I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are
raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four
times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised
theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going
there and let them know why.

However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood
with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after
this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can
be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering
bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all
coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago
I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good
Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle.

Lobster

Johnny Lobster wrote:

> I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are
> raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four
> times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised
> theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going
> there and let them know why.

How much does the low US dollar have to do with the price increases? The
low dollar could account for as muich as a 30% increase in their cost of
buying the wine to stock. I was in Colorado 5 years ago and was surprised
to find acohol so expensive. I was used to paying $21 for 26 oz. bottles
of liquor in this part of Canada. but in the Denver area they were
charging $26.95 which made it closer to $34 in my Canadian funds. Beer
was about 50% more than year, and when translate to Canadian funds it was
almost double..... and our liquor prices are relatively high.

The last time I ate in one of the local winey restaurants I was shocked
at the prices. It was bad enough that that their food was overpriced.....
$14.95 for a bowl of vegetable soup, but the cheapest wine on the list
was $36. There was a decent selection of wines, but all their own. It is
not like they had a cellar full of vintage wines that they had to collect
and store. They get it from their own winery's stock, and sell them in
the gift shop for $10-20 per bottle.

For some reason, restaurants seem to have the impression that they are
entitled to couge their customers on wine in order to make a profit. When
they intorduced BYO wine in this provinces the restaurants were allowed
to charge corkage. Some of them charged a reasonable amount. One Toronto
restaurant, known for having a good selection on wine, decided that they
would charge $35. Their reasoning was that when people bring their own
wine it deprived them of the opportunity to make a profit on wine sales.
Needless to say, that upon reading that they felt entitled to make $35
off me for all the work involved in bringing a couple glasses and
popping the cork I certainly felt no need to take my business there.

> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood
> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after
> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can
> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering
> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all
> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago
> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good
> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle.

Wine prices in restaurants around here run from about $18 up, usually
about a 100% markup. The last time I was in Paris we had an excellent
bottle of Pinot Noir in a restaurant for $12, A lot of places had three
course meny meals that included a 1/4 litre of decent wine for under $40.

Dave Smith wrote:
> Johnny Lobster wrote:
>
>> I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are
>> raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four
>> times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised
>> theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going
>> there and let them know why.
>
> How much does the low US dollar have to do with the price increases? The
> low dollar could account for as muich as a 30% increase in their cost of
> buying the wine to stock.

More like an almost 50% increase. It takes $1.46 (today) to buy a Euro.

I was in Colorado 5 years ago and was surprised
> to find acohol so expensive. I was used to paying $21 for 26 oz. bottles
> of liquor in this part of Canada. but in the Denver area they were
> charging $26.95 which made it closer to $34 in my Canadian funds. Beer
> was about 50% more than year, and when translate to Canadian funds it was
> almost double..... and our liquor prices are relatively high.
>
> The last time I ate in one of the local winey restaurants I was shocked
> at the prices. It was bad enough that that their food was overpriced.....
> $14.95 for a bowl of vegetable soup, but the cheapest wine on the list
> was $36. There was a decent selection of wines, but all their own. It is
> not like they had a cellar full of vintage wines that they had to collect
> and store. They get it from their own winery's stock, and sell them in
> the gift shop for $10-20 per bottle.
>
> For some reason, restaurants seem to have the impression that they are
> entitled to couge their customers on wine in order to make a profit. When
> they intorduced BYO wine in this provinces the restaurants were allowed
> to charge corkage. Some of them charged a reasonable amount. One Toronto
> restaurant, known for having a good selection on wine, decided that they
> would charge $35. Their reasoning was that when people bring their own
> wine it deprived them of the opportunity to make a profit on wine sales.
> Needless to say, that upon reading that they felt entitled to make $35
> off me for all the work involved in bringing a couple glasses and
> popping the cork I certainly felt no need to take my business there.
>
>> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood
>> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after
>> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can
>> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering
>> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all
>> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago
>> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good
>> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle.
>
> Wine prices in restaurants around here run from about $18 up, usually
> about a 100% markup. The last time I was in Paris we had an excellent
> bottle of Pinot Noir in a restaurant for $12, A lot of places had three
> course meny meals that included a 1/4 litre of decent wine for under $40.
>

"Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message
...
>I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are
> raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four
> times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised
> theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going
> there and let them know why.
>
> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood
> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after
> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can
> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering
> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all
> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago
> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good
> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle.
>
> Lobster


Interesting. I've not seen a Shiraz for $7 a bottle (at a wine shop).
Someone told me about an Australian Koonunga Shiraz. Terrible. But the
Australian Koonunga Cabernet-Shiraz was quite good. Penfolds. Same year as
I recall.

I don't eat at restaurants much, but I usually eat at restaurants where the
cost for two of us for around will range with tip, tax, a glass of wine for
each of us around $75+/-. The reason I order a glass instead of a bottle
is that this price-range of a restaurant doesn't carry a wine that is worth
the price they charge, or if they do, it is actually crappy wine.

I love a glass of wine with a meal, so I usually get something. The last
time we ate in Baltimore (in November), they served a wine that I liked. I
wrote down the info, and went the next day to a nice wine shop and found it
came in a big (150) bottle, and it was only $18.99. I was really happy
about that.

There is also a place in CT that serves wine, that buys wine from a certain
place in that town; if you like it, you can go there and buy it. I think
this is a nice idea for any restaurant.

Dee Dee

"Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message
...
>I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are
> raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four
> times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised
> theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going
> there and let them know why.
>
> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood
> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after
> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can
> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering
> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all
> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago
> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good
> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle.
>
> Lobster
>
>
In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine into
the restaurant and drink it. They can, and do, charge you a "corkage fee",
usually $10, occasionally $15, and rarely $30+. Wine prices here in
restaurants have skyrocked as well and this is one way to decrease the price
a bit. You buy a bottle of "two buck Chuck" mask the label in some way and
go to your favorite restaurant. I usually take in a reasonably priced good
wine that the somnelier won't recognize.

Cheers,

Kent

Johnny Lobster wrote:
> I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are
> raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four
> times the retail cost of a bottle.

Only a pinhead pays 3-4 times the package store price for booze.

I never order wine at a restaurant... order 2nis... likker is quicker.

So, what kind of lobster to they catch 5,000 feet above sea level?

"Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message
>
> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood
> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after
> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can
> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering
> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all
> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago
> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good
> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle.
>
> Lobster

I hope the trend to cut prices continues. I like wine with dinner, but when
you hit $30 as a minimum, I don't partake.
Imported wines are going up with the dollar tanking against the Euro so that
may be part of the reason.

I was fortunate to find a restaurant in (Bella's in Smithfield RI) that has
a super deal on Tuesday night. Dinner for two, appetizer, entree, dessert,
and a bottle of wine for $35 a couple. The same meal other nights would be
close to $85 to $100.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:39:33 -0800, Kent wrote:
>
>> In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine
>> into
>> the restaurant and drink it.
>
> Did they just make that law last night? I'd love to be able to
> drink a good '98 Thunderbird with my Whopper and fries.
>
> -sw
>
>
The California code requiring restaurants that serve wine to allow diners to
bring their own wine has been there a long, long time.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message
>>
>> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood
>> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after
>> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can
>> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering
>> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all
>> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago
>> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good
>> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle.
>>
>> Lobster
>
> Imported wines are going up with the dollar tanking against the Euro
>
The value of a U.S. dollar is higher than the Euro by about 46 cents, which
might explain why European wine importers are jacking up the price. This
goes back to the thread about if it costs more is it better? Not
necessearily. The restaurants want to keep these "fancy" (mediocre)
imported wines on the menu, but they're paying more and you're paying more.

Jill

jmcquown wrote:

>
> The value of a U.S. dollar is higher than the Euro by about 46 cents, which
> might explain why European wine importers are jacking up the price. This
> goes back to the thread about if it costs more is it better? Not
> necessearily. The restaurants want to keep these "fancy" (mediocre)
> imported wines on the menu, but they're paying more and you're paying more.
>

Sorry Jill. but you have it backwards. A Euro is currently worth $1.47 US. At
this time last year it was $1.30 Two years ago it was $1.18.. Back in 2002 it
was worth pnly 90 cents US. The US dollar has been nosing downward for some
time.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood
>>> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after
>>> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can
>>> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering
>>> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all
>>> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago
>>> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good
>>> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle.
>>>
>>> Lobster
>>
>> Imported wines are going up with the dollar tanking against the Euro
>>
> The value of a U.S. dollar is higher than the Euro by about 46 cents,
> which
> might explain why European wine importers are jacking up the price. This
> goes back to the thread about if it costs more is it better? Not
> necessearily. The restaurants want to keep these "fancy" (mediocre)
> imported wines on the menu, but they're paying more and you're paying
> more.
>
> Jill
>

And the declining dollar is definitely an valid excuse for charging more.
Reading about the wine industry, I have found that there are many reasons
for a wine to increase in price. Some of it isn't pretty.

Dee Dee

"Kent" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are
>> raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four
>> times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised
>> theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going
>> there and let them know why.
>>
>> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood
>> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after
>> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can
>> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering
>> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all
>> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago
>> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good
>> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle.
>>
>> Lobster
>>
>>
> In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine into
> the restaurant and drink it. They can, and do, charge you a "corkage fee",
> usually $10, occasionally $15, and rarely $30+. Wine prices here in
> restaurants have skyrocked as well and this is one way to decrease the
> price a bit. You buy a bottle of "two buck Chuck" mask the label in some
> way and go to your favorite restaurant. I usually take in a reasonably
> priced good wine that the somnelier won't recognize.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kent

In the Philly area it seems most new restaurants opening up are BYOB's,
which eliminate this issue. To fight back, many restaurants with a liquor
license have started allowing diners to bring there own wine and charging a
small corkage fee. This was pretty much unheard if a few years ago.

I like the trend. The same Argentinean Malbec that cost me $41 at Taquet in
Wayne last year, can be had from the state store for $17. I'd rather put the
money saved towards better food anyway.

Jon

On Jan 23, 10:40�pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message
>
> > However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood
> > with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after
> > this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can
> > be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering
> > bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all
> > coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago
> > I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good
> > Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle.
>
> > Lobster
>
> I hope the trend to cut prices continues. I like wine with dinner, but when
> you hit $30 as a minimum, I don't partake.
> Imported wines are going up with the dollar tanking against the Euro so that
> may be part of the reason.
>
> I was fortunate to find a restaurant in (Bella's in Smithfield RI) that has
> a super deal on Tuesday night. �Dinner for two, appetizer, entree, dessert,
> and a bottle of wine for $35 a couple. �The same meal other nights would be
> close to $85 to $100.

That's an awfully low price for a full dinner for two even without the
wine.. hard to determine without knowing what foods. But regardless,
I won't pay more for any bottle of wine than the price of two premium
2nis. I mean wine is just fermented grape juice, it even makes
itself... booze requires lots of more costly ingredients, needs energy
for distillation and a lot more labor. With wine mainly you are
paying for the bottle but that's just pocket change. The restaurants
don't even need to prepare wine, no ice, no mixers, no garnish, the
restaurnt does nothing, just pour... and even a bowery wino gets a
plain brown paper bag for presentation.

In article >,
says...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > "Johnny Lobster" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are
> >> raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four
> >> times the retail cost of a bottle. When my local French bistro raised
> >> theor prices so that there were no bottles under $30, I stopped going
> >> there and let them know why.
> >>
> >> However, recently a Pasqiuni's pizzaria opened in the neighborhood
> >> with no bottle over $20 and many around the $11 mark. Shortly after
> >> this, Swing Thai lowered their wine prices so that decent bottles can
> >> be had for $14. Then another downtown restaurant started offering
> >> bottles for half price before 7:00. I hope these are not all
> >> coincidental, and that they are trying to compete. Just two weeks ago
> >> I ate in a wine bar-restaurant in San Diego, and they had good
> >> Australian Shriaz for $7 a bottle.
> >>
> >> Lobster
> >>
> >>
> > In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine into
> > the restaurant and drink it. They can, and do, charge you a "corkage fee",
> > usually $10, occasionally $15, and rarely $30+. Wine prices here in
> > restaurants have skyrocked as well and this is one way to decrease the
> > price a bit. You buy a bottle of "two buck Chuck" mask the label in some
> > way and go to your favorite restaurant. I usually take in a reasonably
> > priced good wine that the somnelier won't recognize.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Kent
>
> In the Philly area it seems most new restaurants opening up are BYOB's,
> which eliminate this issue. To fight back, many restaurants with a liquor
> license have started allowing diners to bring there own wine and charging a
> small corkage fee. This was pretty much unheard if a few years ago.
>
> I like the trend. The same Argentinean Malbec that cost me $41 at Taquet in
> Wayne last year, can be had from the state store for $17. I'd rather put the
> money saved towards better food anyway.
>
> Jon
>
>
>

The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have
tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.

T > wrote:
>
> The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have
> tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.-

I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic
beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license.

"Sheldon" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>T > wrote:
>>
>> The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have
>> tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.-
>
> I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic
> beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license.
>

Could be up your way, but I have seen reataurants all over that allowed the
diner to bring wine because they did not (yet) have a license.--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com

Zeppo wrote:

>
> In the Philly area it seems most new restaurants opening up are BYOB's,
> which eliminate this issue. To fight back, many restaurants with a liquor
> license have started allowing diners to bring there own wine and charging a
> small corkage fee. This was pretty much unheard if a few years ago.

The first time I ever encountered a VYO was in PA, somewhere near the Poconos
<?>. They have had it in Montreal for years and they introduced it here in
Ontario about a year ago, but I haven't seen any.







> I like the trend. The same Argentinean Malbec that cost me $41 at Taquet in
> Wayne last year, can be had from the state store for $17. I'd rather put the
> money saved towards better food anyway.

I don't begrudge them a profit on the sale of liquor and can certainly
apprieciate that they have to arkup the wines to do so. Maybe they need 100%
on low end wines in order to come out ahead, but I question the same markup on
more expensive wines. A 100% markup on a $30 bottle jacks it up to $60 for the
dinner. The way I see it is that they figure that maybe they figure that if you
are willing to pay extra for a nicer bottle of wine they are entirled to gouge
you even more. I would suggest that a certain flat rate markup on a bottle is
more fair to the customers. Let's say $10. To make that $10 off you they have
to have the wine on hand, bring you a couple glasses and remove the cork. I
would expect them to expect a larger return if they had to store a lot of
expensive wines, cellar them, experience some losses from vintage wines going
bad, and the cost of cellaring and having money invested in the stock. However,
most restaurants do not have those huge cellars of vintage wines. They have a
limited selection and they are picking them up at the liquor stores as needed to
maintain stock.

I enjoy good wines, and keep a pretty good selection in my cellar. When I want a
good wine I will cook a nice dinner at home, and a $20-30 of wine is going to
cost me what I paid for it, not an extra $20-30 that they try to get from us in
restaurants.

Sheldon wrote:

>
> > I was fortunate to find a restaurant in (Bella's in Smithfield RI) that has
> > a super deal on Tuesday night. �Dinner for two, appetizer, entree, dessert,
> > and a bottle of wine for $35 a couple. �The same meal other nights would be
> > close to $85 to $100.
>
> That's an awfully low price for a full dinner for two even without the
> wine.. hard to determine without knowing what foods.

That is indeed low. We have an excellent restaurant in town where we can have a
great meal with appetizers, a modest wine and dessert for about $100. There are
several nearby with comparable food that will cost at least double.




> The restaurants don't even need to prepare wine, no ice, no mixers, no garnish,
> the restaurnt does nothing, just pour... and even a bowery wino gets a
> plain brown paper bag for presentation.

That is my beef with restaurant wine prices. It is not like they are maintaining a
cellar with thousands of bottles of vintage wines. They are buying the wine from
the same liquor stores and wineries where I buy mine, bringing me a couple glasses
and popping the cork for me, the service being provided by someone working for
minium wage plus tips, so I am having a hard time understanding why they think
there are entitles to soak me for an extra $30 or more to provide that low level of
service. Worse yet, after they have socked it to me for a 200% markup I am supposed
to leave 15% to the waiter?

Sheldon wrote:

> T > wrote:
> >
> > The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have
> > tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.-
>
> I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic
> beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license.

In Ontario they have a special liquor licence for BYO, IIRC in addition
to the regular liquor licence. In order to get the BYO they have to
have a corking machine so you can take the leftover wine. You cannot
take partial bottles away from regular licenced places.

Giusi wrote:

> "Sheldon" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
> >T > wrote:
> >>
> >> The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have
> >> tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.-
> >
> > I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic
> > beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license.
> >
>
> Could be up your way, but I have seen reataurants all over that allowed the
> diner to bring wine because they did not (yet) have a license.--
> http://www.judithgreenwood.com

There is one constant in the world of restaurants and liquor licencing, and
that is that they are different in every jurisdiction.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:39:33 -0800, "Kent" > wrote:

>In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine into
>the restaurant and drink it. They can, and do, charge you a "corkage fee",
>usually $10, occasionally $15, and rarely $30+. Wine prices here in
>restaurants have skyrocked as well and this is one way to decrease the price
>a bit. You buy a bottle of "two buck Chuck" mask the label in some way and
>go to your favorite restaurant. I usually take in a reasonably priced good
>wine that the somnelier won't recognize.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Kent
>
>

**** 'em, bring the two-buck chuck naked. wail with it!

your pal,
blake

> Giusi wrote:
>
>> "Sheldon" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> ...
>>> T > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have
>>>> tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.-
>>>
>>> I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic
>>> beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license.
>>>
>>
>> Could be up your way, but I have seen reataurants all over that
>> allowed the diner to bring wine because they did not (yet) have a
>> license.-- http://www.judithgreenwood.com


There was a wondeful French resto in Perth and we were there on its first
day of opening. They didn't have a licence and were happy to point out the
nearest wine shop! It was superb but it closed down. Such a shame.

Sheldon wrote:
> T > wrote:
>> The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have
>> tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.-
>
> I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic
> beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license.
>
Its done all of the time. The usual reasons are the cost of the license
is more than a small restaurateur can justify or an allocation system is
in place that limits licenses based on some formula. My state is one of
the toughest with alcohol enforcement (only one of the two left where
you can only buy booze at the government store) and it is totally legal
and not uncommon to have BYOB. They can offer setups but they can't
serve the drinks.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
news
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:20:59 -0800, Kent wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:39:33 -0800, Kent wrote:
>>>
>>>> In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine
>>>> into
>>>> the restaurant and drink it.
>>>
>>> Did they just make that law last night? I'd love to be able to
>>> drink a good '98 Thunderbird with my Whopper and fries.
>>>
>> The California code requiring restaurants that serve wine to allow diners
>> to
>> bring their own wine has been there a long, long time.
>
> That doesn't sound right to me, and I've never heard of such a
> "law". Why aren't there laws that say I can bring Dr Pepper into
> a Cheesecake Factory (to cite a recent example)? Or my own beer
> into a restaurant?
>
> I'm not a wine drinker so maybe this is common knowledge, but I
> just find it to be an unusual "law" since all the ads I've seen
> usually indicate that BYOB is or isn't allowed.
>
> -sw
>
>
If a restaurant has a license to serve wine they must allow a diner to bring
his/her own wine for consumption. The restaurant is allowed to charge a
corkage fee for this. This has been California law probably since the
immediate post depression years. I believe lobby by the wine industry was a
strong impetus for this. I've never heard it being challenged. It's of
interest that if you don't consume a whole bottle you can push the cork back
in and drive home without breaking any law. This applies only to wine.

Kent

On Jan 23, 7:58 pm, Sheldon > wrote:
> Johnny Lobster wrote:
> > I have noticed that many restaurants near my home in Denver are
> > raising their wine prices. They are already charging three to four
> > times the retail cost of a bottle.
>
> Only a pinhead pays 3-4 times the package store price for booze.

If you buy wine with a meal in Denver you almost *always* pay that
kind of markup. For instance, a $6 bottle of cheap Aussie Shiraz will
be around $20 if your lucky. An $8 bottle of cheap Penfolds will be
$25 at least. That is perfectly standard.

> I never order wine at a restaurant... order 2nis... likker is quicker.

If you can stand the taste, fine, but I like wine and a Martini will
cost you at least $8, the price of a glass of "house" wine. If the
object is to eat drunk, why not have a snort in the car for next to
nothing?

> So, what kind of lobster to they catch 5,000 feet above sea level?

They haven't caught me so far. I'm wily.

Lobster

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:05:04 GMT, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:20:59 -0800, Kent wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:39:33 -0800, Kent wrote:
>>>
>>>> In California a restaurant has to allow you to bring a bottle of wine
>>>> into
>>>> the restaurant and drink it.
>>>
>>> Did they just make that law last night? I'd love to be able to
>>> drink a good '98 Thunderbird with my Whopper and fries.
>>>
>> The California code requiring restaurants that serve wine to allow diners to
>> bring their own wine has been there a long, long time.
>
>That doesn't sound right to me, and I've never heard of such a
>"law". Why aren't there laws that say I can bring Dr Pepper into
>a Cheesecake Factory (to cite a recent example)? Or my own beer
>into a restaurant?
>
>I'm not a wine drinker so maybe this is common knowledge, but I
>just find it to be an unusual "law" since all the ads I've seen
>usually indicate that BYOB is or isn't allowed.
>
>-sw

According to the website for California Alcohol and Beverage control
http://www.abc.ca.gov/

http://www.abc.ca.gov/trade/BP_Enforcement_Book.pdf

Quote
CORKAGE FEES
There is no overall prohibition that prevents a business, which is
properly licensed, from allowing an adult customer to
bring in his/her own alcoholic beverages and have those beverages
served to guests. Restaurants who permit this
activity generally charge a “corkage fee,” but this is not mandatory.
The licensee remains responsible for any violations of
law that might occur, such as furnishing alcohol to minors or to
obviously intoxicated patrons.
End Quote

I was curious also

koko
---
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updated 1/20

"There is no love more sincere than the love of food"
George Bernard Shaw

Dave Smith wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
>
> > > I was fortunate to find a restaurant in (Bella's in Smithfield RI) that has
> > > a super deal on Tuesday night. �Dinner for two, appetizer, entree, dessert,
> > > and a bottle of wine for $35 a couple.
>
>
> > That's an awfully low price for a full dinner for two even without the
> > wine.. hard to determine without knowing what foods.
>
> That is indeed low. We have an excellent restaurant in town where we can have a
> great meal with appetizers, a modest wine and dessert for about $100. There are
> several nearby with comparable food that will cost at least double.


I can get a pretty decent dinner in almost the same neighborhood at a
nice steak house for $35 a person; that's an appetizer, 16 oz
porterhouse entry with spuds of choice and veggies side, and a very
nice salad bar, and one very healthy 2ni (they charge $4.50). Dessert
and coffee is a la carte. But for $35 a couple I'd be hard pressed to
have a pasta dinner at the local dago dive pizzaria in town... there a
caraffe of house wine (obviously box wine) is like $12, not really bad
for a full liter of red. But a pasta dinner is just pasta with red
sauce and choice of two meata balles, or two saw-seege, or a grilled
skinless boneless chicky titty... with mozz broiled over adds like
$3,50, nothing to write home about but I don't expect much for under
$20 per... and they do give you more pasta than is humanly possible to
consume... and their waitresses will give any Hooter's gals a good
lickin'... that's the only reason it's always crowded, that and the
giant TV sports bar in back.


> > Â* The restaurants don't even need to prepare wine, no ice, no mixers, no garnish,
> > the restaurnt does nothing, just pour... and even a bowery wino gets a
> > plain brown paper bag for presentation.
>
> That is my beef with restaurant wine prices. Â*It is not like they are maintaining a
> cellar with thousands of bottles of vintage wines. They are buying the wine from
> the same liquor stores and wineries where I buy mine, bringing me a couple glasses
> and popping the cork for me, the service being provided by someone working for
> minium wage plus tips, so I am having a hard time understanding why they think
> there are entitles to soak me for an extra $30 or more to provide that low level of
> service. Worse yet, after they have socked it to me for a 200% markup I am supposed
> to leave 15% to the waiter?

I don't mind the tip for good service but I damn well mind paying big
bucks for wine that gets ****ed out exactly the same as any box wine.
No way I'm gonna pay the equivalent of $10 a glass for wine. If I did
order a bottle of wine I'd probably drink it all myself and not even
get a buzz. For $30 I can get too loaded to drive legally on bar
cocktails. I'll typically order two 2nis with dinner for 'bout $10
and I don't feel ripped off. If my wine bill will be more than my
dinner bill I would eat at home first. At home I can have as big a
porterhose as I want, cooked perfectly as I like and all the Crystal
Palace and Ruby Red grapefruit juice I can handle and never worry
about the guy in the big hat arresting me on my way from kitchen to
bed.

Wine is all hype anyway, it's just fermented grape juice.


SHELDON

Sheldon wrote:

> I can get a pretty decent dinner in almost the same neighborhood at a
> nice steak house for $35 a person; that's an appetizer, 16 oz
> porterhouse entry with spuds of choice and veggies side, and a very
> nice salad bar, and one very healthy 2ni (they charge $4.50). Dessert
> and coffee is a la carte. But for $35 a couple I'd be hard pressed to
> have a pasta dinner at the local dago dive pizzaria in town... there a
> caraffe of house wine (obviously box wine) is like $12, not really bad
> for a full liter of red. But a pasta dinner is just pasta with red
> sauce and choice of two meata balles, or two saw-seege, or a grilled
> skinless boneless chicky titty... with mozz broiled over adds like
> $3,50, nothing to write home about but I don't expect much for under
> $20 per... and they do give you more pasta than is humanly possible to
> consume... and their waitresses will give any Hooter's gals a good
> lickin'... that's the only reason it's always crowded, that and the
> giant TV sports bar in back.

When I was working there was a restaurant in one of the towns where I used to work where
you could get a dinner special...., soup or salad, entree and coffee for about $8.50. They
also sold half protions for $6.96. The entree was usually breaded pork chops..... 2 good
sized chops. Sometimes it was a rack of ribs. They came with a vegetable and you had a
choice of mashed, fries or spaghetti. The spaghetti or pototaoes came oin seperate plate
because there was not room on the entree plate. Portions were huge. It was quite edible,
good home cooking, but no great cuisine.

It's the kind of place I would go if I was in town and wanted a decent meal, but I would
not go to that town just to eat there.

Service was great. They had lots of waitresses there, almost always the same women. They
must have treated them well there because there was hardly any staff turnover. They were
closed Mondys and they closed for Januaray and February. The day they reopened in March
there would be a line-up at the door.

>
> > Worse yet, after they have socked it to me for a 200% markup I am supposed
> > to leave 15% to the waiter?
>
> I don't mind the tip for good service but I damn well mind paying big
> bucks for wine that gets ****ed out exactly the same as any box wine.
> No way I'm gonna pay the equivalent of $10 a glass for wine. If I did
> order a bottle of wine I'd probably drink it all myself and not even
> get a buzz. For $30 I can get too loaded to drive legally on bar
> cocktails. I'll typically order two 2nis with dinner for 'bout $10
> and I don't feel ripped off. If my wine bill will be more than my
> dinner bill I would eat at home first. At home I can have as big a
> porterhose as I want, cooked perfectly as I like and all the Crystal
> Palace and Ruby Red grapefruit juice I can handle and never worry
> about the guy in the big hat arresting me on my way from kitchen to
> bed.

My brother and his wife used to go out for dinner every Friday night at a local place.
Entrees were $10-20 + per person and they would have a few drinks. We went with them a
couple times and it would cost at least $50-60 for a half assed meal. What we usually did
on Friday nights was stop at the grocery store, get some fresh salmon, shrimp, or steaks,
then to the bakery for a fresh loaf of Italian bread, and pick up a bottle of wine. For
less than $20 we could have a much better dinner at home, including the wine. They were
quick, easy dinners to cook, little to clean up, and we didn't have to worry about
drinking and driving.

> Wine is all hype anyway, it's just fermented grape juice.

It is very tasty fermented grape juice. Please don't confuse good wine with the stuff in a
box.

In article <d10b7905-badd-40eb-b9ea-ffa774c2bf81
@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, says...
> T > wrote:
> >
> > The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have
> > tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.-
>
> I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic
> beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license.
>
>

The way it works in RI is that to sell it you need a license.

On Jan 24, 7:01�pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > I can get a pretty decent dinner in almost the same neighborhood at a
> > nice steak house for $35 a person; that's an appetizer, �16 oz
> > porterhouse entry with spuds of choice and veggies side, and a very
> > nice salad bar, and one very healthy 2ni (they charge $4.50). �Dessert
> > and coffee is a la carte. �But for $35 a couple I'd be hard pressed to
> > have a pasta dinner at the local dago dive pizzaria in town... there a
> > caraffe of house wine (obviously box wine) is like $12, not really bad
> > for a full liter of red. �But a pasta dinner is just pasta with red
> > sauce and choice of two meata balles, or two saw-seege, or a grilled
> > skinless boneless chicky titty... �with mozz broiled over adds like
> > $3,50, nothing to write home about but I don't expect much for under
> > $20 per... and they do give you more pasta than is humanly possible to
> > consume... and their waitresses will give any Hooter's gals a good
> > lickin'... that's the only reason it's always crowded, that and the
> > giant TV sports bar in back.
>
> When I was working there was a restaurant in one of the towns where I used to work where
> you could get a dinner special...., soup or salad, entree and coffee for about $8.50. They
> also sold half protions for $6.96. The entree was usually breaded pork chops..... 2 good
> sized chops. Sometimes it was a rack of ribs. They came with a vegetable and you had a
> choice of mashed, fries or spaghetti. The spaghetti or pototaoes came oin seperate plate
> because there was not room on the entree plate. Portions were huge. �It was quite edible,
> good home cooking, but no great cuisine.
>
> It's the kind of place I would go if I was in town and wanted a decent meal, but I would
> not go to that town just to eat there.
>
> Service was great. They had lots of waitresses there, almost always the same women. They
> must have treated them well there because there was hardly any staff turnover. They were
> closed Mondys and they closed for Januaray and February. The day they reopened in March
> there would be a line-up at the door.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > �Worse yet, after they have socked it to me for a 200% markup I am supposed
> > > to leave 15% to the waiter?
>
> > I don't mind the tip for good service but I damn well mind paying big
> > bucks for wine that gets ****ed out exactly the same as any box wine.
> > No way I'm gonna pay the equivalent of $10 a glass for wine. �If I did
> > order a bottle of wine I'd probably drink it all myself and not even
> > get a buzz. �For $30 I can get too loaded to drive legally on bar
> > cocktails. �I'll typically order two 2nis with dinner for 'bout $10
> > and I don't feel ripped off. �If my wine bill will be more than my
> > dinner bill I would eat at home first. �At home I can have as big a
> > porterhose as I want, cooked perfectly as I like and all the Crystal
> > Palace and Ruby Red grapefruit juice I can handle and �never worry
> > about the guy in the big hat arresting me on my way from kitchen to
> > bed.
>
> My brother and his wife used to go out for dinner every Friday night at a local place.
> Entrees were $10-20 + per person and they would have a few drinks. We went with them a
> couple times and it would cost at least $50-60 for a half assed meal. �What we usually did
> on Friday nights �was stop at the grocery store, get some fresh salmon, shrimp, or steaks,
> then to the bakery for a fresh loaf of Italian bread, and pick up a bottle of wine. For
> less than $20 we could have a much better dinner at home, including the wine. �They were
> quick, easy dinners to cook, little to clean up, and we didn't have to worry about
> drinking and driving.
>
> > Wine is all hype anyway, it's just fermented grape juice.
>
> It is very tasty fermented grape juice. Please don't confuse good wine with the stuff in a box

I've had $10 a bottle wine, $100 a bottle wine, and even $200 a bottle
wine. I can't tell where any one is so much better that it's worth
more than any other. After the third glass it could be the box wine
version and no one can tell the difference. I actually I enjoy some
of the less popular styles of New York State wines... lately I've been
drinking NY State Finger Lakes wines, I enjoy Ruby Port... $9.99.

http://www.taylorreserve.com/index.htm

Sheldon wrote:

>
> I've had $10 a bottle wine, $100 a bottle wine, and even $200 a bottle
> wine. I can't tell where any one is so much better that it's worth
> more than any other. After the third glass it could be the box wine
> version and no one can tell the difference. I actually I enjoy some
> of the less popular styles of New York State wines... lately I've been
> drinking NY State Finger Lakes wines, I enjoy Ruby Port... $9.99.
>
> http://www.taylorreserve.com/index.htm

I would expect $20 wine to be a lot better than $10 wine, When it goes past that point I expect them
to be a lot better, but I don't think my palate is sophiticated enough to justify the extra cost.

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
But for $35 a couple I'd be hard pressed to
have a pasta dinner at the local dago dive pizzaria in town... there a
caraffe of house wine (obviously box wine) is like $12, not really bad
for a full liter of red.


This is Tuesday only. The choices are a bit limited, but there will still
be six entrees to choose from. The prime rib is a smaller cut than you'd
get on Saturday and maybe one less Lobster ravioli, but the quality is
excellent. The wine is bought in quantity from Italy, probably fairly
cheap, but still decent. Best deal around, IMO.

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
box

I've had $10 a bottle wine, $100 a bottle wine, and even $200 a bottle
wine. I can't tell where any one is so much better that it's worth
more than any other.

I've had $10 champagne and $100 champagne. The $100 bottle was definitely
worth $5 more than the cheaper stuff.

The laws of diminishing returns certainly works. Same with cheap versus
good booze. I won't drink the cheap stuff, but as the price doubles, the
benefits certainly don't.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:43:44 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>When
>they intorduced BYO wine in this provinces the restaurants were allowed
>to charge corkage. Some of them charged a reasonable amount. One Toronto
>restaurant, known for having a good selection on wine, decided that they
>would charge $35. Their reasoning was that when people bring their own
>wine it deprived them of the opportunity to make a profit on wine sales.
>Needless to say, that upon reading that they felt entitled to make $35
>off me for all the work involved in bringing a couple glasses and
>popping the cork I certainly felt no need to take my business there.

As far as I know, every restaurant with a liquor license where I live
charges a corkage fee and how much depends on the restaurant. I was
totally impressed with Montreal when I visited a few years ago because
they had BYOW restaurants that provided literally everything including
a wine cooler if you needed one - and didn't add a surcharge. It was
surreal, but it was free.

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On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:22:46 -0500, "Dee.Dee" >
wrote:

>There is also a place in CT that serves wine, that buys wine from a certain
>place in that town; if you like it, you can go there and buy it. I think
>this is a nice idea for any restaurant.

That's a fabulous idea but I bet there's a connection.... if it's not
business, it's familial even if they aren't related on paper.

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Forget about what I posted before.... I just remembered an experience
I had in Victoria BC a couple of years ago. I was in a wine shop
looking at vast isles of wines I wasn't familiar with and saw a well
dressed man going quickly down the isles putting a few of this and a
couple of that in his cart. He certainly knew what he liked, so I
asked him for some advice which he gave me (and I enjoyed the wines).
It turned out he was a local restaurateur stocking up for the evening.
I didn't ask him if that was the way he usually shopped or if he was
between deliveries.

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<sf> wrote in message ...
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:43:44 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>>When
>>they intorduced BYO wine in this provinces the restaurants were allowed
>>to charge corkage. Some of them charged a reasonable amount. One Toronto
>>restaurant, known for having a good selection on wine, decided that they
>>would charge $35. Their reasoning was that when people bring their own
>>wine it deprived them of the opportunity to make a profit on wine sales.
>>Needless to say, that upon reading that they felt entitled to make $35
>>off me for all the work involved in bringing a couple glasses and
>>popping the cork I certainly felt no need to take my business there.
>
> As far as I know, every restaurant with a liquor license where I live
> charges a corkage fee and how much depends on the restaurant. I was
> totally impressed with Montreal when I visited a few years ago because
> they had BYOW restaurants that provided literally everything including
> a wine cooler if you needed one - and didn't add a surcharge. It was
> surreal, but it was free.
>

I couldn't remember whether this was definitely the case, that it was free,
but it was one of the many reasons we loved Montreal.

A few times we would could catch a train to f-i-l's house, stay overnight,
then go on up to Montreal for the same priced ticket (+$20 each -- a real
bargain if you could stand the train-ride).
Dee Dee

sf wrote:

> Forget about what I posted before.... I just remembered an experience
> I had in Victoria BC a couple of years ago. I was in a wine shop
> looking at vast isles of wines I wasn't familiar with and saw a well
> dressed man going quickly down the isles putting a few of this and a
> couple of that in his cart. He certainly knew what he liked, so I
> asked him for some advice which he gave me (and I enjoyed the wines).
> It turned out he was a local restaurateur stocking up for the evening.
> I didn't ask him if that was the way he usually shopped or if he was
> between deliveries.

It is pretty much the same here. The beer store delivers beer, but wine
and liquor are purchased at the government liquor stores. This goes back
to what I suggested in another post about how restaurants would need a
healthy return of vintage bottles that they had to cellar and in which
they had a lot of money tied up for years. But restaurants don't do that
here. They offer a limited number of red and whites, and when stocks run
low they scoot over to the LCBO to pick up some more. They need to make
some profit, but 100-200% narkup is a bit excessive, especially on the
more expensive wines.

Dave Smith wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
>
> > I've had $10 a bottle wine, $100 a bottle wine, and even $200 a bottle
> > wine. �I can't tell where any one is so much better that it's worth
> > more than any other. �After the third glass it could be the box wine
> > version and no one can tell the difference. �I actually I enjoy some
> > of the less popular styles of New York State wines... lately I've been
> > drinking NY State Finger Lakes wines, I enjoy Ruby Port... $9.99.
>
> >http://www.taylorreserve.com/index.htm
>
> I would expect $20 wine to be a lot better than $10 wine, When it goes past that point I expect them
> to be a lot better, but I don't think my palate is sophiticated enough to justify the extra cost.

With $100 wine if you're not tasting $90 worth of better over $10 wine
then it's not you, it's the wine. Wine is 90pct hyperbole, all that
sniffing, swishing, and spitting is pure BS.

At one point I spent more than ten yers making my own wines. For me
wines are not better or worse, just different. Lately I've been
working my way through the various dessert wines, particularly the
Ports. The pricey Ports are imported from Portugal; I've tried a
couple in the $50/.750 Liter range.. I've no intention of buying those
at the $100-$300 range. I actually much prefer the domestics from
NY's Finger Lakes region; $10/1.5Liter. As far as I'm concerned NYS
wines are the world's finast, and certainly the best value... I'm
especially partial to Lung Guyland wines.

Wine snobs remind me of Han's Christian Anderson's "The Emperor's New
Clothes". http://deoxy.org/emperors.htm

And once folks educate themselves perhaps they'd not be so quick to
bash my Crystal Palace.

SHELDON

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:36:31 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Sheldon wrote:
>
>> T > wrote:
>> >
>> > The reason you see more BYOB's open up is because communities have
>> > tightened up the liquor licenses in the past few years.-
>>
>> I don't think so. I doubt the restaurant can permit any alcoholic
>> beverages consumed on the premises unless they have the license.
>
>In Ontario they have a special liquor licence for BYO, IIRC in addition
>to the regular liquor licence. In order to get the BYO they have to
>have a corking machine so you can take the leftover wine. You cannot
>take partial bottles away from regular licenced places.
>

at some beach places in maryland (mostly larger crab houses), they had
b.y.o. because most of the serving staff was underage and thus
couldn't serve alcohol.

your pal,
blake