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I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are
raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going there and let them know why. However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle. Lobster |
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Johnny Lobster wrote:
> I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are > raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four > times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised > theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going > there and let them know why. How much does the low US dollar have to do with the price increases? The low dollar could account for as muich as a 30% increase in their cost of buying the wine to stock. I was in Colorado 5 years ago and was surprised to find acohol so expensive. I was used to paying $21 for 26 oz. bottles of liquor in this part of Canada. but in the Denver area they were charging $26.95 which made it closer to $34 in my Canadian funds. Beer was about 50% more than year, and when translate to Canadian funds it was almost double..... and our liquor prices are relatively high. The last time I ate in one of the local winey restaurants I was shocked at the prices. It was bad enough that that their food was overpriced..... $14.95 for a bowl of vegetable soup, but the cheapest wine on the list was $36. There was a decent selection of wines, but all their own. It is not like they had a cellar full of vintage wines that they had to collect and store. They get it from their own winery's stock, and sell them in the gift shop for $10-20 per bottle. For some reason, restaurants seem to have the impression that they are entitled to couge their customers on wine in order to make a profit. When they intorduced BYO wine in this provinces the restaurants were allowed to charge corkage. Some of them charged a reasonable amount. One Toronto restaurant, known for having a good selection on wine, decided that they would charge $35. Their reasoning was that when people bring their own wine it deprived them of the opportunity to make a profit on wine sales. Needless to say, that upon reading that they felt entitled to make $35 off me for all the work involved in bringing a couple glasses and popping the cork I certainly felt no need to take my business there. > However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood > with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after > this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can > be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering > bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all > coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago > I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good > Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle. Wine prices in restaurants around here run from about $18 up, usually about a 100% markup. The last time I was in Paris we had an excellent bottle of Pinot Noir in a restaurant for $12, A lot of places had three course meny meals that included a 1/4 litre of decent wine for under $40. |
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Dave Smith wrote:
> Johnny Lobster wrote: > >> I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are >> raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four >> times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised >> theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going >> there and let them know why. > > How much does the low US dollar have to do with the price increases? The > low dollar could account for as muich as a 30% increase in their cost of > buying the wine to stock. More like an almost 50% increase. It takes $1.46 (today) to buy a Euro. I was in Colorado 5 years ago and was surprised > to find acohol so expensive. I was used to paying $21 for 26 oz. bottles > of liquor in this part of Canada. but in the Denver area they were > charging $26.95 which made it closer to $34 in my Canadian funds. Beer > was about 50% more than year, and when translate to Canadian funds it was > almost double..... and our liquor prices are relatively high. > > The last time I ate in one of the local winey restaurants I was shocked > at the prices. It was bad enough that that their food was overpriced..... > $14.95 for a bowl of vegetable soup, but the cheapest wine on the list > was $36. There was a decent selection of wines, but all their own. It is > not like they had a cellar full of vintage wines that they had to collect > and store. They get it from their own winery's stock, and sell them in > the gift shop for $10-20 per bottle. > > For some reason, restaurants seem to have the impression that they are > entitled to couge their customers on wine in order to make a profit. When > they intorduced BYO wine in this provinces the restaurants were allowed > to charge corkage. Some of them charged a reasonable amount. One Toronto > restaurant, known for having a good selection on wine, decided that they > would charge $35. Their reasoning was that when people bring their own > wine it deprived them of the opportunity to make a profit on wine sales. > Needless to say, that upon reading that they felt entitled to make $35 > off me for all the work involved in bringing a couple glasses and > popping the cork I certainly felt no need to take my business there. > >> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood >> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after >> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can >> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering >> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all >> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago >> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good >> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle. > > Wine prices in restaurants around here run from about $18 up, usually > about a 100% markup. The last time I was in Paris we had an excellent > bottle of Pinot Noir in a restaurant for $12, A lot of places had three > course meny meals that included a 1/4 litre of decent wine for under $40. > |
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![]() "Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message ... >I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are > raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four > times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised > theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going > there and let them know why. > > However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood > with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after > this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can > be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering > bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all > coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago > I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good > Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle. > > Lobster Interesting. I've not seen a Shiraz for $7 a bottle (at a wine shop). Someone told me about an Australian Koonunga Shiraz. Terrible. But the Australian Koonunga Cabernet-Shiraz was quite good. Penfolds. Same year as I recall. I don't eat at restaurants much, but I usually eat at restaurants where the cost for two of us for around will range with tip, tax, a glass of wine for each of us around $75+/-. The reason I order a glass instead of a bottle is that this price-range of a restaurant doesn't carry a wine that is worth the price they charge, or if they do, it is actually crappy wine. I love a glass of wine with a meal, so I usually get something. The last time we ate in Baltimore (in November), they served a wine that I liked. I wrote down the info, and went the next day to a nice wine shop and found it came in a big (150) bottle, and it was only $18.99. I was really happy about that. There is also a place in CT that serves wine, that buys wine from a certain place in that town; if you like it, you can go there and buy it. I think this is a nice idea for any restaurant. Dee Dee |
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![]() "Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message ... >I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are > raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four > times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised > theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going > there and let them know why. > > However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood > with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after > this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can > be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering > bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all > coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago > I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good > Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle. > > Lobster > > In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine into the restaurant and drink it. They can, and do, charge you a "corkage fee", usually $10, occasionally $15, and rarely $30+. Wine prices here in restaurants have skyrocked as well and this is one way to decrease the price a bit. You buy a bottle of "two buck Chuck" mask the label in some way and go to your favorite restaurant. I usually take in a reasonably priced good wine that the somnelier won't recognize. Cheers, Kent |
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Johnny Lobster wrote:
> I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are > raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four > times the retail cost of a bottle. Only a pinhead pays 3-4 times the package store price for booze. I never order wine at a restaurant... order 2nis... likker is quicker. So, what kind of lobster to they catch 5,000 feet above sea level? |
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![]() "Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message > > However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood > with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after > this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can > be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering > bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all > coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago > I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good > Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle. > > Lobster I hope the trend to cut prices continues. I like wine with dinner, but when you hit $30 as a minimum, I don't partake. Imported wines are going up with the dollar tanking against the Euro so that may be part of the reason. I was fortunate to find a restaurant in (Bella's in Smithfield RI) that has a super deal on Tuesday night. Dinner for two, appetizer, entree, dessert, and a bottle of wine for $35 a couple. The same meal other nights would be close to $85 to $100. |
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![]() "Sqwertz" > wrote in message ... > On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:39:33 -0800, Kent wrote: > >> In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine >> into >> the restaurant and drink it. > > Did they just make that law last night? I'd love to be able to > drink a good '98 Thunderbird with my Whopper and fries. > > -sw > > The California code requiring restaurants that serve wine to allow diners to bring their own wine has been there a long, long time. |
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message >> >> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood >> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after >> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can >> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering >> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all >> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago >> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good >> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle. >> >> Lobster > > Imported wines are going up with the dollar tanking against the Euro > The value of a U.S. dollar is higher than the Euro by about 46 cents, which might explain why European wine importers are jacking up the price. This goes back to the thread about if it costs more is it better? Not necessearily. The restaurants want to keep these "fancy" (mediocre) imported wines on the menu, but they're paying more and you're paying more. Jill |
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jmcquown wrote:
> > The value of a U.S. dollar is higher than the Euro by about 46 cents, which > might explain why European wine importers are jacking up the price. This > goes back to the thread about if it costs more is it better? Not > necessearily. The restaurants want to keep these "fancy" (mediocre) > imported wines on the menu, but they're paying more and you're paying more. > Sorry Jill. but you have it backwards. A Euro is currently worth $1.47 US. At this time last year it was $1.30 Two years ago it was $1.18.. Back in 2002 it was worth pnly 90 cents US. The US dollar has been nosing downward for some time. |
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![]() "jmcquown" > wrote in message ... > Edwin Pawlowski wrote: >> "Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message >>> >>> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood >>> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after >>> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can >>> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering >>> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all >>> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago >>> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good >>> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle. >>> >>> Lobster >> >> Imported wines are going up with the dollar tanking against the Euro >> > The value of a U.S. dollar is higher than the Euro by about 46 cents, > which > might explain why European wine importers are jacking up the price. This > goes back to the thread about if it costs more is it better? Not > necessearily. The restaurants want to keep these "fancy" (mediocre) > imported wines on the menu, but they're paying more and you're paying > more. > > Jill > And the declining dollar is definitely an valid excuse for charging more. Reading about the wine industry, I have found that there are many reasons for a wine to increase in price. Some of it isn't pretty. Dee Dee |
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![]() "Kent" > wrote in message . .. > > "Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message > ... >>I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are >> raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four >> times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised >> theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going >> there and let them know why. >> >> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood >> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after >> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can >> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering >> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all >> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago >> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good >> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle. >> >> Lobster >> >> > In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine into > the restaurant and drink it. They can, and do, charge you a "corkage fee", > usually $10, occasionally $15, and rarely $30+. Wine prices here in > restaurants have skyrocked as well and this is one way to decrease the > price a bit. You buy a bottle of "two buck Chuck" mask the label in some > way and go to your favorite restaurant. I usually take in a reasonably > priced good wine that the somnelier won't recognize. > > Cheers, > > Kent In the Philly area it seems most new restaurants opening up are BYOB's, which eliminate this issue. To fight back, many restaurants with a liquor license have started allowing diners to bring there own wine and charging a small corkage fee. This was pretty much unheard if a few years ago. I like the trend. The same Argentinean Malbec that cost me $41 at Taquet in Wayne last year, can be had from the state store for $17. I'd rather put the money saved towards better food anyway. Jon |
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On Jan 23, 10:40�pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message > > > However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood > > with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after > > this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can > > be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering > > bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all > > coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago > > I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good > > Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle. > > > Lobster > > I hope the trend to cut prices continues. I like wine with dinner, but when > you hit $30 as a minimum, I don't partake. > Imported wines are going up with the dollar tanking against the Euro so that > may be part of the reason. > > I was fortunate to find a restaurant in (Bella's in Smithfield RI) that has > a super deal on Tuesday night. �Dinner for two, appetizer, entree, dessert, > and a bottle of wine for $35 a couple. �The same meal other nights would be > close to $85 to $100. That's an awfully low price for a full dinner for two even without the wine.. hard to determine without knowing what foods. But regardless, I won't pay more for any bottle of wine than the price of two premium 2nis. I mean wine is just fermented grape juice, it even makes itself... booze requires lots of more costly ingredients, needs energy for distillation and a lot more labor. With wine mainly you are paying for the bottle but that's just pocket change. The restaurants don't even need to prepare wine, no ice, no mixers, no garnish, the restaurnt does nothing, just pour... and even a bowery wino gets a plain brown paper bag for presentation. |
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T > wrote:
> > The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have > tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.- I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license. |
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![]() "Sheldon" > ha scritto nel messaggio ... >T > wrote: >> >> The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have >> tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.- > > I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic > beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license. > Could be up your way, but I have seen reataurants all over that allowed the diner to bring wine because they did not (yet) have a license.-- http://www.judithgreenwood.com |
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Zeppo wrote:
> > In the Philly area it seems most new restaurants opening up are BYOB's, > which eliminate this issue. To fight back, many restaurants with a liquor > license have started allowing diners to bring there own wine and charging a > small corkage fee. This was pretty much unheard if a few years ago. The first time I ever encountered a VYO was in PA, somewhere near the Poconos <?>. They have had it in Montreal for years and they introduced it here in Ontario about a year ago, but I haven't seen any. > I like the trend. The same Argentinean Malbec that cost me $41 at Taquet in > Wayne last year, can be had from the state store for $17. I'd rather put the > money saved towards better food anyway. I don't begrudge them a profit on the sale of liquor and can certainly apprieciate that they have to arkup the wines to do so. Maybe they need 100% on low end wines in order to come out ahead, but I question the same markup on more expensive wines. A 100% markup on a $30 bottle jacks it up to $60 for the dinner. The way I see it is that they figure that maybe they figure that if you are willing to pay extra for a nicer bottle of wine they are entirled to gouge you even more. I would suggest that a certain flat rate markup on a bottle is more fair to the customers. Let's say $10. To make that $10 off you they have to have the wine on hand, bring you a couple glasses and remove the cork. I would expect them to expect a larger return if they had to store a lot of expensive wines, cellar them, experience some losses from vintage wines going bad, and the cost of cellaring and having money invested in the stock. However, most restaurants do not have those huge cellars of vintage wines. They have a limited selection and they are picking them up at the liquor stores as needed to maintain stock. I enjoy good wines, and keep a pretty good selection in my cellar. When I want a good wine I will cook a nice dinner at home, and a $20-30 of wine is going to cost me what I paid for it, not an extra $20-30 that they try to get from us in restaurants. |
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Sheldon wrote:
> > > I was fortunate to find a restaurant in (Bella's in Smithfield RI) that has > > a super deal on Tuesday night. �Dinner for two, appetizer, entree, dessert, > > and a bottle of wine for $35 a couple. �The same meal other nights would be > > close to $85 to $100. > > That's an awfully low price for a full dinner for two even without the > wine.. hard to determine without knowing what foods. That is indeed low. We have an excellent restaurant in town where we can have a great meal with appetizers, a modest wine and dessert for about $100. There are several nearby with comparable food that will cost at least double. > The restaurants don't even need to prepare wine, no ice, no mixers, no garnish, > the restaurnt does nothing, just pour... and even a bowery wino gets a > plain brown paper bag for presentation. That is my beef with restaurant wine prices. It is not like they are maintaining a cellar with thousands of bottles of vintage wines. They are buying the wine from the same liquor stores and wineries where I buy mine, bringing me a couple glasses and popping the cork for me, the service being provided by someone working for minium wage plus tips, so I am having a hard time understanding why they think there are entitles to soak me for an extra $30 or more to provide that low level of service. Worse yet, after they have socked it to me for a 200% markup I am supposed to leave 15% to the waiter? |
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Sheldon wrote:
> T > wrote: > > > > The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have > > tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.- > > I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic > beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license. In Ontario they have a special liquor licence for BYO, IIRC in addition to the regular liquor licence. In order to get the BYO they have to have a corking machine so you can take the leftover wine. You cannot take partial bottles away from regular licenced places. |
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Giusi wrote:
> "Sheldon" > ha scritto nel messaggio > ... > >T > wrote: > >> > >> The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have > >> tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.- > > > > I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic > > beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license. > > > > Could be up your way, but I have seen reataurants all over that allowed the > diner to bring wine because they did not (yet) have a license.-- > http://www.judithgreenwood.com There is one constant in the world of restaurants and liquor licencing, and that is that they are different in every jurisdiction. |
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On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:39:33 -0800, "Kent" > wrote:
>In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine into >the restaurant and drink it. They can, and do, charge you a "corkage fee", >usually $10, occasionally $15, and rarely $30+. Wine prices here in >restaurants have skyrocked as well and this is one way to decrease the price >a bit. You buy a bottle of "two buck Chuck" mask the label in some way and >go to your favorite restaurant. I usually take in a reasonably priced good >wine that the somnelier won't recognize. > >Cheers, > >Kent > > **** 'em, bring the two-buck chuck naked. wail with it! your pal, blake |
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![]() > Giusi wrote: > >> "Sheldon" > ha scritto nel messaggio >> ... >>> T > wrote: >>>> >>>> The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have >>>> tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.- >>> >>> I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic >>> beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license. >>> >> >> Could be up your way, but I have seen reataurants all over that >> allowed the diner to bring wine because they did not (yet) have a >> license.-- http://www.judithgreenwood.com There was a wondeful French resto in Perth and we were there on its first day of opening. They didn't have a licence and were happy to point out the nearest wine shop! It was superb but it closed down. Such a shame. |
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Sheldon wrote:
> T > wrote: >> The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have >> tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.- > > I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic > beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license. > Its done all of the time. The usual reasons are the cost of the license is more than a small restaurateur can justify or an allocation system is in place that limits licenses based on some formula. My state is one of the toughest with alcohol enforcement (only one of the two left where you can only buy booze at the government store) and it is totally legal and not uncommon to have BYOB. They can offer setups but they can't serve the drinks. |
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![]() "Sqwertz" > wrote in message news ![]() > On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:20:59 -0800, Kent wrote: > >> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message >> ... >>> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:39:33 -0800, Kent wrote: >>> >>>> In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine >>>> into >>>> the restaurant and drink it. >>> >>> Did they just make that law last night? I'd love to be able to >>> drink a good '98 Thunderbird with my Whopper and fries. >>> >> The California code requiring restaurants that serve wine to allow diners >> to >> bring their own wine has been there a long, long time. > > That doesn't sound right to me, and I've never heard of such a > "law". Why aren't there laws that say I can bring Dr Pepper into > a Cheesecake Factory (to cite a recent example)? Or my own beer > into a restaurant? > > I'm not a wine drinker so maybe this is common knowledge, but I > just find it to be an unusual "law" since all the ads I've seen > usually indicate that BYOB is or isn't allowed. > > -sw > > If a restaurant has a license to serve wine they must allow a diner to bring his/her own wine for consumption. The restaurant is allowed to charge a corkage fee for this. This has been California law probably since the immediate post depression years. I believe lobby by the wine industry was a strong impetus for this. I've never heard it being challenged. It's of interest that if you don't consume a whole bottle you can push the cork back in and drive home without breaking any law. This applies only to wine. Kent |
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On Jan 23, 7:58 pm, Sheldon > wrote:
> Johnny Lobster wrote: > > I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are > > raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four > > times the retail cost of a bottle. > > Only a pinhead pays 3-4 times the package store price for booze. If you buy wine with a meal in Denver you almost *always* pay that kind of markup. For instance, a $6 bottle of cheap Aussie Shiraz will be around $20 if your lucky. An $8 bottle of cheap Penfolds will be $25 at least. That is perfectly standard. > I never order wine at a restaurant... order 2nis... likker is quicker. If you can stand the taste, fine, but I like wine and a Martini will cost you at least $8, the price of a glass of "house" wine. If the object is to eat drunk, why not have a snort in the car for next to nothing? > So, what kind of lobster to they catch 5,000 feet above sea level? They haven't caught me so far. I'm wily. Lobster |
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On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:05:04 GMT, Sqwertz >
wrote: >On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:20:59 -0800, Kent wrote: > >> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message >> ... >>> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:39:33 -0800, Kent wrote: >>> >>>> In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine >>>> into >>>> the restaurant and drink it. >>> >>> Did they just make that law last night? I'd love to be able to >>> drink a good '98 Thunderbird with my Whopper and fries. >>> >> The California code requiring restaurants that serve wine to allow diners to >> bring their own wine has been there a long, long time. > >That doesn't sound right to me, and I've never heard of such a >"law". Why aren't there laws that say I can bring Dr Pepper into >a Cheesecake Factory (to cite a recent example)? Or my own beer >into a restaurant? > >I'm not a wine drinker so maybe this is common knowledge, but I >just find it to be an unusual "law" since all the ads I've seen >usually indicate that BYOB is or isn't allowed. > >-sw According to the website for California Alcohol and Beverage control http://www.abc.ca.gov/ http://www.abc.ca.gov/trade/BP_Enforcement_Book.pdf Quote CORKAGE FEES There is no overall prohibition that prevents a business, which is properly licensed, from allowing an adult customer to bring in his/her own alcoholic beverages and have those beverages served to guests. Restaurants who permit this activity generally charge a “corkage fee,” but this is not mandatory. The licensee remains responsible for any violations of law that might occur, such as furnishing alcohol to minors or to obviously intoxicated patrons. End Quote I was curious also koko --- http://www.kokoscorner.typepad.com updated 1/20 "There is no love more sincere than the love of food" George Bernard Shaw |
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Dave Smith wrote:
> Sheldon wrote: > > > > I was fortunate to find a restaurant in (Bella's in Smithfield RI) that has > > > a super deal on Tuesday night. �Dinner for two, appetizer, entree, dessert, > > > and a bottle of wine for $35 a couple. > > > > That's an awfully low price for a full dinner for two even without the > > wine.. hard to determine without knowing what foods. > > That is indeed low. We have an excellent restaurant in town where we can have a > great meal with appetizers, a modest wine and dessert for about $100. There are > several nearby with comparable food that will cost at least double. I can get a pretty decent dinner in almost the same neighborhood at a nice steak house for $35 a person; that's an appetizer, 16 oz porterhouse entry with spuds of choice and veggies side, and a very nice salad bar, and one very healthy 2ni (they charge $4.50). Dessert and coffee is a la carte. But for $35 a couple I'd be hard pressed to have a pasta dinner at the local dago dive pizzaria in town... there a caraffe of house wine (obviously box wine) is like $12, not really bad for a full liter of red. But a pasta dinner is just pasta with red sauce and choice of two meata balles, or two saw-seege, or a grilled skinless boneless chicky titty... with mozz broiled over adds like $3,50, nothing to write home about but I don't expect much for under $20 per... and they do give you more pasta than is humanly possible to consume... and their waitresses will give any Hooter's gals a good lickin'... that's the only reason it's always crowded, that and the giant TV sports bar in back. > > Â* The restaurants don't even need to prepare wine, no ice, no mixers, no garnish, > > the restaurnt does nothing, just pour... and even a bowery wino gets a > > plain brown paper bag for presentation. > > That is my beef with restaurant wine prices. Â*It is not like they are maintaining a > cellar with thousands of bottles of vintage wines. They are buying the wine from > the same liquor stores and wineries where I buy mine, bringing me a couple glasses > and popping the cork for me, the service being provided by someone working for > minium wage plus tips, so I am having a hard time understanding why they think > there are entitles to soak me for an extra $30 or more to provide that low level of > service. Worse yet, after they have socked it to me for a 200% markup I am supposed > to leave 15% to the waiter? I don't mind the tip for good service but I damn well mind paying big bucks for wine that gets ****ed out exactly the same as any box wine. No way I'm gonna pay the equivalent of $10 a glass for wine. If I did order a bottle of wine I'd probably drink it all myself and not even get a buzz. For $30 I can get too loaded to drive legally on bar cocktails. I'll typically order two 2nis with dinner for 'bout $10 and I don't feel ripped off. If my wine bill will be more than my dinner bill I would eat at home first. At home I can have as big a porterhose as I want, cooked perfectly as I like and all the Crystal Palace and Ruby Red grapefruit juice I can handle and never worry about the guy in the big hat arresting me on my way from kitchen to bed. Wine is all hype anyway, it's just fermented grape juice. SHELDON |
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Sheldon wrote:
> I can get a pretty decent dinner in almost the same neighborhood at a > nice steak house for $35 a person; that's an appetizer, 16 oz > porterhouse entry with spuds of choice and veggies side, and a very > nice salad bar, and one very healthy 2ni (they charge $4.50). Dessert > and coffee is a la carte. But for $35 a couple I'd be hard pressed to > have a pasta dinner at the local dago dive pizzaria in town... there a > caraffe of house wine (obviously box wine) is like $12, not really bad > for a full liter of red. But a pasta dinner is just pasta with red > sauce and choice of two meata balles, or two saw-seege, or a grilled > skinless boneless chicky titty... with mozz broiled over adds like > $3,50, nothing to write home about but I don't expect much for under > $20 per... and they do give you more pasta than is humanly possible to > consume... and their waitresses will give any Hooter's gals a good > lickin'... that's the only reason it's always crowded, that and the > giant TV sports bar in back. When I was working there was a restaurant in one of the towns where I used to work where you could get a dinner special...., soup or salad, entree and coffee for about $8.50. They also sold half protions for $6.96. The entree was usually breaded pork chops..... 2 good sized chops. Sometimes it was a rack of ribs. They came with a vegetable and you had a choice of mashed, fries or spaghetti. The spaghetti or pototaoes came oin seperate plate because there was not room on the entree plate. Portions were huge. It was quite edible, good home cooking, but no great cuisine. It's the kind of place I would go if I was in town and wanted a decent meal, but I would not go to that town just to eat there. Service was great. They had lots of waitresses there, almost always the same women. They must have treated them well there because there was hardly any staff turnover. They were closed Mondys and they closed for Januaray and February. The day they reopened in March there would be a line-up at the door. > > > Worse yet, after they have socked it to me for a 200% markup I am supposed > > to leave 15% to the waiter? > > I don't mind the tip for good service but I damn well mind paying big > bucks for wine that gets ****ed out exactly the same as any box wine. > No way I'm gonna pay the equivalent of $10 a glass for wine. If I did > order a bottle of wine I'd probably drink it all myself and not even > get a buzz. For $30 I can get too loaded to drive legally on bar > cocktails. I'll typically order two 2nis with dinner for 'bout $10 > and I don't feel ripped off. If my wine bill will be more than my > dinner bill I would eat at home first. At home I can have as big a > porterhose as I want, cooked perfectly as I like and all the Crystal > Palace and Ruby Red grapefruit juice I can handle and never worry > about the guy in the big hat arresting me on my way from kitchen to > bed. My brother and his wife used to go out for dinner every Friday night at a local place. Entrees were $10-20 + per person and they would have a few drinks. We went with them a couple times and it would cost at least $50-60 for a half assed meal. What we usually did on Friday nights was stop at the grocery store, get some fresh salmon, shrimp, or steaks, then to the bakery for a fresh loaf of Italian bread, and pick up a bottle of wine. For less than $20 we could have a much better dinner at home, including the wine. They were quick, easy dinners to cook, little to clean up, and we didn't have to worry about drinking and driving. > Wine is all hype anyway, it's just fermented grape juice. It is very tasty fermented grape juice. Please don't confuse good wine with the stuff in a box. |
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In article <d10b7905-badd-40eb-b9ea-ffa774c2bf81
@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, says... > T > wrote: > > > > The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have > > tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.- > > I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic > beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license. > > The way it works in RI is that to sell it you need a license. |
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On Jan 24, 7:01�pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> Sheldon wrote: > > I can get a pretty decent dinner in almost the same neighborhood at a > > nice steak house for $35 a person; that's an appetizer, �16 oz > > porterhouse entry with spuds of choice and veggies side, and a very > > nice salad bar, and one very healthy 2ni (they charge $4.50). �Dessert > > and coffee is a la carte. �But for $35 a couple I'd be hard pressed to > > have a pasta dinner at the local dago dive pizzaria in town... there a > > caraffe of house wine (obviously box wine) is like $12, not really bad > > for a full liter of red. �But a pasta dinner is just pasta with red > > sauce and choice of two meata balles, or two saw-seege, or a grilled > > skinless boneless chicky titty... �with mozz broiled over adds like > > $3,50, nothing to write home about but I don't expect much for under > > $20 per... and they do give you more pasta than is humanly possible to > > consume... and their waitresses will give any Hooter's gals a good > > lickin'... that's the only reason it's always crowded, that and the > > giant TV sports bar in back. > > When I was working there was a restaurant in one of the towns where I used to work where > you could get a dinner special...., soup or salad, entree and coffee for about $8.50. They > also sold half protions for $6.96. The entree was usually breaded pork chops..... 2 good > sized chops. Sometimes it was a rack of ribs. They came with a vegetable and you had a > choice of mashed, fries or spaghetti. The spaghetti or pototaoes came oin seperate plate > because there was not room on the entree plate. Portions were huge. �It was quite edible, > good home cooking, but no great cuisine. > > It's the kind of place I would go if I was in town and wanted a decent meal, but I would > not go to that town just to eat there. > > Service was great. They had lots of waitresses there, almost always the same women. They > must have treated them well there because there was hardly any staff turnover. They were > closed Mondys and they closed for Januaray and February. The day they reopened in March > there would be a line-up at the door. > > > > > > > > > > �Worse yet, after they have socked it to me for a 200% markup I am supposed > > > to leave 15% to the waiter? > > > I don't mind the tip for good service but I damn well mind paying big > > bucks for wine that gets ****ed out exactly the same as any box wine. > > No way I'm gonna pay the equivalent of $10 a glass for wine. �If I did > > order a bottle of wine I'd probably drink it all myself and not even > > get a buzz. �For $30 I can get too loaded to drive legally on bar > > cocktails. �I'll typically order two 2nis with dinner for 'bout $10 > > and I don't feel ripped off. �If my wine bill will be more than my > > dinner bill I would eat at home first. �At home I can have as big a > > porterhose as I want, cooked perfectly as I like and all the Crystal > > Palace and Ruby Red grapefruit juice I can handle and �never worry > > about the guy in the big hat arresting me on my way from kitchen to > > bed. > > My brother and his wife used to go out for dinner every Friday night at a local place. > Entrees were $10-20 + per person and they would have a few drinks. We went with them a > couple times and it would cost at least $50-60 for a half assed meal. �What we usually did > on Friday nights �was stop at the grocery store, get some fresh salmon, shrimp, or steaks, > then to the bakery for a fresh loaf of Italian bread, and pick up a bottle of wine. For > less than $20 we could have a much better dinner at home, including the wine. �They were > quick, easy dinners to cook, little to clean up, and we didn't have to worry about > drinking and driving. > > > Wine is all hype anyway, it's just fermented grape juice. > > It is very tasty fermented grape juice. Please don't confuse good wine with the stuff in a box I've had $10 a bottle wine, $100 a bottle wine, and even $200 a bottle wine. I can't tell where any one is so much better that it's worth more than any other. After the third glass it could be the box wine version and no one can tell the difference. I actually I enjoy some of the less popular styles of New York State wines... lately I've been drinking NY State Finger Lakes wines, I enjoy Ruby Port... $9.99. http://www.taylorreserve.com/index.htm |
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Sheldon wrote:
> > I've had $10 a bottle wine, $100 a bottle wine, and even $200 a bottle > wine. I can't tell where any one is so much better that it's worth > more than any other. After the third glass it could be the box wine > version and no one can tell the difference. I actually I enjoy some > of the less popular styles of New York State wines... lately I've been > drinking NY State Finger Lakes wines, I enjoy Ruby Port... $9.99. > > http://www.taylorreserve.com/index.htm I would expect $20 wine to be a lot better than $10 wine, When it goes past that point I expect them to be a lot better, but I don't think my palate is sophiticated enough to justify the extra cost. |
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![]() "Sheldon" > wrote in message But for $35 a couple I'd be hard pressed to have a pasta dinner at the local dago dive pizzaria in town... there a caraffe of house wine (obviously box wine) is like $12, not really bad for a full liter of red. This is Tuesday only. The choices are a bit limited, but there will still be six entrees to choose from. The prime rib is a smaller cut than you'd get on Saturday and maybe one less Lobster ravioli, but the quality is excellent. The wine is bought in quantity from Italy, probably fairly cheap, but still decent. Best deal around, IMO. |
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![]() "Sheldon" > wrote in message box I've had $10 a bottle wine, $100 a bottle wine, and even $200 a bottle wine. I can't tell where any one is so much better that it's worth more than any other. I've had $10 champagne and $100 champagne. The $100 bottle was definitely worth $5 more than the cheaper stuff. The laws of diminishing returns certainly works. Same with cheap versus good booze. I won't drink the cheap stuff, but as the price doubles, the benefits certainly don't. |
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On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:43:44 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote: >When >they intorduced BYO wine in this provinces the restaurants were allowed >to charge corkage. Some of them charged a reasonable amount. One Toronto >restaurant, known for having a good selection on wine, decided that they >would charge $35. Their reasoning was that when people bring their own >wine it deprived them of the opportunity to make a profit on wine sales. >Needless to say, that upon reading that they felt entitled to make $35 >off me for all the work involved in bringing a couple glasses and >popping the cork I certainly felt no need to take my business there. As far as I know, every restaurant with a liquor license where I live charges a corkage fee and how much depends on the restaurant. I was totally impressed with Montreal when I visited a few years ago because they had BYOW restaurants that provided literally everything including a wine cooler if you needed one - and didn't add a surcharge. It was surreal, but it was free. ![]() -- See return address to reply by email remove the smiley face first |
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On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:22:46 -0500, "Dee.Dee" >
wrote: >There is also a place in CT that serves wine, that buys wine from a certain >place in that town; if you like it, you can go there and buy it. I think >this is a nice idea for any restaurant. That's a fabulous idea but I bet there's a connection.... if it's not business, it's familial even if they aren't related on paper. -- See return address to reply by email remove the smiley face first |
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![]() Forget about what I posted before.... I just remembered an experience I had in Victoria BC a couple of years ago. I was in a wine shop looking at vast isles of wines I wasn't familiar with and saw a well dressed man going quickly down the isles putting a few of this and a couple of that in his cart. He certainly knew what he liked, so I asked him for some advice which he gave me (and I enjoyed the wines). It turned out he was a local restaurateur stocking up for the evening. I didn't ask him if that was the way he usually shopped or if he was between deliveries. -- See return address to reply by email remove the smiley face first |
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![]() <sf> wrote in message ... > On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:43:44 -0500, Dave Smith > > wrote: > >>When >>they intorduced BYO wine in this provinces the restaurants were allowed >>to charge corkage. Some of them charged a reasonable amount. One Toronto >>restaurant, known for having a good selection on wine, decided that they >>would charge $35. Their reasoning was that when people bring their own >>wine it deprived them of the opportunity to make a profit on wine sales. >>Needless to say, that upon reading that they felt entitled to make $35 >>off me for all the work involved in bringing a couple glasses and >>popping the cork I certainly felt no need to take my business there. > > As far as I know, every restaurant with a liquor license where I live > charges a corkage fee and how much depends on the restaurant. I was > totally impressed with Montreal when I visited a few years ago because > they had BYOW restaurants that provided literally everything including > a wine cooler if you needed one - and didn't add a surcharge. It was > surreal, but it was free. ![]() > I couldn't remember whether this was definitely the case, that it was free, but it was one of the many reasons we loved Montreal. A few times we would could catch a train to f-i-l's house, stay overnight, then go on up to Montreal for the same priced ticket (+$20 each -- a real bargain if you could stand the train-ride). Dee Dee |
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sf wrote:
> Forget about what I posted before.... I just remembered an experience > I had in Victoria BC a couple of years ago. I was in a wine shop > looking at vast isles of wines I wasn't familiar with and saw a well > dressed man going quickly down the isles putting a few of this and a > couple of that in his cart. He certainly knew what he liked, so I > asked him for some advice which he gave me (and I enjoyed the wines). > It turned out he was a local restaurateur stocking up for the evening. > I didn't ask him if that was the way he usually shopped or if he was > between deliveries. It is pretty much the same here. The beer store delivers beer, but wine and liquor are purchased at the government liquor stores. This goes back to what I suggested in another post about how restaurants would need a healthy return of vintage bottles that they had to cellar and in which they had a lot of money tied up for years. But restaurants don't do that here. They offer a limited number of red and whites, and when stocks run low they scoot over to the LCBO to pick up some more. They need to make some profit, but 100-200% narkup is a bit excessive, especially on the more expensive wines. |
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Dave Smith wrote:
> Sheldon wrote: > > > I've had $10 a bottle wine, $100 a bottle wine, and even $200 a bottle > > wine. �I can't tell where any one is so much better that it's worth > > more than any other. �After the third glass it could be the box wine > > version and no one can tell the difference. �I actually I enjoy some > > of the less popular styles of New York State wines... lately I've been > > drinking NY State Finger Lakes wines, I enjoy Ruby Port... $9.99. > > >http://www.taylorreserve.com/index.htm > > I would expect $20 wine to be a lot better than $10 wine, When it goes past that point I expect them > to be a lot better, but I don't think my palate is sophiticated enough to justify the extra cost. With $100 wine if you're not tasting $90 worth of better over $10 wine then it's not you, it's the wine. Wine is 90pct hyperbole, all that sniffing, swishing, and spitting is pure BS. At one point I spent more than ten yers making my own wines. For me wines are not better or worse, just different. Lately I've been working my way through the various dessert wines, particularly the Ports. The pricey Ports are imported from Portugal; I've tried a couple in the $50/.750 Liter range.. I've no intention of buying those at the $100-$300 range. I actually much prefer the domestics from NY's Finger Lakes region; $10/1.5Liter. As far as I'm concerned NYS wines are the world's finast, and certainly the best value... I'm especially partial to Lung Guyland wines. Wine snobs remind me of Han's Christian Anderson's "The Emperor's New Clothes". http://deoxy.org/emperors.htm And once folks educate themselves perhaps they'd not be so quick to bash my Crystal Palace. SHELDON |
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On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:36:31 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote: >Sheldon wrote: > >> T > wrote: >> > >> > The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have >> > tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.- >> >> I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic >> beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license. > >In Ontario they have a special liquor licence for BYO, IIRC in addition >to the regular liquor licence. In order to get the BYO they have to >have a corking machine so you can take the leftover wine. You cannot >take partial bottles away from regular licenced places. > at some beach places in maryland (mostly larger crab houses), they had b.y.o. because most of the serving staff was underage and thus couldn't serve alcohol. your pal, blake |
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