I was watching a program on T.V. and it was mentioned that putting warm
chicken into the refrigerator will result in the outside cooling while the
interior will actually create bacteria faster than if the chicken were
allowed to cool to room temperature before putting it into the refrigerator.

I always thought one should NOT allow the chicken to cool to room temp
before putting it into the refrigerator.

" > wrote in message
...
>I was watching a program on T.V. and it was mentioned that putting warm
>chicken into the refrigerator will result in the outside cooling while the
>interior will actually create bacteria faster than if the chicken were
>allowed to cool to room temperature before putting it into the
>refrigerator.

Obviously, the chicken will not cool evenly, but "create bacteria faster"?
Doesn't make sense to me. Sit down, eat dinner. By the time you're done
eating, the chicken you didn't eat should be cool enough to put in the
fridge without any concerns about it raising the temp in the fridge.


> I always thought one should NOT allow the chicken to cool to room temp
> before putting it into the refrigerator.

There's a difference between chicken straight from the oven, chicken at baby
bottle temperature, and chicken at room temperature. Use common sense.

My son used to work in a restaurant, and after they baked chicken pieces
which were to be made into chicken salad, they spread the pieces on metal
baking sheets and put it in the freezer for a half hour. That took the temp
down past the "warm" zone very quickly. Then, they'd transfer it to the
refrigerator if they weren't going to make the salad right away.

wrote:
> I was watching a program on T.V. and it was mentioned that putting warm
> chicken into the refrigerator will result in the outside cooling while the
> interior will actually create bacteria faster than if the chicken were
> allowed to cool to room temperature before putting it into the refrigerator.
>
> I always thought one should NOT allow the chicken to cool to room temp
> before putting it into the refrigerator.


A lot depends on the size and cooling power of the refrigerator. The
general rule is that no part of chicken should be in the danger zone for
longer than an hour. The trick is to figure out how to cool the chicken
as quickly as possible.


With most home refrigerators, that means sticking it in the fridge. The
fridge is large; the chicken is small; the fridge will cool it quickly.


Now let's change the variables. Let's say you're dealing with one of
those tiny fridges often seen in dorm rooms and offices. Let's say
you're putting in enough hot chicken to fill it completely. Let's say
the cooling mechanism isn't the best. In that case, putting in hot
chicken would be the worst thing. It could be hours before the fridge
is able to cool it, and everything else in there would be hot as well.


In those circumstances, one smart possibility is to buy a bag of ice or
to make ice ahead of time. You use the ice to cool the chicken, or you
put the ice in the fridge along with the chicken. Everything stays
cold, and the fridge doesn't have to work so hard.


--Lia

wrote:
> I was watching a program on T.V. and it was mentioned that putting
> warm chicken into the refrigerator will result in the outside cooling
> while the interior will actually create bacteria faster than if the
> chicken were allowed to cool to room temperature before putting it
> into the refrigerator.
> I always thought one should NOT allow the chicken to cool to room temp
> before putting it into the refrigerator.
I never cover warm food that I put into the fridge until the food is
thoroughly cooled. No covering also means no condensation on the dish.
Janet

Sqwertz > wrote:

>Always put food in the refrigerator as soon as possible - no
>matter how hot it is. This is what all food safety
>courses/guidelines will tell you, and what health departments
>enforce at restaurants.

Restaurant refrigerators have a lot more thermal mass than
a home refrigerator so the answer may not be the same in both
cases.

I've read that food which has been cooked in a pot (soup,
stew, chili) should be uncovered for a short while, then
covered and placed in the refrigerator. To me, this makes
sense -- you don't want uncovered food in your refrigerator,
nor do you want to place something so hot in there it
will warm up everything. A typical pot of food will cool
substantially if left uncovered for 30 minutes, and this is
considerably less time than the 2 hour limit for leaving
something at room temp.

The worst thing to do, I think, is to take it off the heat
and just leave it covered. Then it spends a lot of time
ramping through near-room-temperature.

Steve

Steve Pope wrote:
> Sqwertz > wrote:
>
>> Always put food in the refrigerator as soon as possible - no
>> matter how hot it is. This is what all food safety
>> courses/guidelines will tell you, and what health departments
>> enforce at restaurants.
>
> Restaurant refrigerators have a lot more thermal mass than
> a home refrigerator so the answer may not be the same in both
> cases.
>
> I've read that food which has been cooked in a pot (soup,
> stew, chili) should be uncovered for a short while, then
> covered and placed in the refrigerator. To me, this makes
> sense -- you don't want uncovered food in your refrigerator,
snip
> Steve
I've read that you should place the food in the refrigerator uncovered as
the resulting condensation promotes bacterial growth. Two differeing pieces
of advice.
Janet

Janet Bostwick > wrote:

> I've read that you should place the food in the refrigerator
> uncovered as the resulting condensation promotes bacterial growth.

I'd like to hear the logic on why consdensation promotes bacterial
growth. (Not saying it doesn't, just that I don't see the connection.)

Steve

Steve Pope wrote:
> Janet Bostwick > wrote:
>
>> I've read that you should place the food in the refrigerator
>> uncovered as the resulting condensation promotes bacterial growth.
>
> I'd like to hear the logic on why consdensation promotes bacterial
> growth. (Not saying it doesn't, just that I don't see the
> connection.)
>
> Steve
I can't give you a cite as it was quite a few years ago that I read that.
Janet

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
> Steve Pope wrote:
>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>
>>> Always put food in the refrigerator as soon as possible - no
>>> matter how hot it is. This is what all food safety
>>> courses/guidelines will tell you, and what health departments
>>> enforce at restaurants.
>>
>> Restaurant refrigerators have a lot more thermal mass than
>> a home refrigerator so the answer may not be the same in both
>> cases.
>>
>> I've read that food which has been cooked in a pot (soup,
>> stew, chili) should be uncovered for a short while, then
>> covered and placed in the refrigerator. To me, this makes
>> sense -- you don't want uncovered food in your refrigerator,
> snip
>> Steve


> I've read that you should place the food in the refrigerator uncovered as
> the resulting condensation promotes bacterial growth. Two differeing
> pieces of advice.
> Janet


I was watching Ramsay's Priori last night where he gave advice such as what
Janet said she had read.

I agree with her information, but I don't expect her to back this up with
links to 'myths and facts,' etc. Nor will I. LOL.
Dee Dee

Sqwertz > wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:51:20 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

>> I've read that food which has been cooked in a pot (soup,
>> stew, chili) should be uncovered for a short while, then
>> covered and placed in the refrigerator.

>From The USDA:
>
>Leftovers
> * Discard any food left out at room temperature for more than
>2 hours (1 hour if the temperature was above 90 °F).
> * Place food into shallow containers and immediately put in
>the refrigerator or freezer for rapid cooling.
> * Use cooked leftovers within 4 days.

So, removing from heat and uncovering for 30 minutes before
placing in the refrigerator is consistent with USDA recommendations.

Steve

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:51:20 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:
>
>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>
>>>Always put food in the refrigerator as soon as possible - no
>>>matter how hot it is. This is what all food safety
>>>courses/guidelines will tell you, and what health departments
>>>enforce at restaurants.
>>
>> Restaurant refrigerators have a lot more thermal mass than
>> a home refrigerator so the answer may not be the same in both
>> cases.
>>
>> I've read that food which has been cooked in a pot (soup,
>> stew, chili) should be uncovered for a short while, then
>> covered and placed in the refrigerator. To me, this makes
>> sense -- you don't want uncovered food in your refrigerator,
>> nor do you want to place something so hot in there it
>> will warm up everything. A typical pot of food will cool
>> substantially if left uncovered for 30 minutes, and this is
>> considerably less time than the 2 hour limit for leaving
>> something at room temp.
>
> From The USDA:
>
> Leftovers
> * Discard any food left out at room temperature for more than
> 2 hours (1 hour if the temperature was above 90 °F).


Based on that rule, I should've died a thousand deaths by now. :-)

Sqwertz > wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:45:26 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:51:20 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:
>>
>>>> I've read that food which has been cooked in a pot (soup,
>>>> stew, chili) should be uncovered for a short while, then
>>>> covered and placed in the refrigerator.
>>
>>>From The USDA:
>>>
>>>Leftovers
>>> * Discard any food left out at room temperature for more than
>>>2 hours (1 hour if the temperature was above 90 °F).
>>> * Place food into shallow containers and immediately put in
>>>the refrigerator or freezer for rapid cooling.
>>> * Use cooked leftovers within 4 days.

>> So, removing from heat and uncovering for 30 minutes before
>> placing in the refrigerator is consistent with USDA recommendations.

>Not sure how you got that unless you consider 30 minutes
>"immediately".

By reading the above? 30 minutes is less than 1 hour.

>The less time food stays between 40F and 140F the better. It's
>that simple.

It's not that simple if a large amount of hot food is placed
in a small refrigerator, warming up some of its contents into
the danger zone.

Steve

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message

>> Leftovers
>> * Discard any food left out at room temperature for more than
>> 2 hours (1 hour if the temperature was above 90 °F).
>
>
> Based on that rule, I should've died a thousand deaths by now. :-)
>
No kidding. I've often heard told that down south previous generations
would put out a spread for Sunday dinner at noon and cover it with a
cloth. Then as the day progressed anyone could go back and forth for
food and that was often the supper meal too. I don't recall hearing of
resultant illness or deaths being attributed to this practice....<shrug>

I'm all for food safety, what I'm not is neurotic or paranoid. What
happened to using common sense? I mean seriously, we used to pack
sandwiches in lunch bags and they'd sit <gasp!> in our desks for hours
until lunch. Now everyone is worried about having blue ice packs and
insulated lunch bags to carry that bologna sandwich in.

Goomba38 > wrote:

>I've often heard told that down south previous generations
>would put out a spread for Sunday dinner at noon and cover it with a
>cloth. Then as the day progressed anyone could go back and forth for
>food and that was often the supper meal too. I don't recall hearing of
>resultant illness or deaths being attributed to this practice

During "previous generations" there were far fewer pathogens in the
food because factory-meat and factory-chicken had not yet been
developed. Plus, since antibiotics were not applied to farm
animals, the pathogens that were there were not "superbugs".

Basically food ingredients are now less wholesome so what
was safe practice in the past is no longer safe.

Steve

Sqwertz > wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:06:33 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:

>> 30 minutes is less than 1 hour.

>If you read between the lines 30 minutes is not as safe as
>putting it in the fridge immediately.

True, but still within the guidelines.

>Between 1-2 hours is
>really bad. 30 minutes would be a compromise between good and
>evil.

>>>The less time food stays between 40F and 140F the better. It's
>>>that simple.

>> It's not that simple if a large amount of hot food is placed
>> in a small refrigerator, warming up some of its contents into
>> the danger zone.

>The refrigerator will turn on and maintain a cold atmosphere
>without the hot food affecting the already cold food.

I have trouble believing this is always true, particularly
if you put a large batch of hot food in a small home refrigerator,
and do this several times a week. Things that are in the
refrigerator long term, like condiments, are probably becoming
less safe if you do this.

>If we're talking about 10 gallons of soup, I'd leave it on the
>stove with the *lid on* until it cools some.

My intuition, and also what I have read, is that lid-on slows
cooling therefore the food spends more total time in the danger zone.

Steve

Steve Pope wrote:


> During "previous generations" there were far fewer pathogens in the
> food because factory-meat and factory-chicken had not yet been
> developed.

We're talking about cooked food, not raw. The food should have no
existing pathogens left.




Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

Steve Pope wrote:

> During "previous generations" there were far fewer pathogens in the
> food because factory-meat and factory-chicken had not yet been
> developed. Plus, since antibiotics were not applied to farm
> animals, the pathogens that were there were not "superbugs".
>
> Basically food ingredients are now less wholesome so what
> was safe practice in the past is no longer safe.
>
> Steve

I disagree that there were any fewer pathogens (other than the drug
resistant ones, which aren't commonly an issue with food anyway).
Perhaps there were more problems because the common house might be
killing, cooking and eating their own animals rather than being killed
and prepped by an experienced meat handler. And refrigeration wasn't so
common in my grandparents early days. Yet they survived many things we
cringe about now.

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:31:08 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:
>
>> My intuition, and also what I have read, is that lid-on slows
>> cooling therefore the food spends more total time in the danger zone.
>
> But unless you're in a cleanroom, there are all sorts of airborne
> bacteria that can get in there with the lid off. If you leave
> the lid on, the foods inside is already sterilized where there
> are no bacteria to introduce and multiply.
>
> Had that same pot of soup been in my mother garage without the
> lid off for 6 months, it would have been discovered after a few
> days. But with the lid on, there was very little deterioration.
>
> -sw


Did you eat any of that soup from the garage? And, what kind of soup was it?

Goomba38 wrote:
>
>> Based on that rule, I should've died a thousand deaths by now. :-)
>
> No kidding. I've often heard told that down south previous generations
> would put out a spread for Sunday dinner at noon and cover it with a
> cloth. Then as the day progressed anyone could go back and forth for
> food and that was often the supper meal too. I don't recall hearing of
> resultant illness or deaths being attributed to this practice....<shrug>
>
> I'm all for food safety, what I'm not is neurotic or paranoid. What
> happened to using common sense? I mean seriously, we used to pack
> sandwiches in lunch bags and they'd sit <gasp!> in our desks for hours
> until lunch. Now everyone is worried about having blue ice packs and
> insulated lunch bags to carry that bologna sandwich in.


An analogy to that logic might be "I've driven on the highway thousands
of times without a seatbelt and have never been in an accident once, and
we never wore seatbelts when I was a kid. If seatbelts are that
important, why aren't I dead? They're stupid, and I don't need one."


Granted, people won't get sick and die every time they eat food that's
been left in the danger zone too long, but wouldn't one time be enough
to convince people that general rules of food safety are important?
Things like keeping hot food hot and cold food cold?


I remember taking my lunch to school and leaving it without
refrigeration until lunch time. Lunch was always items that didn't
require refrigeration-- peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, cookies, an
apple, carrot sticks. If someone wanted something that needed to be
kept hot like soup, they used a thermos. For cold items, they used bags
of ice. And this was back in the 60s.


--Lia

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

> Obviously, the chicken will not cool evenly, but "create bacteria faster"?
> Doesn't make sense to me. Sit down, eat dinner. By the time you're done
> eating, the chicken you didn't eat should be cool enough to put in the
> fridge without any concerns about it raising the temp in the fridge.

It doesn't make sense to me either. I thought that the problem with meat was
that nether region between hot and cold where the bacteria thrive. The laws of
thermodynamics would suggest that a piece of meat shoved into the fridge will
cool down faster than one left on the counter. The inside is not going to cool
down slower because it is in the fridge. On the contrary, the cooler the the
outside is, the cooler the inside will be.


>
>
> > I always thought one should NOT allow the chicken to cool to room temp
> > before putting it into the refrigerator.
>
> There's a difference between chicken straight from the oven, chicken at baby
> bottle temperature, and chicken at room temperature. Use common sense.

It causes a little wear and tear on the fridge to put hot things into it. When I
weigh the wear and tear on my fridge form cooling hot food to the wear and tear
on my system from bad food, to hell with the fridge. I am worth more (to me).

On Feb 11, 12:51 pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> Sqwertz > wrote:
> >Always put food in the refrigerator as soon as possible - no
> >matter how hot it is. This is what all food safety
> >courses/guidelines will tell you, and what health departments
> >enforce at restaurants.
>
> Restaurant refrigerators have a lot more thermal mass than
> a home refrigerator so the answer may not be the same in both
> cases.
>
> I've read that food which has been cooked in a pot (soup,
> stew, chili) should be uncovered for a short while, then
> covered and placed in the refrigerator. To me, this makes
> sense -- you don't want uncovered food in your refrigerator,
> nor do you want to place something so hot in there it
> will warm up everything. A typical pot of food will cool
> substantially if left uncovered for 30 minutes, and this is
> considerably less time than the 2 hour limit for leaving
> something at room temp.
>
> The worst thing to do, I think, is to take it off the heat
> and just leave it covered. Then it spends a lot of time
> ramping through near-room-temperature.

But if you have it at the boiling point, which kills all the bacteria,
then turn the heat off and leave it covered, how the heck are bacteria
going to get into the covered pot to set up a breeding program? If I
make a big pot of soup, I return it to boiling, cover it and simmer a
few minutes, then turn it off and leave it out all night to cool,
putting it into the fridge in the morning. Again, how are bacteria
going to even get in?
>
> Steve

--Bryan
np: Mott the Hoople - All the Young Dudes

Dave Smith wrote:
SNIP
>
> It causes a little wear and tear on the fridge to put hot things into
> it. When I weigh the wear and tear on my fridge form cooling hot food
> to the wear and tear on my system from bad food, to hell with the
> fridge. I am worth more (to me).
Isn't that the reason that we get refrigerators? To cool food to keep it
safe to eat?
Janet

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:03:29 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> wrote:

>"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...

>> From The USDA:
>>
>> Leftovers
>> * Discard any food left out at room temperature for more than
>> 2 hours (1 hour if the temperature was above 90 °F).
>
>
>Based on that rule, I should've died a thousand deaths by now. :-)
>

i'd hate to see what their sex guidelines would be like.

your pal,
blake

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:31:13 -0600, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:03:29 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> From The USDA:
>>>
>>> Leftovers
>>> * Discard any food left out at room temperature for more than
>>> 2 hours (1 hour if the temperature was above 90 °F).
>>
>> Based on that rule, I should've died a thousand deaths by now. :-)
>
>I've conditioned my body to survive all sorts of things. Heck, I
>used to swim in New York's East River daily.
>http://i25.tinypic.com/14tbsic.jpg
>

i remember once as a kid the doctor looking in my ear and saying
'where you been swimming, boy?'

your pal,
blake

"Bobo Bonobo®" > wrote in message
...
> On Feb 11, 12:51 pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>> >Always put food in the refrigerator as soon as possible - no
>> >matter how hot it is. This is what all food safety
>> >courses/guidelines will tell you, and what health departments
>> >enforce at restaurants.
>>
>> Restaurant refrigerators have a lot more thermal mass than
>> a home refrigerator so the answer may not be the same in both
>> cases.
>>
>> I've read that food which has been cooked in a pot (soup,
>> stew, chili) should be uncovered for a short while, then
>> covered and placed in the refrigerator. To me, this makes
>> sense -- you don't want uncovered food in your refrigerator,
>> nor do you want to place something so hot in there it
>> will warm up everything. A typical pot of food will cool
>> substantially if left uncovered for 30 minutes, and this is
>> considerably less time than the 2 hour limit for leaving
>> something at room temp.
>>
>> The worst thing to do, I think, is to take it off the heat
>> and just leave it covered. Then it spends a lot of time
>> ramping through near-room-temperature.
>
> But if you have it at the boiling point, which kills all the bacteria,
> then turn the heat off and leave it covered, how the heck are bacteria
> going to get into the covered pot to set up a breeding program? If I
> make a big pot of soup, I return it to boiling, cover it and simmer a
> few minutes, then turn it off and leave it out all night to cool,
> putting it into the fridge in the morning. Again, how are bacteria
> going to even get in?
>>
>> Steve
>
> --Bryan
> np: Mott the Hoople - All the Young Dudes

How about between boiling and covering it?

On Feb 12, 2:07 pm, " > wrote:
> "Bobo Bonobo®" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On Feb 11, 12:51 pm, (Steve Pope) wrote:
> >> Sqwertz > wrote:
> >> >Always put food in the refrigerator as soon as possible - no
> >> >matter how hot it is. This is what all food safety
> >> >courses/guidelines will tell you, and what health departments
> >> >enforce at restaurants.
>
> >> Restaurant refrigerators have a lot more thermal mass than
> >> a home refrigerator so the answer may not be the same in both
> >> cases.
>
> >> I've read that food which has been cooked in a pot (soup,
> >> stew, chili) should be uncovered for a short while, then
> >> covered and placed in the refrigerator. To me, this makes
> >> sense -- you don't want uncovered food in your refrigerator,
> >> nor do you want to place something so hot in there it
> >> will warm up everything. A typical pot of food will cool
> >> substantially if left uncovered for 30 minutes, and this is
> >> considerably less time than the 2 hour limit for leaving
> >> something at room temp.
>
> >> The worst thing to do, I think, is to take it off the heat
> >> and just leave it covered. Then it spends a lot of time
> >> ramping through near-room-temperature.
>
> > But if you have it at the boiling point, which kills all the bacteria,
> > then turn the heat off and leave it covered, how the heck are bacteria
> > going to get into the covered pot to set up a breeding program? If I
> > make a big pot of soup, I return it to boiling, cover it and simmer a
> > few minutes, then turn it off and leave it out all night to cool,
> > putting it into the fridge in the morning. Again, how are bacteria
> > going to even get in?
>
> >> Steve
>
> > --Bryan
> > np: Mott the Hoople - All the Young Dudes
>
> How about between boiling and covering it?

After covering it, you continue to simmer for however long. Of
course, you might not want to "do as I do." I leave pizza out
overnight, and eat it in the morning. Same with fried chicken,
meatballs in red sauce, and various other things. I've never gotten
sick from doing it.

--Bryan

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:51:20 +0000 (UTC), Steve Pope wrote:
>>
>>> Sqwertz > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Always put food in the refrigerator as soon as possible - no
>>>> matter how hot it is. This is what all food safety
>>>> courses/guidelines will tell you, and what health departments
>>>> enforce at restaurants.
>>> Restaurant refrigerators have a lot more thermal mass than
>>> a home refrigerator so the answer may not be the same in both
>>> cases.
>>>
>>> I've read that food which has been cooked in a pot (soup,
>>> stew, chili) should be uncovered for a short while, then
>>> covered and placed in the refrigerator. To me, this makes
>>> sense -- you don't want uncovered food in your refrigerator,
>>> nor do you want to place something so hot in there it
>>> will warm up everything. A typical pot of food will cool
>>> substantially if left uncovered for 30 minutes, and this is
>>> considerably less time than the 2 hour limit for leaving
>>> something at room temp.
>> From The USDA:
>>
>> Leftovers
>> * Discard any food left out at room temperature for more than
>> 2 hours (1 hour if the temperature was above 90 °F).
>
>
> Based on that rule, I should've died a thousand deaths by now. :-)
>
>
I think I read that as 2 days. Two hours is ridiculous This advice is
certainly a crock. Maybe it would apply to something like a home-make
mayonnaise.



--
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Goomba38 wrote:
>>
>>> Based on that rule, I should've died a thousand deaths by now. :-)
>>
>> No kidding. I've often heard told that down south previous generations
>> would put out a spread for Sunday dinner at noon and cover it with a
>> cloth. Then as the day progressed anyone could go back and forth for
>> food and that was often the supper meal too. I don't recall hearing of
>> resultant illness or deaths being attributed to this practice....<shrug>
>>
>> I'm all for food safety, what I'm not is neurotic or paranoid. What
>> happened to using common sense? I mean seriously, we used to pack
>> sandwiches in lunch bags and they'd sit <gasp!> in our desks for hours
>> until lunch. Now everyone is worried about having blue ice packs and
>> insulated lunch bags to carry that bologna sandwich in.
>
>
> An analogy to that logic might be "I've driven on the highway thousands
> of times without a seatbelt and have never been in an accident once, and
> we never wore seatbelts when I was a kid. If seatbelts are that
> important, why aren't I dead? They're stupid, and I don't need one."
>
>
> Granted, people won't get sick and die every time they eat food that's
> been left in the danger zone too long, but wouldn't one time be enough
> to convince people that general rules of food safety are important?
> Things like keeping hot food hot and cold food cold?
>
>
> I remember taking my lunch to school and leaving it without
> refrigeration until lunch time. Lunch was always items that didn't
> require refrigeration-- peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, cookies, an
> apple, carrot sticks. If someone wanted something that needed to be
> kept hot like soup, they used a thermos. For cold items, they used bags
> of ice. And this was back in the 60s.
>
>
> --Lia
>
I remember taking my lunch to school in the 1050's and this included egg
salad and other items with mayonnaise. No refrigeration no sickness.
Say four and a half hours from time made til eaten. However this was
always in cool weather. We don't get 35C+ days often during the school
year. Ice was never considered.

--
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada