We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
dream come true but it was a place to start.

I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.

js

--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com

"Jack Schmidling" > wrote in message
...
> We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
> dream come true but it was a place to start.
>
> I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
> a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.
>
> js
>
> --
> PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com

It would be interesting to know what growing zone you are in and what it
did to your electric bills.....Sharon in Canada, zone5

"biig" wrote:
> "Jack Schmidling" wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
> > dream come true but it was a place to start.
>
> > I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
> > a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.
>
> > js
>
> > --
> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK:http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silverhttp://schmidling.com
>
> � �It would be interesting to know what growing zone you are in and what it
> did to your electric bills.....Sharon in Canada, zone5

From the snow, manner of dress, and native flora I'd guess zone 6-7.
As to electric bills their gardening is obviously a hobby, not a
business... no one does recreational gardening to save money. Why do
so many people equate so much in their lives strictly with dollars and
cents... don't yoose ever enjoy anything just for the sake of pleasure
derived.

Jack Schmidling > wrote in news:13mfhl7kohgk3f8
@corp.supernews.com:

> We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
> dream come true but it was a place to start.
>
> I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
> a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.
>
> js
>

I'm going to have to make sure that the next time I get over to the States
is going to be around October..... in whatever year :-)

--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Jack and Jill
Went up the hill
And planned to do some kissing.
Jack made a pass
and grabbed her ass
Now two of his teeth are missing.

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
...
"biig" wrote:
> "Jack Schmidling" wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
> > dream come true but it was a place to start.
>
> > I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
> > a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.
>
> > js
>
> > --
> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK:http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silverhttp://schmidling.com
>
> ? ?It would be interesting to know what growing zone you are in and what
> it
> did to your electric bills.....Sharon in Canada, zone5

From the snow, manner of dress, and native flora I'd guess zone 6-7.
As to electric bills their gardening is obviously a hobby, not a
business... no one does recreational gardening to save money. Why do
so many people equate so much in their lives strictly with dollars and
cents... don't yoose ever enjoy anything just for the sake of pleasure
derived.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Because some budgets are not infinite, professor.

On Dec 18, 10:24�am, "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
> "Sheldon" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> "biig" wrote:
> > "Jack Schmidling" wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > > We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
> > > dream come true but it was a place to start.
>
> > > I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
> > > a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.
>
> > > js
>
> > > --
> > > PHOTO OF THE WEEK:http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> > > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silverhttp://schmidling.com
>
> > ? ?It would be interesting to know what growing zone you are in and what
> > it
> > did to your electric bills.....Sharon in Canada, zone5
>
> From the snow, manner of dress, and native flora I'd guess zone 6-7.
> As to electric bills their gardening is obviously a hobby, not a
> business... no one does recreational gardening to save money. �Why do
> so many people equate so much in their lives strictly with dollars and
> cents... don't yoose ever enjoy anything just for the sake of pleasure
> derived.
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Because some budgets are not infinite, professor

That post wasn't offered to discuss their pocketbook, it was obviously
offered in hopes people would join in celebrating their enjoyment of
something they find pleasurable, not for yoose sick bi-polars to poo
poo their happiness. Can't any of yoose clinically depressed folks
ever look at the glass half *full*.... sheesh, so much resentment of
anyone enjoying their life. The poster didn't ask you to pay for
their greenhouse.

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:51:09 -0800 (PST), Sheldon >
wrote:

>"biig" wrote:
>> "Jack Schmidling" wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
>> > dream come true but it was a place to start.
>>
>> > I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
>> > a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.
>>
>> > js
>>
>> > --
>> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK:http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
>> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silverhttp://schmidling.com
>>
>> ? ?It would be interesting to know what growing zone you are in and what it
>> did to your electric bills.....Sharon in Canada, zone5
>
>From the snow, manner of dress, and native flora I'd guess zone 6-7.
>As to electric bills their gardening is obviously a hobby, not a
>business... no one does recreational gardening to save money. Why do
>so many people equate so much in their lives strictly with dollars and
>cents... don't yoose ever enjoy anything just for the sake of pleasure
>derived.

4-5 depending on what map you look at.

Lou

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:09:56 -0800, Jack Schmidling >
wrote:

>We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
>dream come true but it was a place to start.
>
>I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
>a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.
>
>js

>We decided to invest "a bit more" money into the program and came up
>with this one after much shopping around. The 4 hours estimated assembly
>time turned into more like 4 days due, primarily to the very poor quality of
>hardware supplied with the kit.

>The actual structural parts and glazing are very nice but it's like the kingdom
> that was lost because of a faulty horseshoe nail. For some reason, the
>Chinese just can't get the nuts and bolts right and the crude instructions
>didn't help much either. I definitely would not recommend this model to
>anyone without a gift for improvising.

Great pictures Jack. The whole DIY thing is rather silly. I can't
tell you how many kits I've bought and had to get replacement
hardware. I bought a New Braunfels smoker years ago and had to drill
all the holes out bigger and use bigger and better nuts and bolts. I
had to have a bit of welding done because the wheels would have fallen
off.

Anyway I'd love to have your greenhouse. Have fun.

Lou

On Dec 18, 10:52�am, Lou Decruss > wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:51:09 -0800 (PST), Sheldon >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"biig" wrote:
> >> "Jack Schmidling" wrote:
>
> ...
>
> >> > We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
> >> > dream come true but it was a place to start.
>
> >> > I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
> >> > a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.
>
> >> > js
>
> >> > --
> >> > PHOTO OF THE WEEK:http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
> >> > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silverhttp://schmidling.com
>
> >> ? ?It would be interesting to know what growing zone you are in and what it
> >> did to your electric bills.....Sharon in Canada, zone5
>
> >From the snow, manner of dress, and native flora I'd guess zone 6-7.
> >As to electric bills their gardening is obviously a hobby, not a
> >business... no one does recreational gardening to save money. �Why do
> >so many people equate so much in their lives strictly with dollars and
> >cents... don't yoose ever enjoy anything just for the sake of pleasure
> >derived.
>
> 4-5 depending on what map you look at.

Yes, after perusing their web site it seems they're in Marengo Ill...
perhaps most of those photos are from a month or two ago, seems only
the one with snow is more recent... looks like a relatively mild
season for that area. I've been contemplating a greenhouse of sorts
myself, but I'm thinking more along the lines of a smallish (12' X
12') four season shed-like structure attached to my house, I need
something substantial if it's to hold up to the winters here... I'm
wondering how that plastic sheet structure will hold up to wind and
snowload, I don't think it would last very long here and I'm in the
same zone 5. And If I set it out somewhere in the open I'd not be
able to get to it very easily with the typical one and two foot+ snow
falls not to mention drifts over my head. The rear of my house faces
dead south so it's in full sun all year, but even so I wonder what it
would cost to heat! hehe What a stupid question, anyone installing a
greenhouse realizes it must cost something for maintaining temperature
in cold climes... as dumb a question as someone going to buy a yacht
and asking how many knots per gallon... yoose think golfers care how
much balls cost... that would be like someone buying an All-Clad pot
but can only afford to use it to cook ramen.

On Dec 18, 11:25�am, Lou Decruss > wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:09:56 -0800, Jack Schmidling >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
> >dream come true but it was a place to start.
>
> >I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
> >a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.
>
> >js
> >We decided to invest "a bit more" money into the program and came up
> >with this one after much shopping around. The 4 hours estimated assembly
> >time turned into more like 4 days due, primarily to the very poor quality of
> >hardware supplied with the kit.
> >The actual structural parts and glazing are very nice but it's like the kingdom
> > that was lost because of a faulty horseshoe nail. For some reason, the
> >Chinese just can't get the nuts and bolts right and the crude instructions
> >didn't help much either. I definitely would not recommend this model to
> >anyone without a gift for improvising.
>
> Great pictures Jack. �The whole DIY thing is rather silly. �I can't
> tell you how many kits I've bought and had to get replacement
> hardware. �I bought a New Braunfels smoker years ago and had to drill
> all the holes out bigger and use bigger and better nuts and bolts. �I
> had to have a bit of welding done because the wheels would have fallen
> off. �

I've had the same experience with DIY kits, often terrible
instructions and poor fasteners... the last one was a simple trash can
cart, cost like all of $16, took me about four hours to figure it out
and retool to make the parts fit.

> Anyway �I'd love to have your greenhouse.

I wish I could have something so simple but I doubt it would last very
long in this climate. I've been tossing around the idea of a sort of
greenhouse for the five years I've been here and finally decided it
would make more sense for me to have something like these:
http://www.patioenc.com/Products/Conservatories.aspx

http://www.greenhousesetc.com/conservatories.shtml

SHELDON

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:10:08 -0800 (PST), Sheldon >
wrote:

>On Dec 18, 11:25?am, Lou Decruss > wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:09:56 -0800, Jack Schmidling >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
>> >dream come true but it was a place to start.
>>
>> >I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
>> >a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.
>>
>> >js
>> >We decided to invest "a bit more" money into the program and came up
>> >with this one after much shopping around. The 4 hours estimated assembly
>> >time turned into more like 4 days due, primarily to the very poor quality of
>> >hardware supplied with the kit.
>> >The actual structural parts and glazing are very nice but it's like the kingdom
>> > that was lost because of a faulty horseshoe nail. For some reason, the
>> >Chinese just can't get the nuts and bolts right and the crude instructions
>> >didn't help much either. I definitely would not recommend this model to
>> >anyone without a gift for improvising.
>>
>> Great pictures Jack. ?The whole DIY thing is rather silly. ?I can't
>> tell you how many kits I've bought and had to get replacement
>> hardware. ?I bought a New Braunfels smoker years ago and had to drill
>> all the holes out bigger and use bigger and better nuts and bolts. ?I
>> had to have a bit of welding done because the wheels would have fallen
>> off. ?
>
>I've had the same experience with DIY kits, often terrible
>instructions and poor fasteners... the last one was a simple trash can
>cart, cost like all of $16, took me about four hours to figure it out
>and retool to make the parts fit.

That's why it was so cheap. The parts are all chinese made, and the
hardware is cheap. Many times I just toss the hardware in the
recycling bin and use all new. Mini-blind hardware is the worst.
Just use real screws for those.
>
>> Anyway ?I'd love to have your greenhouse.
>
>I wish I could have something so simple but I doubt it would last very
>long in this climate. I've been tossing around the idea of a sort of
>greenhouse for the five years I've been here and finally decided it
>would make more sense for me to have something like these:
>http://www.patioenc.com/Products/Conservatories.aspx
>
>http://www.greenhousesetc.com/conservatories.shtml
>

Those are cool. But do you need an extra room? In your situation I'd
dig down a bit to use the earth as insulation. Sounds like you need
to decide if you want a room or a greenhouse. Either way, attached to
the house is the way to go. I don't and never have had a greenhouse,
but Louise has more gardening books than I have cookbooks. From what
I've read, using the earth is the way to go. It depends on the
budget. Paying it forward you'll save money, and enjoy your
investment.

Lou

On Dec 18, 8:34 am, Sheldon > wrote:
> [snip] .... I've been contemplating a greenhouse of sorts
> myself, but I'm thinking more along the lines of a smallish (12' X
> 12') four season shed-like structure attached to my house, I need
> something substantial if it's to hold up to the winters here... [snip]
> The rear of my house faces
> dead south so it's in full sun all year, but even so I wonder what it
> would cost to heat! hehe What a stupid question, anyone installing a
> greenhouse realizes it must cost something for maintaining temperature
> in cold climes...[snip]

And I'm not sure you need to think in terms of heating the whole shed/
room. A friend in Oregon has a stand-alone greenhouse about 8' x 12'
which he heats only a few days per the typical winter when they get a
hard freeze. The rest of the time he uses some kind of warming
devices that just keep seedbeds and pots/trays warm. Task lights on a
timer targeted for specific plants when he wants to jumpstart
something. This approach, he says, minimizes the electric bill. -
aem

On Dec 18, 1:04�pm, Lou Decruss > wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:10:08 -0800 (PST), Sheldon >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Dec 18, 11:25?am, Lou Decruss > wrote:
> >> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:09:56 -0800, Jack Schmidling >
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
> >> >dream come true but it was a place to start.
>
> >> >I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
> >> >a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.
>
> >> >js
> >> >We decided to invest "a bit more" money into the program and came up
> >> >with this one after much shopping around. The 4 hours estimated assembly
> >> >time turned into more like 4 days due, primarily to the very poor quality of
> >> >hardware supplied with the kit.
> >> >The actual structural parts and glazing are very nice but it's like the kingdom
> >> > that was lost because of a faulty horseshoe nail. For some reason, the
> >> >Chinese just can't get the nuts and bolts right and the crude instructions
> >> >didn't help much either. I definitely would not recommend this model to
> >> >anyone without a gift for improvising.
>
> >> Great pictures Jack. ?The whole DIY thing is rather silly. ?I can't
> >> tell you how many kits I've bought and had to get replacement
> >> hardware. ?I bought a New Braunfels smoker years ago and had to drill
> >> all the holes out bigger and use bigger and better nuts and bolts. ?I
> >> had to have a bit of welding done because the wheels would have fallen
> >> off. ?
>
> >I've had the same experience with DIY kits, often terrible
> >instructions and poor fasteners... the last one was a simple trash can
> >cart, cost like all of $16, took me about four hours to figure it out
> >and retool to make the parts fit.
>
> That's why it was so cheap. �The parts are all chinese made, and the
> hardware is cheap. �Many times I just toss the hardware in the
> recycling bin and use all new. �Mini-blind hardware is the worst.
> Just use real screws for those. �
>
>
>
> >> Anyway ?I'd love to have your greenhouse.
>
> >I wish I could have something so simple but I doubt it would last very
> >long in this climate. �I've been tossing around the idea of a sort of
> >greenhouse for the five years I've been here and finally decided it
> >would make more sense for me to have something like these:
> >http://www.patioenc.com/Products/Conservatories.aspx
>
> >http://www.greenhousesetc.com/conservatories.shtml
>
> Those are cool. �But do you need an extra room? �In your situation I'd
> dig down a bit to use the earth as insulation. �Sounds like you need
> to decide if you want a room or a greenhouse. �Either way, attached to
> the house is the way to go. �I don't and never have had a greenhouse,
> but Louise has more gardening books than I have cookbooks. �From what
> I've read, using the earth is the way to go. �It depends on the
> budget. �Paying it forward you'll save money, and enjoy your
> investment.

Underground you're talking of a "cold frame". a very different concept
from a greenhouse.

cold frame
noun
: a usually glass- or plastic-covered frame without artificial heat
used to protect plants and seedlings outdoors

A cold frame can cost next to nothing but it's not something one uses
as living space, not even for grown plants.

http://tinyurl.com/23hb39

http://reference.aol.com/dictionary_...e=cold%20frame
http://reference.aol.com/dictionary_...e=cold%20frame

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:22:50 -0800 (PST), Sheldon >
wrote:

>> Those are cool. ?But do you need an extra room? ?In your situation I'd
>> dig down a bit to use the earth as insulation. ?Sounds like you need
>> to decide if you want a room or a greenhouse. ?Either way, attached to
>> the house is the way to go. ?I don't and never have had a greenhouse,
>> but Louise has more gardening books than I have cookbooks. ?From what
>> I've read, using the earth is the way to go. ?It depends on the
>> budget. ?Paying it forward you'll save money, and enjoy your
>> investment.
>
>Underground you're talking of a "cold frame". a very different concept
>from a greenhouse.

I know what a cold frame is.

>A cold frame can cost next to nothing but it's not something one uses
>as living space, not even for grown plants.

Which is why I said "it sounds like you need to decide if you want a
room or a greenhouse."

The rooms you posted pictures of were raised off the ground. If it
were me I'd be able to walk out to earth. Do you know anything about
construction or foundations?

Lou

On Dec 18, 1:04�pm, Lou Decruss > wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:10:08 -0800 (PST), Sheldon >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Dec 18, 11:25?am, Lou Decruss > wrote:
> >> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:09:56 -0800, Jack Schmidling >
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
> >> >dream come true but it was a place to start.
>
> >> >I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and
> >> >a place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.
>
> >> >js
> >> >We decided to invest "a bit more" money into the program and came up
> >> >with this one after much shopping around. The 4 hours estimated assembly
> >> >time turned into more like 4 days due, primarily to the very poor quality of
> >> >hardware supplied with the kit.
> >> >The actual structural parts and glazing are very nice but it's like the kingdom
> >> > that was lost because of a faulty horseshoe nail. For some reason, the
> >> >Chinese just can't get the nuts and bolts right and the crude instructions
> >> >didn't help much either. I definitely would not recommend this model to
> >> >anyone without a gift for improvising.
>
> >> Great pictures Jack. ?The whole DIY thing is rather silly. ?I can't
> >> tell you how many kits I've bought and had to get replacement
> >> hardware. ?I bought a New Braunfels smoker years ago and had to drill
> >> all the holes out bigger and use bigger and better nuts and bolts. ?I
> >> had to have a bit of welding done because the wheels would have fallen
> >> off. ?
>
> >I've had the same experience with DIY kits, often terrible
> >instructions and poor fasteners... the last one was a simple trash can
> >cart, cost like all of $16, took me about four hours to figure it out
> >and retool to make the parts fit.
>
> That's why it was so cheap. �The parts are all chinese made, and the
> hardware is cheap. �Many times I just toss the hardware in the
> recycling bin and use all new. �Mini-blind hardware is the worst.
> Just use real screws for those. �
>
>
>
> >> Anyway ?I'd love to have your greenhouse.
>
> >I wish I could have something so simple but I doubt it would last very
> >long in this climate. �I've been tossing around the idea of a sort of
> >greenhouse for the five years I've been here and finally decided it
> >would make more sense for me to have something like these:
> >http://www.patioenc.com/Products/Conservatories.aspx
>
> >http://www.greenhousesetc.com/conservatories.shtml
>
> Those are cool. �But do you need an extra room?

I wouldn't call a conservatory an extra room or a need... that's like
calling an inground swimming pool an extra bath tub and deeming it a
necessity. I always wanted a conservatory, a nice way to enjoy my
plants and my outside view... and it sure would be nice to have a
conservatory that contained a swimming pool. okay, a spa. One of my
neighbors had a 3 season room added, it's very nice, probably the
most popular room in the house. But were it me I'd have gone all the
way and for a few dollars more made it an all season room, because in
this clime without heat and insulation you really can't use it from
October thru April... that's half the year that it can't be enjoyed.
I think it would be a nice addition to my office, and I really
wouldn't want the spa, if I did choose a water feature I'd rather a
small koi pool... do I really need these things, no, does anyone. No
one needs to do recreational gardening either.

Sheldon > expounded:

>Underground you're talking of a "cold frame". a very different concept
>from a greenhouse.
>
>cold frame
>noun
>: a usually glass- or plastic-covered frame without artificial heat
>used to protect plants and seedlings outdoors

Try standing up in a cold frame, Sheldon.
>
>A cold frame can cost next to nothing but it's not something one uses
>as living space, not even for grown plants.

True, but there are also greenhouses that are dug into the ground to
use the earth's natural insulation. Commonly called a pit greenhouse.
Google away.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

biig wrote:


> It would be interesting to know what growing zone you are in and what it
> did to your electric bills.....Sharon in Canada, zone5

Northern Illinois, whatever that is.

We just got an electric bill and it looks like about $125 for that
month. However, it is much colder now and we had to add another 1500W
heater to maintain 65F. Interestingly, this is exactly what was
predicted from the nifty calculator I found somewhere on the net.

You plug in the dimensions, material and desired temp and the lowest
outside temp and it came up with 3000 W. Allowing for various outside
temps and sunshine, I now estimate about $200 a month.

I have been arguing with myself and my wife about spending $50 a month
for high speed access and our frugality just says no but no problem with
$200 for a tomato.

We all have our priorities.

js


--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com

Ann wrote:

> True, but there are also greenhouses that are dug into the ground to
> use the earth's natural insulation. Commonly called a pit greenhouse.
> Google away.

I will but after setting ours up, I learned that more heat is lost
through the ground than through the glazed exposed surfaces. This seems
hard to believe but thinking about that electric bill, we put down a
double layer of TechFoil and one inch styrofoam sheets. TechFoil is
basically two layers of bubble wrap between two layers of heavy aluminum
foil.

Seems to me if what you say is true, all of this was for naught. I
suppose if you dug it far below the frost line this would help but
nothing down there would be in reach of the Sunlight so I guess I need
to Google.

js



--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com

"Jack Schmidling" > wrote in message
...
> We have always dreamed of having a green house. This one isn't exactly a
> dream come true but it was a place to start.
>
> I have put together a Greenhouse page for more background, pictures and a
> place to post futures pictures of our activities therein.

It's obvious that it gives you a lot of pleasure and I can certainly
understand that. Very nice but all that white stuff is enough to make me
appreciate my mere frosty winters.

And the spinning is great. I'm just spinning some dog, alpaca and wool mix.

"Lou Decruss" > wrote in message
In your situation I'd
> dig down a bit to use the earth as insulation. Sounds like you need
> to decide if you want a room or a greenhouse. Either way, attached to
> the house is the way to go. I don't and never have had a greenhouse,
> but Louise has more gardening books than I have cookbooks. From what
> I've read, using the earth is the way to go.

I know of someone who grows grapes in a climate which in Australia is
considered cold (ie heavy frost and too little summer sun to ripen grapes).
He grows them in what he calls 'sun pits'. Basically these are just deep
trenches in the ground on a North facing slope and with some clear roofing
material thown on top. They work - cheap but effective.

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:30:49 +1100, "FarmI" <ask@itshall be given>
wrote:

>I know of someone who grows grapes in a climate which in Australia is
>considered cold (ie heavy frost and too little summer sun to ripen grapes).
>He grows them in what he calls 'sun pits'. Basically these are just deep
>trenches in the ground on a North facing slope and with some clear roofing
>material thown on top. They work - cheap but effective.

My first reaction was "north"? Then I remembered the hemisphere.
<slapping forehead>

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On 12/18/07 11:08 PM, in article , "Jack
Schmidling" > wrote:

> biig wrote:
>
>
>> It would be interesting to know what growing zone you are in and what it
>> did to your electric bills.....Sharon in Canada, zone5
>
> Northern Illinois, whatever that is.
>
> We just got an electric bill and it looks like about $125 for that
> month. However, it is much colder now and we had to add another 1500W
> heater to maintain 65F. Interestingly, this is exactly what was
> predicted from the nifty calculator I found somewhere on the net.
>
> You plug in the dimensions, material and desired temp and the lowest
> outside temp and it came up with 3000 W. Allowing for various outside
> temps and sunshine, I now estimate about $200 a month.
>
> I have been arguing with myself and my wife about spending $50 a month
> for high speed access and our frugality just says no but no problem with
> $200 for a tomato.
>
> We all have our priorities.
>
> js
>

Be wary of going the high speed route - you'll never be able to go back.

C

Jack Schmidling > expounded:

>
>Seems to me if what you say is true, all of this was for naught. I
>suppose if you dug it far below the frost line this would help but
>nothing down there would be in reach of the Sunlight so I guess I need
>to Google.

Oh, the Google armark wasn't meant for you, Jack, but yes, it's true,
here are a few links for those interested:

http://www.keppelcroft.com/greenhouses.html

http://winsfordwalledgarden.com/gree...Page=pit_house

http://www.geocities.com/%7Enewliberty/tools.htm
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"Jack Schmidling" > wrote in message
...
> biig wrote:
>
>
> > It would be interesting to know what growing zone you are in and what
it
> > did to your electric bills.....Sharon in Canada, zone5
>
> Northern Illinois, whatever that is.
>
> We just got an electric bill and it looks like about $125 for that
> month. However, it is much colder now and we had to add another 1500W
> heater to maintain 65F. Interestingly, this is exactly what was
> predicted from the nifty calculator I found somewhere on the net.
>
> You plug in the dimensions, material and desired temp and the lowest
> outside temp and it came up with 3000 W. Allowing for various outside
> temps and sunshine, I now estimate about $200 a month.
>
> I have been arguing with myself and my wife about spending $50 a month
> for high speed access and our frugality just says no but no problem with
> $200 for a tomato.
>
> We all have our priorities.

I'm not THAT fond of tomatoes....lol... I have a much smaller version
of your first one that I'll use to start things in the spring.
Sharon, on a pension and a tight budget.

Sheldon wrote:

>>That's why it was so cheap. �The parts are all chinese made, and the
>>hardware is cheap. �Many times I just toss the hardware in the
>>recycling bin and use all new.

In this case, it wasn't so simple. Many of the screws are square heads
that fit into slots in the extrusions. There were other odd ball screws
that could not be substituted.

The two problems that plagued us was that even using MM tools, the same
heads and nuts were all different sizes and I had to grind open end
wrenches to fit them all.

There were also many screws that were not completely threaded and if
this was discovered after it was slid into the slot and assembled, it
meant taking the whole assembly apart to replace it.

At all the corners, the nuts bumped into each other so you couldn't
tighten both nuts without making a special wrench.

Peeling the protective wrap from the glazing was a nightmare until we
found that soaking the sheet with paint thinner made it a lot easier
but messier. Not a word about this in the instructions.

Great fun,

js

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On Dec 18, 11:08�pm, Jack Schmidling > wrote:
> biig wrote:
> > � �It would be interesting to know what growing zone you are in and what it
> > did to your electric bills.....Sharon in Canada, zone5
>
> Northern Illinois, whatever that is.
>
> We just got an electric bill and it looks like about $125 for that
> month. �However, it is much colder now and we had to add another 1500W
> heater to maintain 65F. �Interestingly, this is exactly what was
> predicted from the nifty calculator I found somewhere on the net.
>
> You plug in the dimensions, material and desired temp and the lowest
> outside temp and it came up with 3000 W. �Allowing for various outside
> temps and sunshine, I now estimate about $200 a month.
>
> I have been arguing with myself and my wife about spending $50 a month
> for high speed access and our frugality just says no but no problem with
> $200 for a tomato.
>
> We all have our priorities.

If you place a desktop PC in your greenhouse you can capture all the
heat it expels.... might just pay for your high speed connection. But
$50/mo seems rather high... here in NY Verizon charges $30 for DSL and
they have an introductory offer of the first three months free, and
with DSL you don't need to pay for an extra phone line. Also with
DSL for a few more dollars you can opt for higher speed, I pay $2/mo
more for almost double speed, the next higher speed (T1 line) is much
higher but so is the cost. These days it's a false economy using dial
up... the only reason to use dial up is if no other option is
available where you live.

On Dec 19, 8:35Â*am, Jack Schmidling > wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> >>That's why it was so cheap. �The parts are all chinese made, and the
> >>hardware is cheap. �Many times I just toss the hardware in the
> >>recycling bin and use all new.

I didn't write that.


> In this case, it wasn't so simple. Â*Many of the screws are square heads
> that fit into slots in the extrusions. Â*There were other odd ball screws
> that could not be substituted.
<snip>

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 05:35:10 -0800, Jack Schmidling >
wrote:

>Sheldon wrote:
>
>>>That's why it was so cheap. ?The parts are all chinese made, and the
>>>hardware is cheap. ?Many times I just toss the hardware in the
>>>recycling bin and use all new.
>
>In this case, it wasn't so simple. Many of the screws are square heads
>that fit into slots in the extrusions. There were other odd ball screws
>that could not be substituted.
>
>The two problems that plagued us was that even using MM tools, the same
>heads and nuts were all different sizes and I had to grind open end
>wrenches to fit them all.
>
>There were also many screws that were not completely threaded and if
>this was discovered after it was slid into the slot and assembled, it
>meant taking the whole assembly apart to replace it.
>
>At all the corners, the nuts bumped into each other so you couldn't
>tighten both nuts without making a special wrench.
>
>Peeling the protective wrap from the glazing was a nightmare until we
>found that soaking the sheet with paint thinner made it a lot easier
>but messier. Not a word about this in the instructions.
>
>Great fun,
>
>js

Sounds like a real pita. But at least now you've got tomatoes <g>

Lou

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
news
>> ? ?It would be interesting to know what growing zone you are in and what
>> it
>> did to your electric bills.....Sharon in Canada, zone5
>
> From the snow, manner of dress, and native flora I'd guess zone 6-7.
> As to electric bills their gardening is obviously a hobby, not a
> business... no one does recreational gardening to save money. Why do
> so many people equate so much in their lives strictly with dollars and
> cents... don't yoose ever enjoy anything just for the sake of pleasure
> derived.
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> Because some budgets are not infinite, professor.
Amen, Mr. Sparebedroom. I don't believe Jack's post even mentioned cost or
monetary returns. Do these same "calculating" people haul spreadsheet to
every corner of their gardens to justify the time and cost of esthetic value
and personal fulfillment?
I had a 12 X 26 foot greenhouse when I lived in NW Montana. One end was
connected to the wall of the garage. I heated it with a wood stove, back up
propane heater and had lights (because of long winter nights). I figured it
cost me close to $120 a month to keep it up and running during the winter.
For the pleasure I derived working in my "vacation home", sitting on my
bench potting things up or grooming and fiddling with my plants in my warm,
peaceful greenhouse when the snow was blowing sideways drove away any
thoughts of cost. It was money better spent than one week in Hawaii. Some
things you can't put a price on. I'm sure you and wife will love your
greenhouse, Jack......until you decide you need a bigger one, this is the
only drawback of a greenhouse....no matter what the size, soon it's never
big enough

Val

Val wrote:

> I'm sure you and wife will love your
> greenhouse, Jack......until you decide you need a bigger one, this is the
> only drawback of a greenhouse....no matter what the size, soon it's never
> big enough

Sitting there with our beer and peanuts and book on tape this afternoon,
we pondered just where we are going to put all our start ups in Spring.
It's already far too small.

js

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