Can't find anything online...... We live at Cliftonville, just to
the east of Margate, Kent. On our beach walks I have seen quite a few
mussels. Does anybody know how to tell if they are ok to eat? There is
a sewage outfall not too far away but I believe that it is treated
now. The beach is relatively clean. Is it a case that if the mussels
taste fine they really are?

Pete wrote on Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:56:16 -0800 (PST):

PL> Can't find anything online...... We live at Cliftonville,
PL> just to the east of Margate, Kent. On our beach walks I
PL> have seen quite a few mussels. Does anybody know how to
PL> tell if they are ok to eat? There is a sewage outfall not
PL> too far away but I believe that it is treated now. The
PL> beach is relatively clean. Is it a case that if the mussels
PL> taste fine they really are?

Food poisoning from contaminated mussels is unfortunately common
and I must assume they tasted well. Unless you live in a largish
sparsely populated area, I would advise buying the mussels. I
have seen mussels being farmed near National beaches in
Washington State and I suppose wild mussels there would be safe
tho' I've never tried them.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Pete L" > wrote in message
...
> Can't find anything online...... We live at Cliftonville, just to
> the east of Margate, Kent. On our beach walks I have seen quite a few
> mussels. Does anybody know how to tell if they are ok to eat? There is
> a sewage outfall not too far away but I believe that it is treated
> now. The beach is relatively clean. Is it a case that if the mussels
> taste fine they really are?


If I were you, I'd call this state agency before eating them:

http://www.dep.ky.gov/

They have wildlife biologists on staff who can give you more information
about the species, as well as the condition of the water they live in.
Mussels filter water constantly. You should be concerned about WHAT they're
filtering from the water.

They may also be a protected species, although I didn't read enough of this
article to be su

http://fw.ky.gov/newsrelease.asp?nid...vPath=C101C552

On Jan 15, 5:14 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
> "Pete L" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Can't find anything online...... We live at Cliftonville, just to
> > the east of Margate, Kent. On our beach walks I have seen quite a few
> > mussels. Does anybody know how to tell if they are ok to eat? There is
> > a sewage outfall not too far away but I believe that it is treated
> > now. The beach is relatively clean. Is it a case that if the mussels
> > taste fine they really are?
>
> If I were you, I'd call this state agency before eating them:
>
> http://www.dep.ky.gov/
>
> They have wildlife biologists on staff who can give you more information
> about the species, as well as the condition of the water they live in.
> Mussels filter water constantly. You should be concerned about WHAT they're
> filtering from the water.
>
> They may also be a protected species, although I didn't read enough of this
> article to be su
>
> http://fw.ky.gov/newsrelease.asp?nid...vPath=C101C552

Good advice but how likely are Kentukey biologists to be up to date
with beaches in the south of England?

James Silverton wrote:
>
>
> Food poisoning from contaminated mussels is unfortunately common
> and I must assume they tasted well. Unless you live in a largish
> sparsely populated area, I would advise buying the mussels. I
> have seen mussels being farmed near National beaches in
> Washington State and I suppose wild mussels there would be safe
> tho' I've never tried them.


My wife once reacted badly to mussels. She had had them for lunch and was
so sick she had to be driven home. When I got home from work she was
still in a bad way. She was almost as bad as I once got with a case of food
poisoning. I used to like mussels, but seeing her that sick really turned
me off them. It was like my poisoning experience all over again.

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
news:i5ajj.10584$KU.10387@trnddc01...
> Pete wrote on Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:56:16 -0800 (PST):
>
> PL> Can't find anything online...... We live at Cliftonville,
> PL> just to the east of Margate, Kent. On our beach walks I
> PL> have seen quite a few mussels. Does anybody know how to
> PL> tell if they are ok to eat? There is a sewage outfall not
> PL> too far away but I believe that it is treated now. The
> PL> beach is relatively clean. Is it a case that if the mussels
> PL> taste fine they really are?
>
> Food poisoning from contaminated mussels is unfortunately common and I
> must assume they tasted well. Unless you live in a largish sparsely
> populated area, I would advise buying the mussels. I have seen mussels
> being farmed near National beaches in Washington State and I suppose wild
> mussels there would be safe tho' I've never tried them.
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>

In the 70's when we lived in the Puget Sound (WA), we gathered mussels, but
not when we returned in the late 80's. We had no problems then.
Dee Dee

Pete L wrote:
> Can't find anything online...... We live at Cliftonville, just to
> the east of Margate, Kent. On our beach walks I have seen quite a few
> mussels. Does anybody know how to tell if they are ok to eat? There is
> a sewage outfall not too far away but I believe that it is treated
> now. The beach is relatively clean. Is it a case that if the mussels
> taste fine they really are?


As much as I love mussels, I wouldn't eat them if they were near a
sewage outfall.
Treated or not, you don't know what's in that flow. Taste is no
guarantee of safety.

gloria p

Pete L > wrote in news:983f1133-cfa7-4d5d-
:

> Can't find anything online...... We live at Cliftonville, just to
> the east of Margate, Kent. On our beach walks I have seen quite a few
> mussels.


Wouldn't that be Venice Beach, California?? ;-P

And what's that weird shaped thing at Reculver (to the west of you) that
looks like a maze?




> Does anybody know how to tell if they are ok to eat? There is
> a sewage outfall not too far away but I believe that it is treated
> now.



How far away is it? Kingsgate?



> The beach is relatively clean.


Princes Walk, or Foreness Bay?


>Is it a case that if the mussels
> taste fine they really are?


I'd be wary of the little bugs :-)

Seems the East coast has always had a problem with their mussels and
bugs.........

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=002...C364%3ATOOMI(%
3E2.0.CO%3B2-8

http://tinyurl.com/ywu6yt


and......

http://books.google.com/books?id=_EC...A123&lpg=PA123
&dq=mussels+england+near+sewage+outfall&source=web &ots=HsReWcJgLX&sig=pN
8IMc9bUP0ve0f36bSuUoJHxgA


http://tinyurl.com/25atmv



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in
:

> "Pete L" > wrote in message
> news:983f1133-cfa7-4d5d-94c4-75323111a747
@n22g2000prh.googlegroups.com.
> ..
>> Can't find anything online...... We live at Cliftonville, just to
>> the east of Margate, Kent. On our beach walks I have seen quite a few
>> mussels. Does anybody know how to tell if they are ok to eat? There
>> is a sewage outfall not too far away but I believe that it is treated
>> now. The beach is relatively clean. Is it a case that if the mussels
>> taste fine they really are?
>
>
> If I were you, I'd call this state agency before eating them:
>
> http://www.dep.ky.gov/
>


That would be fine if he was a redneck from Kentucky.

Not much good when he's just a good golly hoik from the Frenchies.


Go to Google Earth and type in Cliftonville, Margate, Kent.


Quite interesting with all the fortifications, pillboxes etc dotted
every couple hundred meters along the coast.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


Wars begin where you will...
but they do not end where you please.

Machiavelli

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:03:58 GMT, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

> Pete wrote on Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:56:16 -0800 (PST):
>
> PL> Can't find anything online...... We live at Cliftonville,
> PL> just to the east of Margate, Kent. On our beach walks I
> PL> have seen quite a few mussels. Does anybody know how to
> PL> tell if they are ok to eat? There is a sewage outfall not
> PL> too far away but I believe that it is treated now. The
> PL> beach is relatively clean. Is it a case that if the mussels
> PL> taste fine they really are?
>
>Food poisoning from contaminated mussels is unfortunately common
>and I must assume they tasted well. Unless you live in a largish
>sparsely populated area, I would advise buying the mussels. I
>have seen mussels being farmed near National beaches in
>Washington State and I suppose wild mussels there would be safe
>tho' I've never tried them.
>
>James Silverton
>Potomac, Maryland
>
I would not eat shellfish (or finned fish) if they are harvested near
a sewage site, even if the sewage was treated.

Otherwise *don't * eat shellfish during "red tide" times.

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first

Pete L wrote:
>
> Can't find anything online...... We live at Cliftonville, just to
> the east of Margate, Kent. On our beach walks I have seen quite a few
> mussels. Does anybody know how to tell if they are ok to eat? There is
> a sewage outfall not too far away but I believe that it is treated
> now. The beach is relatively clean. Is it a case that if the mussels
> taste fine they really are?

Talk to your local water authority and to the local. They'll know if the
water is clean enough to harvest wild mussels.

Also see he news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4771781.stm

Water and beach at Margate were clean in 2006 at any rate. Nice place,
that!

Pete L wrote:
>
> Can't find anything online...... We live at Cliftonville, just to
> the east of Margate, Kent. On our beach walks I have seen quite a few
> mussels. Does anybody know how to tell if they are ok to eat? There is
> a sewage outfall not too far away but I believe that it is treated
> now. The beach is relatively clean. Is it a case that if the mussels
> taste fine they really are?

I've read some interesting case reports on paralytic
shellfish poisoning. In one case in Canada, a victim
was so paralyzed that the emergency medical team was
convinced he was dead, yet he was not only alive but
fully conscious, and he remembers hearing the EMT crew
talking about just how dead he was. In most cases
that are that severe, you don't survive unless you're
put on a respirator, and some people have survived PSP
only because an alert rescuer put them on respirators
when others might not have bothered to try.

Mark Thorson wrote:

> I've read some interesting case reports on paralytic
> shellfish poisoning. In one case in Canada, a victim
> was so paralyzed that the emergency medical team was
> convinced he was dead, yet he was not only alive but
> fully conscious, and he remembers hearing the EMT crew
> talking about just how dead he was. In most cases
> that are that severe, you don't survive unless you're
> put on a respirator, and some people have survived PSP
> only because an alert rescuer put them on respirators
> when others might not have bothered to try.

I chemically paralyze patients all the time yet I would never mistake
them for being dead? (well, 'cept for the ones who actually are brain
dead, but that's another issue...) And yes, paralytics are not sedatives
in any way, shape or form so patients can be perfectly alert if not
*also* sedated. Isn't that a terrorizing thought? And ALL chemically
paralyzed patients *require* respiratory support. Yet the heart isn't
paralyzed so an emergency team shouldn't have missed that pulse?

I'm curious about this story or report you read. Do you have a citation?

"John Kane" > wrote in message
...
> On Jan 15, 5:14 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>> "Pete L" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > Can't find anything online...... We live at Cliftonville, just to
>> > the east of Margate, Kent. On our beach walks I have seen quite a few
>> > mussels. Does anybody know how to tell if they are ok to eat? There is
>> > a sewage outfall not too far away but I believe that it is treated
>> > now. The beach is relatively clean. Is it a case that if the mussels
>> > taste fine they really are?
>>
>> If I were you, I'd call this state agency before eating them:
>>
>> http://www.dep.ky.gov/
>>
>> They have wildlife biologists on staff who can give you more information
>> about the species, as well as the condition of the water they live in.
>> Mussels filter water constantly. You should be concerned about WHAT
>> they're
>> filtering from the water.
>>
>> They may also be a protected species, although I didn't read enough of
>> this
>> article to be su
>>
>> http://fw.ky.gov/newsrelease.asp?nid...vPath=C101C552
>
> Good advice but how likely are Kentukey biologists to be up to date
> with beaches in the south of England?
>


Hmmm. I wonder where I got "Kentucky" from? :-)

"Goomba38" > wrote in message
...
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
>> I've read some interesting case reports on paralytic
>> shellfish poisoning. In one case in Canada, a victim
>> was so paralyzed that the emergency medical team was
>> convinced he was dead, yet he was not only alive but
>> fully conscious, and he remembers hearing the EMT crew
>> talking about just how dead he was. In most cases
>> that are that severe, you don't survive unless you're
>> put on a respirator, and some people have survived PSP
>> only because an alert rescuer put them on respirators
>> when others might not have bothered to try.
>
> I chemically paralyze patients all the time yet I would never mistake them
> for being dead? (well, 'cept for the ones who actually are brain dead, but
> that's another issue...) And yes, paralytics are not sedatives in any way,
> shape or form so patients can be perfectly alert if not *also* sedated.
> Isn't that a terrorizing thought? And ALL chemically paralyzed patients
> *require* respiratory support. Yet the heart isn't paralyzed so an
> emergency team shouldn't have missed that pulse?
>
> I'm curious about this story or report you read. Do you have a citation?


This was all over the news at the time, at least here in the Northeast. I
remember that in my house, there was an immediate ban on eating clams &
oysters because my son was little and my wife said "If you feed that stuff
to him, I'll paralyze YOU in my own special way!"

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> Goomba38 wrote:
>>
>> I chemically paralyze patients all the time yet I would never mistake
>> them for being dead? (well, 'cept for the ones who actually are brain
>> dead, but that's another issue...) And yes, paralytics are not sedatives
>> in any way, shape or form so patients can be perfectly alert if not
>> *also* sedated. Isn't that a terrorizing thought? And ALL chemically
>> paralyzed patients *require* respiratory support. Yet the heart isn't
>> paralyzed so an emergency team shouldn't have missed that pulse?
>>
>> I'm curious about this story or report you read. Do you have a citation?
>
> I'm sure I have a copy of the original report,
> but it's in a box which although it's about 20
> feet from me now, it's behind and under a whole
> bunch of other stuff. Perhaps this summer I'll
> get to that layer, then again perhaps not. :-)
>
> If I recall correctly, the EMT crew did not see
> a response by the iris to light, and decided the
> guy was dead based on that.


I remember the news stories being pretty spooky, especially since they said
some people didn't understand that cooking would not destroy the toxins in
some cases.

Goomba38 wrote:
>
> I chemically paralyze patients all the time yet I would never mistake
> them for being dead? (well, 'cept for the ones who actually are brain
> dead, but that's another issue...) And yes, paralytics are not sedatives
> in any way, shape or form so patients can be perfectly alert if not
> *also* sedated. Isn't that a terrorizing thought? And ALL chemically
> paralyzed patients *require* respiratory support. Yet the heart isn't
> paralyzed so an emergency team shouldn't have missed that pulse?
>
> I'm curious about this story or report you read. Do you have a citation?

I'm sure I have a copy of the original report,
but it's in a box which although it's about 20
feet from me now, it's behind and under a whole
bunch of other stuff. Perhaps this summer I'll
get to that layer, then again perhaps not. :-)

If I recall correctly, the EMT crew did not see
a response by the iris to light, and decided the
guy was dead based on that.

Mark Thorson wrote:

> I'm sure I have a copy of the original report,
> but it's in a box which although it's about 20
> feet from me now, it's behind and under a whole
> bunch of other stuff. Perhaps this summer I'll
> get to that layer, then again perhaps not. :-)
>
> If I recall correctly, the EMT crew did not see
> a response by the iris to light, and decided the
> guy was dead based on that.

<clutching chest in disbelief> oh god. remind me to never go into
cardiac or respiratory arrest near *that* crew, eh?
LOL

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

>>> I'm curious about this story or report you read. Do you have a citation?
>> I'm sure I have a copy of the original report,
>> but it's in a box which although it's about 20
>> feet from me now, it's behind and under a whole
>> bunch of other stuff. Perhaps this summer I'll
>> get to that layer, then again perhaps not. :-)
>>
>> If I recall correctly, the EMT crew did not see
>> a response by the iris to light, and decided the
>> guy was dead based on that.
>
>
> I remember the news stories being pretty spooky, especially since they said
> some people didn't understand that cooking would not destroy the toxins in
> some cases.

I was watching Alton Brown last night and wasn't paying a whole lot of
attention but he discussed the legal requirement of tagged bags of
mussels so if illness was detected they could trace backwards...

The toxin issue is interesting, as of course there are diseases
(Guillain Barre for example) as well as other food toxin poisonings
(i.e.botulism) that manifest into nerve paralysis (causing respiratory
paralysis) but my alarm is wondering how the first responders decided
the guy was already dead on the scene with so little evidence of death
to go on? We have rules about this stuff such as "no one is dead until
they're warm and dead" LOL (which is important for those cold weather or
drowning victims) and pupillary response is hardly anything to go by.
Short of a few unpleasant obvious signs of death those folks aren't
always in the best place to determine that the guy was already a goner,
y'know?

"Goomba38" > wrote in message
. ..
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
>>>> I'm curious about this story or report you read. Do you have a
>>>> citation?
>>> I'm sure I have a copy of the original report,
>>> but it's in a box which although it's about 20
>>> feet from me now, it's behind and under a whole
>>> bunch of other stuff. Perhaps this summer I'll
>>> get to that layer, then again perhaps not. :-)
>>>
>>> If I recall correctly, the EMT crew did not see
>>> a response by the iris to light, and decided the
>>> guy was dead based on that.
>>
>>
>> I remember the news stories being pretty spooky, especially since they
>> said some people didn't understand that cooking would not destroy the
>> toxins in some cases.
>
> I was watching Alton Brown last night and wasn't paying a whole lot of
> attention but he discussed the legal requirement of tagged bags of mussels
> so if illness was detected they could trace backwards...
>
> The toxin issue is interesting, as of course there are diseases (Guillain
> Barre for example) as well as other food toxin poisonings (i.e.botulism)
> that manifest into nerve paralysis (causing respiratory paralysis) but my
> alarm is wondering how the first responders decided the guy was already
> dead on the scene with so little evidence of death to go on? We have rules
> about this stuff such as "no one is dead until they're warm and dead" LOL
> (which is important for those cold weather or drowning victims) and
> pupillary response is hardly anything to go by. Short of a few unpleasant
> obvious signs of death those folks aren't always in the best place to
> determine that the guy was already a goner, y'know?


If I recall correctly, the stories about the infamous Bon Vivant chowder
(botulism) said the victim was history before the amulance got there. That
was WAY back, though. 1960s? Maybe paramedics have more tricks up their
sleeves now.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

>
> If I recall correctly, the stories about the infamous Bon Vivant chowder
> (botulism) said the victim was history before the amulance got there. That
> was WAY back, though. 1960s? Maybe paramedics have more tricks up their
> sleeves now.

I recall being surprised at how "recent" CPR actually is? I mean,
mainstream use started in the early 70's I understand, which has been in
MY lifetime. Some things we just take for granted as always having been
so, but it wasn't so, eh?

We had a family come in with botulism (from improperly canned
vegetables) not long ago. How bad that canner (mom?) must have felt? A
little more guilt provoking than just runny tummy food poisoning <gulp>