my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)

apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
destroys some of the viatmin k.

anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
helps.

(some years ago, i had a girlfriend who was allergic to onions, but i
don't know that i acquired any cooking knowledge, other than i didn't
make chili, and one side of the cutting board was non-onion. i did
finally come up with a meat loaf.)

your pal,
blake

blake wrote on Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:03:07 GMT:

bm> apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because
bm> cooking destroys some of the viatmin k.

bm> anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you
bm> all, since there seems to be much group experience in food
bm> allergies and medicine interactions, to see what you all
bm> thought, and ideas for substitutions, etc. so, any
bm> insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek medical advice on
bm> the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that helps.

bm> (some years ago, i had a girlfriend who was allergic to
bm> onions, but i don't know that i acquired any cooking
bm> knowledge, other than i didn't make chili, and one side of
bm> the cutting board was non-onion. i did finally come up
bm> with a meat loaf.)

I have been taking the damned rat poison for about a year and
have achieved the desired level of stability. I have only been
warned to limit my intake (not give up) of green vegetables.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

blake murphy wrote:
> my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
> generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
> know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
> restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
> vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
> him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
> themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)
>
> apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
> destroys some of the viatmin k.
>
> anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
> there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
> interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
> substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
> medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
> helps.

Hmmm.. believe it not I've never heard of the "No Onions" warning. I
used to council patients all the time about the Vit K aspect. In fact,
Vit K isn't as much a problem as long as the intake is *consistent*
rather than 3 pounds of greens eaten one day and none the next and so
on... A stable intake is tolerable as the monitoring labs will remain
stable and the dose not altered based on faulty lab results.
I'll have to look into this "no onions" idea.....

blake murphy wrote:
>
> my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
> generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
> know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
> restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
> vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
> him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
> themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)
>
> apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
> destroys some of the viatmin k.

This article specifically mentions fried and boiled
onions are to be avoided:

http://www.dietitian.com/vitamink.html

This article has a table which lists white and yellow
onions as low in K, but green onions as high in K.

http://www.drgourmet.com/warfarin/vegetables.shtml

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
news
> my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
> generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
> know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
> restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
> vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
> him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
> themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)
>
> apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
> destroys some of the viatmin k.


Only from my own experience with dear f-i-l:

Onions are listed under foods that are low in vitamin K.
http://www.heartpoint.com/coumadin.html

My f-i-l has been taking coumadin for 15 years now. He has his blood tested
constantly. Everytime he sees a dentist even, he has his blood tested. He
has never been warned about eating onions. He has loads of doctors (top
notch mostly) and has been under dietary care for years now.

BTW, he loves onions.
Dee Dee


> your pal,
> blake

My neighbor (another good cook) has been on Coumadin for years and
I've never heard her talk about limiting onions.... so I'll ask her
about it when she returns from vacation.

sf
```````````````

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:03:07 GMT, blake murphy >
wrote:

>my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
>generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
>know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
>restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
>vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
>him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
>themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)
>
>apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
>destroys some of the viatmin k.
>
>anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
>there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
>interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
>substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
>medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
>helps.


--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first

blake murphy wrote:
>
> my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
> generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
> know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
> restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
> vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
> him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
> themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)
>
> apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
> destroys some of the viatmin k.
>
> anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
> there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
> interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
> substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
> medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
> helps.
>
> (some years ago, i had a girlfriend who was allergic to onions, but i
> don't know that i acquired any cooking knowledge, other than i didn't
> make chili, and one side of the cutting board was non-onion. i did
> finally come up with a meat loaf.)
>
> your pal,
> blake

Here is some information from a reliable source:

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/guides/coumad.htm

Coumadin/warfarin is meant to prevent clotting:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...r/a682277.html

Vitamin K is needed for blood to clot:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002407.htm

A balance must be kept between the two; your father will need to be
tested frequently to see how things are doing. Most major hospitals have
a coumadin/warfarin clinic for that purpose.

The key is not to OD on the 'forbidden' foods and eat them, if desired,
in a regular manner, rather than bingeing one day and nothing the next.

HTH

blake murphy wrote:
> my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
> generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
> know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
> restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
> vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
> him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
> themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)
>
> apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
> destroys some of the viatmin k.
>
> anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
> there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
> interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
> substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
> medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
> helps.
>
> (some years ago, i had a girlfriend who was allergic to onions, but i
> don't know that i acquired any cooking knowledge, other than i didn't
> make chili, and one side of the cutting board was non-onion. i did
> finally come up with a meat loaf.)

You concern is appreciated, Blake. There is no need to avoid or restrict
any particular foods while taking Coumadin. Any of those foods can and
should be eaten. A steady diet of those foods is encouraged because of
their overall nutritive value. Bingeing on foods higher in Vitamin K
while taking Coumadin can temporarily impede its anticlotting
properties, but the effects of a steady dietary intake on Coumadin's
effect can easily be compensated for. The doctor will watch your
father's lab values (PT/INR) and adjust the Coumadin dosage as needed
according to lab results. Frequent dose adjustments for Coumadin are
common, even when someone has been on the medication for a long time.
Your father can help to keep his lab results stable by maintaining a
steady diet rather than an avoidance diet.

blake murphy wrote:
> my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
> generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
> know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
> restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
> vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
> him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
> themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)
>
> apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
> destroys some of the viatmin k.
>
> anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
> there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
> interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
> substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
> medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
> helps.
>
> (some years ago, i had a girlfriend who was allergic to onions, but i
> don't know that i acquired any cooking knowledge, other than i didn't
> make chili, and one side of the cutting board was non-onion. i did
> finally come up with a meat loaf.)

Here's the USDA web site I use for all nutritional data. It will also
give vitamin K data. http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

My DG is taking Warfarin, the genetic for Coumadin. Onions are not a
problem.

I am sure that Dad gets a blood test at least once per month to see how
his clotting factor is doing. According to DH's docs, one should not
increase the amount of vitamin K containing foods in their diet, but
decreasing them is not necessary. The doctor will read the blood test
and adjust the medicine accordingly.

Let him eat onions in the same quantities he was used to and let the doc
adjust the meds.



--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:56:48 -0500, Goomba38 >
wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>> my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
>> generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
>> know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
>> restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
>> vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
>> him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
>> themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)
>>
>> apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
>> destroys some of the viatmin k.
>>
>> anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
>> there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
>> interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
>> substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
>> medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
>> helps.
>
>Hmmm.. believe it not I've never heard of the "No Onions" warning. I
>used to council patients all the time about the Vit K aspect. In fact,
>Vit K isn't as much a problem as long as the intake is *consistent*
>rather than 3 pounds of greens eaten one day and none the next and so
>on... A stable intake is tolerable as the monitoring labs will remain
>stable and the dose not altered based on faulty lab results.
>I'll have to look into this "no onions" idea.....

o.k., i hadn't thought of the 'stable intake' idea, but it makes
sense.

thanks.

your pal,
blake

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:30:48 -0700, Arri London >
wrote:

>
>
>blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
>> generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
>> know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
>> restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
>> vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
>> him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
>> themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)
>>
>> apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
>> destroys some of the viatmin k.
>>
>> anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
>> there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
>> interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
>> substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
>> medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
>> helps.
>>
>> (some years ago, i had a girlfriend who was allergic to onions, but i
>> don't know that i acquired any cooking knowledge, other than i didn't
>> make chili, and one side of the cutting board was non-onion. i did
>> finally come up with a meat loaf.)
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>Here is some information from a reliable source:
>
>http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/guides/coumad.htm
>
>Coumadin/warfarin is meant to prevent clotting:
>
> http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...r/a682277.html
>
>Vitamin K is needed for blood to clot:
>
>http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002407.htm
>
>A balance must be kept between the two; your father will need to be
>tested frequently to see how things are doing. Most major hospitals have
>a coumadin/warfarin clinic for that purpose.
>
>The key is not to OD on the 'forbidden' foods and eat them, if desired,
>in a regular manner, rather than bingeing one day and nothing the next.
>
>HTH

i've bookmarked the first site, thanks.

he's in pretty regular contact with his doctors, so monitoring
shouldn't be a problem. the doc also told him no beer at lunch, so i
will pass that along also.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:03:07 GMT, blake murphy >
wrote:
>
>anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
>there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
>interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
>substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
>medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
>helps.
>

my thanks to all who responded.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:21:15 -0800, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
>> generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
>> know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
>> restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
>> vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
>> him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
>> themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)
>>
>> apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
>> destroys some of the viatmin k.
>
>This article specifically mentions fried and boiled
>onions are to be avoided:
>
>http://www.dietitian.com/vitamink.html
>
>This article has a table which lists white and yellow
>onions as low in K, but green onions as high in K.
>
>http://www.drgourmet.com/warfarin/vegetables.shtml

it's possible dad mistook 'green onions' for onions, but i don't think
so. but he does like them, too.

thanks.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy wrote:

>> Hmmm.. believe it not I've never heard of the "No Onions" warning. I
>> used to council patients all the time about the Vit K aspect. In fact,
>> Vit K isn't as much a problem as long as the intake is *consistent*
>> rather than 3 pounds of greens eaten one day and none the next and so
>> on... A stable intake is tolerable as the monitoring labs will remain
>> stable and the dose not altered based on faulty lab results.
>> I'll have to look into this "no onions" idea.....
>
> o.k., i hadn't thought of the 'stable intake' idea, but it makes
> sense.
>
> thanks.
>
> your pal,
> blake

<confused> I thought I wrote to you about just that idea hours after you
first posted your question?? I wonder what happened to my post...?

The case of the missing replies... ?

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:56:48 -0500, Goomba38 >
> wrote:
>
>>blake murphy wrote:
>>> my father was recently put on coumadin, for which i understand the
>>> generic is warfarin, a blood thinner or anti-coagulant (and yes, i
>>> know, a major ingredient in some rat poisons). there were some food
>>> restrictions (leafy green vegetables, etc.), due to large amounts of
>>> vitamin k, which apparently reduces the effect. those didn't bother
>>> him, but 'no onions' is chafing his knickers. (paradoxically, onions
>>> themselves seem to have an anticoagulant effect.)
>>>
>>> apparently, cooked onions are less bad, i presume because cooking
>>> destroys some of the viatmin k.
>>>
>>> anyhow, i told him i would put the question here to you all, since
>>> there seems to be much group experience in food allergies and medicine
>>> interactions, to see what you all thought, and ideas for
>>> substitutions, etc. so, any insights, wisdom, or warnings not to seek
>>> medical advice on the 'net? my dad's a pretty good cook, if that
>>> helps.
>>
>>Hmmm.. believe it not I've never heard of the "No Onions" warning. I
>>used to council patients all the time about the Vit K aspect. In fact,
>>Vit K isn't as much a problem as long as the intake is *consistent*
>>rather than 3 pounds of greens eaten one day and none the next and so
>>on... A stable intake is tolerable as the monitoring labs will remain
>>stable and the dose not altered based on faulty lab results.
>>I'll have to look into this "no onions" idea.....
>
> o.k., i hadn't thought of the 'stable intake' idea, but it makes
> sense.
>
> thanks.
>
> your pal,
> blake
>
I'd sure agree about the stable intake. Then with your prothrombin times you
can find the best dose
of coumadin to match your "green" intake.
I can't find anything to suggest that onions are particularly high in
vitamin K.

Kent

BTW, coumadin, as you but not many others know, is the generic name for the
drug.
Warfarin is the old brand name. Warfarin stans for "Wisconsin Alumni
Research Foundation", which held
original copyright for the drug, where largely, it was developed. I'm an old
UW alumnus.

"Kent" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> BTW, coumadin, as you but not many others know, is the generic
> name for the drug.
> Warfarin is the old brand name. Warfarin stans for "Wisconsin
> Alumni Research Foundation", which held
> original copyright for the drug, where largely, it was
> developed. I'm an old UW alumnus.
>

Will someone please explain to me why the perfectly satisfactory
generic name warfarin should be changed to coumadin? I know
that, for some reason, I have my blood cotting time measured at
a "Coumadin Clinic".



--
Jim Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

James Silverton wrote:
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> >
> > BTW, coumadin, as you but not many others know, is the generic
> > name for the drug.
> > Warfarin is the old brand name. Warfarin stans for "Wisconsin
> > Alumni Research Foundation", which held
> > original copyright for the drug, where largely, it was
> > developed. I'm an old UW alumnus.
> >
>
> Will someone please explain to me why the perfectly satisfactory
> generic name warfarin should be changed to coumadin? I know
> that, for some reason, I have my blood cotting time measured at
> a "Coumadin Clinic".

Do you really want to take a drug that sounds like 'warfare' regardless
of the origin of the name LOL? Coumadin is the trademarked name of
Dupont's brand of warfarin. Our local university hospital also has a
'coumadin' clinic.
>
> --
> Jim Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> James Silverton wrote:
>>
>> "Kent" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >
>> >
>> > BTW, coumadin, as you but not many others know, is the generic
>> > name for the drug.
>> > Warfarin is the old brand name. Warfarin stans for "Wisconsin
>> > Alumni Research Foundation", which held
>> > original copyright for the drug, where largely, it was
>> > developed. I'm an old UW alumnus.
>> >
>>
>> Will someone please explain to me why the perfectly satisfactory
>> generic name warfarin should be changed to coumadin? I know
>> that, for some reason, I have my blood cotting time measured at
>> a "Coumadin Clinic".
>
> Do you really want to take a drug that sounds like 'warfare' regardless
> of the origin of the name LOL? Coumadin is the trademarked name of
> Dupont's brand of warfarin. Our local university hospital also has a
> 'coumadin' clinic.
>>
>> --
>> Jim Silverton
>> Potomac, Maryland
>
>
Coumadin is the generic name applied to the drug Warfarin. WARF had the
original patent for coumadin and gave it the brand name of Warfarin.
ACETYLSALICYLIC ACID is the generic name for the brand name ASPIRIN,
originally owned by Bayer Co. Anybody can use the term ASA, or
ACETYLSALICYLIC ACID. Nowadays we all use the term[s] aspirin or ASA
interchangeably.

Also we now use the terms Warfarin and Coumadin interchangeably. Warfarin
was the original brand name for coumadin. Both terms as used today to
characterize the same drug, even on prescriptions written by your local
doctor.

Kent

Arri wrote on Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:55:07 -0700:


AL> James Silverton wrote:
??>>
??>> "Kent" > wrote in message
??>> . ..
??>>>
??>>> BTW, coumadin, as you but not many others know, is the
??>>> generic name for the drug. Warfarin is the old brand
??>>> name. Warfarin stans for "Wisconsin Alumni Research
??>>> Foundation", which held original copyright for the drug,
??>>> where largely, it was developed. I'm an old UW alumnus.
??>>>
??>> Will someone please explain to me why the perfectly
??>> satisfactory generic name warfarin should be changed to
??>> coumadin? I know that, for some reason, I have my blood
??>> cotting time measured at a "Coumadin Clinic".

AL> Do you really want to take a drug that sounds like
AL> 'warfare' regardless of the origin of the name LOL?
AL> Coumadin is the trademarked name of Dupont's brand of
AL> warfarin. Our local university hospital also has a
AL> 'coumadin' clinic.

I was fully aware of the identical nature of warfarin and
coumadin and I guess the reason for the later name probably is
psychological as you say. "Warfarin" does not bother me at all
even if I that I knew it was used as a rat poison long before it
was prescribed for me. Actually, "warfarin" is what it says on
the bottle when I refill.


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Kent wrote:
> Coumadin is the generic name applied to the drug Warfarin.

Actually, Kent, Coumadin (capitalized) is a brand name for the generic
drug warfarin sodium (not capitalized).

There are many brand names for warfarin sodium, as many as there are
manufacturers of warfarin sodium.


> Also we now use the terms Warfarin and Coumadin interchangeably. Warfarin
> was the original brand name for coumadin. Both terms as used today to
> characterize the same drug, even on prescriptions written by your local
> doctor.

Incorrect. Anyone who deals with insurance billing can explain the
difference to you, a difference applied to all medications available in
both brand and generic form.

Pennyaline wrote on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:46:27 -0700:

P> Kent wrote:
??>> Coumadin is the generic name applied to the drug
??>> Warfarin.

P> Actually, Kent, Coumadin (capitalized) is a brand name for
P> the generic drug warfarin sodium (not capitalized).

P> There are many brand names for warfarin sodium, as many as
P> there are manufacturers of warfarin sodium.

??>> Also we now use the terms Warfarin and Coumadin
??>> interchangeably. Warfarin was the original brand name for
??>> coumadin. Both terms as used today to characterize the
??>> same drug, even on prescriptions written by your local
??>> doctor.

This is a silly argument. I think many insurers ask to be
allowed to make generic substitutions, as does mine: BCBS. It is
superstition to believe that there is any difference except
sometimes in the color of the pills.


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:46:27 -0700, Pennyaline
> wrote:

>Kent wrote:
>> Coumadin is the generic name applied to the drug Warfarin.
>
>Actually, Kent, Coumadin (capitalized) is a brand name for the generic
>drug warfarin sodium (not capitalized).
>
>There are many brand names for warfarin sodium, as many as there are
>manufacturers of warfarin sodium.
>
>
>> Also we now use the terms Warfarin and Coumadin interchangeably. Warfarin
>> was the original brand name for coumadin. Both terms as used today to
>> characterize the same drug, even on prescriptions written by your local
>> doctor.
>
>Incorrect. Anyone who deals with insurance billing can explain the
>difference to you, a difference applied to all medications available in
>both brand and generic form.

It certainly makes a difference. When we get generic drugs, we have a
$3 co-pay. When we get the branded drug, the co-pay is $9.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On Dec 11, 11:55 pm, Arri London > wrote:
> James Silverton wrote:
>
> > "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > > BTW, coumadin, as you but not many others know, is the generic
> > > name for the drug.
> > > Warfarin is the old brand name. Warfarin stans for "Wisconsin
> > > Alumni Research Foundation", which held
> > > original copyright for the drug, where largely, it was
> > > developed. I'm an old UW alumnus.
>
> > Will someone please explain to me why the perfectly satisfactory
> > generic name warfarin should be changed to coumadin? I know
> > that, for some reason, I have my blood cotting time measured at
> > a "Coumadin Clinic".
>
> Do you really want to take a drug that sounds like 'warfare' regardless
> of the origin of the name LOL? Coumadin is the trademarked name of
> Dupont's brand of warfarin. Our local university hospital also has a
> 'coumadin' clinic.

If I recall correctly, the first time I heard of Warfarin was an
article in Reader's Digest in the early 1960's describing it as the
perfect way to kill rats.

Warfarin may not have been the perfect name for early patients who had
read that article. (You want me to take WHAT???)

I remember being a bit shocked when I heard that it was now a drug
for humans.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

John Kane wrote:

> Warfarin may not have been the perfect name for early patients who had
> read that article. (You want me to take WHAT???)
>
> I remember being a bit shocked when I heard that it was now a drug
> for humans.
>
> John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
>
You may be shocked by Botox too then
Which besides the cosmetic use, does have some more "legitimate" medical
uses too.

James Silverton wrote:
> Pennyaline wrote on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:46:27 -0700:
>
> P> Kent wrote:
> ??>> Coumadin is the generic name applied to the drug
> ??>> Warfarin.
>
> P> Actually, Kent, Coumadin (capitalized) is a brand name for
> P> the generic drug warfarin sodium (not capitalized).
>
> P> There are many brand names for warfarin sodium, as many as
> P> there are manufacturers of warfarin sodium.
>
> ??>> Also we now use the terms Warfarin and Coumadin
> ??>> interchangeably. Warfarin was the original brand name for
> ??>> coumadin. Both terms as used today to characterize the
> ??>> same drug, even on prescriptions written by your local
> ??>> doctor.
>
> This is a silly argument. I think many insurers ask to be allowed to
> make generic substitutions, as does mine: BCBS. It is superstition to
> believe that there is any difference except sometimes in the color of
> the pills.
>
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

I don't understand what it is you're attributing to me here, and I don't
understand where the argument about the *difference* between brand and
generics came from. What I do understand, intimately, is that insurance
companies will not reimburse brand name meds when generics are available
except under special circumstances.

When you've worked out what it is you're arguing and why you're arguing
it, try again. Maybe it will make sense.

Pennyaline wrote on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:49:15 -0700:

P> James Silverton wrote:
??>> Pennyaline wrote on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:46:27 -0700:
??>>
P>>> Kent wrote:
??>>>> Coumadin is the generic name applied to the drug
??>>>> Warfarin.
??>>
P>>> Actually, Kent, Coumadin (capitalized) is a brand name for
P>>> the generic drug warfarin sodium (not capitalized).
??>>
P>>> There are many brand names for warfarin sodium, as many as
P>>> there are manufacturers of warfarin sodium.
??>>
??>>>> Also we now use the terms Warfarin and Coumadin
??>>>> interchangeably. Warfarin was the original brand name
??>>>> for coumadin. Both terms as used today to characterize
??>>>> the same drug, even on prescriptions written by your
??>>>> local doctor.
??>>
??>> This is a silly argument. I think many insurers ask to be
??>> allowed to make generic substitutions, as does mine: BCBS.
It
??>> is superstition to believe that there is any difference
??>> except sometimes in the color of the pills.
??>>
??>> James Silverton
??>> Potomac, Maryland
??>>
??>> E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

P> I don't understand what it is you're attributing to me here,
P> and I don't understand where the argument about the
P> *difference* between brand and generics came from. What I do
P> understand, intimately, is that insurance companies will not
P> reimburse brand name meds when generics are available except
P> under special circumstances.

If anyone feels insulted, I apologise but that it's pretty
irrelevant arguing about generics was all I wanted to say
whoever maintained otherwise :-)


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Pennyaline wrote:

> I don't understand what it is you're attributing to me here, and I don't
> understand where the argument about the *difference* between brand and
> generics came from. What I do understand, intimately, is that insurance
> companies will not reimburse brand name meds when generics are available
> except under special circumstances.

Well.. mine will pay for both generic and name brand but if I want name
brand I have to pay a higher co-pay.

Kent wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > James Silverton wrote:
> >>
> >> "Kent" > wrote in message
> >> . ..
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > BTW, coumadin, as you but not many others know, is the generic
> >> > name for the drug.
> >> > Warfarin is the old brand name. Warfarin stans for "Wisconsin
> >> > Alumni Research Foundation", which held
> >> > original copyright for the drug, where largely, it was
> >> > developed. I'm an old UW alumnus.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Will someone please explain to me why the perfectly satisfactory
> >> generic name warfarin should be changed to coumadin? I know
> >> that, for some reason, I have my blood cotting time measured at
> >> a "Coumadin Clinic".
> >
> > Do you really want to take a drug that sounds like 'warfare' regardless
> > of the origin of the name LOL? Coumadin is the trademarked name of
> > Dupont's brand of warfarin. Our local university hospital also has a
> > 'coumadin' clinic.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jim Silverton
> >> Potomac, Maryland
> >
> >
> Coumadin is the generic name applied to the drug Warfarin. WARF had the
> original patent for coumadin and gave it the brand name of Warfarin.
> ACETYLSALICYLIC ACID is the generic name for the brand name ASPIRIN,
> originally owned by Bayer Co. Anybody can use the term ASA, or
> ACETYLSALICYLIC ACID. Nowadays we all use the term[s] aspirin or ASA
> interchangeably.
>
> Also we now use the terms Warfarin and Coumadin interchangeably. Warfarin
> was the original brand name for coumadin. Both terms as used today to
> characterize the same drug, even on prescriptions written by your local
> doctor.
>
> Kent

Coumadin is still a brand name. It was never a generic name.

James Silverton wrote:
>
> Arri wrote on Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:55:07 -0700:
>
> AL> James Silverton wrote:
> ??>>
> ??>> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ??>> . ..
> ??>>>
> ??>>> BTW, coumadin, as you but not many others know, is the
> ??>>> generic name for the drug. Warfarin is the old brand
> ??>>> name. Warfarin stans for "Wisconsin Alumni Research
> ??>>> Foundation", which held original copyright for the drug,
> ??>>> where largely, it was developed. I'm an old UW alumnus.
> ??>>>
> ??>> Will someone please explain to me why the perfectly
> ??>> satisfactory generic name warfarin should be changed to
> ??>> coumadin? I know that, for some reason, I have my blood
> ??>> cotting time measured at a "Coumadin Clinic".
>
> AL> Do you really want to take a drug that sounds like
> AL> 'warfare' regardless of the origin of the name LOL?
> AL> Coumadin is the trademarked name of Dupont's brand of
> AL> warfarin. Our local university hospital also has a
> AL> 'coumadin' clinic.
>
> I was fully aware of the identical nature of warfarin and
> coumadin and I guess the reason for the later name probably is
> psychological as you say. "Warfarin" does not bother me at all
> even if I that I knew it was used as a rat poison long before it
> was prescribed for me. Actually, "warfarin" is what it says on
> the bottle when I refill.
>
> James Silverton


Yes... clearly there is some confusion (see one of the above posts)
between the *generic* 'warfarin' and the *trademarked* 'Coumadin'. When
companies patent a drug they can name it anything they want to after
all. Of course it doesn't matter as long as the stuff does what it is
meant to do.

<sf> wrote in message ...
> My neighbor (another good cook) has been on Coumadin for years and
> I've never heard her talk about limiting onions.... so I'll ask her
> about it when she returns from vacation.
>
> sf

My wife is on it also. No onion restrictions. Very few limitations
actually.

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 22:39:32 -0500, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
><sf> wrote in message ...
>> My neighbor (another good cook) has been on Coumadin for years and
>> I've never heard her talk about limiting onions.... so I'll ask her
>> about it when she returns from vacation.
>>
>> sf
>
>My wife is on it also. No onion restrictions. Very few limitations
>actually.
>
Thanks, I haven't ever heard her talk of any food restrictions. She's
Central American and loves good food. Her limitations are all drug
related when she talks about it to me.

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first

<sf> wrote in message
>>My wife is on it also. No onion restrictions. Very few limitations
>>actually.
>>
> Thanks, I haven't ever heard her talk of any food restrictions. She's
> Central American and loves good food. Her limitations are all drug
> related when she talks about it to me.

There are interactions with food containing vitamin K (dark leafy greens)
and coumadin. The important thing there is moderation and consistency. If
you decide to eat spinach salads every day for dinner for a week, it will
throw your PT way out of whack. If you have a small salad ever couple of
days, it will be compensated for when tested and it will stay at that level.

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
. net...
>
> <sf> wrote in message
>>>My wife is on it also. No onion restrictions. Very few limitations
>>>actually.
>>>
>> Thanks, I haven't ever heard her talk of any food restrictions. She's
>> Central American and loves good food. Her limitations are all drug
>> related when she talks about it to me.
>
> There are interactions with food containing vitamin K (dark leafy greens)
> and coumadin. The important thing there is moderation and consistency.
> If you decide to eat spinach salads every day for dinner for a week, it
> will throw your PT way out of whack. If you have a small salad ever
> couple of days, it will be compensated for when tested and it will stay at
> that level.


Definitely good advice. This is what dear f-i-l follows.
Dee Dee

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:57:46 -0500, "Dee.Dee" >
wrote:

>
>"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
.net...
>>
>> <sf> wrote in message
>>>>My wife is on it also. No onion restrictions. Very few limitations
>>>>actually.
>>>>
>>> Thanks, I haven't ever heard her talk of any food restrictions. She's
>>> Central American and loves good food. Her limitations are all drug
>>> related when she talks about it to me.
>>
>> There are interactions with food containing vitamin K (dark leafy greens)
>> and coumadin. The important thing there is moderation and consistency.
>> If you decide to eat spinach salads every day for dinner for a week, it
>> will throw your PT way out of whack. If you have a small salad ever
>> couple of days, it will be compensated for when tested and it will stay at
>> that level.
>
>
>Definitely good advice. This is what dear f-i-l follows.
>Dee Dee
>

once again, many thanks to all those who responded. i'll be talking
to the old gentleman today and i'll pass the collective wisdom along.

your pal,
blake