I find very few recipes calling for it, particularly by the more
renown cooks. Yet you find zillions of people extolling the virtues
of brining and simple marinading. Seems that if injection was as
effective as the latter two techniques, you'd find a lot more people
doing it and praising it. Is this just a feel-good technique?

"Greg Esres" > wrote in message
...
>I find very few recipes calling for it, particularly by the more
> renown cooks. Yet you find zillions of people extolling the virtues
> of brining and simple marinading. Seems that if injection was as
> effective as the latter two techniques, you'd find a lot more people
> doing it and praising it. Is this just a feel-good technique?

We're talking turkey (or chicken) here, right?

I've only tried injecting a few times and did it within an hour of cooking,
so perhaps I'm not doing it correctly. It did give the meet the flavor of
whatever I was injecting, but didn't do anything for the texture of the
meat. I've been brining a lot however, and really love it. It makes an
incredibly moist, tasty bird.

Part of brining is having the liquid soak into the meat. When the meat is
cooked, more liquid is retained than would be without it.

Part of it is the same process that chefs talk about when they salt birds a
few days ahead if time. The salt draws out the moisture in the cells then
pulls back even more moisture. Brining shortcuts this from 2 or 3 days to
less than 1. I usually brine the bird when I get up in the morning and cook
it that evening.

Jon

Zeppo said...

> "Greg Esres" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I find very few recipes calling for it, particularly by the more
>> renown cooks. Yet you find zillions of people extolling the virtues
>> of brining and simple marinading. Seems that if injection was as
>> effective as the latter two techniques, you'd find a lot more people
>> doing it and praising it. Is this just a feel-good technique?
>
> We're talking turkey (or chicken) here, right?
>
> I've only tried injecting a few times and did it within an hour of
> cooking, so perhaps I'm not doing it correctly. It did give the meet the
> flavor of whatever I was injecting, but didn't do anything for the
> texture of the meat. I've been brining a lot however, and really love
> it. It makes an incredibly moist, tasty bird.
>
> Part of brining is having the liquid soak into the meat. When the meat
> is cooked, more liquid is retained than would be without it.
>
> Part of it is the same process that chefs talk about when they salt
> birds a few days ahead if time. The salt draws out the moisture in the
> cells then pulls back even more moisture. Brining shortcuts this from 2
> or 3 days to less than 1. I usually brine the bird when I get up in the
> morning and cook it that evening.
>
> Jon


I don't know brining so I won't comment.

Injection for birds, well, where you inject gets the benefit.

Actually, if you could Jaccard stab the hell out of a bird and then brine
it I wonder if that would make a delicious difference.

I Jaccard steaks and marinade them in the fridge and turn every couple
hours or when I think about it, for 24 hours.

How the bird is cooked may also make a world of flavor difference,
regarding brining. I dunno.

Andy

--
All Posts Blocked From: @yahoo|@gmail|@hotmail|@webtv|@aol

On Jan 16, 11:47 am, Greg Esres > wrote:
> I find very few recipes calling for it, particularly by the more
> renown cooks. Yet you find zillions of people extolling the virtues
> of brining and simple marinading. Seems that if injection was as
> effective as the latter two techniques, you'd find a lot more people
> doing it and praising it. Is this just a feel-good technique?

Injecting certainly works for Hormel - all their pork is injected.

N.

On Jan 16, 2:24 pm, Sqwertz > wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:56:14 -0800 (PST), Nancy2 wrote:
> > On Jan 16, 11:47 am, Greg Esres > wrote:
> >> I find very few recipes calling for it, particularly by the more
> >> renown cooks. Yet you find zillions of people extolling the virtues
> >> of brining and simple marinading. Seems that if injection was as
> >> effective as the latter two techniques, you'd find a lot more people
> >> doing it and praising it. Is this just a feel-good technique?
>
> > Injecting certainly works for Hormel - all their pork is injected.
>
> Those are tumbled in a vacuum, I believe. They might use both
> methods. Hams and deli meats are usually injected before
> cooking, but meat for raw sale is tumbled.
>
> -sw

It says right on the Hormel label that it has been injected.

N.

Nancy2 wrote:
> On Jan 16, 11:47 am, Greg Esres > wrote:
>> I find very few recipes calling for it, particularly by the more
>> renown cooks. Yet you find zillions of people extolling the virtues
>> of brining and simple marinading. Seems that if injection was as
>> effective as the latter two techniques, you'd find a lot more people
>> doing it and praising it. Is this just a feel-good technique?
>
> Injecting certainly works for Hormel - all their pork is injected.
>
> N.
Which is why I've been going out of my way to buy my unadulterated free
range, heirloom pork. What a HUGE difference in taste, juiciness and fat
content. This stuff is GOOD!

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:47:33 -0800 (PST), Greg Esres
> wrote:

>I find very few recipes calling for it, particularly by the more
>renown cooks. Yet you find zillions of people extolling the virtues
>of brining and simple marinading. Seems that if injection was as
>effective as the latter two techniques, you'd find a lot more people
>doing it and praising it. Is this just a feel-good technique?

Greg, I think it will depend on the conditions. I can say from
experience that chicken that was marinated 24 hours with salt, chili
powder, vinegar, and other odds and ends, then grilled was improved
significantly by injecting the chicken with the marinade before
grilling. More flavor throughout the chicken.

Since an injector is so cheap---I think I paid 2-3 bucks---it might be
worth a try.

Best -- Terry

Terry wrote:

> Greg, I think it will depend on the conditions. I can say from
> experience that chicken that was marinated 24 hours with salt, chili
> powder, vinegar, and other odds and ends, then grilled was improved
> significantly by injecting the chicken with the marinade before
> grilling. More flavor throughout the chicken.


I've had the opposite experience. I think you can over marinate chicken
if left in a liquid marinade as long as 24 hours. I'll do beef and pork
that long but think chicken is best no longer than 6 hours or so?

Greg Esres wrote:
> I find very few recipes calling for it, particularly by the more
> renown cooks. Yet you find zillions of people extolling the virtues
> of brining and simple marinading. Seems that if injection was as
> effective as the latter two techniques, you'd find a lot more people
> doing it and praising it. Is this just a feel-good technique?

Largely it is a method to compensate for poor quality meat. And it is
also a great way for the big box stores to enhance profits because they
get to sell water for the price of meat.

Nancy2 wrote:
> On Jan 16, 11:47 am, Greg Esres > wrote:
>> I find very few recipes calling for it, particularly by the more
>> renown cooks. Yet you find zillions of people extolling the virtues
>> of brining and simple marinading. Seems that if injection was as
>> effective as the latter two techniques, you'd find a lot more people
>> doing it and praising it. Is this just a feel-good technique?
>
> Injecting certainly works for Hormel - all their pork is injected.
>
> N.

I think there are multiple processes. The walmart pioneered embalming
process uses a bunch of fine needles to inject the meat with the
embalming fluid. The marinated pork products are processed in a vacuum
tumbling chamber.

On Jan 16, 4:24*pm, Goomba38 > wrote:
> Nancy2 wrote:
> > On Jan 16, 11:47 am, Greg Esres > wrote:
> >> I find very few recipes calling for it, particularly by the more
> >> renown cooks. *Yet you find zillions of people extolling the virtues
> >> of brining and simple marinading. *Seems that if injection was as
> >> effective as the latter two techniques, you'd find a lot more people
> >> doing it and praising it. *Is this just a feel-good technique?
>
> > Injecting certainly works for Hormel *- *all their pork is injected.
>
> > N.
>
> Which is why I've been going out of my way to buy my unadulterated free
> range, heirloom pork. What a HUGE difference in taste, juiciness and fat
> content. This stuff is GOOD!

Yup, we have one supermarket chain here (a small one) and one
independent corner grocery store (old style) where I can get
unadulterated pork - plus the usual meat lockers in the small towns,
of course. The main supermarket chain carries nothing but Hormel,
even the unpackaged meat in the cases.

N.

In article >,
Goomba38 > wrote:

> Terry wrote:
>
> > Greg, I think it will depend on the conditions. I can say from
> > experience that chicken that was marinated 24 hours with salt, chili
> > powder, vinegar, and other odds and ends, then grilled was improved
> > significantly by injecting the chicken with the marinade before
> > grilling. More flavor throughout the chicken.
>
>
> I've had the opposite experience. I think you can over marinate chicken
> if left in a liquid marinade as long as 24 hours. I'll do beef and pork
> that long but think chicken is best no longer than 6 hours or so?

Too much acid in the marinade with make the surface mushy. Don't ask me
how I know this.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Notes about our meals in Tuscany have been posted to
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com; 10-16-2007

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:20:59 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Goomba38 > wrote:
>
>> Terry wrote:
>>
>> > Greg, I think it will depend on the conditions. I can say from
>> > experience that chicken that was marinated 24 hours with salt, chili
>> > powder, vinegar, and other odds and ends, then grilled was improved
>> > significantly by injecting the chicken with the marinade before
>> > grilling. More flavor throughout the chicken.
>>
>>
>> I've had the opposite experience. I think you can over marinate chicken
>> if left in a liquid marinade as long as 24 hours. I'll do beef and pork
>> that long but think chicken is best no longer than 6 hours or so?
>
>Too much acid in the marinade with make the surface mushy. Don't ask me
>how I know this.

you must be marinating skinless chicken. for wings or legs, 24 hours
is fine. i've done whole chickens in a yogurt-based marinade for 48.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy wrote:

>> Too much acid in the marinade with make the surface mushy. Don't ask me
>> how I know this.
>
> you must be marinating skinless chicken. for wings or legs, 24 hours
> is fine. i've done whole chickens in a yogurt-based marinade for 48.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Yes, that was how I found out you can overdo the marinating. I think I
was doing skinless, boneless breasts...?
I can't recall the last time I marinated bone in pieces, and have never
done whole chickens before.

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:36:19 -0500, Goomba38 >
wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>
>>> Too much acid in the marinade with make the surface mushy. Don't ask me
>>> how I know this.
>>
>> you must be marinating skinless chicken. for wings or legs, 24 hours
>> is fine. i've done whole chickens in a yogurt-based marinade for 48.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>Yes, that was how I found out you can overdo the marinating. I think I
>was doing skinless, boneless breasts...?
>I can't recall the last time I marinated bone in pieces, and have never
>done whole chickens before.

skin is my favorite part of the chicken, but i'm a skinny fella and
could use the fat.

your pal,
blake

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
...
>
> skin is my favorite part of the chicken, but i'm a skinny fella and
> could use the fat.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Yeah, Blake -- why do you defy all odds?
Dee Dee

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> you must be marinating skinless chicken. for wings or legs, 24 hours
> is fine. i've done whole chickens in a yogurt-based marinade for 48.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Maybe that's the difference. Gotta be because, yessir, these were
boneless skinless chicken chests.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> >> you must be marinating skinless chicken. for wings or legs, 24 hours
> >> is fine. i've done whole chickens in a yogurt-based marinade for 48.
> > > could use the fat.
>
> your pal,
> blake

So tell me more about your yogurt soak for da boid.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>>>> you must be marinating skinless chicken. for wings or legs, 24
>>>> hours is fine. i've done whole chickens in a yogurt-based
>>>> marinade for 48. could use the fat.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> So tell me more about your yogurt soak for da boid.

Sorry Barb You always make me giggle

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:26:33 -0500, "Dee.Dee" >
wrote:

>
>"blake murphy" > wrote in message
.. .
>>
>> skin is my favorite part of the chicken, but i'm a skinny fella and
>> could use the fat.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>Yeah, Blake -- why do you defy all odds?
>Dee Dee
>

when i eat, i don't eat that much. waiters are constantly alarmed.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:04:15 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> >> you must be marinating skinless chicken. for wings or legs, 24 hours
>> >> is fine. i've done whole chickens in a yogurt-based marinade for 48.
>> > > could use the fat.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
>So tell me more about your yogurt soak for da boid.

well, i posted it a few months ago, but since i'm such a vain *******,
i'll post it again:

chicken tunduri style

one 3-4 lb chicken

1 cup plain, full fat yogurt, if you can find the damned stuff (i
suppose you could use low-fat, but i can't really think there'd be
much of a calorie difference)

2 tbls lemon juice

1 tsp salt

1/2 tsp dried chili pepper flakes

1 tsp ground coriander (i used whole seeds ground in mortar & pestle)

1/4 tsp anise (i use star anise ground in m & p)

2 tbls oil

*

mix together all but chicken and oil. marinate chicken in mixture for
24-48 hours in refrigerator, making sure some of the goop gets inside
the chicken. when ready to cook, drain and brush outside of chicken
with the oil.

i usually rotisserie the chicken, but she says to roast at 375 degrees
f. she also says chicken can be split or quartered, so time will
depend on that. if you charcoal it, watch it doesn't burn.

this turns out a very moist chicken with tasty skin. the wings are
especially delicious, so make sure you snag them for yourself.

(adapted from 'the complete book of oriental cooking,' by myra waldo,
so take up any spelling or authenticity complaints with her.)

*

it really is good. don't be alarmed if some of the chicken juice
leaches out and looks kinda grody.

(i posted another yogurt marinade in the thread where you requested
wing recipes.)

your pal,
mahatma sanders

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:09:24 GMT, blake murphy >
wrote:

>1/4 tsp anise (i use star anise ground in m & p)

I like that twist (and I happen to have it on hand)

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On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 10:18:20 -0800, sf wrote:

>On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:09:24 GMT, blake murphy >
>wrote:
>
>>1/4 tsp anise (i use star anise ground in m & p)
>
>I like that twist (and I happen to have it on hand)

it doesn't result in a strong anise flavor, but it definitely adds
something. same with the coriander.

your pal,
blake