "Sanity" > wrote:
> > "Jack Schmidling" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > sherwindu wrote:
>
> > >> You ought to check your facts before you spout off. Israel never
> > >> got
> > >> any technology from the USA on how to build an atomic bomb
>
> > > That is not even worth responding to. It is abject ignorance of reality.
>
> > >> Israel doesn't threaten to destroy her neighbors as does Iran.....
>
> > > It doesn't have to. It has the bombs. It will just do it when the
> > > opportunity arrives. Iran is impotent and has to rely on ranting.
>
> > >>Nor does
> > >> she give aid and comfort to terrorists fighting our troops in Iraq.
>
> > > Tell that to the 10,000 Palestinian political prisoners in Israel's
> > > Guantanamo.
>
> > > js
>
> > Is a person that gets caught firing a rocket into Israel called a 'political
> > prisoner'?
>
> No. They are called a resistance fighters which is allowed under the
> Geneva rules for war.

So then the "political prisoners" are prisoners of war. No?

> Jailing children on the other hand is illegal, as
> if the Israeli government cared.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMb1Ye3qpWE

Just wondering... why did you decide this would be your crusade? Do
you live in the US? We actually execute minors here from time to time,
not just imprison them. And of course, the judicial practices of the
various Middle Eastern countries excluding Israel are, in general, not
particularly nice.

And if you want to keep discussing senseless slaughter of civilians,
honestly I don't think Israel is anywhere near the top of the list of
countries; ironically, most of them would be the other Islamic and/or
Arabic countries. I have no doubt that any kid in Darfur would swap
places with a Palestinian kid in a second, and that no Palestinian kid
would reciprocate.

So why have you decided that, rather than spend ten minutes trying to
get the country in which you live to stop executing minors; or failing
that, to see if you could pressure another country to stop
slaughtering women and children in staggering numbers for no reason;
that you would best use the time and effort to see if you could get
Israel to stop jailing however many children they do and presumably
turn the other cheek when attacked, since you seem to be so persuasive
regarding convincing people that they deserve it? I mean, don't ge me
wrong, I'd be more than happy if there were no children in Israelis
prisons, but 1) there are powerul reasons the kids are being put in
prison other than just that the Israelis are acting badly and need a
good talking to "you just stop putting random kids in prison right
now!!" "Ok, I'm sorry", and 2) in terms of reducing human suffering, I
think my time, effort, and outrage are much more productive in other
directions. Heck, even in terms of ending Palestinian suffering, I
don't think encouraging them to keep dropping rockets on Israeli towns
because they are "freedom fighters" is really doing them a good turn.

What must be done to solve the problem:

1) There are Christian groups (Jehovah's Witnesses, for example), who
do not celebrate Christmas. Allowing them to get away with this is
against all the traditions of free Americans. They must be rounded up
and sent to reeducation camps.

2) Wiccans and others who claim that Christmas is derived from a pagan
winter holiday must be kept from spreading that lie. Until the birth
of Christ, there was no winter.

3) Obviously, tainted Zionist genes come from Noah and his descendants.
Therefore, no descendant of Noah should be allowed to be a US citizen.

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers.".
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal http://dsgood.livejournal.com
Futures http://dangoodman.livejournal.com
mirror: http://dsgood.insanejournal.com
Links http://del.icio.us/dsgood

Smarty wrote:

> Rather, my comment was in direct reply to the post
> sarcastically complaining about a tree being referred to as a "holiday tree"
> and a "winter tree" and "how comforting is not to offend anyone" by calling
> it a Christmas tree. I found the sarcasm and "comforting" comment a
> reflection of an attitude that ****EVERYBODY*** is celebrating Christmas as
> they are.

The sarcasm was intended. Why does one have to avoid offending others
by pretending that her Christmas tree is a holiday tree.

The bloody box the ornament came in called it a winter tree. How
comforting is that to the believer who has had her Christmas stolen from
her.

And ask her how comforting it is to hear nothing but inane "holiday
music" on the radio instead of the beautiful Christmas carols she grew
up listening to.

I happen to be an Atheist but I am not blind to the fact that "special
interest groups" have stolen Christmas.

Less than 2% of this country celebrate Chanuka but listening to the
media and looking around, one would think it was the majority view.

js

Sanity wrote:

> Is a person that gets caught firing a rocket into Israel called a 'political
> prisoner'?

No. They are not prisoners at all. They are summarily executed on the
spot.


The prisoners have never been charged with crimes, ever see a lawyer or
their families.

Kinda like GTMO.

js

Billy wrote:

> In article >,
> sherwindu > wrote:
>
> > Jack Schmidling wrote:
> >
> > > Pan Ohco wrote:
> > >
> > > > That's right Billy, just because people were talking religious, or non
> > > > religious holiday, don't let that interrupt your anti America/Isreal
> > > > rant.
> > >
> > > Truth hurts. How many Israeli or American spies are in jail for
> > > stealing or allowing our atomic bomb secrets to be stolen by Israel?
> >
> > You ought to check your facts before you spout off. Israel never got
> > any technology from the USA on how to build an atomic bomb. They
> > may have gotten some nuclear fuel, but that's another story. It's the
> > Russians that stole our atomic secrets, not Israel.
> >
> Sherwin, your ignorance can be breath taking. Everybody knew how to
> build an atomic bomb in the 1940's. It's the purifying of the U235 that
> was the hurdle, a very expensive hurdle. At the time it was a theory,
> and there was no guarantee that it would work.
>
> http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key.../issues/prolif
> eration/chronology-fissile-material-theft.htm
>
> 1957-1965
> Between 1957 and 1965, 100 kilograms of uranium 235 disappeared from a
> nuclear scrap recycling plant in Apollo, Pennsylvania. The material was
> weapons grade and suitable for making more than one bomb. The president
> of the firm was reported to have close ties with Israel. The mystery was
> never solved.
>
> 1968
> The coaster, Scheersberg-A sets sail from Antwerp to Genoa with two
> hundred tons of uranium. The boat does not arrive in Italy as scheduled
> but in Iskenderun Turkey, empty of its cargo. Years later the owner of
> the ship was located in a Norwegian prison and identified as an Isreali
> secret agent.
>
> And of course it is just a coincidence that Israel is our "junk-yard dog
> in the middle east. You know. The place where our oil is.
> > >
> > >
> > > Why aren't we content with statments like "thought to have bombs" or
> > > "Israel chooses to be ambiguous about their weapons programs" from or
> > > about Iran?
> >
> > Israel doesn't threaten to destroy her neighbors as does Iran. Nor does
> > she give aid and comfort to terrorists fighting our troops in Iraq. Big
> > difference.
>
> But Israel has the bomb doesn't it? Everybody knows that. They even put
> Mordechai Vanunu in jail for talking about what everybody knows. They
> have the bomb but they don't want anyone else in the middle east to have
> it. Israel attacked Iraq over a nuclear program. Israel just attacked
> Syria. Israel kept attacking civilians in Lebanon when the rest of the
> world, except Condi, wanted a cease fire. Kill civilians to make your
> point. Israel is turning "occupied" Palestine into a vast prison that
> makes South Africa's bantustans look good by comparison. Just ask Bishop
> Desmond Tutu.
>
> The problems in the middle east will not stop until Israel's ethnic
> cleansing does.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > BTW, my wife picked up a very nice "Winter Tree" ornament to hang on her
> > > "holiday tree" for Xmas. How comforting it is not to offend anyone.
> > >
> > > js
> --
>
> Billy
>
> Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars

And the problems in the USA won't stop until we refrain from discriminating
against African Americans, Hispanics, etc., etc., etc.

Billy wrote:

> In article >,
> "Sanity" > wrote:
>
> > "Jack Schmidling" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > sherwindu wrote:
> > >
> > >> You ought to check your facts before you spout off. Israel never
> > >> got
> > >> any technology from the USA on how to build an atomic bomb
> > >
> > > That is not even worth responding to. It is abject ignorance of reality.
> > >
> > >
> > >> Israel doesn't threaten to destroy her neighbors as does Iran.....
> > >
> > > It doesn't have to. It has the bombs. It will just do it when the
> > > opportunity arrives. Iran is impotent and has to rely on ranting.
> > >
> > >>Nor does
> > >> she give aid and comfort to terrorists fighting our troops in Iraq.
> > >
> > > Tell that to the 10,000 Palestinian political prisoners in Israel's
> > > Guantanamo.
> > >
> > > js
> >
> > Is a person that gets caught firing a rocket into Israel called a 'political
> > prisoner'?
>
> No. They are called a resistance fighters which is allowed under the
> Geneva rules for war. Jailing children on the other hand is illegal, as
> if the Israeli government cared.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMb1Ye3qpWE
> --
>
> Billy
>
> Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars

German children fought our GI's at the end of WWII, but that didn't stop our
troops
from shooting back to defend themselves.

Anyone who fires rockets indiscriminately against civilians doesn't deserve the
moniker
of resistance fighters.

Jack Schmidling wrote:

> sherwindu wrote:
>
> > You ought to check your facts before you spout off. Israel never got
> > any technology from the USA on how to build an atomic bomb
>
> That is not even worth responding to. It is abject ignorance of reality.
>
> > Israel doesn't threaten to destroy her neighbors as does Iran.....
>
> It doesn't have to. It has the bombs. It will just do it when the
> opportunity arrives. Iran is impotent and has to rely on ranting.
>
> >Nor does
> > she give aid and comfort to terrorists fighting our troops in Iraq.
>
> Tell that to the 10,000 Palestinian political prisoners in Israel's
> Guantanamo.
>
> js

They are not political prisoners. The are TERRORISTS!

Jim34 wrote:
> 'Every December schools and local governments are confronted with the
> question of how to approach the holidays without favoring onereligious
> faith over another or making some feel uncomfortable because their
> religious background is different from others.
>
> To help negotiate the "December Dilemma," the Anti-Defamation League
> (ADL) provides public schools and government institutions nationwide
> with materials and information on how to keep public recognition of
> the December holidays respectful, welcoming and constitutionally
> permissible.'
>
> http://www.adl.org/PresRele/RelChStSep_90/5183_90.htm

Strange, seems like celebrating CHRISTMAS has been "constitutionally
permissible" for over 200 years.
Oh, never mind...I'll do my part to avoid offending Jewish merchants.
I'll try not to buy any CHRISTMAS gifts from them.

Jon v Leipzig wrote:
> Jim34 wrote:

>> To help negotiate the "December Dilemma," the Anti-Defamation League
>> (ADL) provides public schools and government institutions nationwide
>> with materials and information on how to keep public recognition of
>> the December holidays respectful, welcoming and constitutionally
>> permissible.'

I am sure it is just an amazing coincidence but there was no "dilemma"
before the ADL turned up and "educated" us about it.

js

In article >, Jon v Leipzig >
wrote:

> Jim34 wrote:
> > 'Every December schools and local governments are confronted with the
> > question of how to approach the holidays without favoring onereligious
> > faith over another or making some feel uncomfortable because their
> > religious background is different from others.
> >
> > To help negotiate the "December Dilemma," the Anti-Defamation League
> > (ADL) provides public schools and government institutions nationwide
> > with materials and information on how to keep public recognition of
> > the December holidays respectful, welcoming and constitutionally
> > permissible.'
> >
> > http://www.adl.org/PresRele/RelChStSep_90/5183_90.htm
>
> Strange, seems like celebrating CHRISTMAS has been "constitutionally
> permissible" for over 200 years.
> Oh, never mind...I'll do my part to avoid offending Jewish merchants.
> I'll try not to buy any CHRISTMAS gifts from them.

Yes it's all Billy, all the time.

Holiday Season hint. To avoid buying from a Jewish merchant (or other
non-believer) buy nothing but Chinese imports.
Happy Holidays
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars

Jon v Leipzig wrote:
> Jim34 wrote:
>> 'Every December schools and local governments are confronted with the
>> question of how to approach the holidays without favoring
>> onereligious faith over another or making some feel uncomfortable
>> because their religious background is different from others.
>>
>> To help negotiate the "December Dilemma," the Anti-Defamation League
>> (ADL) provides public schools and government institutions nationwide
>> with materials and information on how to keep public recognition of
>> the December holidays respectful, welcoming and constitutionally
>> permissible.'
>>
>> http://www.adl.org/PresRele/RelChStSep_90/5183_90.htm
>
> Strange, seems like celebrating CHRISTMAS has been "constitutionally
> permissible" for over 200 years.

You are correct, but all that's changed recently. There are no more
"Christmas" holidays, it's now "Winter" holidays. Religious themed carols
cannot be sung in assembly, trees are, for the most part, out, and so on.
Some of this was done by over-exuberant administrators. It was this
irrational suppression that the ADL was trying to address.


> Oh, never mind...I'll do my part to avoid offending Jewish merchants.
> I'll try not to buy any CHRISTMAS gifts from them.

Unlike some other religions, its okay with Jews for somebody else to be a
Christian. The official Jewish position is that Christianity is a good and
holy road to God.

Last week I helped my Christian neighbor put up his outside decorations.

And wished him a "Merry Christmas."

You certainly seem to be a persecuted type of person with a very distorted
notion of 'stolen Christmas and Zionist / Chanuka "majority view".


"Jack Schmidling" > wrote in message
...
> Smarty wrote:
>
>> Rather, my comment was in direct reply to the post sarcastically
>> complaining about a tree being referred to as a "holiday tree" and a
>> "winter tree" and "how comforting is not to offend anyone" by calling it
>> a Christmas tree. I found the sarcasm and "comforting" comment a
>> reflection of an attitude that ****EVERYBODY*** is celebrating Christmas
>> as they are.
>
> The sarcasm was intended. Why does one have to avoid offending others by
> pretending that her Christmas tree is a holiday tree.
>
> The bloody box the ornament came in called it a winter tree. How
> comforting is that to the believer who has had her Christmas stolen from
> her.
>
> And ask her how comforting it is to hear nothing but inane "holiday music"
> on the radio instead of the beautiful Christmas carols she grew up
> listening to.
>
> I happen to be an Atheist but I am not blind to the fact that "special
> interest groups" have stolen Christmas.
>
> Less than 2% of this country celebrate Chanuka but listening to the media
> and looking around, one would think it was the majority view.
>
> js

Leipzig..... You are clearly a bigoted man.




"Jon v Leipzig" > wrote in message
...
> Jim34 wrote:
>> 'Every December schools and local governments are confronted with the
>> question of how to approach the holidays without favoring onereligious
>> faith over another or making some feel uncomfortable because their
>> religious background is different from others.
>>
>> To help negotiate the "December Dilemma," the Anti-Defamation League
>> (ADL) provides public schools and government institutions nationwide
>> with materials and information on how to keep public recognition of
>> the December holidays respectful, welcoming and constitutionally
>> permissible.'
>>
>> http://www.adl.org/PresRele/RelChStSep_90/5183_90.htm
>
> Strange, seems like celebrating CHRISTMAS has been "constitutionally
> permissible" for over 200 years.
> Oh, never mind...I'll do my part to avoid offending Jewish merchants. I'll
> try not to buy any CHRISTMAS gifts from them.
>